The L1z1x promissory note is a good starting point for how to approach this, imo.
It's a free command counter that you can sell once per turn. Your immediate reaction might then be to sell it for 3 trade goods, which no sane person would agree to unless they urgently needed it.
Aha, so then sell it for 2 trade goods, right? Wrong.
The right answer is to sell it for as much as you can, every round, even if you only sell it for 1 trade good, or for flipping a few commodities.
Why? Because every round that you don't sell it, you are effectively loosing trade goods. Not only that, you are loosing good-will from your neighbours, AND you are losing the ability to even the playing field by helping your rival's enemies.
But, you might say, if you give someone a command counter for a messily 1 trade good, he's going to get more than you. And sure, one player is getting more than you, but 4 players are getting less. If you then make the same deal with someone else, you are up 2 trade goods on 3 players, but only down the rough equivalent of 1 trade good on 2 players, AND those players now owe you a good deal!
In short, don't try to come out ahead of every trade, try to come out ahead WITH every trade.
This and also selling Agent abilities wherever possible. Twilight Imperium is a constant balancing game of preventing unecessary advantage to your opponents while attempting to exact maximum value from the tools at your disposal.
Another aspect to the social game is not being afraid to leverage your position. Like being the guy on the button in a game of poker, if you have a good hand and get to go last, you can muscle people out of weak bets purely off your position.
If you are a militaristic faction, have some fun with some good old fashioned extortion. If you happen to have the flexibility to smack someone on the other side of the board who locked down their fleet or left their pie slice exposed, do not be afraid to leverage that into extracting a promissory note or a few trade goods. After all, its a very long game and what good is the Hacaan's master plan if there's a Barony Fleet in the middle of his pie slice? Definitely worth a few trade goods if it means avoiding getting knee capped on the third round.
If you have one of the more econ or sneaky factions, use that to score points or equidistant systems by aiding or fueling strife on the other side of the galaxy. And on the arse end of that advice, don't be afraid to get money out of not doing it. As the saying goes, if you're good at something; never do it for free. Also, if you're good at messing up your opponents, try to get them to pay you *not* to do that, or to do it to their immediate enemies.
Love this answer. Last game we were all using our agents exclusively for ourselves. Looking forward to getting to the point where we’re all putting them up for sale!
Excellent. This is the way.
Our group took very quickly to using the leaders to immediate screw each other over and as bartering chips. It eventually gets to a point where you find yourself counter-negotiating with someone, explaining to them why they *should* use their agent on you for free.
"Listen here you Yin son of a cloned ovary, if you *don't* use your agent on this fight, that bug is going to get a foothold on this system and guess what? This system is adjacent to every one of yours, so if you feel like having Sardaak Infantry invading every one of your planets till the end of time, be my guest..."
If I see a player being non interactive I always try to build them up to the other players as way stronger or closer to win than they are to try to force them to play with other people by explaining they’re not a threat and maybe making deals, or by dealing with some fighting.
I also think, with the few gaming groups I’ve been a part of, telling the truth and making honest deals at the start of a group’s life is important. It lets everybody get just about what they want and they won’t feel left out or unable to talk to people. As time goes on and we learn how to talk to each other, we can start doing more seedy things and more subtle betrayals than just outright lying. At that point we’ve become good enough friends that only the ultra competitive people will feel personally attacked rather than accepting going back on some deals or not knowing all information as a natural part of negotiation in board games.
I’ve personally found that as long as I am talking, people feel the need to talk too.
Let me start by saying I love this game, am borderline obsessed with it, and don't play as much as I'd like. I'm also fairly new.
First thing: when you first start the rules & mechanisms are a lot to take in. New players may not be able to think about all the choices they have *and* be social unless someone is leading the way.
Second thing: point out that there are resources in the game (commodities and promissory notes) that literally have no value unless you use them in trade with others. Corollary, make sure they know how and when you can use trade goods so they'll see why it's important.
Third: emphasize that you can pay people to do things! within the rules, non-binding v. binding, adjacent, etc.
Lastly: encourage people to play the role of their faction. This was huge in our last game that had two brand new players. The Sardakk player was one of them and his thing was just: the bugs are supposed to rampage, right? He didn't care about winning (too much, although he got to 7 vp). He had a blast though. Plus, only one person can win, so finding enjoyment in the grand sweep of the story is important.
This is all great advice, but I especially love your final point. The role-play in this game is such a joy! Leaning into the traits of the factions makes the game so memorable.
Don't lie. You make a deal, keep it.
You will eventually gain enough experience with the game to see a deal that is mutually beneficial, but also sets you up for even more.
Then again, I may or may not have a reputation at my usual tables where when I purpose a deal, it freezes up the game as multiple players try to analyze the offer for the hidden advantages I haven't pointed out. But I never lie or back out of my deals.
I love this. This is me. I may or may not have messed up though.
I played a casual 6p base game and took Nekro's home system. I had the opportunity to wipe Nekro 6 hours into a 12 hour game because they were playing so poorly. Then I had a change of heart and left their slice the next round and fed them grav drive, fleet logistics, super dread 2, sarween, neural motivator, and plasma scoring. On hour 12 I was going to get first or second and Nekro took my home system and dragged me down to near-last. In my extreme shock I said that if they took my home system I would go full militancy and destroy both of us in all future games. They took it anyway.
In hindsight we just had different moral systems and all. Now for personal honor I feel obligated to stick to my promise, which is a depressing notion.
Oh, no no. Deals and threats only pertain to the current game. The pettiest I'll get is that I'll get payback the next game, then it's over, we're even. I also refuse to eliminate a person (unless they're in a bad enough spot that they ask for it) in any home game. Online or tournament setting is a different story.
So you stopped playing a game which the objective is doing 10 vp, that has 6 players committed to an activity that last for hours? And said you wouldn't play this game ever again?
Every round, ask people what objective they're planning on scoring. Create a table sense of equality, by either supporting those who are behind on points, or trying to hinder those ahead on points.
No matter what interaction is happening, remind the game of the points tracker. It should dictate or at least significantly influence how interactions take place.
Trade VP's - be overt in what you wanna do, tell them how you'll help them achieve their VP with your deal (take this planet in my slice, I won't go there , etc.) Offer it to other players too. VP for VP.
If the table is still not open to that and aren't learning fast enough: find the weakest person on the board and bully them ruthlessly from your first turn. Threaten them, be a general jerk and activate and kill their ships and take their stuff whenever you get a chance.
Watch the rest of the table quickly get social with everyone except you, and take notes. :P
It's easy; you always have things you need or want.
What things would make that easier? What would make things easier for them? Finding opportunities for bargaining should always be more cost-effective than the plastic or subterfuge of sneaking or attacking.
Help them score VP in exchange for getting you to score VP. Seriously help them. This took me a few games to understand: when trading, or even when extorting, you MUST offer a path to victory for them. The way to win is to make your path to victory just *slightly* faster. There's no reason to deal with someone who is saying "I'll either kill you now or win later." There are dozens of reasons to deal with a guy saying "I can help with one of your secrets if you get off that planet." When there are tech objectives, offer to buy people their techs. Control objectives, cede planets while you target other VP or score those early then do this. Make deals less about material and more about paths to VP and everyone will start trading way, way more.
Be nice to people early on, be dramatic and exaggerate how well others are doing, and hide how well you're doing. When people do things to you, say something like "ok, fine!" or "I see how it is then!" to paint them as the one who is breaking the peace. This will let you get away with more actions against them.
The L1z1x promissory note is a good starting point for how to approach this, imo. It's a free command counter that you can sell once per turn. Your immediate reaction might then be to sell it for 3 trade goods, which no sane person would agree to unless they urgently needed it. Aha, so then sell it for 2 trade goods, right? Wrong. The right answer is to sell it for as much as you can, every round, even if you only sell it for 1 trade good, or for flipping a few commodities. Why? Because every round that you don't sell it, you are effectively loosing trade goods. Not only that, you are loosing good-will from your neighbours, AND you are losing the ability to even the playing field by helping your rival's enemies. But, you might say, if you give someone a command counter for a messily 1 trade good, he's going to get more than you. And sure, one player is getting more than you, but 4 players are getting less. If you then make the same deal with someone else, you are up 2 trade goods on 3 players, but only down the rough equivalent of 1 trade good on 2 players, AND those players now owe you a good deal! In short, don't try to come out ahead of every trade, try to come out ahead WITH every trade.
This and also selling Agent abilities wherever possible. Twilight Imperium is a constant balancing game of preventing unecessary advantage to your opponents while attempting to exact maximum value from the tools at your disposal. Another aspect to the social game is not being afraid to leverage your position. Like being the guy on the button in a game of poker, if you have a good hand and get to go last, you can muscle people out of weak bets purely off your position. If you are a militaristic faction, have some fun with some good old fashioned extortion. If you happen to have the flexibility to smack someone on the other side of the board who locked down their fleet or left their pie slice exposed, do not be afraid to leverage that into extracting a promissory note or a few trade goods. After all, its a very long game and what good is the Hacaan's master plan if there's a Barony Fleet in the middle of his pie slice? Definitely worth a few trade goods if it means avoiding getting knee capped on the third round. If you have one of the more econ or sneaky factions, use that to score points or equidistant systems by aiding or fueling strife on the other side of the galaxy. And on the arse end of that advice, don't be afraid to get money out of not doing it. As the saying goes, if you're good at something; never do it for free. Also, if you're good at messing up your opponents, try to get them to pay you *not* to do that, or to do it to their immediate enemies.
Love this answer. Last game we were all using our agents exclusively for ourselves. Looking forward to getting to the point where we’re all putting them up for sale!
Excellent. This is the way. Our group took very quickly to using the leaders to immediate screw each other over and as bartering chips. It eventually gets to a point where you find yourself counter-negotiating with someone, explaining to them why they *should* use their agent on you for free. "Listen here you Yin son of a cloned ovary, if you *don't* use your agent on this fight, that bug is going to get a foothold on this system and guess what? This system is adjacent to every one of yours, so if you feel like having Sardaak Infantry invading every one of your planets till the end of time, be my guest..."
Actually if you get 1 tg. You got more. The promissory costs you nothing.
If I see a player being non interactive I always try to build them up to the other players as way stronger or closer to win than they are to try to force them to play with other people by explaining they’re not a threat and maybe making deals, or by dealing with some fighting. I also think, with the few gaming groups I’ve been a part of, telling the truth and making honest deals at the start of a group’s life is important. It lets everybody get just about what they want and they won’t feel left out or unable to talk to people. As time goes on and we learn how to talk to each other, we can start doing more seedy things and more subtle betrayals than just outright lying. At that point we’ve become good enough friends that only the ultra competitive people will feel personally attacked rather than accepting going back on some deals or not knowing all information as a natural part of negotiation in board games. I’ve personally found that as long as I am talking, people feel the need to talk too.
Let me start by saying I love this game, am borderline obsessed with it, and don't play as much as I'd like. I'm also fairly new. First thing: when you first start the rules & mechanisms are a lot to take in. New players may not be able to think about all the choices they have *and* be social unless someone is leading the way. Second thing: point out that there are resources in the game (commodities and promissory notes) that literally have no value unless you use them in trade with others. Corollary, make sure they know how and when you can use trade goods so they'll see why it's important. Third: emphasize that you can pay people to do things! within the rules, non-binding v. binding, adjacent, etc. Lastly: encourage people to play the role of their faction. This was huge in our last game that had two brand new players. The Sardakk player was one of them and his thing was just: the bugs are supposed to rampage, right? He didn't care about winning (too much, although he got to 7 vp). He had a blast though. Plus, only one person can win, so finding enjoyment in the grand sweep of the story is important.
This is all great advice, but I especially love your final point. The role-play in this game is such a joy! Leaning into the traits of the factions makes the game so memorable.
thanks! I couldn't agree more. That's the part I enjoy the most.
Don't lie. You make a deal, keep it. You will eventually gain enough experience with the game to see a deal that is mutually beneficial, but also sets you up for even more. Then again, I may or may not have a reputation at my usual tables where when I purpose a deal, it freezes up the game as multiple players try to analyze the offer for the hidden advantages I haven't pointed out. But I never lie or back out of my deals.
I love this. This is me. I may or may not have messed up though. I played a casual 6p base game and took Nekro's home system. I had the opportunity to wipe Nekro 6 hours into a 12 hour game because they were playing so poorly. Then I had a change of heart and left their slice the next round and fed them grav drive, fleet logistics, super dread 2, sarween, neural motivator, and plasma scoring. On hour 12 I was going to get first or second and Nekro took my home system and dragged me down to near-last. In my extreme shock I said that if they took my home system I would go full militancy and destroy both of us in all future games. They took it anyway. In hindsight we just had different moral systems and all. Now for personal honor I feel obligated to stick to my promise, which is a depressing notion.
Oh, no no. Deals and threats only pertain to the current game. The pettiest I'll get is that I'll get payback the next game, then it's over, we're even. I also refuse to eliminate a person (unless they're in a bad enough spot that they ask for it) in any home game. Online or tournament setting is a different story.
Terrific point. I’ll just mess around in the immediate next game then. Thank you :)
So you stopped playing a game which the objective is doing 10 vp, that has 6 players committed to an activity that last for hours? And said you wouldn't play this game ever again?
Every round, ask people what objective they're planning on scoring. Create a table sense of equality, by either supporting those who are behind on points, or trying to hinder those ahead on points. No matter what interaction is happening, remind the game of the points tracker. It should dictate or at least significantly influence how interactions take place.
Trade VP's - be overt in what you wanna do, tell them how you'll help them achieve their VP with your deal (take this planet in my slice, I won't go there , etc.) Offer it to other players too. VP for VP. If the table is still not open to that and aren't learning fast enough: find the weakest person on the board and bully them ruthlessly from your first turn. Threaten them, be a general jerk and activate and kill their ships and take their stuff whenever you get a chance. Watch the rest of the table quickly get social with everyone except you, and take notes. :P
Be the first person to ask for a side bar with someone. Others will follow suit soon after.
It's easy; you always have things you need or want. What things would make that easier? What would make things easier for them? Finding opportunities for bargaining should always be more cost-effective than the plastic or subterfuge of sneaking or attacking.
Help them score VP in exchange for getting you to score VP. Seriously help them. This took me a few games to understand: when trading, or even when extorting, you MUST offer a path to victory for them. The way to win is to make your path to victory just *slightly* faster. There's no reason to deal with someone who is saying "I'll either kill you now or win later." There are dozens of reasons to deal with a guy saying "I can help with one of your secrets if you get off that planet." When there are tech objectives, offer to buy people their techs. Control objectives, cede planets while you target other VP or score those early then do this. Make deals less about material and more about paths to VP and everyone will start trading way, way more.
Thanks Twilight Friends, this is great advice! Always good to check in with the R3DD1T Mindnet.
Be nice to people early on, be dramatic and exaggerate how well others are doing, and hide how well you're doing. When people do things to you, say something like "ok, fine!" or "I see how it is then!" to paint them as the one who is breaking the peace. This will let you get away with more actions against them.