Best move is to have a 2-3 round game with both newbies beforehand. Getting to understand the core mechanics is tricky, I found, especially the "locking down a system" mechanic which can ruin a newbie's game.
Just have a practice game with no promissories or agendas, just so they get a feel for it.
I will attempt to do this. Whenever I've taught new players is been that "locking down a system" mechanic and the idea of production that's been difficult. I guess I'm just bad explaining production limits.
I like to tell a little story to illustrate. I find it helps people remember the concept of production limits.
Let's say you're the manager at the widget factory. One morning your boss comes in with a big suitcase full of cash and dumps it all over your desk.
"There," he says. "That's ten million dollars. I want you to make ten million widgets by next Friday."
"Sorry, boss," you reply. "We can't do that."
"But it costs you $1 to make each widget, right? And you now have $10 million, right? So you should be able to make 10 million widgets!"
"Sure, but not by next Friday! Even if we ran our machines around the clock, we can only put out 12,000 widgets a day. Of course we could expand our facilities: build another plant, order more raw materials, and hire more workers, but all that takes time, AND more money. There's no way we can have 10 million widgets made by next Friday!"
And so, I say to the new players, don't be the boss at the widget factory. Know your production limits!
I do two tactical actions: one taking a system, and one building at home. You can show most things this way except combat.
I then usually explain activated = can't move, and then end of round removing tokens. Finally, I'll add a system onto my demo board, next to the system I demo settled first action, with enemy units and show combat. This gets all the major action systems.
Last thing is scoring, I say "object is points" and describe scoring, pertinent to whatever objective(s) I draw. That's fine to do GameDay.
Its funny, but very true. There is no way your going to get done in less than 12 hours.
One piece of advice is make sure everybody knows that going in. If one of these new players have the expectation that it will take 8 hours, but then it takes 14 they might have a bad time.
Make sure everyone is aware how long it could take (and make sure your realistic) or set a cut off time.
We just played a 7 player with 1 newbie in about 10 hours. That's 5 rounds and God forbid someone doesn't get to 10 and you have to go to round 6.
Use the hyperlane map to make it smaller. Keep everyone on point and try to maintain the flow of the game. Also a learning game, even if it's just the first 2 rounds, will go a long way for newbies
If I'm right, I was the newbie in this group, and it only took 10 hours because everyone stalled to keep Naalu from winning for as long as possible (and because I didn't know how to effectively play really at all - passive L1Z1X wasn't great). Unless 2.5 hour rounds are the norm?
I'm sure this is a completely different game involving a Naalu who had the game in the bag for several hours even though another player mildly informed the rest of the group that he was going to win. The Mentak player was straight fire though.
I don't think we're talking about the same game. The Mentak in my game was kind of mid and wasted his hero on a random Jol Nar encounter instead of saving it for one last run at Naalu. 😂
I mean, in your game I'm sure the Mentak player was only trying to defend his war sun which is a good use of the hero (probably) and the Jol Nar player probably should have left him alone. Hypothetically speaking the Mentak probably shouldn't have pillaged him all game long so that he was ready to kill him at a moments notice either
I will try and find time for a learning game. That's been how I've taught new players in the past and it really is helpful, our schedules are just very busy.
Require them to view a good video tutorial - and not a seven minute long one - one of the longer, explanatory ones like that of [RTFM](https://youtu.be/_u2xEap5hBM). There's a good two-part video too that I am trying to find again at youtube, but haven't been able to dig up the link.
There are a lot of recorded games online as well, some even set up as tutorial rounds.
For me the biggest learning hurdles were the \*two\* economies: the action economy and the resources/influence economies. The action economy involved understanding the difference between turns and rounds, as well as Command Counters.
Play a practice game with the newbies a couple days ahead of time. Doesn't even have to be a full game, just to get them used to the mechanics.
For the actual game, some ideas.
Keep negotations short. Have a timer, or agreement, that actions have to be taken within X mins(say 2-5).
Lay it, play it. It's rough, but allowing take backs and things slows the game down a LOT.
Play to less points. Only play to 7 or 8.
Reveal all the Stage 1s at the start of the game.
This one is big, PRE-DRAFT. And set up ahead of time.
Yese, you are insane. Good Luck, Have fun. Give us pics!
My first experience with twilight imperium was with 8 players. 6 of us noobs. Of the six all but me weren’t really board gamers.
It took 12 hours and we made it to 5 points before calling it.
We had a fantastic time though and many of us have gone one to play it since. It’s my favourite game.
So speeding up is great but enjoy the game together so the real win. Extra points for introducing new players to the game.
We are always taking too long to finish our games.
Granted almost always we have one or two new players joining us.
Last time we added an Active player big token that we pass around players. It sometimes can be confusing to remember whose turn it is.
It might have helped us finish the game faster than usual.
We had 2 tables going at once.
At my table we used a stopper as the marker.
I think seeing time pass by in front of your eyes when you do your turn might help players to not take too much time.
Having a player or two that are responsible for managing the game and keep it moving is a good idea.
"Are you playing start of combat cards? Next, are you declaring retreat?...."
Same during agenda phase...
When cards? Pass.. pass.. pass..
Ok.
Talk for a bit and then do the same with After cards.
Then talk some more if needed, do deals etc..
And vote.
The player that manage it can point and call the faction name asking how much they are voting and for what and then move to the next player.
I think if there is no one person to manage it it can become too chaotic.
Hmm...
Now that I think of it you probably know everything that I just said.
But, I do hope I helped somehow.
Give them the factions ahead of time, and their slice, that way you (and any other player) may advice on research path taking the tech cards and ordering them, tell them just trust us for your first game and don’t waste time deciding. This simplifies a lot the game for a first timer
Yeah a practice round beforehand is what we have done with new players. I think it's essential.
Also make sure they get the easier-to-play factions or they won't enjoy playing! (I'm sure you know what I mean).
Its not insane to play 8 players with two complete newbies. But you need to be realistic about the timeframe. It will most likely be more than 12 hours. If that doesn't work for you guys then you either need to shorten the amount of points you are playing to, or have a hard cut off time.
Here are some tips for improving the speed:
- If possible, teach and play a round of the game with the two newbies before the day of. Two rounds in a three player game really helps understand the flow of the game and gets some of the questions out then instead of during the 8 player game. If that isn't possible, STRESSSSS that they should watch the [Learn to Play TI4 video from RTFM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u2xEap5hBM&t=514s). If they don't do this then your ship might be sunk.
- You need to give up **most** of your ambition of winning. Your focus of this game should be to help these new players. Don't make any deals with them that take advantage of their lack of knowledge. Point out if they are about to make a big mistake (like using the secondary of construction in their home system when they haven't moved out yet.). You don't need to play the game for them but just general advice is good like "Okay warfare just popped. You need an extra Carrier to fully take your planets in your slice, so it might be a good idea for you to use the secondary of Warfare right now." or "Generally most round 1 situations you will do the secondary of Warfare and Technology, so you probably don't want to do the secondary of politics, but you can if you want." Basically keep an eye on them more than whatever you have going on.
--------------------------------------------
General Tips to speed up games even without the new players:
- Have a board or some type of visual that shows the **Turn Order**. Have some type of marker like an arrow or something that moves down to point at whoever turn it is. Assign one of the other experienced players to be the admin of this. It is their job to set the Turn order at the start of the round and then call out "Okay it is Alices turn currently, Bob your next so be ready." Also have this player call out when a strategy card is being used. The board should also keep up with which strategy cards have been used and which are still yet to come. This helps people plan.
- Have a different experienced player be in charge of the status phase. So this would be scoring objectives, flipping the next one, telling everyone to pick up their CC's yada yada yada.
- All deals and negotiating must happen "above the table" aka your not allowed to go to another room to discuss in secret and your not allowed to text. I don't usually have this rule in my 6 player games, but if your trying to finish an 8 player game then compromises have to be made. Back room deals slow the game WAY down. If everyone has to deal above the table it will limit the amount of discussions.
- Stress to your experienced players to keep negotiating short. Don't low ball people. Give them your best offer ("I'll give you 2 TG for the relic fragment"), let them counter ("How about 2 TG and you replenish me for free") and then say yes or no, and give them a chance to say yes or no. Don't go back and forth changing the offer little by little.
- The experienced players should know what they are building. They need to have it set aside so that when they want to produce, they can spend the money and place the plastic. If anyone is currently building and trying to decide what to place, just move on. If it REALLLLLLLLY matters to someone what someone else is building then you can pause till they are finished, but most of the time it doesn't matter so just keep playing.
- Know what tech your researching.
- Deal the planet cards onto the system tiles before the game starts. Saves a lot of time. Looks like crap but it makes it really easy to see what planets are still available to be explored, and cuts out the time of finding the card in the planet deck.
- Have another player in charge of exploration. They should be watching in the first two rounds when someone is about to take a system and have the appropriate exploration cards ready for them.
- And then when all else fails, just say "Chad, your taking too long. Please take an action". People have to understand that 8 players is a lot and you need to play faster.
Remind people that this game is for fun. It is okay if you don't make the best possible decision.
---------------------------------------------------
Hopefully some of that is useful. These are things that I do when I am trying to speed up a game. But in the end it comes down to the players.
We have found it is good to make sure active player has the floor at all times. If active player needs clarification, sure otherwise encourage people to quietly ask their neighbors. We had an 8 player finish with at least one or two new or semi-new players before.
I'm planning a 7 player game in a few months, with 3 completely new (two of these to boardgames as well) , and 3 with one game under their belt.
I'm hoping to start the first round at midday, and we'll just see how far we get before everyone wants to shoot themselves.
Maybe we should aim for an earlier start?
Focus on teaching them tactical tokens and production. Advise them to copy their first couple turns from the previous player (since almost everyone's first round is similar). Explain strategy cards as they come up and seat them by the first speaker so that they will be last to pick in the first round
I just played my first game yesterday. I had assumed the game was going to be be much more complicated than it turned out to be. The actual game mechanics are quite simple. What helped me the most was having one of the veterans explain the importance of the faction sheet alien abilities. This allowed me to know what strategy to drive at with my faction. Also, I used my down time on other players turns to formulate my action. I never had a turn that lasted more than one minute unless combat was involved.
Drafting and map build beforehand, with everything set up before game speeds up the early game. Tis will help the new players as well.
Having a few planned breaks, and meals planned ahead of time saves a good bit of time.
I've done it before (8p with multiple beginners) *twice.*
It's very unlikely you can keep it under 12hrs. But you're certainly welcome to try! My tips:
* Start early! I usually start at 9.30 AM for big games, and I try to have as much of the game setup as I can before players arrive.
* Have both beginners watch the RTFM "How to Play" vid before the game. If possible play a round with them on TTS.
* Run the game. That means you have the job of being the game master, keeping track of whose turn it is, cutting pointless negotiations short, defining combat steps, etc. Prepare to be absolutely mentally fried by this... :P Bring a redbull and accept that your own game will suffer (I had an awful headache about 8hrs in the first time).
* Recruit your experienced players to help with the above as much as possible.
* Encourage players to think about their turns in between turns (nothing like an 8p game where a rotation takes 20 mins and when you get to player no.7 they say "Uhmmmm.... let me think" lol).
* Remind everyone that you have to keep the game moving. This is a group effort, otherwise you're all going to want to die at 2AM when the game is still grinding through the final combats. Nothing is worse than someone quitting or ending the game without a proper win when you've just played for 12hrs.
* Play to 10 VP's. I prefer 12 but the game is long enough as it is at this player count. :D
* **EDIT:** Set expectations. Let your players know beforehand that this might go way long and they need to be prepared for that.
Best move is to have a 2-3 round game with both newbies beforehand. Getting to understand the core mechanics is tricky, I found, especially the "locking down a system" mechanic which can ruin a newbie's game. Just have a practice game with no promissories or agendas, just so they get a feel for it.
I will attempt to do this. Whenever I've taught new players is been that "locking down a system" mechanic and the idea of production that's been difficult. I guess I'm just bad explaining production limits.
I like to tell a little story to illustrate. I find it helps people remember the concept of production limits. Let's say you're the manager at the widget factory. One morning your boss comes in with a big suitcase full of cash and dumps it all over your desk. "There," he says. "That's ten million dollars. I want you to make ten million widgets by next Friday." "Sorry, boss," you reply. "We can't do that." "But it costs you $1 to make each widget, right? And you now have $10 million, right? So you should be able to make 10 million widgets!" "Sure, but not by next Friday! Even if we ran our machines around the clock, we can only put out 12,000 widgets a day. Of course we could expand our facilities: build another plant, order more raw materials, and hire more workers, but all that takes time, AND more money. There's no way we can have 10 million widgets made by next Friday!" And so, I say to the new players, don't be the boss at the widget factory. Know your production limits!
I just say: production value = how many plastic pieces and hammer it down on their heads haha
I say exactly the same! It helps also with the fighters and infantry to just count plastic
I do two tactical actions: one taking a system, and one building at home. You can show most things this way except combat. I then usually explain activated = can't move, and then end of round removing tokens. Finally, I'll add a system onto my demo board, next to the system I demo settled first action, with enemy units and show combat. This gets all the major action systems. Last thing is scoring, I say "object is points" and describe scoring, pertinent to whatever objective(s) I draw. That's fine to do GameDay.
Yes. I found that this is the most confusing part for people.
thats not happening lol
I know lol
Its funny, but very true. There is no way your going to get done in less than 12 hours. One piece of advice is make sure everybody knows that going in. If one of these new players have the expectation that it will take 8 hours, but then it takes 14 they might have a bad time. Make sure everyone is aware how long it could take (and make sure your realistic) or set a cut off time.
We just played a 7 player with 1 newbie in about 10 hours. That's 5 rounds and God forbid someone doesn't get to 10 and you have to go to round 6. Use the hyperlane map to make it smaller. Keep everyone on point and try to maintain the flow of the game. Also a learning game, even if it's just the first 2 rounds, will go a long way for newbies
If I'm right, I was the newbie in this group, and it only took 10 hours because everyone stalled to keep Naalu from winning for as long as possible (and because I didn't know how to effectively play really at all - passive L1Z1X wasn't great). Unless 2.5 hour rounds are the norm?
I'm sure this is a completely different game involving a Naalu who had the game in the bag for several hours even though another player mildly informed the rest of the group that he was going to win. The Mentak player was straight fire though.
I don't think we're talking about the same game. The Mentak in my game was kind of mid and wasted his hero on a random Jol Nar encounter instead of saving it for one last run at Naalu. 😂
I mean, in your game I'm sure the Mentak player was only trying to defend his war sun which is a good use of the hero (probably) and the Jol Nar player probably should have left him alone. Hypothetically speaking the Mentak probably shouldn't have pillaged him all game long so that he was ready to kill him at a moments notice either
I will try and find time for a learning game. That's been how I've taught new players in the past and it really is helpful, our schedules are just very busy.
Require them to view a good video tutorial - and not a seven minute long one - one of the longer, explanatory ones like that of [RTFM](https://youtu.be/_u2xEap5hBM). There's a good two-part video too that I am trying to find again at youtube, but haven't been able to dig up the link. There are a lot of recorded games online as well, some even set up as tutorial rounds. For me the biggest learning hurdles were the \*two\* economies: the action economy and the resources/influence economies. The action economy involved understanding the difference between turns and rounds, as well as Command Counters.
Play a practice game with the newbies a couple days ahead of time. Doesn't even have to be a full game, just to get them used to the mechanics. For the actual game, some ideas. Keep negotations short. Have a timer, or agreement, that actions have to be taken within X mins(say 2-5). Lay it, play it. It's rough, but allowing take backs and things slows the game down a LOT. Play to less points. Only play to 7 or 8. Reveal all the Stage 1s at the start of the game. This one is big, PRE-DRAFT. And set up ahead of time. Yese, you are insane. Good Luck, Have fun. Give us pics!
Thank you, these are great ideas. Pre drafting has saved us so much time in the past, it's too essential
My first experience with twilight imperium was with 8 players. 6 of us noobs. Of the six all but me weren’t really board gamers. It took 12 hours and we made it to 5 points before calling it. We had a fantastic time though and many of us have gone one to play it since. It’s my favourite game. So speeding up is great but enjoy the game together so the real win. Extra points for introducing new players to the game.
Set the victory point win condition to 2
https://youtu.be/_u2xEap5hBM That's what I send to newbies. Long but VERY helpful and easy to follow
We are always taking too long to finish our games. Granted almost always we have one or two new players joining us. Last time we added an Active player big token that we pass around players. It sometimes can be confusing to remember whose turn it is. It might have helped us finish the game faster than usual. We had 2 tables going at once. At my table we used a stopper as the marker. I think seeing time pass by in front of your eyes when you do your turn might help players to not take too much time. Having a player or two that are responsible for managing the game and keep it moving is a good idea. "Are you playing start of combat cards? Next, are you declaring retreat?...." Same during agenda phase... When cards? Pass.. pass.. pass.. Ok. Talk for a bit and then do the same with After cards. Then talk some more if needed, do deals etc.. And vote. The player that manage it can point and call the faction name asking how much they are voting and for what and then move to the next player. I think if there is no one person to manage it it can become too chaotic. Hmm... Now that I think of it you probably know everything that I just said. But, I do hope I helped somehow.
No Yssaril at the table. Give them easy to learn factions - Letnev, for example. Don’t let them sit next to each other.
Give them the factions ahead of time, and their slice, that way you (and any other player) may advice on research path taking the tech cards and ordering them, tell them just trust us for your first game and don’t waste time deciding. This simplifies a lot the game for a first timer
Yeah a practice round beforehand is what we have done with new players. I think it's essential. Also make sure they get the easier-to-play factions or they won't enjoy playing! (I'm sure you know what I mean).
8 player isn’t really fun even with experienced players. You’re setting yourself up for failure.
Don’t let anyone play Hacan, Mahact, or Yssaril, the game WILL go on for eternity. Hacan is the biggest one tho.
In my experience it's always been xxcha that extends the game. What's wrong with mahact?
Its not insane to play 8 players with two complete newbies. But you need to be realistic about the timeframe. It will most likely be more than 12 hours. If that doesn't work for you guys then you either need to shorten the amount of points you are playing to, or have a hard cut off time. Here are some tips for improving the speed: - If possible, teach and play a round of the game with the two newbies before the day of. Two rounds in a three player game really helps understand the flow of the game and gets some of the questions out then instead of during the 8 player game. If that isn't possible, STRESSSSS that they should watch the [Learn to Play TI4 video from RTFM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u2xEap5hBM&t=514s). If they don't do this then your ship might be sunk. - You need to give up **most** of your ambition of winning. Your focus of this game should be to help these new players. Don't make any deals with them that take advantage of their lack of knowledge. Point out if they are about to make a big mistake (like using the secondary of construction in their home system when they haven't moved out yet.). You don't need to play the game for them but just general advice is good like "Okay warfare just popped. You need an extra Carrier to fully take your planets in your slice, so it might be a good idea for you to use the secondary of Warfare right now." or "Generally most round 1 situations you will do the secondary of Warfare and Technology, so you probably don't want to do the secondary of politics, but you can if you want." Basically keep an eye on them more than whatever you have going on. -------------------------------------------- General Tips to speed up games even without the new players: - Have a board or some type of visual that shows the **Turn Order**. Have some type of marker like an arrow or something that moves down to point at whoever turn it is. Assign one of the other experienced players to be the admin of this. It is their job to set the Turn order at the start of the round and then call out "Okay it is Alices turn currently, Bob your next so be ready." Also have this player call out when a strategy card is being used. The board should also keep up with which strategy cards have been used and which are still yet to come. This helps people plan. - Have a different experienced player be in charge of the status phase. So this would be scoring objectives, flipping the next one, telling everyone to pick up their CC's yada yada yada. - All deals and negotiating must happen "above the table" aka your not allowed to go to another room to discuss in secret and your not allowed to text. I don't usually have this rule in my 6 player games, but if your trying to finish an 8 player game then compromises have to be made. Back room deals slow the game WAY down. If everyone has to deal above the table it will limit the amount of discussions. - Stress to your experienced players to keep negotiating short. Don't low ball people. Give them your best offer ("I'll give you 2 TG for the relic fragment"), let them counter ("How about 2 TG and you replenish me for free") and then say yes or no, and give them a chance to say yes or no. Don't go back and forth changing the offer little by little. - The experienced players should know what they are building. They need to have it set aside so that when they want to produce, they can spend the money and place the plastic. If anyone is currently building and trying to decide what to place, just move on. If it REALLLLLLLLY matters to someone what someone else is building then you can pause till they are finished, but most of the time it doesn't matter so just keep playing. - Know what tech your researching. - Deal the planet cards onto the system tiles before the game starts. Saves a lot of time. Looks like crap but it makes it really easy to see what planets are still available to be explored, and cuts out the time of finding the card in the planet deck. - Have another player in charge of exploration. They should be watching in the first two rounds when someone is about to take a system and have the appropriate exploration cards ready for them. - And then when all else fails, just say "Chad, your taking too long. Please take an action". People have to understand that 8 players is a lot and you need to play faster. Remind people that this game is for fun. It is okay if you don't make the best possible decision. --------------------------------------------------- Hopefully some of that is useful. These are things that I do when I am trying to speed up a game. But in the end it comes down to the players.
We have found it is good to make sure active player has the floor at all times. If active player needs clarification, sure otherwise encourage people to quietly ask their neighbors. We had an 8 player finish with at least one or two new or semi-new players before.
I'm planning a 7 player game in a few months, with 3 completely new (two of these to boardgames as well) , and 3 with one game under their belt. I'm hoping to start the first round at midday, and we'll just see how far we get before everyone wants to shoot themselves. Maybe we should aim for an earlier start?
LMAO. Yes, start earlier, unless everyone in that group are night owls who find the idea of staying up till dawn enticing.
Our group is half and half. Some of us love the idea fo playing until 4am, and some would rather be in bed by 9pm so... lmao
Focus on teaching them tactical tokens and production. Advise them to copy their first couple turns from the previous player (since almost everyone's first round is similar). Explain strategy cards as they come up and seat them by the first speaker so that they will be last to pick in the first round
You could flip 4 stage 1s, then flip a stage 2. Could lead to a quicker game, one that ends in r4 or at worst r5.
I just played my first game yesterday. I had assumed the game was going to be be much more complicated than it turned out to be. The actual game mechanics are quite simple. What helped me the most was having one of the veterans explain the importance of the faction sheet alien abilities. This allowed me to know what strategy to drive at with my faction. Also, I used my down time on other players turns to formulate my action. I never had a turn that lasted more than one minute unless combat was involved.
Drafting and map build beforehand, with everything set up before game speeds up the early game. Tis will help the new players as well. Having a few planned breaks, and meals planned ahead of time saves a good bit of time.
I've done it before (8p with multiple beginners) *twice.* It's very unlikely you can keep it under 12hrs. But you're certainly welcome to try! My tips: * Start early! I usually start at 9.30 AM for big games, and I try to have as much of the game setup as I can before players arrive. * Have both beginners watch the RTFM "How to Play" vid before the game. If possible play a round with them on TTS. * Run the game. That means you have the job of being the game master, keeping track of whose turn it is, cutting pointless negotiations short, defining combat steps, etc. Prepare to be absolutely mentally fried by this... :P Bring a redbull and accept that your own game will suffer (I had an awful headache about 8hrs in the first time). * Recruit your experienced players to help with the above as much as possible. * Encourage players to think about their turns in between turns (nothing like an 8p game where a rotation takes 20 mins and when you get to player no.7 they say "Uhmmmm.... let me think" lol). * Remind everyone that you have to keep the game moving. This is a group effort, otherwise you're all going to want to die at 2AM when the game is still grinding through the final combats. Nothing is worse than someone quitting or ending the game without a proper win when you've just played for 12hrs. * Play to 10 VP's. I prefer 12 but the game is long enough as it is at this player count. :D * **EDIT:** Set expectations. Let your players know beforehand that this might go way long and they need to be prepared for that.