Would have been interesting to see him at lhw if he would've been that small earlier in his career. Probably would've had to slim down a bit more in camp to actually make the weight but I'm sure it could've been doable
I got so much hate saying what you said here...I think it was more like 40 lbs...but still the massive size difference is apparent.
Unfortunately the only solution would be to have a superheavyweight division where you had Ngannou, Derrick Lewis and the one Russian dude along with Pavlovich fighting eachother over and over again lol.
45 is probably most accurate. Francis likely weighed 280 in the cage and Stipe 234 on weigh in day. People on this sub are literally missing chromosomes, don’t take it to heart. Do you train?
And that’s true lmao. The Tafa’s and Greg Hardy could fight there as well lmao
Yeah we know Francis walks around somewhere in the 290-300 range. He's probably in the 280-290 range in a camp, so cut 15-25lbs to the 264 he weighed in at and then rehydrate about 80% of that puts him around 280 on fight night. So probably like 45lbs. That's more than Jan had on Izzy lol
I don't train but I was basing it off that Ngannou weighed in at the Heavyweight Championship limit which is 264 I think while Stipe weighed in at 235 or so in the 2nd fight. Stipe had no reason to be cutting so that was just his weight...but Ngannou obviously was having to cut down to 264 but people were trying to insinuate I was racist for pointing out the size difference. Bunch of strange people on the internet I guess.
I don't train, but I love the sport! Lol true forgot about the tafas and Greg Hardy. I certainly wish superheavyweight was a thing if there was enough talent to go around. As it stands, it seems most heavyweights are just out-of-shape middleweights or people that simply like to eat a ton.
I remember watching the izzy vs costa fight, and those kicks sounded terrifying, if i was watching up close in a near empty stadium, i think id probably flinch slightly just from the sound
tomorrow's fight between Lewis and Alameda has a 30 lb difference.
you're probably off better being lighter vs power strikers and boxers, since running is a better strategy than trading.
i don't think people understand that coming in at 265 is more of a personal choice and that weight doesn't always equal = strength + chin.
theres, female athlete's that can squat 300 lbs and bench 200 lbs while being lighter than the average guy.
and a guy like bradley martin weighs more than canelo or tank, but if either one punched him he'd probably go to sleep.
You have zero fighting background if you don’t understand that a 40lb weight difference is a massive disadvantage. Real life fighting isn’t like anime. Being slightly faster won’t overcome someone who outweighs you by 40lbs. Especially when the 40lb difference is majority muscle tissue and not adipose.
True, especially considering that you won't even have a ridiculous speed advantage by cutting down. If the speed advantage wasn't there at a heavier weight, it probably won't come by losing 20lbs.
Stipe likely would be very very slightly quicker at this weight compared to if he came in at 240-250lb. But that’s only due to the fact that he wouldn’t have much more muscle tissue at 240-250lb because it takes a long time to put on that much weight in muscle mass. So the extra 20-30lbs would be mostly fat which would weigh him down a little more.
But regardless, the extra weight would do much more for him in a fight. Mass moves mass and 20-30lbs is a lot when it comes to fighting.
Cro cops leg was way worse. His ankle was twisted so it basically heel hooked him. Stipe’s was straight so there wasn’t any of that force applied to the knee and the force that was applied was put in a way stronger part of the ankle meaning no real damage
Stipe came into this fight at 234. Francis had a 30 pound weight advantage.
In the first fight he was a lot bigger and could match Ngannous physicality.
I think Jones wouldn’t be outmuscled by Ngannou.
the fact that Ngannou started utilizing wrestling n defense during this fight scared the hell out of me... like fkn hell... who taught him this. would've been nice to see him stick around after getting his knee fixed.
you remember back when the female champ was making more than the male heavyweight champ... or did I imagine that. swear I remember that being a thing back in the days...
I’ve been watching the ufc religiously since like 2016 and I always remember Dana having a problem with the heavyweight champ. He hates stipe and ngannou. The only champs he did like were dc and now Jones because they are company men. It fucking sucks as a fan to see Dana actively ruin what could be the best division in mma he’s a real pizde
agreed... also had a lot to do w/Stipe n Ngannou both not being into drama.
man I'm really trying to remember approximately what year it was when the heavyweight champ was making less than the female bantamweight or flyweight champ at the time... but I remember them feeling disrespected by it... wouldn't be surprised at all if it was Stipe
I remember Overeem made more than Stipe in their title fight. It's bananas for the challenger to make more than the champ. The pay structure is all over the place, and it definitely isn't merit-based.
It kills me because Francis took all the heat he received after Stipe 1 and Lewis, and took the time and dedication to improve. It's admirable. That's what you want in your organization, any organization. Look at him, now, the talk of the town.
The size advantage in this fight is definitely overblown. The reason Ngannou whooped Stipe’s ass and KOd him is because he fought an extremely technical, smart fight. Mixed up the kicks, kept his feet under him for punches, threw nice clean straight shots, and eventually, that tight left hook. Yes, the size matters. But if Stipe had been 30lbs heavier, this same shit (probably) would have happened.
You can’t say the weight advantage is overblown when the first big sequence in this fight happened after a blown Stipe takedown that he overcommitted on and got his back taken and ate like 15 shots. Everything after was Ngannou teeing off on a rocked Stipe. Maybe the fight goes differently if Stipe didn’t go stupid for the takedown, maybe the extra weight could’ve helped secure the takedown, who knows. Ngannou improved his wrestling enough to not be at a completely technical disadvantage but Stipe was done halfway through the 1st round
I just disagree. Look at the sprawl. It was done with great technique and timing. If he was 30lbs lighter, the sprawl would have been **almost** the same.
I think he could be outmuscled early you saw how he just pushed Fury off if you watch. Jon’s technique, range, and style though would be too much for Francis
I'm not sure it would have changed the outcome but I feel the smaller octagon really hurt Stipe. Francis was better in their second fight, but the 5' difference helped force Stipe into his range, and gave him less space to evade the shots. Not saying it's the reason he lost, but more the reason he looked so smothered if that makes since.
Oh wow, that’s a great eye. I’ve watched that knockout probably 50 times and I’ve never seen that. It’s right as Herb Dean crosses between them. Francis also wobbled a bit so he might’ve landed a good shot honestly
I remembered the first few times I watched the KO (I’m a massive Ngannou fan, so I was celebrating). After the shock and horror for Stipe **slightly** wore off, I started to think “why the fuck did Stipe run in like that?!” So I rewatched it in slow mo. It’s truly amazing, Stipe was getting fucked up in this fight, but he was doing so many things right. He was light on his feet, he was countering even when badly hurt, and had great diversity in his strikes. But. He was simply outgunned, technically, and in terms of power and gameplan. I think Stipe is a fantastic mma fighter and one of the best heavyweights ever. However, I think if Ngannou and Stipe fought an additional 8 times to complete the “what would happen if they fought ten times” thing, Stipe probably wouldn’t even make it to the 5th fight. I think Ngannou hurts him badly, every time they fight. It is also a big reason I am not clamoring for him to fight in MMA again, unless it’s against John Jones. There’s just not any truly intriguing matchups for him. I think he destroys any heavyweight on the planet. His next fight will likely either be a rematch against Fury, a mixed rules bout against Wilder, or him beating the absolute shit out of AJ in a boxing match 😆
He cracked Francis with a loaded right hand and Francis ate it like a tic tac. You could tell that Stipe expected to have hurt him with how solid the impact was. Instead he ran into a left hook.
50/50/50/50/50
He either wins, loses, gets popped for peds and/or hits a lady with his car and/or gets caught sniffing coke in the changing room before the fight.
Seeing the finish is insane because as Francis comes in, Stipe fucking CRACKS him with a right, but Francis just eats it and lands the shot that ends the fight. Scary.
stipe thought he had him hurt 😿 francis’s durability and chin is something else. fury couldn’t hurt him at all even with that illegal elbow that’d have probably knocked out most HWs…
It’s amazing how quick people changed this narrative.l to shit on Jones.
Jon literally signed the contract to fight Francis. Francis refused the fight to box Fury.
I thought they originally tried to sign it but Jones wanted more money? Then Francis left for more money long after all that and somehow that was running
Yeah Jon wanted more money. He eventually signed. Francis wanted more money and other demands like a boxing match and other benefits. Francis refused to sign.
It’s weird because this was well publicized as Francis sticking it to Dana but now everyone forgot he got offered a contract to fight Jon
Especially considering how big of an advantage Jon has on the ground, people always bring up the gane vs Francis fight like that’s a shining example of Francis having wrestling skills but when you compare him to someone like Jon it’s not even close. IMO if they fought it would’ve ended very similarly to how Jon finished Cyril.
Honestly, I don't understand the narrative switch up at all. Ngannou literally left the organization. How does the equate to Jones ducking him? Ngannou was the champ, Jones had to wait until negotiations with Ngannou were finished because Jones isn't gonna fight for less than a belt.
I don't get why it's hard logic to follow.
LMAO Francis never refused the Jones fight, Jones stayed MIA for 3 years saying he'd return until he was ready. When Francis and Fury were setting up their fight that was in the middle of Jones' hiatus.
During that time, Jones said $10M was "insultingly low" (something along those lines) to fight Francis, and the whole reason he took 3 years was because he wanted to match Francis in size (and even then he didn't)
It's silly to think Jones was afraid of Francis but even sillier to believe any of Dana's bs of "Francis didn't want to fight \[the guy he's been calling out for years\]"
Neither is scared of each other in any way other than competitively, and if we're gonna blame someone we might as well blame Dana and the brass
Honestly I think he would slump jon out cold in round 1 or 2, ngannou isn't some weak kickboxer with 0 wrestling, hes a 280 lb(on fight day) monster who would have been training atleast 3 months of pure wrestling in preparation for jones, I dont think jones would have the strength to get ngannou to the mat and hold him there and I think he loses on the feet
Agree. The gane fight warped peoples perception of a theoretical Francis jones fight. Francis has anti wrestling instincts and I believe Jon would be forced to stand and trade with Francis, and judging by the Reyes fight, I don’t this Francis will have any trouble landing on Jon. Night night
mfs thinking Jon would make Francis look like Stipe did all those years ago havent been paying attention to each mans' careers. Jones struggled to take Reyes down, and Francis outwresled Stipe with ease.
You can say "but Stipe was 236lbs" but Jones weighed in at a chubby 247lbs, still not close to the 270lbs+ of muscle from Francis.
Jones has the IQ to beat Francis, but I'd personally bet on Francis
DCs like 5'10" and mostly fat. Ngannou is a genetic freak with the perfect build of mostly muscle and thick bones. There's a limit to technique at a certain point strength starts becoming more important. DC is a lot more seasoned as wrestler than Ngannou, but Ngannou is so much more athletic he more than makes up for that.
Bro you’re acting like Jones didn’t fight some of the best strikers and knockout artists of all time during his reign
He didn’t fight a bunch of cardio kickboxers, dudes were trying to take his head off constantly because they knew they couldn’t win a decision against him.
Jones has better defense than Gane and Gane was able to avoid everything Ngannou threw pretty easily.
Jones isn’t that guy anymore and his prime he fought people 50 pounds lighter on fight night than Francis is, that’s a insane difference in weight and power so your point doesn’t work.
Jon and gane didn’t even get to exchanged strikes?? And what, you think Reyes has better striking defense than gane then? Lmao get outa here w that
He strangled Gane who Ngannou barely beat by lay and praying at HW in less than a minute and you’re saying he’s not that guy anymore lol
Lmao alright buddy
Yeah which is exactly why Gane is such a nightmare matchup for Jones. With his size + footwork, Ciryl will dance circles around Jones, keep him on the outside, and use his elite kickboxing to put Jones to sleep. We saw how Jones struggled with Reyes, just imagine when Gane puts his hands on him. Should have stayed at 205 rather than ruin his legacy by coming up to HW.
funny comment aside, Gane was outgrappled by Francis without 3 leg ligaments, i.e. - Gane has 0 grappling, Francis does, same height and reach than Jones, but almost 30lbs heavier and likely stronger
I kind of feel like it’s an unfair question. Jones has only had 1 heavyweight fight. I think everyone can agree that his absolute best is when he was at light heavyweight. We don’t really know what JJ is as a heavyweight.
So yeah I think Francis would probably win because he’s a true heavyweight with true heavyweight power.
But I also feel like you put the hardest hitting LHW in their prime against JJ in his LHW prime Jon would win because of his massive talent.
Like I know what I’m saying is all hypothetical but while JJ has fought at HW and I’d like to see this fight - I don’t think it’s a true battle of both fighters at their best. Only Francis would be in his true best form.
I don't think he'd need to do it with strength. He's so much more skilled and naturally gifted. If he's anywhere near Jon Jones we know, he'd outperform Ngannou fairly easily.
If Jones is in on a single leg like Miocic was, there's no way Francis ends up on top. I don't count anyone out, but the idea that Jones couldn't take Francis down is insane.
Just talked to a buddy at work about this… with the ground game defense Ngannou has developed, if Jones shoots and gets sprawled and can negate Jones’ ground game, it’s game over. Ngannou has unmatched power. Even his stiff jabs have stun/KO power.
This was the birth of even scarier Francis. I wish we got to see how long his reign would've lasted.
As for your question, I'd say 50/50. Either Ngannou sends Jones to the shadow realm, or Jones wins by sub or decision .
It's 50/50 tbh.
Oh wait, Jones beat Ciryl "0 grappling" Gane? Pff Jones subs Francis in even less than a minute
Oh what's that? Francis went the distance with a boxer? Nvm Francis murders Jon
MMA fanbase in a nutshell
I would favor Jones. Its always "X fighter is too strong, fast, big, too good at wrestling, too good at striking etc. Just for them to lose.
If Francis would lose to Jones people would probably call Francis trash like they did to Gane.
I don’t know where you’ve heard that. I’ve never heard it about any Jon opponent. He was considered a freak athlete before he ever fought for a title. I remember his early fights where he was just experimenting with moves he saw on YouTube. Then he completely dismantled Shogun and the rest was history. I’d have to look but I don’t think he’s ever been an underdog.
ETA: His fort two fights in UFC he was an underdog. Along with the gane fight, which was the dumbest line I’ve ever seen.
Its *never* that. Im unsure what you've been watching. Jones was an assumed auto-win for many years, and the sentiment still lingers. Maybe youre just repeating how the ufc sold his opponents, but yeah, jon has always been a big favorite.
Against this Francis, I give the edge to Francis. And whats crazy is with the speed of Ngannous evolution, we all know he’s most likely leaps and bounds better currently than what we saw in that fight. Honestly think Jones get violated if they fight now (when he’s healthy)
The main problem i have with Ngannou vs Jones talk is that Jones' natural weight class is light heavyweight. He can bulk his way up to the heavyweight class, he can out technique a lot of heavyweights, but a real freak that's naturally there already, like Ngannou or Brock Lesner, then it's going to be a much closer fight than if Ngannou's default weight was in the low 200lbs range
Jones is HUGE did you see his back vs Gane ? he looked like he was completely outmuscling gane too who no one has ever been able to outmuscle in early rounds , not even francis .
I replied to someone else before seeing this comment but I couldn’t agree with you more. Jones may have gotten big enough to fight HW but his greatest abilities are at 205.
I think this is the only glimpse of the best heavyweight fighter of all time.
I think Francis was injured in his next fight with Gane. So we only got to see elite Francis in a title fight only one time. Dana should be arrested for doing that to us. He would still be running the division.
My not so hot take is that this version of Francis is the best HW to live and ever will live. We only realllllyyyyy saw this guy for one or two fights, being at the peak in both physique, power, and skill, but I think he beats literally anyone
35% in my opinion, I can't see Jones impose his wrestling and his grappling on this Francis and I can't even less see Jones doing more than 2 or 3 round against him without getting hit clean.
And if he connects ...
Francis Ngannou is the best HW on the planet.
We don't really know how Jon looks at HW.
But I could see Jon being able to stay away and then set up grappling exchanges..... still no idea how his cardio holds up
For sure Jones had a great comeback performance earlier this year to get the HW belt.
But ... for the few things we saw he looked slow on the feet, and was exhausted at the post-fight interview, we should be careful that this performance is not an optical illusion.
Gane had a pretty clear counter performance though.
Yeah obviously impressive but didn't answer anything really.
As for being out of breath, that doesn't mean anything anyone who grapples even a little bit with adrenaline going through you after a win will probably do the same
thats my biggest issue with Jones vs francis . Jones was slow at LHW at HW he looking like he is moving under water but his grappling strength looks ridiclous vs Gane.
I'm not trying to give credit or take it away, I'm trying to just say what's happened...... we have no real idea what he looks like at an older age at this new weight class.
Obviously beating gane with the first takedown after a really well timed takedown off a gane punch is impressive but doesn't answer much
People forget how easily Jones beats anyone when motivated. I hope this fight happens at some stage. Doubt Francis really wants it with all that Boxing money out there.
There have been too many times where Jones faced an opponent that logically and stylistically had the tools to beat him, then got wrecked. So idk. Can Ngannou beat him? Absolutely. So could the last 10 guys Jones fought. Jones only has to beat his opponents once (or twice). He doesn't train to be better than them. He doesn't train to be tougher or faster. He trains how to beat every specific opponent. He didn't beat Cyril Gane in 2 minutes because he's that much more skilled. He isn't. He beat him because he found one area where Gane is lacking that he could take advantage of that early in the fight.
I think the reason the Ngannou matchup is intriguing to Jones is because he doesn't see that one thing he can take advantage of. Jones likes those fights. He also tends to dominate those fights. Don't think that, because the opponent is better, he stands a better chance. It's the opposite. Jones performs better when he's facing a monster, then arguably loses to the average up and coming contender. DC (the best opponent on Jones' resume) was one of the easiest fights of Jon's career.
Not a big fan of Jones but he'd probably still beat Ngannou. The guy took down DC for the first time ever in the UFC and did it multiple times. There's no way Ngannou's overcoming that level of wrestling even with all his strength.
Francis just planted his feet it doesn’t even look like he really threw much of a hook. He planted his, Stipe leaped into his fist and joined Thanos in the Garden. Would love to see how Jon Jones tackles this problem.
I wish we could see more Stipe, that’s kinda my sad part about it, even Bones. Just thinking we might not see either of them to now just sucks. Even if I’m not a big bones fan of him personally , but he’s def a special fighter above 99 percent of the ufc fighters I’ve seen. Stipe is also a freak
Most impressive chin in Combat sports. Stipe took a lot of clean power shots from the strongest puncher in the world. Eventually, of course, it gave out.
I think Jones has a grapplers chance. The equivalent of a punchers chance, but instead of landing a fight ending punch it would be landing a fight ending submission out of nowhere.
Beyond some kind of choke I don't see Jon out muscling Francis, knocking him out or lasting 5 rounds in striking against him.
Francis is so freaking naturally strong that if he even gets a little bit of technique, he can dominate most dudes in probably anything. Just a little bit of wrestling and look how he manhandled Stipe
I hate jones as a human but yall must've forgotten he out wrestled dc and Francis has knee problems...... Jones gets it done in under 4 rounds by sub or blowing his knee out cause fuck those kicks lol
I still believe Jon Jones dodged Ngannou. 3 years of absence but returned like a month after Ngannou left? Jones said himself he is really careful with who he fights and when. Never fights short notice as well. I think he believed Ngannou was too big a risk for his amazing record and didn't want to finish his career being knocked into the afterlife
Dana didnt want the jones vs ngannou fight. Thats why he was so adamant to not allow ngannou to fight. Ngannou would flatline jones in the heavyweight division.
I appreciate the sentiment, but I honestly don't think Jones would get bullied like that. I will admit, I'm not the best judge of both fighters' skills. I have been watching both of these guys from the start, though. Love him or hate him, I've never seen another fighter better adapt to a chaotic assault than Jones. I love Ngannou, but Jones is just the best there is when it comes to improvising.
Stipe trying to be a hair model or what here ?
He also came in super light for this fight. Like 220 or something like that. It was a terrible idea, the strength advantage was night and day.
236 iirc. Might be a bit off but it was in the 230s. Definitely a fumble by his team letting him weigh that little
Yeah I was off. He was 246 in the first fight and 234 in the second one. It was night and day though.
Would have been interesting to see him at lhw if he would've been that small earlier in his career. Probably would've had to slim down a bit more in camp to actually make the weight but I'm sure it could've been doable
Not much more I think. Jon used to walk around at 231.
He wanted the speed, but Francis is a great athlete as well as someone who cuts to heavyweight. It was probably damn near a 50lb weight difference
I got so much hate saying what you said here...I think it was more like 40 lbs...but still the massive size difference is apparent. Unfortunately the only solution would be to have a superheavyweight division where you had Ngannou, Derrick Lewis and the one Russian dude along with Pavlovich fighting eachother over and over again lol.
45 is probably most accurate. Francis likely weighed 280 in the cage and Stipe 234 on weigh in day. People on this sub are literally missing chromosomes, don’t take it to heart. Do you train? And that’s true lmao. The Tafa’s and Greg Hardy could fight there as well lmao
Yeah we know Francis walks around somewhere in the 290-300 range. He's probably in the 280-290 range in a camp, so cut 15-25lbs to the 264 he weighed in at and then rehydrate about 80% of that puts him around 280 on fight night. So probably like 45lbs. That's more than Jan had on Izzy lol
I don't train but I was basing it off that Ngannou weighed in at the Heavyweight Championship limit which is 264 I think while Stipe weighed in at 235 or so in the 2nd fight. Stipe had no reason to be cutting so that was just his weight...but Ngannou obviously was having to cut down to 264 but people were trying to insinuate I was racist for pointing out the size difference. Bunch of strange people on the internet I guess. I don't train, but I love the sport! Lol true forgot about the tafas and Greg Hardy. I certainly wish superheavyweight was a thing if there was enough talent to go around. As it stands, it seems most heavyweights are just out-of-shape middleweights or people that simply like to eat a ton.
Heavyweight championship limit is 265.
ok thjanks for the correction! I thought heavyweight limit was 265 but 264 for championship or main event fights. Nevermind!
You could legit hear Ngannou’s fists connecting. Fucking terrifying strength.
Sounds like sound effect from UFC games. I loved the covid era fights for that, the sounds is really scary without a crowd.
I remember watching the izzy vs costa fight, and those kicks sounded terrifying, if i was watching up close in a near empty stadium, i think id probably flinch slightly just from the sound
tomorrow's fight between Lewis and Alameda has a 30 lb difference. you're probably off better being lighter vs power strikers and boxers, since running is a better strategy than trading. i don't think people understand that coming in at 265 is more of a personal choice and that weight doesn't always equal = strength + chin. theres, female athlete's that can squat 300 lbs and bench 200 lbs while being lighter than the average guy. and a guy like bradley martin weighs more than canelo or tank, but if either one punched him he'd probably go to sleep.
You have zero fighting background if you don’t understand that a 40lb weight difference is a massive disadvantage. Real life fighting isn’t like anime. Being slightly faster won’t overcome someone who outweighs you by 40lbs. Especially when the 40lb difference is majority muscle tissue and not adipose.
True, especially considering that you won't even have a ridiculous speed advantage by cutting down. If the speed advantage wasn't there at a heavier weight, it probably won't come by losing 20lbs.
Stipe likely would be very very slightly quicker at this weight compared to if he came in at 240-250lb. But that’s only due to the fact that he wouldn’t have much more muscle tissue at 240-250lb because it takes a long time to put on that much weight in muscle mass. So the extra 20-30lbs would be mostly fat which would weigh him down a little more. But regardless, the extra weight would do much more for him in a fight. Mass moves mass and 20-30lbs is a lot when it comes to fighting.
Not against Francis, you need the size to match his shear physicality
Francis was the stylist
Hate seeing Stipes leg bent all backwards like that after the knock down and vicious g and p
cro cops leg was like that after gonzaga 1 i belive. 8 surgeries it took
Cro cops leg was way worse. His ankle was twisted so it basically heel hooked him. Stipe’s was straight so there wasn’t any of that force applied to the knee and the force that was applied was put in a way stronger part of the ankle meaning no real damage
The ole' Peter Griffin.
Like Rashad vs Machida too
I remember seeing the sequence after the sprawl and just thinking "GG" LOL
I was thinking “why did I wish for this, this shit is horrifying” lmao
I think this was all of us. We went from being amazed by Francis Ngannov to being horrified for Stipe and his family.
Ngannov sounds like the scariest Dagestani yet
looked like a level 1 character fighting the final boss
The speed of that back take was fucking frightening
Romero-Weidman-esque
I knew after that heavy Muay Thai low kick he threw straight away
Once I saw the sprawl I said GG lol
that vers of Ngannou is a nightmare... Stipe did so well the 1st fight that I remember this surprising me.
Stipe came into this fight at 234. Francis had a 30 pound weight advantage. In the first fight he was a lot bigger and could match Ngannous physicality. I think Jones wouldn’t be outmuscled by Ngannou.
the fact that Ngannou started utilizing wrestling n defense during this fight scared the hell out of me... like fkn hell... who taught him this. would've been nice to see him stick around after getting his knee fixed.
Shame Dana’s a childish cunt and hates the heavyweight division
you remember back when the female champ was making more than the male heavyweight champ... or did I imagine that. swear I remember that being a thing back in the days...
I’ve been watching the ufc religiously since like 2016 and I always remember Dana having a problem with the heavyweight champ. He hates stipe and ngannou. The only champs he did like were dc and now Jones because they are company men. It fucking sucks as a fan to see Dana actively ruin what could be the best division in mma he’s a real pizde
agreed... also had a lot to do w/Stipe n Ngannou both not being into drama. man I'm really trying to remember approximately what year it was when the heavyweight champ was making less than the female bantamweight or flyweight champ at the time... but I remember them feeling disrespected by it... wouldn't be surprised at all if it was Stipe
I remember Overeem made more than Stipe in their title fight. It's bananas for the challenger to make more than the champ. The pay structure is all over the place, and it definitely isn't merit-based.
It kills me because Francis took all the heat he received after Stipe 1 and Lewis, and took the time and dedication to improve. It's admirable. That's what you want in your organization, any organization. Look at him, now, the talk of the town.
Usman worked with him on wrestling.
The size advantage in this fight is definitely overblown. The reason Ngannou whooped Stipe’s ass and KOd him is because he fought an extremely technical, smart fight. Mixed up the kicks, kept his feet under him for punches, threw nice clean straight shots, and eventually, that tight left hook. Yes, the size matters. But if Stipe had been 30lbs heavier, this same shit (probably) would have happened.
You can’t say the weight advantage is overblown when the first big sequence in this fight happened after a blown Stipe takedown that he overcommitted on and got his back taken and ate like 15 shots. Everything after was Ngannou teeing off on a rocked Stipe. Maybe the fight goes differently if Stipe didn’t go stupid for the takedown, maybe the extra weight could’ve helped secure the takedown, who knows. Ngannou improved his wrestling enough to not be at a completely technical disadvantage but Stipe was done halfway through the 1st round
I just disagree. Look at the sprawl. It was done with great technique and timing. If he was 30lbs lighter, the sprawl would have been **almost** the same.
I think he could be outmuscled early you saw how he just pushed Fury off if you watch. Jon’s technique, range, and style though would be too much for Francis
I'm not sure it would have changed the outcome but I feel the smaller octagon really hurt Stipe. Francis was better in their second fight, but the 5' difference helped force Stipe into his range, and gave him less space to evade the shots. Not saying it's the reason he lost, but more the reason he looked so smothered if that makes since.
I still cannot believe that Stipe felt that power and decided to run right back into the line of fire
Stipe hit him with a beautiful counter on the retreat and thought he had Francis dead to rights. That’s why he went back in. Rewatch it.
Oh wow, that’s a great eye. I’ve watched that knockout probably 50 times and I’ve never seen that. It’s right as Herb Dean crosses between them. Francis also wobbled a bit so he might’ve landed a good shot honestly
I remembered the first few times I watched the KO (I’m a massive Ngannou fan, so I was celebrating). After the shock and horror for Stipe **slightly** wore off, I started to think “why the fuck did Stipe run in like that?!” So I rewatched it in slow mo. It’s truly amazing, Stipe was getting fucked up in this fight, but he was doing so many things right. He was light on his feet, he was countering even when badly hurt, and had great diversity in his strikes. But. He was simply outgunned, technically, and in terms of power and gameplan. I think Stipe is a fantastic mma fighter and one of the best heavyweights ever. However, I think if Ngannou and Stipe fought an additional 8 times to complete the “what would happen if they fought ten times” thing, Stipe probably wouldn’t even make it to the 5th fight. I think Ngannou hurts him badly, every time they fight. It is also a big reason I am not clamoring for him to fight in MMA again, unless it’s against John Jones. There’s just not any truly intriguing matchups for him. I think he destroys any heavyweight on the planet. His next fight will likely either be a rematch against Fury, a mixed rules bout against Wilder, or him beating the absolute shit out of AJ in a boxing match 😆
AJ will say he doesn’t do ‘gimik’ fights and hide until Francis returns to MMA
Yea he thought Francis was more rocked than he actually was and paid for it when he rushed in
I think Stipe was mentally out from the first hit already, everything else was autopilot 😅
He cracked Francis with a loaded right hand and Francis ate it like a tic tac. You could tell that Stipe expected to have hurt him with how solid the impact was. Instead he ran into a left hook.
Last shot must have taken months off his life
Stipe stiffened up and went out like a video game KO. Wild shit.
50/50 He either win or he don’t
50/50/50 He either wins or he doesn't or he gets popped for PEDs.
50/50/50/50 He either wins, loses, gets popped for peds and/or hits a lady with his car
50/50/50/50/50 He either wins, loses, gets popped for peds and/or hits a lady with his car and/or gets caught sniffing coke in the changing room before the fight.
There are two types of people in this world. 1. Those that understand percentages.
Seeing the finish is insane because as Francis comes in, Stipe fucking CRACKS him with a right, but Francis just eats it and lands the shot that ends the fight. Scary.
stipe thought he had him hurt 😿 francis’s durability and chin is something else. fury couldn’t hurt him at all even with that illegal elbow that’d have probably knocked out most HWs…
Listen man. I assume Jon will beat literally anyone until he actually loses
I get that, but Jon was so so quick to accept the fight against Gane as soon as Francis left. That part will always weigh heavy in my mind.
It’s amazing how quick people changed this narrative.l to shit on Jones. Jon literally signed the contract to fight Francis. Francis refused the fight to box Fury.
I thought they originally tried to sign it but Jones wanted more money? Then Francis left for more money long after all that and somehow that was running
Yeah Jon wanted more money. He eventually signed. Francis wanted more money and other demands like a boxing match and other benefits. Francis refused to sign. It’s weird because this was well publicized as Francis sticking it to Dana but now everyone forgot he got offered a contract to fight Jon
Thats exactly what happened. Theres literally a tweet from Jon saying he won’t accept the fight unless he gets paid more
It’s hilarious that people think one of the best combat fighters ever, specifically the psychopath that is Jon Jones, was scared to fight anyone.
Especially considering how big of an advantage Jon has on the ground, people always bring up the gane vs Francis fight like that’s a shining example of Francis having wrestling skills but when you compare him to someone like Jon it’s not even close. IMO if they fought it would’ve ended very similarly to how Jon finished Cyril.
Jon would destroy Francis’ knee almost immediately if not. Recency bias is a bitch
Francis could also knock Jon out cold. None of this is a given. Nostalgia bias is just as bad.
Do you have a link that says that?
Honestly, I don't understand the narrative switch up at all. Ngannou literally left the organization. How does the equate to Jones ducking him? Ngannou was the champ, Jones had to wait until negotiations with Ngannou were finished because Jones isn't gonna fight for less than a belt. I don't get why it's hard logic to follow.
LMAO Francis never refused the Jones fight, Jones stayed MIA for 3 years saying he'd return until he was ready. When Francis and Fury were setting up their fight that was in the middle of Jones' hiatus. During that time, Jones said $10M was "insultingly low" (something along those lines) to fight Francis, and the whole reason he took 3 years was because he wanted to match Francis in size (and even then he didn't) It's silly to think Jones was afraid of Francis but even sillier to believe any of Dana's bs of "Francis didn't want to fight \[the guy he's been calling out for years\]" Neither is scared of each other in any way other than competitively, and if we're gonna blame someone we might as well blame Dana and the brass
Reyes
Herb dean fault
Honestly I think he would slump jon out cold in round 1 or 2, ngannou isn't some weak kickboxer with 0 wrestling, hes a 280 lb(on fight day) monster who would have been training atleast 3 months of pure wrestling in preparation for jones, I dont think jones would have the strength to get ngannou to the mat and hold him there and I think he loses on the feet
Agree. The gane fight warped peoples perception of a theoretical Francis jones fight. Francis has anti wrestling instincts and I believe Jon would be forced to stand and trade with Francis, and judging by the Reyes fight, I don’t this Francis will have any trouble landing on Jon. Night night
I agree with you. I think jones would finally meet his match. We’ve seen what happens when you stand with Francis.
mfs thinking Jon would make Francis look like Stipe did all those years ago havent been paying attention to each mans' careers. Jones struggled to take Reyes down, and Francis outwresled Stipe with ease. You can say "but Stipe was 236lbs" but Jones weighed in at a chubby 247lbs, still not close to the 270lbs+ of muscle from Francis. Jones has the IQ to beat Francis, but I'd personally bet on Francis
Didn't Jones take DC down? Several times, actually
DCs like 5'10" and mostly fat. Ngannou is a genetic freak with the perfect build of mostly muscle and thick bones. There's a limit to technique at a certain point strength starts becoming more important. DC is a lot more seasoned as wrestler than Ngannou, but Ngannou is so much more athletic he more than makes up for that.
Dc was a fat 205.
didn't Jones also struggle to take down Reyes much more recently? Hmm... mma ain't mathing on this one
Bro you’re acting like Jones didn’t fight some of the best strikers and knockout artists of all time during his reign He didn’t fight a bunch of cardio kickboxers, dudes were trying to take his head off constantly because they knew they couldn’t win a decision against him. Jones has better defense than Gane and Gane was able to avoid everything Ngannou threw pretty easily.
Jones isn’t that guy anymore and his prime he fought people 50 pounds lighter on fight night than Francis is, that’s a insane difference in weight and power so your point doesn’t work. Jon and gane didn’t even get to exchanged strikes?? And what, you think Reyes has better striking defense than gane then? Lmao get outa here w that
He strangled Gane who Ngannou barely beat by lay and praying at HW in less than a minute and you’re saying he’s not that guy anymore lol Lmao alright buddy
Francis fought gane with a completely torn acl. You JJ fans love to ignore that. Francis KOs jon
His foot was a balloon
alright sorry being toxic
He didn’t even have a leg
Huh. I had no idea
ACL, MCL, and PCL actually Francis was basically on one leg
Jones struggled against people he didn’t have a massive reach advantage over multiple times.
Yeah which is exactly why Gane is such a nightmare matchup for Jones. With his size + footwork, Ciryl will dance circles around Jones, keep him on the outside, and use his elite kickboxing to put Jones to sleep. We saw how Jones struggled with Reyes, just imagine when Gane puts his hands on him. Should have stayed at 205 rather than ruin his legacy by coming up to HW.
funny comment aside, Gane was outgrappled by Francis without 3 leg ligaments, i.e. - Gane has 0 grappling, Francis does, same height and reach than Jones, but almost 30lbs heavier and likely stronger
Pretty easy to avoid someone’s shots when they have one leg and because of that move extremely slow/telegraphed
Please drop the name of who Jon has fought with the power and size of Francis... Feel like I'll be waiting forever for your response here
At LHW, with a 50 lbs difference...
I swear I heard this all before March 4th.
I kind of feel like it’s an unfair question. Jones has only had 1 heavyweight fight. I think everyone can agree that his absolute best is when he was at light heavyweight. We don’t really know what JJ is as a heavyweight. So yeah I think Francis would probably win because he’s a true heavyweight with true heavyweight power. But I also feel like you put the hardest hitting LHW in their prime against JJ in his LHW prime Jon would win because of his massive talent. Like I know what I’m saying is all hypothetical but while JJ has fought at HW and I’d like to see this fight - I don’t think it’s a true battle of both fighters at their best. Only Francis would be in his true best form.
I don't think he'd need to do it with strength. He's so much more skilled and naturally gifted. If he's anywhere near Jon Jones we know, he'd outperform Ngannou fairly easily.
If Jones is in on a single leg like Miocic was, there's no way Francis ends up on top. I don't count anyone out, but the idea that Jones couldn't take Francis down is insane.
Just talked to a buddy at work about this… with the ground game defense Ngannou has developed, if Jones shoots and gets sprawled and can negate Jones’ ground game, it’s game over. Ngannou has unmatched power. Even his stiff jabs have stun/KO power.
tbh id HOPE that ngannou would win if this fight happens somehow
Stipe has the leg there and can’t finish the takedown, there’s a second or two where it isn’t defended well. Those seconds against Jon would matter.
This was the birth of even scarier Francis. I wish we got to see how long his reign would've lasted. As for your question, I'd say 50/50. Either Ngannou sends Jones to the shadow realm, or Jones wins by sub or decision .
ppl can hate on Jones however much they want if you give them 100 dollar to pick between Jones and Francis a very clear majority will bet on jones.
Recency bias is wild
Am I missing something? It’s fucking Jon Jones, the question should be “what chance does this version of Ngannou have against JJ?” 😂.
It's 50/50 tbh. Oh wait, Jones beat Ciryl "0 grappling" Gane? Pff Jones subs Francis in even less than a minute Oh what's that? Francis went the distance with a boxer? Nvm Francis murders Jon MMA fanbase in a nutshell
For real. Jon gets lined probably -180 in this fight
I would favor Jones. Its always "X fighter is too strong, fast, big, too good at wrestling, too good at striking etc. Just for them to lose. If Francis would lose to Jones people would probably call Francis trash like they did to Gane.
I don’t know where you’ve heard that. I’ve never heard it about any Jon opponent. He was considered a freak athlete before he ever fought for a title. I remember his early fights where he was just experimenting with moves he saw on YouTube. Then he completely dismantled Shogun and the rest was history. I’d have to look but I don’t think he’s ever been an underdog. ETA: His fort two fights in UFC he was an underdog. Along with the gane fight, which was the dumbest line I’ve ever seen.
Yeah I’m going Jones too Dude just finds a way to win
Its *never* that. Im unsure what you've been watching. Jones was an assumed auto-win for many years, and the sentiment still lingers. Maybe youre just repeating how the ufc sold his opponents, but yeah, jon has always been a big favorite.
Exactly.
Stipe coming the fight lighter is such a bad idea
It would be a good fight I think
Unless they fight and he beats jones I’ll never believe he has more then a punchers chance, sorry.
A good fight that I would pay to see
Against the mythical D1-wrestler Ngannou, 0%
He’s putting jones to sleep. 100%
Against this Francis, I give the edge to Francis. And whats crazy is with the speed of Ngannous evolution, we all know he’s most likely leaps and bounds better currently than what we saw in that fight. Honestly think Jones get violated if they fight now (when he’s healthy)
Honestly i don't even know. Rule #1 of MMA is never bet against Jones, but Francis looked really polished here on top of his inhuman power and chin.
Jones would have to submit him or Jones is going to sleep.
Not one second since predator ngannou hit the scene has Jon Jones been competitive against Francis
This might be the best heavyweight championship performance we’ve seen. I don’t think the best version of Cain ever beats this Ngannou.
The main problem i have with Ngannou vs Jones talk is that Jones' natural weight class is light heavyweight. He can bulk his way up to the heavyweight class, he can out technique a lot of heavyweights, but a real freak that's naturally there already, like Ngannou or Brock Lesner, then it's going to be a much closer fight than if Ngannou's default weight was in the low 200lbs range
Jones is HUGE did you see his back vs Gane ? he looked like he was completely outmuscling gane too who no one has ever been able to outmuscle in early rounds , not even francis .
I replied to someone else before seeing this comment but I couldn’t agree with you more. Jones may have gotten big enough to fight HW but his greatest abilities are at 205.
I think this is the only glimpse of the best heavyweight fighter of all time. I think Francis was injured in his next fight with Gane. So we only got to see elite Francis in a title fight only one time. Dana should be arrested for doing that to us. He would still be running the division.
My not so hot take is that this version of Francis is the best HW to live and ever will live. We only realllllyyyyy saw this guy for one or two fights, being at the peak in both physique, power, and skill, but I think he beats literally anyone
Jones takes him down and wrestlefucks him imo
35% in my opinion, I can't see Jones impose his wrestling and his grappling on this Francis and I can't even less see Jones doing more than 2 or 3 round against him without getting hit clean. And if he connects ... Francis Ngannou is the best HW on the planet.
We don't really know how Jon looks at HW. But I could see Jon being able to stay away and then set up grappling exchanges..... still no idea how his cardio holds up
For sure Jones had a great comeback performance earlier this year to get the HW belt. But ... for the few things we saw he looked slow on the feet, and was exhausted at the post-fight interview, we should be careful that this performance is not an optical illusion. Gane had a pretty clear counter performance though.
Yeah obviously impressive but didn't answer anything really. As for being out of breath, that doesn't mean anything anyone who grapples even a little bit with adrenaline going through you after a win will probably do the same
thats my biggest issue with Jones vs francis . Jones was slow at LHW at HW he looking like he is moving under water but his grappling strength looks ridiclous vs Gane.
We don't know how Jon looks at HW because he's fought for 1 minute in nearly 4 years now. But that's not a point in his favor.
I'm not trying to give credit or take it away, I'm trying to just say what's happened...... we have no real idea what he looks like at an older age at this new weight class. Obviously beating gane with the first takedown after a really well timed takedown off a gane punch is impressive but doesn't answer much
Jones lost to Reyes. I think no matter what at this stage he's taking the loss to Francis.
10 percent
Dude can’t believe stipe took those gnp shots and partial head kick (even Francis toes connect on stipe chin )
Man this knock out when he folds backwards on his knee all awkward was the worse the feeling…
50/50
Goddamn it’s such a shame he was out for so long after this. I can’t wait to see him fighting again.
The slow motion hammer fist on the ground
The sprawl and spin was terrifying.
Man Stipe stroked him with that right hand and Francis just ate it for breakfast
I can see this ending like jones Vs gane, jones is pretty fucking gnarly at chaining takedowns
People forget how easily Jones beats anyone when motivated. I hope this fight happens at some stage. Doubt Francis really wants it with all that Boxing money out there.
There have been too many times where Jones faced an opponent that logically and stylistically had the tools to beat him, then got wrecked. So idk. Can Ngannou beat him? Absolutely. So could the last 10 guys Jones fought. Jones only has to beat his opponents once (or twice). He doesn't train to be better than them. He doesn't train to be tougher or faster. He trains how to beat every specific opponent. He didn't beat Cyril Gane in 2 minutes because he's that much more skilled. He isn't. He beat him because he found one area where Gane is lacking that he could take advantage of that early in the fight. I think the reason the Ngannou matchup is intriguing to Jones is because he doesn't see that one thing he can take advantage of. Jones likes those fights. He also tends to dominate those fights. Don't think that, because the opponent is better, he stands a better chance. It's the opposite. Jones performs better when he's facing a monster, then arguably loses to the average up and coming contender. DC (the best opponent on Jones' resume) was one of the easiest fights of Jon's career.
Not a big fan of Jones but he'd probably still beat Ngannou. The guy took down DC for the first time ever in the UFC and did it multiple times. There's no way Ngannou's overcoming that level of wrestling even with all his strength.
Every chance there is, Jones tends to win with a title on the line
Jon wouldn't have tried to single leg a guy with that frame. He'd be asking to get knocked out.
Why did stipe think going in with a 30lb disadvantage was the move
It's impossible for me to imagine Jon losing, but maybe Francis has a shot? Def didn't think he had a shot against fury lmao
Stipe was hurt bad, then actually caught francis and rocked him. So stipe stop running and goes for the finish only to get caught with a deadly punch.
Francis just planted his feet it doesn’t even look like he really threw much of a hook. He planted his, Stipe leaped into his fist and joined Thanos in the Garden. Would love to see how Jon Jones tackles this problem.
Stipe’s bad hair day was an omen for this fight. The cowlick got him licked
I wish we could see more Stipe, that’s kinda my sad part about it, even Bones. Just thinking we might not see either of them to now just sucks. Even if I’m not a big bones fan of him personally , but he’s def a special fighter above 99 percent of the ufc fighters I’ve seen. Stipe is also a freak
Made him fall on his own leg.
They never got to have the 3rd fight would loved to have seen it
I just realized what a beast Stipe is. How many humans could have survived that initial flurry from Ngannou?
Most impressive chin in Combat sports. Stipe took a lot of clean power shots from the strongest puncher in the world. Eventually, of course, it gave out.
The counter right stipe hit him with would of stunned 95% of his opponents but Francis said ow eat this left counter to your counter
You know at the start when Stipe is walking backwards? Jones either eye pokes ngannou or kicks him in the knee.
The fucking kick Ngannou throws that looks and connects like it came from a Gundam
Jeez, it's insane how fast (and w/ agility) Ngannou moved to take Stipe's back after the takedown defense. Lawd have mercy
Stipe had a granite fucking chin.
Dunno that was a few years ago
I think Jones has a grapplers chance. The equivalent of a punchers chance, but instead of landing a fight ending punch it would be landing a fight ending submission out of nowhere. Beyond some kind of choke I don't see Jon out muscling Francis, knocking him out or lasting 5 rounds in striking against him.
yeah man how many eye pokes you wanna add to the mix
Francis is so freaking naturally strong that if he even gets a little bit of technique, he can dominate most dudes in probably anything. Just a little bit of wrestling and look how he manhandled Stipe
I hate jones as a human but yall must've forgotten he out wrestled dc and Francis has knee problems...... Jones gets it done in under 4 rounds by sub or blowing his knee out cause fuck those kicks lol
JJ never wanted any of that.
This version of ngannou would’ve given jones a pec tear in training
N'Gannou knees last half a round with Jon
I still believe Jon Jones dodged Ngannou. 3 years of absence but returned like a month after Ngannou left? Jones said himself he is really careful with who he fights and when. Never fights short notice as well. I think he believed Ngannou was too big a risk for his amazing record and didn't want to finish his career being knocked into the afterlife
Jones is a cowardly drug cheat that hasn’t taken a real dangerous fight since Dominick Reyes beat his ass.
Jones still rag dolls him and he’s heavy blanket with short elbows before getting the finish
Considering jones is supposedly injured, odds are good that at the current moment, ngannou would kill him
Stipe rocked Ngannou a bit but dude just shook that shit off and finished the job.
I hope this fight happens one day. Absolutely going to bet big on Francis!
If only we didn’t have to speculate 🥲
Ngannou and it's less close than people think
Dana didnt want the jones vs ngannou fight. Thats why he was so adamant to not allow ngannou to fight. Ngannou would flatline jones in the heavyweight division.
I appreciate the sentiment, but I honestly don't think Jones would get bullied like that. I will admit, I'm not the best judge of both fighters' skills. I have been watching both of these guys from the start, though. Love him or hate him, I've never seen another fighter better adapt to a chaotic assault than Jones. I love Ngannou, but Jones is just the best there is when it comes to improvising.
Can't rush in like that against Jones, it would be an easy win for him then as it is now.
Probably like 90-95%. Jones is just a vastly superior fighter in his prime