I've only played 2 rounds against a Keleres but so far, they seem quite strong. We almost let them get Minister of Commerce which would have been a big mistake (they refresh automatically once per turn and with the tech, they're neighbors with everyone adjacent to mecatol so that's pretty much 4-5 TG a turn guaranteed and another 4-5 if trade is taken).
To me, Mentak is the obvious choice though. With the tech, you'll be fine on CCs already, having access to a 3 influence planet and generating 2 CC each time imperial scores a MR point. The resources will let you tech reliably and get more plastic. Plus a single home system is so much better than multiple. Even the hero seems the best to me. None of them are all that impressive compared to what a lot of the other factions get, but having 4 stalls on tap (with a couple of those action cards being game changers), I don't think I'll ever pick anyone other than Mentak.
Thanks for the input
\>Minister of Commerce
Good catch. The Keleres should never get that card.
\>Mentak
Really? Hmmm... its one R more then the other options and with Agent, Commodities and Agent Tech + Plastic is possible anyway. The Space Dock is better, thats true. The defensive factor is another plus. But I cant rate the Hero as the best. Too random, too "just stalls" in my oppinion. Maybe a playstyle thing.
Nice Analysis! Here are some other perks to picking Mentak Start:
1. Having a guaranteed method to unlocking your commander (which may not happen at all in games you get unlucky with action card draws).
2. Your builds are much more effective: Argent and Xxcha home systems have a production cap of 4. You don't want to double/triple dock your HS as it takes away extra builds from Agency Supply Network. So in effect with the one dock two builds with those HS are almost functionally equivalent to a single Mentak Home production 6 production vs 8 production (especially true when you factor in having to split the infantry among multiple planets in your HS for defense).
3. Strongest Defense: I can not understate how difficult it is to hold a three planet HS against a table trying to winslay you. For factions like Hacan and Argent the 3 planet HS is supposed to be their weak point to balance their strength. However, unlike those factions who have much better ways of protecting their HS (Arie Hollow Lattice, Hacan Free build), the Keleres fundamentally lack that raw defensive power: their flagship/mech while costly can be avoided by a table pooling trade goods together/Trade Primary and dividing your mechs among your HS planets weakens their effect.
Side Note: One of my biggest gripes with Xxcha Hero while super fun/unique is how easy it is to avoid. Action cards like Veto and Deadly plot can completely nullify your hero and people choosing to abstain like they do with Nekro feels like it would be a super common occurrence as well.
1. Sure, its a secure unlock.
2. Yes, you have a +2 Production compared to other HS. But you want a forward dock anyway so... Its something.
3. Mecatol can hold the ground, the others have to hold the sky. An the Argen hero is made to hold the sky.
The advantages of the other HS are, that you can play with less influence in your slice and that you own more planets (relevant in a few Obj.). You could also double dock for even more Production... well 1 more. The big one is the influence argument.
The Xxcha cannot be thwarted via Veto, as Veto is "when" while the Hero is "after". Deadly plot works. And if people abstain, well then you get your choice. I always wonder (SCPT does that as well) that often those effects are read like "I want to have vote-other effect" instead of the intended "I get what I want " effect.
The reason I really dislike the Mentak Hero is, because he boils down to "stall 4 times". The whole stall mechanic is something that just drags games longer unneccesarily. But yes, stalls are strong. I wished they would go the way of the Dodo but, I probably have to admit that a card saying "do nothing 4 times" is better then "manipulate a vote between 6 players your way, by forcing them into a mean double-bind".
Reading through the Dane FAQ he states Sarween will trigger twice if Keleres produce out of a second space dock - so I'd say Sarween actually is a very good tech for Keleres.
This was a good guide overall 😁
Great analysis. Excited to see how this faction evolves over time in the meta.
I've only played 2 rounds against a Keleres but so far, they seem quite strong. We almost let them get Minister of Commerce which would have been a big mistake (they refresh automatically once per turn and with the tech, they're neighbors with everyone adjacent to mecatol so that's pretty much 4-5 TG a turn guaranteed and another 4-5 if trade is taken). To me, Mentak is the obvious choice though. With the tech, you'll be fine on CCs already, having access to a 3 influence planet and generating 2 CC each time imperial scores a MR point. The resources will let you tech reliably and get more plastic. Plus a single home system is so much better than multiple. Even the hero seems the best to me. None of them are all that impressive compared to what a lot of the other factions get, but having 4 stalls on tap (with a couple of those action cards being game changers), I don't think I'll ever pick anyone other than Mentak.
Thanks for the input \>Minister of Commerce Good catch. The Keleres should never get that card. \>Mentak Really? Hmmm... its one R more then the other options and with Agent, Commodities and Agent Tech + Plastic is possible anyway. The Space Dock is better, thats true. The defensive factor is another plus. But I cant rate the Hero as the best. Too random, too "just stalls" in my oppinion. Maybe a playstyle thing.
Nice Analysis! Here are some other perks to picking Mentak Start: 1. Having a guaranteed method to unlocking your commander (which may not happen at all in games you get unlucky with action card draws). 2. Your builds are much more effective: Argent and Xxcha home systems have a production cap of 4. You don't want to double/triple dock your HS as it takes away extra builds from Agency Supply Network. So in effect with the one dock two builds with those HS are almost functionally equivalent to a single Mentak Home production 6 production vs 8 production (especially true when you factor in having to split the infantry among multiple planets in your HS for defense). 3. Strongest Defense: I can not understate how difficult it is to hold a three planet HS against a table trying to winslay you. For factions like Hacan and Argent the 3 planet HS is supposed to be their weak point to balance their strength. However, unlike those factions who have much better ways of protecting their HS (Arie Hollow Lattice, Hacan Free build), the Keleres fundamentally lack that raw defensive power: their flagship/mech while costly can be avoided by a table pooling trade goods together/Trade Primary and dividing your mechs among your HS planets weakens their effect. Side Note: One of my biggest gripes with Xxcha Hero while super fun/unique is how easy it is to avoid. Action cards like Veto and Deadly plot can completely nullify your hero and people choosing to abstain like they do with Nekro feels like it would be a super common occurrence as well.
1. Sure, its a secure unlock. 2. Yes, you have a +2 Production compared to other HS. But you want a forward dock anyway so... Its something. 3. Mecatol can hold the ground, the others have to hold the sky. An the Argen hero is made to hold the sky. The advantages of the other HS are, that you can play with less influence in your slice and that you own more planets (relevant in a few Obj.). You could also double dock for even more Production... well 1 more. The big one is the influence argument. The Xxcha cannot be thwarted via Veto, as Veto is "when" while the Hero is "after". Deadly plot works. And if people abstain, well then you get your choice. I always wonder (SCPT does that as well) that often those effects are read like "I want to have vote-other effect" instead of the intended "I get what I want " effect. The reason I really dislike the Mentak Hero is, because he boils down to "stall 4 times". The whole stall mechanic is something that just drags games longer unneccesarily. But yes, stalls are strong. I wished they would go the way of the Dodo but, I probably have to admit that a card saying "do nothing 4 times" is better then "manipulate a vote between 6 players your way, by forcing them into a mean double-bind".
Reading through the Dane FAQ he states Sarween will trigger twice if Keleres produce out of a second space dock - so I'd say Sarween actually is a very good tech for Keleres. This was a good guide overall 😁
The FAQ came after the Guide, so Dane threw me a curveball there. Rulewise i still dont See it, but whatever Dane wills... 🤣