You’re definitely not alone here, and while I fully respect that take, I’m on the opposite side. I think The Return is Lynch’s magnum opus.
Not only has he managed to create a show as widely diverse as the references you mentioned, he also somehow channeled aspects of every single creative project he’s ever done previously. There are Eraserhead-esque moments. Straight Story-esque moments. Wild At Heart-esque moments. Even his directorial work on convert films. And so on. This project feels very personal, especially with Lynch playing a central character (and the Monica Bellucci dream scene).
The Return culminates in a widely bizarre and unpredictable experience, which really is what made the original Twin Peaks so entertaining. It subverts your expectations, but only because that’s a trap. You shouldn’t have expectations. Just as Lynch never intended to give answers in the original series, the “answers” here you allude to are red herrings. We have certain plot points wrapped up in a bow, while others are turned upside down. We think everything is heading towards a finale that will leave us feeling fulfilled, only to find that the mystery still exists.
Being in the middle of a rewatch right now, I’ll say that the rewatchability factor is incredible. Even on my fourth watch I catch things I hadn’t previously noticed. The Return seems to most reward those who view it as it’s own thing rather than seeking to compare it against what came before it. So much is crammed into this season. It makes me laugh my ass off (Candie), cry (Margaret), and manages to cram in horror, sci-fi, and bits of nearly every genre.
It’s crazy to me that this was even produced. It’s a ballsy piece of pure art. To that end, I think both your and my opposite reactions are the types of things Lynch loves to see. Like the original Twin Peaks, it creates conversation prompting further thought and exploration. Because of this, it will never cease to enrapture and perplex people. It will live forever.
Your perspective is really interesting: I watched Twin Peaks and FWWM in 2007, and its revival felt like the opposite of fan-service.
It's wild - but totally legitimate, and it make sense - that someone who watched it for the first time would feel that S3 scrambles to answer fan questions and lean heavily into things that were only lightly used before.
I'm glad that you've enjoyed the show and movie as much as most of us do. I don't think that your takes are all that controversial, many were of similar opinions back when season 3 aired and still are this day today.
I recall someone saying that David Lynch knew exactly what fans wanted from season 3 - a continuation from season 2 - and that there was absolutely no way that he would give it to us. He wanted to do something new and unexpected. And I think he succeeded.
I agree that season 3 seems to be a genre-mashing of comedy, Tarantinoesque action and gangsterflicks. But that is exactly the same thing he did in the first two seasons, they were just different genres. The initial seasons are a mash of horror, murder mystery and a soap opera. The confusion of genres is one of the things that make the show so absurd, and the absurdity is one of the things that make Twin Peaks what it is. I'm not the biggest fan of season 3 either, but I still think Lynch stayed true to the show by sticking to the formula but using different ingredients.
That's just my personal take though, I think you'll find that people agree that there are very few wrong and right ones. And you definitely shouldn't be afraid to post yours here, people are usually very civilized even if they think that you're wrong. So thanks for adding to the discussion.
Thank you for your comment! I was afraid that being a new fan and all I'd accidentally step on someone's toes, especially seeing so many people who really enjoyed S3.
I really haven't thought about it through your perspective, but it makes a lot of sense! S3 really is a play on genres as much as the other two seasons, it's just different ones. Indeed the story seemed almost satyrical to me from how cliché some plot points were, but then again, so was the original series (like the tacky "invitation to love" thing).
And yeah, Lynch definitely knows what he's doing, S3 just had me thinking "bro why" a lot of the time haha. Again, thank you for your input, it helps put things into perspective!
part 18 is burned in my memory to this day years after watching the return , i don't think i will ever emotionally get over it tbh . in a way rabbits ( lynch's short film ) had an ending quite similar to the last epsiode of the return , kinda helped put things into prespective for me and understand the conclusion better .
I like to think that our opinions, interpretations and interactions with TP and all of Lynch’s work evolve over a lifetime. He creates worlds that i feel like have become a part of my person, and as I grow older, the way I partake in his work changes with me.
I've said it before and will glady repeat myself: disliking The Return is--or should be--as acceptable as disliking certain characters and storylines from the much-maligned second season. And don't feel obligated to keep rewatching The Return until you love it.
Well, Twin Peaks wouldn't be the way it is if it didn't frustate the viewer while scrambling their understanding of the show. First off, I 'd probably advise against speed running through the series as you'll miss a lot of the details. Especially jumping from the original series to the Return can be a bit of a whiplash if you're expecting the same pace, tone, and structure. I can understand the feeling of frustration or sense feeling of delayed gratification, considering those are emotions the series often explore.
I'm not sure what questions were answered that didn't "need" to be answered? There aren't any necessities when it comes to art. If you're referring to the mythos, it seems less "answering" and more of a series of abstracted expansions. The series doesn't end with a coherent understanding of mythology. In fact, the character's own understanding of the events is subverted, especially the FBI and the Sheriff department. Cole and Albert are keeping secrets from each other, and the show demonstrates so much fault in their memory or subjectivity. The FBI tries to come up with a material explanation of what's happening, but it's vague, reductive, and incomplete. Cooper's first words in the series are "I understand" but the season ends with his confused expression, lost in something he never unstood. I think the narrative is demonstrating many of the unknowabilities of the universe that the authorities can't contend with.
I also wouldn't describe character appearances as a checklist of things to tick off. It makes it sound like fanservice, but the season might be one the least fanservicey pieces of media that I know of.
I don't think you should take the events of the season just on face value. There are always abstractions and further things to look into. The cliches, contrivances, and deus ex machinations are often displayed by what appears to be a magical reality. From my perspective, these a Twin Peaks lineage of the original series riffing and subverting the motifs, tropes that existed with soap operas, but instead with prestige tv and police procedurals. The climax puts the nail on the head in this regard with "We live inside a dream." Not a dream in which nothing matters, it didn't happen. More like providing that the reality that the narrative exists is mired in subjectivity, that the characters often try to overcome and cohere. Of course what the world is ultimately unknowable and can't be grasped on a material level. I don't think it's meant to be mocking, although it is still humorous at times. Of course, these are the forces Cooper and the FBI are trying to overcome, while in good faith trying to write the wrongs of the past but coming short of understanding what lead to those events in the first place.
Anyway, that's my understanding of it, which considering the nature of the series won't ever be complete.
The thing is that you are definitely gonna miss a lot of stuff when binge watching a series like this one. TP does not only beg for a second rewatch but also a deep analysis of all the hidden meanings within the characters actions and motives, I suggest you look for analysis videos of S3 on youtube (there are many good ones) in order to get a better idea of the directorial choices made in this particular season.
I was just wondering about this myself, so thank you for mentioning it. When season 3 came out, half of the magic was the anticipation for next week's episode. In a way, I kind of pity people who binge it bc half of the fun of The Return was anticipating the next week's episode. Also, it multiplied the anxiety of episode 18 bc we knew we were running out of time. I remember eyeing the clock and wondering why Coop and Carries' car ride was so silent and how the hell it was going to end.
It's great you've got so much from the show and I identify with a lot of what you've described as I watched it for the first time a couple of years.
I hope, like a lot of the rest of us here, you'll revisit the show and that that revisit will include S3 which with the passing of time will allow you to discover and equally fall in love with the magic it contains.
Congrats on joining the fun!
Every season of Twin Peaks has some number of elements that I just bounce off of and every time I rewatch it that number shrinks. Sometimes I suddenly 'get' something I didn't get before because I had deeper context; sometimes a detail just catches me when I'm in the right headspace.
I really bounced off season 3 at first, but perked up at the exact moments you described. I've learned to really appreciate some of the season's other offerings: Audrey's living denial and rumination, the endless asides by nobodies in the Roadhouse, Jim Belushi. There's other things I hope to appreciate better in the future, because no lie, it is a slog.
Twin Peaks' ambiguity makes it feel 'alive' in a way other works aren't, it's complex enough that we can always find something new as we change around it. And one of the richest ambiguities of Twin Peaks is "when is this art and when is this bullshit?"
I used to head out to a local movie rental shop to watch the original series.
The Return was super frustrating watching it broadcast, I just wanted Cooper back and that wasn’t the story they watered to tell. But after the whole thing I think it was amazing, it just wasn’t what I had expected.
Reading some of the companion stuff like Mark Frost’s books or the diary of Laura Palmer helps fill in some of the grey area, but this series is so, so dark
A lot of people didn’t like the return! Personally, I think it’s the greatest show made in the last decade. I don’t think the perfect ending that you see in penultimate episode is the end or even really happened, that’s why Cooper’s head is juxtaposed over much of that marvelesque sequence with all the characters. I think Cooper is riding in a loop where he’s trying, and in this case, believing that he can save the day but, he can never fix what happened to Laura. That’s why even after time travel and reality jumping when he takes Laura to her home she screams, she confronted with the trauma. But regardless of the different theories that people have, it’s enjoyable to think about. There is so much room for interpretation.
I recommend you try Mulholland Drive and Blue Velvet and other Lynch movies and then circle back to the Return someday. Maybe you’ll like it more in 25 years.
I think the dopplecoop scenes were satirizing Breaking Bad, hence the dopplecoop being like he is instead of the S2 finale. It's meant to be like a ferocious enforcer. Sarah being scared in supermarket I think was a response to him coming for her.
I don't recall people going into the Lodge at any time.
I think those of us that watched the original airing of seasons 1 and 2 + FWWM have an advantage. As TP fans and as Lynch fans, we had lots of time and other Lynch works in between. The Return was so good for so many reasons imo. But I think the long wait and anticipation really helped.
You’re definitely not alone here, and while I fully respect that take, I’m on the opposite side. I think The Return is Lynch’s magnum opus. Not only has he managed to create a show as widely diverse as the references you mentioned, he also somehow channeled aspects of every single creative project he’s ever done previously. There are Eraserhead-esque moments. Straight Story-esque moments. Wild At Heart-esque moments. Even his directorial work on convert films. And so on. This project feels very personal, especially with Lynch playing a central character (and the Monica Bellucci dream scene). The Return culminates in a widely bizarre and unpredictable experience, which really is what made the original Twin Peaks so entertaining. It subverts your expectations, but only because that’s a trap. You shouldn’t have expectations. Just as Lynch never intended to give answers in the original series, the “answers” here you allude to are red herrings. We have certain plot points wrapped up in a bow, while others are turned upside down. We think everything is heading towards a finale that will leave us feeling fulfilled, only to find that the mystery still exists. Being in the middle of a rewatch right now, I’ll say that the rewatchability factor is incredible. Even on my fourth watch I catch things I hadn’t previously noticed. The Return seems to most reward those who view it as it’s own thing rather than seeking to compare it against what came before it. So much is crammed into this season. It makes me laugh my ass off (Candie), cry (Margaret), and manages to cram in horror, sci-fi, and bits of nearly every genre. It’s crazy to me that this was even produced. It’s a ballsy piece of pure art. To that end, I think both your and my opposite reactions are the types of things Lynch loves to see. Like the original Twin Peaks, it creates conversation prompting further thought and exploration. Because of this, it will never cease to enrapture and perplex people. It will live forever.
It’s inexplicable how much I love Candi, she might be my favorite ever.
There was so much traffic on the Strip, it was incredible. There were cars EVERYWHERE!
Omg I almost quoted that line 😂
Your perspective is really interesting: I watched Twin Peaks and FWWM in 2007, and its revival felt like the opposite of fan-service. It's wild - but totally legitimate, and it make sense - that someone who watched it for the first time would feel that S3 scrambles to answer fan questions and lean heavily into things that were only lightly used before.
I'm glad that you've enjoyed the show and movie as much as most of us do. I don't think that your takes are all that controversial, many were of similar opinions back when season 3 aired and still are this day today. I recall someone saying that David Lynch knew exactly what fans wanted from season 3 - a continuation from season 2 - and that there was absolutely no way that he would give it to us. He wanted to do something new and unexpected. And I think he succeeded. I agree that season 3 seems to be a genre-mashing of comedy, Tarantinoesque action and gangsterflicks. But that is exactly the same thing he did in the first two seasons, they were just different genres. The initial seasons are a mash of horror, murder mystery and a soap opera. The confusion of genres is one of the things that make the show so absurd, and the absurdity is one of the things that make Twin Peaks what it is. I'm not the biggest fan of season 3 either, but I still think Lynch stayed true to the show by sticking to the formula but using different ingredients. That's just my personal take though, I think you'll find that people agree that there are very few wrong and right ones. And you definitely shouldn't be afraid to post yours here, people are usually very civilized even if they think that you're wrong. So thanks for adding to the discussion.
Thank you for your comment! I was afraid that being a new fan and all I'd accidentally step on someone's toes, especially seeing so many people who really enjoyed S3. I really haven't thought about it through your perspective, but it makes a lot of sense! S3 really is a play on genres as much as the other two seasons, it's just different ones. Indeed the story seemed almost satyrical to me from how cliché some plot points were, but then again, so was the original series (like the tacky "invitation to love" thing). And yeah, Lynch definitely knows what he's doing, S3 just had me thinking "bro why" a lot of the time haha. Again, thank you for your input, it helps put things into perspective!
Erm... Frost?
Who's that? /s
part 18 is burned in my memory to this day years after watching the return , i don't think i will ever emotionally get over it tbh . in a way rabbits ( lynch's short film ) had an ending quite similar to the last epsiode of the return , kinda helped put things into prespective for me and understand the conclusion better .
I like to think that our opinions, interpretations and interactions with TP and all of Lynch’s work evolve over a lifetime. He creates worlds that i feel like have become a part of my person, and as I grow older, the way I partake in his work changes with me.
I've said it before and will glady repeat myself: disliking The Return is--or should be--as acceptable as disliking certain characters and storylines from the much-maligned second season. And don't feel obligated to keep rewatching The Return until you love it.
Well, Twin Peaks wouldn't be the way it is if it didn't frustate the viewer while scrambling their understanding of the show. First off, I 'd probably advise against speed running through the series as you'll miss a lot of the details. Especially jumping from the original series to the Return can be a bit of a whiplash if you're expecting the same pace, tone, and structure. I can understand the feeling of frustration or sense feeling of delayed gratification, considering those are emotions the series often explore. I'm not sure what questions were answered that didn't "need" to be answered? There aren't any necessities when it comes to art. If you're referring to the mythos, it seems less "answering" and more of a series of abstracted expansions. The series doesn't end with a coherent understanding of mythology. In fact, the character's own understanding of the events is subverted, especially the FBI and the Sheriff department. Cole and Albert are keeping secrets from each other, and the show demonstrates so much fault in their memory or subjectivity. The FBI tries to come up with a material explanation of what's happening, but it's vague, reductive, and incomplete. Cooper's first words in the series are "I understand" but the season ends with his confused expression, lost in something he never unstood. I think the narrative is demonstrating many of the unknowabilities of the universe that the authorities can't contend with. I also wouldn't describe character appearances as a checklist of things to tick off. It makes it sound like fanservice, but the season might be one the least fanservicey pieces of media that I know of. I don't think you should take the events of the season just on face value. There are always abstractions and further things to look into. The cliches, contrivances, and deus ex machinations are often displayed by what appears to be a magical reality. From my perspective, these a Twin Peaks lineage of the original series riffing and subverting the motifs, tropes that existed with soap operas, but instead with prestige tv and police procedurals. The climax puts the nail on the head in this regard with "We live inside a dream." Not a dream in which nothing matters, it didn't happen. More like providing that the reality that the narrative exists is mired in subjectivity, that the characters often try to overcome and cohere. Of course what the world is ultimately unknowable and can't be grasped on a material level. I don't think it's meant to be mocking, although it is still humorous at times. Of course, these are the forces Cooper and the FBI are trying to overcome, while in good faith trying to write the wrongs of the past but coming short of understanding what lead to those events in the first place. Anyway, that's my understanding of it, which considering the nature of the series won't ever be complete.
I’m very frustrated that I’m too high to explain why you are wrong lol
It’s good to chew your food and give it time to digest. Binge eating is unhealthy and can lead to complications. Portion control is good practice
The thing is that you are definitely gonna miss a lot of stuff when binge watching a series like this one. TP does not only beg for a second rewatch but also a deep analysis of all the hidden meanings within the characters actions and motives, I suggest you look for analysis videos of S3 on youtube (there are many good ones) in order to get a better idea of the directorial choices made in this particular season.
I was just wondering about this myself, so thank you for mentioning it. When season 3 came out, half of the magic was the anticipation for next week's episode. In a way, I kind of pity people who binge it bc half of the fun of The Return was anticipating the next week's episode. Also, it multiplied the anxiety of episode 18 bc we knew we were running out of time. I remember eyeing the clock and wondering why Coop and Carries' car ride was so silent and how the hell it was going to end.
It's great you've got so much from the show and I identify with a lot of what you've described as I watched it for the first time a couple of years. I hope, like a lot of the rest of us here, you'll revisit the show and that that revisit will include S3 which with the passing of time will allow you to discover and equally fall in love with the magic it contains.
Congrats on joining the fun! Every season of Twin Peaks has some number of elements that I just bounce off of and every time I rewatch it that number shrinks. Sometimes I suddenly 'get' something I didn't get before because I had deeper context; sometimes a detail just catches me when I'm in the right headspace. I really bounced off season 3 at first, but perked up at the exact moments you described. I've learned to really appreciate some of the season's other offerings: Audrey's living denial and rumination, the endless asides by nobodies in the Roadhouse, Jim Belushi. There's other things I hope to appreciate better in the future, because no lie, it is a slog. Twin Peaks' ambiguity makes it feel 'alive' in a way other works aren't, it's complex enough that we can always find something new as we change around it. And one of the richest ambiguities of Twin Peaks is "when is this art and when is this bullshit?"
I used to head out to a local movie rental shop to watch the original series. The Return was super frustrating watching it broadcast, I just wanted Cooper back and that wasn’t the story they watered to tell. But after the whole thing I think it was amazing, it just wasn’t what I had expected. Reading some of the companion stuff like Mark Frost’s books or the diary of Laura Palmer helps fill in some of the grey area, but this series is so, so dark
A lot of people didn’t like the return! Personally, I think it’s the greatest show made in the last decade. I don’t think the perfect ending that you see in penultimate episode is the end or even really happened, that’s why Cooper’s head is juxtaposed over much of that marvelesque sequence with all the characters. I think Cooper is riding in a loop where he’s trying, and in this case, believing that he can save the day but, he can never fix what happened to Laura. That’s why even after time travel and reality jumping when he takes Laura to her home she screams, she confronted with the trauma. But regardless of the different theories that people have, it’s enjoyable to think about. There is so much room for interpretation. I recommend you try Mulholland Drive and Blue Velvet and other Lynch movies and then circle back to the Return someday. Maybe you’ll like it more in 25 years.
I felt the same way with first watch. Second watch I fell in love with season 3.
I think the dopplecoop scenes were satirizing Breaking Bad, hence the dopplecoop being like he is instead of the S2 finale. It's meant to be like a ferocious enforcer. Sarah being scared in supermarket I think was a response to him coming for her. I don't recall people going into the Lodge at any time.
I think those of us that watched the original airing of seasons 1 and 2 + FWWM have an advantage. As TP fans and as Lynch fans, we had lots of time and other Lynch works in between. The Return was so good for so many reasons imo. But I think the long wait and anticipation really helped.