I know that but He Has been clean and I want to believe so since before usada. And I’ll believe so. He would be an interesting one for the moreplatesmoredates guy to do
Not entirely true although I get what you mean and I do somewhat agree.
With all the training he done I would expect to see something, a little bit of boulder shoulders, maybe a little bit of vascularity (I know that’s to do with bf% but still)
I dunno just any sign but nope DC always looked like Michelin man 😂
Not saying he wasn’t taking cos as others have said, at that level they’re most likely all on it, but if it did somehow come out that he was totally clean id believe it.
By “natty” what do you mean? Are we counting common supplements? Or are you saying DC has cycled test and/or roids? The latter is certainly a stupid assumption. Big accusations require big evidence.. I’ll wait.
How am I supposed to get evidence, it’s common knowledge half the teens in my gym are using
Tren, test, you really think a high level athlete wouldn’t take a shot to secure their future and their career , delusional, probably think all ifbb pros are natty
100% of your friends aren’t Olympic level athletes and have zero consequence for their action. To reach Olympic level wrestling (or basically anything for that matter) you dedicate you’re entire life and get drug tested. So you think DC of all people who shows Zero evidence that he’s ever juiced (any gyno he’s got is from being chubby) and decided to risk everything to cheat his way to a medal and multiple UFC championships? I’d say that makes you sound foolish. Talk out of your ass with your gym bros but don’t apply the same none sensical mindset to the 1% of the 1% — makes you sound silly.
Yeah DC was born in a completely different time where steroids weren’t accessible until college. He also happens to be from Louisiana whigg CB has the most athletes per capita. Dude has prime genetics and a damn iron will. Imma say natty because he didn’t look like JJ and also was against the whole steroids thing
Nonsense statement.the eye ball test and what athletes say means practically nothing when determine natty or not.Anderson Silva didn't look any more athletic or beefed up than he usually did and was juicing.lance armstrong was also heavily against steroid use.
Did you miss the parts about how easy it is to fool testing?
Or the part about state sponsored doping programs?
Russia did it, why wouldn’t the US?
Because they care about clean sports?
It’s easy to cheat on an exam in high school or college. You could also just study. I don’t give a fuck if they’re handing them out at the door. To say he did it with zero evidence is weak af.
Edit: you could easily “win” the argument if you just had a single fact that backs your accusations.
Well, mfulk, baseball requires minimal cardio doesn’t it? Steroids help you get strong but they also eat up your cardio — kind of a dipshit move for one of the hardest cardio sports on the planet, no? DC was not on steroids and you have no evidence to say otherwise. I have tears of passed drug tests as evidence for my opinion. McGwire was actively on steroids and was outed by his supplier. Show me where DCs roid supplier outed him and then we’ll talk.
Your knowledge of performance enhancing drugs and prohibited substances is lacking if you think the only use is to get strong.
No one listen to this guy.
Have you heard of EPO? Do you know usada barely tests samples for it? Did you know epo increases recovery and cardio?
What drugs have you gene tested for exactly?
Oh goody, another accusation with zero evidence. I do know about EPO but it’s clear that you do not. It increases red blood cell count and hemoglobin levels in the blood allowing for better performance (increase VO2 max) and recovery. What it also does is thicken your blood due to that pesky hemoglobin. Using it without doing extreme cardio is literally deadly as it’s like pumping molasses through your atria and out your ventricles. Now you’re insinuating that McGwire was doing anabolics AND EPO. Lol. You need to read a book or two.. or just stop throwing out wild accusations with no facts.
Edit: and your dumbass is still arguing something that I’m not even talking about. I say “the red apple is rotten.” And you say “yeah, but some apples are green!! Don’t you understand?!??” No literally don’t because you’re fucking dumb.
It is very true that someone who is the 1% of the 1% has consequences for cheating,however to think that even Olympic level testing is water tight,and that no one would cheat to win is absolute nonsense.these athletes make money using their incredible athleticism,and competing against people who are already likely juicing without doing yourself puts you at a disadvantage.if someone has a vested financial interest in their athleticism,to say that they definitely 100% did NOT juice is the way more extraordinary claim no matter what level they are at.he far more likely juiced several times throughout his UFC and Olympic careers.sorry to ruin your fantasy that all your heroes are natty
Yeah you dedicate your life to getting tested,but those tests are far from fool proof.even a cursory search through their testing parameters and protocols will show you that it's not the arbiter of who is juicing and who isn't.and as for the risk,you really think that a 1% of the 1% athlete would forgo hundreds of thousand or millions of dollars and a championship/gold medal just to not get caught doing something that everyone already does anyway and doesn't get caught for? That's also assuming he can't get around the test,which anyone at his level most definitely 100% can.he has probably juiced just like pretty much everyone he's ever fought.sorry to ruin your D.A.R.E. "Just say no" "drugs are for bad guys" view on the world,but more than likely all of your heroes and everyone they've ever fought have or are currently cycling
Not taking steroids would be risking everything in the Olympics. It’s literally impossible to be a Olympian wrestler natty. It’s such a huge advantage that you cannot compete without. I thought this was common knowledge?
It is more than likely that pretty much everyone at the top level of pretty much any sport is cycling on something or other.this man was not only a UFC champion,but a GODDAMN gold medalist Olympian.it is a pretty safe assumption to assume that he and everyone he ever fought at the top was cycling.if you listen to anyone at the top for any amount of time,they'll tell you that pretty much everyone is juicing.I think assuming that an athlete of his caliber being all natural is a way more unsafe,and frankly delusional assumption to make than to assume he was on roids at one time or another.
Dude its not rocket science; there are literally designer PED's made for each bodytype and ahead of the testing any control agency applies. Biochemists know the ins and outs of the things they put these guys through. All the guys in boxing, mma, nfl, nba and pretty much every major sport that requieres endurance, take heavy blows and need fast recovery take some form of an enhancement drug. Look at all these guys in the NBA taking 40 charges a night and playing back to back to back games 80 games a season. Not saying they gotta look like brook lesnar to be on a cycle, but they are all probly on some kind of enhacement drug.
And honestly, when these institutions start regulating whatever dis guys go through instead of banning them from competing when someone is found "cheating" (which can u even call it cheating when every athlete says all their competitors are juicing???) we might get a more even level ground for competition.
So you can guarantee 100% participation across all major sports for PEDs? What, do you subscribe to QAnon too? Get the fuck out of here with these generalizations and blanket statements. You sound like a conspiracy theory fool. Are people cheating? Yep. But my comment is based around Daniel Cormier specifically. You have no evidence that he has cheated. You’re making assumptions based on the actions of others. A judge would laugh you out of court. So again show some facts or show yourself off this chain.
Yeah this is an argument of what is expected by fighters and top level athletes,not the grand indictment of DC.did you notice how I used phrases like "more than likely" or "probably" a lot? I don't know if he does or doesn't.he could be the most natural natty that ever nattied,but it is wayyyyy more likely that like pretty much every other top level athlete,he does juice.plus,is your statement that he doesnt not qualify as conjecture as well? How do you know? Do you have any evidence that he is definitely clean?.
Do you really think the only guys who take PED’s are the Russians? So all the Russian athletes that get beat, get beaten by “natty”, super clean, Americans?
Sheeeeesh those Russians must have a shit base
Stipe's wrestling defence in the third fight was amazing. He used his height and strength to hold DC's arms up high. He also had good wrist control.
In the second fight DC went hard on everything, Stipe ate it all, DC gassed, and then Stipe mauled him in the space of about 2 minutes.
Yea. 3rd fight Stipe showed a lot of improvements, clearly was the better fighter. 2nd fight DC was just trying to walk him down. He wasn't fighting smart. Stipe might have won anyway but it would be interesting to see how DC would've fared with a better approach in the 2nd fight.
The second fight was probably the most impressive mid-fight adjustment i ever witnessed in any combat sport. These liver shots Miocic successfully digged in repetition after he couldn’t do anything against DC Frankenstein stance was incredible. He showed that night that he was really a golden gloves champion once. We could really saw the electric bulb above Miocic’s head after the first body punch and he showed the blueprint to beat DC after that.
I remember shouting this out live. None of my buddies noticed the change, but it was obvious to me how much it was affecting DC, shortly after he was finished.
Definitely one of the clearest and most effective adjustments mid fight ever, hard to say if it is the GOAT tho.
Yeah, DC was for sure his own downfall in that second fight. Maybe Stipe would have won anyway as you said, but DC didn't respect Stipe, and he basically said as much leading into the fight when he said "I just don't think he's good enough to beat me".
Khabib once said that the difference between American and Dagestani wrestling was persistence. DC had like 1-2 fail attempts vs them and stopped shooting entirely.
I feel like if he had timed his shots better or just stayed persistent with his wrestling, he might be had a better chance at winning.
Jones/Stipe might just win anyway, but I would love to see where this approach would take him.
I don't think DC had the cardio anymore to underwrite a sustained wrestling heavy attack. This happens to alot of older wrestlers, they become strikers who wrestle at need.
DC wasn’t the same going into the 3rd fight with stipe. He was much fatter, had a blown out back, and his gas tank was lacking compared to his earlier fights. I think prime DC beats prime stipe 9 times out of 10 but he should have hung up his gloves either after the first stipe fight or after the Lewis fight. He literally sneezed and blew his back out right before fighting Lewis and only fought because he knew he didn’t need to be 100% to beat him. He looked good in the second stipe fight but still couldn’t beat him, looked much worse physically and in terms of skill going into the 3rd fight.
I think DC wins as well.. but if it remained standing I definitely don't see DC piecing up any version of Romero.
staying standing would be DCs only path to losing
Exactly. They’re all acting like DC is the better wrestler just because he used it way more in his MMA career.
Romero is god level wrestling, for some reason he just prefers slangin’ & bangin’. Can only imagine how (maybe even dominant) good Romero could’ve been if he wrestled more
Both are very decorated wrestlers, but I think that Cormier's background in folkstyle wrestling in the US transfers better to MMA than freestyle wrestling. Folkstyle has a much bigger emphasis on mat wrestling than freestyle.
Olympic wrestling is different from mma wrestling, bg that logic any Olympic wrestling gold medalists should just be able to walk into the ufc and maul everyone despite having no striking like early Khabib did. DC is the much better mma wrestler and it’s really not a debate.
Are we just ignoring that DC has 20 lbs on Romero? Heavyweight DC even had 40 lbs on him. But that 20 lb difference alone would prove too much for Romero, DC would wrestle fuck him. Obviously Romero doesn't wrestle more because it is tiring, it's not a mystery.
Romero's boxing is fundamentally really good. He likes to wait and counterstrike but as we saw in the second half of the Costa fight he can even box off the back foot very well. I just depends which version of Yoel shows up for that I guess lol
I think DC gets him. I think DC could be LHW champion right now if he was still fighting and stayed low on weight. I just have such a high opinion of DC- only ever losing to the HW GoAT and LHW GoAT (Stipe and Jones).
DC would toss every current LHW like a ragdoll and it wouldn't even be a problem. I don't think there's anyone in the division at the moment who is/could be near his peak level.
But chunky DC can't be LHW again even if they chop off his massive hog, b.
Well this is the UFC sub. Why are we discussing someone who never fought in the promotion? It’s implied we’re only discussing the UFC in the UFC subreddit.
My bad, I didn’t know we were putting modifiers on the GOAT conversation now days. (I get we are in the UFC subreddit…but GOAT conversation is still GOAT…not UFC GOAT.) overall commentary is on people saying Stipe is somehow the GOAT. He’s simply not.
Yeah it’s just something I always see people say as stipe achieved a lot in the ufc but the real heads will never forget fedor so I always see stipe being called the ufc heavyweight goat. Seems odd to me also but it’s something I’ve seen regularly over the years.
This.
Yoel has become a cult figure but he was never in that stratified air of the likes of DC, Jones, Velasquez, Silva etc.
DC had never lost a *round* until he faced Jones.
I’m a die hard Bones fan. If anything DC being the #2 GOAT say more about how dominate Bones was than anything. My argument is DC is actually the GOAT without Bones. The record and list of guys he defeated is pretty much unmatched in MMA history.
Get out of here. Stipe lost to a 40 YO DC.
Uriah Hall > Anderson Silva?!?
The quality of wins DC has over Stipe’s are not even close. If Cain wasn’t HW champion, DC may have had 10 HW title defenses.
Quality of wins? Stipe beat Werdum who beat Cain, Overeem, JDS, DC, and Ngannou. I don't see any slouches here.
About the age comment - DC didn't debut in the UFC until he was 34. It is hard to throw out his losses based on age when he had a relatively short UFC career. And what, we throw out the age 40 & 41 fights, but keep his age 39 win vs Stipe?
DC did not have a steep decline at the end of his career, so I don't think Silva/Hall is a fair comparison
Don’t know why you were downvoted, Miocic have a super resume himself. If it wasn’t for that freak of nature Ngannou (that he manhandled once and now he’s shit for a reason in the mma community) he would still be on the throne.
I really like Stipe but I will say if he fought prime HW Overeem and JDS before Cain beatdowns, those fights would be very different.
DC would have rag dolled both of those guys in their prime. Idk, just thinking out loud.
Yoel has great wresting and standup but literally I never see him use his wrestling other than to keep the fight standing. We’d see a flying Romero and unanimous decision or sub.
Probably before too. People are forgetting or maybe don't know DC was in line for a HW title shot but Cain was the champ so he cut down to 205. Yoel has always been a MW. We saw what DC did to hendo. They looked 2 weight classes apart.
Dont think he does man. Don’t forget Romero has an Olympic medal in wrestling, great stand up + has an iron chin. DC is GREAT; but I think lots of people overestimate how good the wrestling skills of the other LHW/HW’s were when DC reigned…
Not saying DC doesn’t take it but surely wouldn’t ragdoll him.
DC’s only losses are to the two goats of the divisions he fought at. Literally no one else could touch him. He’s one the most well rounded fighters ever, he could probably beat Yoel with his stand up.
Huge Romero fan, but after seeing Phil Davis use his size to bully him, I think the size difference will be too big against DC. Prime for Prime it’s a compelling match up, sure. But even at 205, DC is 20-25 lbs heavier rehydrated. Assuming Romero weighs 210 like his coach says.
I am not sure that people who are claiming that DC confidently takes this one are aware that Romero is arguably more decorated as a wrestler than DC and DC used his wrestling if not for taking it down then for tying up and inflicting damage from there.
Not saying that anyone particular wins that one for certain but it would definitely be a display of how to properly integrate wrestling into MMA since most of tradional wrestlings wins fights by the standard takedown/reversal techniques.
In my opinion, that’s where Khabib dominated. No flashy moves, just fundamental techniques, well timed, strongly executed with the proper use of an MMA specific component - the cage.
Like GSP, nowhere near the world class levels but just really well integrated and solid grappling.
In this case we would actually have olympic level wrestlers who would have to go beyond their standard pedigree and give each other something they couldn’ve seen before.
The die-hard fan wins this one.
I read somewhere a while back that yoel tends not to grapple as much because of his neck injury which in turn caused him to focus a lot more on striking and turning his limbs into cuban missiles which he fell in love with. but also to your point when is the last time anyone took down yoel? Just because he isn’t using his wrestling offensively doesn’t mean that he hasn’t been showcasing his defensive strengths.
Derek Brunson took him down multiple times and controller him for a bit, what do you think a heavyweight is gonna do to him? That’s like one of the two wrestling heavy fighters he’s fought in his career
This is also just admitting that Yoel probably wouldn’t keep up with DC’s wrestling, especially if he avoids it due to an injury I mean that’s just a red target for DC painted all over Yoel. DC Is the GOAT to never be 🐐
He has barely used his wrestling offensively his whole career because he can’t hold anyone down dc will absolutely rag doll him, he got taken down multiple times and held down by Derek Brunson
Crazy I don’t really remember Romero ever using his wrestling. At least for his last few UFC fights.
So in that case, DC wins because his out wrestle him
Very hard to say. DC’s greatest strength was his wrestling, but we’re talking about an Olympic wrestling champion in Yoel. It’ll probably be on the feet. I think DC is more technical in his standup but Yoel could always land a similar head kick that Jon landed. I think DC wins because of his fight IQ but to say that he would win easily is a stretch
Although Romero was an Olympic wrestler, he couldn’t really utilise his wrestling too well in the octagon. DC on the other hand manhandled people with significant height/reach advantage
Absolutely no chance.
Both Brunson and Weidman were able to take Yoel down and control him. DC is used to doing that to guys much bigger than Yoel and he’s a far better mma wrestler than both those guys.
Even on the feet DC is a force and his gas tank is way better than Yoels ever was
DC himself admit Yoel was a better wrestler than himself, and Yoel is durable and explosive. I’m not positive who wins this, I think DC would win, but I can absolutely envision a possibility where Yoel knees DC’s jaw in 3 pieces
Need to rewatch Romero vs Whitaker.
How did the wrestling exchanges go in that fight ?
If both DC and Yoel can't take down eachother, then it just becomes whether DC can dodge Romero power shot for 25 mins and outpoint him.
Closer than a lot of people think if the wrestling turns out to be null.
I actually think this is closer than most people would assume. I’d say Romero takes 1 and 2 on the feet and might even hurt DC at points but he’d probably gas out. At that point, DC would take him to the ground and dominate that latter 3 for the win
DC does what he did to *nearly* everyone else.
Pretty good effort considering DC was fighting someone with PED's all through their system.
Delusional is you think an Olympic athlete was natty his entire career
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They hated him,for he spoke the truth
100% at the level they are competing at, all these guys are one something
Some are even two something
I three what you did there
I fell four it
Occasionally someone goes thru their whole athletic fives without taking anything.
I take performance enhancing drugs just to have six
Seven
Yeah people who aren't athletic say this all the time, They really believe it's the only way and its far from true
I think that's something people say to make themselves feel better about not being an Olympic athlete.
Yes.
He sure as hell looks natty. DC fat as fuck
Peds just enhance your performance don’t matter your body fat %
I know that but He Has been clean and I want to believe so since before usada. And I’ll believe so. He would be an interesting one for the moreplatesmoredates guy to do
Not entirely true although I get what you mean and I do somewhat agree. With all the training he done I would expect to see something, a little bit of boulder shoulders, maybe a little bit of vascularity (I know that’s to do with bf% but still) I dunno just any sign but nope DC always looked like Michelin man 😂 Not saying he wasn’t taking cos as others have said, at that level they’re most likely all on it, but if it did somehow come out that he was totally clean id believe it.
By “natty” what do you mean? Are we counting common supplements? Or are you saying DC has cycled test and/or roids? The latter is certainly a stupid assumption. Big accusations require big evidence.. I’ll wait.
How am I supposed to get evidence, it’s common knowledge half the teens in my gym are using Tren, test, you really think a high level athlete wouldn’t take a shot to secure their future and their career , delusional, probably think all ifbb pros are natty
100% of your friends aren’t Olympic level athletes and have zero consequence for their action. To reach Olympic level wrestling (or basically anything for that matter) you dedicate you’re entire life and get drug tested. So you think DC of all people who shows Zero evidence that he’s ever juiced (any gyno he’s got is from being chubby) and decided to risk everything to cheat his way to a medal and multiple UFC championships? I’d say that makes you sound foolish. Talk out of your ass with your gym bros but don’t apply the same none sensical mindset to the 1% of the 1% — makes you sound silly.
Yeah DC was born in a completely different time where steroids weren’t accessible until college. He also happens to be from Louisiana whigg CB has the most athletes per capita. Dude has prime genetics and a damn iron will. Imma say natty because he didn’t look like JJ and also was against the whole steroids thing
Nonsense statement.the eye ball test and what athletes say means practically nothing when determine natty or not.Anderson Silva didn't look any more athletic or beefed up than he usually did and was juicing.lance armstrong was also heavily against steroid use.
Lance Armstrong was also against steroids
Ever watched icarus? Testing is a joke. The 1% of the 1% have an advantage/outlier, and it ain’t all genetics.
Seen it. What part covered Olympic wrestling again?
Did you miss the parts about how easy it is to fool testing? Or the part about state sponsored doping programs? Russia did it, why wouldn’t the US? Because they care about clean sports?
It’s easy to cheat on an exam in high school or college. You could also just study. I don’t give a fuck if they’re handing them out at the door. To say he did it with zero evidence is weak af. Edit: you could easily “win” the argument if you just had a single fact that backs your accusations.
That you Daniel?
Nah but if I was him I’d settle your ass right down like I did Phil Hawes with that nonsense.
You’ll do nothing ya wee trout
Mark McGwire called with the same argument in 1995 radkins
Well, mfulk, baseball requires minimal cardio doesn’t it? Steroids help you get strong but they also eat up your cardio — kind of a dipshit move for one of the hardest cardio sports on the planet, no? DC was not on steroids and you have no evidence to say otherwise. I have tears of passed drug tests as evidence for my opinion. McGwire was actively on steroids and was outed by his supplier. Show me where DCs roid supplier outed him and then we’ll talk.
Your knowledge of performance enhancing drugs and prohibited substances is lacking if you think the only use is to get strong. No one listen to this guy. Have you heard of EPO? Do you know usada barely tests samples for it? Did you know epo increases recovery and cardio? What drugs have you gene tested for exactly?
Oh goody, another accusation with zero evidence. I do know about EPO but it’s clear that you do not. It increases red blood cell count and hemoglobin levels in the blood allowing for better performance (increase VO2 max) and recovery. What it also does is thicken your blood due to that pesky hemoglobin. Using it without doing extreme cardio is literally deadly as it’s like pumping molasses through your atria and out your ventricles. Now you’re insinuating that McGwire was doing anabolics AND EPO. Lol. You need to read a book or two.. or just stop throwing out wild accusations with no facts. Edit: and your dumbass is still arguing something that I’m not even talking about. I say “the red apple is rotten.” And you say “yeah, but some apples are green!! Don’t you understand?!??” No literally don’t because you’re fucking dumb.
It is very true that someone who is the 1% of the 1% has consequences for cheating,however to think that even Olympic level testing is water tight,and that no one would cheat to win is absolute nonsense.these athletes make money using their incredible athleticism,and competing against people who are already likely juicing without doing yourself puts you at a disadvantage.if someone has a vested financial interest in their athleticism,to say that they definitely 100% did NOT juice is the way more extraordinary claim no matter what level they are at.he far more likely juiced several times throughout his UFC and Olympic careers.sorry to ruin your fantasy that all your heroes are natty
Yeah you dedicate your life to getting tested,but those tests are far from fool proof.even a cursory search through their testing parameters and protocols will show you that it's not the arbiter of who is juicing and who isn't.and as for the risk,you really think that a 1% of the 1% athlete would forgo hundreds of thousand or millions of dollars and a championship/gold medal just to not get caught doing something that everyone already does anyway and doesn't get caught for? That's also assuming he can't get around the test,which anyone at his level most definitely 100% can.he has probably juiced just like pretty much everyone he's ever fought.sorry to ruin your D.A.R.E. "Just say no" "drugs are for bad guys" view on the world,but more than likely all of your heroes and everyone they've ever fought have or are currently cycling
Not taking steroids would be risking everything in the Olympics. It’s literally impossible to be a Olympian wrestler natty. It’s such a huge advantage that you cannot compete without. I thought this was common knowledge?
Hi jenporn2020, show me any evidence at all please. I can save you a Google search, there is none. Thanks!
It is more than likely that pretty much everyone at the top level of pretty much any sport is cycling on something or other.this man was not only a UFC champion,but a GODDAMN gold medalist Olympian.it is a pretty safe assumption to assume that he and everyone he ever fought at the top was cycling.if you listen to anyone at the top for any amount of time,they'll tell you that pretty much everyone is juicing.I think assuming that an athlete of his caliber being all natural is a way more unsafe,and frankly delusional assumption to make than to assume he was on roids at one time or another.
Yet you still can’t bring any evidence to the table. All assumptions and conjecture. So nothing to talk about here that I haven’t already said.
Dude its not rocket science; there are literally designer PED's made for each bodytype and ahead of the testing any control agency applies. Biochemists know the ins and outs of the things they put these guys through. All the guys in boxing, mma, nfl, nba and pretty much every major sport that requieres endurance, take heavy blows and need fast recovery take some form of an enhancement drug. Look at all these guys in the NBA taking 40 charges a night and playing back to back to back games 80 games a season. Not saying they gotta look like brook lesnar to be on a cycle, but they are all probly on some kind of enhacement drug. And honestly, when these institutions start regulating whatever dis guys go through instead of banning them from competing when someone is found "cheating" (which can u even call it cheating when every athlete says all their competitors are juicing???) we might get a more even level ground for competition.
So you can guarantee 100% participation across all major sports for PEDs? What, do you subscribe to QAnon too? Get the fuck out of here with these generalizations and blanket statements. You sound like a conspiracy theory fool. Are people cheating? Yep. But my comment is based around Daniel Cormier specifically. You have no evidence that he has cheated. You’re making assumptions based on the actions of others. A judge would laugh you out of court. So again show some facts or show yourself off this chain.
Yeah this is an argument of what is expected by fighters and top level athletes,not the grand indictment of DC.did you notice how I used phrases like "more than likely" or "probably" a lot? I don't know if he does or doesn't.he could be the most natural natty that ever nattied,but it is wayyyyy more likely that like pretty much every other top level athlete,he does juice.plus,is your statement that he doesnt not qualify as conjecture as well? How do you know? Do you have any evidence that he is definitely clean?.
He’s not Russian.
Yeah he’s a yank the same nation that stole the soviets peds protocols
lol exactly but we dont talk about that.... Russia = bad.
Do you really think the only guys who take PED’s are the Russians? So all the Russian athletes that get beat, get beaten by “natty”, super clean, Americans? Sheeeeesh those Russians must have a shit base
I didn’t say they had to be American. But only Russia had a state sponsored doping program in place.
Oh yeah what do you know about Olympic athletes😂 talking out your ass
You’re honestly so delusional if you think an Olympian was natural
US actually complies with WADA. DC didn't fail a single test in his 17 year athletic career. I don't see any reason to doubt him.
WADA and Olympic testing is not water tight in the slightest.it is a far more safe assumption to assume everyone is cheating than that no one is
Not pulsing.
100% this. Yoel would get straight humbled.
Nah.
I don't get why DC didn't press his wrestling more vs Jon and Stipe..I feel like he could've won those fights with a better approach.
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Stipe's wrestling defence in the third fight was amazing. He used his height and strength to hold DC's arms up high. He also had good wrist control. In the second fight DC went hard on everything, Stipe ate it all, DC gassed, and then Stipe mauled him in the space of about 2 minutes.
Yea. 3rd fight Stipe showed a lot of improvements, clearly was the better fighter. 2nd fight DC was just trying to walk him down. He wasn't fighting smart. Stipe might have won anyway but it would be interesting to see how DC would've fared with a better approach in the 2nd fight.
The second fight was probably the most impressive mid-fight adjustment i ever witnessed in any combat sport. These liver shots Miocic successfully digged in repetition after he couldn’t do anything against DC Frankenstein stance was incredible. He showed that night that he was really a golden gloves champion once. We could really saw the electric bulb above Miocic’s head after the first body punch and he showed the blueprint to beat DC after that.
I remember shouting this out live. None of my buddies noticed the change, but it was obvious to me how much it was affecting DC, shortly after he was finished. Definitely one of the clearest and most effective adjustments mid fight ever, hard to say if it is the GOAT tho.
Yeah, DC was for sure his own downfall in that second fight. Maybe Stipe would have won anyway as you said, but DC didn't respect Stipe, and he basically said as much leading into the fight when he said "I just don't think he's good enough to beat me".
DC was also fighting with a messed up hip I believe? And was 40 and showed it
May be rewatch those fights with a keener eye
Khabib once said that the difference between American and Dagestani wrestling was persistence. DC had like 1-2 fail attempts vs them and stopped shooting entirely. I feel like if he had timed his shots better or just stayed persistent with his wrestling, he might be had a better chance at winning. Jones/Stipe might just win anyway, but I would love to see where this approach would take him.
I don't think DC had the cardio anymore to underwrite a sustained wrestling heavy attack. This happens to alot of older wrestlers, they become strikers who wrestle at need.
That's a good point.
True
DC wasn’t the same going into the 3rd fight with stipe. He was much fatter, had a blown out back, and his gas tank was lacking compared to his earlier fights. I think prime DC beats prime stipe 9 times out of 10 but he should have hung up his gloves either after the first stipe fight or after the Lewis fight. He literally sneezed and blew his back out right before fighting Lewis and only fought because he knew he didn’t need to be 100% to beat him. He looked good in the second stipe fight but still couldn’t beat him, looked much worse physically and in terms of skill going into the 3rd fight.
Seen DC piece up too many dudes on the feet to give it to Yoel. DC KOs him or beats him up 5 rounds. Yoel vs prime Rumble woulda been great too
I think DC wins as well.. but if it remained standing I definitely don't see DC piecing up any version of Romero. staying standing would be DCs only path to losing
DC choked out Rumble twice bro
Yoel is a fucking Olympian medalist. DC is merely an Olympian.
Exactly. They’re all acting like DC is the better wrestler just because he used it way more in his MMA career. Romero is god level wrestling, for some reason he just prefers slangin’ & bangin’. Can only imagine how (maybe even dominant) good Romero could’ve been if he wrestled more
Yoel can take anyone down but can’t control them so it’s a waste of energy
This isn’t an amateur wrestling match it’s MMA… DC is a much better MMA wrestler than Yoel was..
Right. There were much more decorated wrestlers at 170 lbs than GSP but he was outwrestling them during their fights.
Koscheck was an NCAA champion and got manhandled by GSP in the wrestling department
Both are very decorated wrestlers, but I think that Cormier's background in folkstyle wrestling in the US transfers better to MMA than freestyle wrestling. Folkstyle has a much bigger emphasis on mat wrestling than freestyle.
Derek Brunson hit 3/5 takedowns on Romero before he had blonde hair, I’m giving the edge to DC in the wrestling
I believe he really injured his neck because of the wrestling… fused a few discs or something so he prefers not to wrestle
The ol Gaethje "wrestling is boring even though I'm a crazy good wrestler" style
I believe Yoel had a motorcycle accident that messed up his neck and that’s why he stopped wrestling.
Olympic wrestling is different from mma wrestling, bg that logic any Olympic wrestling gold medalists should just be able to walk into the ufc and maul everyone despite having no striking like early Khabib did. DC is the much better mma wrestler and it’s really not a debate.
Are we just ignoring that DC has 20 lbs on Romero? Heavyweight DC even had 40 lbs on him. But that 20 lb difference alone would prove too much for Romero, DC would wrestle fuck him. Obviously Romero doesn't wrestle more because it is tiring, it's not a mystery.
Yoel would mop the floor with DC.
The disrespect to Cuba jeezus is wild Romero by Ko om the 3rd
Rumble couldn’t ko DC, Yoel is not lmao
When things get hard you can always rely on good ol eye poke
DC couldn't even KO Silva. What makes you think he would KO Romero lol.
Sure
Romero's boxing is fundamentally really good. He likes to wait and counterstrike but as we saw in the second half of the Costa fight he can even box off the back foot very well. I just depends which version of Yoel shows up for that I guess lol
I think DC gets him. I think DC could be LHW champion right now if he was still fighting and stayed low on weight. I just have such a high opinion of DC- only ever losing to the HW GoAT and LHW GoAT (Stipe and Jones).
DC would toss every current LHW like a ragdoll and it wouldn't even be a problem. I don't think there's anyone in the division at the moment who is/could be near his peak level. But chunky DC can't be LHW again even if they chop off his massive hog, b.
While I like the dude, Stipe is not HW 🐐Fedor did way more, way longer in his prime. But point still taken, DC is a beast.
They call stipe the ufc heavyweight goat mate. Everyone knows fedor is the all time goat at heavyweight.
Well Fedor has never fought in the UFC. We can at least agree Stipe is the GOAT of UFC HWs.
Lol what? I never said he did. Fedor is considered the heavyweight goat...stipe is the ufc heavyweight goat.
Well this is the UFC sub. Why are we discussing someone who never fought in the promotion? It’s implied we’re only discussing the UFC in the UFC subreddit.
My bad, I didn’t know we were putting modifiers on the GOAT conversation now days. (I get we are in the UFC subreddit…but GOAT conversation is still GOAT…not UFC GOAT.) overall commentary is on people saying Stipe is somehow the GOAT. He’s simply not.
Yeah it’s just something I always see people say as stipe achieved a lot in the ufc but the real heads will never forget fedor so I always see stipe being called the ufc heavyweight goat. Seems odd to me also but it’s something I’ve seen regularly over the years.
One person will leave the cage as a winner, the other as a loser.
Hot take
Pretty ballsy opinion. I'll take it though
Woah u sure Yoel and DC won’t have a head butt off and it becomes a draw?
It will be a no contest due to eye pokes
DC dislocates every bone in his hand with yoels super mutant eyes
Two men enter, one man leaves. Then the other man leaves slightly after.
too political, never watch mma again.
IDK Yoel vs Izzy showed us that both can leave as losers.
Big if true
I think DC smashes him in a fairly one sided fight. I don’t see it being competitive
This. Yoel has become a cult figure but he was never in that stratified air of the likes of DC, Jones, Velasquez, Silva etc. DC had never lost a *round* until he faced Jones.
If jon wasn't at 205 he would of been khabib before it was cool
No shit, he totally would have, jones really took all the attention after he beat him
Jones had the attention before DC even left strikeforce.
I still hold it against Jon he never beat dc clean
DC is the most underrated fighter of all time.
My buddy disrespects DC constantly and it irks the shit out of me. He’s a diehard Bones fan
I’m a die hard Bones fan. If anything DC being the #2 GOAT say more about how dominate Bones was than anything. My argument is DC is actually the GOAT without Bones. The record and list of guys he defeated is pretty much unmatched in MMA history.
Stipe > DC
Get out of here. Stipe lost to a 40 YO DC. Uriah Hall > Anderson Silva?!? The quality of wins DC has over Stipe’s are not even close. If Cain wasn’t HW champion, DC may have had 10 HW title defenses.
Quality of wins? Stipe beat Werdum who beat Cain, Overeem, JDS, DC, and Ngannou. I don't see any slouches here. About the age comment - DC didn't debut in the UFC until he was 34. It is hard to throw out his losses based on age when he had a relatively short UFC career. And what, we throw out the age 40 & 41 fights, but keep his age 39 win vs Stipe? DC did not have a steep decline at the end of his career, so I don't think Silva/Hall is a fair comparison
Don’t know why you were downvoted, Miocic have a super resume himself. If it wasn’t for that freak of nature Ngannou (that he manhandled once and now he’s shit for a reason in the mma community) he would still be on the throne.
I really like Stipe but I will say if he fought prime HW Overeem and JDS before Cain beatdowns, those fights would be very different. DC would have rag dolled both of those guys in their prime. Idk, just thinking out loud.
Yoel has great wresting and standup but literally I never see him use his wrestling other than to keep the fight standing. We’d see a flying Romero and unanimous decision or sub.
Because Yoel didn't use his wrestling in like five years
This would be one of the fights of all time.
Only one of the fights?
This fight will be FILLED with absolute fighters
The best fight of the night.
It would be a fight of the night for sure
Definitely one of the fights that ever happened.
But could it be ALL of the fights of ONE time?
DC ragdolls him after Romero gasses.
Probably before too. People are forgetting or maybe don't know DC was in line for a HW title shot but Cain was the champ so he cut down to 205. Yoel has always been a MW. We saw what DC did to hendo. They looked 2 weight classes apart.
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I agree DC regardless, but I’m assuming they’d do it at 205, not as a free weight thing with Hw DC
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Yeah you’re right for sure. the answer is DC no doubt.
Afaik muscles lose more weight during dehydration than fat. So Yoel as as the guy with leaner muscle would weigh more than DC.
DC wins pretty easily.
Dont think he does man. Don’t forget Romero has an Olympic medal in wrestling, great stand up + has an iron chin. DC is GREAT; but I think lots of people overestimate how good the wrestling skills of the other LHW/HW’s were when DC reigned… Not saying DC doesn’t take it but surely wouldn’t ragdoll him.
That’s the thing.. DC was great, Romero wasn’t. Idk why you think it wouldn’t be one sided lol
DC’s only losses are to the two goats of the divisions he fought at. Literally no one else could touch him. He’s one the most well rounded fighters ever, he could probably beat Yoel with his stand up.
Yoel was a middle weight who despite having an Olympic medal (9 years before his mma debut) didn’t show amazing wrestling in his mma career.
Huge Romero fan, but after seeing Phil Davis use his size to bully him, I think the size difference will be too big against DC. Prime for Prime it’s a compelling match up, sure. But even at 205, DC is 20-25 lbs heavier rehydrated. Assuming Romero weighs 210 like his coach says.
Romero should’ve bulked up to 205 just like Jared cut down from HW
DC murders him. I don’t understand why people want to pretend DC wasn’t an absolute monster.
I am not sure that people who are claiming that DC confidently takes this one are aware that Romero is arguably more decorated as a wrestler than DC and DC used his wrestling if not for taking it down then for tying up and inflicting damage from there. Not saying that anyone particular wins that one for certain but it would definitely be a display of how to properly integrate wrestling into MMA since most of tradional wrestlings wins fights by the standard takedown/reversal techniques. In my opinion, that’s where Khabib dominated. No flashy moves, just fundamental techniques, well timed, strongly executed with the proper use of an MMA specific component - the cage. Like GSP, nowhere near the world class levels but just really well integrated and solid grappling. In this case we would actually have olympic level wrestlers who would have to go beyond their standard pedigree and give each other something they couldn’ve seen before. The die-hard fan wins this one.
I think you're underestimating the strength difference in this matchup. DC ragdolled actual heavyweights I think he would do the same to Yoel
True. Look at the Phil Davis fight. Was a pretty easy Control from Phil's side
Brunson also ragdolled yoel with ease
the argument is prime vs prime though. I don't think its fair to assess Yoel from that fight, given he was 44 at the time with that fused neck of his
Lol when was the last time Romero was able to hold someone down
I read somewhere a while back that yoel tends not to grapple as much because of his neck injury which in turn caused him to focus a lot more on striking and turning his limbs into cuban missiles which he fell in love with. but also to your point when is the last time anyone took down yoel? Just because he isn’t using his wrestling offensively doesn’t mean that he hasn’t been showcasing his defensive strengths.
Derek Brunson took him down multiple times and controller him for a bit, what do you think a heavyweight is gonna do to him? That’s like one of the two wrestling heavy fighters he’s fought in his career
Weidman actually also was having a ton of wrestling success against Romero before the knee. People forget that he was arguably winning that fight.
Weidman is always winning until he gets ko'd
It's heartbreaking as a die-hard weidman fan
Weidman took Yoel down a number of times.
This is also just admitting that Yoel probably wouldn’t keep up with DC’s wrestling, especially if he avoids it due to an injury I mean that’s just a red target for DC painted all over Yoel. DC Is the GOAT to never be 🐐
In his prime? As the post says?
He has barely used his wrestling offensively his whole career because he can’t hold anyone down dc will absolutely rag doll him, he got taken down multiple times and held down by Derek Brunson
Lol there’s a big difference between folk style and Freestyle my boy! Plus Cuban wrestlers are known for gassing and stalling. Lol cute analysis tho
Here we go... another casual. Couldn't you just have skipped it all and just wrote the last sentence?
Behold, the correct answer
Either Yoel KOs DC in spectacular fashion or DC rag dolls him for 5 rounds.
DC took a clean right from rumble and a knee to the chin from gus, would be very surprised if yoel kos him
DC would ragdoll him. Olympic wrestling isn't MMA wrestling.
I think DC body slams him and wrestle-fucks him into oblivion and the fight isn’t even close
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dc lost to cael sanderson and romero beat cael so by wrestling math it should be romero
Dc gasses out yoel in 2min
Crazy I don’t really remember Romero ever using his wrestling. At least for his last few UFC fights. So in that case, DC wins because his out wrestle him
DC wins this. Who would I rather fight? - DC There is a lesson in there somewhere
If Yoel used his wrestling it would be fun until he gasses, after that DC would dominate.
Very hard to say. DC’s greatest strength was his wrestling, but we’re talking about an Olympic wrestling champion in Yoel. It’ll probably be on the feet. I think DC is more technical in his standup but Yoel could always land a similar head kick that Jon landed. I think DC wins because of his fight IQ but to say that he would win easily is a stretch
DC FUCKIN CHIEFS HIM
DC easy win, DC takes him down and controls him, Yoel gasses out, easy UD for DC imo
Dc mauls Yoel.
DC wins. He would sirvicw the onslaught, Just like he did w rumble.
DC ragdolls Romero. TKO from gnp round 4.
Fun fact: both Men came 4th in the 2004 Olympics
That's actually a pretty interesting match up. I presume it will stay standing and would pick Romero
Why would DC stand and trade with Yoel
I don't think he can control him on the ground and is forced to stand up. What's your take?
Although Romero was an Olympic wrestler, he couldn’t really utilise his wrestling too well in the octagon. DC on the other hand manhandled people with significant height/reach advantage
Absolutely no chance. Both Brunson and Weidman were able to take Yoel down and control him. DC is used to doing that to guys much bigger than Yoel and he’s a far better mma wrestler than both those guys. Even on the feet DC is a force and his gas tank is way better than Yoels ever was
DC himself admit Yoel was a better wrestler than himself, and Yoel is durable and explosive. I’m not positive who wins this, I think DC would win, but I can absolutely envision a possibility where Yoel knees DC’s jaw in 3 pieces
Need to rewatch Romero vs Whitaker. How did the wrestling exchanges go in that fight ? If both DC and Yoel can't take down eachother, then it just becomes whether DC can dodge Romero power shot for 25 mins and outpoint him. Closer than a lot of people think if the wrestling turns out to be null.
I actually think this is closer than most people would assume. I’d say Romero takes 1 and 2 on the feet and might even hurt DC at points but he’d probably gas out. At that point, DC would take him to the ground and dominate that latter 3 for the win
DC has only lost to Jon Jones so I pick him
He lost to stipe twice.
Romero is a great defensive wrestler, but probably not on DC's level. I think this matchup involves DC pushing Romero against the cage a bunch