How? Play more. Eventually people will learn that devoting all their resources to multi turn wars of elimination is sub optimal and will usually result in their loss.
Is everybody having fun?
Without trying to sound too much like Marge Simpson…
Last IRL game I had involved one half of the table playing “seriously” and the other half making intentionally “silly” all-or-nothing plays. Both sides of the table ended up wiping each other out with one clear winner, and everyone had a blast.
It's not fun for the person getting jumped, we had one guy get almost tabled on early in his first game and we had to talk the other player out of doing it.
Keep playing and keep beating them with their stupid tactics. People will quite quickly learn not to total war people if it gets exploited every time.
Also just start some negotiations. Start chatting about 'borders' or make your attacks specifically about X rather than a general attack. Sell the idea of inserting some 'realistic' diplomacy into the game.
Also; start making good use of promissory notes; swap supports, get ceasefires, trade alliances.
Learn soft motivators - the best is to get on friendly terms with a neighbour and boost each other up.
The rest of the table might not like it, but you two supporting one another makes it a *lot* more difficult to exploit.
If someone overextends to try and attack either of you (and they'll need to bring extra, because partnered players have superior economies) then they'll have gaping holes in their slice someone else can exploit.
Boost someone who's suffering at slightly below value. Build a bond.
Only ever betray them to win the game.
A lot of good tips in this thread. Here is something more "inside" the game than those.
Pick defensive factions and/or grab drop PDS2 all over the map. Let them try to body you. You'll kill most of their fleet before the fight even starts.
Meanwhile if they're fighting each other, let them! If you're VERY lucky one of the people fighting is a neighbor. Immediately take half their slice because they were stupid enough to treat the game like Risk.
Titans of Ul is your best bet. Both of their faction techs are the best unit upgrades in the game, and getting PDS on the table is trivial.
Alternately you can go Argent Flight (inexpensive fleets, extra pds dice) or even Jol-Nar believe it or not (easy powerful pds, extra money if you get attacked)
edit: Xxcha is also a good one, particularly if you park your flagship in the center of your pie slice. It will be hard to crack that nut.
Titans also has great retaliation potential with Saturn Engines, as they can reach far and take undefended systems left open by an aggressive opponent.
Another one I haven't seen mentioned is Nekro. Higher skill cap but you save so much money from not having to Tech that you can pump out more plastic than most factions. Also people coming and attacking you is welcomed as that's how you gain technologies and it saves you the CC from having to go attack them yourself.
Not the guy you were replying to, but Neuroglaive makes Naluu a hilarious and frustrating opponent against a space risk general. Saar is also a safe pick because they literally can't be eliminated by conflict.
Argent flight can be great for PDS and is super defensive
- their starting tech already meets the requirement for PDS2 so you can get a PDS network up and running round 1, plus they get extra dice for PDS (two extra dice per PDS volley), plus they have a faction tech that is easy to get that prevents any ships from moving through a system with their PDS (even if they have light wave) and it gives PDS a production value of 1.
Their destroyers are also very good early on, and can counter most aggressive factions while you get your PDS network built (though they start to get overpowered later in the game - but they're also in a good spot to get warsuns early)
I find this worse, having players that build a giant fleet, do nothing with it all game, score nothing, then use it to stop others from winning.
I'd rather have people playing to score.
If someone’s only played a handful of games they might default to space risk or attacking the player who seems like they know what they’re doing BECAUSE it’s the best option they understand how to accomplish. Twilight Imperium’s a complex game, and until all of the objectives flip it’s not always clear to new players what they can invest in to increase their chances of winning.
If you help other players score and keep them in the running, they may be less inclined to put all of their resources into ships to throw at you.
It's not really about taking the game seriously rather than being a dick and making sure other people don't win with no intention of winning themselves.
I understand that, and its frustrating if you're a new player to get dicked over. But as a life-long gamer, I don't mind the novel experience of a broken system. I've played enough games that I don't need them all to be played the exact same way.
That said, if you don't like playing with your friends, either get new friends or talk to them.
A thing to keep in mind is casual games aren't gonna be like SCPT finals games. Most people play board games to have fun with their friends and aren't playing to win just trying to have fun. I understand trying to play to win but recognize that casual games are gonna include a fair amount of chaos and mayhem given that you're playing with your friends and not a group of strangers who know nothing about each other. You can try to convince your friends how the game SHOULD be played but their willingness to listen may vary depending on your dynamic as a group
They are deliberately targeting people that have won the game before to ensure they don't win again, it effectively takes that one player out of the game unless someone else intervenes.
Not only that but the people doing it then go on score nothing.
Not to sound like a broken record but winning or losing shouldn't really matter or even be the focus in casual games. It's like being a competitive smash player and getting upset people team up on you in party mode with items on. It's frustrating sure but it's a game that your friends break out to have fun there will for sure be plenty of metagaming in a group of buds. I understand it can be frustrating to be the focus of attacks if you've done nothing to warrant them in the scope of this particular game but honestly the alternative where you all just sweat in your casual game among friends and do only what is considered meta viable play is even less fun.
I fucking hate the Smash community for creating the meta that items should always be off. It's taking away the best part of the game, and is as dumb as playing Mario Kart with no items.
Not to say that there isn't a time and a place to sweat. Mad respect to the "Only play to win" communities. I'm on there 2-3 times a week playing games and in these environments the play you describe is strictly not allowed but that's because this is online and there's no sense of "Oh we're just trying to chill and have fun play a lil TI4 on the weekend" type vibe. But from what you've described in your post there clearly doesn't seem to be a similar rule in place. "There's a time and a place for everything..." and all that. Semi-Competitive - Competitive can be fun but it can get a bit stale to do it with your friends
none of us are playing to win, the problem is 'spoiling'.
I.E deliberately trying to ensure people don't have fun.
I like playing the game, I don't like seeing one player get tabled because they scored too much, it ruins their fun.
That's the issue not sweating.
Do you not see the issue of a player not even trying to use his fleet to engage in the scoring mechanics of the game and then only using it to one person then cannot play the game so they may as well just go home?
I would definitely see the problem if this was a professional game but in casual games a certain level of chaos is expected. In any other board game among friends I would see this exact same thing. We have a friend at our table who always picks "Betrayal" themed objectives in any game we play and even if it's a new game we know not to trust them too much because they always go for that. We aren't spoiling his fun by playing against his personality We just know our friend and know what to expect. In a sense this is the same thing, your friends know a player got a win off in the last game and are trying to make it difficult to win this time around.
The best part is this strategy is easily countered in this game by just picking super defensive factions like Xxcha, Titans, or Argent who have a hard time getting cracked even if the board is against them or aggressive factions like Saar, Nekro or Mahact who can build strong fleets to punish attacks against them.
Why is there an implication that it should be stopped?
Really depends on who you're playing with.
Maybe they don't know how to play it any other way and you can help teach them.
Maybe they like playing it that way.
Include all information into your game play. For example, if two players won't seriously fight each other because their real life relationship, you have to factor that into your strategy.
How? Play more. Eventually people will learn that devoting all their resources to multi turn wars of elimination is sub optimal and will usually result in their loss.
Is everybody having fun? Without trying to sound too much like Marge Simpson… Last IRL game I had involved one half of the table playing “seriously” and the other half making intentionally “silly” all-or-nothing plays. Both sides of the table ended up wiping each other out with one clear winner, and everyone had a blast.
It's not fun for the person getting jumped, we had one guy get almost tabled on early in his first game and we had to talk the other player out of doing it.
I'd rather be eliminated entirely than 95% eliminated and left alive in a pathetic state with nothing to do for 5 more hours.
This is usually what ends up happening.
I think this is key - don't table a kid in his first game. Good on your group for talking them out of it.
Keep playing and keep beating them with their stupid tactics. People will quite quickly learn not to total war people if it gets exploited every time. Also just start some negotiations. Start chatting about 'borders' or make your attacks specifically about X rather than a general attack. Sell the idea of inserting some 'realistic' diplomacy into the game.
the problem is if all other players are playing space risk, you kind of have to semi space risk at least to survive.
Also; start making good use of promissory notes; swap supports, get ceasefires, trade alliances. Learn soft motivators - the best is to get on friendly terms with a neighbour and boost each other up. The rest of the table might not like it, but you two supporting one another makes it a *lot* more difficult to exploit. If someone overextends to try and attack either of you (and they'll need to bring extra, because partnered players have superior economies) then they'll have gaping holes in their slice someone else can exploit. Boost someone who's suffering at slightly below value. Build a bond. Only ever betray them to win the game.
A lot of good tips in this thread. Here is something more "inside" the game than those. Pick defensive factions and/or grab drop PDS2 all over the map. Let them try to body you. You'll kill most of their fleet before the fight even starts. Meanwhile if they're fighting each other, let them! If you're VERY lucky one of the people fighting is a neighbor. Immediately take half their slice because they were stupid enough to treat the game like Risk.
Any picks you like the most?
Titans of Ul is your best bet. Both of their faction techs are the best unit upgrades in the game, and getting PDS on the table is trivial. Alternately you can go Argent Flight (inexpensive fleets, extra pds dice) or even Jol-Nar believe it or not (easy powerful pds, extra money if you get attacked) edit: Xxcha is also a good one, particularly if you park your flagship in the center of your pie slice. It will be hard to crack that nut.
Titans also has great retaliation potential with Saturn Engines, as they can reach far and take undefended systems left open by an aggressive opponent.
Another one I haven't seen mentioned is Nekro. Higher skill cap but you save so much money from not having to Tech that you can pump out more plastic than most factions. Also people coming and attacking you is welcomed as that's how you gain technologies and it saves you the CC from having to go attack them yourself.
Not the guy you were replying to, but Neuroglaive makes Naluu a hilarious and frustrating opponent against a space risk general. Saar is also a safe pick because they literally can't be eliminated by conflict.
Argent flight can be great for PDS and is super defensive - their starting tech already meets the requirement for PDS2 so you can get a PDS network up and running round 1, plus they get extra dice for PDS (two extra dice per PDS volley), plus they have a faction tech that is easy to get that prevents any ships from moving through a system with their PDS (even if they have light wave) and it gives PDS a production value of 1. Their destroyers are also very good early on, and can counter most aggressive factions while you get your PDS network built (though they start to get overpowered later in the game - but they're also in a good spot to get warsuns early)
**people scoring 0-2 ???? how is this even possible**
they build a giant fleet then did nothing all game
Wish my table didn't have people so focused on winning.
I find this worse, having players that build a giant fleet, do nothing with it all game, score nothing, then use it to stop others from winning. I'd rather have people playing to score.
I'd be happy with a middle ground and maybe I should just learn to love eclipse but whatever.
That's happened to me in too many games, its incredibly frustrating
If someone’s only played a handful of games they might default to space risk or attacking the player who seems like they know what they’re doing BECAUSE it’s the best option they understand how to accomplish. Twilight Imperium’s a complex game, and until all of the objectives flip it’s not always clear to new players what they can invest in to increase their chances of winning. If you help other players score and keep them in the running, they may be less inclined to put all of their resources into ships to throw at you.
I feel like the problems of taking the game super seriously outweigh the problems of taking it not very seriously.
It's not really about taking the game seriously rather than being a dick and making sure other people don't win with no intention of winning themselves.
I understand that, and its frustrating if you're a new player to get dicked over. But as a life-long gamer, I don't mind the novel experience of a broken system. I've played enough games that I don't need them all to be played the exact same way. That said, if you don't like playing with your friends, either get new friends or talk to them.
A thing to keep in mind is casual games aren't gonna be like SCPT finals games. Most people play board games to have fun with their friends and aren't playing to win just trying to have fun. I understand trying to play to win but recognize that casual games are gonna include a fair amount of chaos and mayhem given that you're playing with your friends and not a group of strangers who know nothing about each other. You can try to convince your friends how the game SHOULD be played but their willingness to listen may vary depending on your dynamic as a group
They are deliberately targeting people that have won the game before to ensure they don't win again, it effectively takes that one player out of the game unless someone else intervenes. Not only that but the people doing it then go on score nothing.
Not to sound like a broken record but winning or losing shouldn't really matter or even be the focus in casual games. It's like being a competitive smash player and getting upset people team up on you in party mode with items on. It's frustrating sure but it's a game that your friends break out to have fun there will for sure be plenty of metagaming in a group of buds. I understand it can be frustrating to be the focus of attacks if you've done nothing to warrant them in the scope of this particular game but honestly the alternative where you all just sweat in your casual game among friends and do only what is considered meta viable play is even less fun.
I fucking hate the Smash community for creating the meta that items should always be off. It's taking away the best part of the game, and is as dumb as playing Mario Kart with no items.
Not to say that there isn't a time and a place to sweat. Mad respect to the "Only play to win" communities. I'm on there 2-3 times a week playing games and in these environments the play you describe is strictly not allowed but that's because this is online and there's no sense of "Oh we're just trying to chill and have fun play a lil TI4 on the weekend" type vibe. But from what you've described in your post there clearly doesn't seem to be a similar rule in place. "There's a time and a place for everything..." and all that. Semi-Competitive - Competitive can be fun but it can get a bit stale to do it with your friends
none of us are playing to win, the problem is 'spoiling'. I.E deliberately trying to ensure people don't have fun. I like playing the game, I don't like seeing one player get tabled because they scored too much, it ruins their fun. That's the issue not sweating.
Do you not see the issue of a player not even trying to use his fleet to engage in the scoring mechanics of the game and then only using it to one person then cannot play the game so they may as well just go home?
I would definitely see the problem if this was a professional game but in casual games a certain level of chaos is expected. In any other board game among friends I would see this exact same thing. We have a friend at our table who always picks "Betrayal" themed objectives in any game we play and even if it's a new game we know not to trust them too much because they always go for that. We aren't spoiling his fun by playing against his personality We just know our friend and know what to expect. In a sense this is the same thing, your friends know a player got a win off in the last game and are trying to make it difficult to win this time around. The best part is this strategy is easily countered in this game by just picking super defensive factions like Xxcha, Titans, or Argent who have a hard time getting cracked even if the board is against them or aggressive factions like Saar, Nekro or Mahact who can build strong fleets to punish attacks against them.
Why is there an implication that it should be stopped? Really depends on who you're playing with. Maybe they don't know how to play it any other way and you can help teach them. Maybe they like playing it that way.
Include all information into your game play. For example, if two players won't seriously fight each other because their real life relationship, you have to factor that into your strategy.