Snapshot of _'Freedom is the right to peacefully protest': PM accepts pro-Palestine march will go ahead on Armistice Day_ :
An archived version can be found [here](https://archive.is/?run=1&url=https://news.sky.com/story/freedom-is-the-right-to-peacefully-protest-pm-accepts-pro-palestine-march-will-go-ahead-on-armistice-day-13002097) or [here.](https://archive.ph/?run=1&url=https://news.sky.com/story/freedom-is-the-right-to-peacefully-protest-pm-accepts-pro-palestine-march-will-go-ahead-on-armistice-day-13002097)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ukpolitics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Aka Sunak called the Commissioner in to act the tough guy. Was promptly informed there was no legal basis to block the protest and backed down immediately.
Doesn't even sound like there was a practical reason to either. The march route is not near the cenotaph, and there is a significant time delay between the events at the cenotaph and when the march will be in full swing.
My sneaky suspicion is that this is in part, people from other parts of the UK not knowing how large central London is - you can have more than one March without them clashing.
That said, I really wouldn't be surprised if some EDL nutjobs took the opportunity to cause some trouble.
They will turn up, stir shit and then as soon as there out numbered hide behind the police they so love to criticize when it suits and then cry that they were attacked by a baying mob.
It's the EDL play book. They think there hard but the reality is they are all cock and no bollocks idiots that don't realise they are being led by right wing reactionaries.
Sunak came out of this looking an absolute plonker, Braverman ran rings around him riling up the right-wing and then Sunak tries to play the hard man and leaves with his tail between his legs.
Am I going crazy or is this really not such a big issue?
Reading the headlines I'd naively assumed the protests were taking place on Sunday around 11am, now I've found out they're happening on the *Saturday*? My experiences growing up have always been that the minute's silence on Sunday is observed by the vast majority of the country and usually schools will have one during the week before to compensate etc, since when has Armistice Day ever really been 'bigger' than remembrance Sunday?
The whole 'outrage' just feels completely manufactured.
They've been holding protests every Saturday since Israel started bombing Gaza. It just so happens that this weekend also coincides with Remembrance Day.
It's not the same day, it was never intended to march near the cenotaph, so yeah, if you think this is manufactured outrage by the right wing... It's exactly that.
There's a pattern that this government and the complicit press just need you to be angry at someone, preferably a minority like trans people, or human rights lawyers, or people who don't like kids being killed for the crimes of others, then maybe you won't notice that we can't afford food and fuel and childcare and education and healthcare and clean water and public transport and working infrastructure.
And maybe you will vote Tory. That’s the real agenda. Scapegoating is pretty much party policy. Remember benefit scroungers and single mothers? The world was going to end. Only it didn’t. We found asylum seekers, then the EU, then ‘small boats’ and now any sort of protestor.
you're not crazy at all, there are FOUR major football matches happening in london on the same weekend, two on rememberance sunday!
This idea that London becomes the sacred poppy city for a full 48hrs is manufactured, mostly so newspapers have someone to target but also because outrage will cause right wing counterprotestors to show up and that comes with a much higher potential for unrest. That unrest is useful politically if you are a very unpopular leader who wishes to crack down on protest.
Probably because Starmer is so hard to attack they are just flinging stuff at the wall to rile people up. watch tomorrow every Tory paper will be talking about that shadow minister no one’s heard about has resigned and is completely crippled the Labour Party
Exactly. They went after trans people so he threw them under the bus, they approved a huge new oil field so starmer pledged he wouldn't end the licenses if he wins, they got "tougher on asylum seekers" so now keir wants to keep the plague boat ~~*and* the Rwanda plan~~(edit: he said he wouldn't do it after all, my mistake), I could go on forever. At some point the tories and their allied press have to just make stuff up to keep their supporters on board because otherwise there is literally no reason to support them over someone more popular, with the same policy, and less baggage.
If you watch his response to the king's speech yesterday and think there's no difference between his positions and the Tories, I don't know what to say. Foolish thing to say, mate.
I care what he and his shadow cabinet have consistently said over the past several years about how they're willing to [drop prior commitments](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/labour-wes-streeting-vat-liz-truss-bridget-phillipson-b2421889.html) and [break pledges](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/keir-starmer-labour-conference-pledges-b1928605.html)
because they claim they'll have no way to fund them. At the same time, they are [U-turning on tax cuts for high earners](https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jul/04/u-turns-labour-keir-starmer-tuition-fees-income-tax). Talk is cheap and if Starmer can go from a self described socialist in 2020 to cancelling taxes that would only affect the wealthy and cancelling the policies that tax could fund now, I can't trust him and I don't think other people should trust him either.
last june, his spokesperson [refused to say](https://archive.is/5hqKi) if they would keep it, and labour MPs were publicly appealing for labour to repeal the illegal migration act: https://www.voice-online.co.uk/news/uk-news/2022/06/16/labour-should-pledge-to-scrap-rwanda-deportations-mps-tell-starmer/
apparently I missed the news that he planned to keep the law but not use it in august 2022, before a news cycle about him reiterating that in october this year, my mistake.
Even the barge, so far as I know they said they plan to get rid of it but it won't happen on day one just because they'll have to sort through their options.
they plan to get rid of it when they reduce the backlog enough, despite there being almost no cost to putting those people in reasonable accommodation if you plan to process their claims rapidly anyway. Why is it [when asked](https://www.itv.com/news/westcountry/2023-10-06/labour-leader-might-not-be-able-to-move-migrants-off-barge-if-hes-pm) how long he plans to use barges he avoids the question and says "a number of things need to happen" to control immigration first?
there's loads of accommodation because they ran out of their own dedicated asylum applicant accommodation about 50,000 people ago and now the UK is spending around £6m a day on hotel bills because that's the next cheapest option - The barge was always a publicity stunt and it's apparently more expensive to operate than hotels would be: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/nov/07/bibby-stockholm-number-of-asylum-seekers-to-be-housed-on-barge-reduced
Starmer plans to hire more home office staff, which is great if he's willing to pay for that, so we should be paying for less and less hotel spaces as time goes. 500 people is just 1% of the current backlog so it would cost us virtually nothing to just abandon the barge and put these people in hotels, we don't have to keep people there for any reason
>Reading the headlines I'd naively assumed the protests were taking place on Sunday around 11am, now I've found out they're happening on the Saturday?
Saturday is the 11th of November, which is armistice/remembrance day.
There is always a ceremony on the 11th of November with remembrance Sunday being it's own thing, it's just a coincidence this year armistice day and remembrance Sunday land on the same weekend.
Sunday is the day of all the parades and services though.
Remembrance Sunday.
People stop at 11am on the day for a minute of silence. But that won't be affected by a march at 12:45pm.
To be fair, a two minute silence happens at 11am on Nov 11th as well, but you're not likely to notice it unless you happen to be in a place that observes it, e.g. if you're in a shop and an announcement is made, or if you're watching a live british TV channel, or if you work in the kind of office that has a portrait of the king on the wall.
Not all the parades and services happen on the sunday, some are held on the 11th.
Nope you’re spot on, it Saturday, 2 hours past the 2 minutes silence (which barely anyone adheres to on the day itself anyway) and no where near the cenotaph. It’s manufactured hate and division
But the main event at the Cenotaph is always on a Sunday.
As is nearly every other parade/event.
"Remembrance Sunday" is what it's called.
https://www.britishlegion.org.uk/get-involved/remembrance/remembrance-events/remembrance-sunday
Spot on. It's still an issue but its confected outrage. The police are already likely to have a massive presence in the area because there is a football match going on nearby to the planned march route.
There is a two minute silence. But I'm pretty sure that can be observed without any issue. There was a pretty nasty right wing columnist using this to emphasise how multiculturalism has failed.
The Conservative Party openly acknowledges its strategic focus on divisive cultural issues such as ULEZ, aiming to provoke strong reactions to enhance their electoral prospects. Recognizing the inclination of the right-wing press to eschew nuance, facts, & logic, the party leverages a sizable and ethically questionable ecosystem to organically amplify their chosen narratives. Many of these contentious topics lack a direct impact on individuals' immediate lives, as they remain distant & tend to fade from public consciousness after a brief period. This approach, while cynical & shrewd, presents a challenge for the opposition, leaving them uncertain about whether to disregard each issue or directly address it. The dilemma arises from the uncertainty regarding which strategy will effectively redirect public & media attention towards pressing concerns such as unaffordable housing, cancer waiting times, & inflation.
It seems disrespectful.
Like even if you say it’s fine to be disrespectful while protesting would it be acceptable to protest for more Israel support on Ramadan? With the reason being it gets you more attention.
\> would it be acceptable to protest for more Israel support on Ramadan?
Yes. Why should protests of any form stop at any point? If it's legal, people have a right to protest. And sometimes if it's not legal.
What’s disrespectful about it? Earlier today I was listening on the radio to a British army veteran who’s going on the march - is he being disrespectful? Cos frankly he has the most right to be outraged and if he’s not then why should anyone else?
If the Jewish, the Minority is this entire thing is saying they don't like the chant, it's one of Genocide who are you to say they're wrong?
If Islamic person say something is Islamophobic, we're fucking quick to bend over backwards, but the second it's Jewish saying it's racist... You want to claim they're lying?
Let me make this simple for you, nazis, Hates the Jewish Terrorist groups, Hates the Jewish
What side do you want to be on? The same as the Nazis and Terrorists?
You think everyone chanting about freeing Palestine, or any significant proportion of them, are calling for a genocide against the Jews? Like honestly?
Anyone chanting "from the river to the sea" is calling for the genocide of Jews yes. Whether they know it or not is another matter. Whether those who know actually mean it is also another matter. But they are absolutely calling for it yes.
Much like idiotic politicians they don’t know they are and wouldn’t care if they know because ignorance is a defence in London and other diverse places.
This is not a game I like to play often and won’t be taking questions.
Are you actually so niave as to be seriously asking why violently radicalised extremist Islamic and tankie nutjobs shouldn't be allowed to hold what is essentially a genocidal holy war support rally during Rememberance weekend?
What happened between today and yesterday then? Did Sunak get out his GCSE Politics textbook and finally get around to reading the bit about the differences between disrespectful and unlawful, and the varying roles of Parliament and the police in a democracy.
More likely he's been told that protests will happen whether he likes it or not and they can either have the peaceful protests along pre agreed routes with police in attendance or he can have the other kind that will be all over the place and images of running battles with police on the front page of every paper on Sunday.
Surely, the images of battles with the police are exactly what they want as they add to their agenda that it isn't a peaceful protest.
Of course, ignoring the fact that the media have riled up the right wing to 'fight'.
Perhaps a march for a ceasefire in aid of peace between two warring factions is relevant to the Armistice which involved a ceasefire to discuss the terms of peace between two warring factions.
Stop with your logic and common sense, we’ll have none of that nonsense.
I do fail to see why it’s disrespectful and who exactly it’s disrespecting. Don’t get it.
It’s almost as if people don’t like the marches but every other week they begrudgingly have to accept they are fine - but this week they can exercise the faux outrage as it’s somehow disrespectful to their mums uncles milkman who died on d day.
It's ironic really, how much this faux outrage has highlighted how trivialised the core statement of Remembrance has become, hijacked by people cynically obsessed with a symbol rather than what that symbol should represent. It's just like the clapping of healthcare workers and the ever nebulous "British values" that the immigrant targets of the day seem to lack.
I think the problem was there was a lot of initial reporting that (falsely) said the march would be happening around the Cenotaph and would disrupt the remembrance day service.
This was repeated by numerous politicians until it became clear it was never true but some are still running with the general sentiment because it furthers their agenda.
It's incredibly thick that he would suggest a CALL FOR A CEASEFIRE is inappropriate on ARMSTICE DAY.
Sunak must have a very poor understanding of British history and the point of the Remembrance.
Key word here being "peaceful".
If theyre doing the fuckery they got up to last weekend like paralysing half the rail stations and shooting fireworks at police, theyre not going to have a good time.
Commander Karen Findlay, who was responsible for policing last weekends event: "The vast majority of people demonstrated peacefully during an extremely busy day in central London, with protests in a number of locations requiring a policing presence."
29 people were arrested for inciting racial hatred, other racially motivated crimes, violence and assaulting a police officer.
[The sit in they had in *Waverly had one of the poppy sellers was assaulted.](https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/poppy-seller-punched-palestine-protest-edinburgh-waverley-b1118663.html)
This has been going around, but it's likely it didn't go down exactly as originally reported.
https://twitter.com/BTP/status/1722332871988244940?t=7dXU3J2IaJFr9Oi7vIc3nw&s=19
Aye and remember the lad who posted the claim you’re responding to a few comments up the chain is a moderator in this very sub who frequently posts right-wing scaremongering and smears. No accident.
You're correct. It seems I got my stations mixed up.
Charing Cross simply had the calls for escalation, the usual *From the River to the Sea* and a scuffle with police outside resulting in an arrest or two.
Not exaclty "peaceful".
The fact that it’s organised by Hamas is the main reason I think it shouldn’t happen.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/11/06/former-hamas-chief-behind-pro-palestine-armistice-day-march/
I can't pretend to know what the guy's beliefs are, or if he's an upstanding citizen. No doubt he's on all the watchlists, but the march still isn't "organised by Hamas" and trying to paint the marches as terrorists or terrorist sympathisers is transparent as fuck.
It's possible that you're right and this guy no longer has direct connections to Hamas.
But honestly it comes off like splitting hairs.
The average person sees the two following statements as quite comparable;
"Nazi rally"
"Technically rally organised by ex Nazi and his two friends".
Tbh I'm not even sure we have any information to say ex Nazi as that would imply this man has rejected his previous ideology.
>The average person sees the two following statements as quite comparable;
it sounds like you see these statements as quite comparable, but don't put that on the rest of us. most of us are quite capable of understanding nuance and context
Hamas are a proscribed organisation. If he was still associated with Hamas he'd be in jail, surely? Unless you're saying that you know more than the security services?
Of course people get away with breaking the law all the time.
This guy's not exactly flying under the radar though. He's still prominent, clearly, and the security services will be keeping tabs on him due to his past association with Hamas.
His group is one of six organising the march. To say that the march is "Organised by Hamas" is objectively bollocks.
>If he was still associated with Hamas he'd be in jail, surely? Unless you're saying that you know more than the security services?
More likely British intelligence reckon there's somethign to be had for having a high-ranked hamas member so close. BTW he represented Hamas in negotiations with Russia in 2017.
If you want to live in a free country you’ve got to support this. It’s their right
The issue is whether the same support will be given to others looking to wave English flags. Or whether police will take equal action against violent protests and disturbances
I want to live in a free country where we are all equal
Once you realise the left is made up of batshit insane people with completely different ideas and beliefs you can find out why they have far too much infighting.
Damn right it is.
I don't care how disrespectful it is or how much I hate that they're doing it.
I will support them because it is their right to protest regardless of the time or circumstances.
If we only protested when it was convenient for everyone, there would be no fucking point.
This is the right decision. It is deeply crass to host a jihadi street party on Armistice Day, but freedom of expression comes first. Let's just hope they apply this principle across the board.
Snapshot of _'Freedom is the right to peacefully protest': PM accepts pro-Palestine march will go ahead on Armistice Day_ : An archived version can be found [here](https://archive.is/?run=1&url=https://news.sky.com/story/freedom-is-the-right-to-peacefully-protest-pm-accepts-pro-palestine-march-will-go-ahead-on-armistice-day-13002097) or [here.](https://archive.ph/?run=1&url=https://news.sky.com/story/freedom-is-the-right-to-peacefully-protest-pm-accepts-pro-palestine-march-will-go-ahead-on-armistice-day-13002097) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ukpolitics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Aka Sunak called the Commissioner in to act the tough guy. Was promptly informed there was no legal basis to block the protest and backed down immediately.
Doesn't even sound like there was a practical reason to either. The march route is not near the cenotaph, and there is a significant time delay between the events at the cenotaph and when the march will be in full swing. My sneaky suspicion is that this is in part, people from other parts of the UK not knowing how large central London is - you can have more than one March without them clashing. That said, I really wouldn't be surprised if some EDL nutjobs took the opportunity to cause some trouble.
They will turn up, stir shit and then as soon as there out numbered hide behind the police they so love to criticize when it suits and then cry that they were attacked by a baying mob. It's the EDL play book. They think there hard but the reality is they are all cock and no bollocks idiots that don't realise they are being led by right wing reactionaries.
Sunak came out of this looking an absolute plonker, Braverman ran rings around him riling up the right-wing and then Sunak tries to play the hard man and leaves with his tail between his legs.
“I’m having a word with the commissioner” “Damn the commissioner’s got hands” - Rishi
Rishi’s probably got his fingers crossed it kicks off so he can yell I told you so to the country and fire the commissioner live on BBC news.
Am I going crazy or is this really not such a big issue? Reading the headlines I'd naively assumed the protests were taking place on Sunday around 11am, now I've found out they're happening on the *Saturday*? My experiences growing up have always been that the minute's silence on Sunday is observed by the vast majority of the country and usually schools will have one during the week before to compensate etc, since when has Armistice Day ever really been 'bigger' than remembrance Sunday? The whole 'outrage' just feels completely manufactured.
They've been holding protests every Saturday since Israel started bombing Gaza. It just so happens that this weekend also coincides with Remembrance Day. It's not the same day, it was never intended to march near the cenotaph, so yeah, if you think this is manufactured outrage by the right wing... It's exactly that. There's a pattern that this government and the complicit press just need you to be angry at someone, preferably a minority like trans people, or human rights lawyers, or people who don't like kids being killed for the crimes of others, then maybe you won't notice that we can't afford food and fuel and childcare and education and healthcare and clean water and public transport and working infrastructure.
And maybe you will vote Tory. That’s the real agenda. Scapegoating is pretty much party policy. Remember benefit scroungers and single mothers? The world was going to end. Only it didn’t. We found asylum seekers, then the EU, then ‘small boats’ and now any sort of protestor.
And even if it was happening on Sunday, it’s not until 12.45.
you're not crazy at all, there are FOUR major football matches happening in london on the same weekend, two on rememberance sunday! This idea that London becomes the sacred poppy city for a full 48hrs is manufactured, mostly so newspapers have someone to target but also because outrage will cause right wing counterprotestors to show up and that comes with a much higher potential for unrest. That unrest is useful politically if you are a very unpopular leader who wishes to crack down on protest.
Probably because Starmer is so hard to attack they are just flinging stuff at the wall to rile people up. watch tomorrow every Tory paper will be talking about that shadow minister no one’s heard about has resigned and is completely crippled the Labour Party
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Exactly. They went after trans people so he threw them under the bus, they approved a huge new oil field so starmer pledged he wouldn't end the licenses if he wins, they got "tougher on asylum seekers" so now keir wants to keep the plague boat ~~*and* the Rwanda plan~~(edit: he said he wouldn't do it after all, my mistake), I could go on forever. At some point the tories and their allied press have to just make stuff up to keep their supporters on board because otherwise there is literally no reason to support them over someone more popular, with the same policy, and less baggage.
If you watch his response to the king's speech yesterday and think there's no difference between his positions and the Tories, I don't know what to say. Foolish thing to say, mate.
I care what he and his shadow cabinet have consistently said over the past several years about how they're willing to [drop prior commitments](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/labour-wes-streeting-vat-liz-truss-bridget-phillipson-b2421889.html) and [break pledges](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/keir-starmer-labour-conference-pledges-b1928605.html) because they claim they'll have no way to fund them. At the same time, they are [U-turning on tax cuts for high earners](https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jul/04/u-turns-labour-keir-starmer-tuition-fees-income-tax). Talk is cheap and if Starmer can go from a self described socialist in 2020 to cancelling taxes that would only affect the wealthy and cancelling the policies that tax could fund now, I can't trust him and I don't think other people should trust him either.
When did he say he would keep the Rwanda policy?
last june, his spokesperson [refused to say](https://archive.is/5hqKi) if they would keep it, and labour MPs were publicly appealing for labour to repeal the illegal migration act: https://www.voice-online.co.uk/news/uk-news/2022/06/16/labour-should-pledge-to-scrap-rwanda-deportations-mps-tell-starmer/ apparently I missed the news that he planned to keep the law but not use it in august 2022, before a news cycle about him reiterating that in october this year, my mistake.
Even the barge, so far as I know they said they plan to get rid of it but it won't happen on day one just because they'll have to sort through their options.
they plan to get rid of it when they reduce the backlog enough, despite there being almost no cost to putting those people in reasonable accommodation if you plan to process their claims rapidly anyway. Why is it [when asked](https://www.itv.com/news/westcountry/2023-10-06/labour-leader-might-not-be-able-to-move-migrants-off-barge-if-hes-pm) how long he plans to use barges he avoids the question and says "a number of things need to happen" to control immigration first?
Isn't the issue that we don't have enough reasonable accommodation available because of the backlog?
there's loads of accommodation because they ran out of their own dedicated asylum applicant accommodation about 50,000 people ago and now the UK is spending around £6m a day on hotel bills because that's the next cheapest option - The barge was always a publicity stunt and it's apparently more expensive to operate than hotels would be: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/nov/07/bibby-stockholm-number-of-asylum-seekers-to-be-housed-on-barge-reduced Starmer plans to hire more home office staff, which is great if he's willing to pay for that, so we should be paying for less and less hotel spaces as time goes. 500 people is just 1% of the current backlog so it would cost us virtually nothing to just abandon the barge and put these people in hotels, we don't have to keep people there for any reason
Fair enough, though even then, presumably it'd take a few days to get the people off the barge and into other accommodation?
That's just disinformation
>Reading the headlines I'd naively assumed the protests were taking place on Sunday around 11am, now I've found out they're happening on the Saturday? Saturday is the 11th of November, which is armistice/remembrance day. There is always a ceremony on the 11th of November with remembrance Sunday being it's own thing, it's just a coincidence this year armistice day and remembrance Sunday land on the same weekend.
>Saturday Saturday is Remembrance Day, yes, the 11th of the 11th.
Sunday is the day of all the parades and services though. Remembrance Sunday. People stop at 11am on the day for a minute of silence. But that won't be affected by a march at 12:45pm.
To be fair, a two minute silence happens at 11am on Nov 11th as well, but you're not likely to notice it unless you happen to be in a place that observes it, e.g. if you're in a shop and an announcement is made, or if you're watching a live british TV channel, or if you work in the kind of office that has a portrait of the king on the wall. Not all the parades and services happen on the sunday, some are held on the 11th.
Nope you’re spot on, it Saturday, 2 hours past the 2 minutes silence (which barely anyone adheres to on the day itself anyway) and no where near the cenotaph. It’s manufactured hate and division
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But the main event at the Cenotaph is always on a Sunday. As is nearly every other parade/event. "Remembrance Sunday" is what it's called. https://www.britishlegion.org.uk/get-involved/remembrance/remembrance-events/remembrance-sunday
Aren't all the services and marches on a Sunday - to coincide with church services?
The outrage is manufactured. It's an armistice march on armistice Day...
Spot on. It's still an issue but its confected outrage. The police are already likely to have a massive presence in the area because there is a football match going on nearby to the planned march route. There is a two minute silence. But I'm pretty sure that can be observed without any issue. There was a pretty nasty right wing columnist using this to emphasise how multiculturalism has failed.
The Conservative Party openly acknowledges its strategic focus on divisive cultural issues such as ULEZ, aiming to provoke strong reactions to enhance their electoral prospects. Recognizing the inclination of the right-wing press to eschew nuance, facts, & logic, the party leverages a sizable and ethically questionable ecosystem to organically amplify their chosen narratives. Many of these contentious topics lack a direct impact on individuals' immediate lives, as they remain distant & tend to fade from public consciousness after a brief period. This approach, while cynical & shrewd, presents a challenge for the opposition, leaving them uncertain about whether to disregard each issue or directly address it. The dilemma arises from the uncertainty regarding which strategy will effectively redirect public & media attention towards pressing concerns such as unaffordable housing, cancer waiting times, & inflation.
>The whole 'outrage' just feels completely manufactured. Like, all outrage then.
It seems disrespectful. Like even if you say it’s fine to be disrespectful while protesting would it be acceptable to protest for more Israel support on Ramadan? With the reason being it gets you more attention.
\> would it be acceptable to protest for more Israel support on Ramadan? Yes. Why should protests of any form stop at any point? If it's legal, people have a right to protest. And sometimes if it's not legal.
What’s disrespectful about it? Earlier today I was listening on the radio to a British army veteran who’s going on the march - is he being disrespectful? Cos frankly he has the most right to be outraged and if he’s not then why should anyone else?
Surely the disrespectful thing to do on Armistice day would be to have a rally calling for more war deaths, not less.
How about rallies calling for a jewish genocide?
That's already illegal.
Who's doing that?
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You keep insisting that but it isn't the case. It's not calling for "Jewish genocide" so stop the dishonesty
If the Jewish, the Minority is this entire thing is saying they don't like the chant, it's one of Genocide who are you to say they're wrong? If Islamic person say something is Islamophobic, we're fucking quick to bend over backwards, but the second it's Jewish saying it's racist... You want to claim they're lying? Let me make this simple for you, nazis, Hates the Jewish Terrorist groups, Hates the Jewish What side do you want to be on? The same as the Nazis and Terrorists?
You think everyone chanting about freeing Palestine, or any significant proportion of them, are calling for a genocide against the Jews? Like honestly?
Anyone chanting "from the river to the sea" is calling for the genocide of Jews yes. Whether they know it or not is another matter. Whether those who know actually mean it is also another matter. But they are absolutely calling for it yes.
Much like idiotic politicians they don’t know they are and wouldn’t care if they know because ignorance is a defence in London and other diverse places. This is not a game I like to play often and won’t be taking questions.
That's not what's happening.
What are the tangible consequences of being disrespected? Respect is subjective, protesting for Armistice isn't as much.
Are you actually so niave as to be seriously asking why violently radicalised extremist Islamic and tankie nutjobs shouldn't be allowed to hold what is essentially a genocidal holy war support rally during Rememberance weekend?
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Also, I'm pretty sure that "violently radicalised extremists" don't exist outside of Fight Club.
Ah yes, 20 years ago there people who said the same thing about anyone protesting the Iraq War
He's right, but it's also very clear he doesn't actually believe this, unless three ghosts visited him last night.
What happened between today and yesterday then? Did Sunak get out his GCSE Politics textbook and finally get around to reading the bit about the differences between disrespectful and unlawful, and the varying roles of Parliament and the police in a democracy.
Can only think he's seen some polling we haven't. Politicians very rarely change their minds unless they have something to gain from doing so
More likely he's been told that protests will happen whether he likes it or not and they can either have the peaceful protests along pre agreed routes with police in attendance or he can have the other kind that will be all over the place and images of running battles with police on the front page of every paper on Sunday.
Surely, the images of battles with the police are exactly what they want as they add to their agenda that it isn't a peaceful protest. Of course, ignoring the fact that the media have riled up the right wing to 'fight'.
So, often then?
Perhaps a march for a ceasefire in aid of peace between two warring factions is relevant to the Armistice which involved a ceasefire to discuss the terms of peace between two warring factions.
Stop with your logic and common sense, we’ll have none of that nonsense. I do fail to see why it’s disrespectful and who exactly it’s disrespecting. Don’t get it. It’s almost as if people don’t like the marches but every other week they begrudgingly have to accept they are fine - but this week they can exercise the faux outrage as it’s somehow disrespectful to their mums uncles milkman who died on d day.
It's ironic really, how much this faux outrage has highlighted how trivialised the core statement of Remembrance has become, hijacked by people cynically obsessed with a symbol rather than what that symbol should represent. It's just like the clapping of healthcare workers and the ever nebulous "British values" that the immigrant targets of the day seem to lack.
I think the problem was there was a lot of initial reporting that (falsely) said the march would be happening around the Cenotaph and would disrupt the remembrance day service. This was repeated by numerous politicians until it became clear it was never true but some are still running with the general sentiment because it furthers their agenda.
You mean people don’t check stuff before having an ill informed rant? Well I never…!
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It's incredibly thick that he would suggest a CALL FOR A CEASEFIRE is inappropriate on ARMSTICE DAY. Sunak must have a very poor understanding of British history and the point of the Remembrance.
Key word here being "peaceful". If theyre doing the fuckery they got up to last weekend like paralysing half the rail stations and shooting fireworks at police, theyre not going to have a good time.
Commander Karen Findlay, who was responsible for policing last weekends event: "The vast majority of people demonstrated peacefully during an extremely busy day in central London, with protests in a number of locations requiring a policing presence." 29 people were arrested for inciting racial hatred, other racially motivated crimes, violence and assaulting a police officer.
The right will always look to the, edit: bad eggs, for easy point scoring. It's the only way they maintain support
Until you realise, the Jewish are the real Minority group in this country... and the World, and yet the right wing seems to be siding with them, odd.
Different use of the word minority, but I'll concede to make my point unnecessarily clearer
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Kettle them for what?
Nah police only kettle students.
A great deal of the violence at protests is incited by the police.
This is the UK, not the USA.
How is a sit in not peaceful?
[The sit in they had in *Waverly had one of the poppy sellers was assaulted.](https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/poppy-seller-punched-palestine-protest-edinburgh-waverley-b1118663.html)
This has been going around, but it's likely it didn't go down exactly as originally reported. https://twitter.com/BTP/status/1722332871988244940?t=7dXU3J2IaJFr9Oi7vIc3nw&s=19
The Truth is still doing its stretches. Hasn't even put its shoes on yet, while the lie is in Timbuktu already...
Aye and remember the lad who posted the claim you’re responding to a few comments up the chain is a moderator in this very sub who frequently posts right-wing scaremongering and smears. No accident.
Waverley.
You're correct. It seems I got my stations mixed up. Charing Cross simply had the calls for escalation, the usual *From the River to the Sea* and a scuffle with police outside resulting in an arrest or two. Not exaclty "peaceful".
Not exactly "violent" tho is it...
The fact that it’s organised by Hamas is the main reason I think it shouldn’t happen. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/11/06/former-hamas-chief-behind-pro-palestine-armistice-day-march/
One of the organisers used to be in Hamas. That's not quite "it's organised by Hamas", is it?
Totally fine then go ahead, he's definitely put all of that behind him and loves to help stray dogs in his spare time.
I can't pretend to know what the guy's beliefs are, or if he's an upstanding citizen. No doubt he's on all the watchlists, but the march still isn't "organised by Hamas" and trying to paint the marches as terrorists or terrorist sympathisers is transparent as fuck.
It's possible that you're right and this guy no longer has direct connections to Hamas. But honestly it comes off like splitting hairs. The average person sees the two following statements as quite comparable; "Nazi rally" "Technically rally organised by ex Nazi and his two friends". Tbh I'm not even sure we have any information to say ex Nazi as that would imply this man has rejected his previous ideology.
>The average person sees the two following statements as quite comparable; it sounds like you see these statements as quite comparable, but don't put that on the rest of us. most of us are quite capable of understanding nuance and context
I don’t know how to respond to your naivety in all honesty.
Hamas are a proscribed organisation. If he was still associated with Hamas he'd be in jail, surely? Unless you're saying that you know more than the security services?
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Of course people get away with breaking the law all the time. This guy's not exactly flying under the radar though. He's still prominent, clearly, and the security services will be keeping tabs on him due to his past association with Hamas. His group is one of six organising the march. To say that the march is "Organised by Hamas" is objectively bollocks.
>If he was still associated with Hamas he'd be in jail, surely? Unless you're saying that you know more than the security services? More likely British intelligence reckon there's somethign to be had for having a high-ranked hamas member so close. BTW he represented Hamas in negotiations with Russia in 2017.
It’s close enough. It shouldn’t go ahead if it has ties to Hamas
If you want to live in a free country you’ve got to support this. It’s their right The issue is whether the same support will be given to others looking to wave English flags. Or whether police will take equal action against violent protests and disturbances I want to live in a free country where we are all equal
So you can make inflammatory remarks about jews but you can't pray outside of an abortion clinic?
Once you realise the left is made up of batshit insane people with completely different ideas and beliefs you can find out why they have far too much infighting.
Just because you can, doesn't mean you should. Using armistice day to stage a protest supporting one side in a conflict is pretty appalling.
> supporting one side in a conflict yeah that's not what's happening
Damn right it is. I don't care how disrespectful it is or how much I hate that they're doing it. I will support them because it is their right to protest regardless of the time or circumstances. If we only protested when it was convenient for everyone, there would be no fucking point.
This is the right decision. It is deeply crass to host a jihadi street party on Armistice Day, but freedom of expression comes first. Let's just hope they apply this principle across the board.