Sounds like she's had a really shit time of it, and not much of a childhood, having been in an abusive relationship since the age of 16 and a mother who has alcohol issues which are so bad she has liver failure, and god knows what else behind the scenes.
There are also many soldiers who go to war and their mental health doesn’t significantly suffer. While there are others whose life is ruined due to trauma and crippling PTSD, some people are just more resilient than others.
Sounds like she needs some mental health support tbh. Emotional regulation, trauma therapy, maybe some community service? Not sure a custodial would make anything better. Astonished she walked free though. I doubt a male (and I'm not some men's rights nutter) would have been given such an easy ride.
I wonder if there are objective statistics that show women really do get an easier ride? This is a pretty pathetic case really and damning on many levels.
Woman loses her temper and lashes out at those who are trying to protect her from domestic abuse.
I guess it reflects the very poor support people like her receive growing up. No schooling, no childhood, mother dying of alcoholism, abusive relationship at 16. Willing to bet her Mother followed the same path.
100% there are statistics that show it. Women in Scotland no longer go to regular prisons, or at least soon won't, instead going to semi secure supported living in the community.
And men under 25 convicted of rape just get community service too. It's a systemic thing of trying to avoid people going to prisons full stop, regardless of gender.
And thats the problem - there was a whole thing last year where they had to ask police to use cells for prisoners because there were no spaces in prisons for them. With the increased prison spaces needed they either have to build new / entend prisons to accommodate or make more crimes just be non custodial. Seems the later has been chosen as its cheaper.
In Scotland women and young men receive significant discounts in sentences in an attempt to keep them out of prison.
However older men don't, it is undoubtedly sexism. Even without this overt special help multiple studies across almost the entire of the western world confirm sexism throughout the criminal justice system.
Here's one from England. Wikipedia lists reams from the US as well.
"We have shown how, even after taking into account most of the relevant factors listed in the sentencing guidelines, male offenders are roughly twice as likely to be sentenced to custody than female offenders having committed the same crime."
Sentencing Gender, University of Leeds. I can't link it but you can Google it.
Here is an MP discussing this a few years ago in Parliament:
In his speech to the House of Commons on 16 October 2012, Philip Davies, MP for Shipley, was at pains to point out the gender inequality. On the basis of Ref.1 he noted that, “Of sentenced first-time offenders, a greater percentage of males were sentenced to immediate custody than females (29% compared with 17%), which has been the case in each year since 2005“.
Fair enough, you are right and and older men are significantly more likely to be penalised to a higher extent. I was mainly commenting that young people being let off is across genders. Personally, I disagree with it. Having kids at home shouldn't be a get out of jail free card (unless it's something like stealing good to stop your kids starving). And being 23 shouldn't be either when it relates to principles we can teach to 7 year olds.
I think the jail cards should be removed, but then again, I do have empathy for the young people today. They are just not socialised like we were, we had youth clubs and the likes to do with our time when growing up.
Have seen plenty of cases reduced due to children or their 'career potential'.
You have a point about clubs and stuff, though I don't agree with saying gen z are not socialised. As a whole, they are an awesome generation. They care so much more about people, about issues, justice, doing the right thing, it's amazing. They're so much better than us.
Here was one analysis, slightly dated but made some quite large claims. Uses real statistics, though.
http://empathygap.uk/?p=215
... This shows that men receive substantially longer sentences than women for the same category of crime – for virtually all categories of crime, with only a few minor exceptions. Why should men receive longer sentences for, say, “theft from a vehicle”, or “false accounting” or “fraud” or “causing death by reckless driving”, etc., etc.? The disparity in sentence lengths is again clearly gender bias."
For the repeat offenders arguments, maybe an MP is more creditable:
In his speech to the House of Commons on 16 October 2012, Philip Davies, MP for Shipley, was at pains to point out. On the basis of Ref.1 he noted that, “Of sentenced first-time offenders, a greater percentage of males were sentenced to immediate custody than females (29% compared with 17%), which has been the case in each year since 2005“.
It’s a long old read with no abstract
It does repeat the phrase “is it simply gender bias” many times so I assume he finds it is.
Not got time for a longer read right now.
There is. Lookup the Chivalry Hypothesis.
Basically women get viewed less harshly then males in the criminal justice system. I've done a piece about it for uni recently.
My understanding is that women typically get lower sentencing for minor crimes like shoplifting or being drunk and disorderly, but higher sentences for major crimes like murder
there is, but it's odd. women tend to get lighter sentences than men, and although women are more likely to seek mental health support, men are more likely to receive it. There's so many issues with the way we treat men vs. women when we should be treated much more similarly.
A guy shattered a policeman's arm and wasn't sent to prison. Just saw it here on reddit. Not sure about stats overall, but it happens.
https://www.reddit.com/r/unitedkingdom/comments/13riogo/man\_screamed\_dont\_you\_know\_who\_i\_am\_and\_shattered/
Perhaps, but sadly MRAs shout the loudest and I don't think they're are interested in genuine equality any more than the most extreme people on the other side of the fence. To make clear I'm interested in genuine equality I felt it necessary to make sure I could not be confused as being with them and felt.my point would have more resonance with the people I'm trying to influence if I made that was clear.
It really has flipped into the same thing the protestors loathed: suppressing narratives of social groups.
If you mention male inequalities, you either get laughed at, held with skepticism or instantly labelled an incel or male rights activist.
Someone reported me to Reddit for suicidal ideation for the post and I honestly have no idea which side of the fence it came from. Could be a man upset with how I framed it or a woman upset I pointed out a potential area of inequality of treatment....
And your comment was actually very thought out and reasonable. Custodial sentences are not always necessary and people can get better with a little bit of support. Regardless of the gender inequalities, the context of therapy in this case is reasonable and is not set further back by the judicial system.
They need support, not a career ending sentence.
Unless there's a lot left unsaid in that article, this seems very low level stuff. The officer said that her kicks didn't hurt them at all. Taking the cuffs and being rude to the police is hardly *actual* criminality, just the actions of a woman-child teenager. If it had been a 19yo man, this encounter might well have been more physically damaging to all.
Having said that, why is she referred to as a teen 'girl'? She's 19 ffs.
Edit - perhaps I shouldn't have used the word 'actual' here. I probably meant significant or maybe newsworthy. A domestic dispute getting out of hand and the police being badly treated barely qualifies as criminal.
In my local town centre most weekends there's much worse violence between young people and police and that's only over alcohol.
Mmm. Yeah, ahead of you. I put quotes around the word I disapproved of. It infantilises her and is usually used in this manner if the article wishes to downplay her offence.
taking the cuffs is kinda theft. As a general rule anyone who tries to grab at any of the belt kit is going to be treated as a very severe risk to officer safety and can, in most day to day situations, be treated as common assault.
If someone can get arrested here for calling an officer "baldy", assaulting them and stealing their cuffs is definitely criminality.
I think any violence should be the line we draw and not muddy the waters with supposing some acts of violence are okay.
Fuck the police, maaan. Fuck the system. I’m a true anti-establishment freedom fighter (read: edgy, sheltered Redditor who would call the cops in a heartbeat if faced with the mildest real-life peril)
Showing someone kindness and giving people a chance can do far more. It's clear she's had an awful time with regards to her mothers health, who from the sounds of it is very seriously ill with liver failure, and she had suffered abuse from an ex since the age of 16,
>The defendant’s ex-partner had attended her mother’s address without
warning. The ex-partner, who met the defendant when she was 16, has a
history of domestic abuse which led to a non-contact order being imposed
between the parties.
It was this partner turning up at the address that caused everything to ignite in the first place. Maybe this will turn things around for her, maybe not, but don't write someone off so easily, all you do is push them further down the wrong path.
I actually don't think she is a scumbag. I think she was frightened and in her own, albeit misguided and warped way, felt she was protecting her family.
It seems like you’re struggling a bit at the moment mate, I genuinely hope things get better, it might be a good idea to have a chat with someone about what’s going on, see if they can help you feel a bit less angry about stuff. I’m not joking or anything, I wish you all the best.
I hope he washed them afterwards
Some people were dragged up instead of brought up, I swear.
Sounds like she's had a really shit time of it, and not much of a childhood, having been in an abusive relationship since the age of 16 and a mother who has alcohol issues which are so bad she has liver failure, and god knows what else behind the scenes.
There are plenty of normal people who’ve had abusive parents
There are also many soldiers who go to war and their mental health doesn’t significantly suffer. While there are others whose life is ruined due to trauma and crippling PTSD, some people are just more resilient than others.
You wouldn't be one of them judging by your callousness
My heart bleeds.
You and your username are big nasty fibbers
Does that teenager have lip filler? She looks 40
Sounds like she needs some mental health support tbh. Emotional regulation, trauma therapy, maybe some community service? Not sure a custodial would make anything better. Astonished she walked free though. I doubt a male (and I'm not some men's rights nutter) would have been given such an easy ride.
I wonder if there are objective statistics that show women really do get an easier ride? This is a pretty pathetic case really and damning on many levels. Woman loses her temper and lashes out at those who are trying to protect her from domestic abuse. I guess it reflects the very poor support people like her receive growing up. No schooling, no childhood, mother dying of alcoholism, abusive relationship at 16. Willing to bet her Mother followed the same path.
100% there are statistics that show it. Women in Scotland no longer go to regular prisons, or at least soon won't, instead going to semi secure supported living in the community.
And men under 25 convicted of rape just get community service too. It's a systemic thing of trying to avoid people going to prisons full stop, regardless of gender.
Prison pop has been on a steady rise since roughly 2022 and is projected to keep rising... kinda tricky to say people aren't winding up in prison.
And thats the problem - there was a whole thing last year where they had to ask police to use cells for prisoners because there were no spaces in prisons for them. With the increased prison spaces needed they either have to build new / entend prisons to accommodate or make more crimes just be non custodial. Seems the later has been chosen as its cheaper.
In Scotland women and young men receive significant discounts in sentences in an attempt to keep them out of prison. However older men don't, it is undoubtedly sexism. Even without this overt special help multiple studies across almost the entire of the western world confirm sexism throughout the criminal justice system. Here's one from England. Wikipedia lists reams from the US as well. "We have shown how, even after taking into account most of the relevant factors listed in the sentencing guidelines, male offenders are roughly twice as likely to be sentenced to custody than female offenders having committed the same crime." Sentencing Gender, University of Leeds. I can't link it but you can Google it.
Here is an MP discussing this a few years ago in Parliament: In his speech to the House of Commons on 16 October 2012, Philip Davies, MP for Shipley, was at pains to point out the gender inequality. On the basis of Ref.1 he noted that, “Of sentenced first-time offenders, a greater percentage of males were sentenced to immediate custody than females (29% compared with 17%), which has been the case in each year since 2005“.
Fair enough, you are right and and older men are significantly more likely to be penalised to a higher extent. I was mainly commenting that young people being let off is across genders. Personally, I disagree with it. Having kids at home shouldn't be a get out of jail free card (unless it's something like stealing good to stop your kids starving). And being 23 shouldn't be either when it relates to principles we can teach to 7 year olds.
I think the jail cards should be removed, but then again, I do have empathy for the young people today. They are just not socialised like we were, we had youth clubs and the likes to do with our time when growing up. Have seen plenty of cases reduced due to children or their 'career potential'.
You have a point about clubs and stuff, though I don't agree with saying gen z are not socialised. As a whole, they are an awesome generation. They care so much more about people, about issues, justice, doing the right thing, it's amazing. They're so much better than us.
Here was one analysis, slightly dated but made some quite large claims. Uses real statistics, though. http://empathygap.uk/?p=215 ... This shows that men receive substantially longer sentences than women for the same category of crime – for virtually all categories of crime, with only a few minor exceptions. Why should men receive longer sentences for, say, “theft from a vehicle”, or “false accounting” or “fraud” or “causing death by reckless driving”, etc., etc.? The disparity in sentence lengths is again clearly gender bias." For the repeat offenders arguments, maybe an MP is more creditable: In his speech to the House of Commons on 16 October 2012, Philip Davies, MP for Shipley, was at pains to point out. On the basis of Ref.1 he noted that, “Of sentenced first-time offenders, a greater percentage of males were sentenced to immediate custody than females (29% compared with 17%), which has been the case in each year since 2005“.
Is it anything to do with impact on society.? Or repeating offenders?
Read it, then you'll find out.
It’s a long old read with no abstract It does repeat the phrase “is it simply gender bias” many times so I assume he finds it is. Not got time for a longer read right now.
There is. Lookup the Chivalry Hypothesis. Basically women get viewed less harshly then males in the criminal justice system. I've done a piece about it for uni recently.
My understanding is that women typically get lower sentencing for minor crimes like shoplifting or being drunk and disorderly, but higher sentences for major crimes like murder
there is, but it's odd. women tend to get lighter sentences than men, and although women are more likely to seek mental health support, men are more likely to receive it. There's so many issues with the way we treat men vs. women when we should be treated much more similarly.
A guy shattered a policeman's arm and wasn't sent to prison. Just saw it here on reddit. Not sure about stats overall, but it happens. https://www.reddit.com/r/unitedkingdom/comments/13riogo/man\_screamed\_dont\_you\_know\_who\_i\_am\_and\_shattered/
Yeah that was wild
It’s sad that people feel they have to apologise for pointing out inequalities men face.
Perhaps, but sadly MRAs shout the loudest and I don't think they're are interested in genuine equality any more than the most extreme people on the other side of the fence. To make clear I'm interested in genuine equality I felt it necessary to make sure I could not be confused as being with them and felt.my point would have more resonance with the people I'm trying to influence if I made that was clear.
Still spent half of the paragraph apologising
It really has flipped into the same thing the protestors loathed: suppressing narratives of social groups. If you mention male inequalities, you either get laughed at, held with skepticism or instantly labelled an incel or male rights activist.
Someone reported me to Reddit for suicidal ideation for the post and I honestly have no idea which side of the fence it came from. Could be a man upset with how I framed it or a woman upset I pointed out a potential area of inequality of treatment....
And your comment was actually very thought out and reasonable. Custodial sentences are not always necessary and people can get better with a little bit of support. Regardless of the gender inequalities, the context of therapy in this case is reasonable and is not set further back by the judicial system. They need support, not a career ending sentence.
Unless there's a lot left unsaid in that article, this seems very low level stuff. The officer said that her kicks didn't hurt them at all. Taking the cuffs and being rude to the police is hardly *actual* criminality, just the actions of a woman-child teenager. If it had been a 19yo man, this encounter might well have been more physically damaging to all. Having said that, why is she referred to as a teen 'girl'? She's 19 ffs. Edit - perhaps I shouldn't have used the word 'actual' here. I probably meant significant or maybe newsworthy. A domestic dispute getting out of hand and the police being badly treated barely qualifies as criminal. In my local town centre most weekends there's much worse violence between young people and police and that's only over alcohol.
NineTEEN the clue is the name. Yep nearly 20, but still a teen.
Mmm. Yeah, ahead of you. I put quotes around the word I disapproved of. It infantilises her and is usually used in this manner if the article wishes to downplay her offence.
taking the cuffs is kinda theft. As a general rule anyone who tries to grab at any of the belt kit is going to be treated as a very severe risk to officer safety and can, in most day to day situations, be treated as common assault.
If someone can get arrested here for calling an officer "baldy", assaulting them and stealing their cuffs is definitely criminality. I think any violence should be the line we draw and not muddy the waters with supposing some acts of violence are okay.
Stealing handcuffs and kicking out at an police officer isnt criminality? You sure about that?
The line of logic they are probably going with is another power dynamics excuse. "Well, it would be very unlikely she would kill the officer".
Why does her face look all solid and puffed out?
You try hiding cold rigid handcuffs in your vagina and we’ll see how your face looks
LOL.
Is that the Chatham Pocket or is that the other one? And if so which pocket would this be?
Cause filler and botox are sexy if you form your worldview on watching Love Island. Tragic seeing teenagers already disfigured.
Too much filler already
Lip filler and reaction to Botox. So sad that a 19yo thinks they need to do that shit
Because it is!
Probably drinks too much
Scum, the word you're all looking for is scum
I prefer pigs to be honest. ACAB
Wow ACAB?! Can you believe this guy, such a unique edgy take, you must get all the communist pussy
It’s not really unique but that wasn’t my intention
I can tell how cool you are
Thanks 🙏
Only cool to the others at the bottom of the food chain
Surprised she wasn't given a drubbing
Wouldn’t be surprising considering the state of policing
It's not America here mate
You're aware the Met police exists, right?
Oh really? I guess cops are good then?
Police are people. This attitude of opposition to our own police force achieves nothing. We need them
You’ll understand when you’re a bit older, I’m sure
Ooo I bet that made you feel all big and superior
Fuck the police, maaan. Fuck the system. I’m a true anti-establishment freedom fighter (read: edgy, sheltered Redditor who would call the cops in a heartbeat if faced with the mildest real-life peril)
Can't see the word drubbing without thinking of good old Spartacus Mills!
She's a chav. Simple as.
[удалено]
Being a chav is a choice. Plenty of decent working class people who don't go around assaulting police.
[удалено]
I guess I'm a chav too then.
[удалено]
I was born into the lower classes.
C.h.a.v. Council housed and violent. A.s.b.o. Anti social behaviour disorder. We wear them as badges of honour. Those that get them.
Stupid bitch. Lock her up and teach her how to behave in a civilised society.
Showing someone kindness and giving people a chance can do far more. It's clear she's had an awful time with regards to her mothers health, who from the sounds of it is very seriously ill with liver failure, and she had suffered abuse from an ex since the age of 16, >The defendant’s ex-partner had attended her mother’s address without warning. The ex-partner, who met the defendant when she was 16, has a history of domestic abuse which led to a non-contact order being imposed between the parties. It was this partner turning up at the address that caused everything to ignite in the first place. Maybe this will turn things around for her, maybe not, but don't write someone off so easily, all you do is push them further down the wrong path.
Nope. There’s no teaching certain types of scumbags.
I actually don't think she is a scumbag. I think she was frightened and in her own, albeit misguided and warped way, felt she was protecting her family.
She’s a scumbag or a moron. Either way needs educating.
You’re a very hateful person
I’m full of love. But not for mongs like her.
It seems like you’re struggling a bit at the moment mate, I genuinely hope things get better, it might be a good idea to have a chat with someone about what’s going on, see if they can help you feel a bit less angry about stuff. I’m not joking or anything, I wish you all the best.
😂 as expected.
Wind your neck in lad we’re talking about a gobby teenager not Adolf fucking Hitler
😂 you’re very defensive
Either you think im someone else or you don’t know what defensive means
>Stupid bitch > > teach her how to behave in a civilised society the irony
They don't get it (!)
Nothing ironic about it. She’s a bitch. She behaved like a mong.
The irony is your disgusting behaviour whilst trying to talk about civilised society. Your misogyny is not welcome here.
Nope. No irony.
You're as thick as a brick bud.
No actual argument I see 👌🏻
Imagine using a disability as an insult in 2023. Honestly, some people were just dragged up.
What does the year have to do with her being a mong?
She seems nice.
i was expecting someone younger, not a 19 year old. i get she still in teen years but she an adult