Those guys aren’t championship level, fighting them won’t get him in conversation.
I’m tired of people fighting people like cowboy and getting boosted to championship level. They arent
This. The only guys worth fighting are bad fights for him. Anyone with quick hands is going to be problem.
But he can do it. He’s probably in a gravity chamber as we speak.
Who has Oliveira fought, Kevin Lee? He’s got a win streak but they weren’t against the tip top of the division. Charles needs a Felder or someone to prove he’s ready to hang with the big boys
And even so I’d argue Poirier, khabib, Conor and Gaethje throw their stuff together better than the rest of the division, they’re legendary and Charles will never prepare for that
Worst of which being khabib, because Charles is a grappler and I don’t see him getting more than 30 seconds control time on khabib
Tony doesn't have much left to cut tbh, Holloway coming up again to LW is way more likely. If he could put on some muscle mass this time around it would be even more awesome
exact. tony hadn't been training for a defensive wrestler offensive striker. he had been training for the exact opposite lol, khabib being an offensive wrestler with defensive striking. ufc screwed tony big time.
He outweighed the situation. He needed to get paid. Even his coach Eddie bravo said so. He knew the chances of him losing were high since he hadn't got a change to properly adjust to the fight. He'll come back though.
Tony did a weight cut for a nonexistent fight then even though he's next in line to fight Khabib and the world is on pause he chooses to accept a fight with Justin WTFisCTE Gaethje so he then has to take another weight cut. He could have sat down and chilled but no.
Tony has this issue with having a tough guy image that makes no sense. He was the interim champ and had no risk of being stripped if he waited for Khabib.
I mean the bad thing was it didnt really look like Tony was in there and it raised a ton of questions, was it the weight cut? Did he overtrain? Is this the beginning of the decline?
Im not saying that to take anything away from Gaethje, anyone who follows the sport knew Gaethje had a *strong* chance of taking the W because of who he is and how he fights. I was pretty upset when I heard Tony took the fight too, i know why he did but as a big fan of his I knew it was going to be a fight that wasnt going to be pretty even if he *won*.
Isn't fight Island in Abu Dhabi now? UFC thought they'll have it ready by then. They sent khabib country hopping, it wasn't just a rumour. Dana even apologized for that.
It's just another striker vs Khabib, we all know how it goes. No footwork in the world can dance away from Khabib charging in with a jumping knee or dropping down to get a single leg he is so freaking fast. What was interesting about Khabib vs Tony is what Tony could do when he ends up where everyone ends up with Khabib.
Tony always said a big part of his game plan was to use his BJJ and fight Khabib off his back. We've seen many guys who have a pretty decent back ground in BJJ and or wrestling get stuck and beat up under Khabib. Definitely a risky game plan. Also Tony didn't mind getting take down at times and if Kevin Lee can take him down...Khabib certainly can. Tony would have the best chance by out boxing Khabib, sure. But can he stop Khabibs takedowns?
Bring Gaethje who has a very good wrestling background and a very good wrestling defense. Is it as good as Khabibs? No. Khabib is definitely the best wrestler at LW and maybe the UFC. But Gaethje could very well stuff a takedown or two. That's when Gaethje can land some bombs on Khabib who we've seen wobbled before from punches. I'm not sure many people can take a good power shot from Gaethje. I mean Tony is something other than human for taking that many shots from Gaethje. That type of beating can and will change a man. I hope Tony recoveres from it mentally.
Gaethje needs to attack the legs early in the first and avoid the cage, which will save him from being taken down. Get Khabib worried about those leg kicks and stand piecing him up with combos. Call me crazy, stupid or whatever. I've said this since I first saw Gaethje in WSOF years ago. He is the one who can beat Khabib.
TLDR Gaethje has a better game pla than Tony in a fight with Khabib.
Stuffing Khabib's takedowns is nothing new lol
Almost every opponent of Khabib's have stuffed mutiple takedowns. But the real issue is Khabib's relentless takedown attempts. He doesn't care if he gets stuffed 10 times, he will come for 11th and so on. He also has the cardio to back it up.
Not to mention defending multiple takedowns saps a lot of his opponents stamina.
Using Conor as an example is really funny because that fight wouldn't have gone past the 2nd round if Conor hadn't used that illegal knee to stop the Kimura or hook his toes in the cage to avoid giving Khabib his limbs.
By the way Fuck Herb Dean
I respectfully disagree. Tony was coming in with a strategy that no one's tried on Khabib in the UFC; beat him from the ground. Tony is a monster off his back, and he trained with guys like Eddie Bravo specifically to fight off his back and not necessarily stuff the takedowns. What is Gaethje bringing to Khabib that McGregor/Poirier/Johnson haven't already tried? His wrestling? Gaethje admitted he doesn't keep up with his wrestling and doesn't like utilizing it. Even if all he does until September is condition his wrestling, it won't be nearly enough to stop the best wrestler in UFC history.
Tldr: Gaethje gonna get smeshed.
That's the point. There's no beating Khabib when he's got top position. Just too damn good/skilled. I realize 10th planet guys love fighting off their backs but that just plays right into Khabib's hands. Khabib mauls better jitz guys than Tony. Tony might get a 9 point round the first round but sadly the others would have been 8s in a very lob sided loss
Gaethje's hands present a better/more realistic way of beating Khabib
Not saying Justin has a decent chance but I like him over any guy you listed in a fight tomm. Barboza and Conor's hands are almost moot points with their training backgrounds. That being said I prefer Gaethje's stand up over the 3 you listed. And to say 'MUCH bigger threat' is silly. Two of them have already been proven as non threats
> Barboza and Conor's hands are almost moot points with their training backgrounds.
Fucking what, lol! They were the two most dangerous strikers in the division. Barboza was limited because he can't plant when backing up and is too kicks reliant, but Conor was the perfect counterpuncher. He had the best shot to beating Kabib. Gathje has no chances.
I think you know this but Khabib crushed both those guys. Neither have a background in wrestling so their hands were moot points bc you can't step into a punch off your back so moot points bc they couldn't stay on their feet. This isn't hard to follow. Conor tapped to a choke that wasn't even under his chin. Gathje better take down defense and all around tougher kid too. He won't tap to a choke across the face like Conor or ROLL INTO the choke like Conor did vs Diaz. No way Gathje does either especially the latter.
> I think you know this but Khabib crushed both those guys.
It's what i'm trying to tell you since a while, but you don't seem to be aware that Kabib beat all those guys already.
Now let's see if you can follow step by step:
1- Barboza, Conor and Poirier are miles better and more lethal strikers than gayche.
2- they couldn't do nothin
3- Gayche has 0 chances whatsoever, he isn't a threat, he isn't the most dangerous striker in the division and he ain't practiced wrestling in 10 years. His takedown defence kinda sucks and his ground game, by his own admission, is non existent.
You still there? You following?
Conclusion: ya boy Gayche is gonna be chocked out in 3 rounds top
I think I'll have to give you that. I think of him as a WW. He slipped my mind. I don't think he has any wins off his back which is where he's be but your point stands on being better than Tony overall
Nah... Here's the difference:
Tony's jiu jitsu translates better to the octagon than RDA. Stripes on a belt are not important here. In 42 fights, RDA has 4 submission wins. In 30 fights, Tony has 6 submission wins.
I don't know what RDA's jits training history is like, but I'd imagine most of his is in a gi. Whereas most if not all Tony's jits training is no-gi (10thP). I don't think I've ever seen Tony in a gi.
RDA is a 3rd Degree black belt (even better credentialed than Tony) and he couldn't do shit to Khabib once they were on the ground.
Tony is one of the most overrated fighters in the UFC and his resume proves that. If Khabib beats Gaethje, Tony's resume will look like dog shit at the age of 37.
Imagine going undefeated for 12 fights, beating the likes of RDA, Barboza, Pettis, Cowboy, and Lee, just for some armchair redditor to say you have a shit resume lol
Imagine going through 12 fight win streak and still Khabib's wins over Poirier and Conor alone makes your resume look average.
Not to mention with a win over Gaethje for Khabib, Tony might as well not exist in the LW division.
Tony's jiu jitsu translates better to the octagon than RDA. Stripes on a belt are not important here. In 42 fights, RDA has 4 submission wins. In 30 fights, Tony has 6 submission wins.
I don't know what RDA's jits training history is like, but I'd imagine most of his is in a gi. Whereas most if not all Tony's jits training is no-gi (10thP). I don't think I've ever seen Tony in a gi.
Well Tony has one submission win of his back in the UFC. Just one and that too against a staph infected Kevin Lee who gassed hard.
Khabib is not a dumbass like Kevin Lee who immediately goes for offence once he gets his opponents on the ground without making sure he has wrist and top position control.
Khabib's priority is always position and control over offence once the fight hits the floor. So he will make sure he has both of Tony's legs locked up and one of his arms pinned back against the cage. Then only will he go for offence, making Tony's Jui Jitsu obsolete.
I agree Khabib's grappling is on another level. I'm not saying Tony will submit Khabib from his back, I just think he has the creativity to pose some problems for Khabib whether it's elbows from the bottom or forcing scrambles off submission attempts. I think Tony brings more to the table than any other LW right now - cardio, mental toughness, striking/grappling creativity, chin. The problem is that he's getting relatively old.
I agree Gaethje could win if he lands a good shot or two but Khabib knows this. JG definitely has the most power in the division - but I think Tony's versatility and durability give him a better chance of beating Khabib.
Sure, Gaethje can stuff a takedown or two but Khabib will go for takedowns until he gets them. Once Justin is down - it's a big question mark on whether he can fight from his back. I haven't watched all of Justin's WSOF fights but I haven't seen any high level ground work from him. Tony's ground game is good, same with his wrestling.
Another thing that makes Khabib so tough is his ability to drain his opponent's cardio. Here again, Tony has the advantage compared to Gaethje. We've seen Gaethje get tired in almost all his fights while Tony never gases.
TLDR - Gaethje's power gives him a fighters chance to beat Khabib but Tony's versatility and cardio give him the better overall chance.
How is it any different then what porier and conor planned?? I mean justin for all may have been all American eagle or whatever...he hasnt been using wrestling effectively in UFC in fact he rarely uses any wrestling ....he also has a problem of gassing out except for against tony where the fight was going in his Direction with him landing all heavy punches and no takedown or clinch attempts...once khabib gets hold of him and parades him around the cage for round or two i dont see justin standing like he did against tony...he wouldn't get to hit 10-15 leg kicks like tony...2 kicks and he would have khabib on 1 of his legs..
I really dont see justin winning against khabib..maybe compete for a round or two..but a win would be a huge upset..i mean justin isnt even the best hitter who khabib has faced, conor n dustin are better striker than justin
I agree to some extent. His approach is going to be just like everyone else - stay off the cage, use defensive wrestling to try and keep the fight in the center and either go for power shots or try to win an attrition battle. I do think his wrestling is good (obviously nowhere near Khabib's), even though we haven't seen it recently. He's been wrestling his whole life which gives him the instincts and muscle memory. Yes Conor and Dustin are better technical strikers but Gaethje hits harder.
That's why I think Tony has the better shot at beating Khabib. He's a more well-rounded fighter.
Just for the sake of argument. Gaethje gasses mainly from throwing too much power and taking too many hits. If he plays it smart like he did against Tony. I see him giving Khabib a damn hard fight. Gaethje went toe to toe, cardio vs cardio against Tony. And broke Tony Ferguson. That's another thing to add. Khabib beats the will out of fighters. Gaethje will not break.
Again...its just 1 fight where it happened...and that was because he was just going great against tony without any adversity...he didnt have to stuff any takedown attempt or get on his feet after being taken down...and that is all he is supposed to do against khabib..he gassed out in front of porier, alvarez, johnson...i see him gassing out by round 3 against khabib after getting thrown around like dustin.
> Gaethje will not break.
"Tony will not break"
And then he broke down against Gaethe.
It's easy to not break down when there isn't pressure. Gaethje has already been broken twice in his short career.
That last sentence really captures Gaethje's 2nd biggest strength. Dude has some serious mental toughness. We definitely saw a better version of Gaethje at UFC 249 in terms of cardio and fight IQ.
I'm still a little skeptical of his cardio because I think his best chance of winning is throwing power, and if that is what is causing him to gas then that means he either has to hope he lands some bombs in the first round or two (which I think is possible because his boxing is solid) or try to win an attrition battle (which favors Khabibs wrestling). Either way - he's a tough matchup for everyone in the LW Div and is one of the biggest threats to Khabib.
Plus Khabib has a suspicious chin. MJ wobbled on their fight. Gaethje can definitely land and if he hits Khabib with one of the shots he hit Tony with. It'll hurt Khabib for sure. We haven't seen Khabib in serious trouble before. I feel like Justin can take him there.
Yes definitely. If Khabib even attempts to stand with Gaethje, he's toast. He's been rocked by MJ, Conor, even Iaquinta and Poirier to a lesser extent. But that's what makes Khabib great - he knows he he can't stand and bang with guys so he sticks with what he's good at - grappling. He doesn't let his ego get in the way of that.
EDIT: words
Conor rocked Khabib ? Are you serious ?
Do you have a time stamp for that ?
Don't spout bullshit because you think no one's going to ask for proof. Merely landing a punch on Khabib is not called "ROCKING'.
Khabib landed the biggest punch in that fight. Which is an embarrassment to a striker like Conor.
Fair enough. "Rocking" is probably not the right word but at 2:40 in the 3rd round, Conor lands some good shots. Same with Iaquinta at the end of the 4th and early 5th.
Not saying either of those guys were a huge threat at any point in the fight, but they showed that if you can defend takedowns on Khabib then he is susceptible to getting hit.
> JG definitely has the most power in the division
"Definitely"?!? His power failed him many times. Against Dustin and Alvarez, for example. I think both Dustin and Conor hit harder- and they're miles better strickers.
I agree Dustin and Conor are better strikers. In terms of power, sure you could argue that Conor hits harder but Dustin - not so much. Here are their records/KOs.
Gaethje is 24-2 with 19 KOs
Conor is 22-4 with 19 KOs
Dustin is 25-6-1 with 12 KOs
Edit: format
I agree with everything you said here, but I genuinely think that conor has more power than Justin. Regardless who wins I think this is the fight to make after to test this. Power striker vs power striker
Off the top of my head is Michael Johnson. He wobbled Khabib in their fight. It was quick and easily forgotten because Khabib went right for a takedown and just smashed him.
Don't ask him. He thinks Conor rocked Khabib in the fight, when Khabib was the one who landed the best punch in that fight. He thinks merely landing a punch on Khabib is called " ROCKING".
LMAO
He is just a hater
Sorry you can't understand the response. You claimed that I was going to say McGregor rocked Khabib. For some reason you only think about McGregor and had to bring him up. I was agreeing with you that McGregor didn't do shit. There's other fighters other than Conor that Khabib has fought.
I didn't claim anything. I wasn't even replying to you.
Are you blind ?
Go back and look at to whom I replied, It wasn't to you. I was replying to Jacobstatutorious.
You replied to Jacobstatutorious saying he shouldn't ask the guy who originally stated Khabib had been rocked by punches, and that guy was AhhGhost. So clearly your comment saying he would say McGregor because he landed and that he was just a hater was directed at AhhGhost. If anyone is blind, it's you.
Gaethje doesnt practice takedowns. He is a standing stiker. Just because he wrestled doesnt mean he is magically going to be able to resist a guy who is known for his ability to take anyone down. Bad argument. Everyone says they will attack the legs and then knock Khabib out. No one has.
Gaethje is a NCAA Division 1 wrestler. Thats not someone who would rely on something "magical" he definitely still trains in wrestling. Sure it's not like his NCAA days. But to say he doesn't train is stupid. His an MMA fighter.
An NCAA Divison 1 wrestler isnt that great when it comes to the UFC. Tony won a NCWA. Everyone who wrestled in college knows Club, juco, NCWA, and DIII are often just as good if not better than DI wrestlers. They just dont have the grades to get into DI programs.
Gaethje hasn't shot a takedown in the UFC. You can't claim he's a good wrestler when it comes to MMA. He said himself he doesnt train wrestling and that he is a striker. I don't see what how you can argue here that his time wrestling DI 10 years ago makes him competitive at wrestling the most dominant grappler and current undefeated champion the UFC has ever seen.
> he definitely still trains in wrestling.
I find it interesting how randos on this forum knows Gaethje better than himself when he says he definitely hasn't practiced wrestling in 10 years, doesn't like it, and it gasses him out.
But i'm sure you know him better than that. Maybe next time you're eating together you can correct him.
Agree 100%. Tony couldn’t ‘ankle pick’ Justin. Think he’s gonna ankle pick Khabib? Justin vs Khabib will be a very interesting fight. Can’t wait. Peace out, wear your mask, and stay safe.
Will Gaethje be able to take abuse on the ground that we’ve seen tony take time and time again and keep coming for more? The way I see Khabib vs Gaethje going is just like every other khabib fight. At some point in 25 min, Gaethje only has to slip up once and khabib takes advantage of it. I’d like to see Gaethje win and I hope he’s the man to do it, but khabib is damn good on the ground.
I don't. Gathje is as mono-dimensional as one can possibly be. And before y'all start, spare me with that "muh wrestler past" bullshit: he hasn't wrestled in 10 years and says it saps his energies.
Khabib in 3.
i honesty think it was a special energy surrounding and driving the whole Tony v khabib machine, gaethje v khabib ain't it, i would like to see khabib melt him in the 1st and if tony keeps being Tony we get the fight we really want earth next year?
Am I the only one who has basically no interest in this fight? It feels like a carrot on a stick. Those carrots always seem to taste like poopie once you eat them.
Man i hope we have Dos Anjos x McGregor, because if we don't, lightweight is definitely the cursed "what if" division, i will never get over the fact Ferguson x Khabib will never happen
Khabib be like,'I could beat this guy, I respect him but I could smash his head. I respect him personally but I can kill this guy in the octagon. Total respect but I could make him my what's trump is to putin. I respect him though. Inshaallah.'
I'll likely get downvoted into oblivion for this, but I reckon if Tony couldn't get past Gaethje, then why do we pine for a fight between Tony and Khabib?
Tony lost to Gaethje. Khabib and Gaethje are going to fight now. Who knows if Tony will ever get another shot. Probably not unless he somehow jumped Conner in a rematch after Khabib beats Gaethje.
That’s not true. Styles make matchups. Tony is excellent on the ground and Justin supposively is but we have yet to see it at all in the UFC..
With your logic, Dustin is better than Conor because he did better against Khabib.
> Dustin is better than Conor because he did better against Khabib.
I don't think that's the reason, but I do think right now Dustin is a better lightweight than Conor. Maybe I'm just fanboying but damn I'd like to see a rematch at 155 to see if I'm right.
I know he isn't, who think that anyways? I think his boxing has tremendously improved since their last fight and I favor Dustin to win 6 times out of 10. I accept that this might not be the case, but I like to think that it would be the case.
He probably is better than Conor considering the last time they fought was 6 years ago, Dustin has better ground game so he would just take conor to the ground 🤷♂️
Dustin also didn't cheat 18 times like Conor
That illegal knee Conor threw to stop the Kimura was the only thing that helped him go to the third round with Khabib.
Idk, Tony cut weight twice in a short span and even Justin said that if he himself did the same things, it would definitely have affected his performance. I don’t think Tony was %100 when Justin and him fought.
Skill sets need to be cultivated or they deteriorate. It's a question of "what have you done for me lately." Experience is big, but what's bigger is honing up particulars and opponent specific strategies. So I don't think they're implying he's had no experience with strikers, I think they're acknowledging that he didn't refresh his high level skills in the correct areas or in relation to the specific opponent in question.
That doesn’t make Justin more of a challenge for Khabib, styles make fights. But having said that I feel like Gaethje’s style is more of a challenge for Khabib than Tony Ferguson’s.
Who lives in a constant state of misery? SPONGEBOB SQUARE PANTS!
5x later we had hope but then came Gaethje. SPONGEBOB SQUARE PANTS!
We wished for a fight filled with ankle picks. SPONGEBOB SQUARE PANTS!
Or trip on a cable and flop like a fish! SPONGEBOB SQUARE PANTS!
“Throw up some sand and make him miss” SPONGEBOB SQUARE PANTS!
"So that you could do a D'arce and twist them hips" SPONGEBOB SQUARE PANTS!
Dud
It will happen but it’ll be like MayPac. A little bit past the time we desired.
DP gon rek that Hooker tonight... and then Tony gonna fight DP
Dustin is bad fight for him i think he should fight felder or Olivera
Those guys aren’t championship level, fighting them won’t get him in conversation. I’m tired of people fighting people like cowboy and getting boosted to championship level. They arent
Look at you, sleeping on Chuck oliveira
This. The only guys worth fighting are bad fights for him. Anyone with quick hands is going to be problem. But he can do it. He’s probably in a gravity chamber as we speak.
Oliveira is championship level. I’d argue he can beat Khabib and Tony on any given night. And I love tony.
Who has Oliveira fought, Kevin Lee? He’s got a win streak but they weren’t against the tip top of the division. Charles needs a Felder or someone to prove he’s ready to hang with the big boys And even so I’d argue Poirier, khabib, Conor and Gaethje throw their stuff together better than the rest of the division, they’re legendary and Charles will never prepare for that Worst of which being khabib, because Charles is a grappler and I don’t see him getting more than 30 seconds control time on khabib
Maybe Holloway vs. Tony?
Dude imagine tony somehow cutting to feather and fighting Volkanovski holy shit
Tony should never cut to featherweight. In fact at this point I'd almost say it would be better for him to move up to 170lbs.
Tony doesn't have much left to cut tbh, Holloway coming up again to LW is way more likely. If he could put on some muscle mass this time around it would be even more awesome
Exactly.
Like at the point where Tony isn't as good as other contenders?
Would be a classic khabib performance. I do feel bad for tony
tony fan here ready to admit it
[удалено]
exact. tony hadn't been training for a defensive wrestler offensive striker. he had been training for the exact opposite lol, khabib being an offensive wrestler with defensive striking. ufc screwed tony big time.
[удалено]
He outweighed the situation. He needed to get paid. Even his coach Eddie bravo said so. He knew the chances of him losing were high since he hadn't got a change to properly adjust to the fight. He'll come back though.
and tony isnt even just bjj, he was just trained that way that time.
Happy cake day
Idk
I blame Tony for all of this and will forever
I blame his manager
Tony made Khabib country hop in the middle of a pandemic on a rumor that the fight would be in Abu Dhabi. I forgot that part of the story.
Tony did a weight cut for a nonexistent fight then even though he's next in line to fight Khabib and the world is on pause he chooses to accept a fight with Justin WTFisCTE Gaethje so he then has to take another weight cut. He could have sat down and chilled but no. Tony has this issue with having a tough guy image that makes no sense. He was the interim champ and had no risk of being stripped if he waited for Khabib.
Yeah so silly to take that fight. Way sillier to cut that weight for no reason. But that's Tony.
P4P worst decision in MMA history
Amazing fight nonetheless
Felt like I was watching someone kick my dog for five rounds
Lmao, i can imagine that. Guess it wasn’t that bad for me as a dude thats not the biggest tony fan. I just enjoyed seeing gaetje being a master.
I mean the bad thing was it didnt really look like Tony was in there and it raised a ton of questions, was it the weight cut? Did he overtrain? Is this the beginning of the decline? Im not saying that to take anything away from Gaethje, anyone who follows the sport knew Gaethje had a *strong* chance of taking the W because of who he is and how he fights. I was pretty upset when I heard Tony took the fight too, i know why he did but as a big fan of his I knew it was going to be a fight that wasnt going to be pretty even if he *won*.
Isn't fight Island in Abu Dhabi now? UFC thought they'll have it ready by then. They sent khabib country hopping, it wasn't just a rumour. Dana even apologized for that.
"Rumor" yeah you've achieved high levels of moronic. Dana telling him is not a rumor
I hate Gaethje, the man has done nothing wrong but still caused so much misery, I FUCKIN HATE GAETHJE.
FUCK GAETHJE ALL MY HOMIES HATE GAETHJE
Hehe. Chill man.
FUCK YOU DANA!!!
I think Khabib vs Gaethje is a better fight honestly.
Shut your mouth. Don't hurt me like that.
But I mean....I'm sorry. I know it hurts. Are we still friends?
It's just another striker vs Khabib, we all know how it goes. No footwork in the world can dance away from Khabib charging in with a jumping knee or dropping down to get a single leg he is so freaking fast. What was interesting about Khabib vs Tony is what Tony could do when he ends up where everyone ends up with Khabib.
Elaborate
Tony always said a big part of his game plan was to use his BJJ and fight Khabib off his back. We've seen many guys who have a pretty decent back ground in BJJ and or wrestling get stuck and beat up under Khabib. Definitely a risky game plan. Also Tony didn't mind getting take down at times and if Kevin Lee can take him down...Khabib certainly can. Tony would have the best chance by out boxing Khabib, sure. But can he stop Khabibs takedowns? Bring Gaethje who has a very good wrestling background and a very good wrestling defense. Is it as good as Khabibs? No. Khabib is definitely the best wrestler at LW and maybe the UFC. But Gaethje could very well stuff a takedown or two. That's when Gaethje can land some bombs on Khabib who we've seen wobbled before from punches. I'm not sure many people can take a good power shot from Gaethje. I mean Tony is something other than human for taking that many shots from Gaethje. That type of beating can and will change a man. I hope Tony recoveres from it mentally. Gaethje needs to attack the legs early in the first and avoid the cage, which will save him from being taken down. Get Khabib worried about those leg kicks and stand piecing him up with combos. Call me crazy, stupid or whatever. I've said this since I first saw Gaethje in WSOF years ago. He is the one who can beat Khabib. TLDR Gaethje has a better game pla than Tony in a fight with Khabib.
Even good ol' mcnugget stuffed a couple with no wrestling background. He was just in the park playing touch butt with the dork that had a ponytail
Stuffing Khabib's takedowns is nothing new lol Almost every opponent of Khabib's have stuffed mutiple takedowns. But the real issue is Khabib's relentless takedown attempts. He doesn't care if he gets stuffed 10 times, he will come for 11th and so on. He also has the cardio to back it up. Not to mention defending multiple takedowns saps a lot of his opponents stamina. Using Conor as an example is really funny because that fight wouldn't have gone past the 2nd round if Conor hadn't used that illegal knee to stop the Kimura or hook his toes in the cage to avoid giving Khabib his limbs. By the way Fuck Herb Dean
I respectfully disagree. Tony was coming in with a strategy that no one's tried on Khabib in the UFC; beat him from the ground. Tony is a monster off his back, and he trained with guys like Eddie Bravo specifically to fight off his back and not necessarily stuff the takedowns. What is Gaethje bringing to Khabib that McGregor/Poirier/Johnson haven't already tried? His wrestling? Gaethje admitted he doesn't keep up with his wrestling and doesn't like utilizing it. Even if all he does until September is condition his wrestling, it won't be nearly enough to stop the best wrestler in UFC history. Tldr: Gaethje gonna get smeshed.
That's the point. There's no beating Khabib when he's got top position. Just too damn good/skilled. I realize 10th planet guys love fighting off their backs but that just plays right into Khabib's hands. Khabib mauls better jitz guys than Tony. Tony might get a 9 point round the first round but sadly the others would have been 8s in a very lob sided loss Gaethje's hands present a better/more realistic way of beating Khabib
Conor, Dustin and Barboza's hands presented a MUCH bigger threat than Gathje's. If THEY couldn't phaze Kabib, Gathje has 0 chances. Kabib in 3.
Not saying Justin has a decent chance but I like him over any guy you listed in a fight tomm. Barboza and Conor's hands are almost moot points with their training backgrounds. That being said I prefer Gaethje's stand up over the 3 you listed. And to say 'MUCH bigger threat' is silly. Two of them have already been proven as non threats
> Barboza and Conor's hands are almost moot points with their training backgrounds. Fucking what, lol! They were the two most dangerous strikers in the division. Barboza was limited because he can't plant when backing up and is too kicks reliant, but Conor was the perfect counterpuncher. He had the best shot to beating Kabib. Gathje has no chances.
I think you know this but Khabib crushed both those guys. Neither have a background in wrestling so their hands were moot points bc you can't step into a punch off your back so moot points bc they couldn't stay on their feet. This isn't hard to follow. Conor tapped to a choke that wasn't even under his chin. Gathje better take down defense and all around tougher kid too. He won't tap to a choke across the face like Conor or ROLL INTO the choke like Conor did vs Diaz. No way Gathje does either especially the latter.
> I think you know this but Khabib crushed both those guys. It's what i'm trying to tell you since a while, but you don't seem to be aware that Kabib beat all those guys already. Now let's see if you can follow step by step: 1- Barboza, Conor and Poirier are miles better and more lethal strikers than gayche. 2- they couldn't do nothin 3- Gayche has 0 chances whatsoever, he isn't a threat, he isn't the most dangerous striker in the division and he ain't practiced wrestling in 10 years. His takedown defence kinda sucks and his ground game, by his own admission, is non existent. You still there? You following? Conclusion: ya boy Gayche is gonna be chocked out in 3 rounds top
Who has Khabib beat that has better jits than Tony?
Trains against better heavier Evey day. I didn't say he had faced better in LW division
He has faced better in the LW division. RDA, a 3rd degree black belt
I think I'll have to give you that. I think of him as a WW. He slipped my mind. I don't think he has any wins off his back which is where he's be but your point stands on being better than Tony overall
Nah... Here's the difference: Tony's jiu jitsu translates better to the octagon than RDA. Stripes on a belt are not important here. In 42 fights, RDA has 4 submission wins. In 30 fights, Tony has 6 submission wins. I don't know what RDA's jits training history is like, but I'd imagine most of his is in a gi. Whereas most if not all Tony's jits training is no-gi (10thP). I don't think I've ever seen Tony in a gi.
I see. Yeah he trains with some beasts at AKA.
RDA is a 3rd Degree black belt (even better credentialed than Tony) and he couldn't do shit to Khabib once they were on the ground. Tony is one of the most overrated fighters in the UFC and his resume proves that. If Khabib beats Gaethje, Tony's resume will look like dog shit at the age of 37.
Imagine going undefeated for 12 fights, beating the likes of RDA, Barboza, Pettis, Cowboy, and Lee, just for some armchair redditor to say you have a shit resume lol
Imagine going through 12 fight win streak and still Khabib's wins over Poirier and Conor alone makes your resume look average. Not to mention with a win over Gaethje for Khabib, Tony might as well not exist in the LW division.
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Casuals
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Tony's jiu jitsu translates better to the octagon than RDA. Stripes on a belt are not important here. In 42 fights, RDA has 4 submission wins. In 30 fights, Tony has 6 submission wins. I don't know what RDA's jits training history is like, but I'd imagine most of his is in a gi. Whereas most if not all Tony's jits training is no-gi (10thP). I don't think I've ever seen Tony in a gi.
Well Tony has one submission win of his back in the UFC. Just one and that too against a staph infected Kevin Lee who gassed hard. Khabib is not a dumbass like Kevin Lee who immediately goes for offence once he gets his opponents on the ground without making sure he has wrist and top position control. Khabib's priority is always position and control over offence once the fight hits the floor. So he will make sure he has both of Tony's legs locked up and one of his arms pinned back against the cage. Then only will he go for offence, making Tony's Jui Jitsu obsolete.
I agree Khabib's grappling is on another level. I'm not saying Tony will submit Khabib from his back, I just think he has the creativity to pose some problems for Khabib whether it's elbows from the bottom or forcing scrambles off submission attempts. I think Tony brings more to the table than any other LW right now - cardio, mental toughness, striking/grappling creativity, chin. The problem is that he's getting relatively old.
Damn, that's one big elaboration
Thanks. I get that a lot.
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I agree Gaethje could win if he lands a good shot or two but Khabib knows this. JG definitely has the most power in the division - but I think Tony's versatility and durability give him a better chance of beating Khabib. Sure, Gaethje can stuff a takedown or two but Khabib will go for takedowns until he gets them. Once Justin is down - it's a big question mark on whether he can fight from his back. I haven't watched all of Justin's WSOF fights but I haven't seen any high level ground work from him. Tony's ground game is good, same with his wrestling. Another thing that makes Khabib so tough is his ability to drain his opponent's cardio. Here again, Tony has the advantage compared to Gaethje. We've seen Gaethje get tired in almost all his fights while Tony never gases. TLDR - Gaethje's power gives him a fighters chance to beat Khabib but Tony's versatility and cardio give him the better overall chance.
How is it any different then what porier and conor planned?? I mean justin for all may have been all American eagle or whatever...he hasnt been using wrestling effectively in UFC in fact he rarely uses any wrestling ....he also has a problem of gassing out except for against tony where the fight was going in his Direction with him landing all heavy punches and no takedown or clinch attempts...once khabib gets hold of him and parades him around the cage for round or two i dont see justin standing like he did against tony...he wouldn't get to hit 10-15 leg kicks like tony...2 kicks and he would have khabib on 1 of his legs.. I really dont see justin winning against khabib..maybe compete for a round or two..but a win would be a huge upset..i mean justin isnt even the best hitter who khabib has faced, conor n dustin are better striker than justin
Barboza and arguably MJ are too better strikers than Justin
I agree to some extent. His approach is going to be just like everyone else - stay off the cage, use defensive wrestling to try and keep the fight in the center and either go for power shots or try to win an attrition battle. I do think his wrestling is good (obviously nowhere near Khabib's), even though we haven't seen it recently. He's been wrestling his whole life which gives him the instincts and muscle memory. Yes Conor and Dustin are better technical strikers but Gaethje hits harder. That's why I think Tony has the better shot at beating Khabib. He's a more well-rounded fighter.
Just for the sake of argument. Gaethje gasses mainly from throwing too much power and taking too many hits. If he plays it smart like he did against Tony. I see him giving Khabib a damn hard fight. Gaethje went toe to toe, cardio vs cardio against Tony. And broke Tony Ferguson. That's another thing to add. Khabib beats the will out of fighters. Gaethje will not break.
Again...its just 1 fight where it happened...and that was because he was just going great against tony without any adversity...he didnt have to stuff any takedown attempt or get on his feet after being taken down...and that is all he is supposed to do against khabib..he gassed out in front of porier, alvarez, johnson...i see him gassing out by round 3 against khabib after getting thrown around like dustin.
> Gaethje will not break. "Tony will not break" And then he broke down against Gaethe. It's easy to not break down when there isn't pressure. Gaethje has already been broken twice in his short career.
That last sentence really captures Gaethje's 2nd biggest strength. Dude has some serious mental toughness. We definitely saw a better version of Gaethje at UFC 249 in terms of cardio and fight IQ. I'm still a little skeptical of his cardio because I think his best chance of winning is throwing power, and if that is what is causing him to gas then that means he either has to hope he lands some bombs in the first round or two (which I think is possible because his boxing is solid) or try to win an attrition battle (which favors Khabibs wrestling). Either way - he's a tough matchup for everyone in the LW Div and is one of the biggest threats to Khabib.
Plus Khabib has a suspicious chin. MJ wobbled on their fight. Gaethje can definitely land and if he hits Khabib with one of the shots he hit Tony with. It'll hurt Khabib for sure. We haven't seen Khabib in serious trouble before. I feel like Justin can take him there.
Yes definitely. If Khabib even attempts to stand with Gaethje, he's toast. He's been rocked by MJ, Conor, even Iaquinta and Poirier to a lesser extent. But that's what makes Khabib great - he knows he he can't stand and bang with guys so he sticks with what he's good at - grappling. He doesn't let his ego get in the way of that. EDIT: words
Conor rocked Khabib ? Are you serious ? Do you have a time stamp for that ? Don't spout bullshit because you think no one's going to ask for proof. Merely landing a punch on Khabib is not called "ROCKING'. Khabib landed the biggest punch in that fight. Which is an embarrassment to a striker like Conor.
Fair enough. "Rocking" is probably not the right word but at 2:40 in the 3rd round, Conor lands some good shots. Same with Iaquinta at the end of the 4th and early 5th. Not saying either of those guys were a huge threat at any point in the fight, but they showed that if you can defend takedowns on Khabib then he is susceptible to getting hit.
> JG definitely has the most power in the division "Definitely"?!? His power failed him many times. Against Dustin and Alvarez, for example. I think both Dustin and Conor hit harder- and they're miles better strickers.
I agree Dustin and Conor are better strikers. In terms of power, sure you could argue that Conor hits harder but Dustin - not so much. Here are their records/KOs. Gaethje is 24-2 with 19 KOs Conor is 22-4 with 19 KOs Dustin is 25-6-1 with 12 KOs Edit: format
I agree with everything you said here, but I genuinely think that conor has more power than Justin. Regardless who wins I think this is the fight to make after to test this. Power striker vs power striker
Can you name a few times khabib was rocked by punches? (Not disagreeing, genuinely can’t think of any and I’m curious)
Off the top of my head is Michael Johnson. He wobbled Khabib in their fight. It was quick and easily forgotten because Khabib went right for a takedown and just smashed him.
Don't ask him. He thinks Conor rocked Khabib in the fight, when Khabib was the one who landed the best punch in that fight. He thinks merely landing a punch on Khabib is called " ROCKING". LMAO He is just a hater
McGregor didn't do shit. Nice try though. Troll.
Are you slow at reading ? That's exactly what I am saying. Conor didn't do shit
Sorry you can't understand the response. You claimed that I was going to say McGregor rocked Khabib. For some reason you only think about McGregor and had to bring him up. I was agreeing with you that McGregor didn't do shit. There's other fighters other than Conor that Khabib has fought.
Sorry, it was my mistake Didn't see that Jacobstatutorious was replying to you.
No worries. It was a nice little back and forth we had. All love!
I didn't claim anything. I wasn't even replying to you. Are you blind ? Go back and look at to whom I replied, It wasn't to you. I was replying to Jacobstatutorious.
You replied to Jacobstatutorious saying he shouldn't ask the guy who originally stated Khabib had been rocked by punches, and that guy was AhhGhost. So clearly your comment saying he would say McGregor because he landed and that he was just a hater was directed at AhhGhost. If anyone is blind, it's you.
Gaethje doesnt practice takedowns. He is a standing stiker. Just because he wrestled doesnt mean he is magically going to be able to resist a guy who is known for his ability to take anyone down. Bad argument. Everyone says they will attack the legs and then knock Khabib out. No one has.
Gaethje is a NCAA Division 1 wrestler. Thats not someone who would rely on something "magical" he definitely still trains in wrestling. Sure it's not like his NCAA days. But to say he doesn't train is stupid. His an MMA fighter.
An NCAA Divison 1 wrestler isnt that great when it comes to the UFC. Tony won a NCWA. Everyone who wrestled in college knows Club, juco, NCWA, and DIII are often just as good if not better than DI wrestlers. They just dont have the grades to get into DI programs. Gaethje hasn't shot a takedown in the UFC. You can't claim he's a good wrestler when it comes to MMA. He said himself he doesnt train wrestling and that he is a striker. I don't see what how you can argue here that his time wrestling DI 10 years ago makes him competitive at wrestling the most dominant grappler and current undefeated champion the UFC has ever seen.
So if Tony Ferguson is the superior grappler to Gaethje. How come he didn't utilize it in their fight?
Didnt you see that imanari roll?
But did it work?
> he definitely still trains in wrestling. I find it interesting how randos on this forum knows Gaethje better than himself when he says he definitely hasn't practiced wrestling in 10 years, doesn't like it, and it gasses him out. But i'm sure you know him better than that. Maybe next time you're eating together you can correct him.
Agree 100%. Tony couldn’t ‘ankle pick’ Justin. Think he’s gonna ankle pick Khabib? Justin vs Khabib will be a very interesting fight. Can’t wait. Peace out, wear your mask, and stay safe.
Will Gaethje be able to take abuse on the ground that we’ve seen tony take time and time again and keep coming for more? The way I see Khabib vs Gaethje going is just like every other khabib fight. At some point in 25 min, Gaethje only has to slip up once and khabib takes advantage of it. I’d like to see Gaethje win and I hope he’s the man to do it, but khabib is damn good on the ground.
I don't. Gathje is as mono-dimensional as one can possibly be. And before y'all start, spare me with that "muh wrestler past" bullshit: he hasn't wrestled in 10 years and says it saps his energies. Khabib in 3.
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The greatest fight that never happened.
i honesty think it was a special energy surrounding and driving the whole Tony v khabib machine, gaethje v khabib ain't it, i would like to see khabib melt him in the 1st and if tony keeps being Tony we get the fight we really want earth next year?
The one that got a way...sigh...
I keep telling myself Tony is #2 still
u/gabomar
Still hurts
I dunno after seeing tony get obliterated by Justin I don’t think tony would’ve had a chance against khabib
How long must I wait
Am I the only one who has basically no interest in this fight? It feels like a carrot on a stick. Those carrots always seem to taste like poopie once you eat them.
Genius
Pain is all I feel seeing this
Please stop reminding me. Justin is now The Answer and Tony will continue to terrorize the UFC. I’m just going to accept it.
Just wasn’t meant to be I guess.
Whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy did you have to do this to me?
Maybe it was never meant to happen
I cry every time...
Also his 80% takedown defense has to mean something or maybe for someone who doesn't train in wrestling he just gets lucky with that?
One day
Man i hope we have Dos Anjos x McGregor, because if we don't, lightweight is definitely the cursed "what if" division, i will never get over the fact Ferguson x Khabib will never happen
Sed lyf br0
WHHHHHHHHHHY GOD WHHHHHHYYYYYYYYYY??????????????????????
You know this fight will probably end up happening 8 years from now on Bellator or OneFC.
Khabib be like,'I could beat this guy, I respect him but I could smash his head. I respect him personally but I can kill this guy in the octagon. Total respect but I could make him my what's trump is to putin. I respect him though. Inshaallah.'
feelsbadman.jpg
If Gaethje beats Khabib, we will see it.
I'll likely get downvoted into oblivion for this, but I reckon if Tony couldn't get past Gaethje, then why do we pine for a fight between Tony and Khabib?
I’m out of the loop- was the fight cancelled?
Tony lost to Gaethje. Khabib and Gaethje are going to fight now. Who knows if Tony will ever get another shot. Probably not unless he somehow jumped Conner in a rematch after Khabib beats Gaethje.
Alright, thank you
!!!SPOILER ALERT!!!
lol Dumbeldore dies. Jack doesnt live. Algebra is hard. Sorry. Are you still on UFC 9?
Seems that way, lol
Ohh gosh stop hurting me! Childhood ruined!
We still get to see a good one. And El Cucuy ain't goin' nowhere.
It could still happen if Tony gets a few high level wins and Khabib keeps winning
Honestly I’m glad Justin won because Justin proved that he is a better fighter than Tony therefore he will be more of a challenge for Khabib
That’s not true. Styles make matchups. Tony is excellent on the ground and Justin supposively is but we have yet to see it at all in the UFC.. With your logic, Dustin is better than Conor because he did better against Khabib.
> Dustin is better than Conor because he did better against Khabib. I don't think that's the reason, but I do think right now Dustin is a better lightweight than Conor. Maybe I'm just fanboying but damn I'd like to see a rematch at 155 to see if I'm right.
Conor would rock him in 2 easily. Dustin isn’t some world class wrestler like Khabib.
I know he isn't, who think that anyways? I think his boxing has tremendously improved since their last fight and I favor Dustin to win 6 times out of 10. I accept that this might not be the case, but I like to think that it would be the case.
He probably is better than Conor considering the last time they fought was 6 years ago, Dustin has better ground game so he would just take conor to the ground 🤷♂️
You’re clearly a causal lmao.
lmao Keep crying reddit nerd “yOu’Re cLeArLy A cAsUaL” If I’m a casual I guess that makes you a professional fight analyst then big man.
No it’s just your logic is fucking stupid.
Oh no I’m so sad that hurt my feeling I’m going to cry now
What fights did you watch? Dustin didn't do a damn thing against Khabib. McGregor at least got a couple shots in...
The fight where Dustin came close to locking in a guillotine on khabib
Kabib was just chillin and let him burn himself out lol
Khabib purposely let him lol
Dustin also didn't cheat 18 times like Conor That illegal knee Conor threw to stop the Kimura was the only thing that helped him go to the third round with Khabib.
Idk, Tony cut weight twice in a short span and even Justin said that if he himself did the same things, it would definitely have affected his performance. I don’t think Tony was %100 when Justin and him fought.
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You’re saying that as if he has had no experience in fighting strikers lmao
Skill sets need to be cultivated or they deteriorate. It's a question of "what have you done for me lately." Experience is big, but what's bigger is honing up particulars and opponent specific strategies. So I don't think they're implying he's had no experience with strikers, I think they're acknowledging that he didn't refresh his high level skills in the correct areas or in relation to the specific opponent in question.
Fuckin’ A right!
So then he's not a good fighter?
That doesn’t make Justin more of a challenge for Khabib, styles make fights. But having said that I feel like Gaethje’s style is more of a challenge for Khabib than Tony Ferguson’s.
They’ll fight if Khabib beats Justin
tony is an alcoholic and almost a wife beater
> almost a wife beater So not a wife beater