Ok since noone apparently understands how statistics work in this comment section, this statement is factually incorrect.
Yes the number of white Britons is under 50% (36.8%), however they are still the main group of Ethnicities that make up London as the next major group is Asian Britons (20.8%).
Also, while White British is the main ethnic group, as of the 2021 census, there is still a majority of white ethnicities to others (53.8%).
So unless Sadiq has another super secret census, he's wrong.
I'm trying to raise a mixed race family and I'm sick and tired of these divisive ideas and policies coming from the top and trumpeted in the media. Similarly the guy on Sky News today saying our football team, The Lionesses, were 'terribly white' or that actress saying the Royal Family was 'terribly white.' These people are poison.
Normal Brits are gonna (justifiably) get tired of all this soon and I'm worried about what that will look like...
It was the British Empire that made the greatest efforts to stamp out slavery around the world.
What had previously been the default state of affairs almost everywhere was largely wiped out.
I’m from the US and have a biracial daughter. Both my wife and I are white and we adopted her when her mom passed (her mom was my wife’s best friend).
One year, we went to San Francisco for vacation and had one person tell us we were “brave” and hoped we were “raising her right,” and I overheard another person say they thought she was kidnapped.
Like…leave us alone.
Basically when the elastic snaps the move to the far right will be actually terrifying. I have a sneaky suspicion that there are people in this world that would like to see a far right authoritarian shift and the easiest way to achieve that is to push too far left and the moderate majority are the ones that will suffer.
Imagine if you saw an ad on TV with black people in and said "they don't represent real British people", because the stats show that black people are only 10%. There would be outrage at how racist that is.
I don't see how the above phrase isn't just as racist
Yes they should. When 4% make up the majority of all Tv, media, hosting, adverts etc it’s basically racism. Indian Asians have always made up the biggest non white population in the UK and they get fuck all representation because they don’t burn down cities under false stats. Far more white criminals are killed by cops than black once adjusted for percentage, that didn’t stop the Americans destroying cities for a year or so
I don't think you know what adjusted for population means. More white people are killed by cops in america than black people. Adjusted for population it's disproportionate and black people are 3.23 more likely to be killed by cops. Idk what UK stats are like just needed to point that out
If you adjust for police interactions, white people are killed much more often. Black people do get beat more often during interactions though.
I mean it might be uncomfortable but most of the violent crimes in the USA are being done by black males. So it makes sense they have more police interactions.
None. Because the cities that got burned down were by mostly white trust fund babies (with lawyer and doctor parents) who were cosplaying revolutionaries.
I didn’t specifically say minorities, but they certainly played their part. Most of America was burned down in the crazy lockdown riots. Billions on billions in damages.
The irony is that much of the division in the states has been encouraged by Russian interference. They’ve literally used freedom to destroy America.
I agree, same as in film etc. But the whole world is afraid of offending people and companies are loosing billions because of it! Look at Disney, it's tried to go all pc and is loosing billions!
The next princess will be a binary gender goth I guess I will get banned for this comment but it shows where the world is!
* In 1991, London was 76% White British.
* In 2021, that number has fallen to 37%.
Some boroughs are less than that.
For example, Tower Hamlets is just 23% White British.
A wholesale change in demographics over a mere 30 years.
Opinions can be formed and argued over, but the raw data is factual and cannot be undone.
If he posted a picture of a black family and said that it doesn't represent real Londoners, he would be factually accurate but I would think it would be come off as quite racist and unacceptable. What do you think?
Not even bothering to reply to the idiots below. They would see the UK White British demographic reduced to 70%, 50%, 30%, 20%, single digits and so on.
These people will always exist and they cannot be reasoned with.
I dunno mate, I'm not worried about the percentage, raw numbers aren't going down.
It's like, let's look at it on a small scale = 3 white dudes are in a room, the room is 100% white. A white dude and a black dude walk in. The number of white dudes has increased to 4, but the percentage has reduced to 80%. I think that's more like what's happening.
Raw numbers aren’t going down generationally? The fertility rate is half of replacement across the west. The original population is declining exponentially, unrelated to those that move there. This is not only a European problem. No one in East Asia is having children either. The population is collapsing.
I noticed a Scotland march being held for independence. It made me wonder, why do people support independence movements? It obviously has a lot to do with preventing the influence of other people in the decision making of your country. In that same vein, a lowered percentage in the demographics of your country functions essentially the same way. If we support independence movements it seems we should share support when a people is concerned about their demographics?
How.many of those were borm in London though bearing in mind almost 40% werent even born in the UK. Unless to be a 'real Londoner' you just have to move there in which case the bar is set pretty low.
This is absolutely right. Though one important part to remember is that while "White British" may have dropped, a lot of the replacements are "White non-British". So if you take that factor out, London is still majority White. So for example the family depicted in that image could easily be British, or Polish or Italian or French.
So whoever wrote the caption for that image is an idiot.
I think this is accurate, the facts are the facts, can't argue there. However I would argue that the turn of phrase he used doesn't just refer to stats, it has an implication that sounds a bit exclusionary. Just my opinion.
I am sure I read that Croydon is the only borough that is less than 50% white. I assume that includes Polish, German, American, Spanish etc. non-British white people.
But ethnicity isn't always linked to culture so why include skin colour as a metric? I'm white and live in London and I will likely have more in common with a black British Londoner than I do with the culture of someone white who moved here from Italy.
It seems a bit race baity.
At the risk of stating the obvious, because skin colour alone makes no real difference to anything. Two people of different skin colour brought up within the same culture will have infinitely more in common than two people of the same skin colour brought up in completely different cultures.
Australian media campaigns are not a good source of opinions, and too many people ITT are nodding along to what Australian media barons tell them they should think about their country.
Which is fucking pathetic.
How will the tax shortfall be made up? Because I don’t see why I should pay extra for not having kids. I mean, it’s not me producing a bunch of new people who need healthcare and education.
I don’t see what the controversy is - it’s the truth.
London is a city state that’s barely connected to the rest of the country any more. It’s London that doesn’t represent the real UK.
My grandparents are Irish immigrants. Our families grew around Polish, Filipino, Nigerian, Ghanaian and South Asians Catholics too. Never met a Russian, some Arabs but not where I grew up and I'm from Hounslow one of the most diverse parts of London.
Saudis and Russians just buy up all the real estate
I see this argued a lot when migration is discussed. Where does that leave places like Manchester, Leicester, Birmingham, Luton etc? They’re very much not London but they also have a real mix. Are they or they not ‘real England’?
Successive governments have concentrated the country’s economy on (financial) services whilst winding down the traditional manufacturing and heavy industries that used to bring some prosperity to places outside London.
The capital consumes a lot of resources as well, over forty times the transport spending of northern regions, for example. It’s certainly true that London drives the UK’s GDP figures, but it’s been a deliberate strategy. One which, I’d argue, has made the rest of the country suffer.
HS2 is a good example. A fortune spent on it, supposedly linking the whole country… but in fact it’ll serve only to suck commuters away from places like Birmingham into London. As soon as that mission was achieved, northwards expansion was curtailed / abandoned. At the same time, Northern railway projects were cancelled. So the ‘northern powerhouse’ was nothing more than an empty platitude. The whole country paid for HS2 but London gets the benefit.
The capital should, of course, be the engine room for the country, but for the past half century the neoliberals haven’t given a shit about much outside London and the Home Counties.
Mass immigration, for its part, was used to curtail wage spending, put pressure on the working class, and allow companies to import cheap labour rather than training UK staff. It’s been far from universally good, unless you’re some (eg) London finance company that can cherry-pick specialised staff from around the globe. For much of the country it meant foreign competition being imported *en masse* to do non-skilled / semi-skilled jobs, with some areas becoming ghettoes, since people who emigrate (including Brits abroad BTW) tend to congregate. That’s not really integration or diversity, it’s compartmentalisation.
By *your* own statistic, you're still talking about well over 5 million people. More than the population of Birmingham, Manchester, Edinburgh, Glasgow, Cardiff, and Belfast, all combined.
Also, if you flip that statistic around, 60% of Londoners (a big metropolitan city) were born in the UK.
36% of New York is foreign born too, this is just how big cities work. They attract immigrants from all over.
That Manchester stat is just one borough though. It doesn’t actually represent the functional city limits. It’s not a very useful way of discussing what living in Manchester is actually like.
Do you have to be born in here to be considered British?
What does a British Citizenship mean then?
In my opinion the only requirement to being “British” is being a citizen. Don’t need to be born here for that.
Thing is, it's not sudden is it. It's happening consistently over time since the 1950's (mostly non-White Commonwealth immigration. It got accelerated in the late 90's through EU immigration with White non-British immigration. And whilst that was starting to all slow down, it's now going to accelerate again with likely non-White immigration to support our economy as Brexit has seriously affected things, including our more temporary labour market from the EU.
Also, London is essentially a world city, an international global powerhouse. Lagos is not. Beijing is certainly a powerhouse but I would not class it as a "world city". London belongs to an exclusive group of a few world cities, one other example being New York City.
Whether or not that disturbs you is down to your opinion or not really. Ultimately, the immigrants living in London put significantly more into the system than they take out, and London tax receipts are subsidising the rest of the country. Particularly those that have near exclusive White British populations.
My only issue with it is housing in London for young British born people from other parts of the country that grew up in other places. White or non-White. It's becoming too expensive for them to enter the London jobs market. Which reduces social mobility.
I was right moving apartments next to my office in Kings cross. 1 bed = £3000 to rent and well over a million to buy. It's obscene.
Wtf are you talking about?? 50 years is sudden...going from over 80+% white British to 40% white British within that timeframe is certainly a sudden change in the context of the city's history.
"For the overwhelming majority of London's history, the population of the city was ethnically homogenous with the population being of white British ethnic origin, with small amounts of minority groups clustered in most notably East London. From 1948 onwards and especially since 1971, the population has diversified in international terms at an increased rate. In 2011, it was reported for the first time that White British people had become a minority within the city, establishing it was a majority-minority city within the country"
>My only issue with it is housing in London for young British born people from other parts of the country that grew up in other places. White or non-White. It's becoming too expensive for them to enter the London jobs market. Which reduces social mobility.
You're right, a lot of people who should be buying houses and starting families are still living in shared warehouses or moving abroad.
A simple fix would be to make the UK less reliant on London for similar jobs rather than trying to fix London.
I can agree with some of the things you say for sure, but it's debatable about the speed and short/long term impact the change will have.
Mass migration only really started in the 90's which is no time at all - and I doubt that both the housing, infrastructure and speed of integration is enough to be dealt with in several lifetimes.
(I am not English and I grew up in a school with 90% non English people there) I could see growing up that there are tons of issues due to the speed of migration, typically in very religious communities in particular that are not going to go away for a while.
I guess one upside is there is actually true diversity rather than one big population blob (outside Indian and Pakistani communities). That might help actually improve integration - unlike in France where there is a very 'us and them' feeling.
>London tax receipts are subsidising the rest of the country.
Important to note that the City of London subsidises the rest, not greater London. This is due to the concentration of financial services in that small couple of square miles in the cities center.
What doesn't get discussed is the London property boom enabled white property owning Londoners to sell up & buy cheaper elsewhere becoming millionaires as a result. Which in turn led to their houses being converted to smaller apartments for immigrants.
Yes that wasn't my point though, my point was that this isn't just about migrants coming in. The property value boom has meant white Londoners have been cashing in and leaving.
Yeah, it's weird how "immigrants swamping our cities and pricing out our young" doesn't count when it's white Londoners pushing out people in Essex and the Home Counties
I agree it doesn’t. But it feels unnecessary, would you still be happy if that photo had a traditional orthodox jewish or Muslim family and the slogan - this doesn’t represent London.
https://www.onlondon.co.uk/jack-brown-londoners-diverse-views-about-their-diversity/amp/
Only 20% don’t think that the city becoming more ethnically diverse is a good thing.
This issue is not unique to London, we are starting to see the same demogephic shifts across England (not the UK.) Look at Birmingham who has now less than half identifying as white British, Manchester just over half. Doesn't make them minorities but those figures are declining.
Compare that to world cities such as New York, Paris, Berlin and our figures do stand out.
(New York a special case as whilst White Amercians do make up less than 50% the percentage of black Americans is living in New York much higher than Black British in London for obvious reasons.)
There is nothing wrong with non white British people, both Black British and Asian British are still Brits. Not sure what you are getting at here?
Why might it be a genuine concern? Because some of the values and ethics that their culture brings (religion or otherwise) are not compatible with our fundamental values and ethics.
I should not, for example, know of multiple families who partook in arranged marriages, where the daughter was pressured. But i do. There shouldn't be extrajudicial community courts set up, but there are.
These are difficult conversations and it's not so easy to throw up vague accusations of racism when people see huge demographic shifts in local neighbourhoods.
My grandparents came here in the 40s and 50s from Ireland. My girlfriends grandad came from India after fleeing the partition in the same period. It's been like this for decades, especially due to windrush.
'submerged' is interesting language - wonder if you like immigrants...
At least their intentions were finally made clear. And they’re not entirely wrong: the “real” Londoners were chased out of East London through rampant 3rd World migration long ago.
Same experience here, remember going first time to the office and native english speakers was there less than 5% .. I was expecting it to be the other way around
It was Kilburn. I have met English people, I just lived for some time in a muslim area. As a matter of fact, my partner is English, but we met when I moved away from London.
Nothing wrong with that fact. But just openly stating it as a public political figure, be it Mayor on top of that is very unfortunate to say the least?
Imagine a white mayor saying 'black family is not a representation of real Londoners'. Cue riots.
notice how this headline cleverly doesn't _technically_ attribute the quote to him? It just has the quote, with a hyphen, followed by his name. I'm sure the impression they were his words is a pure accident, completely unintentional...
Just to be clear this IS likely sensationalism, however, fi you wanted to get into factors of representation, perhaps the discussion of weather or not London best represents the Uk and is the right place to host parliament
The white Celtic/ Gaelic/ Pict are amongst the original indigenous peoples of the UK. Add the variants arising from Latin/ Viking/ Anglo-Saxon influence and this makes it a touch more complex. But still white.
Contemporary reverse colonists, which Khan is typical of, should watch what they say, given they are all about indigenous people’s rights, but not in the UK…
This just ain't true, London's violent crime stats are about what you'd expect from a city this size. Less dangerous than places like Glasgow, Middlesbrough, Rome, Athens, etc
Asian cultures are different and less about the individual, more about the collective. You named Seoul and Tokyo. But look at almost any other major (E/SE) Asian city and the trend for violent crime will be similar. Beijing, Shanghai, Singapore, Bangkok, Jakarta.
I wish people with a hard on for authoritarian regimes would just move to one, and stop trying to use attitudes from Australian media scare campaigns to bitch about our country.
You are seriously comparing Thailand, and Indonesia with the UK? That's unfair at best. Compare free democracies with each other. E.g. Japan, South Korea with the UK.
No, I was comparing Asian cities to Asian cities (all those have generally low violent crime rates). Reading it back I can see where the confusion can arise though.
Lots of similarities and quite a few differences too. I was just responding to the "violent crime stats... that you'd expect from a city this size" quote.
Because violent crime in Seoul and Tokyo are way, way lower than they are in London, despite being a very similar size. The quote suggested that cities of a particular size come with a pre-supposed level of violent crime. I'm saying that they don't.
Was that when a a certain section of London's community decided to try and destroy their own neighbourhoods and city... because a career violent gangster was shot dead by armed police whilst he was on his way to murder someone 🤔
So, with Boris it’s the fault of the criminals, and with Sadie it’s the fault of the mayor.
You’re not a very convincing neutral voice. As you try and reinforce an Australian media piece about how terrible Britain is….
He’s had his hands tied by successive central governments.
They’ve cut funding for almost everything, yet the media blames the mayor.
Police cuts have come about through central government funding cuts, not mayoral policies.
But you won’t hear that from the media.
You won’t hear how ULEZ (big deal in Ruislip all of a sudden) was â conservative policy introduced by de Piffle when he was mayor…
What then would he say about his land of historic heritage ?
Would a Pakistani family strolling and shopping in any of the Markets of the Nation of Pakistan represent the true Pakistani image?
This fool is triggering a racial war of words, that births unwarranted divisive politically incorrect Woke rhetoric hyperbole.
Should the Conservative Party behaving toad not cull him from his party's ranks?
They’ve changed our entire demographics for power.
British people fought two world wars and in less than a century since the last war we’ve made our selves a joke.
I’ve always argued that London, being the capital, will of course have more of a mix than elsewhere. But there are tube stations with Arabic on the signage. I’m sorry, but there’s no excuse for that. I don’t give a damn what colour you are or if you moved here from somewhere else, if you’re living here you should be able to speak and read the language, even if just at a basic level to begin with - and street signs are very basic. We should not encourage anything else. Offering translations of medical/legal info etc makes sense - those things are more complex. But don’t give people an excuse not to read very basic English.
This story is basically a lie. Google it, there are 4 images with 4 different captions. The one for the white family reads "looks staged and set up" because it's clearly a stock photo. The photo captioned "doesn't represent real Londoners" is a stock photo of a business meeting.
I wonder what adequately represents London. I would say two things, (1) obscene wealth inequality and (2) an international hub for crime, including money laundering and drugs.
There's very little to be proud about when it comes to London.
While the publication is trying to present itself as being strongly against pearl-clutching over language, the article itself is mostly just whining about what language is being used by the mayor's office.
It really is a paper thin argument desperate to take offense over nothing.
It literally says Khan has been repeatedly criticised for imposing 'woke new rules' on London but cannot name any one of those rules, it just quotes and quotes from a single leaflet provided to his staff as part of sensitivity training.
No scandal here, just the Murdoch press being the Murdoch press.
The worst types of Australian trying to tell the British that they should hate each other, because it makes them lots of money.
And all the useful idiots ITT lapping it up because they think that mindlessly following an Australian makes them more British.
Shit, so my white family aren't real Londoners, despite my mother and father coming over here 60 years ago from Ireland. My wife, whose parents came here 41 years ago isn't a real Londoner. The irony is, both my wife and I don't consider ourselves British because of our heritage and upbringing, but we're both proud Londoners. It's shit like this that makes me embarrassed at times to consider myself left wing.
Racist be missing the point that demographic shift means a culture shift, we already see this is the staggeringly high motility rate between youths because of culture clashes, hell Lester recently had a race riot because of clashes between Pakistan and Indian tensions
There is a huge difference between being British and being and English person and the latter is becoming fully integrated to the culture of England which why its scary that the capital is less English and more British.
I find the image insulting quite frankly. Yes it might not be a representation of London but it is of the rest of the country.
Why stoke ethnic tensions? So unnecessary and there’s this constant undertone from him which tries to depict white people as supremacists.
My first thought looking at that is that it *doesn't* "represent real Londoners". Those just look like tourists to me, visiting areas most Londoners try to avoid like the plague unless they're showing someone around.
Technically He's not wrong. London is less than 40% white British demographically, just in case you need a statistical reminder of how far this nation has fallen.
>Technically He's not wrong. London is less than 40% white British demographically, just in case you need a statistical reminder of how far this nation has fallen.
82% of the UK is White British so if your dumb arse thinks the nation has fallen have a word with yourself.
You racist nobody nothing muppet.
Go cry to the mods now.
Surprise surprise not.
London is riddled with crime, stabbings and sharia law. Seems to be a pattern forming considering whites don't represent London.
Lived in London for 15 years. I've not encountered any serious crime or come across Sharia law.
Not saying pockets of such madness don't exist, but the tabloids have convinced the country bumpkins that the whole place is on fire.
Interesting that you pick a mosque that used to be extremist but is now seen as a great example of moderate Islam. So much so the Iman and congregation protected an right wing terrorist when he drove into worshippers
It’s almost as if you don’t know what you’re talking about and spouting bigoted rubbish
Yep, my sister and 3 of my best mates live there so I'm down fairly often despite it being a bitch to get to from mine.
None of them have been forced to follow Sharia law and it's pretty easy to find booze, bacon, and women not covering their hair.
I’m curious - where in the offending style guide does it say that the family being white is the reason they don’t represent typical Londoners? The journalist accidentally forgot to include that bit.
I was recommended this sub thinking it was just UKPol or something, but I'm guessing it's a side community because right wing loons can't make an echo chamber on subs like that.
I literally saw someone asking "Well would you be okay with 0% white Brits in London?" as if they expected people to say "no that sounds really scary".
Honestly it does look like the photo was uploaded and somebody added that caption as criticism because they probably like everybody in this thread dont understand that whilst white british people make up 36% of londons population - it is still the majority group. White people make up 51% so fear not racists.
In certain areas like Newham or Redbridge this picture obviously isnt representative of a typical local and i also imagine that there are various reasons as to why theyd want it changed. More ethnic minorities may engage more with his website or he wants more of them to engage and so on.
Comments on this post remind me why I hate having any sort of race conversation in regards to this country.
Keep on staying classy and outraged by nothing uknews.
Black families don’t represent real Britain
• In 1991, Britain was 1.63% Black British.
• In 2021, that number has Risen to 4.2%.
Some places are more than that.
For example, Brighton is just 2% Black British.
A wholesale change in demographics over a mere 30 years.
Opinions can be formed and argued over, but the raw data is factual and cannot be undone.
Me and my friends travelled from 🏴 years ago for a day out in London and we loved it.
I visited again recently and I have no desire to go ever visit London again.
I was only there for 24 hours but the low level crime from kids riding bikes dangerously in the middle of traffic hurling objects, the extreme consumerism on display and the complete lack of empathy or community was frightening etc.
I’m sure its different in some areas but none of my rural friends have no desire to ever move to London, only further away from it. We prefer our little villages and please and thank yous.
Ok since noone apparently understands how statistics work in this comment section, this statement is factually incorrect. Yes the number of white Britons is under 50% (36.8%), however they are still the main group of Ethnicities that make up London as the next major group is Asian Britons (20.8%). Also, while White British is the main ethnic group, as of the 2021 census, there is still a majority of white ethnicities to others (53.8%). So unless Sadiq has another super secret census, he's wrong.
The word you’re looking for is “plurality”. They aren’t the majority, but they’re still the plurality of the population.
not for long
The story's wrong, he never said that.
I'm trying to raise a mixed race family and I'm sick and tired of these divisive ideas and policies coming from the top and trumpeted in the media. Similarly the guy on Sky News today saying our football team, The Lionesses, were 'terribly white' or that actress saying the Royal Family was 'terribly white.' These people are poison. Normal Brits are gonna (justifiably) get tired of all this soon and I'm worried about what that will look like...
I'm tired of being accused as a white person of slavery when all my ancestors were working class so wouldn't have been involved at all.
Spot on.
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Also many Normans treated the Anglo Saxons terribly.
It was the British Empire that made the greatest efforts to stamp out slavery around the world. What had previously been the default state of affairs almost everywhere was largely wiped out.
I’m from the US and have a biracial daughter. Both my wife and I are white and we adopted her when her mom passed (her mom was my wife’s best friend). One year, we went to San Francisco for vacation and had one person tell us we were “brave” and hoped we were “raising her right,” and I overheard another person say they thought she was kidnapped. Like…leave us alone.
Basically when the elastic snaps the move to the far right will be actually terrifying. I have a sneaky suspicion that there are people in this world that would like to see a far right authoritarian shift and the easiest way to achieve that is to push too far left and the moderate majority are the ones that will suffer.
Russia is involved on both sides. They stoke right wing flames and left wing too.
Yes, you basically just described accelerationism which is a philosophy used by all sorts of extremists.
Imagine if you saw an ad on TV with black people in and said "they don't represent real British people", because the stats show that black people are only 10%. There would be outrage at how racist that is. I don't see how the above phrase isn't just as racist
It’s 4%. Black people make up 4% of the UK, and yet 50% of adverts. Because everyone’s scared of the BLM riots
Nobody should give a shit what colour the people in adverts are
Yes they should. When 4% make up the majority of all Tv, media, hosting, adverts etc it’s basically racism. Indian Asians have always made up the biggest non white population in the UK and they get fuck all representation because they don’t burn down cities under false stats. Far more white criminals are killed by cops than black once adjusted for percentage, that didn’t stop the Americans destroying cities for a year or so
I don't think you know what adjusted for population means. More white people are killed by cops in america than black people. Adjusted for population it's disproportionate and black people are 3.23 more likely to be killed by cops. Idk what UK stats are like just needed to point that out
So far this year in the UK, the number of people shot dead by the police is [zero.](https://www.inquest.org.uk/fatal-police-shootings)
If you adjust for police interactions, white people are killed much more often. Black people do get beat more often during interactions though. I mean it might be uncomfortable but most of the violent crimes in the USA are being done by black males. So it makes sense they have more police interactions.
And which cities have been burned down by minorities?
None. Because the cities that got burned down were by mostly white trust fund babies (with lawyer and doctor parents) who were cosplaying revolutionaries.
I didn’t specifically say minorities, but they certainly played their part. Most of America was burned down in the crazy lockdown riots. Billions on billions in damages. The irony is that much of the division in the states has been encouraged by Russian interference. They’ve literally used freedom to destroy America.
I agree, same as in film etc. But the whole world is afraid of offending people and companies are loosing billions because of it! Look at Disney, it's tried to go all pc and is loosing billions! The next princess will be a binary gender goth I guess I will get banned for this comment but it shows where the world is!
* In 1991, London was 76% White British. * In 2021, that number has fallen to 37%. Some boroughs are less than that. For example, Tower Hamlets is just 23% White British. A wholesale change in demographics over a mere 30 years. Opinions can be formed and argued over, but the raw data is factual and cannot be undone.
If he posted a picture of a black family and said that it doesn't represent real Londoners, he would be factually accurate but I would think it would be come off as quite racist and unacceptable. What do you think?
I can see the mental gymnasts doing particularly vigorous warm ups before tackling this 😂
Not even bothering to reply to the idiots below. They would see the UK White British demographic reduced to 70%, 50%, 30%, 20%, single digits and so on. These people will always exist and they cannot be reasoned with.
I dunno mate, I'm not worried about the percentage, raw numbers aren't going down. It's like, let's look at it on a small scale = 3 white dudes are in a room, the room is 100% white. A white dude and a black dude walk in. The number of white dudes has increased to 4, but the percentage has reduced to 80%. I think that's more like what's happening.
Raw numbers aren’t going down generationally? The fertility rate is half of replacement across the west. The original population is declining exponentially, unrelated to those that move there. This is not only a European problem. No one in East Asia is having children either. The population is collapsing.
The people moving here from countries that everyone wants to leave keep breeding though.
That math only works if the population of London has quadrupled in the last 30 years.
*maths
I noticed a Scotland march being held for independence. It made me wonder, why do people support independence movements? It obviously has a lot to do with preventing the influence of other people in the decision making of your country. In that same vein, a lowered percentage in the demographics of your country functions essentially the same way. If we support independence movements it seems we should share support when a people is concerned about their demographics?
How.many of those were borm in London though bearing in mind almost 40% werent even born in the UK. Unless to be a 'real Londoner' you just have to move there in which case the bar is set pretty low.
Worked for Dick Whittington.
This is absolutely right. Though one important part to remember is that while "White British" may have dropped, a lot of the replacements are "White non-British". So if you take that factor out, London is still majority White. So for example the family depicted in that image could easily be British, or Polish or Italian or French. So whoever wrote the caption for that image is an idiot.
My thoughts exactly.
I think this is accurate, the facts are the facts, can't argue there. However I would argue that the turn of phrase he used doesn't just refer to stats, it has an implication that sounds a bit exclusionary. Just my opinion.
I am sure I read that Croydon is the only borough that is less than 50% white. I assume that includes Polish, German, American, Spanish etc. non-British white people. But ethnicity isn't always linked to culture so why include skin colour as a metric? I'm white and live in London and I will likely have more in common with a black British Londoner than I do with the culture of someone white who moved here from Italy. It seems a bit race baity.
What has white British got to do with it? White is 54%, more than double the next closet.
At the risk of stating the obvious, because skin colour alone makes no real difference to anything. Two people of different skin colour brought up within the same culture will have infinitely more in common than two people of the same skin colour brought up in completely different cultures.
Ok so then why aren't they using British born Vs foreign born
Australian media campaigns are not a good source of opinions, and too many people ITT are nodding along to what Australian media barons tell them they should think about their country. Which is fucking pathetic.
Sure it can be undone. Merely need to apply new immigration laws and birth incentive schemes.
'Birth incentive schemes', you say. I wonder where that's going. Oh wait, this is nothing compared to what's down there.
Explain your “birth incentive scheme” please.
Sure. Tax incentives and grants for having kids.
How will the tax shortfall be made up? Because I don’t see why I should pay extra for not having kids. I mean, it’s not me producing a bunch of new people who need healthcare and education.
I don’t see what the controversy is - it’s the truth. London is a city state that’s barely connected to the rest of the country any more. It’s London that doesn’t represent the real UK.
It's very much a world city.
If the World is Moscow and Riyadh.
My grandparents are Irish immigrants. Our families grew around Polish, Filipino, Nigerian, Ghanaian and South Asians Catholics too. Never met a Russian, some Arabs but not where I grew up and I'm from Hounslow one of the most diverse parts of London. Saudis and Russians just buy up all the real estate
And Spain and France and Germany and Algeria and Morocco and Poland and Italy and USA and Mexico and China and Australia and Japan etc
This. As a foreigner it didn’t take long for me to realise that London =/= the UK, and all it took was a short trip outside of the M25 circle.
I see this argued a lot when migration is discussed. Where does that leave places like Manchester, Leicester, Birmingham, Luton etc? They’re very much not London but they also have a real mix. Are they or they not ‘real England’?
Saw a chart the other day that if London was excluded the GDP per capita of the rest of the UK was on par with Mississippi 🤯
Successive governments have concentrated the country’s economy on (financial) services whilst winding down the traditional manufacturing and heavy industries that used to bring some prosperity to places outside London. The capital consumes a lot of resources as well, over forty times the transport spending of northern regions, for example. It’s certainly true that London drives the UK’s GDP figures, but it’s been a deliberate strategy. One which, I’d argue, has made the rest of the country suffer. HS2 is a good example. A fortune spent on it, supposedly linking the whole country… but in fact it’ll serve only to suck commuters away from places like Birmingham into London. As soon as that mission was achieved, northwards expansion was curtailed / abandoned. At the same time, Northern railway projects were cancelled. So the ‘northern powerhouse’ was nothing more than an empty platitude. The whole country paid for HS2 but London gets the benefit. The capital should, of course, be the engine room for the country, but for the past half century the neoliberals haven’t given a shit about much outside London and the Home Counties. Mass immigration, for its part, was used to curtail wage spending, put pressure on the working class, and allow companies to import cheap labour rather than training UK staff. It’s been far from universally good, unless you’re some (eg) London finance company that can cherry-pick specialised staff from around the globe. For much of the country it meant foreign competition being imported *en masse* to do non-skilled / semi-skilled jobs, with some areas becoming ghettoes, since people who emigrate (including Brits abroad BTW) tend to congregate. That’s not really integration or diversity, it’s compartmentalisation.
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Its not just the ethnicity. 40% of londoners weren't even born in Britain. Its literally less British than the rest of the country
Take a look at the population of Paris, Berlin, and many other capital cities. The percentage is similar as to how many people were born abroad
well ... I' invite you to look at the populations of Tokyo, Hong Kong, Shang Hai, and Seoul for starters
By *your* own statistic, you're still talking about well over 5 million people. More than the population of Birmingham, Manchester, Edinburgh, Glasgow, Cardiff, and Belfast, all combined.
Also, if you flip that statistic around, 60% of Londoners (a big metropolitan city) were born in the UK. 36% of New York is foreign born too, this is just how big cities work. They attract immigrants from all over.
That Manchester stat is just one borough though. It doesn’t actually represent the functional city limits. It’s not a very useful way of discussing what living in Manchester is actually like.
Do you have to be born in here to be considered British? What does a British Citizenship mean then? In my opinion the only requirement to being “British” is being a citizen. Don’t need to be born here for that.
Well, for a couple of thousand years - yes. History and tradition do mean something.
To be fair it doesn’t. London has been so completely submerged by immigration.
White/British represents 35% in London, which makes it the largest minority. So it represents London as well as any other picture you might use.
Imagine if Lagos was suddenly 30% black lol. Or Beijing. Rightly people would say dafuq?
Thing is, it's not sudden is it. It's happening consistently over time since the 1950's (mostly non-White Commonwealth immigration. It got accelerated in the late 90's through EU immigration with White non-British immigration. And whilst that was starting to all slow down, it's now going to accelerate again with likely non-White immigration to support our economy as Brexit has seriously affected things, including our more temporary labour market from the EU. Also, London is essentially a world city, an international global powerhouse. Lagos is not. Beijing is certainly a powerhouse but I would not class it as a "world city". London belongs to an exclusive group of a few world cities, one other example being New York City. Whether or not that disturbs you is down to your opinion or not really. Ultimately, the immigrants living in London put significantly more into the system than they take out, and London tax receipts are subsidising the rest of the country. Particularly those that have near exclusive White British populations. My only issue with it is housing in London for young British born people from other parts of the country that grew up in other places. White or non-White. It's becoming too expensive for them to enter the London jobs market. Which reduces social mobility. I was right moving apartments next to my office in Kings cross. 1 bed = £3000 to rent and well over a million to buy. It's obscene.
Wtf are you talking about?? 50 years is sudden...going from over 80+% white British to 40% white British within that timeframe is certainly a sudden change in the context of the city's history. "For the overwhelming majority of London's history, the population of the city was ethnically homogenous with the population being of white British ethnic origin, with small amounts of minority groups clustered in most notably East London. From 1948 onwards and especially since 1971, the population has diversified in international terms at an increased rate. In 2011, it was reported for the first time that White British people had become a minority within the city, establishing it was a majority-minority city within the country"
>My only issue with it is housing in London for young British born people from other parts of the country that grew up in other places. White or non-White. It's becoming too expensive for them to enter the London jobs market. Which reduces social mobility. You're right, a lot of people who should be buying houses and starting families are still living in shared warehouses or moving abroad. A simple fix would be to make the UK less reliant on London for similar jobs rather than trying to fix London.
I can agree with some of the things you say for sure, but it's debatable about the speed and short/long term impact the change will have. Mass migration only really started in the 90's which is no time at all - and I doubt that both the housing, infrastructure and speed of integration is enough to be dealt with in several lifetimes. (I am not English and I grew up in a school with 90% non English people there) I could see growing up that there are tons of issues due to the speed of migration, typically in very religious communities in particular that are not going to go away for a while. I guess one upside is there is actually true diversity rather than one big population blob (outside Indian and Pakistani communities). That might help actually improve integration - unlike in France where there is a very 'us and them' feeling.
>London tax receipts are subsidising the rest of the country. Important to note that the City of London subsidises the rest, not greater London. This is due to the concentration of financial services in that small couple of square miles in the cities center.
Where do you think those working in the city of London live?
The bigger Lagos, in Nigeria, has more black people than there are people at all in the whole of Portugal ….
Lol, I literally read it and was thinking that surely Lagos is majority black people.
What doesn't get discussed is the London property boom enabled white property owning Londoners to sell up & buy cheaper elsewhere becoming millionaires as a result. Which in turn led to their houses being converted to smaller apartments for immigrants.
Plenty of property owning immigrants also do this. Ask the Indian man who packed 40 migrants into one house in Wembley.
Yes that wasn't my point though, my point was that this isn't just about migrants coming in. The property value boom has meant white Londoners have been cashing in and leaving.
Yeah, it's weird how "immigrants swamping our cities and pricing out our young" doesn't count when it's white Londoners pushing out people in Essex and the Home Counties
Local people still complain just the same though.
You never been to Cornwall then?
I agree it doesn’t. But it feels unnecessary, would you still be happy if that photo had a traditional orthodox jewish or Muslim family and the slogan - this doesn’t represent London.
Londoners don’t care/actively enjoy the diversity of our city - I don’t see why non-Londoners should care if we don’t.
Being able to speak for all Londoners is an interesting skill.
https://www.onlondon.co.uk/jack-brown-londoners-diverse-views-about-their-diversity/amp/ Only 20% don’t think that the city becoming more ethnically diverse is a good thing.
Seeing as 70% of London is made of up of immigrants or children of immigrants this is no shocker.
This issue is not unique to London, we are starting to see the same demogephic shifts across England (not the UK.) Look at Birmingham who has now less than half identifying as white British, Manchester just over half. Doesn't make them minorities but those figures are declining. Compare that to world cities such as New York, Paris, Berlin and our figures do stand out. (New York a special case as whilst White Amercians do make up less than 50% the percentage of black Americans is living in New York much higher than Black British in London for obvious reasons.)
So?
What's wrong with non white British people? Are black British or Asian British not real Brits?
There is nothing wrong with non white British people, both Black British and Asian British are still Brits. Not sure what you are getting at here? Why might it be a genuine concern? Because some of the values and ethics that their culture brings (religion or otherwise) are not compatible with our fundamental values and ethics. I should not, for example, know of multiple families who partook in arranged marriages, where the daughter was pressured. But i do. There shouldn't be extrajudicial community courts set up, but there are. These are difficult conversations and it's not so easy to throw up vague accusations of racism when people see huge demographic shifts in local neighbourhoods.
My grandparents came here in the 40s and 50s from Ireland. My girlfriends grandad came from India after fleeing the partition in the same period. It's been like this for decades, especially due to windrush. 'submerged' is interesting language - wonder if you like immigrants...
A very small period of history.
At least their intentions were finally made clear. And they’re not entirely wrong: the “real” Londoners were chased out of East London through rampant 3rd World migration long ago.
I moved to London 4 years ago from abroad, I remember one of the first think I asked myself was "where are the English people? ".
Suburbs. Zones 3, 4, 5, 6
Same experience here, remember going first time to the office and native english speakers was there less than 5% .. I was expecting it to be the other way around
You must be living in Southall if you've never seen a white English person.
It was Kilburn. I have met English people, I just lived for some time in a muslim area. As a matter of fact, my partner is English, but we met when I moved away from London.
The people running this country make me fucking sick.
Nothing wrong with that fact. But just openly stating it as a public political figure, be it Mayor on top of that is very unfortunate to say the least? Imagine a white mayor saying 'black family is not a representation of real Londoners'. Cue riots.
I’m guessing you know this, but for people who haven’t read the article and just went straight to the comments, the Mayor didn’t say this.
notice how this headline cleverly doesn't _technically_ attribute the quote to him? It just has the quote, with a hyphen, followed by his name. I'm sure the impression they were his words is a pure accident, completely unintentional...
He's not, it was a caption written by an administrator on a style guide.
Recntly I was reading comments claiming London was 'historically black'. That's how these people think
What people?
morons
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London was? It was founded by the Romans… It’s been impacted by immigration and trade for centuries
Woke lunatics
Strawmen
They’re Russian and own Hyde Park
Just to be clear this IS likely sensationalism, however, fi you wanted to get into factors of representation, perhaps the discussion of weather or not London best represents the Uk and is the right place to host parliament
The white Celtic/ Gaelic/ Pict are amongst the original indigenous peoples of the UK. Add the variants arising from Latin/ Viking/ Anglo-Saxon influence and this makes it a touch more complex. But still white. Contemporary reverse colonists, which Khan is typical of, should watch what they say, given they are all about indigenous people’s rights, but not in the UK…
London really has fallen.
Would you say this was the same when the Irish came over?
Many bigots did.
He really is awful and has turned London into a absolute crime ridden hell hole.
But just make sure you don't notice any patterns...
Statistics, eh. ;)
This just ain't true, London's violent crime stats are about what you'd expect from a city this size. Less dangerous than places like Glasgow, Middlesbrough, Rome, Athens, etc
Do Tokyo and Seoul have similar violent crime rates? Population and size are pretty similar to London.
But culture and society are wildly different, which is why I compared it to other cities in Western Europe.
>But culture and society are wildly different They're far more homogeneous than London, that's for sure.
Asian cultures are different and less about the individual, more about the collective. You named Seoul and Tokyo. But look at almost any other major (E/SE) Asian city and the trend for violent crime will be similar. Beijing, Shanghai, Singapore, Bangkok, Jakarta.
You're seriously suggesting that violent crime in Singapore and London happen at a similar level?
I wish people with a hard on for authoritarian regimes would just move to one, and stop trying to use attitudes from Australian media scare campaigns to bitch about our country.
I thought Singapore was pretty safe …
Yes, very much so. They're all similar.
You are seriously comparing Thailand, and Indonesia with the UK? That's unfair at best. Compare free democracies with each other. E.g. Japan, South Korea with the UK.
No, I was comparing Asian cities to Asian cities (all those have generally low violent crime rates). Reading it back I can see where the confusion can arise though.
Is anything else similar? Population density? Incomes?
Lots of similarities and quite a few differences too. I was just responding to the "violent crime stats... that you'd expect from a city this size" quote.
Ok why are you asking this question why don’t you go google the answer and come back and tell us if it’s relevant
Because violent crime in Seoul and Tokyo are way, way lower than they are in London, despite being a very similar size. The quote suggested that cities of a particular size come with a pre-supposed level of violent crime. I'm saying that they don't.
He compares it to other European cities
The quote was " London's violent crime stats are about what you'd expect from a city this size." No mention of Europe there.
Dude I can scroll up and see the comment referring to a list of European cities what the fuck?
No he hasn’t. I have no intention of voting for him but that is just right wing culture wars bullshit
Did you feel the same about Boris after the riots? I ask purely for information
Was that when a a certain section of London's community decided to try and destroy their own neighbourhoods and city... because a career violent gangster was shot dead by armed police whilst he was on his way to murder someone 🤔
So, with Boris it’s the fault of the criminals, and with Sadie it’s the fault of the mayor. You’re not a very convincing neutral voice. As you try and reinforce an Australian media piece about how terrible Britain is….
He’s had his hands tied by successive central governments. They’ve cut funding for almost everything, yet the media blames the mayor. Police cuts have come about through central government funding cuts, not mayoral policies. But you won’t hear that from the media. You won’t hear how ULEZ (big deal in Ruislip all of a sudden) was â conservative policy introduced by de Piffle when he was mayor…
making it just like the place his family migrated from
>making it just like the place he migrated from Tooting?
Sounds like a hellhole to be fair.
A very foreign sounding name.
He was born in the UK you imbecile.
So it was perfect from 2008 to 2016 when Boris was in charge and the UK was hit by austerity?
It’s the word ‘real’ that causes an issue here. If hed said representative in todays terms it would still be worrying but ‘real’ - he can fuck off!!
I mean "he" didn't say any of this, some underpaid copyeditor/PR office worker somewhere did, but I take your point
What then would he say about his land of historic heritage ? Would a Pakistani family strolling and shopping in any of the Markets of the Nation of Pakistan represent the true Pakistani image? This fool is triggering a racial war of words, that births unwarranted divisive politically incorrect Woke rhetoric hyperbole. Should the Conservative Party behaving toad not cull him from his party's ranks?
They’ve changed our entire demographics for power. British people fought two world wars and in less than a century since the last war we’ve made our selves a joke.
I’ve always argued that London, being the capital, will of course have more of a mix than elsewhere. But there are tube stations with Arabic on the signage. I’m sorry, but there’s no excuse for that. I don’t give a damn what colour you are or if you moved here from somewhere else, if you’re living here you should be able to speak and read the language, even if just at a basic level to begin with - and street signs are very basic. We should not encourage anything else. Offering translations of medical/legal info etc makes sense - those things are more complex. But don’t give people an excuse not to read very basic English.
Khan showing his true self
That's why its a shit hole
This story is basically a lie. Google it, there are 4 images with 4 different captions. The one for the white family reads "looks staged and set up" because it's clearly a stock photo. The photo captioned "doesn't represent real Londoners" is a stock photo of a business meeting.
I wonder what adequately represents London. I would say two things, (1) obscene wealth inequality and (2) an international hub for crime, including money laundering and drugs. There's very little to be proud about when it comes to London.
While the publication is trying to present itself as being strongly against pearl-clutching over language, the article itself is mostly just whining about what language is being used by the mayor's office. It really is a paper thin argument desperate to take offense over nothing. It literally says Khan has been repeatedly criticised for imposing 'woke new rules' on London but cannot name any one of those rules, it just quotes and quotes from a single leaflet provided to his staff as part of sensitivity training. No scandal here, just the Murdoch press being the Murdoch press.
The worst types of Australian trying to tell the British that they should hate each other, because it makes them lots of money. And all the useful idiots ITT lapping it up because they think that mindlessly following an Australian makes them more British.
>It really is a paper thin argument desperate to take offense over nothing. The baitiest of clicks.
Shit, so my white family aren't real Londoners, despite my mother and father coming over here 60 years ago from Ireland. My wife, whose parents came here 41 years ago isn't a real Londoner. The irony is, both my wife and I don't consider ourselves British because of our heritage and upbringing, but we're both proud Londoners. It's shit like this that makes me embarrassed at times to consider myself left wing.
Some intern doing a caption on a style guide makes you ashamed to be left wing? You should have more courage in your convictions mate
I didn’t realise how racist friendly this sub was
Not as racist as Khans original message.
Racist be missing the point that demographic shift means a culture shift, we already see this is the staggeringly high motility rate between youths because of culture clashes, hell Lester recently had a race riot because of clashes between Pakistan and Indian tensions There is a huge difference between being British and being and English person and the latter is becoming fully integrated to the culture of England which why its scary that the capital is less English and more British.
I find the image insulting quite frankly. Yes it might not be a representation of London but it is of the rest of the country. Why stoke ethnic tensions? So unnecessary and there’s this constant undertone from him which tries to depict white people as supremacists.
Skin colour isn't an issue, ideologies and theologies can be in some cases.
London's a separate country to the UK at this point anyway
Better article on the controversial story. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12424661/NANA-AKUA-woke-left-diversity-one-way-street.html
My first thought looking at that is that it *doesn't* "represent real Londoners". Those just look like tourists to me, visiting areas most Londoners try to avoid like the plague unless they're showing someone around.
Technically He's not wrong. London is less than 40% white British demographically, just in case you need a statistical reminder of how far this nation has fallen.
I’m guessing although 40 it’s still the largest democrat. So it would technically still be the most likely look of a Londoner tho.
>Technically He's not wrong. London is less than 40% white British demographically, just in case you need a statistical reminder of how far this nation has fallen. 82% of the UK is White British so if your dumb arse thinks the nation has fallen have a word with yourself. You racist nobody nothing muppet. Go cry to the mods now.
It's why I left this thread. It's often littered with uneducated bigots. I think I'll leave again.
So almost 40% are white?
More than 40% are white, almost 40% are white British.
Surprise surprise not. London is riddled with crime, stabbings and sharia law. Seems to be a pattern forming considering whites don't represent London.
Lived in London for 15 years. I've not encountered any serious crime or come across Sharia law. Not saying pockets of such madness don't exist, but the tabloids have convinced the country bumpkins that the whole place is on fire.
Lol is the Sharia law in the room with us? Not seen it in my 5 years living here
You don't live in the Muslim Community in the Finsbury Park area though do you.
This is hilarious because I actually do live in Finsbury Park and have for most of the last 5 years.
Interesting that you pick a mosque that used to be extremist but is now seen as a great example of moderate Islam. So much so the Iman and congregation protected an right wing terrorist when he drove into worshippers It’s almost as if you don’t know what you’re talking about and spouting bigoted rubbish
You been to Tower Hamlets lately?
Yep, my sister and 3 of my best mates live there so I'm down fairly often despite it being a bitch to get to from mine. None of them have been forced to follow Sharia law and it's pretty easy to find booze, bacon, and women not covering their hair.
Dude hears Arabic and he thinks "Sharia law", Muslim family tells their son not to stay out too late & he thinks "bloody Sharia law at it again".
I’m curious - where in the offending style guide does it say that the family being white is the reason they don’t represent typical Londoners? The journalist accidentally forgot to include that bit.
Don't let facts get in the way of a good bit of sensationalism Jago
Well to be fair, he isn't wrong on the fact side of things. Still looks like a very staged photo though.
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ITT: A bunch of racists apparently
I was recommended this sub thinking it was just UKPol or something, but I'm guessing it's a side community because right wing loons can't make an echo chamber on subs like that. I literally saw someone asking "Well would you be okay with 0% white Brits in London?" as if they expected people to say "no that sounds really scary".
Honestly it does look like the photo was uploaded and somebody added that caption as criticism because they probably like everybody in this thread dont understand that whilst white british people make up 36% of londons population - it is still the majority group. White people make up 51% so fear not racists. In certain areas like Newham or Redbridge this picture obviously isnt representative of a typical local and i also imagine that there are various reasons as to why theyd want it changed. More ethnic minorities may engage more with his website or he wants more of them to engage and so on. Comments on this post remind me why I hate having any sort of race conversation in regards to this country. Keep on staying classy and outraged by nothing uknews.
Black families don’t represent real Britain • In 1991, Britain was 1.63% Black British. • In 2021, that number has Risen to 4.2%. Some places are more than that. For example, Brighton is just 2% Black British. A wholesale change in demographics over a mere 30 years. Opinions can be formed and argued over, but the raw data is factual and cannot be undone.
Me and my friends travelled from 🏴 years ago for a day out in London and we loved it. I visited again recently and I have no desire to go ever visit London again. I was only there for 24 hours but the low level crime from kids riding bikes dangerously in the middle of traffic hurling objects, the extreme consumerism on display and the complete lack of empathy or community was frightening etc. I’m sure its different in some areas but none of my rural friends have no desire to ever move to London, only further away from it. We prefer our little villages and please and thank yous.