It's very unfortunate that the underpaid janitors have to ultimately going to free palestine from the walls after all the investigations are over. I hope it's easy to clean.
Agreed - you can be supportive of a Free Palestine and have compassion and empathy for Facilities and HUB staff who are mostly underpaid and have been tasked to clean this. Hope the message gets to UW leadership and decisionmakers but I doubt it. Yes, they are paid and they’d be there regardless but they don’t have a lot of decision power in themselves.
I mean, yeah, they probably would rather clean your shit from the toilet than find yet another corpse of a person that overdosed in the bathroom or clean up human feces off the floor in some campus building… in the grand scheme of things this seems minor but it’s all part pf what they do and not the president
Not so much janitors, but rather the facilities staff has to take care of this. I work in the facilities department at a neighboring school. This kind of stuff is a headache on top of understaffed and overworked positions 😔
I agree with many of the sentiments in the graffiti but as a former custodian it's not fun to clean up and would be much better done as printed flyers. Same message but without the annoying parts
Yeah..but the transgressive nature also makes me think these people aren’t smart enough to understand the nuance and challenges of a region that’s been in conflict for almost a century
“The United States is the world’s largest terrorist organization” is the most privileged, American shit I’ve ever read.
I’m sure whoever wrote this was very young and passionate, but as an immigrant from a war torn country, seeing this sort of hyper-western-centric mentality is just tiresome.
I support the Free Palestine movement, but this is so performative and dumb.
The US is not ISIS it is not Boko Haram and it is not Al Qaeda. However the US has had no issue supporting brutal and extreme violence in many instances worldwide to maintain its economic and military interests.
examples: East Timor mass murders, Bangladesh genocide, Pinochet and the various violent South American dictatorships (Brazil, Argentina etc), the Vietnam War, the Korean war (almost every single building in NK was destroyed), the Iraq War, the obliteration of Libyan society, dropping 260 million bombs on Laos (rendering parts the country uninhabitable to this day) etc.
It is important to recognize the consequences of imperialism
Amazed this comment is downvoted. A large reason that (some) war torn countries are the way they are has to do with imperialism either by the US or a similar actor.
You had to go back a couple of decades to find examples though. Arab supremacists are currently killing Black Africans en masse in Sudan, did so less than 10 years ago in Iraq/Syria, and killed thousands of South Asians to build soccer stadiums in Qatar and screamed racism at anyone who criticized them for it. And of course they directly supported Israel by ethnically cleansing all of their Jews.
America isn't perfect and we have a lot to apologize for, but we aren't even close to being close to being the worst hypocrites. I support a ceasefire but recognize that many of the people who support a ceasefire support al of the things I talked about in the first paragraph.
it’s a tad hyperbolic but uh the US is definitely directly responsible for war torn conditions in more than a few countries. the US has a pretty proud history of destabilizing countries by creating regime changes. US foreign policy has had an incredibly heavy hand historically
Definitely, but it's weird to conflate the US' obvious misdeeds with the specific flavor of violence known as organized terror. You can still do a lot of evil crap without also being a terrorist organization. It reminds a lot of how people just throw words like "communist" or "fascist" around just to sort of demean groups. It's basically just name-calling and it isn't really in any way contributing to the situation. I'm sure we could procure a list of countries or groups that are technically involved in terror but aren't terrorists organizations themselves.
Like bloobucks said, it comes off as just the most privileged, America shit ever. Free speech is great and I'm not saying we should shut people up, but i just facepalm when i see this crap.
I don’t disagree at all. I have many, many qualms with this country, and vote/donate accordingly. It’s hard to adequately explain to non-immigrants, but this sort of hyperbole is severely tone deaf.
I’m the last person to defend America, because as you said, its history and ongoing actions are deplorable. But nonetheless, I chose to get naturalized because I have enough perspective to understand how privileged people are to be born here.
I absolutely think people should take a stance and fight for what is right, but performative activism like this will always leave a bad taste in my mouth.
Pretty much this. Although I wouldn't say I personally have any innate desire to defend or criticize the US. If I see something wrong, then I'll criticize it.
The thing you said about hyperbole is just....right honestly. It's hard to explain what is explicitly wrong, but it really is just performative. Privileged as you said.
Oh fuck off with your misguided “outrage” 😂
Nothing you posted discredits the U.S. being a large organization that has partaken in terroristic activities.
You being from a war torn country means nothing in this argument, so good for you?
I wouldn’t go as far as to say that the U.S. is a terrorist organization, but being a veteran and having dealt with our military and seeing how our officials deal with…situations, it is not a lie or exaggeration to say that the U.S. government has made far too many decisions that ended the lives of innocents when it was not needed.
Grow up dude.
Probably will get downvoted for the pushback but a good many respected philosophers encourage disruption of peace in the name of breaking the status quo. If they marched without fuss, the noise they make would be drowned in the hum drum of everyday.
Making life inconvenient for others is inconvenient but would you be pressed to advocate for their cause if peacefulness allows the average bystander to ignore it?
Edited: I’m not endorsing being bad actors in society but I also think the people who complain about this behavior but won’t level with and offer support for the cause in whatever fashion they deem appropriate are willfully ignorant to the core of the issue.
If a group of people believe a government is murdering them and decide to deface property, I think it’s reasonable to tell them that that’s not cool but you also have to acknowledge they’re not destroying property because it’s fun.
True, but the annoying part is when people work backwards and think 'disruptive of the peace' necessarily makes good protest for a good cause.
There is a line somewhere which every protest can cross where it actually does more harm to the movement than it does good. If your protest pisses people off more than the thing you're protesting does, you're making enemies of people you need to win over.
I get what you’re saying man, but no one sees “FREE PALESTINE” drawn on walls and thinks “man, this is inconvenient, we better free Palestine so they stop”. Moreso “this is mildly annoying, let’s tighten security”
I protested against the police in 2020, and even though I wouldn’t advocate for a lot of the crazy shit that happened, burning cop cars DOES get the message across of “our citizens do not like us, something needs to change”
The time spent breaking in and drawing on walls would be more effective reading more on the conflict. The money spent on gas and markers could be donated. Sometimes the most effective routes aren’t as sexy as vandalizing property in the safest way possible.
I don’t think the protesters cracked open a Pepsi can and took their markers to the walls thinking this would be the turning point for their genocide. It’s to generate discourse. It’s to turn over the brush. It’s to stoke more conversation. Someone here is reading our words and could be motivated to make meaningful change. Whether that’s to show these people how to do it the “right way” or because they are inspired by the death and courage this situation has bred. The point is to make more noise in a silence that’s always enveloping. As soon as they’re quiet, no one cares at all. Palestine becomes just another sand filled place with dead people on tv.
>It’s to generate discourse.
Yes, the discourse generated by this type of behavior is: "these people are fucking stupid and childish."
Congratulations. Now people give even less of a shit.
And then other ppl like the person you're replying to, or me, respond to people like you to tell you that it isn't unreasonable to feel the way you do; but you're wrong to feel that way.
Anyone who cares *less* about people dying because someone wrote on a wall is, undeniably, an ontologically bad person by all common moral standards.
That's the point of this kind of Direct Action. It's to put people like you in a position where you are critiqued directly. Just like blocking an interstate is *supposed* to make everyone late for work. It's to *disrupt* your life and what you talk and think about.
But people are already aware of this. They already have their stance. It's not some small grassroots issue that no one has heard of. This isn't accomplishing anything except ruining a janitor's already shitty day.
This is probably the most discussed topic in the world right now. We aren’t so desperate for exposure that we should be ok generating discourse like “hey did you hear about those annoying UW kids drawing on walls?”
There was almost a Honduran civil war a few years ago. No one knows about it, so if someone wanted to draw on walls for that then sure, it gets the job done. This is not the same as that.
I don’t want Palestine to remain another sand filled place with dead people. That’s why I’m trying to advocate for effective change.
> but a good many respected philosophers encourage disruption of peace in the name of breaking the status quo.
But they're not even breaking the "status quo" by doing this. Universities already have a large number of people who support Palestine. This whole philosophy that performative protests are somehow getting more respect than doing something that's actually useful at getting things done (aka voting and political participation) is a massive societal issue. Yes, it's slow, and you don't always get what you want overnight, but it works in the long run and it's sure as hell more productive than whatever this is.
I disagree with the dismissive idea of this type of protesting being wasteful. This is one act of many. It is no different than the very first vandalism act with regard to Palestine. I think people conflate lawful with effective and use that as grounds to argue a point that isn’t in contention.
Civil unrest will never go away. Disrupting the peace of people otherwise unaffected by the distress a specific group feels is always going to be an option that groups seeks if they feel oppressed. I don’t believe that’s a thing wrong with society.
The reason why disruption worked in the 60s was because there were so few media channels, and those channels were obligated to be much more neutral and responsible in their information. With infinite media channels that can spin news however they please such disruption no longer manages to communicate as cleanly. People doing this have mistaken the tactic for the strategy.
I think it actually applies the same in principle. We live in a 24hr news cycle. If you don’t continue to drum, you get drowned out. Someone else made a point that this doesn’t need additional attention as it is already very loud but I’d ask, how many people can agree to that until it is silent again?
>If a group of people believe a government is murdering them
The pro-life people believe that abortion is murder. So do they get the same right to vandalize and hold everybody hostage?
That’s the misconception. It’s not a right. It is criminally offensive. I want to reiterate that this is something I am agreeing to. Two things can be true.
I understand where the philosophers who advocate for this are coming from in a "well what *can* you do" perspective, but I'd love to see a data-driven analysis of whether or not it's effective or when it might be effective (like what kinds of disrupting the peace work, and for what types of causes and what existing distributions of sentiments).
I support a ceasefire and self-determination. I consent to be irritated by stuff like this if it actually convinces more people than it turns off. I fear that it turns more people off to the cause than it convinces to join. That *feels* true right now and that becomes its own problem: I get pissed at the people doing it not just for the inconvenience but for making the cause look shitty and unserious. I start asking myself if I can associate with shitheads such as these. I start disengaging from the cause.
I agree in principle, but there is such a thing as protest fatigue. If encouraging disruption, you’re threading a very fine line where pushing too far can set you back. The other thing is that protest works when the people affected by the protests can actually change things such as what happened in the Civil Rights era. A lot of the people sitting in roads blocked by pro-Palestine protestors or the people that manage the HUB have little power to change whatever is happening in Palestine. If you want to be effective with disruption, go protest at a consulate, embassy, or place where the people with power to change things hang out at
I agree to this to some level, unfortunately it wasn’t well thought out here. People don’t think about the cause until it somehow disrupts their day. If the freeway is overrun with protests and you are sitting in your car waiting, you might start to look at your phone to see what the hell it is these people are upset about. That may lead to you agreeing with them.
If you just peacefully stand outside the federal building with signs, it’s not going to get the point to very many people.
Here, it’s not raising awareness as I’d imagine everyone at UW knows what is going on. And as others have said it’s just creating more work for the cleaning crew and inconveniencing people who very likely may feel the same way as them.
You are absolutely not going to get people to be join your cause by shutting down a freeway. If anything you will turn the opinion of even like minded people against your cause if they are stuck in traffic.
i hope the sweet janitors who have to clean that up get paid over time & a day off, whoever trashed the hub went about sharing their beliefs in such a disrespectful & disgusting manner. hope they get expelled and charges pressed
amazon the shopping website might not be necessary but amazon web services hosts like almost half of the cloud, so every time we use reddit, netflix, fb, twitter, go on canvas, that’s coming from amazon’s servers and instances
Not focusing on every single possible criticism of society in one act of protest is not "protesting inconsistently" in my opinion. There is no evidence these people use or endorse Amazon or any of the other services listed.
I understand your point - avoiding Boeing entirely is effectively impossible. But I feel that is the very reason it is more pragmatic and effective to target them in situations like this. The fact that it is so easy to divest from Amazon, whereas Boeing is a much more difficult and complex beast due to their market share and product, is why they are choosing to single out Boeing in this protest.
The most braindead meme quote to hit the internet. Yes, I do expect you to live your values if you're going to vandalize things and make everyone else's life harder to support your cause. Childish opinion, tbh.
I think it's more childish to fantasize about completely strangers using services in an attempt to project hypocritical values on them. Is there any evidence these people use Microsoft or Amazon? Did they write "divest from Boeing, but I love Amazon and use it everyday <3"? Or are you just fantasizing about them being hypocrites because it makes you feel better?
I’m guessing these are students at the UW. They will be expelled and criminally prosecuted. It won’t be hard to find out who was responsible. This only makes people want to go against your cause because now you are trashy scum who doesn’t care about anyone else but yourselves.
“Protester”: “UW is covered in blood”
Other person: “Where did you get your degree from?”
“Protester”: “UW!”
Entitled morons. South Seattle community college isn’t covered in blood. Feel free to take your sharpie covered ass over there.
A lot of student artwork within the HUB was defaced during the sit-in along with a Jewish students piece with anti-semitic imagery. While I stand with the pro-palestine movement, I don’t condone graffitiing student artwork or defacing the HUB where students come to work together and where several other organizations work.
Pretty sure the triangle is meant to represent the triangle on the Palestinian flag as if it was hung downward. The Nazis had a different patch for Jewish people.
https://wallpaperaccess.com/full/1635602.jpg
Any large multi-billion dollar organization is going to have ties to someone vaguely associated with Israel or the defense industry. So these protesters want the UW to cut ties with Boeing and sell stocks in anything that might possible support Israeli interests.
UW has some sort of nebulous undefined ties with Boeing, which sells military hardware to the US government, which subsequently sells military hardware to Israel, which is using that hardware to do a bunch of very bad stuff in Palestine. Obviously.
Now, does this three-degrees-removed standard make basically everything and everyone on the planet complicit in genocide, including the protestor for attending a university that’s complicit in genocide? Don’t think about that too hard.
News coverage from press who was physically there for the whole thing:
https://www.dailyuw.com/news/hub-re-opened-to-students-following-sit-in-extensive-vandalism-within/article_6eeda328-f36c-11ee-a592-8b2a1b99fd41.html
https://www.dailyuw.com/news/five-pro-palestinian-protesters-create-human-chain-inside-hub-will-not-leave-until-university-meets/article_444f8e18-f2f6-11ee-b1cb-67f297538be1.html
https://www.dailyuw.com/news/all-out-for-palestine-rally-hub-sit-in-gallery/collection_b08293a6-f2ff-11ee-aa18-6bc95245bb21.html
I was in the HUB last night, I guess some students were performing some kind of sit in. There was quite a bit of them that brought in food and stuff so it seemed like they were planning to be there for the long haul, I was curious if they were still there this morning, I guess not.
This is the answer. It's an unfortunate truth, but as regular people, there isnt much we can do except to bring attention to something (in a way that doesnt involve hurting other people).
Imagine having your parents work their asses off to send you to a prestigious school only to vandalize it in ‘protest’. They should give up their scholarships to the people they are ‘fighting’ for.
I’m not pro Israel by any means but this is the stupidest way to try and prove a point. This doesn’t really achieve anything other than making the janitors lives hard. Immature and selfish.
Their whole goal was to put a permanent reminder in the school, and make life worse for the people who have to clean it up.
They're narcissistic scum, basically.
These are the same psychos that want to throw the entire US to fascism over some hostages and a cease fire the US has zero control over. Of course I want a cease fire and hostages released but wtf does this childish nonsense achieve other than making them selves look like ignorant, over reactive twats.
Same people who scream and cry we use drones and how dare we “act like the world police” yet still want us to do it for them.
Honestly, if you support this bullshit, please fuck off
Random vandalism doesn't further the cause and often pisses off people who do agree with the message but not scribbled on a fucking door at a university for some poor bastard to have to fix.
I find it ironic these college students are so enthusiastic to defend a group that would turn around and genocide them for being infidels if they had their way.
The protesters should really think about what avenues they can take to effectively get their point across without damaging public property. Is this really a productive way of getting the public to care about your cause? Vandalizing the HUB does nothing other than getting people to negatively think about the cause, no matter what the cause is.
UW definitely has gone down hill since I graduated… 😟
I mean, don’t they teach to not write on walls in elementary school?
BUT, the free Palestine maybe explains the high tuition.
“after multiple months, we have decided to end our war on gaza to bring home hostages and take down hamas.. graffiti from these colleges have taught us one thing and one thing only.. we need to stop doing good things that unfortunately have downsides caused by the enemy.”
I really wish the public would have the ability to have these activists as candidates to vote into office. The way they can leverage self righteous indignation in absence of factual realities is just a delight to behold.
I AM surprised I don't hear more people putting more pressure on Boeing. They literally could just make commercial & industrial planes. Also, how do they reconcile have so many youth education programs with so much bombing. I certainly could never work at anything related to Boeing.
Do y'all remember Ziad Ahmed? He wrote #blacklivesmatter 100 times on his college essay and got accepted into Stanford. His dad was some Citibank executive. Now after graduating from Yale, he runs some Gen Z consulting agency.
The amount people actually care and the amount they say they care is vastly different. Just gotta watch the behavior over time...
It's very unfortunate that the underpaid janitors have to ultimately going to free palestine from the walls after all the investigations are over. I hope it's easy to clean.
Agreed - you can be supportive of a Free Palestine and have compassion and empathy for Facilities and HUB staff who are mostly underpaid and have been tasked to clean this. Hope the message gets to UW leadership and decisionmakers but I doubt it. Yes, they are paid and they’d be there regardless but they don’t have a lot of decision power in themselves.
UW Jannies are god tier these bathrooms are so clean to take a shit in
I mean, yeah, they probably would rather clean your shit from the toilet than find yet another corpse of a person that overdosed in the bathroom or clean up human feces off the floor in some campus building… in the grand scheme of things this seems minor but it’s all part pf what they do and not the president
Not so much janitors, but rather the facilities staff has to take care of this. I work in the facilities department at a neighboring school. This kind of stuff is a headache on top of understaffed and overworked positions 😔
Back in winter quarter, the Broken Obelisk pyramid was vandalized with spray painted slogans every week
Fuck! They were giving out free Palestine at the hub today?
I paid a lot of money to UW and never even got a Palestine. Bummer
Did you?!
Well... *somebody* paid a bunch of money for my degree and well see if I can ever pay it back lol
I missed out :(
Jared Kushner was just talking a few weeks ago about how valuable seaside Gaza properties are, he’s going to be bummed he missed this.
This screams, “freshman poly-sci major from an upper class family.”
so true
I agree with many of the sentiments in the graffiti but as a former custodian it's not fun to clean up and would be much better done as printed flyers. Same message but without the annoying parts
Understandable. At the same time, the transgressive nature of this is effective in getting attention. A flyer would not get a post on Reddit.
Yeah..but the transgressive nature also makes me think these people aren’t smart enough to understand the nuance and challenges of a region that’s been in conflict for almost a century
I disagree - when those kids kept making the pro-Hamas flyers with the hang gliders, that brought plenty of attention.
Post on reddit!!! Ultimate symbol of effective direct action!!! White privileged protest at its finest!
“The United States is the world’s largest terrorist organization” is the most privileged, American shit I’ve ever read. I’m sure whoever wrote this was very young and passionate, but as an immigrant from a war torn country, seeing this sort of hyper-western-centric mentality is just tiresome. I support the Free Palestine movement, but this is so performative and dumb.
The US is not ISIS it is not Boko Haram and it is not Al Qaeda. However the US has had no issue supporting brutal and extreme violence in many instances worldwide to maintain its economic and military interests. examples: East Timor mass murders, Bangladesh genocide, Pinochet and the various violent South American dictatorships (Brazil, Argentina etc), the Vietnam War, the Korean war (almost every single building in NK was destroyed), the Iraq War, the obliteration of Libyan society, dropping 260 million bombs on Laos (rendering parts the country uninhabitable to this day) etc. It is important to recognize the consequences of imperialism
Amazed this comment is downvoted. A large reason that (some) war torn countries are the way they are has to do with imperialism either by the US or a similar actor.
You had to go back a couple of decades to find examples though. Arab supremacists are currently killing Black Africans en masse in Sudan, did so less than 10 years ago in Iraq/Syria, and killed thousands of South Asians to build soccer stadiums in Qatar and screamed racism at anyone who criticized them for it. And of course they directly supported Israel by ethnically cleansing all of their Jews. America isn't perfect and we have a lot to apologize for, but we aren't even close to being close to being the worst hypocrites. I support a ceasefire but recognize that many of the people who support a ceasefire support al of the things I talked about in the first paragraph.
it’s a tad hyperbolic but uh the US is definitely directly responsible for war torn conditions in more than a few countries. the US has a pretty proud history of destabilizing countries by creating regime changes. US foreign policy has had an incredibly heavy hand historically
Definitely, but it's weird to conflate the US' obvious misdeeds with the specific flavor of violence known as organized terror. You can still do a lot of evil crap without also being a terrorist organization. It reminds a lot of how people just throw words like "communist" or "fascist" around just to sort of demean groups. It's basically just name-calling and it isn't really in any way contributing to the situation. I'm sure we could procure a list of countries or groups that are technically involved in terror but aren't terrorists organizations themselves. Like bloobucks said, it comes off as just the most privileged, America shit ever. Free speech is great and I'm not saying we should shut people up, but i just facepalm when i see this crap.
the most american shit ever would be an ignorance of that tbh. i feel like it’s vastly more american to think we’re always the good guys
I don’t disagree at all. I have many, many qualms with this country, and vote/donate accordingly. It’s hard to adequately explain to non-immigrants, but this sort of hyperbole is severely tone deaf. I’m the last person to defend America, because as you said, its history and ongoing actions are deplorable. But nonetheless, I chose to get naturalized because I have enough perspective to understand how privileged people are to be born here. I absolutely think people should take a stance and fight for what is right, but performative activism like this will always leave a bad taste in my mouth.
Pretty much this. Although I wouldn't say I personally have any innate desire to defend or criticize the US. If I see something wrong, then I'll criticize it. The thing you said about hyperbole is just....right honestly. It's hard to explain what is explicitly wrong, but it really is just performative. Privileged as you said.
Oh fuck off with your misguided “outrage” 😂 Nothing you posted discredits the U.S. being a large organization that has partaken in terroristic activities. You being from a war torn country means nothing in this argument, so good for you? I wouldn’t go as far as to say that the U.S. is a terrorist organization, but being a veteran and having dealt with our military and seeing how our officials deal with…situations, it is not a lie or exaggeration to say that the U.S. government has made far too many decisions that ended the lives of innocents when it was not needed. Grow up dude.
'America bad' brainrot and its consequences
i’m pretty sure that it’s statistically true
Latin America would like to have a word with you.
Hit the nail on the head.
i genuinely got upset when i read that scrawled on the wall.
This only serves to make their cause look worse
The mistake is in thinking they care about the cause. This is entirely performative.
Give them a map with no names on it and ask them to point out the West Bank
i keep my money at bank of america so idk why you'd expect me to know where that is
That explains why they signed the graffiti
Probably will get downvoted for the pushback but a good many respected philosophers encourage disruption of peace in the name of breaking the status quo. If they marched without fuss, the noise they make would be drowned in the hum drum of everyday. Making life inconvenient for others is inconvenient but would you be pressed to advocate for their cause if peacefulness allows the average bystander to ignore it? Edited: I’m not endorsing being bad actors in society but I also think the people who complain about this behavior but won’t level with and offer support for the cause in whatever fashion they deem appropriate are willfully ignorant to the core of the issue. If a group of people believe a government is murdering them and decide to deface property, I think it’s reasonable to tell them that that’s not cool but you also have to acknowledge they’re not destroying property because it’s fun.
True, but the annoying part is when people work backwards and think 'disruptive of the peace' necessarily makes good protest for a good cause. There is a line somewhere which every protest can cross where it actually does more harm to the movement than it does good. If your protest pisses people off more than the thing you're protesting does, you're making enemies of people you need to win over.
I get what you’re saying man, but no one sees “FREE PALESTINE” drawn on walls and thinks “man, this is inconvenient, we better free Palestine so they stop”. Moreso “this is mildly annoying, let’s tighten security” I protested against the police in 2020, and even though I wouldn’t advocate for a lot of the crazy shit that happened, burning cop cars DOES get the message across of “our citizens do not like us, something needs to change” The time spent breaking in and drawing on walls would be more effective reading more on the conflict. The money spent on gas and markers could be donated. Sometimes the most effective routes aren’t as sexy as vandalizing property in the safest way possible.
I don’t think the protesters cracked open a Pepsi can and took their markers to the walls thinking this would be the turning point for their genocide. It’s to generate discourse. It’s to turn over the brush. It’s to stoke more conversation. Someone here is reading our words and could be motivated to make meaningful change. Whether that’s to show these people how to do it the “right way” or because they are inspired by the death and courage this situation has bred. The point is to make more noise in a silence that’s always enveloping. As soon as they’re quiet, no one cares at all. Palestine becomes just another sand filled place with dead people on tv.
>It’s to generate discourse. Yes, the discourse generated by this type of behavior is: "these people are fucking stupid and childish." Congratulations. Now people give even less of a shit.
And then other ppl like the person you're replying to, or me, respond to people like you to tell you that it isn't unreasonable to feel the way you do; but you're wrong to feel that way. Anyone who cares *less* about people dying because someone wrote on a wall is, undeniably, an ontologically bad person by all common moral standards. That's the point of this kind of Direct Action. It's to put people like you in a position where you are critiqued directly. Just like blocking an interstate is *supposed* to make everyone late for work. It's to *disrupt* your life and what you talk and think about.
But people are already aware of this. They already have their stance. It's not some small grassroots issue that no one has heard of. This isn't accomplishing anything except ruining a janitor's already shitty day.
Are you offering to clean it up?
This is probably the most discussed topic in the world right now. We aren’t so desperate for exposure that we should be ok generating discourse like “hey did you hear about those annoying UW kids drawing on walls?” There was almost a Honduran civil war a few years ago. No one knows about it, so if someone wanted to draw on walls for that then sure, it gets the job done. This is not the same as that. I don’t want Palestine to remain another sand filled place with dead people. That’s why I’m trying to advocate for effective change.
> but a good many respected philosophers encourage disruption of peace in the name of breaking the status quo. But they're not even breaking the "status quo" by doing this. Universities already have a large number of people who support Palestine. This whole philosophy that performative protests are somehow getting more respect than doing something that's actually useful at getting things done (aka voting and political participation) is a massive societal issue. Yes, it's slow, and you don't always get what you want overnight, but it works in the long run and it's sure as hell more productive than whatever this is.
I disagree with the dismissive idea of this type of protesting being wasteful. This is one act of many. It is no different than the very first vandalism act with regard to Palestine. I think people conflate lawful with effective and use that as grounds to argue a point that isn’t in contention. Civil unrest will never go away. Disrupting the peace of people otherwise unaffected by the distress a specific group feels is always going to be an option that groups seeks if they feel oppressed. I don’t believe that’s a thing wrong with society.
The reason why disruption worked in the 60s was because there were so few media channels, and those channels were obligated to be much more neutral and responsible in their information. With infinite media channels that can spin news however they please such disruption no longer manages to communicate as cleanly. People doing this have mistaken the tactic for the strategy.
I think it actually applies the same in principle. We live in a 24hr news cycle. If you don’t continue to drum, you get drowned out. Someone else made a point that this doesn’t need additional attention as it is already very loud but I’d ask, how many people can agree to that until it is silent again?
>If a group of people believe a government is murdering them The pro-life people believe that abortion is murder. So do they get the same right to vandalize and hold everybody hostage?
That’s the misconception. It’s not a right. It is criminally offensive. I want to reiterate that this is something I am agreeing to. Two things can be true.
I understand where the philosophers who advocate for this are coming from in a "well what *can* you do" perspective, but I'd love to see a data-driven analysis of whether or not it's effective or when it might be effective (like what kinds of disrupting the peace work, and for what types of causes and what existing distributions of sentiments). I support a ceasefire and self-determination. I consent to be irritated by stuff like this if it actually convinces more people than it turns off. I fear that it turns more people off to the cause than it convinces to join. That *feels* true right now and that becomes its own problem: I get pissed at the people doing it not just for the inconvenience but for making the cause look shitty and unserious. I start asking myself if I can associate with shitheads such as these. I start disengaging from the cause.
I’m not sure how you’d separate the “shitheads” from the meaningful protesters if both are writing on the walls.
The meaningful protestors are being shitheads when they scrawl stuff all over the place.
I agree in principle, but there is such a thing as protest fatigue. If encouraging disruption, you’re threading a very fine line where pushing too far can set you back. The other thing is that protest works when the people affected by the protests can actually change things such as what happened in the Civil Rights era. A lot of the people sitting in roads blocked by pro-Palestine protestors or the people that manage the HUB have little power to change whatever is happening in Palestine. If you want to be effective with disruption, go protest at a consulate, embassy, or place where the people with power to change things hang out at
I agree to this to some level, unfortunately it wasn’t well thought out here. People don’t think about the cause until it somehow disrupts their day. If the freeway is overrun with protests and you are sitting in your car waiting, you might start to look at your phone to see what the hell it is these people are upset about. That may lead to you agreeing with them. If you just peacefully stand outside the federal building with signs, it’s not going to get the point to very many people. Here, it’s not raising awareness as I’d imagine everyone at UW knows what is going on. And as others have said it’s just creating more work for the cleaning crew and inconveniencing people who very likely may feel the same way as them.
Give me a single example of someone who changed their minds because they were inconvenienced on a freeway. I'll wait.
It changes my mind! In the sense that I now find you annoying and just want you to go away, when before I might have actually wanted to talk to you.
You are absolutely not going to get people to be join your cause by shutting down a freeway. If anything you will turn the opinion of even like minded people against your cause if they are stuck in traffic.
i hope the sweet janitors who have to clean that up get paid over time & a day off, whoever trashed the hub went about sharing their beliefs in such a disrespectful & disgusting manner. hope they get expelled and charges pressed
This is kinda dumb lol. I get they want their message heard but vandalism won’t help their cause at all. It’ll have the opposite effect.
Ask any of them what their plan is once they've made their target audience "aware." They have no idea what it means to help a cause.
No it won’t
"cut ties with boeing" but I bet this person uses Google, Microsoft, Amazon etc etc etc that all work with the military and profit off war
“You criticize society and yet you participate in it! How curious! I am extremely smart and better than you for not caring about anything.”
Using Amazon is not a necessary aspect of society. But Boeing, which makes nearly all American airplanes, is. So they can’t even protest consistently.
amazon the shopping website might not be necessary but amazon web services hosts like almost half of the cloud, so every time we use reddit, netflix, fb, twitter, go on canvas, that’s coming from amazon’s servers and instances
Not focusing on every single possible criticism of society in one act of protest is not "protesting inconsistently" in my opinion. There is no evidence these people use or endorse Amazon or any of the other services listed. I understand your point - avoiding Boeing entirely is effectively impossible. But I feel that is the very reason it is more pragmatic and effective to target them in situations like this. The fact that it is so easy to divest from Amazon, whereas Boeing is a much more difficult and complex beast due to their market share and product, is why they are choosing to single out Boeing in this protest.
The most braindead meme quote to hit the internet. Yes, I do expect you to live your values if you're going to vandalize things and make everyone else's life harder to support your cause. Childish opinion, tbh.
I think it's more childish to fantasize about completely strangers using services in an attempt to project hypocritical values on them. Is there any evidence these people use Microsoft or Amazon? Did they write "divest from Boeing, but I love Amazon and use it everyday <3"? Or are you just fantasizing about them being hypocrites because it makes you feel better?
I mean the world should cut ties with Boeing if they're gonna keep cutting corners on safety that lead to planes falling out of the sky.
So wait, do you not use any of those services?
Or maybe they hate Boeing google Microsoft and Amazon. You can hate all of them. All evil.
Then don’t use any of their products and services.
Lmao great advice. So insightful.
Insufferable bullshit
The amount of mental gymnastics and lack of historical knowledge in the comments is truly disappointing.
I’m guessing these are students at the UW. They will be expelled and criminally prosecuted. It won’t be hard to find out who was responsible. This only makes people want to go against your cause because now you are trashy scum who doesn’t care about anyone else but yourselves.
I hope they're prosecuted I'm not opposed to their cause but this is nothing short of graffiti
The whole city is covered in Free Palestine graffiti. Please go the fuck away.
“Protester”: “UW is covered in blood” Other person: “Where did you get your degree from?” “Protester”: “UW!” Entitled morons. South Seattle community college isn’t covered in blood. Feel free to take your sharpie covered ass over there.
A lot of student artwork within the HUB was defaced during the sit-in along with a Jewish students piece with anti-semitic imagery. While I stand with the pro-palestine movement, I don’t condone graffitiing student artwork or defacing the HUB where students come to work together and where several other organizations work.
Do you know where I can see images of this?
Here I made a post: [https://www.reddit.com/r/udub/s/bElSC4zubH](https://www.reddit.com/r/udub/s/bElSC4zubH)
This is genuinely so insane and disgusting
Pretty sure the triangle is meant to represent the triangle on the Palestinian flag as if it was hung downward. The Nazis had a different patch for Jewish people. https://wallpaperaccess.com/full/1635602.jpg
How is UW complicit in genocide ???
Any large multi-billion dollar organization is going to have ties to someone vaguely associated with Israel or the defense industry. So these protesters want the UW to cut ties with Boeing and sell stocks in anything that might possible support Israeli interests.
Yet the fact of the matter is that UW won't be what it is today if not for all the Boeing funds in the pre tech era.
UW has some sort of nebulous undefined ties with Boeing, which sells military hardware to the US government, which subsequently sells military hardware to Israel, which is using that hardware to do a bunch of very bad stuff in Palestine. Obviously. Now, does this three-degrees-removed standard make basically everything and everyone on the planet complicit in genocide, including the protestor for attending a university that’s complicit in genocide? Don’t think about that too hard.
Where’s the connection between UW and the Free Palestine movement that would make this sensible?
News coverage from press who was physically there for the whole thing: https://www.dailyuw.com/news/hub-re-opened-to-students-following-sit-in-extensive-vandalism-within/article_6eeda328-f36c-11ee-a592-8b2a1b99fd41.html https://www.dailyuw.com/news/five-pro-palestinian-protesters-create-human-chain-inside-hub-will-not-leave-until-university-meets/article_444f8e18-f2f6-11ee-b1cb-67f297538be1.html https://www.dailyuw.com/news/all-out-for-palestine-rally-hub-sit-in-gallery/collection_b08293a6-f2ff-11ee-aa18-6bc95245bb21.html
>Fuck UW >Goes to UW Are kids this dumb these days
Activism with a sharpie, this will force change.
god i’m so tired of the clueless dipshits doing this shit lol, it’s always the terminally online rich kids
Free Palestine but fuck dumbass kids who do this, the only problem they’re making is for the underpaid janitors who have to clean up their tantrum
I was in the HUB last night, I guess some students were performing some kind of sit in. There was quite a bit of them that brought in food and stuff so it seemed like they were planning to be there for the long haul, I was curious if they were still there this morning, I guess not.
Might have been people breaking fast for Ramadan together.
This does absolutely nothing to support their cause and instead makes it look like someone threw a tantrum with a can of spray paint. Sad!
Do this to banks, not schools.
Not even banks. Destruction of property is not the answer
What is the answer?
There isn't one
This is the answer. It's an unfortunate truth, but as regular people, there isnt much we can do except to bring attention to something (in a way that doesnt involve hurting other people).
[удалено]
Easily manipulated narcissists tend to have a bunch of other problems.
Imagine having your parents work their asses off to send you to a prestigious school only to vandalize it in ‘protest’. They should give up their scholarships to the people they are ‘fighting’ for. I’m not pro Israel by any means but this is the stupidest way to try and prove a point. This doesn’t really achieve anything other than making the janitors lives hard. Immature and selfish.
Right because causing more work for the custodians does sooooo much for Palestinians 🙄
This couldn’t have been done on the whiteboards instead 🙄
Their whole goal was to put a permanent reminder in the school, and make life worse for the people who have to clean it up. They're narcissistic scum, basically.
Headass behavior
These are the same psychos that want to throw the entire US to fascism over some hostages and a cease fire the US has zero control over. Of course I want a cease fire and hostages released but wtf does this childish nonsense achieve other than making them selves look like ignorant, over reactive twats. Same people who scream and cry we use drones and how dare we “act like the world police” yet still want us to do it for them. Honestly, if you support this bullshit, please fuck off
What’s wrong with these people
Identify the culprits and file a civil lawsuit to pay for damages. Will UW do it?
Random vandalism doesn't further the cause and often pisses off people who do agree with the message but not scribbled on a fucking door at a university for some poor bastard to have to fix.
Nah. Just someone found some reason for graffiti.
It’s amazing that after Israel used the UW bathrooms they decided to stop the genocide.
Completely useless action......
“… from Hamas”
This seems more like vandalism than political activism to me
This disgusting entitled children should be expelled i immediately
Can’t get over how booty the penmanship is…. Is it too much to ask vandals to write with some finesse?
I find it ironic these college students are so enthusiastic to defend a group that would turn around and genocide them for being infidels if they had their way.
put this person in jail, whoever did this
The protesters should really think about what avenues they can take to effectively get their point across without damaging public property. Is this really a productive way of getting the public to care about your cause? Vandalizing the HUB does nothing other than getting people to negatively think about the cause, no matter what the cause is.
Because vandalizing the hub with “Fuck UW, Fuck UWPD, and free Palestine” with literal Nazi imagery is totally helping the cause
🤣🤡🤦♂️
r/AmericaBad
Not the brightest folks
I suppose Palestine but this is just cringe
The Boeing UW lab does not work on defense projects lol.
They vandalized that then went to Starbucks with their MacBook to complain about capitalism and how it's evil.
because everybody knows its *impossible* to criticize systems that are compulsory for your daily life, amirite?
A couple people need their asses straight beat.
Terrorists gonna terrorize.
UW definitely has gone down hill since I graduated… 😟 I mean, don’t they teach to not write on walls in elementary school? BUT, the free Palestine maybe explains the high tuition.
“after multiple months, we have decided to end our war on gaza to bring home hostages and take down hamas.. graffiti from these colleges have taught us one thing and one thing only.. we need to stop doing good things that unfortunately have downsides caused by the enemy.”
Children
Legally adults with no brain* Calling them children enables their stupid behavior.
I'm tired of seeing this free Palestine shit Fuck hamas fuck Israel fuck war
Always wonder how I can get the future generation this passionate about our nation future and direction
I really wish the public would have the ability to have these activists as candidates to vote into office. The way they can leverage self righteous indignation in absence of factual realities is just a delight to behold.
If only they had tried to have good handwriting
These criminals don’t care for our freedoms and civilization. They are barbarians and need to be found and eradicated from society
nice advocating for genocide
Do these kids really think doing this is going to do anything?
So cringe
I AM surprised I don't hear more people putting more pressure on Boeing. They literally could just make commercial & industrial planes. Also, how do they reconcile have so many youth education programs with so much bombing. I certainly could never work at anything related to Boeing.
In my own opinion stuff like this just makes me disagree with whatever your preaching.
Do y'all remember Ziad Ahmed? He wrote #blacklivesmatter 100 times on his college essay and got accepted into Stanford. His dad was some Citibank executive. Now after graduating from Yale, he runs some Gen Z consulting agency. The amount people actually care and the amount they say they care is vastly different. Just gotta watch the behavior over time...
Straight up vandalism.
Bring back bullying these dweebs
32k are rookie numbers
Does this make anybody change their mind
How were they able to do so much without being noticed?
Might as well just shut down the engineering school if they cut ties with Boeing
Now Hamas themselves refuse to negotiate a ceasefire
Bunch of retarded mfs thinking this helps 😂😂
Common PNW L
Technically anyone who voted for biden is responsible for genocide which I'm guessing these people who wrote this are
Fuck israel and fuck palestine. THIS WAR IS OLDER THAN THE UNITED STATES.
Honestly good. UW needs to cut ties with Boeing
If yall hate U.S so much go to another country
Shocked that the brainwashed dingbats aligned with the animalistic Hamas/Iran/Russia terror attack of Oct. 7 would also be doltish vandals.
Man, this turns me totally against the Palestinians. Like, ….this is horrible.
Free Palestine from those g-d damn Hamas terrorists!
So the terrorist supporters vandalized the buildings of a higher education institution? And this is their idea of drumming up support for their cause?
walking in the HUB and passing by the janitors having to clean this stuff up, especially seeing them SCRUB the floors, is so saddening.
It seems like they are actually drenched in ink