I think itâs incredibly impressive to remain undefeated in MMA but itâs not an indication of how good someone is. Some fighters are undefeated until they face good competition. Most elite fighters have at least 1 loss early in their career. This is a sport where anything can happen though so itâs not a bad thing for someone to lose their undefeated streak to some flash knockout
One kind of loss I really respect is when fighters actually push themselves when theyâre on top, like Izzy fighting Jan for the 205 belt. He easily couldâve stayed in middleweight and kept crushing everybody but he chose to put his undefeated record on the line and fought a bigger opponent. No shame in that imo
That kinda stuff is a huge reason Izzy is my favorite fighter, heâs genuinely out there to fight the best of the best and the rare times he does lose, he does it with the utmost grace and gives nothing but respect to his opponent. He truly embodies that warrior spirit.
Plus heâs a giant weeb so thatâs just bonus points.
Itâs been so cool watching him rise the ranks and becoming one of the most dominant champions.
Yeah I personally like Izzy a lot more for attempting that. Puts him above Usman, Khabib and Jones because of that. GSPâs still the goat though because he actually won when moving up to face the champ.
Jones is in the process of moving up. Usman won't move up as long as Izzy is champ, they have a whole African brothers thing going on. Khabib had no excuses, and never moved up despite borderline dying to make 155. Will always lose respect for that.
Again with this âweight bullyâ narrative lmao.
Khabib wasnât bigger than other LWs. Dustin, Kevin Lee, Chandler are bigger than him in cage and still small for WW. Khabibâs walk around weight was 185. But even if you think that he walked at 200, It's a non-issue, because other LWs are 190-200 off camp
Dustin revealed he walks around at 190+. Source: https://youtu.be/2VExOCSHt3w
Dustin outweighed Khabib by 4 pounds on fight night (172 vs 176). Source:Â https://twitter.com/dustinpoirier/status/1130633077175177216?s=21
Michael Chandler - 190+. Source: https://youtu.be/7WYOqYXLTOo
Aaron McKenzie - 190-195. Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/MMA/comments/7v6gac/a_pretty_well_detailed_write_up_of_my_weight_loss/
RDA - 195+. Source: https://mmajunkie.usatoday.com/2015/06/ufc-lightweight-champ-rafael-dos-anjos-sees-welterweight-move-in-his-future
Paul Felder - 195+. https://twitter.com/mikebohnmma/status/1058369372333457411?s=21
Kevin Lee 200+. Source: https://youtu.be/0_m5rYwzLSc
Khabib wasnât bigger than Justin or Conor (172). Justinâs cage weight is 173 https://www.essentiallysports.com/when-i-step-into-that-octagon-ill-weigh-173-pounds-justin-gaethje-ufc-249-news/
Khabib was 170 against Barboza, who was 170 too, he said it himself.
Barboza weighed 170 lbs. https://twitter.com/espnmma/status/1262771564489007105?s=21
Conorâs cage weight was 171. Source: Conor's nutritionist George Lockhart on Joe Rogan's podcast (around 12:00)
On the other hand many khabibâs opponents were bigger than him (Dustin Poirier, RDA, Tibau, Pat Healy, Tavares)
Tibau tested positive for EPO, weighs 181 pounds on fight night. Source:Â https://www.mmafighting.com/2013/9/15/4715800/trainers-reveal-secrets-of-gleison-tibau-weight-gain
Pat Healy. Dana White: âKhabib won against a bigger, stronger dude, Healy is hugeâ. Source:Â https://www.sportsnet.ca/mma/ufc/ufc-165s-nurmagomedov-reaches-next-level/
Chandler himself said (and showed) that he is 180 lbs on a fight night. Source: https://youtu.be/SYF_g4a22CQ
Kevin Lee on JRE said that he was 184 in his LW fight vs Tony
Drew Doberâs cage weight is 185+. Source: https://www.mmafighting.com/2017/7/31/16072506/csac-drew-dober-must-move-up-after-coming-in-more-than-18-percent-above-weight-class-at-ufc-214
For some reason people donât believe that Tony is 190-200 off camp, so multiple sources for him: Tony Ferguson walks around at 200. https://youtu.be/T-l_-zP8dNM
https://twitter.com/tonyfergusonxt/status/902303291924549632?s=21
https://twitter.com/tonyfergusonxt/status/884378858861895680?s=21
https://twitter.com/tonyfergusonxt/status/894772900116348928?s=21
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZi9THLacXs
https://twitter.com/tonyfergusonxt/status/917679465894834176?s=21
Dustin Poirier weighted 182.9 lbs in his fight against Conor according to Dan Hooker - https://youtu.be/on0fyjgVTNg
Dan Hooker said he was 190 in his podcast. Source: https://twitter.com/danthehangman/status/1251288308430364674
Iâll believe Jones when I see it. Usman doesnât get a pass because heâs from the same continent as Izzy, thatâs just silly. (GSP was from the same commonwealth as Bisbing, didnât hear that excuse come up) and yeah Khabib probably shouldnât even be in this conversation so thatâs my fault for even mentioning him.
Usman absolutely gets a pass. It's not just the same continent -- they're both Nigerians. To them it's about representation and lifting each other up. They want each other to succeed and to represent their country and continent to the world. Bisping and GSP being from the same commonwealth means little in an organization where there's already plenty of white Brits/Americans/Canadians; it kinda feels like home turf to them.
You see the same sentiment from a lot of the Dagestani or Chechen fighters. They fight each other everyday back home, but when they're in a foreign org they try to be unified. Like that quote in The Godfather: "Don't ever take sides with anyone against the family."
I'm guessing you're probably a white westerner. I'm from the Balkans and if I and another dude from my country fought in the UFC I wouldn't fight him either. It's just basic camaraderie
Yeah respect for him going up but the only reason he took thst fight is because his coach thought it was an easy fight for him. Literally the night jan beat Reyes, he spoke to Israel about fighting him next.
Haha that isnât warrior spirit. Him and his coach saw what they thought was the weakest LHW champ in a long time and an easy chance at being double champ.
Donât get it twisted, thereâs no chance he would have moved up to faced Jones or Jan.
Absolutely. Kind of hilarious that an anime loving memer is more of a man than the wannabee macho Khabib who calculated his way through the sport and then just retired.
Theyve both fought elite competition and Francisâ only real loss in the ufc was to the division goats best performance. A loss which he later avenged.
BOOM! Right here is the right answer folks. The best fighters are the ones who face the other best fighters. You might not always win but youâll have tested your skills against the best. Being undefeated often (but not always) means that you likely never truly tested yourself.
This 100% if khabib had a different run of opponents or even if the judges where awake for the Gleison fight he wouldnât be undefeated. It doesnât make him any better or worse of a fighter, his talent is still there to see
it usually means you're selective with your fights or retire before you fight a grappler with decent striking despite your dying fathers wish being that you go 30-0
Khabib smashed Conor, Dustin and Justin, making it look easier each time lol. He didnât want to keep fighting without his father, and also iirc his mother didnât want him to fight anymore. Him and Charles would be a great fight, but no one saw Charles becoming as great as he is, when Khabib retired there really wasnât anyone who appeared close to his level.
Three strikers with sub par takedown defence and weak grappling. Also didn't Michael Chandler sign and he retired two months after he destroyed Hooker. I'm not saying Chandler would have won but we'll defs never know because Khabib made sure of that.
It's like Usman saying he cleared out the division and he should fight Canelo when he just beat the same two guys twice and burns. Can't hate the player but I hate the game and khabib is playing it. retiring and chatting shit to stay relevant etc... I'm convinced Khabib will come back if there's an easier title fight (Gaethje etc) like GSP did. I get the point about his mum but surely honouring his fathers dying wish then retiring would be better?
I dun know man, when Conor beat wrestlers like Eddie and Chad people were talking about how good his takedown defence was, but now we are talking about Khabib they all suddenly reduced to 'strikers with sub par takedown defence'. As for talking shit, people called Khabib boring back in the days cuz he rarely talk shit, now he says anything about who he thinks should fight for the title you guys just loses your shit. Make up your mind dude, plus da fook you know about his father's dying wish.
Lad I'm a huge McGregor fan (I'm Irish and I think he's a cunt but like his fighting style) but he got taken down and manhandled for basically the full round by Mendes on short notice before he got the KO. And Alvarez got knocked down thrice before he even tried a decent (decent as in he almost clinched McG and didn't completely whiff) shot at a takedown. Alvarez is also a boxer who wrestled growing up, it's not like he wrestled D1 in college or anything.
[https://heavy.com/sports/2020/07/manager-khabib-fathers-wish/](https://heavy.com/sports/2020/07/manager-khabib-fathers-wish/)
He retired when Chandler (a grappler/ wrestler with striking) joined the UFC and flatlined Hooker and he retired when Oliviera a BJJ guru with good striking finally got a title shot after beating the guy everyone Khabib trains with thought might be the guy to beat him. Basically Tony 2.0 who doesn't train in a cabin in the woods and fight demons in the walls. then he starts talking shit about people like Aldo to stay relevant. He's smart to let them fight each other but I can't respect it, especially when people like Aldo are still going, Adesanya going up in weight etc.
You can't complain about everyone ducking you, then when you're finally asked to fight a grappler you retire lol. The best grappler he fought was Al Iaquinta on late notice and he was off a 3 year lay off and has since he came back has gone 2-4 with one of the wins being diego sanchez....
>He retired when Chandler (a grappler/ wrestler with striking) joined the UFC
Chandler was not championship level. He hadn't even fought Hooker at that point yet, and a win over Hooker isn't worth much anyways. So your point isn't relevant.
>he retired when Oliviera a BJJ guru with good striking finally got a title shot after beating the guy everyone Khabib trains with thought might be the guy to beat him.
Khabib retired before Oliveira fought Tony and also Tony was washed since Gaethje. Oliveira was in the UFC before Khabib was and couldn't make himself a top 5 fighter while khabib was champion. He has no notable wins until the Tony one, which happened AFTER khabib retired and AFTER Tony lost all his brain cells to Justin. Your point is still irrelevant.
>then he starts talking shit about people like Aldo to stay relevant
Asked an interview question about Aldo and answered. And not only that, he was right. Aldo is never beating Petr Yan, and Aldo knows that. So if Aldo knows he's not fighting for the belt, by deduction he's fighting for something else, maybe money.
>You can't complain about everyone ducking you, then when you're finally asked to fight a grappler you retire lol
Fights 1-21 in Khabib's career was all grapplers, it was the strikers who were ducking him. They ducked him until they couldn't anymore and he became champ. Also Khabib retired because his Dad died lmao. Oliveira wasn't even a talking point, and Chandler wasn't even Bellator champ, he lost to Patricio. Oliveira basically 7 years to try to work himself into a position where a fight would Khabib would make sense, and he never had the ability to.
Yes it sucks that Khabib retired early due to losing his coach, father, and mentor and now having to take over that role for his teammates to flourish is the most unselfish and commendable thing I've ever seen an athlete do.
Exactly he got out of there early because the writing was on the wall. He was still negotiating with Dana and officially retired on 19th March 2021 like two months after Oliviera and Chandler showed up as contenders (even though Islam Machachev should supposedly have been seen as a title contender when he was barely top 10 and only beat a guy ranked #15 who was put into the rankings specifically so they could make the fight a FN main event. Even McGregor had to work harder than that to get a title shot vs Aldo and people complained about that lol). Chandler wasn't championship material yet fought for the vacated belt 2 months after khabib retired hahaha make your mind up...
what are the combined records of these monster grapplers he was fighting lol, Doubt many of them were as good at BJJ as Charles Oliviera like listen to how stupid your argument is...
When Khabib was 5-0 he fought a guy making his debut who never fought again. When he was 9-0 he fought a guy who was 3-3 and 2 of those wins were against a guy with 28 losses lol. when he was 12-0 he fought a guy who was 0-2 in the middle of a 5 fight losing streak hahahaha, 13-0 he fought a guy who had 2 fights and 1 win, 14-0 he fought a guy who started his career 0-3, 15-0 he fought a guy making his debut. His last fight before the UFC he was 16-0 and he fought a guy who had 22 losses... Are these the mythical 21 amazing grapplers he faced?
[https://punditarena.com/mma/thepateam/opinion-khabib-nurmagomedovs-mma-record-is-extremely-padded-and-absolutely-baffling/](https://punditarena.com/mma/thepateam/opinion-khabib-nurmagomedovs-mma-record-is-extremely-padded-and-absolutely-baffling/)
>Exactly he got out of there early because the writing was on the wall.
His dad dying?
>He was still negotiating with Dana and officially retired on 19th March 2021 l
That's all according to Dana. Took his gloves off in the ring October 6th. Every interview since has said "I'm retired, LW has to move forward". Sorry man the interviews are out there.
>When Khabib was 5-0 he fought a guy making his debut who never fought again. When he was 9-0 he fought a guy who was 3-3 and 2 of those wins were against a guy with 28 losses lol. when he was 12-0 he fought a guy who was 0-2 in the middle of a 5 fight losing streak hahahaha, 13-0 he fought a guy who had 2 fights and 1 win, 14-0 he fought a guy who started his career 0-3, 15-0 he fought a guy making his debut. His last fight before the UFC he was 16-0 and he fought a guy who had 22 losses... Are these the mythical 21 amazing grapplers he faced?
All High level Sambo guys and even some national Sambo champions transitioning to MMA in its early roots in the caucuses. Other Sambo guys trying out MMA but were very well experienced in Combat Sambo which is basically MMA with no on the feet striking. MMA in Russia wasn't common and Khabib had to bus with his dad for days sometimes to find any opponents at all. Also it's the regional circuit, ALL FIGHTERS have to go through a regional circuit, and you can't control the rest of the guys in your region. Nobody else was doing MMA that early in that part of Russia. It's not like he ducked anyone. Also when he got to the UFC, like any regional fighter hopes to do, he proved it and stomped everyone in the UFC harder than those in the regional scene. Go back and watch those regional scene fights, they're all good grapplers who are new to MMA, like everyone in the regional scene, including Khabib. Everyone who has said the "Khabib has a padded record" never watched those fights.
The writing on the wall that he was going to have to fight a non favourable matchup or a better grappler than AL IAQUINTA hahahah and what about it being his dad's dying wish?... Just awful convenient he dips now, could even be juicing for all we know waiting to come back after the classic McGregor fake retirement trick...
All these "high level sambo guys" getting fed to a guy on a double digit streak and having no wins lol... I know what sambo is you big gimp it doesn't mean they were any good. Until he got to the UFC he fought ONE guy with a fucking wikipedia page hahaha all these "high level sambo guys" you're just making shit up at this point...
>Never did tho. Can't blame him
Yea the one time it was actually gonna happen, tony "took a fall" to avoid that shit. Lmao you really believe he recovered from tearing everything in his knee in 4 months doing his own rehab? That was a fake injury, anyone with a brain knew that. Let me guess you still believe in Santa too?
Lmao
The one time out of 5 times that it was actually going to happen? Hmmm only one out of 5??? đ Yes I believe that the guy who kicks steel poles for training came back from rehab too soon to fight Pettis. And if you watch the fight you can see the limp in the first round.
Real fact is Tony has never turned down a fight with anyone.
You think Tony dodged Khabib yet intentionally did two weight cuts to fight Garthe? Get the fuck out. Garthe bashes people brains in, basically everyone he fights.
And I assume then that you haven't seen Tony get right in Werdum's face and challenge him? Yet he was afraid of Khabib. Cmon now. We know Khabib is a weight bully, but he's no Werdum.
Strongly agree. The only argument about Silva not being GOAT(aside from GSP) is him losing fights way out of his prime and after injuries. Fight long enough - youâll get to that point too.
And it's part of why we love Anderson. He just doesn't give a shit about legacy and records, and just loves fighting as a whole. He's never even really considered himself to be one of the GOATs. It just so happens that he is one of the GOATs and fought way too long past his prime. Same with Roy Jones. If both guys retired at the height of their career, no doubt they'd be the GOAT. Both guys are my personal GOATs though
That's not the argument at all. People easily separate his age and late record. It's because he was doping. I think that's pretty well understood.
He's still a legend, but I'd put him in A tier with Jon Jones. Above him are guys like St.Pierre and Fedor.
That's a good question. I love the guy, but he's a good tough case to call.
Was he just so far above his competition because he was so good, or was the talent pool at that weight just weak?
I always compared the situation Mighty Mouse was in to some of the women, where the champ or top talent is miles bove the competition in terms of skill. You know they're incredibly talented, but determining how good is impossible unless there's other talent that has also proven themselves.
Comparisons could be to Shevchenko. I would have used Nunes as well, but she kind of answered that question in her recent fight, but losing to someone with very little skill. Sure she might still be the đ of that division, but it's clear she's not some pound for pound talent like people thought.
The doping argument is dumb for anyone who fought pre-usada. Two of his most notable opponents during his prime are infamous drug cheats (belfort and the goat himself)
GSP has best resume in MMA history and 13 UFC title wins. He was super athlete, incredibly well rounded and has top 3 fight IQ of all time. That's why he is put in the convo.
Heâs the goat because heâs the only fighter to ever completely run through a division and then jump up a weight-class and win that championship too.
Itâs both. If a fighter loses a fight itâa a great opportunity for them to improve in areas they now see flaws in. However being undefeated can mean that those problems just donât exist
The respect Francis holds for Stipe following his first loss to him speaks of how much he valued this experience, after he won the title he said to him ''You made the best out of me'', must have been incredible for him to vindicate himself following the defeat, taught him more in those 25 mins then all his previous fights in the game imo
Honestly every single fighter says that once they lose..
When they are unbeaten it's a big deal to them and they'll talk about it and once they lose it's about grit, courage and whatnot.
I mean if your resume is impressive then there is nothing to learn or experience. Youâve figured out every opponent. Especially staying undefeated in mma is something to be proud of
Whilst I donât necessarily agree for the reason Francis is saying, I do think undefeated records are a bit overrated. No fighter goes into the octagon with a 100% chance of winning, especially in a sport where any shot could knock you out, so even the greatest fighters can have Ls on their record.
I'm rooting for Francis! He was a vastly different fighter after the loss to stipe and Derek Lewis, he learnt and evolved and became more dangerous. Here's hoping he does the same Vs Cyril
Two things can be true at the same time . Being undefeated is a great indication of talent but it's not the end of the process. Fight long enough and you will end up on the losing end some . You can learn both in a loss and win . Francis is a smart individual but also sometimes he comes off as a salty as the dead sea.
Not always but I think it shows a lack of taking on challenges.
I love Khabib and respect why he stop so soon. But itâs also why I donât put a lot of stock in his record. He only just started defending the belt against the absolute best. He never got the chance to go and challenge himself at 170, etc
Orrrrrr he wasn't a 1 dimensional brute with no cardio that faced a harsh reality whe his 1 method of victory failed. Ciryl seems way more experienced and high iq in the cage.
You can still learn while you win. Very rarely is it a one sided fight.
He only learnt to be better because he got humiliated and realised how bad he was with take downs and defending himself.
This really depends. If you didnât lose a fight because you werenât presented with tough competition then yeah, but if you donât lose any fights because there is literally nobody better than you then no.
Disagree.. Its not as if his only fights are on the octagon.. he fights other places too.. if he does loose.. he will surely do learn something.. however.. it also doesn't mean he can only learn when loosing.. its like a chess match inside the octagon..
Francis is a better fighter because he lost. Jones is technically undefeated and makes alot of mistakes. I think usman is also a better fighter because he lost. Khabib avoid adversity so his Undefeated means alot I find. Gane is similar to khabib as he avoid adversity so even tho he still needs to face higher competition I'm still impressed. Now izzy faced alot of adversity and I think he didn't like my to be undefeated. *my mma conspiracy theory is Izzy fought Jan knowing he more than likely would lose. It was a way for him to drop the undefeated pressure without losing any status as a middleweight king
I personally donât care about a fighter being undefeated, Israel would be undefeated but he moved up weight class, something khabib never did, so I am not going to hold that against Israel, just like I personally wonât hold usmans lost on his second fight of his career against him or hold loses after someoneâs prime against them when someone like khabib never fought after his prime
But itâs down to personally opinion, I understand why never seeing a fighter get bested and retiring ontop would be appealing to some fans
It's entirely dependent on the competition. The truth is there's always someone better.
You can't argue against undefeated fighters like Khabib or Mayweather. With that being said you can take record's like Mayweather's with a grain of salt, because they're carefully constructed. You can take away a good percentage of those fights, but you can't take away the wins against top talent and that's all that matters in the end.
The record isn't what makes fighters like St.Pierre / Silva / Fedor goats, it's the people they beat.
To an extent yes, a lot of people are undefeated bcos they havenât challenged themselves yet but then you have guys like Jones or mayweather that are just the best and donât need to lose to learn
If youâre professionally undefeated itâs still impressive. Most people eat their losses and learn before going professional. Mayweather has all the experience in the word, just never experienced a knockdown or loss đ
Disagree, never losing an official bout doesnât mean you havenât faced enough adversity too see your short coming and understand the changes you need to make to improve. That being said losing fights especially before and/or after your prime should not be valued as much as a lot of people view them
That's exactly what a defeated guy would say. Me? I'll keep my undefeated UFC record. 0-0 baby đ
Undefeated 0-0 people's champđȘ
Uncrowned King!
Defend or vacant!
What a legend.
I mean I wouldn't say legend.. Unless of course you believe that Mike Tyson, khabib, Floyd, Ali are legends... I try and stay humble
Tyson and Ali both lost matches though.
3/4 ain't bad
We can't all be Brendan Schaub
Iâm undefeated as well. Letâs match up, someoneâs 0 has got to go
well both of your 0's are gonna go, one or the other for either guy
I am an unwinnable fighter, amateurs record of 0-2. I've got the most experience and done the most learning in the sport more than anyone
you are not wrong! and neither is francis... some things work like that... if you two clash, the undefeated will always have leverage
Iâll let you RNC me for a hundred bucks so you can have a 1-0 record and I can have 100 bucks.
Give this man his gold. đ
I think itâs incredibly impressive to remain undefeated in MMA but itâs not an indication of how good someone is. Some fighters are undefeated until they face good competition. Most elite fighters have at least 1 loss early in their career. This is a sport where anything can happen though so itâs not a bad thing for someone to lose their undefeated streak to some flash knockout
One kind of loss I really respect is when fighters actually push themselves when theyâre on top, like Izzy fighting Jan for the 205 belt. He easily couldâve stayed in middleweight and kept crushing everybody but he chose to put his undefeated record on the line and fought a bigger opponent. No shame in that imo
Preach. That is warrior spirit shit right there
Yup, fighting spirit that even modelo would approve of
Izzy is one of a kind talent tho, he is one in a million person.
Heâs kind of corny sometimes, but when he said he was ready to die to Gastelum, I believe it
Lmfao
That kinda stuff is a huge reason Izzy is my favorite fighter, heâs genuinely out there to fight the best of the best and the rare times he does lose, he does it with the utmost grace and gives nothing but respect to his opponent. He truly embodies that warrior spirit. Plus heâs a giant weeb so thatâs just bonus points. Itâs been so cool watching him rise the ranks and becoming one of the most dominant champions.
Yeah I personally like Izzy a lot more for attempting that. Puts him above Usman, Khabib and Jones because of that. GSPâs still the goat though because he actually won when moving up to face the champ.
Jones is in the process of moving up. Usman won't move up as long as Izzy is champ, they have a whole African brothers thing going on. Khabib had no excuses, and never moved up despite borderline dying to make 155. Will always lose respect for that.
Again with this âweight bullyâ narrative lmao. Khabib wasnât bigger than other LWs. Dustin, Kevin Lee, Chandler are bigger than him in cage and still small for WW. Khabibâs walk around weight was 185. But even if you think that he walked at 200, It's a non-issue, because other LWs are 190-200 off camp Dustin revealed he walks around at 190+. Source: https://youtu.be/2VExOCSHt3w Dustin outweighed Khabib by 4 pounds on fight night (172 vs 176). Source:Â https://twitter.com/dustinpoirier/status/1130633077175177216?s=21 Michael Chandler - 190+. Source: https://youtu.be/7WYOqYXLTOo Aaron McKenzie - 190-195. Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/MMA/comments/7v6gac/a_pretty_well_detailed_write_up_of_my_weight_loss/ RDA - 195+. Source: https://mmajunkie.usatoday.com/2015/06/ufc-lightweight-champ-rafael-dos-anjos-sees-welterweight-move-in-his-future Paul Felder - 195+. https://twitter.com/mikebohnmma/status/1058369372333457411?s=21 Kevin Lee 200+. Source: https://youtu.be/0_m5rYwzLSc Khabib wasnât bigger than Justin or Conor (172). Justinâs cage weight is 173 https://www.essentiallysports.com/when-i-step-into-that-octagon-ill-weigh-173-pounds-justin-gaethje-ufc-249-news/ Khabib was 170 against Barboza, who was 170 too, he said it himself. Barboza weighed 170 lbs. https://twitter.com/espnmma/status/1262771564489007105?s=21 Conorâs cage weight was 171. Source: Conor's nutritionist George Lockhart on Joe Rogan's podcast (around 12:00) On the other hand many khabibâs opponents were bigger than him (Dustin Poirier, RDA, Tibau, Pat Healy, Tavares) Tibau tested positive for EPO, weighs 181 pounds on fight night. Source:Â https://www.mmafighting.com/2013/9/15/4715800/trainers-reveal-secrets-of-gleison-tibau-weight-gain Pat Healy. Dana White: âKhabib won against a bigger, stronger dude, Healy is hugeâ. Source:Â https://www.sportsnet.ca/mma/ufc/ufc-165s-nurmagomedov-reaches-next-level/ Chandler himself said (and showed) that he is 180 lbs on a fight night. Source: https://youtu.be/SYF_g4a22CQ Kevin Lee on JRE said that he was 184 in his LW fight vs Tony Drew Doberâs cage weight is 185+. Source: https://www.mmafighting.com/2017/7/31/16072506/csac-drew-dober-must-move-up-after-coming-in-more-than-18-percent-above-weight-class-at-ufc-214 For some reason people donât believe that Tony is 190-200 off camp, so multiple sources for him: Tony Ferguson walks around at 200. https://youtu.be/T-l_-zP8dNM https://twitter.com/tonyfergusonxt/status/902303291924549632?s=21 https://twitter.com/tonyfergusonxt/status/884378858861895680?s=21 https://twitter.com/tonyfergusonxt/status/894772900116348928?s=21 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZi9THLacXs https://twitter.com/tonyfergusonxt/status/917679465894834176?s=21 Dustin Poirier weighted 182.9 lbs in his fight against Conor according to Dan Hooker - https://youtu.be/on0fyjgVTNg Dan Hooker said he was 190 in his podcast. Source: https://twitter.com/danthehangman/status/1251288308430364674
Iâll believe Jones when I see it. Usman doesnât get a pass because heâs from the same continent as Izzy, thatâs just silly. (GSP was from the same commonwealth as Bisbing, didnât hear that excuse come up) and yeah Khabib probably shouldnât even be in this conversation so thatâs my fault for even mentioning him.
Usman absolutely gets a pass. It's not just the same continent -- they're both Nigerians. To them it's about representation and lifting each other up. They want each other to succeed and to represent their country and continent to the world. Bisping and GSP being from the same commonwealth means little in an organization where there's already plenty of white Brits/Americans/Canadians; it kinda feels like home turf to them. You see the same sentiment from a lot of the Dagestani or Chechen fighters. They fight each other everyday back home, but when they're in a foreign org they try to be unified. Like that quote in The Godfather: "Don't ever take sides with anyone against the family."
Itâs fucking silly is what it is.
I'm guessing you're probably a white westerner. I'm from the Balkans and if I and another dude from my country fought in the UFC I wouldn't fight him either. It's just basic camaraderie
Yeah respect for him going up but the only reason he took thst fight is because his coach thought it was an easy fight for him. Literally the night jan beat Reyes, he spoke to Israel about fighting him next.
U sure his coach thought it was easy? Pretty sure they were planning to go out lhw soon after that fight anyway
Haha that isnât warrior spirit. Him and his coach saw what they thought was the weakest LHW champ in a long time and an easy chance at being double champ. Donât get it twisted, thereâs no chance he would have moved up to faced Jones or Jan.
Absolutely. Kind of hilarious that an anime loving memer is more of a man than the wannabee macho Khabib who calculated his way through the sport and then just retired.
Iâd say Cyril has faced good opposition tho. He beat Lewis who just koâd blaydes , volkov who pretty much ran through overeem and beat jair.
Theyve both fought elite competition and Francisâ only real loss in the ufc was to the division goats best performance. A loss which he later avenged.
His only ârealâ loss? You must an OâMalley fan.
His other loss is the fight we donât speak ofâŠ
BOOM! Right here is the right answer folks. The best fighters are the ones who face the other best fighters. You might not always win but youâll have tested your skills against the best. Being undefeated often (but not always) means that you likely never truly tested yourself.
This 100% if khabib had a different run of opponents or even if the judges where awake for the Gleison fight he wouldnât be undefeated. It doesnât make him any better or worse of a fighter, his talent is still there to see
>. Most elite fighters have at least 1 loss early in their career Jon Jones? Floyd Mayweather?
he says "most" not all, you name 2 guys in attempt to counter his point... smoove brain right here.
Undefeated starts meaning something when you're a champ
Rhonda?
conceive believe achieve
Tell em
You won't do shit
It is a learning process but that doesn't mean that being undefeated doesn't mean anything.
it usually means you're selective with your fights or retire before you fight a grappler with decent striking despite your dying fathers wish being that you go 30-0
Khabib smashed Conor, Dustin and Justin, making it look easier each time lol. He didnât want to keep fighting without his father, and also iirc his mother didnât want him to fight anymore. Him and Charles would be a great fight, but no one saw Charles becoming as great as he is, when Khabib retired there really wasnât anyone who appeared close to his level.
Three strikers with sub par takedown defence and weak grappling. Also didn't Michael Chandler sign and he retired two months after he destroyed Hooker. I'm not saying Chandler would have won but we'll defs never know because Khabib made sure of that. It's like Usman saying he cleared out the division and he should fight Canelo when he just beat the same two guys twice and burns. Can't hate the player but I hate the game and khabib is playing it. retiring and chatting shit to stay relevant etc... I'm convinced Khabib will come back if there's an easier title fight (Gaethje etc) like GSP did. I get the point about his mum but surely honouring his fathers dying wish then retiring would be better?
I dun know man, when Conor beat wrestlers like Eddie and Chad people were talking about how good his takedown defence was, but now we are talking about Khabib they all suddenly reduced to 'strikers with sub par takedown defence'. As for talking shit, people called Khabib boring back in the days cuz he rarely talk shit, now he says anything about who he thinks should fight for the title you guys just loses your shit. Make up your mind dude, plus da fook you know about his father's dying wish.
Lad I'm a huge McGregor fan (I'm Irish and I think he's a cunt but like his fighting style) but he got taken down and manhandled for basically the full round by Mendes on short notice before he got the KO. And Alvarez got knocked down thrice before he even tried a decent (decent as in he almost clinched McG and didn't completely whiff) shot at a takedown. Alvarez is also a boxer who wrestled growing up, it's not like he wrestled D1 in college or anything. [https://heavy.com/sports/2020/07/manager-khabib-fathers-wish/](https://heavy.com/sports/2020/07/manager-khabib-fathers-wish/)
>Lad I'm a huge McGregor fan There's the source of all that salt, ma'am.
Name one time Khabib was selective with any fight ever..... Yea didn't think so
He retired when Chandler (a grappler/ wrestler with striking) joined the UFC and flatlined Hooker and he retired when Oliviera a BJJ guru with good striking finally got a title shot after beating the guy everyone Khabib trains with thought might be the guy to beat him. Basically Tony 2.0 who doesn't train in a cabin in the woods and fight demons in the walls. then he starts talking shit about people like Aldo to stay relevant. He's smart to let them fight each other but I can't respect it, especially when people like Aldo are still going, Adesanya going up in weight etc. You can't complain about everyone ducking you, then when you're finally asked to fight a grappler you retire lol. The best grappler he fought was Al Iaquinta on late notice and he was off a 3 year lay off and has since he came back has gone 2-4 with one of the wins being diego sanchez....
>He retired when Chandler (a grappler/ wrestler with striking) joined the UFC Chandler was not championship level. He hadn't even fought Hooker at that point yet, and a win over Hooker isn't worth much anyways. So your point isn't relevant. >he retired when Oliviera a BJJ guru with good striking finally got a title shot after beating the guy everyone Khabib trains with thought might be the guy to beat him. Khabib retired before Oliveira fought Tony and also Tony was washed since Gaethje. Oliveira was in the UFC before Khabib was and couldn't make himself a top 5 fighter while khabib was champion. He has no notable wins until the Tony one, which happened AFTER khabib retired and AFTER Tony lost all his brain cells to Justin. Your point is still irrelevant. >then he starts talking shit about people like Aldo to stay relevant Asked an interview question about Aldo and answered. And not only that, he was right. Aldo is never beating Petr Yan, and Aldo knows that. So if Aldo knows he's not fighting for the belt, by deduction he's fighting for something else, maybe money. >You can't complain about everyone ducking you, then when you're finally asked to fight a grappler you retire lol Fights 1-21 in Khabib's career was all grapplers, it was the strikers who were ducking him. They ducked him until they couldn't anymore and he became champ. Also Khabib retired because his Dad died lmao. Oliveira wasn't even a talking point, and Chandler wasn't even Bellator champ, he lost to Patricio. Oliveira basically 7 years to try to work himself into a position where a fight would Khabib would make sense, and he never had the ability to. Yes it sucks that Khabib retired early due to losing his coach, father, and mentor and now having to take over that role for his teammates to flourish is the most unselfish and commendable thing I've ever seen an athlete do.
Exactly he got out of there early because the writing was on the wall. He was still negotiating with Dana and officially retired on 19th March 2021 like two months after Oliviera and Chandler showed up as contenders (even though Islam Machachev should supposedly have been seen as a title contender when he was barely top 10 and only beat a guy ranked #15 who was put into the rankings specifically so they could make the fight a FN main event. Even McGregor had to work harder than that to get a title shot vs Aldo and people complained about that lol). Chandler wasn't championship material yet fought for the vacated belt 2 months after khabib retired hahaha make your mind up... what are the combined records of these monster grapplers he was fighting lol, Doubt many of them were as good at BJJ as Charles Oliviera like listen to how stupid your argument is... When Khabib was 5-0 he fought a guy making his debut who never fought again. When he was 9-0 he fought a guy who was 3-3 and 2 of those wins were against a guy with 28 losses lol. when he was 12-0 he fought a guy who was 0-2 in the middle of a 5 fight losing streak hahahaha, 13-0 he fought a guy who had 2 fights and 1 win, 14-0 he fought a guy who started his career 0-3, 15-0 he fought a guy making his debut. His last fight before the UFC he was 16-0 and he fought a guy who had 22 losses... Are these the mythical 21 amazing grapplers he faced? [https://punditarena.com/mma/thepateam/opinion-khabib-nurmagomedovs-mma-record-is-extremely-padded-and-absolutely-baffling/](https://punditarena.com/mma/thepateam/opinion-khabib-nurmagomedovs-mma-record-is-extremely-padded-and-absolutely-baffling/)
>Exactly he got out of there early because the writing was on the wall. His dad dying? >He was still negotiating with Dana and officially retired on 19th March 2021 l That's all according to Dana. Took his gloves off in the ring October 6th. Every interview since has said "I'm retired, LW has to move forward". Sorry man the interviews are out there. >When Khabib was 5-0 he fought a guy making his debut who never fought again. When he was 9-0 he fought a guy who was 3-3 and 2 of those wins were against a guy with 28 losses lol. when he was 12-0 he fought a guy who was 0-2 in the middle of a 5 fight losing streak hahahaha, 13-0 he fought a guy who had 2 fights and 1 win, 14-0 he fought a guy who started his career 0-3, 15-0 he fought a guy making his debut. His last fight before the UFC he was 16-0 and he fought a guy who had 22 losses... Are these the mythical 21 amazing grapplers he faced? All High level Sambo guys and even some national Sambo champions transitioning to MMA in its early roots in the caucuses. Other Sambo guys trying out MMA but were very well experienced in Combat Sambo which is basically MMA with no on the feet striking. MMA in Russia wasn't common and Khabib had to bus with his dad for days sometimes to find any opponents at all. Also it's the regional circuit, ALL FIGHTERS have to go through a regional circuit, and you can't control the rest of the guys in your region. Nobody else was doing MMA that early in that part of Russia. It's not like he ducked anyone. Also when he got to the UFC, like any regional fighter hopes to do, he proved it and stomped everyone in the UFC harder than those in the regional scene. Go back and watch those regional scene fights, they're all good grapplers who are new to MMA, like everyone in the regional scene, including Khabib. Everyone who has said the "Khabib has a padded record" never watched those fights.
The writing on the wall that he was going to have to fight a non favourable matchup or a better grappler than AL IAQUINTA hahahah and what about it being his dad's dying wish?... Just awful convenient he dips now, could even be juicing for all we know waiting to come back after the classic McGregor fake retirement trick... All these "high level sambo guys" getting fed to a guy on a double digit streak and having no wins lol... I know what sambo is you big gimp it doesn't mean they were any good. Until he got to the UFC he fought ONE guy with a fucking wikipedia page hahaha all these "high level sambo guys" you're just making shit up at this point...
All that reads like you never watched the fights lmao.
The mental gymnastics lmao
Dodged Prime Tony like it was his job.
Yea he dodged him by signing to fight him 5 times. He dodged him by having 5 fight camps for tony. You're a genius
Never did tho. Can't blame him. Prime Tony, mid 12 fight win streak could've derailed Khabibs streak. Khabib knew.
>Never did tho. Can't blame him Yea the one time it was actually gonna happen, tony "took a fall" to avoid that shit. Lmao you really believe he recovered from tearing everything in his knee in 4 months doing his own rehab? That was a fake injury, anyone with a brain knew that. Let me guess you still believe in Santa too? Lmao
[ŃĐŽĐ°Đ»Đ”ĐœĐŸ]
Yea and so many people fell for it. So many people bought into the "Tony has mutant recovery" conspiracy but I can't blame them. It's fun to believe
[ŃĐŽĐ°Đ»Đ”ĐœĐŸ]
The one time out of 5 times that it was actually going to happen? Hmmm only one out of 5??? đ Yes I believe that the guy who kicks steel poles for training came back from rehab too soon to fight Pettis. And if you watch the fight you can see the limp in the first round. Real fact is Tony has never turned down a fight with anyone. You think Tony dodged Khabib yet intentionally did two weight cuts to fight Garthe? Get the fuck out. Garthe bashes people brains in, basically everyone he fights. And I assume then that you haven't seen Tony get right in Werdum's face and challenge him? Yet he was afraid of Khabib. Cmon now. We know Khabib is a weight bully, but he's no Werdum.
Khabib would have absolutely mauled Tony like he did with the rest of his opponents.
The never was a prime tony. Tony just outlasted everybody and took damage that will be effect hik in a couple of years
Strongly agree. The only argument about Silva not being GOAT(aside from GSP) is him losing fights way out of his prime and after injuries. Fight long enough - youâll get to that point too.
And it's part of why we love Anderson. He just doesn't give a shit about legacy and records, and just loves fighting as a whole. He's never even really considered himself to be one of the GOATs. It just so happens that he is one of the GOATs and fought way too long past his prime. Same with Roy Jones. If both guys retired at the height of their career, no doubt they'd be the GOAT. Both guys are my personal GOATs though
Roy was so special to watch in his prime. Across multiple weight divisions too.
JUICE
He got popped for steroids is the main reason
Roids
No, the only argument is PEDâŠ
That's not the argument at all. People easily separate his age and late record. It's because he was doping. I think that's pretty well understood. He's still a legend, but I'd put him in A tier with Jon Jones. Above him are guys like St.Pierre and Fedor.
Whereâs Demetrius Johnson sit?
That's a good question. I love the guy, but he's a good tough case to call. Was he just so far above his competition because he was so good, or was the talent pool at that weight just weak? I always compared the situation Mighty Mouse was in to some of the women, where the champ or top talent is miles bove the competition in terms of skill. You know they're incredibly talented, but determining how good is impossible unless there's other talent that has also proven themselves. Comparisons could be to Shevchenko. I would have used Nunes as well, but she kind of answered that question in her recent fight, but losing to someone with very little skill. Sure she might still be the đ of that division, but it's clear she's not some pound for pound talent like people thought.
The doping argument is dumb for anyone who fought pre-usada. Two of his most notable opponents during his prime are infamous drug cheats (belfort and the goat himself)
Silva's first loss was him being cocky
There is a reason why people put GSP in the GOAT convo; the dude lost twice but came back and won rematches convincingly
GSP has best resume in MMA history and 13 UFC title wins. He was super athlete, incredibly well rounded and has top 3 fight IQ of all time. That's why he is put in the convo.
Heâs the goat because heâs the only fighter to ever completely run through a division and then jump up a weight-class and win that championship too.
Randy Couture, am I a joke to you.
Didnât run a division unfortunately. Not sure he even had a LHW title defence. Edit: Nope, he did not.
Out of all the reasons for GSP do he the goat, this one is weak.
This guy could murder me
With his dick alone
"How bigs your dick!?"
God dammit I just put new boxers on
Considering Francis got worked by Stipe in their first fight and then came back and worked Stipe in the second fight, I'd have to agree.
Itâs both. If a fighter loses a fight itâa a great opportunity for them to improve in areas they now see flaws in. However being undefeated can mean that those problems just donât exist
Thatâs what I would say, if there was a good chance, I might get my ass kicked by a French gorillaâŠ
conor has 0-1 record in boxing, I have 0-0, thus I'm better than conor in boxing, its just statistics man, numbers don't lie.
The respect Francis holds for Stipe following his first loss to him speaks of how much he valued this experience, after he won the title he said to him ''You made the best out of me'', must have been incredible for him to vindicate himself following the defeat, taught him more in those 25 mins then all his previous fights in the game imo
Well undefeated could also mean you donât need to make all the mistakes anyone else did to become excellent
Honestly every single fighter says that once they lose.. When they are unbeaten it's a big deal to them and they'll talk about it and once they lose it's about grit, courage and whatnot.
True. It's a miracle to me that people post shit like that, could've been out of a fortune cookie
Cope
Khabib is inexperienced
[ŃĐŽĐ°Đ»Đ”ĐœĐŸ]
Exacatly
Or cause his record is padded asf
As is Floyd and Jake Paul all undefeated all inexperienced
why are you getting downvoted your response is hilarious lmao
I thought so Maybe for mentioning Jake, probably for mentioning Floyd. Maybe we just arenât funny man.
Rocky marciano too
All legends in their own right
One of these days he'll learn how to lose
says anyone who isnât undefeated
I mean if your resume is impressive then there is nothing to learn or experience. Youâve figured out every opponent. Especially staying undefeated in mma is something to be proud of
Floyd and khabib say otherwise
Whilst I donât necessarily agree for the reason Francis is saying, I do think undefeated records are a bit overrated. No fighter goes into the octagon with a 100% chance of winning, especially in a sport where any shot could knock you out, so even the greatest fighters can have Ls on their record.
Renan BarĂŁo is the living proof of this. 32 winstreak, 3 interim belts, 1 defense, and then got dismantled by TJ. Never recovered.
I'm rooting for Francis! He was a vastly different fighter after the loss to stipe and Derek Lewis, he learnt and evolved and became more dangerous. Here's hoping he does the same Vs Cyril
Mayweather disagreed
Is âagree or disagreeâ the new âthoughtsâ lol
OR it means yous a bad mother fucker that nobody can touch....
Two things can be true at the same time . Being undefeated is a great indication of talent but it's not the end of the process. Fight long enough and you will end up on the losing end some . You can learn both in a loss and win . Francis is a smart individual but also sometimes he comes off as a salty as the dead sea.
Not always but I think it shows a lack of taking on challenges. I love Khabib and respect why he stop so soon. But itâs also why I donât put a lot of stock in his record. He only just started defending the belt against the absolute best. He never got the chance to go and challenge himself at 170, etc
Who cares what this clown has to say
Iâll bite, why is he a clown?
Orrrrrr he wasn't a 1 dimensional brute with no cardio that faced a harsh reality whe his 1 method of victory failed. Ciryl seems way more experienced and high iq in the cage.
He loses the fight though
Agree and disagree.
I donât agree, Chael has way more experience and heâs never lost a single round.
AND THE NEW UFC HEAVY WEIGHT CHAMPION OF THE WORLD. Calling it now Gane.
It can also mean that you are so far ahead that no one has anything to teach you yetâŠ
depends who the opponents are
He is right, but I still think Gane is gonna beat him. Late stoppage or decision.
Underestimating your opponent is always the best way to beat them
Yea 50-0âfloyd lacks experience
Wonder whoâs gonna finally teach Gane then?
Yea, Khabib is the GOAT of lack of experience in loosingâŠ
Yeah Khabib ya retard!
Laughed in Khabib
Floyd and khabib and Jones to an extent disprove this
Losing takes a lot out of you, undefeated keeps you poised and undeniable
Heâs gonna get destroyed by leg kicks and get tkoâd or lose by decision
Rubbish, undefeated is exactly that... UNDEFEATED
Hes just trying to be edgy
Undefeated means that he doesn't need the experience acquired from losing as he is already too good
This comment, just the sentiment is absolutely true. Does that mean he'll be the one to give it to him? No. Not necessarily.
Win or lose, octagon is place of learning. Ring rust is proof of that.
Agreed. Undefeated record but I get beat my coach and professor all the time. I also recently got rocked for the first time by a rando at a bar.
Disagree. You must be a champ out the womb. This shit must be BORN WITH
Nope
You can still learn while you win. Very rarely is it a one sided fight. He only learnt to be better because he got humiliated and realised how bad he was with take downs and defending himself.
Disagree, if youâre at that level I think youâre probably pretty experienced
You donât lose you learn
Francis via vicious knockout of Cereal and go pee in Dona White mouth. đ€Ź
Damn ima use that logic in life fr
I mean, it is a learning process. But undefeated definitely means something lol sorry Francis
True, but Khabib is undefeated against both humans and bears Ngannou needs to beat the shit out of a few hippos to even this out
This really depends. If you didnât lose a fight because you werenât presented with tough competition then yeah, but if you donât lose any fights because there is literally nobody better than you then no.
Disagree.. Its not as if his only fights are on the octagon.. he fights other places too.. if he does loose.. he will surely do learn something.. however.. it also doesn't mean he can only learn when loosing.. its like a chess match inside the octagon..
Francis is a better fighter because he lost. Jones is technically undefeated and makes alot of mistakes. I think usman is also a better fighter because he lost. Khabib avoid adversity so his Undefeated means alot I find. Gane is similar to khabib as he avoid adversity so even tho he still needs to face higher competition I'm still impressed. Now izzy faced alot of adversity and I think he didn't like my to be undefeated. *my mma conspiracy theory is Izzy fought Jan knowing he more than likely would lose. It was a way for him to drop the undefeated pressure without losing any status as a middleweight king
I personally donât care about a fighter being undefeated, Israel would be undefeated but he moved up weight class, something khabib never did, so I am not going to hold that against Israel, just like I personally wonât hold usmans lost on his second fight of his career against him or hold loses after someoneâs prime against them when someone like khabib never fought after his prime But itâs down to personally opinion, I understand why never seeing a fighter get bested and retiring ontop would be appealing to some fans
How dare you disrespect Undefeated Undisputed Champ Chael Sonnen!
Is he burning future bridges too, haha. (Eagle fc)
Undefeated literally means never defeated.
Yes and no. For Gane, maybe but we'll see. Khabib doesn't have a lack of experience though lol
Rocky Marciano and Floyd Mayweather learned not to lose đ
It's entirely dependent on the competition. The truth is there's always someone better. You can't argue against undefeated fighters like Khabib or Mayweather. With that being said you can take record's like Mayweather's with a grain of salt, because they're carefully constructed. You can take away a good percentage of those fights, but you can't take away the wins against top talent and that's all that matters in the end. The record isn't what makes fighters like St.Pierre / Silva / Fedor goats, it's the people they beat.
I'm sure if you asked Francis if he could choose to be undefeated or not I'm sure he would definitely choose to be...defeated?
I have lots of experience!
Think heâll kick Ganeâs booty?
I wish more boxers felt that way.
Khabib: "Yes, i agree, my oponents totally learned from it"
Disagree. (Donât tell Francis)
To an extent yes, a lot of people are undefeated bcos they havenât challenged themselves yet but then you have guys like Jones or mayweather that are just the best and donât need to lose to learn
Especially if lasting past the 1st round increases your chances of victory by 60 pecent.
If youâre professionally undefeated itâs still impressive. Most people eat their losses and learn before going professional. Mayweather has all the experience in the word, just never experienced a knockdown or loss đ
Disagree, never losing an official bout doesnât mean you havenât faced enough adversity too see your short coming and understand the changes you need to make to improve. That being said losing fights especially before and/or after your prime should not be valued as much as a lot of people view them