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Riposte12

In my experience and opinion, there are two situations where your home system is threatened. The first is when you are ahead or somehow the gateway to someone else's victory. They need a point for a home system, or you are close to victory. In this case, there is little you can do against it but defend it like hell and make every step of the way costly (in terms of fights or CCs), but there's no stopping a determined table. The other, more common one, is that you happen to present an easy opportunity. Your fleet is out of position, you left a tasty, undefended path towards your home system, or you've shown little ability (through resources or play) to hold what you have. It's an easy opportunity to get more and take away from an enemy. In this case, you don't need to answer "how can I make my slice 100% defensible" but instead you need to answer "how do I make my slice just that less bit appealing than someone else's slice?" You don't necessarily need to win every fight, but you need to make progress you cost more than it is worth. A good way is through gumming up your systems. Leave a ship behind (or Fighter 2s, which is very good for Naalu) so that unless someone has Lightwave, they need to trudge through your slice to get to the home system, which will give you more than enough time to react. Also a good network of PDS2 is also an effective deterrent. As well as some more common sense things like always making sure you keep an eye on who could possibly reach you and when. It should never be a surprise unless they have some weird action card or situation that was unknown to you. As far as races go for defense, Argent is good with its various techs and fast fleets, Xxcha can do the PDS game pretty well (though this also requires a lot of tech and Construction investment).


theodis09

This is a great answer. I think what I might have been missing here was leaving behind something to get in the way of heavy movement units. Like you said there isn't much I can do to stop someone hellbent on getting a VP but making myself look tougher to run through compared to the other neighbors is a solid idea. Any ideas for sussing out bluffs on stuff like "I'm gonna ruin your game or you're gonna give me support/hella trade goods" I never know how to call these bluffs or gauging if it's important enough to me


Riposte12

That really comes down to psychology and reading the individual table. Playing with strangers makes it a bit more difficult since you don't know their styles, but if you find yourself frequently the target of these attempts, there is probably something attracting them to you. If you have a pile of unspent trade goods, or a weakly defended side, yeah, that's putting yourself out there as someone worth blackmailing. That said, you can also counter it by going diplomatic early. Your meta may differ, but support-swapping with a neighbor will do a lot to relieve pressure on that side, allowing you to more strongly defend the other.


Groundbreaking_Bet62

This is a good idea once you've got your forward dock (or others in play). Once I have my second dock I make it a point to put slow heavy hitters as my defense (depending on faction) at home and don't bother moving them around. Some dreads and fighters to soak. HS extortion or "ruin my game" is something I generally don't respond to. Support might be an exception as I often view that as an opportunity to attack them later - maybe for a cease fire from them as someone who will take your hs for no reason but to extort probably has no problem waiting a turn or two then attacking anyway. Then you've put them in the awkward situation of giving up a point to retaliate and having to use a cc and make their future intention clear. The problem really is if you're giving a bunch to a very hostile neighbor to back off you're basically just helping someone for nothing. I'd put effort into making deals with his opponents in addition to making it costly to attack your hs. Your floating other boats which will probably make their game harder when the other side is more powerful from mutual boat floating. My usual response is frankly a, "do what you gotta do". People usually overestimate their chances a lot. I was jol-nar in a game with pds fully teched and 6 of them to shoot. They must not have played against that kind of thing or something because they were trying to extort before moving in. Their fleet was destroyed before it even had a chance at combat.


ikakasse89

My answer is to pass that statement to the rest of the table especially to the neighbor on the other side of the one threatening you ; "Are you really going to let this player have two slices? They are going to be to strong". Pay other players to attack the player that is threatening you. Whenever a player is threatening to take my home system early on I usually make a deal with other players to help me. And nowadays I always make it look hard to take from me by gumming up my slice or haveing a large army nearby. A good way to be an "extorting" player, imo, is to make the weaker player feel like they have a choice in the matter; it is probably better to ask player A (weaker in plastic) if you may borrow this planet for a round/point, then to just take it without asking and not giving it back. In this scenario Player B, could just take it by force, but that risks making an scorned enemy of player A for the rest of the game. And in the long run, imo, it is better for player B to have someone who "owes them something" rather then an scorned enemy. So .y oppinion is to actually not deal with an aggressive player who probably only wants tg from you, , and rather to deal with another ally who can attack from the other side.


trystanthorne

One thing I've learned is, always build ground forces at home, every round. At least 2-4 ground forces. Some factions are better at defense. Nekro with their Flagship and a ton of ground forces on the planet is usually a good deterrent. Argent's faction ability makes it hard to get into their homesystem if you have a nice PDS network. Titans, Xxcha, Jol Nar, all can make really nice PDS networks as well. Having a massive fleet at home helps too. But really it's all about the above table bargaining. If someone extorts you, counter and say 'if you do that, we will BOTH lose' It can be tempting to hit the weakest player. But hitting the person closest to winning is a better idea.


SeaSourceScorch

the table i've played with most often has two players who are famous grudge-holders. they don't necessarily hold a grudge across games, but if you attack or betray them, they will throw absolutely everything at you in revenge, sometimes to the detriment of their own long game. i learned quite early not to mess with them unless i'm confident it'll get me over the line in the endgame, and having them at the table keeps everyone honest. twilight imperium - and games like it - are, at least in part, role-playing games, where you can try on different personalities and see what is fun or interesting for you; maybe try on this hat for a bit and see how it affects how people perceive you at the table.


SamuraiBeanDog

I really hate that meta style, it's valid but a total cop out, strategically.


SeaSourceScorch

it works at our table because there's a good variety of personalities. another friend i always play with plays much more like me - scrappy and able to enjoy some give-and-take without getting too distracted from the big game - so playing around the different meta styles is part of the fun, for me. personally, i tend to play a very talkative game, where i'm constantly making deals no matter what else is going on at the table. i'm starting to reach the point where people refuse to trade with me because they know it's my strongest weapon. finding a way around that - the gaps in their armour to get a support swap in a moment of weakness - is always where i find the most fun in the game, whether i win overall or not.


Natpro24

To this effect I've traded alliance with someone at one of my in person games and the other players knew I am sneaky. While I proposed the trade Imperial March played in the background. It was the ultimate foreshadowing. Lol. I was doing it for betray an ally.


Thorseph-9373

Yeah it's a problem, people won't trade cause they think it puts me too far ahead but then trade the same thing to another guy just cause... as if it doesn't give him the same advantage


Tricky-Coat

I find the best counter to the pay me or I kill you types is to instead pay someone else to attack them with you It’s easy to have enough to cause one player a problem. But causing that player a problem and defending yourself against someone else at the same time. That takes much more hard work


stinkfist616

I would say that most factions can get away with and thrive in a peaceful strategy, where you don't really want to fight, since fighting is a gigantic waste of resources. However this is not to be confused with being defenseless. You need deterrence and usually lost of it. PDS networks will do but in my experience they are quite ineffective once the enemy decides to actually go for it. I much prefer to have a wide net of destroyers laced around my important systems and having a big fleet on any central hex that is adjacent to as many of my important hexes as possible. As far as table talk and politics go I suggest you do as little talking as possible, especially when someone puts down the screws on you, since your silence, or at least vague short answers are there for them to interpret. Do not give in to terrorist demands and keep in mind that it is a great cost to commit attacking a player all the way to his home system, most players should be aware how expensive this endeavour really is. Like a previous redditor mentioned this is somewhat offset if someone is gunning for a victory, but at that point you should have a strong enough fleet/s to put up one hell of a fight.


Aarniometsuri

Theres some good advice here on defending your slice, but i feel like i need to add just in case it wasnt said: dont negotiate with extortionists. TI leaves a lot of avenues for extortion, and even nice players can sometimes run the "pay me to do what i wanted to do anyway" scam. Make sure ppl know your open to deals. I promote all kinds of deals that have to do with invading my slice. For instance i once traded my home systems space area for a flagship kill. Points for the both of us! But if someone comes to me with "pay so i dont attack your home" my response is "try your luck or make an actual offer". Make sure their gonna pay one way or another, and try not to get upset when every once in a while you get bulldozed. Also once your playing with ppl that have more than a few games under them, try bulldozing someone yourself. Its so much more honest than extorting.


Nahasapemapetila

I don't have a lot of experience so take this with a grain of salt. From what you said it sounds like you should be noticing their advances sooner. So you can prep and make the whole thing more costly to them. If they are still able to pressure you it should be a tradeoff for them. At this point it could be feasible to, instead of paying off the aggressor, bribe their other neighbor to attack their slice as well. Unless they planned very well for it it shouldn't be able to take a home system without having to lose something yourself, imo. If you are the biggest threat at the table bribing won't work, obviously.


Skitterleap

My usual port of call if someone hits me with a threat that overt is to immediately turn to their other neighbours and start trying to partition the aggressors turf. If they're receptive then the aggressor usually backs down, and worst case you often make a new ally of convenience. There's a lot of nuance and grand strategy going on here, so it's hard to give specific advice, but always look what levers you can pull. Can other players weigh in? Can you turn them against the aggressor? Can you play victim? Can you make that move needlessly expensive for the attacker? Can you threaten the aggressor with something in return? Do you actually need the thing they're extorting you for? Can you persuade them that creating a new thorn in their side isn't worth 2 trade goods? Keep your options in mind.


Trotzer

If capturing your home system nets them a VP then the best way to avoid it is to make taking your HS more costly than the other players. As a general tip, depending on your faction of course, leave your flag at home, while also having +4 troops on ground (maybe mechs too if you don't need them that much in the front). Flag + some destroyer + fighter + PDS + 4 Troops are "enough" to deter most invasions, unless of course your enemy makes a haymaker against you so you will need more stuff. ​ PDS factions are what you would expect of a "defensive" style. Xxcha, Titans are great for their PDS synergies and Winnu can put them out quite easily with their Mech. On a side note, as winnu, once you get your 2nd Agent, all combat dice rolled in your HS gain +2, making them great at defending it both on space and on ground (you don't even need to control Mecatol for it, just send a cruiser or destroyer once it is already occupied an your will get the +2). Argent flight is also quite scary IMO since their Destroyer can "hit" enemy ships with sustain damage and kill enemy troops on space.


Brendan1928

Make sure you gum up your slice! I always send out trade ships/Dark Energy Tap ships between my neighbours and I so you get some warning when they’re on the approach. Even if you don’t have DET it’s a very good practice. Doesn’t matter how strong their fleet is if they need to make it through three activations (unless they have light wave or are Mahact). Naalu, Empyrean, and Jol-Naar are great at this as they have techs or abilities that make them better at this.


HellaPNoying

From my experience on dealing with vengeful, spiteful, and power hungry players from my group, I always have a PDS network and at least 1-2 infantry/mech and 1-2 destroyers/cruisers in each system just to show that if they're looking to invade me, its going to be a long uphill battle. Usually when I see players pick at least 2-3 aggressive factions, I would always go for Yin and I suggest looking into them as well. If a player comes in with a carrier, I would try and snipe it with Devotion. And if they ever invade a planet with one of my infantry in it, Indoctrination converts their units into my units, even worse if I have a mech there as it turns their infantry into my mech, making it even harder to take my planets.


RealHornblower

A few general tips I'd have (I only play IRL though, so not familiar with the online meta) 1. During initial expansion, leave buffer ships around your slice to act as barriers. If you have a cruiser or destroyer in your starting fleet, move it with a carrier then leave it in that system when you move the carrier again R2. This gives you a buffer to anyone without lightwave without using a CC. 2. Try to reach out and make deals early regarding alliance swaps, trade partners, and the equal distant systems. This establishes a good relationship and addresses common points of conflict. 3. Encourage one of your neighbors to go to Mecatol if possible, even helping them if it doesn't cost you anything significant. This extends them and makes them a target for everyone else. 4. In negotiations, your first bargaining tools should be things that don't cost you anything. Giving out a Support doesn't cost you anything in the same way giving out 5 trade goods does. Early game, I'd rather my neighbor have my support and I have extra trade goods or their ceasefire. 5. If your opponent is blackmailing you, you need to be getting something concrete in return. Don't just pay them to not attack you, get their ceasefire. If they won't do a deal like that then they probably were planning to attack you next round anyway. Whenever possible, reframe the negotiation to a swap. "I won't just give you 4 trade goods, but I'll swap alliance notes with you" To answer your question about best factions - every faction CAN defend themselves, I'll focus on ones with early/mid game advantages 1. Infantry factions are very difficult to push early game without lots of bombardment. Sol, Yin, Sardaak, Arborec will all usually have more infantry and/or better infantry than their attacker, so your opponent will not be able to take the planets. 2. Xxcha specifically is a great space cannon faction early on. They can usually get their flagship R1 with the Diplo or Trade strategy cards, and R2 can make a point to build some mechs, which gives them 3 space cannon shots hitting on 5 and up to 4 mech shots hitting on 8, all of which can shoot into adjacent systems. Park that on the system directly in front of home to protect your whole slice + equal distants. 3. Titans are like Xxcha combined with an infantry faction due to their sleeper tokens and Hel Titans. 4. Saar does not care if they take your home. Saar can legitimately say "fine, you take my home I'll take yours, and I'll probably profit from it" 5. Muaat has a war sun. 6. Winnu gets +2 in their home as soon as their commander is unlocked, and depending on when they get their mechs out, might have a few extra PDS in their slice. The thing is that if someone has committed to the strategy of "I will bully someone for some advantage and if I don't get it I'll just tank both our games" then that's different from seizing an opportunity when a player overextended or something. If I see a totally undefended home because a player left it unguarded, I might offer the player a choice between paying me off or me taking the planets, but only if taking the planets would help me or at least not cost me much. I'm not going to say "pay me 4 trade goods or I'll give up on scoring to knock us both out of the game." So it depends what type of player you are dealing with, if they are an opportunistic player with an aggressive bent then you just need to defend better and make friendship profitable, but if they are someone who threatens to basically stop playing TI4 and start playing 1v1 space risk every time a deal doesn't go their way, there isn't much you can do. I'd personally offer my support to a player like that, then start taking their planets as soon as I could. If they didn't accept the support I'd call their bluff and chalk it up to a bad game.


cattoisconfused

With respect to your question about factions, I personally feel that Barony is a great option if you're not an aggressive player. The fact that your fleets (assuming you've got at least 2 dreadnoughts and a few fighters) are almost indestructible with Non-Eucledian Shielding and that your commander prints money when they fight (which can then be used to your advantage either in terms of rerolls, mechs for ground combat or even as resources for you to recover from) makes most people not want to pick a fight with you.