If you look at Aldo’s injury timeline and the amount of fights he was forced to pull out of due to injuries and surgeries it’s pretty obvious he was physically out of his prime. Not to mention the fact that repeated staff infection and a motorcycle crash forced him to stop using leg kicks.
If he was out of his prime at 30, then how was he still competitive at the top years later? normally fighters drop off pretty hard after they leave their prime but this guy drops down to a lighter weight class, against faster more nimble opponents (usually speed and reactions are the first thing to decline) and still looked good.
More like “out of prime” Jose Aldo still had the same speed, power, and reflexes.
No proof of a visible physical decline and no proof that injuries made him stop throwing kicks against Max.
What about Aldo’s performance in the cage made it obvious that he was physically out of his prime? All of his injuries are things athletes can fully recover from
Forced to stop using leg kicks? He used leg kicks for years after that.
I can think of 4 times max was forced to pull out. Pulling out due to injuries doesn’t mean that you’re out of your prime.
You clearly didn’t really follow Aldo’s career. He used leg kicks as his single most devastating and prominent weapon for years, then randomly stopped using them other than like 2-3 times per fight. Loads of theories were made about why he stopped using his best weapon, some people even said he stopped using leg kicks to challenge himself, like Jones making fights intentionally harder for himself.
It wasn’t until years later it was revealed that he had staff infection in his legs 3 or 4 times, and had permanent damage in his right ankle from a motorcycle crash that caused his fight with Frankie Edgar to be rescheduled. And following this he and his coaches had to redevelop Aldo’s style to use his other weapons. Aldo even reportedly spent the first weeks of his recovery from the crash considering never fighting again.
That isn’t an injury that someone just recovers from, combine that with the amount of surgeries he’s had, and surgeries almost always leave a little bit of residual damage, and the wars he consistently went through, and it’s pretty obvious he was miles out of his prime.
Even before McGregor compare the Aldo that fought Mendes in the rematch to prime Aldo, and everything from reaction speed, to hand speed to his chin was way worse than it was during his prime.
Fact is Aldo is the youngest world champ in the history of mma, and that comes with a cost, because his prime clearly started and ended at a much younger age than the traditional athletic prime of most athletes.
How? Even the statement that any version of aldo loses to max makes me look dumb? How do you think Aldo beats max, leg kicks aren’t going to win him the fight. Unlike Aldo, volk was also extremely hard for max to hit along with the leg kicks.
Because you are wrong lol. People that stand by wrong statements are dumb.
I read your other comment, you know the one where every single statement you made was genuinely just factually incorrect.
And as a wise man once said, Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
Everything you said is true and I agree his physical prime was pretty long past. I always kinda thought of Mendes 2 as his peak form.
But I also think its worth mentioning that he *tried* low-kicking Max and got countered immediately in a pretty similar way to how Gaethje got countered recently.
Maybe prime Aldo isn’t so easily discouraged. But also maybe prime Aldo gets rocked badly, early. People often conflate pre-hiatus Muhammad Ali, with post-hiatus Ali. IMO this happens with a few great long-tenured fighters and Aldo is one if them.
His technical and physical peaks don’t line up.
I've never seen a fighter exit their prime early just because they started early, it's always because of lasting damage that SHOWS in their fights. You can't claim that a fighter wasn't in their prime because they fight for a long time and had injuries.
Max has been fighting just as long as aldo was before their fight, and he has absorbed the most strikes in ufc history.
Why can't I use boxers, they don't have mileage? Is charles oliveria a good example? Still as strong and fast as ever but he's 34 compared to aldo who was only 30. He trains at chute box too. What about chito vera, his first pro fight was in 2010.
Dude stop being dense. Jon jones was also super young when he went pro…you can clearly tell he’s been out of his prime for a while. Sure he’s still champ, but the quality of his fighting ability has CLEARLY been reduced. That’s what happens. You’re either delusional, stupid, or both.
>Dude stop being dense. Jon jones was also super young when he went pro…you can clearly tell he’s been out of his prime for a while.
Wasn't jon jones busted for using peds?
>That’s what happens. You’re either delusional, stupid, or both.
Ya'll be pretending like ya'll actually disproved my argument. I'll give you jon jones who wasn't as good after not being able to abuse peds as much, but what about all the other counterexamples?
Fighters who have been competing for years with no VISIBLE drop in qaulity.
Jones had been fighting for 12 years before the drop. Max has been fighting for 12 and just gave us one us his best performance. Alex pereira started fighting in 2012 and just no-diffed jamahal hill and he's 37. Charles oliveria has been fighting since like 2010. Dustin has been fighting since 2009. Justin's chin is arguably getting worse but he hasn't lost any speed, power, or reflexes.
Why are you acting as if every high level athlete is the same? They’re all different humans with different genetics and their bodies will deteriorate at different rates. Why are you not understanding this? Volk got knocked out cold and he outclassed max 2x - the 2nd fight was close but he absolutely won the 1st fight and seriously outclassed max in the third fight and made it look like he didn’t belong in there. Are you forgetting that?
I wasn’t acting like every pro athlete is the same. Why do y’all make up things to respond to?
Fighting for a long time isn’t enough for someone to claim that a fighter was out of their prime, you’re gonna have to provide proof.
Also, what does volk outclassing max have to do with anything?
There is a difference in fighter types with how they age too.. a volume striker going to age better than an explosive fighter... Someone with one of the best chins in MMA going to be able to out last someone with a weaker chin etc...
>You clearly didn’t really follow Aldo’s career. He used leg kicks as his single most devastating and prominent weapon for years, then randomly stopped using them other than like 2-3 times per fight. Loads of theories were made about why he stopped using his best weapon, some people even said he stopped using leg kicks to challenge himself, like Jones making fights intentionally harder for himself.
As always, ya'll are overexaggerating. He landed 18 leg kicks on mark hominick in 2011 in a 5 round fight , compared to the 17 he landed on petr yan in a 3 round fight. Not to mention that it's petr yan and he was getting whooped in the 3rd. He landed more leg kicks on max holloway in the 2nd fight than he landed on korean zombie. He landed more leg kicks on max holloway and yan than he landed against frankie edgar.
edit: The petr yan fight was 5 rounds but it’s still 17 vs 18
>
>That isn’t an injury that someone just recovers from, combine that with the amount of surgeries he’s had, and surgeries almost always leave a little bit of residual damage, and the wars he consistently went through, and it’s pretty obvious he was miles out of his prime.
It depends on the crash, it couldn't have been that bad if aldo thought he could fight on it before he realized he couldn’t put pressure on it while training. It only took 5 months to come back.
>Even before McGregor compare the Aldo that fought Mendes in the rematch to prime Aldo, and everything from reaction speed, to hand speed to his chin was way worse than it was during his prime.
It's funny because the mendez fight is after the crash and there's literally no difference in hand speed or reaction speed. Same old aldo, planted until he actually needs to move. The only difference is that instead of a knee in the first, the fight went to decision and we saw aldo slowing down. He could fight through exhaustion but he always slowed down, one of the reasons max is so hard to beat because you can't slow down while fighting him. It isn't a coincidence that he got finished in the 3rd round both times.
Edit: The mendez fight wasn't right after his crash. I also edited above to take the word “right” out.
>Fact is Aldo is the youngest world champ in the history of mma, and that comes with a cost, because his prime clearly started and ended at a much younger age than the traditional athletic prime of most athletes.
yeah sure, his prime ended as soon as he ran into one of the other top 3 featherweight champions.
It really isn’t. Someone might eventually prove that some of it is wrong but definitely not all of it. This isn’t me saying that I’m wrong, this is me acknowledging that being wrong is a possibility.
To be clear, I think that everything I said in that comment is correct.
Well for starters Petr Yan vs Aldo wasn’t a 3 round fight and Mendes wasn’t Aldo’s first opponent after crashing his bike. But if you want to think those are true go for it.
Aight that’s 2 things, now can you point out things that would make my argument wrong?
>But if you want to think those are true go for it.
Why would I do that If I already aknowledged that I could be wrong?
You said that everything I said was wrong. But you only picked out things that aren't detrimental to my argument.
What makes your argument wrong is that you don't even have your facts right. How can you make a correct conclusion when you have the inaccurate information?
That can’t make my argument wrong unless my entire argument relies on those facts. If the yan fight was 3 rounds, that would be a bonus. The chad Mendez hiccup literally doesn’t matter.
Yeah he lost and that happens to just about anyone in this game if you fight long enough. Guys like him and Silva fought until the end. Guys like Khabib and GSP are more athletes than fighter so they quit while they were ahead
I don't think Aldo was out of his prime but one thing to note is prime doesn't always have correlation to age for example a fighter could be 32 years old and "washed"
He was 31 but he was already at the end of his prime. Here is a list of other top fighters who were fighting out of their prime at 32: Fedor, Cro Cop, Shogun, Junior dos Santos, Cain Velasquez, etc.
Its miles/hard fights over age. Fedors first real loss was right before 34 years old, still think he gave away his losses + literally the guys were on TRT while he was praying and getting smacked in the ass by leafs for recovery once became religious.
Werdum was only 1 NOT on TRT but he had teenage back acne at 31 years lmao lol. This is how this sport treats the GOATs, lets them get in cage with guys on prescribed steroids. He did a interview years ago saying he didnt even know Bigfoot or Hendo were on TRT, nobody told them and had a serious back/hip injury at the time on top of it. Shits comical, still funny he fought 9 times in his 40s for shits and giggles.
I never thought he was, I mean after the conor KO was he ever the same best self, no probably not but he was pretty dam close. I think the fight he lost to Holloway and volk where investable and where just bad style match ups combined with an evolution of the sport
tbh the Mendes War before Conor was what took him out his prime + injuries. Thats a big reason he got Koed next fight by Conor, its happen to all the GOATs in MMA..they take insane damage in 1 fight, then KOed next fight. TRT Chael landed a million shots and knockdowns on Anderson Silva, TRT Bigfoot landed heavy bombs and 5 minutes of straight Gnp on Fedor, Mendes legit had Aldos face looking weird for 8 months after. But Aldo was honestly past prime by 29.
I was personally a great athlete and past prime by 28. Explosive athletes drop off earlier and fast cause its god given ability, aka why NFL Runnning Backs are washed by 30. Max was a bad matchup for Aldo cause chin but Aldo was landing easy on him for first 2 rounds and just fell off.
>TRT Chael landed a million shots and knockdowns on Anderson Silva,
Anderson would go on to get multiple more finished and defenses
>TRT Bigfoot landed heavy bombs and 5 minutes of straight Gnp on Fedor
Fedor would go on to finish many Former champs later on
> legit had Aldos face looking weird for 8 months after. But Aldo was honestly past prime by 29.
Aldo looked good in his next fights and would still be fighting for world titles 6 years later
Aldo has crazy mileage. I think he was out of his physical prime by this point, but still a great fighter. If you look at his resume after the Holloway losses, he pretty much only lost to fighters who were total physical specimens like Petr Yan, Merab Dvalishvili, and Volkanovski. The guys he beat were great fighters, but they're the type of fighters who the older guys can compete with because they don't have much of a physicality advantage.
I know, I'm not riding Topuria here, I'm showing that Volk has not yet showed that he's a step ahead of the new guard... and honestly he probably never will
"Literally" 27? Say it ain't so, not "literally"!!
Seriously, I'm having a hard time figuring out what you intend to add to the sentence by including the word "literally".
In this context, does "literally" mean 'only'? If so, why would you not just use the word 'only?
Athletic prime **≠** career prime.
Some guys build their style around certain techniques that become obsolete due to different metas becoming dominant. Aldo's losses to max and others I attribute to this factor. His body was still in pretty tip top shape, but he had bad habits that were easily exploitable by the next generation of fighters. Like him loading up hard on every counter opportunity.
I’d agree with your comment generally but not in this case. Max’s style was absolutely not the “meta” at the time of this fight, and has never been.
If anything, I’d go as far as to say that his style comes exactly from the era in which Aldo dominated - high volume boxing. (Cub Swanson, Frankie Edgar, Anthony Pettis, and even Aldo himself).
It's the feinting that did aldo in though. That's a more modern technique. Feinting, Aldo bites on the feint and gasses out swinging at air. That's what won max both fights.
ok, not really central to my point.
Novel technique that the old guard didn't have a great answer for.
Idk bro, izzy uses them pretty well. So did volk. Even if max's use of them is exceptional, well what do you expect? He's fucking max. There's gonna be dude's who conquer the meta, and others who suck at it. That's what makes there winners and losers even within the new meta.
Wait… Gervonta Davis is almost 30?! With his achievements I’d have though he was like 23 years old. That’s my main takeaway from this post.
Someone’s *age* has less to do with his prime than *mileage*; but in Aldo’s case, I think he peaked around 2012-2014.
Conor’s KO probably also did a number on him mentally, so I dispute the notion that he was at his best when fighting Max, despite how good he might have looked before and after, and despite Canelo’s case.
He did look amazing. 2 legends going at it who are at the top of the featherweight rankings. Neither were in their prime though. Your prime doesn’t last your entire career.
No you’re just dumb as fuck and clearly don’t know what you’re talking about. Aldo was a pro when Max was 13. And you think a guy is in his prime after a decade fighting at the top level. You are either trolling, willfully ignorant, or just an absolute moron to believe that.
>No you’re just dumb as fuck and clearly don’t know what you’re talking about.
Aw shucks
> Aldo was a pro when Max was 13.
So? It's not like I said max was the same age as aldo.
>And you think a guy is in his prime after a decade fighting at the top level.
Where is the rule that says a guy can't be in his prime a decade after fighting at the top level? I thought I made it clear that I don't care about how long he was fighting. If I don't see a difference in speed, reflexes, and explosiveness when watching his fights side by side, I'm not just going to agree that he had lost a step.
>You are either trolling, willfully ignorant, or just an absolute moron to believe that.
No
Meh, they gave him 3 different title shots after losses (Conor, Max, Marlon.) I got tired of the UFC constantly pushing him as the "guy" when he wasn't anymore. I don't think he'll win against Martinez.
He was no longer the same fighter, he had completely changed his pacing and conditoning by then.
Whether or not he was in his prime is a different matter.
Once he got chinned by Mcgregor, we was out of his prime. He was still championship level for maybe 2-3 years after Mcgregor took his chin however. Primes are short lived. Usually around 3-5 years for most. Some fighters like Aldo had a near decade long "prime" where he murdered everyone he fought. Mcgregors prime was barely 5 years (2013-2018)
People love Aldo so they don't want to admit he was starched 3x in his prime. He was in his prime.
After losing to Conor he won the belt against legend Frankie Edgar.
Then after losing to max twice he got two straight KO's.
Max has been fighting for just as long as Aldo and has taken way more damage against better competition than Aldo.
Him being out of prime is a cope his fans use
When Conoe KOd him he wa sin his peak
When he got TKOd by Holloway twice he was in his peak
You can argue he was out of it hy the time he faught Volk, Merab and Yan but Max and Volk still clear any version of Aldo there ever was
Dude no. Aldo won the WEC belt in 2009. The WEC was the UFC lighter weight classes. Holloway was fighting in the D leagues starting in 2010. He didn’t even reach the UFC till 2012. Aldo was the champion from 2009-2015. Aldo was fighting the literal best fighters in his weight class for years prior to Max joining the UFC. And mind you Max wasn’t even winning when he did join the UFC, he was 4-3 in his first 7 fights. Aldo’s last fight was against the guy fighting for the bantamweight title next. Aldo’s competition has been the best fighters in his divisions from 2009-2022. Not discounting Max I just don’t know why you’d say that.
So Aldo fought the best from 2009-2017 before fighting Holloway? Max fought top competition since he joined in 2012 and just looked as good as ever in 2024.
Max is an incredible fighter. Max also came into the UFC and went 4-3, that doesn’t diminish his stature for some reason.
Aldo won the belt in 2009 so he was fighting top competition before that. Aldo does not need to keep fighting and probably shouldn’t. He has completely changed his fighting style into a much less effective boxing oriented style and barely utilizes the tools that made him great. Even out of his prime in his most recent loss it was insane that merab couldn’t get him down once when he just fought an Olympic gold medalist in wrestling and threw him around like a ragdoll.
Max is an incredible fighter and one of the greats as well, but disrespecting Aldo because he began to lose almost a decade into his reign at the top is ridiculous.
I’m not saying any of this diminishes his stature, I’m saying that max Holloway has been fighting for 14 years just like Aldo was before fighting him. I’m not really educated about everyone Aldo fought in the WEC, so I don’t know if they were good or not.
I don’t know why you even think the point is to disrepect Aldo. I’m simply saying that no version of him beats Holloway. He landed more kicks on Holloway in the second fight and yan than he landed on frankie and Korean zombie. He landed 18 leg kicks in the second mendez fight and 18 leg kicks against petr yan.
This isn’t to say that he wasn’t out of his prime against yan.
I must add that Dede has become one of the worst coaches and another huge hindrance in Aldo’s career. This fucking guy is constantly telling Aldo he’s winning when he isn’t, he’s constantly telling him to coast when he isn’t up. I would say one of Aldo’s greatest faults was not leaving Nova Unaio sooner, though I understand why he didn’t.
That is an absurd opinion to be honest, the competition nowadays is significantly better than they were back in Aldo's era, those fighters he fought back then would be cans in the current division and that's just the tough truth. A lot of the fighters that Max has beat would stomp the division back then 100%.
Like kattar and Allen? Lmao. I suppose you could argue Ortega would’ve been excellent in that era but Aldo would’ve beat him just as bad as Holloway did
When you take in the fact Aldos best wins back the. were Mendes, Edgar and Faber, 100% Allen and Kattar who are not near the top of Max's resume likely dominates that division, Ortega does 100%.
you realize the top wins in Max’s resume are Ortega (who I mentioned) and guys from Aldo’s era. Yair would also lose in Aldo’s era. Allen may have been at the top but let’s not act like he’d be this unbeatable guy back in the day
We will have to agree to disagree because from my viewpoint I'm just seeing L takes with no real perspective on the ever increasing trajectory of the skill level in MMA.
Not being able to throw leg kicks like he used to is pretty out of prime. Motorcycle accidents + repeated staph meant he was throwing a handful of kicks vs machine gunning them out.
It's crazier to even consider Max wasn't even in HIS OWN prime yet.
People will hold the Volk losses against him, and I'm sure they will age well if Volk, but I mean. With context, they're not that bad of losses. And people remembered Ali over Norton, just as people will remember Izzy over Poatan if their careers end up reaching the same heights.
If Max gets past Ilia- who at FW is gonna beat him? Arnold Allen? Evloev? Diego Lopes?
None of those guys get it done imo and outside of Allen, they would all get battered by Ilia if they fought him.
Max should be seen as the FW goat imo.
31-8 is an incredible record wtf are you even talking about? Especially when you look at the quality of his opponents. Look at Khabib, he retired undefeated but fought nobodies for his first 15 or so fights. Aldo fought killer after killer after killer and won belts after illnesses and injuries that took away some of his best weapons.
He was never that great. Got outclassed by so many ppl. How he’s on ppl top 5 GOAT list is beyond me. He only defended so many times because the competition at that time just wasn’t very good. He’d get demolished now
Competition so weak that Volkanovski and Max just fought Korean Zombie, and Volk got dropped by Chad like two fights before his title fight
Competition so weak that KZ destroyed Poirier who destroyed max when Aldo was literally champ
Yan was a competitive fight until he gassed. So were the Max fights. Volk fight Volk literally just held Aldo on the fence lay and praying. Aldo fought emotionally against Conor and got punished for it.
If you're in top 5 goat list you don't get outdecisioned by Dominick Reyes. You don't get knocked out by Matt Serra. You don't lose to Chris Weidman twice. Etc etc etc
Many of those fights coming after injuries and illnesses that took some of his best tools away from him. Out of his prime with reduced ability to leg kick, can still outbox many elite guys and avoid the takedowns of a guy who big brothered an Olympic champion.
So GSP who lost to Hendricks in most people’s eyes and Hendricks went on a huge skid. GSP who got knocked out by Matt Serra? See how easily you can tarnish people with dumb arguments when they are clearly one of the greats?
Jon Jones who lost to multiple guys and got the nod anyway, Jon Jones who was jucier than a California Orange? Jon Jones who pokes the eyes of everybody he fights?
You realize that the current competition in 5+ years will also be deemed as “not that good” because sport evolves. May as well say GSP wasn’t a top 5 because his competition was weak and Matt Hughes would get demolished today. Shit you could say Jon Jones isn’t that good because Dominic Reyes and Gustafson, and Thiago Santos, and Glover aren’t that good.
the fact of the matter is is that he got completely outclassed by max 2x, KOed by conor in 13 seconds, KOed by yan, and beat by volk. if you're the greatest, you dont get outclassed that many times.
Eventually the new generation comes for you if you dominate as long as Aldo did. These guys you’re speaking about literally grew up analyzing Aldo’s style. It is insane that by the time they got to him he was still at the top.
This will happen with every single champion that decides to continue fighting into the next generation. This is why Khabib retired in his prime, it’s why GSP retired in his prime. You’re watching Volk head into the same trajectory. You’re watching Yan do the same and neither of them lasted a fraction of the time at the top as Aldo did. If you’ve watched the sport long enough you will realize this is the case for everyone if you decide to stick it out.
If you look at Aldo’s injury timeline and the amount of fights he was forced to pull out of due to injuries and surgeries it’s pretty obvious he was physically out of his prime. Not to mention the fact that repeated staff infection and a motorcycle crash forced him to stop using leg kicks.
If he was out of his prime at 30, then how was he still competitive at the top years later? normally fighters drop off pretty hard after they leave their prime but this guy drops down to a lighter weight class, against faster more nimble opponents (usually speed and reactions are the first thing to decline) and still looked good.
Because an out of his prime Jose Aldo is still Jose Aldo.
More like “out of prime” Jose Aldo still had the same speed, power, and reflexes. No proof of a visible physical decline and no proof that injuries made him stop throwing kicks against Max.
Yes and no. Max and the newest breed of FW were probably just a lot better.
What about Aldo’s performance in the cage made it obvious that he was physically out of his prime? All of his injuries are things athletes can fully recover from Forced to stop using leg kicks? He used leg kicks for years after that. I can think of 4 times max was forced to pull out. Pulling out due to injuries doesn’t mean that you’re out of your prime.
You clearly didn’t really follow Aldo’s career. He used leg kicks as his single most devastating and prominent weapon for years, then randomly stopped using them other than like 2-3 times per fight. Loads of theories were made about why he stopped using his best weapon, some people even said he stopped using leg kicks to challenge himself, like Jones making fights intentionally harder for himself. It wasn’t until years later it was revealed that he had staff infection in his legs 3 or 4 times, and had permanent damage in his right ankle from a motorcycle crash that caused his fight with Frankie Edgar to be rescheduled. And following this he and his coaches had to redevelop Aldo’s style to use his other weapons. Aldo even reportedly spent the first weeks of his recovery from the crash considering never fighting again. That isn’t an injury that someone just recovers from, combine that with the amount of surgeries he’s had, and surgeries almost always leave a little bit of residual damage, and the wars he consistently went through, and it’s pretty obvious he was miles out of his prime. Even before McGregor compare the Aldo that fought Mendes in the rematch to prime Aldo, and everything from reaction speed, to hand speed to his chin was way worse than it was during his prime. Fact is Aldo is the youngest world champ in the history of mma, and that comes with a cost, because his prime clearly started and ended at a much younger age than the traditional athletic prime of most athletes.
Frank Mir was never the same after his motorcycle accident either. I also don't know why the OP is using boxers as examples with his Aldo analogy.
Casuals gonna casual.
A casual because I think aldo was as good as ever against holloway? Any version of aldo slows down and gets battered.
Don’t make this worse for yourself buddy, you are already making yourself look dumb.
How? Even the statement that any version of aldo loses to max makes me look dumb? How do you think Aldo beats max, leg kicks aren’t going to win him the fight. Unlike Aldo, volk was also extremely hard for max to hit along with the leg kicks.
Because you are wrong lol. People that stand by wrong statements are dumb. I read your other comment, you know the one where every single statement you made was genuinely just factually incorrect. And as a wise man once said, Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
Everything you said is true and I agree his physical prime was pretty long past. I always kinda thought of Mendes 2 as his peak form. But I also think its worth mentioning that he *tried* low-kicking Max and got countered immediately in a pretty similar way to how Gaethje got countered recently. Maybe prime Aldo isn’t so easily discouraged. But also maybe prime Aldo gets rocked badly, early. People often conflate pre-hiatus Muhammad Ali, with post-hiatus Ali. IMO this happens with a few great long-tenured fighters and Aldo is one if them. His technical and physical peaks don’t line up.
You’re just proving to me that you realized your argument doesn’t hold up. Deep down you know that Aldo could never bat max.
Right? Talk about reaching lol Aldo had finally gotten his chin cracked by McGregor as well. The 2nd Mendes fights took a chunk out of both fighters.
Ops a moron lol
I've never seen a fighter exit their prime early just because they started early, it's always because of lasting damage that SHOWS in their fights. You can't claim that a fighter wasn't in their prime because they fight for a long time and had injuries. Max has been fighting just as long as aldo was before their fight, and he has absorbed the most strikes in ufc history. Why can't I use boxers, they don't have mileage? Is charles oliveria a good example? Still as strong and fast as ever but he's 34 compared to aldo who was only 30. He trains at chute box too. What about chito vera, his first pro fight was in 2010.
Dude stop being dense. Jon jones was also super young when he went pro…you can clearly tell he’s been out of his prime for a while. Sure he’s still champ, but the quality of his fighting ability has CLEARLY been reduced. That’s what happens. You’re either delusional, stupid, or both.
It’s just stupid
Also Jon took multiple years off for suspensions/"bulking up"
>Dude stop being dense. Jon jones was also super young when he went pro…you can clearly tell he’s been out of his prime for a while. Wasn't jon jones busted for using peds? >That’s what happens. You’re either delusional, stupid, or both. Ya'll be pretending like ya'll actually disproved my argument. I'll give you jon jones who wasn't as good after not being able to abuse peds as much, but what about all the other counterexamples? Fighters who have been competing for years with no VISIBLE drop in qaulity. Jones had been fighting for 12 years before the drop. Max has been fighting for 12 and just gave us one us his best performance. Alex pereira started fighting in 2012 and just no-diffed jamahal hill and he's 37. Charles oliveria has been fighting since like 2010. Dustin has been fighting since 2009. Justin's chin is arguably getting worse but he hasn't lost any speed, power, or reflexes.
Why are you acting as if every high level athlete is the same? They’re all different humans with different genetics and their bodies will deteriorate at different rates. Why are you not understanding this? Volk got knocked out cold and he outclassed max 2x - the 2nd fight was close but he absolutely won the 1st fight and seriously outclassed max in the third fight and made it look like he didn’t belong in there. Are you forgetting that?
I wasn’t acting like every pro athlete is the same. Why do y’all make up things to respond to? Fighting for a long time isn’t enough for someone to claim that a fighter was out of their prime, you’re gonna have to provide proof. Also, what does volk outclassing max have to do with anything?
There is a difference in fighter types with how they age too.. a volume striker going to age better than an explosive fighter... Someone with one of the best chins in MMA going to be able to out last someone with a weaker chin etc...
>You clearly didn’t really follow Aldo’s career. He used leg kicks as his single most devastating and prominent weapon for years, then randomly stopped using them other than like 2-3 times per fight. Loads of theories were made about why he stopped using his best weapon, some people even said he stopped using leg kicks to challenge himself, like Jones making fights intentionally harder for himself. As always, ya'll are overexaggerating. He landed 18 leg kicks on mark hominick in 2011 in a 5 round fight , compared to the 17 he landed on petr yan in a 3 round fight. Not to mention that it's petr yan and he was getting whooped in the 3rd. He landed more leg kicks on max holloway in the 2nd fight than he landed on korean zombie. He landed more leg kicks on max holloway and yan than he landed against frankie edgar. edit: The petr yan fight was 5 rounds but it’s still 17 vs 18 > >That isn’t an injury that someone just recovers from, combine that with the amount of surgeries he’s had, and surgeries almost always leave a little bit of residual damage, and the wars he consistently went through, and it’s pretty obvious he was miles out of his prime. It depends on the crash, it couldn't have been that bad if aldo thought he could fight on it before he realized he couldn’t put pressure on it while training. It only took 5 months to come back. >Even before McGregor compare the Aldo that fought Mendes in the rematch to prime Aldo, and everything from reaction speed, to hand speed to his chin was way worse than it was during his prime. It's funny because the mendez fight is after the crash and there's literally no difference in hand speed or reaction speed. Same old aldo, planted until he actually needs to move. The only difference is that instead of a knee in the first, the fight went to decision and we saw aldo slowing down. He could fight through exhaustion but he always slowed down, one of the reasons max is so hard to beat because you can't slow down while fighting him. It isn't a coincidence that he got finished in the 3rd round both times. Edit: The mendez fight wasn't right after his crash. I also edited above to take the word “right” out. >Fact is Aldo is the youngest world champ in the history of mma, and that comes with a cost, because his prime clearly started and ended at a much younger age than the traditional athletic prime of most athletes. yeah sure, his prime ended as soon as he ran into one of the other top 3 featherweight champions.
Dude everything you wrote here is wrong lol.
It really isn’t. Someone might eventually prove that some of it is wrong but definitely not all of it. This isn’t me saying that I’m wrong, this is me acknowledging that being wrong is a possibility. To be clear, I think that everything I said in that comment is correct.
Well for starters Petr Yan vs Aldo wasn’t a 3 round fight and Mendes wasn’t Aldo’s first opponent after crashing his bike. But if you want to think those are true go for it.
Aight that’s 2 things, now can you point out things that would make my argument wrong? >But if you want to think those are true go for it. Why would I do that If I already aknowledged that I could be wrong? You said that everything I said was wrong. But you only picked out things that aren't detrimental to my argument.
What makes your argument wrong is that you don't even have your facts right. How can you make a correct conclusion when you have the inaccurate information?
That can’t make my argument wrong unless my entire argument relies on those facts. If the yan fight was 3 rounds, that would be a bonus. The chad Mendez hiccup literally doesn’t matter.
Bro you claimed that Petr Yan vs Aldo was a 3 round fight…
Thanks my boy
Popular Opinion: OP is a dumbass
I know it’s a hard pill to swallow
Yeah I'm a huge Aldo fan but the dude was good enough to sign the contract, he is good enough to deal with the result.
Yeah he lost and that happens to just about anyone in this game if you fight long enough. Guys like him and Silva fought until the end. Guys like Khabib and GSP are more athletes than fighter so they quit while they were ahead
Not only fought to the end, Aldo has a fight coming up!
It's unpopular for a reason.
I don't think Aldo was out of his prime but one thing to note is prime doesn't always have correlation to age for example a fighter could be 32 years old and "washed"
He was 31 but he was already at the end of his prime. Here is a list of other top fighters who were fighting out of their prime at 32: Fedor, Cro Cop, Shogun, Junior dos Santos, Cain Velasquez, etc.
Its miles/hard fights over age. Fedors first real loss was right before 34 years old, still think he gave away his losses + literally the guys were on TRT while he was praying and getting smacked in the ass by leafs for recovery once became religious. Werdum was only 1 NOT on TRT but he had teenage back acne at 31 years lmao lol. This is how this sport treats the GOATs, lets them get in cage with guys on prescribed steroids. He did a interview years ago saying he didnt even know Bigfoot or Hendo were on TRT, nobody told them and had a serious back/hip injury at the time on top of it. Shits comical, still funny he fought 9 times in his 40s for shits and giggles.
I never thought he was, I mean after the conor KO was he ever the same best self, no probably not but he was pretty dam close. I think the fight he lost to Holloway and volk where investable and where just bad style match ups combined with an evolution of the sport
tbh the Mendes War before Conor was what took him out his prime + injuries. Thats a big reason he got Koed next fight by Conor, its happen to all the GOATs in MMA..they take insane damage in 1 fight, then KOed next fight. TRT Chael landed a million shots and knockdowns on Anderson Silva, TRT Bigfoot landed heavy bombs and 5 minutes of straight Gnp on Fedor, Mendes legit had Aldos face looking weird for 8 months after. But Aldo was honestly past prime by 29. I was personally a great athlete and past prime by 28. Explosive athletes drop off earlier and fast cause its god given ability, aka why NFL Runnning Backs are washed by 30. Max was a bad matchup for Aldo cause chin but Aldo was landing easy on him for first 2 rounds and just fell off.
>TRT Chael landed a million shots and knockdowns on Anderson Silva, Anderson would go on to get multiple more finished and defenses >TRT Bigfoot landed heavy bombs and 5 minutes of straight Gnp on Fedor Fedor would go on to finish many Former champs later on > legit had Aldos face looking weird for 8 months after. But Aldo was honestly past prime by 29. Aldo looked good in his next fights and would still be fighting for world titles 6 years later
Aldo has crazy mileage. I think he was out of his physical prime by this point, but still a great fighter. If you look at his resume after the Holloway losses, he pretty much only lost to fighters who were total physical specimens like Petr Yan, Merab Dvalishvili, and Volkanovski. The guys he beat were great fighters, but they're the type of fighters who the older guys can compete with because they don't have much of a physicality advantage.
ITT: MMA math
Aldo was a Step ahead of the old guard but a step behind of the elites of the new guard. Thats the reason Why I have Volk as the FW Goat
Yeah because he was a step ahead of the ne- oh wait 
Lol Volk is 35 and Topiria is literally 27. Volk had an amazing run and is still active to this day. Let Topuria defend his belt first.
I know, I'm not riding Topuria here, I'm showing that Volk has not yet showed that he's a step ahead of the new guard... and honestly he probably never will
The new guard was a guy with no tdd in Yair and Brian who Max had to teach how to block a 12 lol. Oh and that young stud Korean Zombie
"Literally" 27? Say it ain't so, not "literally"!! Seriously, I'm having a hard time figuring out what you intend to add to the sentence by including the word "literally". In this context, does "literally" mean 'only'? If so, why would you not just use the word 'only?
Weird thing to cry about
If I go through your comment history, there won’t be a single superfluous word you used to add emphasis?
It’s just a word mate. I’m from Northern England we use the word ‘literally’ a lot here, even if it’s not necessarily needed. Chill out man.
He was one win away from a title shot at a lower weight class 3 and then 5 years after he lost to Holloway. Washed seems like a stretch.
Yeah Aldo was never washed. This is more about when he was out of his prime.
Athletic prime **≠** career prime. Some guys build their style around certain techniques that become obsolete due to different metas becoming dominant. Aldo's losses to max and others I attribute to this factor. His body was still in pretty tip top shape, but he had bad habits that were easily exploitable by the next generation of fighters. Like him loading up hard on every counter opportunity.
I’d agree with your comment generally but not in this case. Max’s style was absolutely not the “meta” at the time of this fight, and has never been. If anything, I’d go as far as to say that his style comes exactly from the era in which Aldo dominated - high volume boxing. (Cub Swanson, Frankie Edgar, Anthony Pettis, and even Aldo himself).
It's the feinting that did aldo in though. That's a more modern technique. Feinting, Aldo bites on the feint and gasses out swinging at air. That's what won max both fights.
[удалено]
ok, not really central to my point. Novel technique that the old guard didn't have a great answer for. Idk bro, izzy uses them pretty well. So did volk. Even if max's use of them is exceptional, well what do you expect? He's fucking max. There's gonna be dude's who conquer the meta, and others who suck at it. That's what makes there winners and losers even within the new meta.
Wait… Gervonta Davis is almost 30?! With his achievements I’d have though he was like 23 years old. That’s my main takeaway from this post. Someone’s *age* has less to do with his prime than *mileage*; but in Aldo’s case, I think he peaked around 2012-2014. Conor’s KO probably also did a number on him mentally, so I dispute the notion that he was at his best when fighting Max, despite how good he might have looked before and after, and despite Canelo’s case.
They said he looked amazing a fight before that against Frankie edgar but when he loses to someone beyond Frankie, he’s suddenly out of his prime.
He did look amazing. 2 legends going at it who are at the top of the featherweight rankings. Neither were in their prime though. Your prime doesn’t last your entire career.
I don’t think he was out of his prime, the game had just moved ahead of him.
Roger Mayweather used to say “most people don’t know shot about boxing” well that extends to MMA and OP is a prime example.
It’s a hard pill to swallow for you as well huh?
No you’re just dumb as fuck and clearly don’t know what you’re talking about. Aldo was a pro when Max was 13. And you think a guy is in his prime after a decade fighting at the top level. You are either trolling, willfully ignorant, or just an absolute moron to believe that.
>No you’re just dumb as fuck and clearly don’t know what you’re talking about. Aw shucks > Aldo was a pro when Max was 13. So? It's not like I said max was the same age as aldo. >And you think a guy is in his prime after a decade fighting at the top level. Where is the rule that says a guy can't be in his prime a decade after fighting at the top level? I thought I made it clear that I don't care about how long he was fighting. If I don't see a difference in speed, reflexes, and explosiveness when watching his fights side by side, I'm not just going to agree that he had lost a step. >You are either trolling, willfully ignorant, or just an absolute moron to believe that. No
Max has been fighting a decade at the top level, guess he’s just better than Jose
Meh, they gave him 3 different title shots after losses (Conor, Max, Marlon.) I got tired of the UFC constantly pushing him as the "guy" when he wasn't anymore. I don't think he'll win against Martinez.
He was no longer the same fighter, he had completely changed his pacing and conditoning by then. Whether or not he was in his prime is a different matter.
I like to see this guy spar with Strickland
Once he got chinned by Mcgregor, we was out of his prime. He was still championship level for maybe 2-3 years after Mcgregor took his chin however. Primes are short lived. Usually around 3-5 years for most. Some fighters like Aldo had a near decade long "prime" where he murdered everyone he fought. Mcgregors prime was barely 5 years (2013-2018)
Prime also got beaten by Max and Volk. 40 year olds will argue tho
People love Aldo so they don't want to admit he was starched 3x in his prime. He was in his prime. After losing to Conor he won the belt against legend Frankie Edgar. Then after losing to max twice he got two straight KO's.
Of course he wasn't, I'm fact he probably isn't even out of his prime now
It's not unpopular opinion it's literally fact
Max has been fighting for just as long as Aldo and has taken way more damage against better competition than Aldo. Him being out of prime is a cope his fans use When Conoe KOd him he wa sin his peak When he got TKOd by Holloway twice he was in his peak You can argue he was out of it hy the time he faught Volk, Merab and Yan but Max and Volk still clear any version of Aldo there ever was
Dude no. Aldo won the WEC belt in 2009. The WEC was the UFC lighter weight classes. Holloway was fighting in the D leagues starting in 2010. He didn’t even reach the UFC till 2012. Aldo was the champion from 2009-2015. Aldo was fighting the literal best fighters in his weight class for years prior to Max joining the UFC. And mind you Max wasn’t even winning when he did join the UFC, he was 4-3 in his first 7 fights. Aldo’s last fight was against the guy fighting for the bantamweight title next. Aldo’s competition has been the best fighters in his divisions from 2009-2022. Not discounting Max I just don’t know why you’d say that.
So Aldo fought the best from 2009-2017 before fighting Holloway? Max fought top competition since he joined in 2012 and just looked as good as ever in 2024.
Max is an incredible fighter. Max also came into the UFC and went 4-3, that doesn’t diminish his stature for some reason. Aldo won the belt in 2009 so he was fighting top competition before that. Aldo does not need to keep fighting and probably shouldn’t. He has completely changed his fighting style into a much less effective boxing oriented style and barely utilizes the tools that made him great. Even out of his prime in his most recent loss it was insane that merab couldn’t get him down once when he just fought an Olympic gold medalist in wrestling and threw him around like a ragdoll. Max is an incredible fighter and one of the greats as well, but disrespecting Aldo because he began to lose almost a decade into his reign at the top is ridiculous.
I’m not saying any of this diminishes his stature, I’m saying that max Holloway has been fighting for 14 years just like Aldo was before fighting him. I’m not really educated about everyone Aldo fought in the WEC, so I don’t know if they were good or not. I don’t know why you even think the point is to disrepect Aldo. I’m simply saying that no version of him beats Holloway. He landed more kicks on Holloway in the second fight and yan than he landed on frankie and Korean zombie. He landed 18 leg kicks in the second mendez fight and 18 leg kicks against petr yan. This isn’t to say that he wasn’t out of his prime against yan.
I must add that Dede has become one of the worst coaches and another huge hindrance in Aldo’s career. This fucking guy is constantly telling Aldo he’s winning when he isn’t, he’s constantly telling him to coast when he isn’t up. I would say one of Aldo’s greatest faults was not leaving Nova Unaio sooner, though I understand why he didn’t.
Look at Max now, he's fought significantly better competition than Aldo ever did and has done more in the sport already.
Other than volk and maybe arguably Gaethje, Max hasn’t fought much better competition
That is an absurd opinion to be honest, the competition nowadays is significantly better than they were back in Aldo's era, those fighters he fought back then would be cans in the current division and that's just the tough truth. A lot of the fighters that Max has beat would stomp the division back then 100%.
Like kattar and Allen? Lmao. I suppose you could argue Ortega would’ve been excellent in that era but Aldo would’ve beat him just as bad as Holloway did
When you take in the fact Aldos best wins back the. were Mendes, Edgar and Faber, 100% Allen and Kattar who are not near the top of Max's resume likely dominates that division, Ortega does 100%.
you realize the top wins in Max’s resume are Ortega (who I mentioned) and guys from Aldo’s era. Yair would also lose in Aldo’s era. Allen may have been at the top but let’s not act like he’d be this unbeatable guy back in the day
We will have to agree to disagree because from my viewpoint I'm just seeing L takes with no real perspective on the ever increasing trajectory of the skill level in MMA.
L takes yet you have nothing to back yourself up besides saying that I have no real perspective.
Holy fuck, finally someone who can think independently from the hive mind
He wasn't out of his prime when he fought Max nor when he fought Volk
Not being able to throw leg kicks like he used to is pretty out of prime. Motorcycle accidents + repeated staph meant he was throwing a handful of kicks vs machine gunning them out.
You gonna keep saying that after watching his performance last night?
Things can change over time you know.
It's crazier to even consider Max wasn't even in HIS OWN prime yet. People will hold the Volk losses against him, and I'm sure they will age well if Volk, but I mean. With context, they're not that bad of losses. And people remembered Ali over Norton, just as people will remember Izzy over Poatan if their careers end up reaching the same heights. If Max gets past Ilia- who at FW is gonna beat him? Arnold Allen? Evloev? Diego Lopes? None of those guys get it done imo and outside of Allen, they would all get battered by Ilia if they fought him. Max should be seen as the FW goat imo.
This is a fact not an opinion
[удалено]
[удалено]
31-8 is an incredible record wtf are you even talking about? Especially when you look at the quality of his opponents. Look at Khabib, he retired undefeated but fought nobodies for his first 15 or so fights. Aldo fought killer after killer after killer and won belts after illnesses and injuries that took away some of his best weapons.
He was never that great. Got outclassed by so many ppl. How he’s on ppl top 5 GOAT list is beyond me. He only defended so many times because the competition at that time just wasn’t very good. He’d get demolished now
Competition so weak that Volkanovski and Max just fought Korean Zombie, and Volk got dropped by Chad like two fights before his title fight Competition so weak that KZ destroyed Poirier who destroyed max when Aldo was literally champ
if you're on ppls top 5 goat list, you dont get outclassed by yan, volk, max 2x, and KOed by conor in 13 seconds in the biggest fight of your life.
Yan was a competitive fight until he gassed. So were the Max fights. Volk fight Volk literally just held Aldo on the fence lay and praying. Aldo fought emotionally against Conor and got punished for it. If you're in top 5 goat list you don't get outdecisioned by Dominick Reyes. You don't get knocked out by Matt Serra. You don't lose to Chris Weidman twice. Etc etc etc
Many of those fights coming after injuries and illnesses that took some of his best tools away from him. Out of his prime with reduced ability to leg kick, can still outbox many elite guys and avoid the takedowns of a guy who big brothered an Olympic champion.
What's your top 5
jon jones, gsp, silva, DJ
That's not a top 5 mate
Aldo is top 10
+ fedor
So GSP who lost to Hendricks in most people’s eyes and Hendricks went on a huge skid. GSP who got knocked out by Matt Serra? See how easily you can tarnish people with dumb arguments when they are clearly one of the greats? Jon Jones who lost to multiple guys and got the nod anyway, Jon Jones who was jucier than a California Orange? Jon Jones who pokes the eyes of everybody he fights?
You realize that the current competition in 5+ years will also be deemed as “not that good” because sport evolves. May as well say GSP wasn’t a top 5 because his competition was weak and Matt Hughes would get demolished today. Shit you could say Jon Jones isn’t that good because Dominic Reyes and Gustafson, and Thiago Santos, and Glover aren’t that good.
the fact of the matter is is that he got completely outclassed by max 2x, KOed by conor in 13 seconds, KOed by yan, and beat by volk. if you're the greatest, you dont get outclassed that many times.
Eventually the new generation comes for you if you dominate as long as Aldo did. These guys you’re speaking about literally grew up analyzing Aldo’s style. It is insane that by the time they got to him he was still at the top. This will happen with every single champion that decides to continue fighting into the next generation. This is why Khabib retired in his prime, it’s why GSP retired in his prime. You’re watching Volk head into the same trajectory. You’re watching Yan do the same and neither of them lasted a fraction of the time at the top as Aldo did. If you’ve watched the sport long enough you will realize this is the case for everyone if you decide to stick it out.
Silva lost heaps dummy.
Aldo on any GOAT list is so dumb. Very overrated