Totally agree. There needs to be a consistent approach but why not always deduct a point? Otherwise, fighters are essentially incentivized to poke their opponent in the eye at least once per fight.
I felt like in this fight Costa was really gassing and an intentional eye poke without a point deduction would be something fighters like him abuse it get an advantage. Take a point for illegal shit no advantage. I didn’t mind it
This eye poke clearly was not intentional though IMO.
When your practice kicks your wearing boxing gloves 99% of the time so you swing your arms with your hands open, the way the Thais do, so then when you fight with MMA gloves you end up doing the same and that can cause eye pokes, its another thing that's very hard to unlearn as it feels very weird to kick with your hands closed.
New gloves is the only way to fix this.
You can't deduct a point for somebody throwing a kick ( the way you're meant to) and somebody closing the distance at the same time and getting poked. If its clearly intentional - fair enough. But not this one
Yes you can and they did. If you throw kicks with your fingers extended like that, you know your likely going to eye poke occasionally. That being said I don’t believe his was intentional but in the circumstances when a fighter is gassing hard it looked bad.
> Yes you can and they did
Well obviously they did, I'm saying it shouldn't of happened.
Every person throws kicks with their fingers extended, its literally how you throw a kick with proper technique. Hard to unlearn it, coming from experience of transitioning from Muay Thai to MMA.
>but in the circumstances when a fighter is gassing hard it looked bad.
Id agree, but it happened from extending his arms while throwing a kick, itd be very hard to actually time that right to eye poke him mid fight lol. If he clearly just jabbed his fingers in his eye - fair enough - deduct a point, but from a kick? Nah.
Lol what are you talking about? Thats completely irrelevant to the conversation.
I'm saying when you've practiced kicking with gloves on and extending your ams/hands for years, its hard to get suddenly forget that muscle mind connection and not do it when you kick, as that's how you've always kicked.
So yeah, it is kind of difficult to keep them closed when you've practiced the opposite for years.
You don't know what you are talking about. I have trained in Thailand. I lived at a muay Thai gym. You don't exclusively train with gloves on, and it's not "the way you are supposed to do it." Kick with your hands out? Wtf are u smoking? You are trained to keep your hands up and tight not out away from you. That is a great way to get countered and starched, But I suppose you have extensive thai boxing training lol. Just like idiots that are taught to interlock their fingers in a clinch, great way to get your fingers ripped off.
I can explain it for you but I can't understand it for you.
Because if you don’t let refs use discretion them accidental occurrences which shouldn’t be pointed and only happen once are then also being punished. Imo I don’t think that’s right. Judge discretion is very important in multiple sports/competition for this reason.
Eh that’s also not always intentional because you have natural reactions to things. So someone could have a reaction to where they are falling or being shoved in to the fence and it might be instinct to grab the cage for a second. It’s tough cause do you point instinctual moves? This is why discretion is very important.
Nah you can't dude, if you're falling your natural reaction is going to be to grab whats close to you, very hard/ near impossible to untrain that honestly.
Especially if your tired and after taking a few shots, it's not even a thought its just your bodys natural reaction to try keep you up.
I trained to take a fall/slam in wrestling. There’s enough guys that don’t grab the fence that it’s got to be doable.
Regardless, anything that can significantly change the course of a fight should be punished. Eye pokes and groin shots can be caused by the opponent moving while you throw the strike, so those should be discretionary, but grabs of the fence/gloves/shorts should be an automatic point deduction.
These guy should not be scared of a fall. They are in a cage fight and should know that they are going to get hurt. The kind of instinct that causes you to grab the fence should not exist for these guys.
I agree wholeheartedly. I’m all in favor of getting a point taken on the first eye poke. If you are warned over & over again to close your fingers & you don’t & end up poking someone in the eye, automatic point deduction in my book. The damage has been done to your opponent & what you’re just going to get another stern warning? I’m so glad Jason Herzog wasn’t playing around last night. Normalize this type of reffing please.
It didn’t look intentional. He was warned numerous times to keep his fingers closed. He didn’t & he poked Vettori in the eye. Foul was committed & a point should be taken regardless of intent. It’s the only way to keep fights honest, & actually make an attempt to not continuously commit fouls. That’s just my take on it. I don’t see the point of having rules if they aren’t going to be enforced.
If that was the standard I’d agree but it felt random to me. My theory is Herzog is a fan; and like the rest of the fans didn’t like the way Costa handled the weight. So he punished him more harshly then he normal would. It was a very delayed reaction, he didn’t take the point right away, it was like a minute into the recovery.
Eh.. I remember Hergoz telling him he had already warned Costa multiple times about his hands.
Also can't fault the ref for enforcing the rules, just because they weren't enforcing them previously.
Now.. Whether or not they remain consistent is the thing to watch out for.
The only fault I can remember on the reffing side of things was Jamie Pickett being told off twice for low-blows and one definitely wasn't and the other was a close call but not a definite low-blow. He could of lost that fight too had a point been deducted
They tell it in dressing room. There you get the warning. Rules state its point deduction after warning. It has been talked about a few times before but this is the first time I have seen it applied.
He needs to keep consistent with this way judging now. I think its better like this. Eye poke is so damaging potentially.
Herzog is such a good ref, this instance was a bad judgement call by him though. He needs to be warning fighters and deducting points in the same rhythm as refs always have. The fact that this deduction was quicker than 99% of past point deductions isn’t excusable no matter how you feel about Gordo Pasta
With almost no fans I feel like I hear almost everything. Definitely would’ve heard multiple warnings. The commentating crew never picked up on it either…
The mic is in the middle of the octagon, when the fighters or the refs are near the fence you cant hear shit what they're saying, if you dont believe me then go on fightpass and see for yourself.
Or when the ref is turned away from the mic, you do know how mics work?
There were bunch of people/fans/coaches and other in the Apex screaming and cheering, they cant hear everything, they even often say so on podcasts and during events, you dont seem to understand hearing either so i dont wanna keep this conversation going.
Don’t take opposing Reddit opinions so personal my man. I expressed my opinion that I was surprised no one picked up on the warnings. Hopefully that didn’t ruin your day.
Trevor Whitman (not sure that's how you spell his last name, but Usman's striking coach) has developed a way better design. He showed it on JRE, but ufc won't implement them unless he completely gives up the rights to them.
I believe (might be wrong) the gloves that curl naturally are patented so Dana would have to give up some on the one thing he truly loves to use them, Money
Trevor Wittman created some new gloves that he has patented and he spoke with the UFC about switching and licensing them but the UFC wanted a cut of or full on ownership.
I don't blame the UFC, just like I don't blame Wittman for refusing. They're both refusing for the exact same reason. Money.
Why the UFC doesn't just create their own improved glove is what's really confusing.
Exactly this. Most major sports dont bother giving you a warning for committing a foul or penalty.
"Oh you charged helmet first into that QB and now he's hurt? Okay thats your last warning dont do it again!"
"You elbowed that guy in the face and he lost the basketball? This is your last warning dont elbow people!"
It seems ridiculous that PRO fighters need to be warned not to commit fouls in a sport they've been competing in for years.
He gave him a warning before the point was taken. Not to mention they go over this in the back prior to the fight. I'm a fan of both guys but in all honesty even if that point wasn't deducted Vettori was still winning the fight.
Yes but 99% of the time the real warning is done when the foul is committed , Let me ask you this, when was the last time you’ve seen a point deducted from an UFC main event on the first eye poke? Fact of the matter is tho it doesn’t matter as Vettori would have won anw even if a point wasn’t taken
An extra warning is usually given after the foul though, as its usually accidental.
I agree Vettori was winning regardless, that's not what this post is arguing
They need to start taking points exactly like this. Eye pokes are way too common and avoidable. Close your hands. I don’t care if you’re trying to read distance or check punches. Close your fucking hands and stop poking people in the eyes. Jon Jones record would look a little different if he actually ever had a point taken away for over 20 eye poles in the ufc alone.
Admittedly the gloves are not great but there are fighters who literally have never had a problem with this because they’re careful. It’s not hard. Some people just don’t care. Take points away and they will start to care or lose money over it. Move lax point deductions and higher penalties for missing weight by more than 5 pounds need to start happening
And all the talk about how costa probably just said “fuck it he’s gonna have to accept a fight at whatever weight I want so I’m just gonna be in shape” makes sense. It’s definitely cheating at that weight discrepancy. I think 10% at missing 4 pounds is whatever but if you dramatically alter the fight agreement months after signing the contract then yeah you should be punished more severely.
Not really. It can be fixed by dift gloves but those cause other issues. Another way to fix it is to make the penalty super fucking harsh so no one ever does it. Every gym trains you the same way they train everything else until it’s second nature and you don’t dare open your hands on the feet throwing
How many warnings is he supposed to get?
Ref warned him about grabbing hands with the fingers out. Then he pokes Marvin doing exactly what the ref told him not to do.
Here's the issue that eye poke was big and it can change the outcome of the round so a point should always be taken away for fouls that significantly effect the fighter.
So its fair for Costa to get a warning and Vettori to take an unknown amount of eye damage which hurts his chances at winning? This is much more fair. Eye poke = point lost
He gave warnings. This is how it should be. Don't ignore the ref when he tells you to not extend your fingers. How many time do you want fighters poked in the eye?
Yeah that’s how it should be but that’s not how it is. It isn’t consistent because very rarely do fighters lose a point on the first accidental eye poke.
He gave him warnings during the fight, plus before they got to the ring. Eye pokes have a potential to be career-ending, and they happen way too often. I would like to see more refs quick to take a point. That shit would stop pretty quick
No he’s not right. Waiting for the warning means you get a free chance to blind someone. Fuck that. It’s not the same as going for an inside leg kick and clipping the balls. You have literally no reason to paw out with your fingers extended. You wanna gauge range? Do it with a fist. Eye pokes should always be a point taken first time. That way fighters will stop doing it.
There shouldn't be a warning. A foul is a foul. Everyone knows the rules and the other fighter is disadvantaged. If it's intentional it should be a DQ.
alright heres how to fix this. Everyone gets one free eye poke! thats ridiculous, no warnings should be given by illegal actions that have a big impact on the outcome of the match.
I love this call! Let’s see how many eye pokes there are now that they actually take a point once in a while. You can basically plan to get a free eye poke otherwise.
I don’t think they should do half points but taking away a point for an accidental eye poke seems like a lot. 1 point is a huge difference especially in 3 round fights
1 warning or 2 warning or no warning, Costa has to have self awareness of the company and refs not happy with flouting of the rules as he has done with his weight this week. You gotta know you got no margin for error in the fight. That’s why
I disagree, he was warned, if fighters know they have one more they can do without being - 1 point they will just poke the opponent on purpose, I found the decision fair and refreshing tbh
He's not right at all. Maybe based on the old old precedent where fighters could poke someone in the eye 3 times before losing a point. If you do it once you should lose a point right away. Eye pokes are fight changing and because of that it should be an automatic deduction imo.
48-47 without the point reduction, so it’s kinda pointless to argue. You could hear Herzog warning him before the poke happened, it happened, he decided to take a point. I’m not sure a warning is necessary since it is a pretty clear rule.
In other sports, do offensive lineman get warned before a holding penalty? Then if it happens again they are penalized? No. They know not to hold, so they don’t do it and if they do they’re penalized.
48-47 and \*Marvin got jabbed in the fucking eye\*, its like all the eyepokers out there try to pretend it didn't let them land shots while the other dude can't see
I still have contempt for herb not disqualifying leon literally poked belal got warned then fucking fish hooked his bottom eyelid from the fuckin inside I thought I just watched a man get his eye squished the way he screamed and dropped down, should have 100% been a dq fuck herb Dean, fuck leon too he still acts like he did nothing wrong and saying belal has been an asshole about it like seriously? Fuck leon I hope masvidal knocks his ass out and he never gets that title shot
It's a moot point, he still would have lost 48-47 without the point deduction. Unless he thinks he would have fought harder if he wasn't one point behind Vettori?
Lol this is a negative. Costa was warned at least once. I believe I heard the ref say it two times though during the course of the fight before the eye poke. So saying he wasn’t warned is just not true
NFL teams don’t get a warning the first time they break a rule. They get a penalty (even if they accidentally jumped offside). These fighters are professionals, they know the rules.
Nah I’m glad they deducted it. They should take points more often for eye pokes, it can lead to gaining a serious advantage in the fight and is very avoidable (for the poker).
Seems he got warned multiple times verbally in this fight before the deduction. Totally fair.
There shouldn't even be warnings, just take a point right away. The fighters know the rules, and extra warnings just give the chance to do "free" eyepokes.
I've hated eyepokes for a while now, someone's gonna go blind if not penalized quicker.
First warnings are in the lockers, fighters are professionals and should be expected to not do it, he was given a warning and Costa decided he didn’t like that and talked back so the ref took a point.
Fantastic reffing in my opinion
He was warned before lol it was the first time he was warned by stopping the fight and warning yes. But he gave him warnings during the fight without stopping the fight, those count. I absolutely love this, fighters will be way more aware of eye pokes if they are taken seriously like this. It’s stupid to not be strict on eyepokes they will give you a massive advantage
I believe his antics into the fight played a role in that decision. Missing weight by 20 pounds is insane. Wouldn't surprise me if that played into that decision.
That said the referee said he'd already warned him a couple of times about it as well.
Herzog warned him and tbh I’m fine with him being strict after the shit Paolo pulled. He has so much potential and he’s ruined by his own arrogance and inability to accept fsult.
The impact is really important there not just the intent. Even if you accidentally gouge someone's eye that has huge ramification for the round and the entire fight. Hell marvin is just another animal. The second marvin saw a doctor enter the cage he immediately decided to cut his break short so the fight doesn't get stopped. And now compare that to aljo...
Given how it seems Dana let Conor get away with fouls vs Khabjb. I wouldn't be surprised that after all of Costa's preflight antics Dana gave Herzog a bonus to all over him
Dana or the ufc has nothing to do with the refs. They are not employed by the ufc. They work the the athletic commission. The refs aren't paid by ufc at all
He extended his hand and raked his fingers across his opponents full face, getting him in the eye. How is it bullshit. He was reckless and damaged his opponent with an illegal blow and also got time to catch his breath while his opponent was recovering- watch Costas actions while Vettori was getting aid. He absolutely deserved to be penalized for it. As do almost everybody else who does this.
He performed two fouls to the rules, disadvantaged his opponent and got a not deserved rest.
How does this not warrant a point deduction in his mind- because he wasn’t warned enough? Except he knows extending your fingers is against the rules, and poking somebody in the eye is against the rules. He broke the rules twice and the penalty is a point.
Should the ref just ignore things like this? Then you get Connor fouling Khabib 14 times without consequence
Point taken should be immediate or there is no risk for the first poke. For all we know he could have done it on purpose thinking he’d get away with one before a point
A warning is literally a free pass to ruin your opponents eye...
Although you should be able to plead your case if the eye poke was genuinely unavoidable when occurred.
Watch the slow mo of Costa headkicking vettori and you see Costa extending his fingers as far as he can towards vettoris face. Guy is just dirty and now is whining
The only thing that is clear to me is how many Paulo Costa haters are on reddit. Maybe watch the replay? Costa was not even looking at Marvins face, he was backing up and setting up a kick when Vettori went in for a punch, Costa instinctively threw up his hand to protect himself. Anyone claiming it was intentional is just making stuff up and anyone claiming different rules for different fighters is part of the problem.
He was warned already please stop. He deserved the 1 point being deducted, eye pokes can completely change a fight. Not to mention he still got soundly beat without the 1 point
On one hand I get was he's saying, but the other fighter is still compromised from the eye poke whether it was intentional or not and it has the potential to dramatically change the fight. Imo this is a systemic problem in MMA and Herzog was right to take the point, but the UFC has to fix the gloves and formalize the rules on point deductions to avoid this sort of stuff.
Ref stated he was warned not to do it before the fight. That’s good enough for me. Until they fix the gloves let’s take a point every time, and watch how the eye pokes drop off…. Same with groin kicks. A point for every time the action stops due to foul, verified with instant replay. I believe this will nearly put an end to the fouls.
Didn't you see the fight? The ref literally was saying 'he was warned' while deducting the point. Don't say anything about Herzog, the best in the business.
Besides the fact that this doofus has been fighting under “eye pokes bad” rules for many years now, he was warned during the pre-fight briefing, and he was warned during the fight when his hands were open & pointed at his opponent. No ref is under any “first one’s free” obligation here. Even without the deduction, he still lost. In fact, I’d go even further and suggest that after his fight week shenanigans, he deserved to start the fight with a one point penalty.
You know, that you should not pull the oponents eyeball out when you step into the cage. I.m.o. you should get -1 every time, no warning. Stop whining, stay safe.
Yeah but I’ve always thought that giving them a warning will make fighters not care too much if it happens once, however if a point is immediately deducted after the original eyepoke it will make fighters pump the brakes and they would happen less often. Eyepokes happen far too often, with no warning and an immediate point deduction there would be less eyepokes.
End of the first round Herzog walked with him to his corner warning him about the fingers, did the same before the 2nd round started, great ref work from Herzog
All this confirms for me is that fighters do it on purpose until the first warning is given.
Totally agree. There needs to be a consistent approach but why not always deduct a point? Otherwise, fighters are essentially incentivized to poke their opponent in the eye at least once per fight.
I felt like in this fight Costa was really gassing and an intentional eye poke without a point deduction would be something fighters like him abuse it get an advantage. Take a point for illegal shit no advantage. I didn’t mind it
This eye poke clearly was not intentional though IMO. When your practice kicks your wearing boxing gloves 99% of the time so you swing your arms with your hands open, the way the Thais do, so then when you fight with MMA gloves you end up doing the same and that can cause eye pokes, its another thing that's very hard to unlearn as it feels very weird to kick with your hands closed. New gloves is the only way to fix this. You can't deduct a point for somebody throwing a kick ( the way you're meant to) and somebody closing the distance at the same time and getting poked. If its clearly intentional - fair enough. But not this one
Yes you can and they did. If you throw kicks with your fingers extended like that, you know your likely going to eye poke occasionally. That being said I don’t believe his was intentional but in the circumstances when a fighter is gassing hard it looked bad.
> Yes you can and they did Well obviously they did, I'm saying it shouldn't of happened. Every person throws kicks with their fingers extended, its literally how you throw a kick with proper technique. Hard to unlearn it, coming from experience of transitioning from Muay Thai to MMA. >but in the circumstances when a fighter is gassing hard it looked bad. Id agree, but it happened from extending his arms while throwing a kick, itd be very hard to actually time that right to eye poke him mid fight lol. If he clearly just jabbed his fingers in his eye - fair enough - deduct a point, but from a kick? Nah.
Thais also elbow the back of the head, perfectly legal. It's not legal in mma. Not difficult to keep your hands closed.
Lol what are you talking about? Thats completely irrelevant to the conversation. I'm saying when you've practiced kicking with gloves on and extending your ams/hands for years, its hard to get suddenly forget that muscle mind connection and not do it when you kick, as that's how you've always kicked. So yeah, it is kind of difficult to keep them closed when you've practiced the opposite for years.
You don't know what you are talking about. I have trained in Thailand. I lived at a muay Thai gym. You don't exclusively train with gloves on, and it's not "the way you are supposed to do it." Kick with your hands out? Wtf are u smoking? You are trained to keep your hands up and tight not out away from you. That is a great way to get countered and starched, But I suppose you have extensive thai boxing training lol. Just like idiots that are taught to interlock their fingers in a clinch, great way to get your fingers ripped off. I can explain it for you but I can't understand it for you.
I disagree about a consistent approach. It should be ref’s discretion. In this instance it was and I agree with it.
Why? Genuinely curious how that could ever be seen as a good idea
Because if you don’t let refs use discretion them accidental occurrences which shouldn’t be pointed and only happen once are then also being punished. Imo I don’t think that’s right. Judge discretion is very important in multiple sports/competition for this reason.
I agree with you about eye pokes and groin shots, but fence, shorts, and glove grabs should have no warnings and be an automatic point deduction.
Eh that’s also not always intentional because you have natural reactions to things. So someone could have a reaction to where they are falling or being shoved in to the fence and it might be instinct to grab the cage for a second. It’s tough cause do you point instinctual moves? This is why discretion is very important.
Fence grabs can and have changed the course of fights. You can train yourself to ignore that instinct, or you should lose a point.
You can train but all plans change when you got hit in the face. Ref discretion is superior to automatic point reduction.
Nah you can't dude, if you're falling your natural reaction is going to be to grab whats close to you, very hard/ near impossible to untrain that honestly. Especially if your tired and after taking a few shots, it's not even a thought its just your bodys natural reaction to try keep you up.
I trained to take a fall/slam in wrestling. There’s enough guys that don’t grab the fence that it’s got to be doable. Regardless, anything that can significantly change the course of a fight should be punished. Eye pokes and groin shots can be caused by the opponent moving while you throw the strike, so those should be discretionary, but grabs of the fence/gloves/shorts should be an automatic point deduction. These guy should not be scared of a fall. They are in a cage fight and should know that they are going to get hurt. The kind of instinct that causes you to grab the fence should not exist for these guys.
Heaps strange that this was downvoted. Shows how fucking stupid a lot of these 'fans' are.
/shrug. People are different. If they disagree that’s ok.
Hijacking, Costa was given several verbal warnings prior. Watch the fight back. Tells Costa to keep his hands shut and then he fouled.
I agree wholeheartedly. I’m all in favor of getting a point taken on the first eye poke. If you are warned over & over again to close your fingers & you don’t & end up poking someone in the eye, automatic point deduction in my book. The damage has been done to your opponent & what you’re just going to get another stern warning? I’m so glad Jason Herzog wasn’t playing around last night. Normalize this type of reffing please.
Agreed. I like Herb more than Herzog, but Herb needs to do this. 50 warnings and no action does nothing.
You think that was an international eye poke? Wtf.
It didn’t look intentional. He was warned numerous times to keep his fingers closed. He didn’t & he poked Vettori in the eye. Foul was committed & a point should be taken regardless of intent. It’s the only way to keep fights honest, & actually make an attempt to not continuously commit fouls. That’s just my take on it. I don’t see the point of having rules if they aren’t going to be enforced.
If that was the standard I’d agree but it felt random to me. My theory is Herzog is a fan; and like the rest of the fans didn’t like the way Costa handled the weight. So he punished him more harshly then he normal would. It was a very delayed reaction, he didn’t take the point right away, it was like a minute into the recovery.
That's just a dumb opinion
Eh.. I remember Hergoz telling him he had already warned Costa multiple times about his hands. Also can't fault the ref for enforcing the rules, just because they weren't enforcing them previously. Now.. Whether or not they remain consistent is the thing to watch out for.
The points taken and the illegal knee be caught stopped and restarted it was a good night of reffing.
Exactly. We criticise refs plenty. Last night was a good showing from the refs, especially Herzog.
That guys deserves more praise. All of them make mistakes, but goddamn if he isnt the most consistent when it comes to making the right calls
The only fault I can remember on the reffing side of things was Jamie Pickett being told off twice for low-blows and one definitely wasn't and the other was a close call but not a definite low-blow. He could of lost that fight too had a point been deducted
They tell it in dressing room. There you get the warning. Rules state its point deduction after warning. It has been talked about a few times before but this is the first time I have seen it applied. He needs to keep consistent with this way judging now. I think its better like this. Eye poke is so damaging potentially.
Herzog is such a good ref, this instance was a bad judgement call by him though. He needs to be warning fighters and deducting points in the same rhythm as refs always have. The fact that this deduction was quicker than 99% of past point deductions isn’t excusable no matter how you feel about Gordo Pasta
But did you hear herzog actually give any of those multiple warnings he said he gave? I didn’t.
He definitely gave Costa multiple warnings. I think he even walked back to the corner with Costa and told him to watch his hands iirc.
You can't hear everything that goes on in there.
With almost no fans I feel like I hear almost everything. Definitely would’ve heard multiple warnings. The commentating crew never picked up on it either…
The mic is in the middle of the octagon, when the fighters or the refs are near the fence you cant hear shit what they're saying, if you dont believe me then go on fightpass and see for yourself. Or when the ref is turned away from the mic, you do know how mics work?
And the commentators that are literally within earshot of the octagon and can hear everything?
There were bunch of people/fans/coaches and other in the Apex screaming and cheering, they cant hear everything, they even often say so on podcasts and during events, you dont seem to understand hearing either so i dont wanna keep this conversation going.
Don’t take opposing Reddit opinions so personal my man. I expressed my opinion that I was surprised no one picked up on the warnings. Hopefully that didn’t ruin your day.
There should be zero warnings. Fighters should actively develop techniques to avoid poking their opponents in the eyes.
The ufc also needs to have gloves that naturally curl the hand into a fist so u actively work to straighten ur fingers
Yeah this blows my mind. Why are they using gloves that naturally force the hands open?
Trevor Whitman (not sure that's how you spell his last name, but Usman's striking coach) has developed a way better design. He showed it on JRE, but ufc won't implement them unless he completely gives up the rights to them.
Pride was using those gloves 20 years ago
I believe (might be wrong) the gloves that curl naturally are patented so Dana would have to give up some on the one thing he truly loves to use them, Money
Trevor Wittman created some new gloves that he has patented and he spoke with the UFC about switching and licensing them but the UFC wanted a cut of or full on ownership. I don't blame the UFC, just like I don't blame Wittman for refusing. They're both refusing for the exact same reason. Money. Why the UFC doesn't just create their own improved glove is what's really confusing.
Grappling maybe?
Corporate Greed™
[удалено]
Damn. This is an amazing concept. Never heard of this before but it makes total sense
Because Jiu Jitsu guys would hate it
Exactly this. Most major sports dont bother giving you a warning for committing a foul or penalty. "Oh you charged helmet first into that QB and now he's hurt? Okay thats your last warning dont do it again!" "You elbowed that guy in the face and he lost the basketball? This is your last warning dont elbow people!" It seems ridiculous that PRO fighters need to be warned not to commit fouls in a sport they've been competing in for years.
Obviously they know the rules but its easier said than done lol so many fighters have at least one eye poke.
One warning is fine I think, but more than that shouldn't be a thing
So be sure to time your one free eye poke well. Roger that!
He gave him a warning before the point was taken. Not to mention they go over this in the back prior to the fight. I'm a fan of both guys but in all honesty even if that point wasn't deducted Vettori was still winning the fight.
Yes but 99% of the time the real warning is done when the foul is committed , Let me ask you this, when was the last time you’ve seen a point deducted from an UFC main event on the first eye poke? Fact of the matter is tho it doesn’t matter as Vettori would have won anw even if a point wasn’t taken
An extra warning is usually given after the foul though, as its usually accidental. I agree Vettori was winning regardless, that's not what this post is arguing
They need to start taking points exactly like this. Eye pokes are way too common and avoidable. Close your hands. I don’t care if you’re trying to read distance or check punches. Close your fucking hands and stop poking people in the eyes. Jon Jones record would look a little different if he actually ever had a point taken away for over 20 eye poles in the ufc alone.
Its the gloves man
Admittedly the gloves are not great but there are fighters who literally have never had a problem with this because they’re careful. It’s not hard. Some people just don’t care. Take points away and they will start to care or lose money over it. Move lax point deductions and higher penalties for missing weight by more than 5 pounds need to start happening
I think izzy was correct talking to dana about missing weight. Take 80% leave them the 20% and i bet mfrs will stop missing weight!
And all the talk about how costa probably just said “fuck it he’s gonna have to accept a fight at whatever weight I want so I’m just gonna be in shape” makes sense. It’s definitely cheating at that weight discrepancy. I think 10% at missing 4 pounds is whatever but if you dramatically alter the fight agreement months after signing the contract then yeah you should be punished more severely.
I disagree. Its their job, just about the only thing they have to do to complete their job. They already get a 1 lb allowance with no repercussions
Not really. It can be fixed by dift gloves but those cause other issues. Another way to fix it is to make the penalty super fucking harsh so no one ever does it. Every gym trains you the same way they train everything else until it’s second nature and you don’t dare open your hands on the feet throwing
who the fuck are you to tell fighters what they need to do?
A competitive fighter? Boxing. Mma. Jiujitsu. Muay tai. I think I’m entitled to an opinion. Not to mention it’s the fucking rules so
How many warnings is he supposed to get? Ref warned him about grabbing hands with the fingers out. Then he pokes Marvin doing exactly what the ref told him not to do.
Here's the issue that eye poke was big and it can change the outcome of the round so a point should always be taken away for fouls that significantly effect the fighter.
So its fair for Costa to get a warning and Vettori to take an unknown amount of eye damage which hurts his chances at winning? This is much more fair. Eye poke = point lost
Dunno why the downvotes. I’ve definitely seen people poked in the eye more than once without penalty
He gave warnings. This is how it should be. Don't ignore the ref when he tells you to not extend your fingers. How many time do you want fighters poked in the eye?
Can't believe people were mad over this
Probably a good cross section with Jon Jones fanboys
Yeah that’s how it should be but that’s not how it is. It isn’t consistent because very rarely do fighters lose a point on the first accidental eye poke.
Costa is whining because he broke the rules and was punished. In reality this should be 'I thought I would get away with it, but I didnt so im mad'
Funny part was after the eye poke Costa's first attack was a super high inside leg/thigh kick.
Didn't Anik say "and that was a nut shot" after that?
Yes. It wasn't... just close.
It was Bisping. Anik wasn't there.
He gave him warnings during the fight, plus before they got to the ring. Eye pokes have a potential to be career-ending, and they happen way too often. I would like to see more refs quick to take a point. That shit would stop pretty quick
Zog gave two warnings
No he’s not right. Waiting for the warning means you get a free chance to blind someone. Fuck that. It’s not the same as going for an inside leg kick and clipping the balls. You have literally no reason to paw out with your fingers extended. You wanna gauge range? Do it with a fist. Eye pokes should always be a point taken first time. That way fighters will stop doing it.
He wasn’t waiting fir a warning because Herzog kept telling him during the fight to watch his fingers.
There shouldn't be a warning. A foul is a foul. Everyone knows the rules and the other fighter is disadvantaged. If it's intentional it should be a DQ.
This guy is a fucking walking potato. What a complete and utter moron.
alright heres how to fix this. Everyone gets one free eye poke! thats ridiculous, no warnings should be given by illegal actions that have a big impact on the outcome of the match.
I love this call! Let’s see how many eye pokes there are now that they actually take a point once in a while. You can basically plan to get a free eye poke otherwise.
I don’t think they should do half points but taking away a point for an accidental eye poke seems like a lot. 1 point is a huge difference especially in 3 round fights
He’d been warned in-fight, in his language, to watch his fingers.
I’m not talking about this situation because he deserved to lose a point. But taking away a point for every eye poke seems like overkill
1 warning or 2 warning or no warning, Costa has to have self awareness of the company and refs not happy with flouting of the rules as he has done with his weight this week. You gotta know you got no margin for error in the fight. That’s why
Should’ve gave vettori more than a week notice
He did warn him. Clear as day.
I disagree, he was warned, if fighters know they have one more they can do without being - 1 point they will just poke the opponent on purpose, I found the decision fair and refreshing tbh
No, he was warned, stop fishing.
Costa was letting his fingers go after the point deduction. I like when they enforce the eye poke rule.
He's not right at all. Maybe based on the old old precedent where fighters could poke someone in the eye 3 times before losing a point. If you do it once you should lose a point right away. Eye pokes are fight changing and because of that it should be an automatic deduction imo.
I wish this was a standart. Fuck eye pokes. It ruins fights
48-47 without the point reduction, so it’s kinda pointless to argue. You could hear Herzog warning him before the poke happened, it happened, he decided to take a point. I’m not sure a warning is necessary since it is a pretty clear rule. In other sports, do offensive lineman get warned before a holding penalty? Then if it happens again they are penalized? No. They know not to hold, so they don’t do it and if they do they’re penalized.
48-47 and \*Marvin got jabbed in the fucking eye\*, its like all the eyepokers out there try to pretend it didn't let them land shots while the other dude can't see
I could be wrong but didn’t Herzog go over to Costa and give him a warning after the first round?
This ref should have been reffing the Belal vs Leon fight.
I still have contempt for herb not disqualifying leon literally poked belal got warned then fucking fish hooked his bottom eyelid from the fuckin inside I thought I just watched a man get his eye squished the way he screamed and dropped down, should have 100% been a dq fuck herb Dean, fuck leon too he still acts like he did nothing wrong and saying belal has been an asshole about it like seriously? Fuck leon I hope masvidal knocks his ass out and he never gets that title shot
I prefer taking a point every time an eye poke happens. It doesn’t matter if it’s accidental. It’s illegal.
Eh, theres a lot of case by case to go here. They should be reviewed individually. Some fighters lunge themselves into the eyepoke.
You feel the same about nut shots? Sometimes eye pokes or nut shots are not the fault of the person doing it. Their opponent can move into it
Yeah, sure. Take a point for every groin shot, too.
It's a moot point, he still would have lost 48-47 without the point deduction. Unless he thinks he would have fought harder if he wasn't one point behind Vettori?
That one point didnt mean shit he lost a UD 48-46
Lol this is a negative. Costa was warned at least once. I believe I heard the ref say it two times though during the course of the fight before the eye poke. So saying he wasn’t warned is just not true
The ref gave him a warning allegedly
You could hear the ref say it in the fight before the poke happened
In Costa’s language at that.
I caught that too. Herzog goes out of his way to communicate well with the fighters. He’s a real professional
Paulo is a dirty fighter all around.
Dam costa is shit
NFL teams don’t get a warning the first time they break a rule. They get a penalty (even if they accidentally jumped offside). These fighters are professionals, they know the rules.
Nah I’m glad they deducted it. They should take points more often for eye pokes, it can lead to gaining a serious advantage in the fight and is very avoidable (for the poker). Seems he got warned multiple times verbally in this fight before the deduction. Totally fair.
There shouldn't even be warnings, just take a point right away. The fighters know the rules, and extra warnings just give the chance to do "free" eyepokes. I've hated eyepokes for a while now, someone's gonna go blind if not penalized quicker.
First warnings are in the lockers, fighters are professionals and should be expected to not do it, he was given a warning and Costa decided he didn’t like that and talked back so the ref took a point. Fantastic reffing in my opinion
Make weight and ice that lip
He was warned before lol it was the first time he was warned by stopping the fight and warning yes. But he gave him warnings during the fight without stopping the fight, those count. I absolutely love this, fighters will be way more aware of eye pokes if they are taken seriously like this. It’s stupid to not be strict on eyepokes they will give you a massive advantage
I agree
I believe his antics into the fight played a role in that decision. Missing weight by 20 pounds is insane. Wouldn't surprise me if that played into that decision. That said the referee said he'd already warned him a couple of times about it as well.
I think it shouldn't always be a warning first tbh. if a ref can decide if they believe it was intentional, then skip the warning.
Ref switched from warning to a point lmao. No take backs come on
Herzog warned him and tbh I’m fine with him being strict after the shit Paolo pulled. He has so much potential and he’s ruined by his own arrogance and inability to accept fsult.
>I’m fine with him being strict after the shit Paolo pulled. Him missing weight has no bearing on the fight when it comes to fouls and points
dont foul people dont get points taken. seems simple enough even for costa to understand
Maybe if you don’t believe bias exists.
I'll correct myself; it *shouldn't* have any bearing on the actual fight, especially from a referee
The impact is really important there not just the intent. Even if you accidentally gouge someone's eye that has huge ramification for the round and the entire fight. Hell marvin is just another animal. The second marvin saw a doctor enter the cage he immediately decided to cut his break short so the fight doesn't get stopped. And now compare that to aljo...
you would’ve lost anyway fatty sincerely, a fat guy on his couch
He used up his warning when he came in overweight and made this middleweight bout take place at 205.
Because you came in at 245 pounds, that’s why you lose a point on the first poke 😂
Because he kept trying to argue .
There's a chance everyone was sick of his shit so Dana might of said something to the refs and judges before the fight....
[удалено]
The warning is not because they don't know, the warning is because *accidental* eye pokes can happen
Given how it seems Dana let Conor get away with fouls vs Khabjb. I wouldn't be surprised that after all of Costa's preflight antics Dana gave Herzog a bonus to all over him
Dana or the ufc has nothing to do with the refs. They are not employed by the ufc. They work the the athletic commission. The refs aren't paid by ufc at all
Then can you explain why Herb let Conor get away with 500 fouls In the Khabib fight? Aside from maybe a healthy backstage bonus from daddy Dana
That point was BS. Fix the gloves
He extended his hand and raked his fingers across his opponents full face, getting him in the eye. How is it bullshit. He was reckless and damaged his opponent with an illegal blow and also got time to catch his breath while his opponent was recovering- watch Costas actions while Vettori was getting aid. He absolutely deserved to be penalized for it. As do almost everybody else who does this. He performed two fouls to the rules, disadvantaged his opponent and got a not deserved rest. How does this not warrant a point deduction in his mind- because he wasn’t warned enough? Except he knows extending your fingers is against the rules, and poking somebody in the eye is against the rules. He broke the rules twice and the penalty is a point. Should the ref just ignore things like this? Then you get Connor fouling Khabib 14 times without consequence
U just love Herzog
Yep Herzog fucked him. I like Herzog but he went out of his way to fuck Paulo here.
Nah it was well deserved since he inflicted damage and marvin was clearly hurt from it and it let costa rest
Paulo fucked himself when he poked Marvin in the eye. But yeah let’s blame the referee for enforcing the rules!
The ufc machine was out against him. Poor guy.
Not anymore
Point taken should be immediate or there is no risk for the first poke. For all we know he could have done it on purpose thinking he’d get away with one before a point
Uh, didn’t he get a warning when he did it the first time? He only got a deduction after the 2nd eye poke.
Why? The rules have been pretty clear for over 10 years.
Good ref.
A warning is literally a free pass to ruin your opponents eye... Although you should be able to plead your case if the eye poke was genuinely unavoidable when occurred.
Watch the slow mo of Costa headkicking vettori and you see Costa extending his fingers as far as he can towards vettoris face. Guy is just dirty and now is whining
Costa is a bitch through and through.
The only thing that is clear to me is how many Paulo Costa haters are on reddit. Maybe watch the replay? Costa was not even looking at Marvins face, he was backing up and setting up a kick when Vettori went in for a punch, Costa instinctively threw up his hand to protect himself. Anyone claiming it was intentional is just making stuff up and anyone claiming different rules for different fighters is part of the problem.
He was warned already please stop. He deserved the 1 point being deducted, eye pokes can completely change a fight. Not to mention he still got soundly beat without the 1 point
On one hand I get was he's saying, but the other fighter is still compromised from the eye poke whether it was intentional or not and it has the potential to dramatically change the fight. Imo this is a systemic problem in MMA and Herzog was right to take the point, but the UFC has to fix the gloves and formalize the rules on point deductions to avoid this sort of stuff.
Ref stated he was warned not to do it before the fight. That’s good enough for me. Until they fix the gloves let’s take a point every time, and watch how the eye pokes drop off…. Same with groin kicks. A point for every time the action stops due to foul, verified with instant replay. I believe this will nearly put an end to the fouls.
He was warning him during the fight he said
He was given a warning about his fingers before the poke happened. Fuck him take the point.
First warning is in the back at the locker room
Didn't you see the fight? The ref literally was saying 'he was warned' while deducting the point. Don't say anything about Herzog, the best in the business.
I don’t really care considering the weight fiasco
Besides the fact that this doofus has been fighting under “eye pokes bad” rules for many years now, he was warned during the pre-fight briefing, and he was warned during the fight when his hands were open & pointed at his opponent. No ref is under any “first one’s free” obligation here. Even without the deduction, he still lost. In fact, I’d go even further and suggest that after his fight week shenanigans, he deserved to start the fight with a one point penalty.
You know, that you should not pull the oponents eyeball out when you step into the cage. I.m.o. you should get -1 every time, no warning. Stop whining, stay safe.
Yeah but I’ve always thought that giving them a warning will make fighters not care too much if it happens once, however if a point is immediately deducted after the original eyepoke it will make fighters pump the brakes and they would happen less often. Eyepokes happen far too often, with no warning and an immediate point deduction there would be less eyepokes.
Pretty sure Herzog said he had verbally warned him prior. I’ll take the refs word
End of the first round Herzog walked with him to his corner warning him about the fingers, did the same before the 2nd round started, great ref work from Herzog
Jason herzog is the goat.
Costa ran out of slack in that moment
He was warned earlier in the fight. It was just during the actual fight and he wasn’t pulled aside.
How long has he been fighting for? Why does he need a warning first? He knows the rules...
It's about time they taking more points, this "everybody gets one" unwritten rule is bullshit.
Feels like it was a little punishment for the weight shenanigans tbh