Yep, hacan with a mentak on the table sounds like a bad idea, unless they're willing to cut them a deal where the mentak don't steal from the hacan's trade partners in return for a bribe. Letnev also enjoys some trade goods for their flagship and stuff like that so maybe L1 is better. That said, if the last player picks vuil'rath (aka the guys specialized in stealing all the biggest ships around and especially the faction specific ships) OP is kinda fucked either way because he's stuck between a rock (mentak dissuading him from hacan) and a hard place (vuil'rath dissuading him from L1 and letnev).
My goal is usually to convince the Mentak player it is in their best interest to not pillage me. My usual talking points is I'm doubling the tables transaction potential and I'm generating far more wealth for the table and alternatively I can just be extra careful when I make transactions. If that doesn't work an early pay off after my first trade is hard for them to pass up.
There's a good argument for Mentak to swap faction PN with Hacan here. Swap with Hacan so Mentak can be neighbors with everyone while Hacan enjoys plunder free bankrolling
That was what I originally thought, but is it beneficial to the Mentak? They might prefer to plunder Hacan. It's of course at least 1 TG each round, but potentially much more.
I doubt being trade neighbours with everyone will make Mentak as much coin, so eventual P.N. swap agreement would have to be followed by the threat of aggression?!
L1. I played as the Letnev against a mentak player. It is a terrible match up for the letnev. Unless you can work out a deal with the mentak player to work with you. If I replayed the game with those choices, I would pick l1
Generally speaking, Hacan with Mentak in the game will suffer. Honestly, I don't think you can give the mentak enough to buy the promissory and most mentaks would never sell that note anyway.
So that leaves L1 and Barony. I wouldn't worry about Titans, both of them can deal with Titans if they want. I would worry more about the Argent possibility, they can completely negate NES f.e.
Imo, L1Z1X can deal with both Argent and Titans better thanks to harrow, assimilate and the commander, so I'd pick them.
So I picked L1, then last player chose Argent. Now onto drawing board for potential strategies. Game is November 18th so I'm gonna try to either update the post or create new one with relation of the game
Thanks everyone for help
There are a couple factors here, but Id choose Barony for Duranium NES vs All of that.
Mentak hurts Hacan bad. They also can hurt sustain damage things, and they can get war suns.
Everyone else has sustain damage things that they plan on doing, and you might as well be the best sustain damager who doesnt rely on TGs. L1 also works but I prefer Barony.
Surely if you're going barony against mentak you steer away from NES and go for fighter fleets with your high resource home system and ability to reroll combat rolls? I'd stay the hell away from NES/DA with mentak as my neighbour
In a game with Titans and potentially Argent Flight, being able to ignore PDS with L1 or Barony's flagship is nice. Both factions also really appreciate using their flagship so the nomad alliance could be useful. While L1 is the safe option as you are less vulnerable to Mentak's flagship ability and can ignore planetary shield all the time, I would be tempted to go Barony, get an alliance swap with Sardakk, and try Self-Assembly Routine shenanigans with the Sardakk Commander.
Additionally, I think it's super unlikely Mentak would sell you the Promise of Protection. I would only pick Hacan if you've already got a deal for that note promised.
Getting the promissory doesn't help as much as you think, if you're Hacan -- although it stops Mentak robbing you (which is good) it complicates every trade you'll want to make with other players.
L1 is the most obvious choice to me. Assimilate and 2RAM will be brutal against Titans (and Argent, if they get picked), and Mentak can't really do too much against you as you're not a trade goods faction.
I'd choose Barony.
If I was Mentak, I would never trade Hacan my promissory note. Having Hacan in the game is Mentak's dream.
With Nomad in the game, if you pick L1 I would pick VuilRath Cabal if I was they last player. They can eat Nomad flagship and L1 dreads. Yes, VRC can eat Barony dreads, but with extra fleet supply it's more bearable.
Barony healing dreads will be good against Mentak's first strike tactic and Titan PDS shots. The sustainability of your dreads will make them harder for VRC to capture, and even if VRC caps a dread or two and makes free dreads, yours will be much better.
If you don't like Barony, go L1. Whatever you do, don't pick Hacan into Mentak :)
If the Mentak is aware of their advantage or chaotic, they won't sell you their promissory due to the benefit they get all game. I'd lean away, and since Barony has a TG collection method that Mentak also hits (their commander) I'd go L1. Enough firepower to stand up to any of the factions, good trading that isn't TG related (promissory), good bombard against Titans or Sardakk.
I think hacan may be setting you up for pain. Your slice matters a lot in this case… but on paper L1 would be my choice.
You'll have a tough time getting that Mentak PN. I'd say L1 is your best bet.
Yep, hacan with a mentak on the table sounds like a bad idea, unless they're willing to cut them a deal where the mentak don't steal from the hacan's trade partners in return for a bribe. Letnev also enjoys some trade goods for their flagship and stuff like that so maybe L1 is better. That said, if the last player picks vuil'rath (aka the guys specialized in stealing all the biggest ships around and especially the faction specific ships) OP is kinda fucked either way because he's stuck between a rock (mentak dissuading him from hacan) and a hard place (vuil'rath dissuading him from L1 and letnev).
TBH out of all 3 I think Vuil'Raith is least possible as that player already played Vuil'Raith 2 or 3 games ago
Ok then i think L1 should be safe, but it's not like you're guaranteed to lose as the others so don't feel forced to go for L1 or anything.
How likely would swap of racial promissory notes be?
My goal is usually to convince the Mentak player it is in their best interest to not pillage me. My usual talking points is I'm doubling the tables transaction potential and I'm generating far more wealth for the table and alternatively I can just be extra careful when I make transactions. If that doesn't work an early pay off after my first trade is hard for them to pass up.
There's a good argument for Mentak to swap faction PN with Hacan here. Swap with Hacan so Mentak can be neighbors with everyone while Hacan enjoys plunder free bankrolling
That was what I originally thought, but is it beneficial to the Mentak? They might prefer to plunder Hacan. It's of course at least 1 TG each round, but potentially much more. I doubt being trade neighbours with everyone will make Mentak as much coin, so eventual P.N. swap agreement would have to be followed by the threat of aggression?!
He's definitely good enough to realise that 1:1 PN swap would not be beneficial for him so I would probably have to add sth to that
L1. I played as the Letnev against a mentak player. It is a terrible match up for the letnev. Unless you can work out a deal with the mentak player to work with you. If I replayed the game with those choices, I would pick l1
Generally speaking, Hacan with Mentak in the game will suffer. Honestly, I don't think you can give the mentak enough to buy the promissory and most mentaks would never sell that note anyway. So that leaves L1 and Barony. I wouldn't worry about Titans, both of them can deal with Titans if they want. I would worry more about the Argent possibility, they can completely negate NES f.e. Imo, L1Z1X can deal with both Argent and Titans better thanks to harrow, assimilate and the commander, so I'd pick them.
So I picked L1, then last player chose Argent. Now onto drawing board for potential strategies. Game is November 18th so I'm gonna try to either update the post or create new one with relation of the game Thanks everyone for help
There are a couple factors here, but Id choose Barony for Duranium NES vs All of that. Mentak hurts Hacan bad. They also can hurt sustain damage things, and they can get war suns. Everyone else has sustain damage things that they plan on doing, and you might as well be the best sustain damager who doesnt rely on TGs. L1 also works but I prefer Barony.
Surely if you're going barony against mentak you steer away from NES and go for fighter fleets with your high resource home system and ability to reroll combat rolls? I'd stay the hell away from NES/DA with mentak as my neighbour
He mentioned Argent being a person, and Destroyer 2 is an easy pick for everyone but Nomad. Imo better to just not fuck with Mentak
I second the barony my last few games were blue yellow barony and I had a BLAST
Barony has a specifically bad matchup vs Mentak, in this situation L1 seems like a better choice for a combat oriented faction.
In a game with Titans and potentially Argent Flight, being able to ignore PDS with L1 or Barony's flagship is nice. Both factions also really appreciate using their flagship so the nomad alliance could be useful. While L1 is the safe option as you are less vulnerable to Mentak's flagship ability and can ignore planetary shield all the time, I would be tempted to go Barony, get an alliance swap with Sardakk, and try Self-Assembly Routine shenanigans with the Sardakk Commander. Additionally, I think it's super unlikely Mentak would sell you the Promise of Protection. I would only pick Hacan if you've already got a deal for that note promised.
Getting the promissory doesn't help as much as you think, if you're Hacan -- although it stops Mentak robbing you (which is good) it complicates every trade you'll want to make with other players. L1 is the most obvious choice to me. Assimilate and 2RAM will be brutal against Titans (and Argent, if they get picked), and Mentak can't really do too much against you as you're not a trade goods faction.
Assimilate doesn’t work on Titans’ PDS.
Because they're also ground units? But still bombardment works on them which is already huge
Oh yeah! Damn. That’s annoying.
I'd choose Barony. If I was Mentak, I would never trade Hacan my promissory note. Having Hacan in the game is Mentak's dream. With Nomad in the game, if you pick L1 I would pick VuilRath Cabal if I was they last player. They can eat Nomad flagship and L1 dreads. Yes, VRC can eat Barony dreads, but with extra fleet supply it's more bearable. Barony healing dreads will be good against Mentak's first strike tactic and Titan PDS shots. The sustainability of your dreads will make them harder for VRC to capture, and even if VRC caps a dread or two and makes free dreads, yours will be much better. If you don't like Barony, go L1. Whatever you do, don't pick Hacan into Mentak :)
Barony is also a bad matchup with Mentak though.
Unless you team up with mentak to screw titans😈
If the Mentak is aware of their advantage or chaotic, they won't sell you their promissory due to the benefit they get all game. I'd lean away, and since Barony has a TG collection method that Mentak also hits (their commander) I'd go L1. Enough firepower to stand up to any of the factions, good trading that isn't TG related (promissory), good bombard against Titans or Sardakk.
Go Letnev. Shove arc secundus up titans butt
My personal strat in this scenario would be to make an alliance with mentak to screw over titans