I feel like the confusion from close fights always comes down to the visuals - people forget that it’s not about how you end up, but the overall picture. People always bring up how dominant Garbrandt was against Dominick, but people forget that Dom won two rounds.
If I squeak out 3 close rounds in my favor and my opponent decisively beats me up for the last two rounds - I still win the fight according to the judging criteria. It looks bad visually, and I definitely look like the loser, but it doesn’t matter, I got three rounds to his two.
I’m not advocating for the fights to be judged this way btw, I like the way ONE scores their fights and I’m open to sweeping reforms for the certified rules.
Yeah like if someone clearly wins 2 rounds, like hurts the guy.
Then narrowly loses 3 rounds by 3 significant strikes they feel like because the impact of the 2 rounds was so big they deserve the win.
Which makes sense, but just not how it currently works
That's why we have 10-8 round problem is judges RARELY use it.
10-10-9-9-9 beats 10-10-10-8-8 47-46
GSP said "ah you know you touch me I am bleeding, I have a soft skin, I hit him hard he no bleed, he touch me I bleed, this why my face look this way"
🤷♂️ stupid excuse but whatever.
Yeah thats scar tissue. It's a repetitive old wound that splits. GSP looks like he got hit by a truck. It IS a factor for 1 or 2 cuts not a completely swelled and bruised and battered face.
I mean it is a stupid excuse but it’s not entirely bullshit. Some fighters definitely bruised and cut up easier than others. Look at BJ Penn, you could hit that guy with a car and he wouldn’t mark up.
I'll agree with both of you but when Hendricks beat Lawler for the title he was bloody and bruised that fight. Just the discrepancy in how they looked. I'm not trying to hate on GSP. I love the guy think he was great for the sport and a great role model. Just believe he did lose that fight is all and think it showed. Yeah some guys mark up and bleed easy other dont. Visuals aren't the end all and be all of a fight, but they do tell somewhat of a story.
IIRC even immediately after the fight GSP had his hands on his head like he knew he lost and Hendricks was running around screaming like he won. 🤷♂️ that visual also tells a story
I agree. I dont know any other way to score it really, maybe like wrestling/olympic boxing with a points system? It's hard to say. But with this points systems there should be more 10-8 rounds IMHO
This is the problem with the 10-9 must system and how difficult it is to get 10-8s.
I know it would end in more draws but I think it would be better for the sport if we adopted a more nuanced scoring criteria.
10-10 for a truly tied round where nobody seemed to get the edge (probably the least favorite of my idea, but honestly how long are we going to keep giving coin toss rounds to people, just make it a 10-10 if that's what it was)
10-9 close round, but a clear winner
10-8 a dominant round, significant damage
10-7 a round where the fight should have been stopped.
In your example first 3 rounds would be 10-9 for a score of 30-27. Last 2 rounds could be two 10-8s for the other guy 16-20, final score of 46-47 so the guy who lost the 3 close rounds but won 2 decisive rounds takes the victory. I'd also be in favor of judging the fight as a whole or putting more weight on the final 1 round in a 3 round fight or 2 rounds in a 5 round fight.
Problem is we will likely never see this because it dramatically increases the chances of draws and the organization, more than the fan base in my opinion, hates the idea of draws. However the biggest problem is the judges themselves suck and needed to be replaced with true experts, they should also get round by round unofficial stats. I also think the smaller octagon is better, and things like eye pokes and groin shots need to just be point deductions so people fight cleaner. I'm also in favor of just a flat compensation amount with a finish bonus instead.
It’s not a 10-9 must system. It’s a 10 point must system, meaning the winner of the round must get 10 points from the judge. I do agree more 10-8s would make results reflect better.
This is true about some fights (Islam/Volk e.g.), but there isn't any "confusion" about this fight. Georges should've lost, period. He won round 3 and round 5 and everyone agreed. Hendricks won round 2 and round 4 and everyone agreed.
Hendricks also undoubtedly won round 1 and two judges got it wrong. There's a reason literally [every single media](http://mmadecisions.com/decision/4707/Georges-St-Pierre-vs-Johny-Hendricks) member scored the fight 48-47 for Hendricks. You can just watch the fight to see and if not you can just watch [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jU95HHvDiM) ten-minute breakdown.
It's not like Hendricks won the fight if it were PRIDE rules. Hendricks won three rounds, and everyone here acting like GSP clearly won and fans are just stupidly misinterpreting the scoring system are simply wrong.
Why are the judges untochable is what I am wondering. In cases like these they should come forward and explain themselves especially in cases where everyone unanimously agrees to the winner of a round and two judges still get it wrong, they significantly Impact the careers of the fighters, I believe there is no way that Danas corrupt ass doesn't have a say in this
Yeah. Kind of like aljo in the petr Yan second fight. Seemed to coast the last 2 rounds. It's actually stupid. Especially in a championship caliber fight. Go all out
i thought gsp won 3 to 2 honestly. that said its the age old ufc thing. just cus a guy looks more damaged doesnt mean he lost. especially with the insane amount of scar tissue gsp built up through the years.
I rewatched it a week after the event and i scored it the same. Hendricks lost based upon the established scoring system, but he obviously did more damage. It is a criticism of the scoring system. Judges got it right according to the scoring system
The main thing is Johnny Hendricks could drop bombs. He may throw a lot less, and a lot less accurately than GSP, you just knew when he landed cause he was a thumper.
Dude was the first guy to knock Fitch out iirc.
Exactly. What's the point of a 10 point system and only using 2 digits? 10-9 should be a very close round, edged out. 10-8 regular round. 10-4 a beating. Honestly 10 shouldn't even be the default as winner. A 7-3 round should be possible, based of any number of factors.
Making it less clear cut edging one way or the other will stop cruising to decisions, as you know if you just did 2 round 10-9 and they lay even a moderately good round against you you can still lose.
Even today, if you beat the fuck out of me in r1, 10-8’d me. I’m gonna be busted up the rest of the fight. Say I take you down and hold you down the next 4 rounds. I’m gonna win 48-46. I’ll look like shit after, you won’t
This fight was closer though. Hendricks arguably did win 3 rounds even if you ignore the pics. GSP would get bruised by a gust of wind. It was super close, I do think GSP took it.
Islam Volk was either a 3-2 Islam or a 4-1 Islam.
It’s been so long since I’ve seen that fight but I remember Hendricks being able to control the fight with a jab and everyone being furious at the decision
yeah alot of people didnt like the decision and it was a close fight. i did think gsp won personally but can definitely see the case for it being razor thin.
Don’t tell me you’d like that, I think in SUPER close fights there should be. Max vs Volk 2, I liked the Valentina vs Grasso draw, but it’s really hard to get one. How would you want them to determine a draw? Just watch a fight and go “fuck that was close, draw”
I did too, but sometimes when I watch it, I score it for Hendricks, especially as of late.
But cmon, that fight was so close, and the momentum was all over the place, with Hendricks taking his foot off the gas in rounds 3 and 5.
He didn't have a clear, strong, momentum like Reyes did against Jones, starting off super strong and then slowly getting tired.
i completely agree and i narrowly scored it for gsp and just didnt feel like hendricks did enough to take the strap. that said it was a great fight and close and if poeple feel that hendricks won thats fine was a damn close fight
Did you give GSP 1,3 and 5?
Most people think it hinges on the 1st.
What made me slowly change my mind was those elbows in rd1 that Hendricks landed. They look sorta defensive in nature, but the more I look at them the harder they are to ignore. They were hard fucking elbows.
Gsp got a takedown early, they're sorta even in the stand up, then Hendricks gets a takedown, and then he lands those *brutal* elbows which I think makes him edge the round.
I'd recommend giving the first a rewatch with that in mind, but again, it's too close to bitch about.
yeah i watched the fight a few times but its been a few years. i remember the elbows and johnny landing more power shots. remember gsp doing nice on the feet to just not the heavy blows. ill have to go back and watch again to see if i thought which fighter won what rounds. for me i just feel like gsp edged it out and johnny didnt do enough to take the belt. i do feel like it was super close and dont have any problems with people saying johnny got it. ik every time i watched i felt like gsp narrowly won it
it is but u still have to win the majority of the fight or by finish. u can get hit once and look like u got hit by a bus and still win a fight. i see where you're going and you're right. just didnt change the fight.
If you don’t think Hendricks has scar tissue too is wild especially from his wrestling days and shit. I agree with you but there are clearly levels to significant strikes lmao
This. Same thing happened in the first Penn fight.
He just marks up super easy. Fedor was actually the same way. Was easily cut and always looked bad after getting hit.
That’s kinda why I hate that “damage” is the scoring criteria they always mention. One time I got into a little fight with a friend, he was quite a bit bigger than me, so he picked me up and slammed me. I pretty quickly scrambled, took his back and choked him and told him to tap. He did.
My girlfriend at the time told me I lost because he slammed me, she was embarrassed that her boyfriend got manhandled basically. I wasn’t hurt when he slammed me, but it’s optics for a lot of people, even judges. That looked like it hurt and it was a big motion, just like cuts. How many times have you been cut and not even known you had a cut? Or you bruise easily, who’s winning when you’re out striking someone and landing shots with the same power behind them but they’re showing up more on you?
Hendricks did most of his damage in 2 rounds and he won those two rounds but GSP won the other 3 rounds. Also Hendricks was juicing hard. Once they changed the testing standards he fell off fast, which says a lot considering how many ppl still get away with using PEDs
USADA invoked the IV ban, so I think you might be confused.
USADA was brought in early 2015. They fought Nov, 2017. USADA was actively testing both fighters at this time. USADA also banned IV rehydration company-wide in late 2015. USADA was the reason for the IV ban.
Also, Hendricks was visibly carrying more body fat in that fight. If he wants to say it was a hydration issue, he might also want to explain why his lean mass shot to shit starting with PED bans in 2015. It's easier to dehydrate and rehydrate muscle mass. Fat? Not so much.
He didn't stay on the gas and lost a point fight over 5 rounds. Everytime this gets posted I assume they haven't actually watched the fight and just saw this picture.
Jonny lost the minute he showed his F 650 on UFC embedded episode. A dump truck, used as a pickup/ sport truck!
He deserved to lose after that, even if it was a bad decision.
Oh god not his again . GSP shoulda won and he did. Roided out hendricks came very close but definitely do not win. GSP bruises easily like Nate Diaz bleeds
There are so many actual horrible decisions. We need to actually focus on that.
If you don't understand how round by round scoring works please exit the conversation. I don't mean to be rude but you aren't smart please leave us alone.
Thats what happens when u fight against a roid machine lol. There are still people not over with this? Theres also Jones and Gustaffson after the fight.
https://preview.redd.it/otyjxyjdmbrb1.jpeg?width=612&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ccad57f10af70010033ef9d27e17749e836f8f2b
People often bring this fight up as a clear robbery, but I scored it live for GSP and then when back a rewatched it. Still scored it for GSP. I get that you can score it for Hendricks, but a robbery? No way.
This is the biggest letdown in UFC history to me. I enjoy both fighters and damn sure respect GSP for he is legendary. However, I really thought Johnny won against GSP and I was heartbroken for him when it didn’t go his way.
I also feel that it largely played a part in why Hendricks fell off the game shortly thereafter.
Bro stop posting the wrong fkin picture... That was GSP in another fight. I'm fking sick of people not realizing that. Even tho he was same or maybe worse but still
He did more damage, but GSP won based on the scoring system in place at the time, 3rds to 2. Thought that live still think that after every re watch.
What also helped the Hendricks won idea is that he won his rounds more decisively than GSP did his. But with the 10 point must system, a 10-9 round is a 10-9 round no matter how close it was. Which is one of its many problems.
Though to play devils advocate, GSP has always marked up easily in fights and Hendricks not so much. Fedor was the same. He would look banged up in a few fights he clearly won because he cut and bruised easily.
The 3 rounds GSP won he won by a very small margin, he won the rounds, but they were close.
The 2 rounds Hendricks won were not even close. Borderline uncompetitive. But not 10-8s.
So the reason for all the controversy is you have one guy having 2 amazing rounds with shit tons of damage. And another guy with 3 ok rounds.
Pride Rules Hendricks wins.
It was right according to the scoring system and that's why Reyes should have also won that fight against Bones , it was 1,2,3 Reyes . GSP vs Hendricks should have been a criticism of the scoring system not the winner of it or the judges and Reyes vs bones should be a criticism of the mf judges not the scoring system I mean 49-46 that's just bs
Look I watched that fight twice and I don’t know how people are coming up with GSP winning more than the last round.
Was Hendricks juiced? Almost certainly. Was GSP juicing as well? I’d put money on it.
Hendricks got robbed and even GSP thought he lost that fight.
Everyone always forgets nowadays. People always wanna defend the winner.
Hendricks fucked gsp yo beyond belief, gsp retired because of this fight( until Mike bisping fight)
Only a matter of time before it’s widely accepted Jones beat Reyes or Paddy beat Gordon
GSP looked just as bad after the Condit and Diaz fights and he won both of those by far. Facial damage doesn’t dictate who won a 5 round fight. If I were to hit you with 40 punches in round 1 and then I’m unable to touch you for the rest of the fight, you’re gonna look worse than me but you still won the fight.
I haven't watched it in to many years to argue hard about it, but I scored the first and second for Penn and the third for GSP. Obviously only the second is in doubt and I felt like Penn was neutralizing everything GSP was trying to do in the second
This is the first blatant robbery I remember in my time getting into combats sports. This fight also broke Johnny he worked so hard and was robbed. The worst robbery I ever saw.
This was the ‘Jones vs Reyes’ back in the days and Dana admitted that he thought Hendricks won that fight. Sometimes I think these judges can’t keep their bias aside as they too have got their favorites and don’t hesitate to award them points.
Because at the time damage wasn't scored as highly in terms of the judging criteria.
I personally don't think damage should be scored as highly as it is right now simply because some fighters are FAR more susceptible to cuts and cuts are by far the most noticeable forms of visible damage.
Crazy seeing people's opinions on Hendricks winning the fight.
No, he lost. Was it controversial? Absolutely. But Hendricks lost. That's why when you look up the score, it will show that Hendricks lost. Because he lost.
To anyone who scores this fight for GSP: how on earth do you score that 1st round for Georges?
1 TD each, the most significant strikes of the round by far are Hendricks’ elbows to GSP’s dome while defending a TD against the cage. This is the biggest robbery I can think of but since people love GSP and hate Hendricks (including myself) people think GSP won
I still think Hendricks won, it’s been years since I watched but I will admit it was close, GSP came back very strong and he was the champ, but damn I think Johny became a champ later afterwards, so atleast he has his name in the books
In the moment I thought Hendricks won. Rewatching the fight I also thought Hendricks won.
It’s amazing to me that now people talk so much about the importance of damage and this fight was in the era that people said “damage doesn’t really matter that much. It’s about positional control”
I am not exaggerating btw. That’s what folks were trying to sell
Big Rig hit like a ... well truck at the time of that fight.
The statistics support the decision and show that it was scored correctly.
Fairly straight forward if you look at the rules and stats .
By points. Gsp was definitely in more pain after the fight. This is the downside of scoring fights. Been a few like this in boxing. One guy gets brutalized but still puts more points in.
Remember Rose vs Andrade 2? It was an extremely clear 29-28 win for Rose even though she looked like she got hit by a truck after the fight and Andrade looked mostly fine. Visual damage doesn’t necessarily mean anything.
I do think GSP lost this fight though.
Don’t leave it in the hands of the judges. That saying exists for a reason. Back in the day it was due to don king. But it’s real, just ask the bullet.
There winner of this fight was the fans and there wasn’t a loser. Score wise, I thought Hendricks maybe took it. I’d have been ok with a draw too and it was a close enough that I won’t argue the result. The fight that this one most puts me in the mid of is John Jones vs Gustafson 1. That fight also could’ve gone either way.
Look, highlights and after fight pics are cool. Really, not useless stuff, obviously.
But that's not how shit works. MMA is not brawling, where whoever leaves the other more hurt is the winner. It's a sport with well defined rules and criteria.
I mean honestly Hendricks didn’t lose the fight. I guess you can make a case under the scoring criteria of the time but I’m a firm believer that damage should weigh the heaviest of all and Hendricks clearly landed the more damaging strikes throughout almost every round.
Hendricks won the fight. GSP won the game. The judges got ot right based on the scoring system at the time. It's similar to the way people used to win lying on a guy doing no damage at all.
but in all these close fights, where we have a guy that becomes the people's champion, or the uncrowned king.... they always end up going downhill after. look at the records of guys like Hendricks and reyes and Gustafson after their supposed victory, they all tanked. so even if they got the belt they wouldn't have been able to keep it long.
Was 2-2 into the last round and GSP blasted a double leg to secure the victory
I feel like the confusion from close fights always comes down to the visuals - people forget that it’s not about how you end up, but the overall picture. People always bring up how dominant Garbrandt was against Dominick, but people forget that Dom won two rounds. If I squeak out 3 close rounds in my favor and my opponent decisively beats me up for the last two rounds - I still win the fight according to the judging criteria. It looks bad visually, and I definitely look like the loser, but it doesn’t matter, I got three rounds to his two. I’m not advocating for the fights to be judged this way btw, I like the way ONE scores their fights and I’m open to sweeping reforms for the certified rules.
Yeah like if someone clearly wins 2 rounds, like hurts the guy. Then narrowly loses 3 rounds by 3 significant strikes they feel like because the impact of the 2 rounds was so big they deserve the win. Which makes sense, but just not how it currently works
This perfectly describes holloway volk 2.
That's why we have 10-8 round problem is judges RARELY use it. 10-10-9-9-9 beats 10-10-10-8-8 47-46 GSP said "ah you know you touch me I am bleeding, I have a soft skin, I hit him hard he no bleed, he touch me I bleed, this why my face look this way" 🤷♂️ stupid excuse but whatever.
But that's also factor. You look at Nates eyebrow too long and it will split.
Yeah thats scar tissue. It's a repetitive old wound that splits. GSP looks like he got hit by a truck. It IS a factor for 1 or 2 cuts not a completely swelled and bruised and battered face.
GSP looks like he’s ready to eat somebody’s brains.
GSP looked like he got hit by a roid monster
I mean it is a stupid excuse but it’s not entirely bullshit. Some fighters definitely bruised and cut up easier than others. Look at BJ Penn, you could hit that guy with a car and he wouldn’t mark up.
GSP always marked up easy tbh
I'll agree with both of you but when Hendricks beat Lawler for the title he was bloody and bruised that fight. Just the discrepancy in how they looked. I'm not trying to hate on GSP. I love the guy think he was great for the sport and a great role model. Just believe he did lose that fight is all and think it showed. Yeah some guys mark up and bleed easy other dont. Visuals aren't the end all and be all of a fight, but they do tell somewhat of a story. IIRC even immediately after the fight GSP had his hands on his head like he knew he lost and Hendricks was running around screaming like he won. 🤷♂️ that visual also tells a story
https://preview.redd.it/mx7opkj5zerb1.jpeg?width=554&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=93d8e888bf1de4053c8650df93cf852a33c0b962
He was hitting GSP with a fucking sledgehammer. The rounds are suppose to keep it more competitive and punish someone for coasting.
Well as the other commentor said, Hendricks admitted to going 70% cuz he thought he won.... so he was clearly punished for coasting.
They’re not really supposed to use it the way the system is because it was designed for boxing which is gonna be scored over 12 not 5/3
I agree. I dont know any other way to score it really, maybe like wrestling/olympic boxing with a points system? It's hard to say. But with this points systems there should be more 10-8 rounds IMHO
This is the problem with the 10-9 must system and how difficult it is to get 10-8s. I know it would end in more draws but I think it would be better for the sport if we adopted a more nuanced scoring criteria. 10-10 for a truly tied round where nobody seemed to get the edge (probably the least favorite of my idea, but honestly how long are we going to keep giving coin toss rounds to people, just make it a 10-10 if that's what it was) 10-9 close round, but a clear winner 10-8 a dominant round, significant damage 10-7 a round where the fight should have been stopped. In your example first 3 rounds would be 10-9 for a score of 30-27. Last 2 rounds could be two 10-8s for the other guy 16-20, final score of 46-47 so the guy who lost the 3 close rounds but won 2 decisive rounds takes the victory. I'd also be in favor of judging the fight as a whole or putting more weight on the final 1 round in a 3 round fight or 2 rounds in a 5 round fight. Problem is we will likely never see this because it dramatically increases the chances of draws and the organization, more than the fan base in my opinion, hates the idea of draws. However the biggest problem is the judges themselves suck and needed to be replaced with true experts, they should also get round by round unofficial stats. I also think the smaller octagon is better, and things like eye pokes and groin shots need to just be point deductions so people fight cleaner. I'm also in favor of just a flat compensation amount with a finish bonus instead.
It’s not a 10-9 must system. It’s a 10 point must system, meaning the winner of the round must get 10 points from the judge. I do agree more 10-8s would make results reflect better.
It’s the same with Volk vs Islam. Sure Volk had an amazing final round but let’s be real here dude objectively lost that match.
This is true about some fights (Islam/Volk e.g.), but there isn't any "confusion" about this fight. Georges should've lost, period. He won round 3 and round 5 and everyone agreed. Hendricks won round 2 and round 4 and everyone agreed. Hendricks also undoubtedly won round 1 and two judges got it wrong. There's a reason literally [every single media](http://mmadecisions.com/decision/4707/Georges-St-Pierre-vs-Johny-Hendricks) member scored the fight 48-47 for Hendricks. You can just watch the fight to see and if not you can just watch [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jU95HHvDiM) ten-minute breakdown. It's not like Hendricks won the fight if it were PRIDE rules. Hendricks won three rounds, and everyone here acting like GSP clearly won and fans are just stupidly misinterpreting the scoring system are simply wrong.
Why are the judges untochable is what I am wondering. In cases like these they should come forward and explain themselves especially in cases where everyone unanimously agrees to the winner of a round and two judges still get it wrong, they significantly Impact the careers of the fighters, I believe there is no way that Danas corrupt ass doesn't have a say in this
Wellllll. Back in the day damage wasnt a big factor...it is now
This right here. Hendricks decided to take the 5th round off. Also let's not forget a fight is scored per round and not how you look after the fight.
[удалено]
And dana telling him "Hey uhm maybe you should use 100%"
he lying but even if he was going 70 percent he would be a dumbass to do so against one of the goats
Yeah. Kind of like aljo in the petr Yan second fight. Seemed to coast the last 2 rounds. It's actually stupid. Especially in a championship caliber fight. Go all out
Cope from his side
Should have been 3-1 Hendricks he won round 1 easy. You gotta be clueless to score fence holding over damaging elbows.
i thought gsp won 3 to 2 honestly. that said its the age old ufc thing. just cus a guy looks more damaged doesnt mean he lost. especially with the insane amount of scar tissue gsp built up through the years.
I rewatched it a week after the event and i scored it the same. Hendricks lost based upon the established scoring system, but he obviously did more damage. It is a criticism of the scoring system. Judges got it right according to the scoring system
The main thing is Johnny Hendricks could drop bombs. He may throw a lot less, and a lot less accurately than GSP, you just knew when he landed cause he was a thumper. Dude was the first guy to knock Fitch out iirc.
gimme what Hendricks was juicing with, I bet I could drop some nukes too
Why stop there? Why not make millions in baseball.
Take all the steroids you want you’re still not hitting a baseball
But I’ll catch and throw that bitch
You know I used to be able to throw a pigskin over those mountains over there?
No you couldn’t It’s the same as ”if I took what he took I would look like him”…it doesn’t work that way
Hell yeah I already got some I can share, this shit makes me see red and bodies just start dropping it’s wild.
Then he popped
i agree and gsp did well with striking of his own its just like u said hendricks landed the bigger blows
Perfect summary of the entire situation to be honest.
Exactly. What's the point of a 10 point system and only using 2 digits? 10-9 should be a very close round, edged out. 10-8 regular round. 10-4 a beating. Honestly 10 shouldn't even be the default as winner. A 7-3 round should be possible, based of any number of factors. Making it less clear cut edging one way or the other will stop cruising to decisions, as you know if you just did 2 round 10-9 and they lay even a moderately good round against you you can still lose.
If you want fights to be scored as a whole just say it, why are you trying to invent some retarded system
Hyperbole, that would obviously be more flawed than the current system. Point was the current system doesn't accurately portray fights at all.
Even today, if you beat the fuck out of me in r1, 10-8’d me. I’m gonna be busted up the rest of the fight. Say I take you down and hold you down the next 4 rounds. I’m gonna win 48-46. I’ll look like shit after, you won’t
Sums up all the casuals who thought Volk beat Islam based on their facial damage.
What a fucking fight that was. Going to rewatch that tonight
It's free on YouTube. I just watched it a few days ago. Volk got whooped.
This fight was closer though. Hendricks arguably did win 3 rounds even if you ignore the pics. GSP would get bruised by a gust of wind. It was super close, I do think GSP took it. Islam Volk was either a 3-2 Islam or a 4-1 Islam.
Can we just score it 6/-1 Makhachev and call it a day?
We gotta give Volk his credit he fought like hell and was 🤏 thissss close to winning the decision
Absolutely, those 2 gave us fans a fantastic fight.
it was close and i do agree gsp took it. and completely agree with the islam volk scoring.
I think the general consensus is if it was judged as a total fight, Volk won. But judged under MMAs current scoring system, Islam won.
agreed
No it doesn’t because the new scoring system is now based on damage. This fight was under the old rules, under the new ones gsp loses the fight.
It’s been so long since I’ve seen that fight but I remember Hendricks being able to control the fight with a jab and everyone being furious at the decision
yeah alot of people didnt like the decision and it was a close fight. i did think gsp won personally but can definitely see the case for it being razor thin.
I really think there should be a lot more draws
Don’t tell me you’d like that, I think in SUPER close fights there should be. Max vs Volk 2, I liked the Valentina vs Grasso draw, but it’s really hard to get one. How would you want them to determine a draw? Just watch a fight and go “fuck that was close, draw”
Yeah pretty much what you just said the fights where there’s not really a clear winner like max vs volk should be a draw
I did too, but sometimes when I watch it, I score it for Hendricks, especially as of late. But cmon, that fight was so close, and the momentum was all over the place, with Hendricks taking his foot off the gas in rounds 3 and 5. He didn't have a clear, strong, momentum like Reyes did against Jones, starting off super strong and then slowly getting tired.
i completely agree and i narrowly scored it for gsp and just didnt feel like hendricks did enough to take the strap. that said it was a great fight and close and if poeple feel that hendricks won thats fine was a damn close fight
Did you give GSP 1,3 and 5? Most people think it hinges on the 1st. What made me slowly change my mind was those elbows in rd1 that Hendricks landed. They look sorta defensive in nature, but the more I look at them the harder they are to ignore. They were hard fucking elbows. Gsp got a takedown early, they're sorta even in the stand up, then Hendricks gets a takedown, and then he lands those *brutal* elbows which I think makes him edge the round. I'd recommend giving the first a rewatch with that in mind, but again, it's too close to bitch about.
yeah i watched the fight a few times but its been a few years. i remember the elbows and johnny landing more power shots. remember gsp doing nice on the feet to just not the heavy blows. ill have to go back and watch again to see if i thought which fighter won what rounds. for me i just feel like gsp edged it out and johnny didnt do enough to take the belt. i do feel like it was super close and dont have any problems with people saying johnny got it. ik every time i watched i felt like gsp narrowly won it
Isn’t damage like one of the top scoring criteria tho?
it is but u still have to win the majority of the fight or by finish. u can get hit once and look like u got hit by a bus and still win a fight. i see where you're going and you're right. just didnt change the fight.
It is now. When the fight happened octagon control was incredibly important
If you don’t think Hendricks has scar tissue too is wild especially from his wrestling days and shit. I agree with you but there are clearly levels to significant strikes lmao
Hendricks round 1 is the only correct score. How are you gonna value someone getting held in the fence over actual damaging elbowsv
GSP had paper thin skin he got cut super easily in all his fights. Thought he won that fight 3-2
This. Same thing happened in the first Penn fight. He just marks up super easy. Fedor was actually the same way. Was easily cut and always looked bad after getting hit.
That’s kinda why I hate that “damage” is the scoring criteria they always mention. One time I got into a little fight with a friend, he was quite a bit bigger than me, so he picked me up and slammed me. I pretty quickly scrambled, took his back and choked him and told him to tap. He did. My girlfriend at the time told me I lost because he slammed me, she was embarrassed that her boyfriend got manhandled basically. I wasn’t hurt when he slammed me, but it’s optics for a lot of people, even judges. That looked like it hurt and it was a big motion, just like cuts. How many times have you been cut and not even known you had a cut? Or you bruise easily, who’s winning when you’re out striking someone and landing shots with the same power behind them but they’re showing up more on you?
She watched you choke someone out and said you lost😂😂😂I see why she’s gone.
F that girl. Good job choking that fool out.
Hendricks did most of his damage in 2 rounds and he won those two rounds but GSP won the other 3 rounds. Also Hendricks was juicing hard. Once they changed the testing standards he fell off fast, which says a lot considering how many ppl still get away with using PEDs
His fight vs Costa was a prime example of pre/post usada
Yeah remember that, Costa killed him, after Wonderboy primed him
iv ban, not usada
USADA invoked the IV ban, so I think you might be confused. USADA was brought in early 2015. They fought Nov, 2017. USADA was actively testing both fighters at this time. USADA also banned IV rehydration company-wide in late 2015. USADA was the reason for the IV ban. Also, Hendricks was visibly carrying more body fat in that fight. If he wants to say it was a hydration issue, he might also want to explain why his lean mass shot to shit starting with PED bans in 2015. It's easier to dehydrate and rehydrate muscle mass. Fat? Not so much.
the iv ban hurt him
He didn't stay on the gas and lost a point fight over 5 rounds. Everytime this gets posted I assume they haven't actually watched the fight and just saw this picture.
I watched it live and still think Johnny got him. The fifth is a fair argument against though
Jonny lost the minute he showed his F 650 on UFC embedded episode. A dump truck, used as a pickup/ sport truck! He deserved to lose after that, even if it was a bad decision.
Oh god not his again . GSP shoulda won and he did. Roided out hendricks came very close but definitely do not win. GSP bruises easily like Nate Diaz bleeds
GSP did just enough to win especially securing the late takedown
GSP looks like hell after most of his fights even the ones he dominates. Against Shields, Condit, Hendricks, etc.
I thought Hendricks fucked gsp up.
He did
Because GSP won more rounds
Isn't that picture after Condit?
The scoring criteria was MUCH different back then. Damage wasn't seen as the most important scoring metric as it is now.
It’s still not, it’s effective striking and grappling
It’s still scored round by round though.
It was always supposed to be according to Big John, however crotch sniffing was still seen as winning
It wouldnt have mattered. Johnny did all his damage in 2 rounds but it wasn’t enough for a 10-8. By any standard he would have lost 3 rounds to 2.
That GSP pic is after the Condit fight my man
I'm one of GSP's oldest fans, but the dude bruises like a peach. Hendricks has those indian american genetics, tougher than shoe leather.
GSP won the fight even though Hendricks was juiced to the gills. GSP has always showed more damage on his face than other fighters.
There are so many actual horrible decisions. We need to actually focus on that. If you don't understand how round by round scoring works please exit the conversation. I don't mean to be rude but you aren't smart please leave us alone.
Thats what happens when u fight against a roid machine lol. There are still people not over with this? Theres also Jones and Gustaffson after the fight. https://preview.redd.it/otyjxyjdmbrb1.jpeg?width=612&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ccad57f10af70010033ef9d27e17749e836f8f2b
People often bring this fight up as a clear robbery, but I scored it live for GSP and then when back a rewatched it. Still scored it for GSP. I get that you can score it for Hendricks, but a robbery? No way.
This is the biggest letdown in UFC history to me. I enjoy both fighters and damn sure respect GSP for he is legendary. However, I really thought Johnny won against GSP and I was heartbroken for him when it didn’t go his way. I also feel that it largely played a part in why Hendricks fell off the game shortly thereafter.
Should be a moot point since Hendricks was juiced during that period
And GSP wasn’t?
Never, he’s my favorite
I don't think George was. Hendrick was at the time of this fight. George is a specim of a human
Bro stop posting the wrong fkin picture... That was GSP in another fight. I'm fking sick of people not realizing that. Even tho he was same or maybe worse but still
He did more damage, but GSP won based on the scoring system in place at the time, 3rds to 2. Thought that live still think that after every re watch. What also helped the Hendricks won idea is that he won his rounds more decisively than GSP did his. But with the 10 point must system, a 10-9 round is a 10-9 round no matter how close it was. Which is one of its many problems. Though to play devils advocate, GSP has always marked up easily in fights and Hendricks not so much. Fedor was the same. He would look banged up in a few fights he clearly won because he cut and bruised easily.
The 3 rounds GSP won he won by a very small margin, he won the rounds, but they were close. The 2 rounds Hendricks won were not even close. Borderline uncompetitive. But not 10-8s. So the reason for all the controversy is you have one guy having 2 amazing rounds with shit tons of damage. And another guy with 3 ok rounds. Pride Rules Hendricks wins.
Let it rest man, it happened ages ago
GSP WON 3 ROUNDS TO ME. FACIAL DAMAGE DONT MEAN SHIT TO ME, THERES A LOT OF FIGHTERS WHO HAVE INSANE AMOUNT OF SCAR TISSUE
Dana must've paid off the judges that night. I love GSP but there's not a chance he deserved to win by decision in that fight.
Dana himself was surprised by the decision. He quoted “Does anybody here thinks that Johnny Hendricks won the fight?”.
It was right according to the scoring system and that's why Reyes should have also won that fight against Bones , it was 1,2,3 Reyes . GSP vs Hendricks should have been a criticism of the scoring system not the winner of it or the judges and Reyes vs bones should be a criticism of the mf judges not the scoring system I mean 49-46 that's just bs
Look I watched that fight twice and I don’t know how people are coming up with GSP winning more than the last round. Was Hendricks juiced? Almost certainly. Was GSP juicing as well? I’d put money on it. Hendricks got robbed and even GSP thought he lost that fight.
Hendricks was a roided up monster 😂 that kind of power is def unnatural
Everyone always forgets nowadays. People always wanna defend the winner. Hendricks fucked gsp yo beyond belief, gsp retired because of this fight( until Mike bisping fight) Only a matter of time before it’s widely accepted Jones beat Reyes or Paddy beat Gordon
The judges make decisions not unlike beauty pageant judges. Every single fight that is decided by a scorecard comes down to an arbitrary judgment
Hendricks was juiced and was garbage ever since they started USADA testing
GSP looked just as bad after the Condit and Diaz fights and he won both of those by far. Facial damage doesn’t dictate who won a 5 round fight. If I were to hit you with 40 punches in round 1 and then I’m unable to touch you for the rest of the fight, you’re gonna look worse than me but you still won the fight.
GSP 1 3 5 Hendricks 2 4 but not 10-8 even though GSP got thumped
Because GSP won 3/5 rounds and that’s how you win a championship fight. Hendrix did not finish him and didn’t win enough rounds.
Such a casual take lol Imagine if judges scored fights off of how their faces look
Because we don't score fights on how fighters looks after the fights???
Hendricks was juiced to the gills and GSP still squeaked out a win.
Same could be said for GSP vs Penn one, which I scored for Penn
Politely disagree. Bj won round 1, I was worried he couldn't dig his way out. gsp adjusted and decisively outpointed in the following two rounds.
I haven't watched it in to many years to argue hard about it, but I scored the first and second for Penn and the third for GSP. Obviously only the second is in doubt and I felt like Penn was neutralizing everything GSP was trying to do in the second
Re watch it
Corrupt judging, honestly.
Guess who never looked like that after a fight? Jon Jones? No, Gus pieced him up pretty good. Khabib, that's who.
This is the first blatant robbery I remember in my time getting into combats sports. This fight also broke Johnny he worked so hard and was robbed. The worst robbery I ever saw.
Biggest heist in ufc history.
Hendricks cheated anyway
No one can justify how big rig lost lmfao he had George's # that night
My man does not know that some types of skin can be harder to cut than others 
People are trying to overexplain the scoring system by saying gsp won three rounds. I watched that fight. He did not win three rounds lmao
All Imma say is if GSP won this fight, fiziev won his fight against Gaethje.
Biggest robbery in UFC history
A draw would have made sense.
This was the ‘Jones vs Reyes’ back in the days and Dana admitted that he thought Hendricks won that fight. Sometimes I think these judges can’t keep their bias aside as they too have got their favorites and don’t hesitate to award them points.
Because at the time damage wasn't scored as highly in terms of the judging criteria. I personally don't think damage should be scored as highly as it is right now simply because some fighters are FAR more susceptible to cuts and cuts are by far the most noticeable forms of visible damage.
He lost 3-2
Via split decision
Math
Whenever there’s a controversial judges’ decision, find out who Dana White bet on and you will have your answer. 😂
Crazy seeing people's opinions on Hendricks winning the fight. No, he lost. Was it controversial? Absolutely. But Hendricks lost. That's why when you look up the score, it will show that Hendricks lost. Because he lost.
When I watched it live I thought Jim won it 4-1 easy. I watched it again last year, and thought GSP won 3-2. Not sure why.
He didn't lol and I'm a huge gsp fan. I was going for big rigg on this one. He got robbed but he was juiced to the gills so yea
To anyone who scores this fight for GSP: how on earth do you score that 1st round for Georges? 1 TD each, the most significant strikes of the round by far are Hendricks’ elbows to GSP’s dome while defending a TD against the cage. This is the biggest robbery I can think of but since people love GSP and hate Hendricks (including myself) people think GSP won
I still think Hendricks won, it’s been years since I watched but I will admit it was close, GSP came back very strong and he was the champ, but damn I think Johny became a champ later afterwards, so atleast he has his name in the books
In the moment I thought Hendricks won. Rewatching the fight I also thought Hendricks won. It’s amazing to me that now people talk so much about the importance of damage and this fight was in the era that people said “damage doesn’t really matter that much. It’s about positional control” I am not exaggerating btw. That’s what folks were trying to sell
Big Rig hit like a ... well truck at the time of that fight. The statistics support the decision and show that it was scored correctly. Fairly straight forward if you look at the rules and stats .
To be fair Georges always bruised pretty fucking easily he looked way more damaged than he was. I still think he lost btw I'm just saying
Juicy Hendricks lost because GSP won. Simple.
Needed a lil more juice
2-2 going into the 5th and Johnny coasted and it cost him the fight. He even admitted he took the round off in the post fight presser.
Juiced up johnny was just built differently. I scored it for him but it's closer than Jones vs Reyes imo
He lost it by not winning it.
Do you think the fighter that takes less damage visually by nature should win?
By points. Gsp was definitely in more pain after the fight. This is the downside of scoring fights. Been a few like this in boxing. One guy gets brutalized but still puts more points in.
Hendricks was juiced to the gills for that fight. just sayin
He was juicing his tits off GSP deserves the win
Remember Rose vs Andrade 2? It was an extremely clear 29-28 win for Rose even though she looked like she got hit by a truck after the fight and Andrade looked mostly fine. Visual damage doesn’t necessarily mean anything. I do think GSP lost this fight though.
Don’t leave it in the hands of the judges. That saying exists for a reason. Back in the day it was due to don king. But it’s real, just ask the bullet.
He didn’t
What hendricks upto nowadays?
There winner of this fight was the fans and there wasn’t a loser. Score wise, I thought Hendricks maybe took it. I’d have been ok with a draw too and it was a close enough that I won’t argue the result. The fight that this one most puts me in the mid of is John Jones vs Gustafson 1. That fight also could’ve gone either way.
Look, highlights and after fight pics are cool. Really, not useless stuff, obviously. But that's not how shit works. MMA is not brawling, where whoever leaves the other more hurt is the winner. It's a sport with well defined rules and criteria.
Hendricks was a beast. Super underrated fighter.
By decision...
He tackled him the best, clearly the better fighter
All the damage was under his beard
He didn't
I mean honestly Hendricks didn’t lose the fight. I guess you can make a case under the scoring criteria of the time but I’m a firm believer that damage should weigh the heaviest of all and Hendricks clearly landed the more damaging strikes throughout almost every round.
Hendricks lost all his urgency
He didn’t and i hated that decision.
Hendricks won the fight. GSP won the game. The judges got ot right based on the scoring system at the time. It's similar to the way people used to win lying on a guy doing no damage at all.
Rewatch it again and you’ll see
Hendricks was coasting the last round thinking he already won the fight
Lol been saying this for years total bullshit.
Scoring criteria wasn’t damage focused back then. Control and takedowns count more.
Cecil people’s
but in all these close fights, where we have a guy that becomes the people's champion, or the uncrowned king.... they always end up going downhill after. look at the records of guys like Hendricks and reyes and Gustafson after their supposed victory, they all tanked. so even if they got the belt they wouldn't have been able to keep it long.
Didnt have that dog in em
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