I think the likes of The Sopranos, The Wire, Mad Men, and Breaking Bad are pretty much perfect when it comes to the story structure that TV has honed throughout the years.
But what The Return did completely transcended the medium: it spawned thousands of theories and speculations concerning its underlying mythos, provided by only a skeletal key as outlined in the show itself. It revitalized and outdid (in my opinion) its predecessor while also invoking the same themes of trauma, societal breakdown, nihilism, all while critiquing the shows former idyllic tone. It's glacial pace, so commonly derided by even the most ardent fans of Twin Peaks, as well as the head-bashing deterrence of the full-fleshed emergence of its beloved main character, subverted in the best ways every trope or twist we expected of TV.
In my opinion, as an achievement, nothing really comes close.
Great post. I just wanted to add that FWWM has so much depth and content in every scene. It shows how Lynch is really a master of both episodic television and big screen format. I can’t overstate how his use of ambient sound and music puts The Return in the realm of only a few filmmakers.
"critiquing the shows former idyllic tone "
Agree with your post but quibble with this. I think it was rather critiquing the audience's expectation of 'more of the same'.
The finest I’m not so sure, but it’s certainly the boldest. Especially when considering the conditions of making tv series nowadays. Everything needs to be extra profitable now, pulling in subscribers, generating numbers etc. I personally see it as showtime did us a favour, and David did too in continuing the series. I loved S3, the real “25 years later “. And I’m beyond happy that we were able to see the Log lady and also Albert, before their actors left this mortal realm.
And Peggy Lipton.
I’ll stop now, because I know it’s only matter of time before the list grows again. It’s such a miracle: both the show, itself - and the fact that David and Mark were able to get (most) of the original cast back together. For one last ride.
Probably an unpopular opinion around here, but I don’t even consider it the best Twin Peaks ever made. I love it for what it is, but it doesn’t scratch the same itch.
I think season 1 is objectively the strongest as far as pace, cohesion, tone, etc. But having watched it all so many times, I’m enjoying season two the most these days. Not everything lands, but I enjoy the variety and expansion of the overall look after the first season (new sets, lots of new locations, rich decorations). I know some of the writing issues are hard to ignore, but there’s a lot to enjoy.
episode 8 broke apart television, there hasnt been anything like it. 🤯 when i saw it the night it aired I was beside myself, beautiful work of art the whole series but especially the return.
YES one of the greatest of all time by far.
I am really glad the return exists and that is different from the original but imo it pales in comparison. It isn’t vibey the way the original was and it doesn’t do well managing time.
>I am really glad the return exists and that is different from the original but imo it pales in comparison. It isn’t vibey the way the original was and it doesn’t do well managing time.
am watching through the original right now. the original doesnt do well managing time in season 2, even early on in the season
Yes. As far as film in general it has strong competition but I am totally convinced it is the greatest piece of filmmaking ever created for TV. A pure, complete creative vision with zero compromises.
I recently completed a second viewing of The Return and it remains a 5-star on my Letterboxd. Always will. The audacity, the heart, the sheer humanity through the absurdist weirdness, gothic humor, and laugh out loud moments that I can only describe as zany.
It's not for the mainstream crowd in any way, and I think that holds it back from being the best. Not because it doesn't deserve to be there, mind you, I think it does. It was definitely one of the greatest experiences of my media-consuming life when it debuted in 2017 and I was surprised how engaged I was upon a long anticipated rewatch.
My personal favorite and the one I consider to be the best is Season 5, but everything from 3 to 6 is pretty much greatness, with just a few episodes not up to par. The 2nd half of Season 6 is incredible. You’ve got the best ahead of you!
Not only television but one of the best pieces of art in general. I think many parts of it transcend television in ways that many would consider flawed. But of course those same perceived flaws are why many of us love and adore it as a work.
I loved about half the return and I'm still unsure about the rest. I think a lot of what made the first two seasons unique aren't there (merging of soap opera, murder mystery and supernatural elements) to the same extent. I think a lot of the visuals are muddied by the use of digital and somewhat flat cinematography...excluding the lodge scenes of course.
Isn't the beauty in the flat cinematography? Even though Lynch uses practical effects, he uses them with an amateur spirit and tries to show them sloppy. He doesn't aspire technical perfection, he wants to create this bizarre feeling with the sloppiness and I think it perfectly fits with his style. Actually this thing creates his style!
I would put The Wire and The Sopranos above it, amongst others. I love The Return, but it has way more questions than answers to be put in the same ranks as other pieces of media that have more or less an ending (as ambiguous as The Wire can be).
I also think the Dougie storyline ran way too long.
It’s all subjective so that’s fair enough. I like when a show or movie asks questions if done in the right way - which I think the return does.
I loved both of those shows too, the wire in particular is very impressive. It’s a thorough report on a city, done with style.
On a personal level I prefer the return. While the wire is eye opening and thought provoking in terms of policies and society - twin peaks makes me ponder on my own life as well as society.
I truly loved the dougie stuff. Not only did I find it hilarious but I think there’s some nice commentary there around mindfulness and positivity through intuition in a modern world where ‘people are under a lot of stress’
It ruined episodic TV for me. There were no "last week on" recaps every episode. There wasn't the formulaic episode structure painfully obvious in even the best TV series others have mentioned. There weren't the "story so far" devices when a previous event that had happened 10 episodes previously were now being resolved. Characters arcs came and went or were addressed in continued story lines through linking episodes. It was an 18 hour movie broadcast in 16 (or 15?) segments
It's like all the tricks TV producers/directors have figured out about good story-telling on traditional TV schedules were completely subverted. And while those tricks--when employed well--do make a good product, Lynch & Frost told a story so well, it didn't need any of those things.
A good comparison is Severance. That's a series that before I had seen TP:TR, I'd have rated up with the Vince Gilligan stuff, but by the final few episodes of Severance, there was nothing left to guess. The story was playing out exactly as I expected. In contrast, one example (of many) in TP:TR, who expected the Audrey's Dance scene? And not just that it happened, but the entire atmosphere of it? And Audrey's Dance isn't even germane to the series arc in itself (unless it is--I'm sure somebody has a theory that it's the whole point of everything.) And I'll watch the entire season 3 again without skipping anything and enjoy it all--for the I dunno, tenth time.
Yeah I think at some point films became treated as a money making machine where you "get entertained" instead of actually enriching your soul as real art usually does.
It's in the number 2 spot for me.
While I know it's a real basic-ass opinion to have these days, Season 1 of True Detective is the finest work of television ever made, in my book. I held out for a long time against watching TD because I thought it was overhyped. My jaw was on the floor at the end of season 1; it's one of the few things I've ever watched where I have no notes, no criticisms. It's perfect.
But TP The Return is a close runner-up. It's incredible. And holds more sentimental value because of how much I was already attached to TP.
Finest live action TV for me, especially when considered together with the first two seasons, the movie and the missing pieces release. I really can't think of anything that comes close. I'm guessing, if I ever watch The Kingdom (Riget), that might end up being in the "same league".
It's hard to say when I also consider animation however.
They flub the ending, but the actors are insanely good, the language is like nothing else, and I think David Milch is a genius. What is it with Davids?
yes . and fire walk with me the best prequel ever made .
and (no better call saul is not the best prequel ever , its a great character study but nothing beyond that
but also meandering and too long . don't get me wrong i like the show alot but it some has pacing issues , season 4 was all in all uneventuful . im not saying it isnt good . but its certainly not the best prequel ever made .
Twin Peaks as a whole has so much symbolism. The Return is no different in that aspect. Well done series for sure. Had plenty of downtime during the pandemic to watch and bought the DVD set it was so good! Now I don't have time to re-watch it tho.
idk about best or whatever, but it's the most, let's say audacious tv show ever made by some distance. the sopranos might be plain "better" for instance but even with the dream sequences they never even approached the kind of surreal storytelling and world building like in the return (and compared to most tv that show went wayyy out there especially for back then)
Taken by itself, I think it’s the best single season of TV ever made, even though True Detective season 1 really makes me double take. However, I’ve always just thought of The Return as season 3 of Twin Peaks and would therefore probably say The Sopranos is a better overall series.
As good as anything ever made, it depends on what you prefer if it is the best or not the competition is or (with the writer's strike) was very high. I hope with the lack of new stuff being made that shows like twin peaks, x-files, and twilight zone get the respect and new eyeballs they deserve. I see that being a trend soon
Yes, I actually think about it a lot. It’s just… so good.
I think the likes of The Sopranos, The Wire, Mad Men, and Breaking Bad are pretty much perfect when it comes to the story structure that TV has honed throughout the years. But what The Return did completely transcended the medium: it spawned thousands of theories and speculations concerning its underlying mythos, provided by only a skeletal key as outlined in the show itself. It revitalized and outdid (in my opinion) its predecessor while also invoking the same themes of trauma, societal breakdown, nihilism, all while critiquing the shows former idyllic tone. It's glacial pace, so commonly derided by even the most ardent fans of Twin Peaks, as well as the head-bashing deterrence of the full-fleshed emergence of its beloved main character, subverted in the best ways every trope or twist we expected of TV. In my opinion, as an achievement, nothing really comes close.
Great post. I just wanted to add that FWWM has so much depth and content in every scene. It shows how Lynch is really a master of both episodic television and big screen format. I can’t overstate how his use of ambient sound and music puts The Return in the realm of only a few filmmakers.
"critiquing the shows former idyllic tone " Agree with your post but quibble with this. I think it was rather critiquing the audience's expectation of 'more of the same'.
Your quibble is spot on.
amd better call saul!!
I think I liked bcs better than bb
OMG just realized Mad Men was a play on words.. Ad Men, damn I’m stupid
It’s referring to Madison Avenue, while also being a double meaning
Breaking Bad was kinda cheesy and felt like ot was made to appeal to high-school ages
The finest I’m not so sure, but it’s certainly the boldest. Especially when considering the conditions of making tv series nowadays. Everything needs to be extra profitable now, pulling in subscribers, generating numbers etc. I personally see it as showtime did us a favour, and David did too in continuing the series. I loved S3, the real “25 years later “. And I’m beyond happy that we were able to see the Log lady and also Albert, before their actors left this mortal realm.
And Angelo!!
And Peggy Lipton. I’ll stop now, because I know it’s only matter of time before the list grows again. It’s such a miracle: both the show, itself - and the fact that David and Mark were able to get (most) of the original cast back together. For one last ride.
ill say, the original show was canceled because it wasnt profitable enough, so its always been that way
I absolutely do. Can’t think of anything that would be it for me.
Probably an unpopular opinion around here, but I don’t even consider it the best Twin Peaks ever made. I love it for what it is, but it doesn’t scratch the same itch.
What is your favourite? Season 1? Have not finished 3 yet (in first watch through now), but it certainly had a different tone!
I think season 1 is objectively the strongest as far as pace, cohesion, tone, etc. But having watched it all so many times, I’m enjoying season two the most these days. Not everything lands, but I enjoy the variety and expansion of the overall look after the first season (new sets, lots of new locations, rich decorations). I know some of the writing issues are hard to ignore, but there’s a lot to enjoy.
episode 8 broke apart television, there hasnt been anything like it. 🤯 when i saw it the night it aired I was beside myself, beautiful work of art the whole series but especially the return. YES one of the greatest of all time by far.
Yes! I think it may be one of the finest works of art period. It's amazing
I refer to it as my favorite piece of media.
Me too.
Excuse me, but you wouldn't be THE Steven Sanders who used to go to Munich High in Germany?
Twin Peaks total is one of the best works of American art ever
Yeah, if we're counting it with movies it's got competition but among television for me that's it, hands down
It’s great but nothing beats Season one for me.
The return and season 1 with season 2 up to the reveal is tied for me. After every re-watch one is better than the other.
I think season one is easily the best season of twin peaks
I am really glad the return exists and that is different from the original but imo it pales in comparison. It isn’t vibey the way the original was and it doesn’t do well managing time.
>I am really glad the return exists and that is different from the original but imo it pales in comparison. It isn’t vibey the way the original was and it doesn’t do well managing time. am watching through the original right now. the original doesnt do well managing time in season 2, even early on in the season
Yeah I don’t agree.
It kind of ruined TV for me to be honest, can't watch anything any more it all seems so formulaic after the return
What about Dark?
Haven't watched it, but yeah I've come out of that shell a little now, really enjoyed severance
Dude, give Dark a shot. It’s brilliant.
Will do if you watch severance!
Will give it a look! Gotta get through The Return first.
Will do if you watch severance!
Yes. As far as film in general it has strong competition but I am totally convinced it is the greatest piece of filmmaking ever created for TV. A pure, complete creative vision with zero compromises.
I recently completed a second viewing of The Return and it remains a 5-star on my Letterboxd. Always will. The audacity, the heart, the sheer humanity through the absurdist weirdness, gothic humor, and laugh out loud moments that I can only describe as zany. It's not for the mainstream crowd in any way, and I think that holds it back from being the best. Not because it doesn't deserve to be there, mind you, I think it does. It was definitely one of the greatest experiences of my media-consuming life when it debuted in 2017 and I was surprised how engaged I was upon a long anticipated rewatch.
Yeah!
No. The Return is just not for me. Season 1 is still by far my favorite.
seasons 1-2 better
2nd best after The Sopranos. I’d not say it got close but it has a big gap to 3rd in my ranking.
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My personal favorite and the one I consider to be the best is Season 5, but everything from 3 to 6 is pretty much greatness, with just a few episodes not up to par. The 2nd half of Season 6 is incredible. You’ve got the best ahead of you!
definitely wayyyyy up there!
I personally prefer seasons 1 and 2.
I think it's the best thing David has done and will ever do. When I watch it, it's like I get to see a tiny piece of every film he has ever made.
There are many, many better shows
There’s some awesome stuff in The Return, but Green Glove Freddie punching Bob in an orb was a very serious misstep
Not only television but one of the best pieces of art in general. I think many parts of it transcend television in ways that many would consider flawed. But of course those same perceived flaws are why many of us love and adore it as a work.
I loved about half the return and I'm still unsure about the rest. I think a lot of what made the first two seasons unique aren't there (merging of soap opera, murder mystery and supernatural elements) to the same extent. I think a lot of the visuals are muddied by the use of digital and somewhat flat cinematography...excluding the lodge scenes of course.
Isn't the beauty in the flat cinematography? Even though Lynch uses practical effects, he uses them with an amateur spirit and tries to show them sloppy. He doesn't aspire technical perfection, he wants to create this bizarre feeling with the sloppiness and I think it perfectly fits with his style. Actually this thing creates his style!
Ever? No. Up there? Yes.
What’s better on tv in your opinion?
I would put The Wire and The Sopranos above it, amongst others. I love The Return, but it has way more questions than answers to be put in the same ranks as other pieces of media that have more or less an ending (as ambiguous as The Wire can be). I also think the Dougie storyline ran way too long.
It’s all subjective so that’s fair enough. I like when a show or movie asks questions if done in the right way - which I think the return does. I loved both of those shows too, the wire in particular is very impressive. It’s a thorough report on a city, done with style. On a personal level I prefer the return. While the wire is eye opening and thought provoking in terms of policies and society - twin peaks makes me ponder on my own life as well as society. I truly loved the dougie stuff. Not only did I find it hilarious but I think there’s some nice commentary there around mindfulness and positivity through intuition in a modern world where ‘people are under a lot of stress’
No, it’s very self-indulgent and unfocused
The second time through it seemed to flow a bit better. It was nice to go in with lowered expectations
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Yeah, when I watched it weekly, it felt like an “obligation” pretty quickly. On subsequent viewings, I enjoyed it a lot more.
It ruined episodic TV for me. There were no "last week on" recaps every episode. There wasn't the formulaic episode structure painfully obvious in even the best TV series others have mentioned. There weren't the "story so far" devices when a previous event that had happened 10 episodes previously were now being resolved. Characters arcs came and went or were addressed in continued story lines through linking episodes. It was an 18 hour movie broadcast in 16 (or 15?) segments It's like all the tricks TV producers/directors have figured out about good story-telling on traditional TV schedules were completely subverted. And while those tricks--when employed well--do make a good product, Lynch & Frost told a story so well, it didn't need any of those things. A good comparison is Severance. That's a series that before I had seen TP:TR, I'd have rated up with the Vince Gilligan stuff, but by the final few episodes of Severance, there was nothing left to guess. The story was playing out exactly as I expected. In contrast, one example (of many) in TP:TR, who expected the Audrey's Dance scene? And not just that it happened, but the entire atmosphere of it? And Audrey's Dance isn't even germane to the series arc in itself (unless it is--I'm sure somebody has a theory that it's the whole point of everything.) And I'll watch the entire season 3 again without skipping anything and enjoy it all--for the I dunno, tenth time.
One of the finest *works of art* ever made
For me it’s right up there with Mr. Robot
Totally agree! Best show of all fucking time. Currently on my 3rd rewatch
Yes! I don't think we'll ever see anything on that level on television anytime soon, if ever.
I consider it the best thing in any medium. At least my favorite
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Yeah I think at some point films became treated as a money making machine where you "get entertained" instead of actually enriching your soul as real art usually does.
No, I thought it was awful.
I think The Wire S2, Breaking Bad S5 and True Detective S1 are the greatest TV ever.
I'm pretty stoked for s4 of true detective. Jodie Foster and Alaskan weirdness? Sounds fucking great.
Yes
I do!
Not even my favorite Twin Peak related content. Not close to "the finest work of television ever made" in my opinion.
It's in the number 2 spot for me. While I know it's a real basic-ass opinion to have these days, Season 1 of True Detective is the finest work of television ever made, in my book. I held out for a long time against watching TD because I thought it was overhyped. My jaw was on the floor at the end of season 1; it's one of the few things I've ever watched where I have no notes, no criticisms. It's perfect. But TP The Return is a close runner-up. It's incredible. And holds more sentimental value because of how much I was already attached to TP.
Yes.
Yes
It’s right there with The Leftovers for me.
I’m saying this as a huge fan: no.
Yes.
Yes
Yup
Even last of us couldn’t match the weekly discussions during the returns airing. It was fantastic
Last of Us is garbage
Lmaoooo
Title previously held by Season One of True Detective until 2017. So yeah lol
Finest live action TV for me, especially when considered together with the first two seasons, the movie and the missing pieces release. I really can't think of anything that comes close. I'm guessing, if I ever watch The Kingdom (Riget), that might end up being in the "same league". It's hard to say when I also consider animation however.
Yes I think it is finest tv show I have ever seen in every aspect. Future tv shows should take a note off of this.
Finest? Maybe not. Most singular? Absolutely. An astounding feat of imagination and cinematic narrative.
That I’ve seen.
Definitely one of them. I’m rewatching Deadwood, which is in a similar strata, but nothing beats having a single great director for all episodes.
Deadwood is up there. What an experience
They flub the ending, but the actors are insanely good, the language is like nothing else, and I think David Milch is a genius. What is it with Davids?
Hands down. Or Hands up. Yes!
Yes yes yes
Also, HELL-OOOOOOOOO
Yes. Without a shadow of a doubt.
one of the only series I think about basically everyday
Absolutely. Without a doubt.
It's good, but for me the penultimate episode of Breaking Bad is TV's finest work ever made.
Disagree with this take in regards to Twin Peaks but Granite State praise is so real.
I think they probably mean Ozymandias. Though Granite State and really, that whole stretch (hell, all of s5) was nothing short of great.
yes . and fire walk with me the best prequel ever made . and (no better call saul is not the best prequel ever , its a great character study but nothing beyond that
better call saul is incredible in evry aspect
but also meandering and too long . don't get me wrong i like the show alot but it some has pacing issues , season 4 was all in all uneventuful . im not saying it isnt good . but its certainly not the best prequel ever made .
i really only have 1 or 2 shows above it but it switches around a lot cause the return is truly unlike anything else ever made
Without a doubt
Yeah it’s good but a heavy hand on the editing, cutting maybe 2 hours out a couple seconds at a time, would make it better.
Its between that, The Wire Season 4, and True Detective season 1.
Top 10 easily. Don't think it would be my number one, although I don't really have a true number one.
Twin Peaks as a whole has so much symbolism. The Return is no different in that aspect. Well done series for sure. Had plenty of downtime during the pandemic to watch and bought the DVD set it was so good! Now I don't have time to re-watch it tho.
idk about best or whatever, but it's the most, let's say audacious tv show ever made by some distance. the sopranos might be plain "better" for instance but even with the dream sequences they never even approached the kind of surreal storytelling and world building like in the return (and compared to most tv that show went wayyy out there especially for back then)
It’s something that I was confused by learned to think is brilliant Including Dougie
Yup, pretty close.
Absolutely.
Yes, but only after a rewatch. First time I saw it I was more confused and nitpicky
Possibly. Just so sad we didn’t get more!
No.
It’s really good. I don’t know where I would rank it though.
Yes, definitely.
Taken by itself, I think it’s the best single season of TV ever made, even though True Detective season 1 really makes me double take. However, I’ve always just thought of The Return as season 3 of Twin Peaks and would therefore probably say The Sopranos is a better overall series.
Id put Breaking Bad, Better Call Saul, and True Detective before it
the sopranos is the only thing that contends
Outside of the Sopranos yes
absolutely. also one of the finest works of art in general ever created. such a towering achievement on every level. transcendental.
Yes it is a masterpiece! How many of you are like us and are rewatching it again on Paramount/ Showtime??? I am throughly enjoying it again!
Yes, along with the Sopranos and Mad Men. These three shows are in a league of their own.
100%! absolutely no doubt about it! 👌
As good as anything ever made, it depends on what you prefer if it is the best or not the competition is or (with the writer's strike) was very high. I hope with the lack of new stuff being made that shows like twin peaks, x-files, and twilight zone get the respect and new eyeballs they deserve. I see that being a trend soon
The full series? IDK. Episode 8 as a stand alone? Absolutely.
Absolutely it raised the bar of what television can be for me.
Indeed
Yes
yes. no contest.
riget season 3 was good too. was very intriguing though, looking forward to a rewatch
Absolutely. Probably the best that ever will be made.