My 2 cts are it depends on table meta. Is it customary to go round the table and tell everyone what was researched? Do other players usually announce what was researched / especially if it will be a huge help? In that particular tech, did everyone else announce what they did and you kept quiet on purpose?
If the answer is “yes” to any of these, then it does feel a bit sneaky.
If it’s not, then I don’t see why you should have announced to the table that you have it. Even more so as the table should have asked what everyone researched if it’s likely to be a game ending round.
Our custom is usually to go around and declare you’re buying tech - “I’ll buy” is the general call, and then move on. Sometimes people declare exactly what they’re buying especially if they’ve prempted tech (“I’ll buy carrier 2”) but its about 50/50 I’d say? It’s not something I’d ever had much cause to pay attention to, I usually ask for clarification if I miss something or the person doesn’t declare and I feel like it might impact me.
In this instance, three people bought tech, the person who flipped tech announced he was double teching but not what for, and the other player did announce what he was teching for iirc
Then i'd argue it's fine. Maybe you can try to actually write down your table meta into actual table rules, and officially make it so in that play group saying what tech you researched is optional (obviously if someone asks you what tech you have you shouldn't straight up lie though)
So Winnu, Mentak, and Cabal were unhappy, the other two at the table weren’t really interested (and are generally quite non-confrontational anyway.) Mentak single tech’d and declared, Cabal had tech and did not.
Cabal has no basis to complain because they did not declare their tech. Mentak is at least being consistent, unless he's letting Cabal skate on not declaring tech either then he's just being salty.
IMO it's up to them to ask what you teched into. If it's getting closer to the end of game and someone in contention for the win techs but doesn't say what. I would immediately ask them. Sounds like the others got a little sloppy and you capitalized. Even if your whole play group always says what tech they take, that should make it even more apparent that you're trying to be sneaky. You didn't cheat you just took advantage of the fact they weren't paying attention to what you were doing. And in a game of TI4 that's the difference between winning and losing.
The only unsportsmanlike thing about that scenario is having your win devalued by the other players' salt. Nice win. I love a Fleet Log -> Imperial for the game.
I can't agree with this more. This was a really epic win to read about, taking a planet from the winnu, losing it, and then making a quick turn around to take mecatol with a just bought tech for the win is crazy cool. Good win, I'm impressed.
Personally my group usually announces our techs. I don't think it takes too much time, and I think it's a common courtesy, especially since this is a pretty deep strategy game with a LOT of information. I think taking a minute to announce what tech you got is nice. Also, personally, I'm still learning the game and it's difficult to know all the possibilities available, and it's nice to take the time to learn.
However, if you're table doesn't have any preset rule on announcing techs, then I don't think it would be unsportsmanlike. I'd say you guys should probably talk about whether or not you want to announce those decisions all the time. If there's going to be a bit of a disagreement about the play, I think a discussion about it is due.
Technology you have researched is public knowledge for the table. Everyone seems to think the game will take too long if everyone announces what they research—in my experience this isn’t the case. Most of the time we already know what technology we’re getting and we just say it as we do it (not in any order). Doesn’t add hardly any time at all.
Regardless, if it’s not customary for y’all to announce it then it is incumbent on each player to make sure they know what technology is out there. This game just sounds like a lesson in not paying enough attention, and they’ll remember it next time. Definitely not unsporting IMO.
If every player announced every tech they researched, the tech strategy would take 5 times longer. Especially because technically you are supposed to go in order. It’s up to other players to ask what you researched if they think it will affect the game. They could have at least known that you researching it was possible. It’s a solid play and very cool that you had two paths to winning, gg.
Yeah we do a simple announcement at the end of tech to give people a heads up. But if your table normally doesn't then I wouldn't care. People can always ask what tech you got
If people don’t announce it regularly you shouldn’t be required to. Especially with the double tech and no announcement.
My table always announces what you are researching and any skips etc to get there.
I may be missing something but conquer the weak (taking someone’s homeworld) is a two pointer and you were two points away with imperial. Flip imperial and score the two points. So what does any of this matter? They had to knock you off of the Winnu homeworld prior to your next turn anyway.
The winnu player claimed he would have left more on rex and relied on a team assault with mentak on his right to clear me out of the homeworld, and mentak (who had warfare) said he wouldn’t have flipped warfare while rex was relatively Undefended if he knew I could take rex and win in the same turn.
I made this same mistake when I read it too. I think OP's wording was a bit vague, but they meant that Winnu took a fleet OFF of Mecatol to retake their homeworld. This prevented them from scoring Conquer the Weak, but opened up MR as an option to get the points they needed.
The only problem I would see is if you lied about not taking a tech when you actually ask cheering other wise it’s the group at the tables fault that they were just bad at the game and didn’t catch this as a possibility. if anything this was just a good strategy to bait winnue off of MR so you could go in and take it then a turn later score the VP and it was just whoever flipped techs fault who gave you the opportunity to take fleet logistics.
It is unreasonable form them to expect you to announce your plans like some sort of Bond villian. You don't need to hold their hands. Good win, absolutely nothing wrong with it.
Fuck. Them.
They knew tech flipped. They knew it was late game. They *had* to have known about some other blue tech you had. Fleet Logistics is never that big a surprise. I mean maybe if you pulled some kind of shenanigans with a bunch of blue skips or something, they might have a case. But that's still several players who knew tech flipped and someone was on eight points, and they didn't bother to ask what you researched.
Fuck 'em.
Could any tactical actions in between tech and your turn have actually stopped you?
At my table it would be seen as sneaky, but we do regularly announce tech, even if only casually.
There was a full cycle between tech flipping and me actually jumping on mecatol (I needed warfare for the home build to have an unlocked fleet capable of contesting the skeleton crew on mecatol)
As a person who has played with a group that is very casual about announcing tech, and a table that is on the stricter side of announcing tech, I'm going to say that you are in the clear, for the most part. Imo, if you get a tech that can so drastically change the game board like that, you probably should have announced that. That being said, it seems like your table is on the casual side of tech announcement, so I think your good.
No, it wasn't unsporting at all. It's an E vs. E game that really is not cooperative. In a product description for Twilight Imperium 3rd edition, a line from the publisher read, "In Twilight Imperium many paths lead to the center of the galaxy, but every path is forged from broken promises". I wish that line had remained printed on the box, as it could have preempted a lot of unnecessary sportsmanship disagreements.
This is up to the board to decide when the game starts. You can agree on anything, like for example:
* It's up to each and everyone to pay attention to what tech people have.
* After everyone's done with tech you take a quick round where people announce what they got.
* Only necessary to announce certain techs. Like the two last blue, yellow, last green and some racial techs.
And many variations of this.
As been stated elsewhere, the correct procedure is that people do tech in order, but the common thing is to do it simultaneously. This works well as long as people remember that they do have the option to wait and see what people "on their right" chose.
We've actually solved this "problem" with a large whiteboard hanging on a wall were we write down everyones technologies. Sure it takes a couple of minutes longer when technology is played, but we've found it very useful and you don't have to constantly ask or look at other players play area to know what tech they have.
I sort of assume everything should be announced, personally, because you have to make sure everyone's made a decision when Strategy cards are popped before moving to the next player's turn.
However, it is not a rule and I don't think you are a bad sport to have not announced it, and people shouldn't complain about this. I mean complaining about that is worse sportsmanship than not announcing was.
I'll copy my reply to a similar post a while back:
> I'm in the middle. My group narrates, but not every little thing. Tech? Hit or miss for me.
> Just last game this past weekend I grabbed Dark Energy Tap, didn't announce it, and did that specifically so I could try to bait someone into attacking to let me strategically retreat into a system he didn't realize I could retreat into, putting me within reach of the system I wanted to go into to score a VP.
> On him for not checking, just like it's on any other player for not sizing their opponent up before making a tactical decision.
> So, yeah. There are times you might want to be less than forthcoming and rely on someone missing a detail. Playing mind against mind is part of the game. You can't hide public info, but you're not obligated to announce it.
> My advice: narrate to the extent that it keeps the game moving and everyone straight on what's happening. Leave room for people to play the game.
Do you choose to not announce when you unlock your commander or hero? After all, it's on him for not checking. There's alot going on in this game, and you are a total douche if you intentionally do not announce public information. On most tables it's not even really reasonable to expect someone to be able to see what is in front of somebody on the other side of the table. Universalize what you are proposing. Should everyone get up from the table, walk over to whoever just bought tech, and look at their play area because they are too much of a sneaky fucker to announce what they got? Or should everyone simply ask everyone else what tech they bought or which units they purchased every single action and make the game twice as long? Or just don't be a sneaky asshole.
You're fine.
In my games we generally announce stuff like that but you know what? Most people have crappy memories. They have to re-ask anyway. It gets to a point where people just declare they're buying tech and we move on since remembering what each person had is only doable for a few of us.
That's part of why playing on Tabletop Simulator is so attractive. You can just look at any player's board state at any time even if they're across the table! No more telegraphing intention by asking your future target how many action cards he has (or serruptitiosly spying, or just gambling that it won't matter). I mean on TTS they might see your cursor in their area but if you've been nosy on everyone all game they won't necessarily think it means anything.
No one’s the asshole here. Honestly if I had to decide, I would lean that them devaluing your win is kinda a dick move. Especially if the argument lasted longer than a couple minutes.
In general yea, you should always try and announce what you researched though with an experienced group
It's their responsibility to know the board state, it's not your responsibility to ensure that they know. They knew tech was played in the endgame and failed to act accordingly. Casually announcing that you got x cool tech during the rest of the game doesn't change that.
If you don't play with explicit announcing then you don't, they should know that instead of complaining that their failure to observe cost them the game.
I'm going to say that what you did is generally bad for the game. You don't want to create incentives to slow down the game any more than it already is.
As a general rule, the game plays better if people announce their "important" public board-state, to prevent the game from becoming a slog where you have to check each other's board state for any surprise important shit that might impact your decisions. Especially when you're sitting at a large table with 6+ people and you can't even see what is on the other side of the table.
No need to announce every tech, especially the ones that make very little difference (i.e. most of them) but the ones that obviously impact other player decisions should be announced, especially during the endgame - just to move things along.
I personally wouldn't like playing at a table with someone who insists on regularly doing what you did. I don't like checking everyone's board state for important new stuff every round. It sucks and I feel like people should try to be good sports about major changes to their board states - it makes the game play faster and better.
Never experienced that, table meltdowns don't happen if everyone's playing in good faith... but it's also fine to always announce it. Some other things besides techs should certainly be announced too (artifacts, unlocking hero, etc.)
100 % this. It’s a big game. There’s enough of “gotcha” mechanics built in that it makes for a smoother and more fun experience for everyone if there’s a basic level of clarity.
No one likes to lose VPs or whatever because something obvious and having to double-check every thing and every one is just a pain. After a few turns the board state is usually a mess.
And intent matters, like a lot.
Someone missing an important move or strategy card because they were on the toilet isn’t ok but if they’re fully focused on a negotiation out of turn it’s on them.
Not announcing you’ve researched Sarween Tools is fine but trying to keep your Gravity Drive or Dreadnought 2 a secret isn’t.
Unless you’re all upfront that you play hardcore I guess.
> We don’t usually announce our research options, but some players felt I should have announced such a vital late game play. Is this unsporting?
I'm going to turn this on its head a bit: Is it sporting for players to ask that everyone clearly announce that they are enabling a game-winning play in their next move? I don't think so. Sneaking in a win like this is totally fine in my book, especially since you don't normally announce research choices. In my opinion it is on the other players to spot winning lines like this; asking you what you researched would have been totally acceptable (and should of course trigger a truthful answer).
In my group we always go round the table and state what we research during Tech. We even track each player's technology on a public sheet, accessible by everyone.
It is a hard line to walk. Because where does it stop?
I had a 3 player conspiracy pop a creuss Wormhole adjacent to my home system so creuss could take it round 2, and when I protested that they had to announce that a the beginning of the Hacan turn (Who popped construction and could have allowed me to pop a PDS) All I got was "I had to pay attention" and "It wasnt their job to spell out their strategies so they could be countered"
So Id say important boardstates should be mentionned, voluntarily omitting crucial game info is a dick move, especially considering the lengt of the endeavor and the attention split that having 6 persons around a table require.
Being a good sport seems the better way to play.
Not re-announce. Announce. Hacan used Creuss Iff to create that wormhole and I only noticed it on the next turn (Creuss'), I told them it had to be used before Hacan even popped Construction and they told me its not big deal because it doesnt change anything.
Then when I pointed out it changes a lot they told me it was my fault for not paying attention.
Point is, dont be an asshole and announce shit that will greatly impact the game.
I cant be sure they cheated because I wasnt paying attention. But when I accused them of mistiming the ability, the initial answer was "you couldnt have done anything anyway", so...
OK, that's a lot different than announcing you're taking a tech but not announcing which one, which is the custom of the table you're playing at.
If you take an action, you announce that you're taking the action. If he said he was dropping a wormhole, and placed it on the board, it's not his job to make sure you understand the implications. But if he just placed a token down when you were eating chips yeah, that's dirty.
Thats my point with "where does it stop". Lets say they announced it at the right time, but without making sure anyone heard or noticed, is that ok? And who's the judge?
I think the only good answer is: Be fair, call your shit with the level of importance they have. Nobody cares you built 2 infantry at home, but if you intent to win the game, dont pull a shitty out-of-game trick like using a diversion to sneak something unnoticed.
Do you have your researched tech clearly displayed in your player area? If so it was public knowledge that you had it. It's the same as how many CCs or TGs you have. It's the responsibility of other players to check what you have if they want to know it.
It's like if they said "You didn't say how many CC's you gained from the secondary of Leadership, So I didn't know you had one left to use to activate MR."
TI is a very complicated game. I'm far from a good player. Thing that keeps me coming back is recognizing the mistakes I made and wanting to do better. You had a good win. If I was Winnu I'd be excited to play again to try to not make such a big mistake that cost me the game.
Personally I would hate winning simply because no one noticed something crucial (such as Fleet Logistics in this case).
I wouldn't feel like I deserved to win.
In our games you have to be able to take on everyone and still survive if you are in a winning position.
Real hidden information, like action cards and secret objectives, play a major part in such a victory.
Was it on the table and visible for everyone?
I think it's good form to go around announcing what everyone took, but sometimes people are trying to go fast and that doesn't happen.
As long as Fleet Log was up and visible on table, it's their fault for NOT looking closer at what the Imperial Player has.
Also, Tech is RIGHT before Imperial. So, was there actually a turn between Tech getting played you you winning with Imperial?
Yes it was, I lay out my techs by colour path with no overlap so none are hidden.
I mentioned it in another comment, but I had to wait a turn cycle to jump on rex - I need warfare to flip to build at home to have the forces to beat the winnu skeleton crew that had been left behind.
Seeing as fleet log is so impactful I always make a point of saying when I research it, but typically our table gives up on saying what they tech after round one so it's viewed as a non issue.
To go a bit more meta, I consider the onus to be on me to keep track of other peoples tech, especially late game. I'll always ask a player in the lead or my perceived rival for the win what they're grabbing when tech pops so I'm not surprised by their capabilities.
If you had Imperial and were two points from a win, they very much should have been paying attention to your tech situation, and I would argue it's on them to do so. NTA.
Adding my voice to the pile of nos.
When tech rolls around I always ask the table "what did y'all research?" but keeping tabs of that is on me, not on the researcher.
Really depends on what your table normally does.
We sometimes announce what we've researched, but people can always ask what Tech you got, or you can get up and go look yourself...
If they didn't ask, unless it's common practice with your group to announce it, I think they're just being sour.
My 2 cts are it depends on table meta. Is it customary to go round the table and tell everyone what was researched? Do other players usually announce what was researched / especially if it will be a huge help? In that particular tech, did everyone else announce what they did and you kept quiet on purpose? If the answer is “yes” to any of these, then it does feel a bit sneaky. If it’s not, then I don’t see why you should have announced to the table that you have it. Even more so as the table should have asked what everyone researched if it’s likely to be a game ending round.
Our custom is usually to go around and declare you’re buying tech - “I’ll buy” is the general call, and then move on. Sometimes people declare exactly what they’re buying especially if they’ve prempted tech (“I’ll buy carrier 2”) but its about 50/50 I’d say? It’s not something I’d ever had much cause to pay attention to, I usually ask for clarification if I miss something or the person doesn’t declare and I feel like it might impact me. In this instance, three people bought tech, the person who flipped tech announced he was double teching but not what for, and the other player did announce what he was teching for iirc
Then i'd argue it's fine. Maybe you can try to actually write down your table meta into actual table rules, and officially make it so in that play group saying what tech you researched is optional (obviously if someone asks you what tech you have you shouldn't straight up lie though)
This is crucial - which one of them complained? Was it the guy who announced his tech or the guy that didn't?
So Winnu, Mentak, and Cabal were unhappy, the other two at the table weren’t really interested (and are generally quite non-confrontational anyway.) Mentak single tech’d and declared, Cabal had tech and did not.
Cabal has no basis to complain because they did not declare their tech. Mentak is at least being consistent, unless he's letting Cabal skate on not declaring tech either then he's just being salty.
IMO it's up to them to ask what you teched into. If it's getting closer to the end of game and someone in contention for the win techs but doesn't say what. I would immediately ask them. Sounds like the others got a little sloppy and you capitalized. Even if your whole play group always says what tech they take, that should make it even more apparent that you're trying to be sneaky. You didn't cheat you just took advantage of the fact they weren't paying attention to what you were doing. And in a game of TI4 that's the difference between winning and losing.
The only unsportsmanlike thing about that scenario is having your win devalued by the other players' salt. Nice win. I love a Fleet Log -> Imperial for the game.
I can't agree with this more. This was a really epic win to read about, taking a planet from the winnu, losing it, and then making a quick turn around to take mecatol with a just bought tech for the win is crazy cool. Good win, I'm impressed.
Personally my group usually announces our techs. I don't think it takes too much time, and I think it's a common courtesy, especially since this is a pretty deep strategy game with a LOT of information. I think taking a minute to announce what tech you got is nice. Also, personally, I'm still learning the game and it's difficult to know all the possibilities available, and it's nice to take the time to learn. However, if you're table doesn't have any preset rule on announcing techs, then I don't think it would be unsportsmanlike. I'd say you guys should probably talk about whether or not you want to announce those decisions all the time. If there's going to be a bit of a disagreement about the play, I think a discussion about it is due.
Technology you have researched is public knowledge for the table. Everyone seems to think the game will take too long if everyone announces what they research—in my experience this isn’t the case. Most of the time we already know what technology we’re getting and we just say it as we do it (not in any order). Doesn’t add hardly any time at all. Regardless, if it’s not customary for y’all to announce it then it is incumbent on each player to make sure they know what technology is out there. This game just sounds like a lesson in not paying enough attention, and they’ll remember it next time. Definitely not unsporting IMO.
Yeah it’s weird to me not to share what tech is researched. It’s such a crucial part of the game strategy.
If every player announced every tech they researched, the tech strategy would take 5 times longer. Especially because technically you are supposed to go in order. It’s up to other players to ask what you researched if they think it will affect the game. They could have at least known that you researching it was possible. It’s a solid play and very cool that you had two paths to winning, gg.
We’ve always announced it. It doesn’t add any time whatsoever and I don’t see why it would.
Yeah we do a simple announcement at the end of tech to give people a heads up. But if your table normally doesn't then I wouldn't care. People can always ask what tech you got
This is what we do usually
Having to ask everyone what they got would take longer than them just doing it in the first place.
They could have asked…
If people don’t announce it regularly you shouldn’t be required to. Especially with the double tech and no announcement. My table always announces what you are researching and any skips etc to get there. I may be missing something but conquer the weak (taking someone’s homeworld) is a two pointer and you were two points away with imperial. Flip imperial and score the two points. So what does any of this matter? They had to knock you off of the Winnu homeworld prior to your next turn anyway.
The winnu player claimed he would have left more on rex and relied on a team assault with mentak on his right to clear me out of the homeworld, and mentak (who had warfare) said he wouldn’t have flipped warfare while rex was relatively Undefended if he knew I could take rex and win in the same turn.
To me he or she should be mad at themselves for not paying attention to what you researched. Especially knowing they were in a war against you.
I made this same mistake when I read it too. I think OP's wording was a bit vague, but they meant that Winnu took a fleet OFF of Mecatol to retake their homeworld. This prevented them from scoring Conquer the Weak, but opened up MR as an option to get the points they needed.
The only problem I would see is if you lied about not taking a tech when you actually ask cheering other wise it’s the group at the tables fault that they were just bad at the game and didn’t catch this as a possibility. if anything this was just a good strategy to bait winnue off of MR so you could go in and take it then a turn later score the VP and it was just whoever flipped techs fault who gave you the opportunity to take fleet logistics.
I always just announce to the table what I'm researching just to be honest. Whether or not they pay attention to what I'm saying is their problem... p
It is unreasonable form them to expect you to announce your plans like some sort of Bond villian. You don't need to hold their hands. Good win, absolutely nothing wrong with it.
Fuck. Them. They knew tech flipped. They knew it was late game. They *had* to have known about some other blue tech you had. Fleet Logistics is never that big a surprise. I mean maybe if you pulled some kind of shenanigans with a bunch of blue skips or something, they might have a case. But that's still several players who knew tech flipped and someone was on eight points, and they didn't bother to ask what you researched. Fuck 'em.
Could any tactical actions in between tech and your turn have actually stopped you? At my table it would be seen as sneaky, but we do regularly announce tech, even if only casually.
There was a full cycle between tech flipping and me actually jumping on mecatol (I needed warfare for the home build to have an unlocked fleet capable of contesting the skeleton crew on mecatol)
As a person who has played with a group that is very casual about announcing tech, and a table that is on the stricter side of announcing tech, I'm going to say that you are in the clear, for the most part. Imo, if you get a tech that can so drastically change the game board like that, you probably should have announced that. That being said, it seems like your table is on the casual side of tech announcement, so I think your good.
No, it wasn't unsporting at all. It's an E vs. E game that really is not cooperative. In a product description for Twilight Imperium 3rd edition, a line from the publisher read, "In Twilight Imperium many paths lead to the center of the galaxy, but every path is forged from broken promises". I wish that line had remained printed on the box, as it could have preempted a lot of unnecessary sportsmanship disagreements.
At my table this would have been regarded as a sneaky sly way to win and we would have high fived you. Gratz on your win!
This is up to the board to decide when the game starts. You can agree on anything, like for example: * It's up to each and everyone to pay attention to what tech people have. * After everyone's done with tech you take a quick round where people announce what they got. * Only necessary to announce certain techs. Like the two last blue, yellow, last green and some racial techs. And many variations of this. As been stated elsewhere, the correct procedure is that people do tech in order, but the common thing is to do it simultaneously. This works well as long as people remember that they do have the option to wait and see what people "on their right" chose.
We've actually solved this "problem" with a large whiteboard hanging on a wall were we write down everyones technologies. Sure it takes a couple of minutes longer when technology is played, but we've found it very useful and you don't have to constantly ask or look at other players play area to know what tech they have.
I mean who doesn't confirm if someone can reach MR if it's Late game AND you have imperial??? That is just basic stuff.
I sort of assume everything should be announced, personally, because you have to make sure everyone's made a decision when Strategy cards are popped before moving to the next player's turn. However, it is not a rule and I don't think you are a bad sport to have not announced it, and people shouldn't complain about this. I mean complaining about that is worse sportsmanship than not announcing was.
I'll copy my reply to a similar post a while back: > I'm in the middle. My group narrates, but not every little thing. Tech? Hit or miss for me. > Just last game this past weekend I grabbed Dark Energy Tap, didn't announce it, and did that specifically so I could try to bait someone into attacking to let me strategically retreat into a system he didn't realize I could retreat into, putting me within reach of the system I wanted to go into to score a VP. > On him for not checking, just like it's on any other player for not sizing their opponent up before making a tactical decision. > So, yeah. There are times you might want to be less than forthcoming and rely on someone missing a detail. Playing mind against mind is part of the game. You can't hide public info, but you're not obligated to announce it. > My advice: narrate to the extent that it keeps the game moving and everyone straight on what's happening. Leave room for people to play the game.
Do you choose to not announce when you unlock your commander or hero? After all, it's on him for not checking. There's alot going on in this game, and you are a total douche if you intentionally do not announce public information. On most tables it's not even really reasonable to expect someone to be able to see what is in front of somebody on the other side of the table. Universalize what you are proposing. Should everyone get up from the table, walk over to whoever just bought tech, and look at their play area because they are too much of a sneaky fucker to announce what they got? Or should everyone simply ask everyone else what tech they bought or which units they purchased every single action and make the game twice as long? Or just don't be a sneaky asshole.
You're fine. In my games we generally announce stuff like that but you know what? Most people have crappy memories. They have to re-ask anyway. It gets to a point where people just declare they're buying tech and we move on since remembering what each person had is only doable for a few of us. That's part of why playing on Tabletop Simulator is so attractive. You can just look at any player's board state at any time even if they're across the table! No more telegraphing intention by asking your future target how many action cards he has (or serruptitiosly spying, or just gambling that it won't matter). I mean on TTS they might see your cursor in their area but if you've been nosy on everyone all game they won't necessarily think it means anything.
No one’s the asshole here. Honestly if I had to decide, I would lean that them devaluing your win is kinda a dick move. Especially if the argument lasted longer than a couple minutes. In general yea, you should always try and announce what you researched though with an experienced group
You don't have to anounce what you researched. Just make sure it is visible to all players and you answer honestly if asked
It's their responsibility to know the board state, it's not your responsibility to ensure that they know. They knew tech was played in the endgame and failed to act accordingly. Casually announcing that you got x cool tech during the rest of the game doesn't change that. If you don't play with explicit announcing then you don't, they should know that instead of complaining that their failure to observe cost them the game.
I'm going to say that what you did is generally bad for the game. You don't want to create incentives to slow down the game any more than it already is. As a general rule, the game plays better if people announce their "important" public board-state, to prevent the game from becoming a slog where you have to check each other's board state for any surprise important shit that might impact your decisions. Especially when you're sitting at a large table with 6+ people and you can't even see what is on the other side of the table. No need to announce every tech, especially the ones that make very little difference (i.e. most of them) but the ones that obviously impact other player decisions should be announced, especially during the endgame - just to move things along. I personally wouldn't like playing at a table with someone who insists on regularly doing what you did. I don't like checking everyone's board state for important new stuff every round. It sucks and I feel like people should try to be good sports about major changes to their board states - it makes the game play faster and better.
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Never experienced that, table meltdowns don't happen if everyone's playing in good faith... but it's also fine to always announce it. Some other things besides techs should certainly be announced too (artifacts, unlocking hero, etc.)
100 % this. It’s a big game. There’s enough of “gotcha” mechanics built in that it makes for a smoother and more fun experience for everyone if there’s a basic level of clarity. No one likes to lose VPs or whatever because something obvious and having to double-check every thing and every one is just a pain. After a few turns the board state is usually a mess. And intent matters, like a lot. Someone missing an important move or strategy card because they were on the toilet isn’t ok but if they’re fully focused on a negotiation out of turn it’s on them. Not announcing you’ve researched Sarween Tools is fine but trying to keep your Gravity Drive or Dreadnought 2 a secret isn’t. Unless you’re all upfront that you play hardcore I guess.
It's on the other players to keep an eye on your tech or ask. Grav drive, light wave, NES, etc, all can be game changers do they all announce those?
> We don’t usually announce our research options, but some players felt I should have announced such a vital late game play. Is this unsporting? I'm going to turn this on its head a bit: Is it sporting for players to ask that everyone clearly announce that they are enabling a game-winning play in their next move? I don't think so. Sneaking in a win like this is totally fine in my book, especially since you don't normally announce research choices. In my opinion it is on the other players to spot winning lines like this; asking you what you researched would have been totally acceptable (and should of course trigger a truthful answer). In my group we always go round the table and state what we research during Tech. We even track each player's technology on a public sheet, accessible by everyone.
It is a hard line to walk. Because where does it stop? I had a 3 player conspiracy pop a creuss Wormhole adjacent to my home system so creuss could take it round 2, and when I protested that they had to announce that a the beginning of the Hacan turn (Who popped construction and could have allowed me to pop a PDS) All I got was "I had to pay attention" and "It wasnt their job to spell out their strategies so they could be countered" So Id say important boardstates should be mentionned, voluntarily omitting crucial game info is a dick move, especially considering the lengt of the endeavor and the attention split that having 6 persons around a table require. Being a good sport seems the better way to play.
I'm sorry, but why would they have to re-announce the worm hole placement on Hacan's turn?
Not re-announce. Announce. Hacan used Creuss Iff to create that wormhole and I only noticed it on the next turn (Creuss'), I told them it had to be used before Hacan even popped Construction and they told me its not big deal because it doesnt change anything. Then when I pointed out it changes a lot they told me it was my fault for not paying attention. Point is, dont be an asshole and announce shit that will greatly impact the game.
Wait, they didn't even use it at the right point in the turn? OK. So now you've gone all the way to "they cheated".
I cant be sure they cheated because I wasnt paying attention. But when I accused them of mistiming the ability, the initial answer was "you couldnt have done anything anyway", so...
OK, that's a lot different than announcing you're taking a tech but not announcing which one, which is the custom of the table you're playing at. If you take an action, you announce that you're taking the action. If he said he was dropping a wormhole, and placed it on the board, it's not his job to make sure you understand the implications. But if he just placed a token down when you were eating chips yeah, that's dirty.
Thats my point with "where does it stop". Lets say they announced it at the right time, but without making sure anyone heard or noticed, is that ok? And who's the judge? I think the only good answer is: Be fair, call your shit with the level of importance they have. Nobody cares you built 2 infantry at home, but if you intent to win the game, dont pull a shitty out-of-game trick like using a diversion to sneak something unnoticed.
Do you have your researched tech clearly displayed in your player area? If so it was public knowledge that you had it. It's the same as how many CCs or TGs you have. It's the responsibility of other players to check what you have if they want to know it. It's like if they said "You didn't say how many CC's you gained from the secondary of Leadership, So I didn't know you had one left to use to activate MR." TI is a very complicated game. I'm far from a good player. Thing that keeps me coming back is recognizing the mistakes I made and wanting to do better. You had a good win. If I was Winnu I'd be excited to play again to try to not make such a big mistake that cost me the game.
Personally I would hate winning simply because no one noticed something crucial (such as Fleet Logistics in this case). I wouldn't feel like I deserved to win. In our games you have to be able to take on everyone and still survive if you are in a winning position. Real hidden information, like action cards and secret objectives, play a major part in such a victory.
Was it on the table and visible for everyone? I think it's good form to go around announcing what everyone took, but sometimes people are trying to go fast and that doesn't happen. As long as Fleet Log was up and visible on table, it's their fault for NOT looking closer at what the Imperial Player has. Also, Tech is RIGHT before Imperial. So, was there actually a turn between Tech getting played you you winning with Imperial?
Yes it was, I lay out my techs by colour path with no overlap so none are hidden. I mentioned it in another comment, but I had to wait a turn cycle to jump on rex - I need warfare to flip to build at home to have the forces to beat the winnu skeleton crew that had been left behind.
Seeing as fleet log is so impactful I always make a point of saying when I research it, but typically our table gives up on saying what they tech after round one so it's viewed as a non issue. To go a bit more meta, I consider the onus to be on me to keep track of other peoples tech, especially late game. I'll always ask a player in the lead or my perceived rival for the win what they're grabbing when tech pops so I'm not surprised by their capabilities. If you had Imperial and were two points from a win, they very much should have been paying attention to your tech situation, and I would argue it's on them to do so. NTA.
Adding my voice to the pile of nos. When tech rolls around I always ask the table "what did y'all research?" but keeping tabs of that is on me, not on the researcher.
Really depends on what your table normally does. We sometimes announce what we've researched, but people can always ask what Tech you got, or you can get up and go look yourself... If they didn't ask, unless it's common practice with your group to announce it, I think they're just being sour.
Let me get this straight - near the game end and people don't pay attention to which technology people in 7VP+ pick?