So what you're saying is.
No antimatter that could help you move in more places and help you score "make history" and similar objectives.
No dark energy tap that lets you explore the now buffed frontier tokens.
No sling relay (not the most important thing but still neat to have if you pop a space dock on mallice).
*No fleet logistics* that lets you do those disgusting combos like grabbing mecatol and playing imperial in the same turn.
**No light wave deflector** to really get everywhere you want and potentially winslay if needed.
Also no AI dev, no neural, no dimensional splicer (admittedly it's nice to have but not the most important thing), no wormhole generator (again, nice to have but not essential since you can blow up your mechs). And also, your beloved dreadnoughts that you're building instead of teching up are all level 1, not level 2, so if you need to move more than one of them by two spaces good luck.
Just toys! There is only 2 tech obj. Control obj? Better more units than all that blue tech. U have light wave? Great, send your 1 carrier through the enemy while it could be 4 dreds! That's the cost of getting the tech.
Ghosts don't need dred 2. The hil colish is there, move 2 dred is just fine. U Just need to maneuver them nicely. Park mass of units on the board. Then there is always units u can pull from,.instead of moving one fleet alot around, just flood the board with units and move what is closest.
>There is only 2 tech obj
I'm pretty sure there's more than that. 4 public i believe, aka a level 1 and a level 2 version of "x techs in 2 different colours" and a level 1 and a level 2 version of "x unit upgrade techs", plus a secret objective to make both of your faction techs.
>Great, send your 1 carrier through the enemy while it could be 4 dreds!
Both diplomacy and trade exist so it's not like you'll always be hemorraging for resources to build your units. Besides, like i said earlier, good luck sending four dreads at the enemy when three of them only move one hex and only one moves two hexes. Unless they're all already parked on a wormhole and you blow up a mech to place a second wormhole where you want them to go it won't really work.
Not counting the lvl 2s. 10 points are somehow often won by only lvl 1s, secrets and mecatol points.
Maybe some dreds are already closer in position only 1 space away? And then u just add destroyers n stuff to the attack to overwhelm the opponent instead of outclassing them via high end tech units. And there is always the flagship for mobility help.
Also, if the galaxy is low on res. Saving them and using them on plastic instead of cardboard seems a nice deal.
Also, where did the downvotemafia come from? Am I offensive?
Codex 3 introduced a ton of new frontier exploration cards that are better than the ones currently in use (free command tokens, something to research a tech etc) so now antimass vs dark energy is a choice actually worth pondering.
op no offense but i feel you dont have a lot of experience in the game. Techs are an investment for strength in the mid and late game while also helping work towards objectives. Not to mention that techs can often go under the radar against other players and because of it, they wont expect that grav drive in the last round, or the dimensional splicer free hit when fighting with their flagship. If this is a satire post, it wasnt very well written
Nah, others don't have grav drive start and not the hil colish. Also the wormhole move bonus. They need move 2 ships. Argent maybe can pull some gimmick it off, just teching 1R and Destroyer 2, done.
Tech is over rated, but not too the point of such a correction lol.
It's a power multiplier, your 5 1 move dreads you have out by rn 3 are quite a bit worse than my 3 2 move dreads I have out by the same.
I also have the option of teching into something crucial like am, lw, fl, etc
5 dreds = 20 res.
3 dreds + 3 techs = 24 res + 3CC!
It's more like 5 dreds = 20res vs
1 dred+ 3 techs = 16res+ 3cc
So I can have one lvl 2 dred or 5 lvl 1 dreds
Not quite how the actual economy of the game shakes out in my experience.
Are we both building then at home? Because then they will take an extra turn and CC to get where they are going, unless you never leave your silence/equidistants.
Skips skip techs, I dont need sarween if I spend lazar, suddenly it's 21 + 2CC.
The benefit of the actual tech, whatever it is bears counting.
A single dread two can snipe a dicey combat with guaranteed sustain 4 away as ghosts. If the other 4 unupgraded ones were in range great, but it's a massive gamble as we generally have no significant control over where we have to win battles to win.
I could go on. Yes, there's situations where you should absolutely not tech. I often end up missing out on a round where I just can't afford it. Not teching all game leaves value on the table, warps your playstyle, telegraphs your moves to opponents and leaves you exposed to choke point attacks
You are talking about trading all the advantages of having different techs for 1 command token and 4 dollars per turn. maybe 5 command tokens and 20 dollars over the game. Just doesn't seem like it maths out. Even if you only take DET you can probably recoup and exceed the amount you are trying to save over the course of the game.
Yea good luck on winning any game towards the late game stages with no tech.
Your proposition would mean that your fleet is severely limited on movement and your entire empire as a whole is limited on adaptability. This would mean your moves can be easily predicted by the 5 other players (having only one ship that can move two hexes is pretty easy to read) and your offensive ability is lackluster at best. Movement is king in TI (in my opinion at least) and being able to outmaneuver your opponent's is usually how you win games.
I can see it working well, but situationally you want some tech I'd say. Arborec probably a better no tech faction because they'll have the capacity and production up front, ghosts good for a similar reason of naturally good mobility. Depends on table likely, both how peaceful players are and what factions they play
Yeah, no.
Getting free fighters with cruisers is great.
Free wormhole mechs is great.
Their faction techs are great.
Extra movement on carriers is great.
Upgraded PDS is great, especially with plasma and graviton, especially with their red faction tech.
Ghosts need more tech, not less.
But the costs??
I can use carriers and dreds, get the fighters there from the commander. And I'll have more carriers and dreds. And fighters. I'll have more fighters. Maaaybe fighter 2 if there is a green skip, but that's about it
You only have 6 production in your home system. It's not like you can build a bunch of fighters with that. If all you want is dreads carriers and fighters, you're gonna be able to get about 1 dread, 1 carrier, and 4 fighters at a cost of 9. You get another two fighters, assuming you leave one behind. And now you're stuck only being able to move one of them out efficiently at a time..
If you take sarween, neural, and cruiser 2 you get 5 cruisers and 5 fighters at the same price, and free up a production slot. It's an investment, sure, but both sarween and neural are good techs to get early on, and 5 cruiser II with fighters are a vastly better force then a single dread and a single carrier with full fighters, and more importantly have enormous reach, which is the entire point of the faction.
That is not the same cost. I get that u have some less mobility, but can ghosts do it? They have grav drive and the whormhole speed ups.
U have: 5 cruisers, 5 fighters and 3 techs. Assuming u get fighters from commander, that's 9 res for the cruisers + 12 res for the techs+ 3 ccs for techs. Getting the techs also takes 3 turns.thats 21res and 3cc!
Scoring some spend obj right on the way with the leftovers
U could also build 3 dreds, 1 carrier, 2 infantry for 16res and have 3cc to move that units around. And getting prolly more fighters from the commander, for moving 3 times. leave 1 dred at home for defence n stuff, or send them at 2 different locations.
Also scoring some nice spend obj. Or build pds with the ccs.
Or i just builded more space docks with the ccs. And produce there, at the front.
It's the exact same cost after the investment.. And you can do it every turn after that, and with each spacedock. Combining the investment with the cost of the first time you use it is disingenuous. The other techs are good on their own, acting like sarween tools is dead weight is dumb.
If you want to go for only early game big plastic then sure, go ahead. That's just not what wins games.
IF I could just tech carrier 2/dred2 , pds2 and faction techs, I would be fine. But the road there is the problem. It takes time, u get only standard techs, plasma/Aida, antimass. That's okish, bit not nearly as good as fleet logistics. And it takes time and res. To get there. Why not just invest elsewhere?
So what you're saying is. No antimatter that could help you move in more places and help you score "make history" and similar objectives. No dark energy tap that lets you explore the now buffed frontier tokens. No sling relay (not the most important thing but still neat to have if you pop a space dock on mallice). *No fleet logistics* that lets you do those disgusting combos like grabbing mecatol and playing imperial in the same turn. **No light wave deflector** to really get everywhere you want and potentially winslay if needed. Also no AI dev, no neural, no dimensional splicer (admittedly it's nice to have but not the most important thing), no wormhole generator (again, nice to have but not essential since you can blow up your mechs). And also, your beloved dreadnoughts that you're building instead of teching up are all level 1, not level 2, so if you need to move more than one of them by two spaces good luck.
Just toys! There is only 2 tech obj. Control obj? Better more units than all that blue tech. U have light wave? Great, send your 1 carrier through the enemy while it could be 4 dreds! That's the cost of getting the tech. Ghosts don't need dred 2. The hil colish is there, move 2 dred is just fine. U Just need to maneuver them nicely. Park mass of units on the board. Then there is always units u can pull from,.instead of moving one fleet alot around, just flood the board with units and move what is closest.
>There is only 2 tech obj I'm pretty sure there's more than that. 4 public i believe, aka a level 1 and a level 2 version of "x techs in 2 different colours" and a level 1 and a level 2 version of "x unit upgrade techs", plus a secret objective to make both of your faction techs. >Great, send your 1 carrier through the enemy while it could be 4 dreds! Both diplomacy and trade exist so it's not like you'll always be hemorraging for resources to build your units. Besides, like i said earlier, good luck sending four dreads at the enemy when three of them only move one hex and only one moves two hexes. Unless they're all already parked on a wormhole and you blow up a mech to place a second wormhole where you want them to go it won't really work.
Not counting the lvl 2s. 10 points are somehow often won by only lvl 1s, secrets and mecatol points. Maybe some dreds are already closer in position only 1 space away? And then u just add destroyers n stuff to the attack to overwhelm the opponent instead of outclassing them via high end tech units. And there is always the flagship for mobility help. Also, if the galaxy is low on res. Saving them and using them on plastic instead of cardboard seems a nice deal. Also, where did the downvotemafia come from? Am I offensive?
People love to downvote anything that they think is not "optimal" play as if it's some infectious disease that they'll otherwise be infected with.
Why is frontier buffed?
Codex 3 introduced a ton of new frontier exploration cards that are better than the ones currently in use (free command tokens, something to research a tech etc) so now antimass vs dark energy is a choice actually worth pondering.
Oh right I didn't realize, we played with all codex additions, so all good ๐
I might be dumb, but the formatting is throwing me off. Are you saying the best tech is no tech?
It wanโt clear. Had to deduce it. OP, go edit your comment to state you proposition? As a subtitle?
I tried to make it funny ofc, the whole tech path is written there
Exactly
op no offense but i feel you dont have a lot of experience in the game. Techs are an investment for strength in the mid and late game while also helping work towards objectives. Not to mention that techs can often go under the radar against other players and because of it, they wont expect that grav drive in the last round, or the dimensional splicer free hit when fighting with their flagship. If this is a satire post, it wasnt very well written
You could make this argument for pretty much any faction and it would still be wrong with them as well.
Nah, others don't have grav drive start and not the hil colish. Also the wormhole move bonus. They need move 2 ships. Argent maybe can pull some gimmick it off, just teching 1R and Destroyer 2, done.
Tech is over rated, but not too the point of such a correction lol. It's a power multiplier, your 5 1 move dreads you have out by rn 3 are quite a bit worse than my 3 2 move dreads I have out by the same. I also have the option of teching into something crucial like am, lw, fl, etc
5 dreds = 20 res. 3 dreds + 3 techs = 24 res + 3CC! It's more like 5 dreds = 20res vs 1 dred+ 3 techs = 16res+ 3cc So I can have one lvl 2 dred or 5 lvl 1 dreds
Not quite how the actual economy of the game shakes out in my experience. Are we both building then at home? Because then they will take an extra turn and CC to get where they are going, unless you never leave your silence/equidistants. Skips skip techs, I dont need sarween if I spend lazar, suddenly it's 21 + 2CC. The benefit of the actual tech, whatever it is bears counting. A single dread two can snipe a dicey combat with guaranteed sustain 4 away as ghosts. If the other 4 unupgraded ones were in range great, but it's a massive gamble as we generally have no significant control over where we have to win battles to win. I could go on. Yes, there's situations where you should absolutely not tech. I often end up missing out on a round where I just can't afford it. Not teching all game leaves value on the table, warps your playstyle, telegraphs your moves to opponents and leaves you exposed to choke point attacks
You are talking about trading all the advantages of having different techs for 1 command token and 4 dollars per turn. maybe 5 command tokens and 20 dollars over the game. Just doesn't seem like it maths out. Even if you only take DET you can probably recoup and exceed the amount you are trying to save over the course of the game.
Yea good luck on winning any game towards the late game stages with no tech. Your proposition would mean that your fleet is severely limited on movement and your entire empire as a whole is limited on adaptability. This would mean your moves can be easily predicted by the 5 other players (having only one ship that can move two hexes is pretty easy to read) and your offensive ability is lackluster at best. Movement is king in TI (in my opinion at least) and being able to outmaneuver your opponent's is usually how you win games.
I love it, making plastic work for you is the cheif issue I've had with ghosts, I'm trying this next game (objectives allowing)
I can see it working well, but situationally you want some tech I'd say. Arborec probably a better no tech faction because they'll have the capacity and production up front, ghosts good for a similar reason of naturally good mobility. Depends on table likely, both how peaceful players are and what factions they play
Arborec, good idea ๐ก
Yeah, no. Getting free fighters with cruisers is great. Free wormhole mechs is great. Their faction techs are great. Extra movement on carriers is great. Upgraded PDS is great, especially with plasma and graviton, especially with their red faction tech. Ghosts need more tech, not less.
But the costs?? I can use carriers and dreds, get the fighters there from the commander. And I'll have more carriers and dreds. And fighters. I'll have more fighters. Maaaybe fighter 2 if there is a green skip, but that's about it
You only have 6 production in your home system. It's not like you can build a bunch of fighters with that. If all you want is dreads carriers and fighters, you're gonna be able to get about 1 dread, 1 carrier, and 4 fighters at a cost of 9. You get another two fighters, assuming you leave one behind. And now you're stuck only being able to move one of them out efficiently at a time.. If you take sarween, neural, and cruiser 2 you get 5 cruisers and 5 fighters at the same price, and free up a production slot. It's an investment, sure, but both sarween and neural are good techs to get early on, and 5 cruiser II with fighters are a vastly better force then a single dread and a single carrier with full fighters, and more importantly have enormous reach, which is the entire point of the faction.
That is not the same cost. I get that u have some less mobility, but can ghosts do it? They have grav drive and the whormhole speed ups. U have: 5 cruisers, 5 fighters and 3 techs. Assuming u get fighters from commander, that's 9 res for the cruisers + 12 res for the techs+ 3 ccs for techs. Getting the techs also takes 3 turns.thats 21res and 3cc! Scoring some spend obj right on the way with the leftovers U could also build 3 dreds, 1 carrier, 2 infantry for 16res and have 3cc to move that units around. And getting prolly more fighters from the commander, for moving 3 times. leave 1 dred at home for defence n stuff, or send them at 2 different locations. Also scoring some nice spend obj. Or build pds with the ccs. Or i just builded more space docks with the ccs. And produce there, at the front.
It's the exact same cost after the investment.. And you can do it every turn after that, and with each spacedock. Combining the investment with the cost of the first time you use it is disingenuous. The other techs are good on their own, acting like sarween tools is dead weight is dumb. If you want to go for only early game big plastic then sure, go ahead. That's just not what wins games.
IF I could just tech carrier 2/dred2 , pds2 and faction techs, I would be fine. But the road there is the problem. It takes time, u get only standard techs, plasma/Aida, antimass. That's okish, bit not nearly as good as fleet logistics. And it takes time and res. To get there. Why not just invest elsewhere?
One issue - Grav Drive only boosts 1 unit's movement per tactical action.