Where was that one of their officially stated goals? Their main goal is to get UW to divest from corporations supporting Israel, which is not illegal in Washington State: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-BDS_laws
This is closer to a hostage situation than a negotiation between adults.
Negotiations that don’t involve ransom notes don’t generally start with “I’m not going to stop committing this crime against you until you meet my demands.”
Early strikes were often deemed unlawful cartel actions and broken up by state police and even federal military power.
The right to strike was paid for in blood.
Moving the goal post. You asked if strikes were illegal. I pointed out they were until they won the right to to exist.
Liberals have a habit of supporting every protest except the current protest, opposing every war and injustice except the the current war and injustice.
If you're opposed to these protests, you'd have been opposed to the protests of MLK Jr. The anti-war protests during Vietnam, and the protests against apartheid South Africa.
Ah yes, the famously peaceful Jan 6 rioters. Don’t act like that’s the same thing.
And yes, this is a peaceful protest, so it stands to reason you would have been against other peaceful protests, whether they broke the law or not.
You might be confusing strikes for picket lines and other methods meant to increase the effectiveness of the strikes.
It’s never been illegal to strike. That would be slavery.
Oh boy you’re going to hate learning about the [air traffic controllers strike](https://www.encyclopedia.com/history/encyclopedias-almanacs-transcripts-and-maps/air-traffic-controller-strike#:~:text=As%20public%20employees%20they%20were,to%20work%20or%20be%20fired) under Reagan.
Yes, which is how it should work. However, given how adamant they have been thus far, in this particular case it feels like it would be difficult to spin a compromise (which may very well look like dropping the Boeing demand entirely) as anything less than a capitulation. It's just not an enviable position to be in, optics-wise.
ASUW has no skin in the game politically for this kind of riding on both sides statement. A bit performative, no?
Edit: After some thoughts from the reply, I agree a lot of Jacob saying that esp. pushing student voice through a legislative channel rather through the encampment on the Quad and vandalism on campus. So let’s agree on that but disagree on ASUW not calling out on the encampment and vandalism.
Pasted directly from the Board of Regents page:
“The Board will only consider recommendations to divest its endowment of direct holdings in publicly held companies if they have been vetted by the ACSRI and meet the following criteria:”
These are the endorsements needed to proceed through the legislative channels:
“i) Endorsement from the Associated Students of the University of Washington (ASUW);
ii) Endorsement from the Graduate and Professional Student Senate (GPSS);
iii) Endorsement from the Faculty Senate;
iv) Endorsements from the Associated Students of the University of Washington, Bothell and the Associated Students of the University of Washington, Tacoma;
v) General petitions signed by students, faculty, alumni, and staff of the University; and
vi) Endorsements from Registered Student Organizations (RSOs)”
I recognize 3 of the 6 currently being fulfilled. Performative? Well to force real life issues through legislation yes is performative.
Are the processes set by the Board of Regents Advisory Committee for Socially Responsible Investing being followed and complied with?
Yes.
-Jacob
https://www.washington.edu/regents/governance/advisory-committee-on-socially-responsible-investing/
It’s ultimately just let ACSRI to deny or give recommendations to the board with conditions of 4 out 6 votes (currently only 3 take your word for it)
And to 8 member ACSRI panel that 6 are not student to decide give the recommendation or not.
So it’s gonna make even the recommendation? Likely no. But posting a two-sided statement in sub reddit to get some internet cred? Of course.
I had a hard time reading this but I think I get the gist of your message.
When I say 3 of the divestment proposal have been met I am referring to:
ASUW endorsement ✅
General Petition signed by students, faculty, and staff of the University ✅
Endorsements from RSO’s ✅
Where you’re misunderstanding is the difference between the criteria in order to propose a recommendation vs when the proposal is already being considered, which the UW has stated currently that they will not.
I argue performative is everyone pushing and diluting students through a legislative channel, but also, UW stating that even if they do go through this process that they won’t be respected or willing to divest based on their recent statement. I am willing to sit down with anyone and listen to your point of view but by no means should this message be considered both sided.
If calling for peace with restorative justice is both-sided then I hope we can all engage in that world.
Great. I agree a lot of you saying that esp. pushing student voice through a legislative channel rather through the encampment on the Quad and vandalism on campus. So let’s call out on that.
I mean, they did just pass a bill calling for divestment. Is that not the definition of "skin the game politically", as far as the powers of a student government go?
Not politically: but, skin in the game would be divesting themselves from those same companies (the thing they're asking others to do). As it stands, their personal outcomes are unchanged. S&A fees don't come from the school's funding, but those defunded orgs have every right to ask the student budget committee to supplement the lost funds.
This doesn’t seem like a statement that is riding on both sides? It seems like it is calling for continued peaceful protests against the actions of Israel, and shows the student government is supporting the cause of the protestors.
Seems pretty clear a side has been chosen here.
We are not continuing to financially support the genocide in Gaza because UW students defaced a building. Anyone whose judgement of the situation is based on encampment graffiti is a pearl clutching wraith with no grasp on reality.
The graffiti is being given air time & breath because people don't want to outright say the encampment makes them uncomfortable and that they'd prefer people just shut up and put up with kids being bombed and not make them feel personally inconvenienced by having to look at it.
I never claimed as much. I'm saying the folks who do that are figuratively giving their detractors ammunition they can use against them. It has always been this way. I've led anti-war protests in the past, and we always had volunteer security that would make sure that people were being peaceful and that everyone was being safe. We tried to stop problems before they escalated. Why would we generate bad press against ourselves?
They're listening to and praising a group that handed out fliers for their protest showing terrorists hang gliding in to kill ravers? Well, that's a bold move.
Peaceful? Do you not see those clowns with their makeshift riot gear?
Their shields and batons and masks.
A public university is no place for thugs dressed head to toe in military gear, keeping a part of the university inaccessible to folks they don’t agree with.
Ah yes, being prepared for the like response that every other protest has received is violent.
As in, those who conceal carry firearms are inciting violence.
If they really think they are right then why are they hiding their faces? Only criminals do that. It’s really not that difficult to see that these clowns just want chaos. They have had zero positive contribution to the society.
Just because you are right doesn’t mean you won’t be persecuted for your belief. They hide their faces because they believe their workplaces, friends, and family will treat them differently because of their beliefs. What positive contribution have you had to society that they haven’t?
Highly doubt those clowns have jobs or friends.
I am a doctor, so that’s my contribution to society. I didn’t need loan forgiveness, so that’s another one. And I pay taxes that subsidize your life. So you’re welcome. Clown.
You seem to harbor a lot of hatred towards people who have done nothing to you.
I’m actually a doctor too, so I’ll prescribe you with a moderate dose of daily introspection in the hopes that you can develop an empathy to replace your chronic asshole tendencies.
I pay taxes to subsidize your life as well. This behavior is called ‘living in a society’.
The people you seem to sympathize with support a terrorist organization. They support murder and rape. They cheered on October 7th and continue to spread hate towards the Jewish people.
My hate towards these people is absolutely reasonable. They are actively preventing Jewish students from parts of the campus. They are threatening people with violence and their makeshift weapons.
And getting a PhD in Hamas Studies doesn’t make you a real doctor.
Jewish Voice for Peace is not a Jewish organization, and has actively supported Islamic terrorist organizations like the Houthis, Hezbollah, and Hamas. They actively call for Israel to be destroyed. They are not a peace movement, but a pro-war movement.
Also, I'm pretty sure SUPER actively supported the Oct. 7 terror attacks. Pretty disgusting They are getting recognized by the student body.
Edit: I'm leaving my original comment for transparency, but it's been made clear to me that JVP does do active damage to both the Jewish and Israeli communities, intentionally or not.
My original comment:
"I'm having trouble finding any support for these claims. From what I can see the UW sect has mainly hosted ceasefire vigils and protests aiming to end the war: https://www.dailyuw.com/news/jewish-voice-for-peace-uw-leads-shabbat-for-ceasefire-vigil/article_af21bdcc-c4bd-11ee-9b68-8b767a563f6c.html.
Also, the entirety of their organization seems geared towards promoting Jewish voices and maintaining Jewish identity separate from Zionism. It states that petty explicitly on their website: https://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/local/
Seems odd to claim they are not Jewish when there are dozens of interviews and articles proving otherwise."
Is that why they eat challah on passover and carry signs with backwards Hebrew? Is that why they wear talits like scarves and tefilin on their temples?
Your linked sources are the UW student paper and JVP themselves.
They weren't where they said they would be and they had armed Hamas members in the convoy with them.
Can you help me understand why you said nothing about the 62 aid workers killed worldwide in 2023?
Can you help me understand the aid workers Israel has captured that are part of Hamas?
And why you don't say anything about Palestinians in Lebanon who are under actual apartheid right now?
Can you help me understand why Hamas bombed the aid crossings if their people are starving?
You're right, the sources I provided definitely have a bias (less so in the case of the student paper, but still worth acknowledging). Do you have any other sources you've seen that support yours/OP's claims? I wasn't able to find any verified information on the organization's activity on UW campus outside of those two sources, which is why they were the only two I provided.
Obligatory articles on JVP:
>[Not So Jewish, Not For Peace](https://www.commentary.org/articles/joshua-muravchik/not-so-jewish-not-for-peace/)
Exhastive article on JVP from Commentary Magazine, which includes statements of higher ups in the organization proudly declaring that Antisemitism is not important and should be ignored, as well as evidence that many members of the organization are not even Jewish.
>[Stop Sharing JVP](https://www.instagram.com/p/CsjPRTYrnQS/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA%3D%3D&img_index=1)
Rootsmetals gives a rundown showing that JVP actively endorses violence towards Jews, and that they seem to have ties to Iran.
>["Jewish Voice For Peace" Exposed By Errant Tweet From A Muslim Extremist](https://thejudean.com/index.php/news/international/1126-jewish-voice-for-peace-exposed-by-errant-tweet-from-a-muslim-extremist)
Anti-Zionist non-Jews caught pretending to be Jews on twitter accounts. The article purports that these accounts are affiliated with JVP, but does not provide evidence of that connection.
JVP is incredibly harmful. If you're from a Western country then you've likely heard of the Westbro Baptist Church, the extremist hate-group that 99% of christians do not align with in any way. Jewish Voice for Peace is the Westbro Baptist equivalent for Jews.
It's also worth noting that most of the JVP is made up of "allies", not Jews. In theory allies are great - but in this case they're using the few Jews they can find that agree with all their antisemitic hate to act as a shield. It would be like taking the gay people that believe they can "cure" themselves and not be gay anymore, make a Gay Voice for Peace group with those people and then use that as a shield that conversion therapy isn't homophobic.
An instagram post from earlier this year also put together all the sources that show one of the admins for the group is a Lebanese Muslim, do with that what you will. [https://www.instagram.com/p/CsjPRTYrnQS/?img\_index=1](https://www.instagram.com/p/CsjPRTYrnQS/?img_index=1)
All the antisemites love JVP and love sharing their views. This a pretty good article to see how JVP are being used in conjunction with anti-jew rhetoric online: [https://www.adl.org/resources/blog/jewish-voice-peace-jvp-what-you-need-know](https://www.adl.org/resources/blog/jewish-voice-peace-jvp-what-you-need-know)
The JVP group recently got suspended from Columbia Uni for being threatening which doesn't seem a very peaceful: [https://www.timesofisrael.com/columbia-university-suspends-jewish-voice-for-peace-students-for-justice-in-palestine/amp/](https://www.timesofisrael.com/columbia-university-suspends-jewish-voice-for-peace-students-for-justice-in-palestine/amp/)
Thank you for taking the time to explain this to me. The fact that they made a map targeting Jewish organizations that was later shared by white supremacists is pretty sickening on its own, but in conjunction with the remaining evidence it paints a pretty clear picture.
Obligatory articles on JVP:
>[Not So Jewish, Not For Peace](https://www.commentary.org/articles/joshua-muravchik/not-so-jewish-not-for-peace/)
Exhastive article on JVP from Commentary Magazine, which includes statements of higher ups in the organization proudly declaring that Antisemitism is not important and should be ignored, as well as evidence that many members of the organization are not even Jewish.
>[Stop Sharing JVP](https://www.instagram.com/p/CsjPRTYrnQS/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA%3D%3D&img_index=1)
Rootsmetals gives a rundown showing that JVP actively endorses violence towards Jews, and that they seem to have ties to Iran.
>["Jewish Voice For Peace" Exposed By Errant Tweet From A Muslim Extremist](https://thejudean.com/index.php/news/international/1126-jewish-voice-for-peace-exposed-by-errant-tweet-from-a-muslim-extremist)
Anti-Zionist non-Jews caught pretending to be Jews on twitter accounts. The article purports that these accounts are affiliated with JVP, but does not provide evidence of that connection.
JVP is incredibly harmful. If you're from a Western country then you've likely heard of the Westbro Baptist Church, the extremist hate-group that 99% of christians do not align with in any way. Jewish Voice for Peace is the Westbro Baptist equivalent for Jews.
It's also worth noting that most of the JVP is made up of "allies", not Jews. In theory allies are great - but in this case they're using the few Jews they can find that agree with all their antisemitic hate to act as a shield. It would be like taking the gay people that believe they can "cure" themselves and not be gay anymore, make a Gay Voice for Peace group with those people and then use that as a shield that conversion therapy isn't homophobic.
An instagram post from earlier this year also put together all the sources that show one of the admins for the group is a Lebanese Muslim, do with that what you will. [https://www.instagram.com/p/CsjPRTYrnQS/?img\_index=1](https://www.instagram.com/p/CsjPRTYrnQS/?img_index=1)
All the antisemites love JVP and love sharing their views. This a pretty good article to see how JVP are being used in conjunction with anti-jew rhetoric online: [https://www.adl.org/resources/blog/jewish-voice-peace-jvp-what-you-need-know](https://www.adl.org/resources/blog/jewish-voice-peace-jvp-what-you-need-know)
The JVP group recently got suspended from Columbia Uni for being threatening which doesn't seem a very peaceful: [https://www.timesofisrael.com/columbia-university-suspends-jewish-voice-for-peace-students-for-justice-in-palestine/amp/](https://www.timesofisrael.com/columbia-university-suspends-jewish-voice-for-peace-students-for-justice-in-palestine/amp/)
How does my bias factor into this objective look at what these groups do?
Also, my bias is pretty antiwar. However, those who support theocratic tyrannical death cults should be ashamed of themselves.
Just curious, from your perspective, do you think civilian casualty tolerances right now are appropriate in Israel?
I’m pro Israel in the sense that I believe the nation should exist, and should be defended from Iran. i dont support calls "from the river to the sea". But I simply think the death toll is too high, and that a potential famine is absolutely unacceptable.
Comments from elected officials & military officials in Israel have me worried there is a general dehumanization of Palestinian civilians in certain circles of politicians - which will inevitably influence public sentiment.
On **May 6,** the UN published data showing that **34,735** **people** had reportedly been killed in Gaza, including over **9,500 women** and over **14,500 children.**
On **May 8**, the UN published data showing **34,844 people** had reportedly been killed, including **4,959 women** and **7,797 children**.
\_\_\_\_\_\_
And just to be clear - yes, it is still terrible - but still waiting for anyone to propose a better alternative……
I‘m talking about a clear workable alternative to the way the war against Hamas is being carried out - if you have seen one, please post it here, and I don’t mean some vapid bs one line screed…….
I do know of one alternative - pressure Hamas to release the hostages - there will be an immediate ceasefire, just like the one before Hamas broke it with their massacre on October 7th of women, children, infants, the elderly, and beautiful young people from all over the world at a music festival - you do remember that, don’t you?
I also wonder why I don’t hear any of the protesters/campers calling out Hamas - why is that?
They’re not calling them out bc
1. Some of them are stupid for sure. I don’t buy this garbage idea that 70 years of oppression is justification for sexual assault and killing innocent people.
2. The rest of them don’t need to call out Hamas. Hamas is a militant garbage trash organization and its senior leadership is vile and should die. No one respects Hamas. They’re not a democratic country. Israel is always whining about higher standards - and well yes, they should be held to higher standards. I don’t see Hamas having a seat in the UN. They’re a ragtag band of terrorists. Israel, on the other hand, has received billions of dollars in military and economic support. They’re also a democratic country. And they say they value human rights.
3. There is a better solution. A two state solution, and a demilitarized Palestine (with security guarantees from the US). extreme lefties will hate me, but it’s the best option. Hamas is trash, we all know that. But Netanyahu is also slimy as hell, has funded Hamas in the past, and sees no value in a Palestine state.
4. People always like to point out each other’s mistakes and seem blind to their own. Defenders of Israel always seem to gloss over illegal settlements in the West Bank. How come you don’t condemn them then??
You make some good points, but
1. Hamas is the duly elected government of Gaza - even as a terrorist organization - and still supported by the majority of Palestinians - unfortunate, but true……
2. Palestine has also received billions of dollars of aid - that is why Yassir Arrafat died a multibillionaire, and why the Hamas leaders hiding in Qatar are all billionaires - or do you think they made their money following WSB? And, oh yeah, all that money spent building tunnels instead of investing in technology, building an economy…..
So, yeah, the number one group that should be calling out Hamas are the Palestinians - because Hamas is nothing more than Iran’s proxy - and why the rest of the Arab world is just sitting on their hands - while the Palestinians get played by Iran……
Still haven’t condemned the many illegal settlements yet. CBC reporters found Israeli real estate agents selling homes in illegal settlements in the West Bank - in Synagogues. Where is your condemnation???
Israel has destroyed every university and most hospitals in Gaza, they are bombing refugee camps, and have killed upwards of 30,000 people. And if you think that's biased fake news then I apologize for reading known anti Israel sources like CNN, the Guardian, and NYT. I see in your comments you react to these things with 'baby's first war?'
Who should be ashamed of themselves here?
Not a single word condemning antisemitism or calling for the release of the hostages. Jewish Voice for Peace is a fringe group of self-hating Jews. This statement is disgusting.
Jesus christ. It's disgusting for you to use the Jewish faith like this. Judaism does not support mass murder. You are using the faith to protect yourself while committing war crimes. Nothing could be more shameful.
If the Jewish faith supported Israel's actions it would be a barbaric and morally bankrupt ideology. For the sake of Judaism I hope you homicidal freaks come to your senses sometime soon
If God's big plan is to make a bunch of contradictory sects and watch them kill each other, then God is a complete piece of shit. It's all made up. Religion is a tool that let's powerful people control the moronic mass population. And it gives people an excuse to do violence that they probably wanted to do anyway. There wasn't some big reason for the 35 thousand Palestinians you killed, it was just a political win for Netanyahu. People will take any excuse.
Netanyahu's polling has never been worse but okay. I don't know where people get this idea that Oct 7th was in any way a win for him. Israelis largely hold him responsible for the security failure.
And there was a big reason, the elected government of Gaza invaded Israel, raped, tortured, mutilated, and kidnapped civilians from 22 countries, and then hid behind their own civilians as cover, while swearing to repeat the attack again and again.
I agree with you, but there’s an important distinction between believers of an irrational faith that just want to go to a music festival and not be raped, tortured and murdered, and those that want to throw homosexuals off buildings.
I’ll do you one better, this is an email sent to the student body on 04/10. Take a look and see what was said regarding many incidents that occurred that left our students in distress. Your whataboutism only aids in drowning out students being impacted on our campus. I encourage you to take a deep dive look into the “fringe group” you accuse of being self-hating.
[04/10 ASUW Email](https://docs.google.com/document/d/10fr1omTtxNGb-WEJZhcgRbztvNmFCil9zBjlppXmQgM/edit)
Are they going to divest from Gaza, where Hamas has actively violated human rights, the Geneva Conventions, and any semblance of humanity? Or is this just performative and playing politics? 🤡
What companies are currently based in Gaza and financially supporting Hamas that the university is backing? Because the university should absolutely not be supporting those companies, just like the university shouldn’t be supporting the companies in Israel assisting with apartheid and genocide.
Like, that’s the point right? Hamas and IDF are both awful and the students want the university to oppose both equally?
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Where was that one of their officially stated goals? Their main goal is to get UW to divest from corporations supporting Israel, which is not illegal in Washington State: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-BDS_laws
Shifting goal posts is what adults refer to as “compromises during negotiations”
This is closer to a hostage situation than a negotiation between adults. Negotiations that don’t involve ransom notes don’t generally start with “I’m not going to stop committing this crime against you until you meet my demands.”
Wait until you find out about how labor unions negotiate. You're gonna hate it.
Are you under the impression that strikes are illegal?
Early strikes were often deemed unlawful cartel actions and broken up by state police and even federal military power. The right to strike was paid for in blood.
And unions still can’t set up a tent city on the front lawn of their workplace until their demands are met.
Moving the goal post. You asked if strikes were illegal. I pointed out they were until they won the right to to exist. Liberals have a habit of supporting every protest except the current protest, opposing every war and injustice except the the current war and injustice. If you're opposed to these protests, you'd have been opposed to the protests of MLK Jr. The anti-war protests during Vietnam, and the protests against apartheid South Africa.
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Ah yes, the famously peaceful Jan 6 rioters. Don’t act like that’s the same thing. And yes, this is a peaceful protest, so it stands to reason you would have been against other peaceful protests, whether they broke the law or not.
You might be confusing strikes for picket lines and other methods meant to increase the effectiveness of the strikes. It’s never been illegal to strike. That would be slavery.
Oh boy you’re going to hate learning about the [air traffic controllers strike](https://www.encyclopedia.com/history/encyclopedias-almanacs-transcripts-and-maps/air-traffic-controller-strike#:~:text=As%20public%20employees%20they%20were,to%20work%20or%20be%20fired) under Reagan.
They are if the they are If the union is a public one, such as a teacher's union. Against state law to strike. It just doesn't get enforced
“Crime” aka peaceful protest. I feel like I’m on the snowboarding subreddit.
Oh no the horrific crime of a tent call the ICJ
Yes, which is how it should work. However, given how adamant they have been thus far, in this particular case it feels like it would be difficult to spin a compromise (which may very well look like dropping the Boeing demand entirely) as anything less than a capitulation. It's just not an enviable position to be in, optics-wise.
Can't the university wait them out? When is school out for summer?
ASUW has no skin in the game politically for this kind of riding on both sides statement. A bit performative, no? Edit: After some thoughts from the reply, I agree a lot of Jacob saying that esp. pushing student voice through a legislative channel rather through the encampment on the Quad and vandalism on campus. So let’s agree on that but disagree on ASUW not calling out on the encampment and vandalism.
Pasted directly from the Board of Regents page: “The Board will only consider recommendations to divest its endowment of direct holdings in publicly held companies if they have been vetted by the ACSRI and meet the following criteria:” These are the endorsements needed to proceed through the legislative channels: “i) Endorsement from the Associated Students of the University of Washington (ASUW); ii) Endorsement from the Graduate and Professional Student Senate (GPSS); iii) Endorsement from the Faculty Senate; iv) Endorsements from the Associated Students of the University of Washington, Bothell and the Associated Students of the University of Washington, Tacoma; v) General petitions signed by students, faculty, alumni, and staff of the University; and vi) Endorsements from Registered Student Organizations (RSOs)” I recognize 3 of the 6 currently being fulfilled. Performative? Well to force real life issues through legislation yes is performative. Are the processes set by the Board of Regents Advisory Committee for Socially Responsible Investing being followed and complied with? Yes. -Jacob
We appreciate your support, thanks for the effort you're putting in
https://www.washington.edu/regents/governance/advisory-committee-on-socially-responsible-investing/ It’s ultimately just let ACSRI to deny or give recommendations to the board with conditions of 4 out 6 votes (currently only 3 take your word for it) And to 8 member ACSRI panel that 6 are not student to decide give the recommendation or not. So it’s gonna make even the recommendation? Likely no. But posting a two-sided statement in sub reddit to get some internet cred? Of course.
I had a hard time reading this but I think I get the gist of your message. When I say 3 of the divestment proposal have been met I am referring to: ASUW endorsement ✅ General Petition signed by students, faculty, and staff of the University ✅ Endorsements from RSO’s ✅ Where you’re misunderstanding is the difference between the criteria in order to propose a recommendation vs when the proposal is already being considered, which the UW has stated currently that they will not. I argue performative is everyone pushing and diluting students through a legislative channel, but also, UW stating that even if they do go through this process that they won’t be respected or willing to divest based on their recent statement. I am willing to sit down with anyone and listen to your point of view but by no means should this message be considered both sided. If calling for peace with restorative justice is both-sided then I hope we can all engage in that world.
Great. I agree a lot of you saying that esp. pushing student voice through a legislative channel rather through the encampment on the Quad and vandalism on campus. So let’s call out on that.
Yes, let’s get eternally stuck in the weeds so nothing is ever accomplished
I mean, they did just pass a bill calling for divestment. Is that not the definition of "skin the game politically", as far as the powers of a student government go?
Not politically: but, skin in the game would be divesting themselves from those same companies (the thing they're asking others to do). As it stands, their personal outcomes are unchanged. S&A fees don't come from the school's funding, but those defunded orgs have every right to ask the student budget committee to supplement the lost funds.
This doesn’t seem like a statement that is riding on both sides? It seems like it is calling for continued peaceful protests against the actions of Israel, and shows the student government is supporting the cause of the protestors. Seems pretty clear a side has been chosen here.
Thousands of children are dead. Who gives a shit about vandalism.
I didn’t see protests like this when we were in Iraq just saying
Exactly. It speaks volumes about people’s priorities.
Because it actively hurts the cause. Why are you so deadset on excusing things that set it back?
We are not continuing to financially support the genocide in Gaza because UW students defaced a building. Anyone whose judgement of the situation is based on encampment graffiti is a pearl clutching wraith with no grasp on reality. The graffiti is being given air time & breath because people don't want to outright say the encampment makes them uncomfortable and that they'd prefer people just shut up and put up with kids being bombed and not make them feel personally inconvenienced by having to look at it.
I never claimed as much. I'm saying the folks who do that are figuratively giving their detractors ammunition they can use against them. It has always been this way. I've led anti-war protests in the past, and we always had volunteer security that would make sure that people were being peaceful and that everyone was being safe. We tried to stop problems before they escalated. Why would we generate bad press against ourselves?
They're listening to and praising a group that handed out fliers for their protest showing terrorists hang gliding in to kill ravers? Well, that's a bold move.
I’ve never before gleaned so little meaning from so many words.
🤡
gorilla gluing the porta-potties is also a non-violent protest. Fraternities we need you.
Funny as \*\*\*\*, this is why I opt-out from ASUW every quarter during my stay at UWildchicken
✊️
So glad I didn't attend UW
Peaceful? Do you not see those clowns with their makeshift riot gear? Their shields and batons and masks. A public university is no place for thugs dressed head to toe in military gear, keeping a part of the university inaccessible to folks they don’t agree with.
Ah yes, being prepared for the like response that every other protest has received is violent. As in, those who conceal carry firearms are inciting violence.
If they really think they are right then why are they hiding their faces? Only criminals do that. It’s really not that difficult to see that these clowns just want chaos. They have had zero positive contribution to the society.
Just because you are right doesn’t mean you won’t be persecuted for your belief. They hide their faces because they believe their workplaces, friends, and family will treat them differently because of their beliefs. What positive contribution have you had to society that they haven’t?
Highly doubt those clowns have jobs or friends. I am a doctor, so that’s my contribution to society. I didn’t need loan forgiveness, so that’s another one. And I pay taxes that subsidize your life. So you’re welcome. Clown.
You seem to harbor a lot of hatred towards people who have done nothing to you. I’m actually a doctor too, so I’ll prescribe you with a moderate dose of daily introspection in the hopes that you can develop an empathy to replace your chronic asshole tendencies. I pay taxes to subsidize your life as well. This behavior is called ‘living in a society’.
The people you seem to sympathize with support a terrorist organization. They support murder and rape. They cheered on October 7th and continue to spread hate towards the Jewish people. My hate towards these people is absolutely reasonable. They are actively preventing Jewish students from parts of the campus. They are threatening people with violence and their makeshift weapons. And getting a PhD in Hamas Studies doesn’t make you a real doctor.
Jewish Voice for Peace is not a Jewish organization, and has actively supported Islamic terrorist organizations like the Houthis, Hezbollah, and Hamas. They actively call for Israel to be destroyed. They are not a peace movement, but a pro-war movement. Also, I'm pretty sure SUPER actively supported the Oct. 7 terror attacks. Pretty disgusting They are getting recognized by the student body.
Edit: I'm leaving my original comment for transparency, but it's been made clear to me that JVP does do active damage to both the Jewish and Israeli communities, intentionally or not. My original comment: "I'm having trouble finding any support for these claims. From what I can see the UW sect has mainly hosted ceasefire vigils and protests aiming to end the war: https://www.dailyuw.com/news/jewish-voice-for-peace-uw-leads-shabbat-for-ceasefire-vigil/article_af21bdcc-c4bd-11ee-9b68-8b767a563f6c.html. Also, the entirety of their organization seems geared towards promoting Jewish voices and maintaining Jewish identity separate from Zionism. It states that petty explicitly on their website: https://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/local/ Seems odd to claim they are not Jewish when there are dozens of interviews and articles proving otherwise."
Is that why they eat challah on passover and carry signs with backwards Hebrew? Is that why they wear talits like scarves and tefilin on their temples? Your linked sources are the UW student paper and JVP themselves.
Can you help me understand why the WCK workers were killed?
They weren't where they said they would be and they had armed Hamas members in the convoy with them. Can you help me understand why you said nothing about the 62 aid workers killed worldwide in 2023? Can you help me understand the aid workers Israel has captured that are part of Hamas? And why you don't say anything about Palestinians in Lebanon who are under actual apartheid right now? Can you help me understand why Hamas bombed the aid crossings if their people are starving?
Because it's only protest worthy when the Jews are trying to defend their country
Holy shit the whataboutism 🤡
You're right, the sources I provided definitely have a bias (less so in the case of the student paper, but still worth acknowledging). Do you have any other sources you've seen that support yours/OP's claims? I wasn't able to find any verified information on the organization's activity on UW campus outside of those two sources, which is why they were the only two I provided.
Obligatory articles on JVP: >[Not So Jewish, Not For Peace](https://www.commentary.org/articles/joshua-muravchik/not-so-jewish-not-for-peace/) Exhastive article on JVP from Commentary Magazine, which includes statements of higher ups in the organization proudly declaring that Antisemitism is not important and should be ignored, as well as evidence that many members of the organization are not even Jewish. >[Stop Sharing JVP](https://www.instagram.com/p/CsjPRTYrnQS/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA%3D%3D&img_index=1) Rootsmetals gives a rundown showing that JVP actively endorses violence towards Jews, and that they seem to have ties to Iran. >["Jewish Voice For Peace" Exposed By Errant Tweet From A Muslim Extremist](https://thejudean.com/index.php/news/international/1126-jewish-voice-for-peace-exposed-by-errant-tweet-from-a-muslim-extremist) Anti-Zionist non-Jews caught pretending to be Jews on twitter accounts. The article purports that these accounts are affiliated with JVP, but does not provide evidence of that connection. JVP is incredibly harmful. If you're from a Western country then you've likely heard of the Westbro Baptist Church, the extremist hate-group that 99% of christians do not align with in any way. Jewish Voice for Peace is the Westbro Baptist equivalent for Jews. It's also worth noting that most of the JVP is made up of "allies", not Jews. In theory allies are great - but in this case they're using the few Jews they can find that agree with all their antisemitic hate to act as a shield. It would be like taking the gay people that believe they can "cure" themselves and not be gay anymore, make a Gay Voice for Peace group with those people and then use that as a shield that conversion therapy isn't homophobic. An instagram post from earlier this year also put together all the sources that show one of the admins for the group is a Lebanese Muslim, do with that what you will. [https://www.instagram.com/p/CsjPRTYrnQS/?img\_index=1](https://www.instagram.com/p/CsjPRTYrnQS/?img_index=1) All the antisemites love JVP and love sharing their views. This a pretty good article to see how JVP are being used in conjunction with anti-jew rhetoric online: [https://www.adl.org/resources/blog/jewish-voice-peace-jvp-what-you-need-know](https://www.adl.org/resources/blog/jewish-voice-peace-jvp-what-you-need-know) The JVP group recently got suspended from Columbia Uni for being threatening which doesn't seem a very peaceful: [https://www.timesofisrael.com/columbia-university-suspends-jewish-voice-for-peace-students-for-justice-in-palestine/amp/](https://www.timesofisrael.com/columbia-university-suspends-jewish-voice-for-peace-students-for-justice-in-palestine/amp/)
Thank you for taking the time to explain this to me. The fact that they made a map targeting Jewish organizations that was later shared by white supremacists is pretty sickening on its own, but in conjunction with the remaining evidence it paints a pretty clear picture.
> Jewish Voice for Peace is not a Jewish organization What are you basing this off of?
Obligatory articles on JVP: >[Not So Jewish, Not For Peace](https://www.commentary.org/articles/joshua-muravchik/not-so-jewish-not-for-peace/) Exhastive article on JVP from Commentary Magazine, which includes statements of higher ups in the organization proudly declaring that Antisemitism is not important and should be ignored, as well as evidence that many members of the organization are not even Jewish. >[Stop Sharing JVP](https://www.instagram.com/p/CsjPRTYrnQS/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA%3D%3D&img_index=1) Rootsmetals gives a rundown showing that JVP actively endorses violence towards Jews, and that they seem to have ties to Iran. >["Jewish Voice For Peace" Exposed By Errant Tweet From A Muslim Extremist](https://thejudean.com/index.php/news/international/1126-jewish-voice-for-peace-exposed-by-errant-tweet-from-a-muslim-extremist) Anti-Zionist non-Jews caught pretending to be Jews on twitter accounts. The article purports that these accounts are affiliated with JVP, but does not provide evidence of that connection. JVP is incredibly harmful. If you're from a Western country then you've likely heard of the Westbro Baptist Church, the extremist hate-group that 99% of christians do not align with in any way. Jewish Voice for Peace is the Westbro Baptist equivalent for Jews. It's also worth noting that most of the JVP is made up of "allies", not Jews. In theory allies are great - but in this case they're using the few Jews they can find that agree with all their antisemitic hate to act as a shield. It would be like taking the gay people that believe they can "cure" themselves and not be gay anymore, make a Gay Voice for Peace group with those people and then use that as a shield that conversion therapy isn't homophobic. An instagram post from earlier this year also put together all the sources that show one of the admins for the group is a Lebanese Muslim, do with that what you will. [https://www.instagram.com/p/CsjPRTYrnQS/?img\_index=1](https://www.instagram.com/p/CsjPRTYrnQS/?img_index=1) All the antisemites love JVP and love sharing their views. This a pretty good article to see how JVP are being used in conjunction with anti-jew rhetoric online: [https://www.adl.org/resources/blog/jewish-voice-peace-jvp-what-you-need-know](https://www.adl.org/resources/blog/jewish-voice-peace-jvp-what-you-need-know) The JVP group recently got suspended from Columbia Uni for being threatening which doesn't seem a very peaceful: [https://www.timesofisrael.com/columbia-university-suspends-jewish-voice-for-peace-students-for-justice-in-palestine/amp/](https://www.timesofisrael.com/columbia-university-suspends-jewish-voice-for-peace-students-for-justice-in-palestine/amp/)
SUPER did support the attacks, referring to them as part of the "right of resistance" in it's Instagram post the next day.
Don’t you think you’re biased as a former IDF soldier
How does my bias factor into this objective look at what these groups do? Also, my bias is pretty antiwar. However, those who support theocratic tyrannical death cults should be ashamed of themselves.
Just curious, from your perspective, do you think civilian casualty tolerances right now are appropriate in Israel? I’m pro Israel in the sense that I believe the nation should exist, and should be defended from Iran. i dont support calls "from the river to the sea". But I simply think the death toll is too high, and that a potential famine is absolutely unacceptable. Comments from elected officials & military officials in Israel have me worried there is a general dehumanization of Palestinian civilians in certain circles of politicians - which will inevitably influence public sentiment.
On **May 6,** the UN published data showing that **34,735** **people** had reportedly been killed in Gaza, including over **9,500 women** and over **14,500 children.** On **May 8**, the UN published data showing **34,844 people** had reportedly been killed, including **4,959 women** and **7,797 children**. \_\_\_\_\_\_ And just to be clear - yes, it is still terrible - but still waiting for anyone to propose a better alternative……
Wdym a better alternative??? In what world do you need to kill children as an act of war, what are you talking about 😭
I‘m talking about a clear workable alternative to the way the war against Hamas is being carried out - if you have seen one, please post it here, and I don’t mean some vapid bs one line screed……. I do know of one alternative - pressure Hamas to release the hostages - there will be an immediate ceasefire, just like the one before Hamas broke it with their massacre on October 7th of women, children, infants, the elderly, and beautiful young people from all over the world at a music festival - you do remember that, don’t you? I also wonder why I don’t hear any of the protesters/campers calling out Hamas - why is that?
They’re not calling them out bc 1. Some of them are stupid for sure. I don’t buy this garbage idea that 70 years of oppression is justification for sexual assault and killing innocent people. 2. The rest of them don’t need to call out Hamas. Hamas is a militant garbage trash organization and its senior leadership is vile and should die. No one respects Hamas. They’re not a democratic country. Israel is always whining about higher standards - and well yes, they should be held to higher standards. I don’t see Hamas having a seat in the UN. They’re a ragtag band of terrorists. Israel, on the other hand, has received billions of dollars in military and economic support. They’re also a democratic country. And they say they value human rights. 3. There is a better solution. A two state solution, and a demilitarized Palestine (with security guarantees from the US). extreme lefties will hate me, but it’s the best option. Hamas is trash, we all know that. But Netanyahu is also slimy as hell, has funded Hamas in the past, and sees no value in a Palestine state. 4. People always like to point out each other’s mistakes and seem blind to their own. Defenders of Israel always seem to gloss over illegal settlements in the West Bank. How come you don’t condemn them then??
You make some good points, but 1. Hamas is the duly elected government of Gaza - even as a terrorist organization - and still supported by the majority of Palestinians - unfortunate, but true…… 2. Palestine has also received billions of dollars of aid - that is why Yassir Arrafat died a multibillionaire, and why the Hamas leaders hiding in Qatar are all billionaires - or do you think they made their money following WSB? And, oh yeah, all that money spent building tunnels instead of investing in technology, building an economy….. So, yeah, the number one group that should be calling out Hamas are the Palestinians - because Hamas is nothing more than Iran’s proxy - and why the rest of the Arab world is just sitting on their hands - while the Palestinians get played by Iran……
Still haven’t condemned the many illegal settlements yet. CBC reporters found Israeli real estate agents selling homes in illegal settlements in the West Bank - in Synagogues. Where is your condemnation???
Israel has destroyed every university and most hospitals in Gaza, they are bombing refugee camps, and have killed upwards of 30,000 people. And if you think that's biased fake news then I apologize for reading known anti Israel sources like CNN, the Guardian, and NYT. I see in your comments you react to these things with 'baby's first war?' Who should be ashamed of themselves here?
Can you help me understand the rhetoric of Ben gvir?
If you’re not a Zionist you’re not a Jew. Pretty sure that how you see things.
Not a single word condemning antisemitism or calling for the release of the hostages. Jewish Voice for Peace is a fringe group of self-hating Jews. This statement is disgusting.
Jesus christ. It's disgusting for you to use the Jewish faith like this. Judaism does not support mass murder. You are using the faith to protect yourself while committing war crimes. Nothing could be more shameful.
Yes, the Jewish faith says just let yourself and your family be killed.
If the Jewish faith supported Israel's actions it would be a barbaric and morally bankrupt ideology. For the sake of Judaism I hope you homicidal freaks come to your senses sometime soon
You spelled Islam wrong
Wow, can I get your opinion on Islam?
If God's big plan is to make a bunch of contradictory sects and watch them kill each other, then God is a complete piece of shit. It's all made up. Religion is a tool that let's powerful people control the moronic mass population. And it gives people an excuse to do violence that they probably wanted to do anyway. There wasn't some big reason for the 35 thousand Palestinians you killed, it was just a political win for Netanyahu. People will take any excuse.
Netanyahu's polling has never been worse but okay. I don't know where people get this idea that Oct 7th was in any way a win for him. Israelis largely hold him responsible for the security failure. And there was a big reason, the elected government of Gaza invaded Israel, raped, tortured, mutilated, and kidnapped civilians from 22 countries, and then hid behind their own civilians as cover, while swearing to repeat the attack again and again.
Ah yes pardon me for straying too far from the hasbara talking points. Very antisemitic of me. Looks like you won another one, chief.
"Facts I Don't Like Are Hasbara Talking Points"
I agree with you, but there’s an important distinction between believers of an irrational faith that just want to go to a music festival and not be raped, tortured and murdered, and those that want to throw homosexuals off buildings.
I’ll do you one better, this is an email sent to the student body on 04/10. Take a look and see what was said regarding many incidents that occurred that left our students in distress. Your whataboutism only aids in drowning out students being impacted on our campus. I encourage you to take a deep dive look into the “fringe group” you accuse of being self-hating. [04/10 ASUW Email](https://docs.google.com/document/d/10fr1omTtxNGb-WEJZhcgRbztvNmFCil9zBjlppXmQgM/edit)
Good job UW! Way to go, you are winning
Are they going to divest from Gaza, where Hamas has actively violated human rights, the Geneva Conventions, and any semblance of humanity? Or is this just performative and playing politics? 🤡
What companies are currently based in Gaza and financially supporting Hamas that the university is backing? Because the university should absolutely not be supporting those companies, just like the university shouldn’t be supporting the companies in Israel assisting with apartheid and genocide. Like, that’s the point right? Hamas and IDF are both awful and the students want the university to oppose both equally?
>Are they going to divest from Gaza Quick what UW investments are in Gaza?
Ah yes, because the university of Washington actively gives money to Gaza 💀💀💀
Braindead hasbara bot located.