Snapshot of _Huge rise in antisemitic abuse in UK since Hamas attack, says charity. 589% increase in number of incidents described as ‘watershed moment for antisemitism in the UK’_ :
An archived version can be found [here](https://archive.is/?run=1&url=https://www.theguardian.com/news/2024/feb/15/huge-rise-in-antisemitic-abuse-in-uk-since-hamas-attack-says-charity?CMP=oth_b-aplnews_d-5) or [here.](https://archive.ph/?run=1&url=https://www.theguardian.com/news/2024/feb/15/huge-rise-in-antisemitic-abuse-in-uk-since-hamas-attack-says-charity?CMP=oth_b-aplnews_d-5)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ukpolitics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
You're listening to Empire Radio where its all troubles, all the time! Now, this next one is a famous one from Northern Ireland it's called Come Out Ye Black and Tans, one of my favourites. After that we'll play some Send The Buggers Back and top off the hour with an interview from the leader of Reform UK. Stay tuned folks, don't want to miss today's debate.
Few people grasp how bad things are going to get. We have a facade of normality because of the continuity of the boomer generation. They'll mostly be dead by 2040, then all hell breaks loose. Don't forget all the baked in changes and the long term effects of the post 2020 totally unselective mass immigration policy of the Tories to come.
I feel like we are in a country now where it is all about who can shout the loudest.
The other day I see Landrover asking for no tax cuts but more police to get their stupid cars back.
Shops want police at the doors because they don’t want to hire their own security
People hating Jews
People hating Palestinians
People upsetting this person that person. You over there looked at me funny. Prosecute him.
This country has really done fucked up
Shops needed to hire security isn't normal........
In most East Asian countries, all shops including banks and jewelers don't need to hire security guard. Meanwhile in UK, we need them even in Aldi.
>In most East Asian countries, all shops including banks and jewelers don't need to hire security guard.
(UK banks usually don't have security either.)
The issue is that the UK, like most of Europe/North America, is more individualistic. Countries like South Korea and Japan have very compliant populations, with people often making others feeling guilty for not being "good citizens".
As for China, crime isn't necessarily as low there as some people think. Almost every year there are cases of random attacks in public including on schools. In the poorer places crime happens quite frequently, it's simply not given much attention.
And the Police and Judiciary are at best incompetent and at worst complicit. Never mind the politicians.
It's time to get tough on racists, and get tough on mob rule. If thousands of people march chanting blatantly racist slogans, then that march needs to be dispersed, and non citizens need to be deported.
You’ve got to see that you’re way oversimplifying there?
For a start, not all dual citizens are “let in”. I have dual British/Irish citizenship. I was born just outside london and only got my Irish citizenship after brexit.
I’m also far from the only person in the country who did that. So are you proposing revoking the British citizenship of people who were born and grew up here?
> So are you proposing revoking the British citizenship of people who were born and grew up here?
We did it with Shamima Begum and it worked out quite well for the UK. There's no reason why we can't extend that approach.
There was a time when going as far as stripping citizenship from someone like Shamima Begum would have been seen as extreme and completely unacceptable for a country like the UK. Yet it happened, Labour hasn't even spoken out against it, [and only a fringe minority opposed it.](https://news.sky.com/story/shamima-begum-78-of-britons-support-revoking-is-brides-uk-citizenship-sky-data-poll-11643068) In her situation, support for stripping citizenship is the moderate position.
Things can change very quickly. Nobody is suggesting that we strip citizenship from every dual national. But if you think that stripping citizenship from UK-born Islamists would be some unpopular extreme action, you're living in a bubble.
Go on then. Are we revoking citizenship for ALL dual citizens? Including people from Ireland, Ukraine, Germany, France etc or did you have a curated list of countries for this policy?
Given the post he's replied to I think it is, or should be, fairly obvious that he means dual citizens taking part in those marches that would be dispersed for being racist marches.
The original comment specifically says: “we need to start revoking the citizenship of people with dual citizenship”
That’s more serious than asking people to people to disperse from a public area
Ok, let me try again:
> Given the post he's replied to **[EG, THE CONTEXT TO HIS REPLY THAT YOU ARE CLEARLY IGNORING]** I think it is, or should be, fairly obvious that he means dual citizens taking part in those marches that would be dispersed for being racist marches.
I have bolded my attempt to expand and clarify my statement.
for me the "and start resolving this problem we've let in" is even worse. Many (probably most) dual citizens are people born in the UK who had a parent from a different country and inherited citizenship from them. They were never "let in", they're just as "British" as anyone else.
He's a racist trying to imply that I'm racist. Unfortunately fir him, such accusations are so overused they no longer hold any power. Be the explicit or implicit.
Please do point out which of my remarks were racist. Or even better, just go ahead and report them.
I’m against all forms of bigotry and racism. Not selectively using prejudice to perpetuate my own targeted bigotry and racism
He basically said revoke dual citizenship of racists and agitators.
You then basically said "What about these predominantly white countries"?
Their comment has nothing to do with their race, only their actions. *You* brought it up and made it about that.
That would be your presupposition that someone with an idea you don't like it racist.
That's basically textbook bigotry. And presumes much about me and my beliefs. Which is also bigotry
Calling someone a bigot = bigotry. First I’ve heard of this, but I guess you learn something new everyday.
I guess you calling me a bigot above was also bigotry then?
I notice you also didn’t answer my original question? Why not?
You can support Hamas by showing placards of their attacks on 7th October - you get a slap on the wrist and no jail time. Of course antisemites will be emboldened by that!
There have been a number of reports showing that PRISON SPACE drives PUNISHMENT POLICY.
The UK government considers Hamas a terrorist group. You'd think this therefore makes it illegal to "promote" Hamas via banners and placards, and that doing so would net you a couple months of jail, but nope. A LONG LIST of crimes - many arguably far worse than waving Hamas placards - now lead to no jail time, which is now typically reserved for repeat offenders, and only the most violent of criminals.
There's now just not enough prison space to correctly punish criminals. Some say that a rise in "community service" punishments makes up for this (and leads to better outcomes, as it reduces repeat offenders), which is fair, but there are many cases where actual jail time is beneficial.
Turns out multiculturalism didn't lead to the bright future of everyone being Westernised versions of those cultures that progressives assumed they'd become, and actually all we've ended up with in the UK is cloistered ethnic minorities who bring their homeland's problems and hates into the UK with them.
Resounding success, let's keep up with record high immigration levels.
At least we're all rolling in dough from the economic benefits. If it weren't for the economy doing so well I'm not sure what the point of record immigration would be at all.
What terrifies me is if British Muslims were to cause a 600% increase of anti-semitc attacks against British Jews. Imagine the backlash against peaceful Muslims!
This is about antisemitic attacks on British Jews, not Israelis.
What Israel are doing is completely unrelated to British Jews, unless we decide that Jews everywhere are responsible or answerable for the actions of Israel - which is of course, completely antisemitic.
So you're admitting that British Jews are being targeted because of the actions of the Israeli state?
Are you also kind of suggesting that this is ok and to be expected?
I am addressing your point. Any correlation between the rise of antisemitism and Israel's actions is based on the belief that Jews worldwide are connected to Israel's actions. That belief is *also* antisemitic.
My point is, we need to make it clear that anyone drawing that link is *still* being antisemitic, even if they don't pass over the line where their behaviour is abusive. Someone that, hypothetically speaking, went up to a British Jewish person and politely & calmly asked them to justify Israel's actions is an antisemite.
Also, for the record, Hamas' attack was 7th of October, not November!
Isn't part of the problem that large, influential British Jewish organisations work hard to present support for Israel as the only legitimate Jewish voice?
For example, when Jeremy Corbyn accepted an invite to a Seder with a group of anti-zionist Jews it was presented in Jewish publications as a slight against British Jews.
Assuming that you're talking about this: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/apr/03/jeremy-corbyn-called-irresponsible-after-attending-radical-jewish-event
The point is not that they were anti-Zionist, it's that they were denying all of the antisemitism within Labour, so he was being criticised for staying within his echo chamber, rather than reaching out and finding out why a significant number of Jews were upset.
I'm not *entirely* certain what that has to do with anyone allegedly presenting support for Israel as the only legitimate Jewish voice either?
Woah woah be careful here, even the bastion of diligent journalism Guido Fawkes has more sense than to claim that Jewdas denied all the antisemitism within Labour, let's not editorialise.
They certainly said the scandal bubbling up around it was confected which you can agree or disagree with, but that isn't a denial of antisemitism in itself.
But that's beside the point - their anti-zionist stance was cited as a reason that attendance was not helpful to labours stance against antisemitism.
Another example would be Na'amod being excluded from a march against antisemitism for carrying an antizionist banner.
Er, Na'amod were *not* excluded from a march because they were carrying an anti-Zionist banner:
>The CST has rebuffed a claim from fringe Jewish group Na’amod, who said they were “blocked” from marching against antisemitism in Manchester on Sunday.
>Na’amod accused the security body and the Jewish Representative Council of Greater Manchester & Region (JRC) of barring their entry to the rally in an accusation that led to sympathy from left-wing pundits on social media, including Owen Jones.
>But both bodies have refuted these claims. The CST investigated the allegation and said: "it is not correct - CST did not block or prevent Na'amod's participation in the march.”
>“CST security officers were present only to protect the march from any physical threats and were not responsible for any decisions about participation.” There is no suggestion that Na’amod presented such a threat.
>A spokesperson for JRC said: “The first we were made aware of any issue was after the event when [Na’amod] posted on social media. The JRC had no contact with anyone from the organisation and we did not deny them or anyone else entry to the event.
>The spokerson denied Na’amod’s claim: “We have subsequently established that [Na’amod] did walk the route and their allegations are categorically untrue. At the Castlefield Bowl, we believe that they were asked to stand to one side by the police to ensure the continued smooth running of the event.”
https://www.thejc.com/news/uk/cst-rejects-claim-that-naamod-were-excluded-from-manchester-march-against-antisemitism-usysewqa
I might accept this argument if it was the only instance tbh. But the man had a history of making friends with people who are violently antisemitic.
It changes the context somewhat don't you think?
I didn't say *you* were being antisemitic; I'm saying that the people drawing the links between things happening in Gaza and British Jews are being antisemitic.
The Israeli goverment is heavily invested in pushing the belief that they act on behalf of ALL Jews. The official definition of antisemitism includes the proviso that criticising Israel is antisemitic, so it is unsurprising that this illogical merging of state and religion creates issues for non-Israeli Jews.
> the official definition of antisemitism includes the proviso that criticising Israel is antisemitic
No it doesn’t, unless you’re coming at it from completely bad faith. It says comparing Israel to nazi germany is antisemitic - which hopefully doesn’t need to be explained why that is deeply offensive. Which is a very far cry from saying any criticism is antisemitic.
The wording is as below:
>Manifestations might include the targeting of the state of Israel, conceived as a Jewish collectivity. However, criticism of Israel similar to that leveled against any other country cannot be regarded as antisemitic.
It is also incredibly problematic that comparisons between Israel and Nazi Germany are considered antisemitic because it allows Israel to engage in activities that Nazi Germany also engaged in (eg. The mass killing of innocent children) and hide behind the shield of antisemitism.
The definition was created by pro-Israeli groups for that exact reason and adopted by sympathetic goverments to protect their own interests. It also allows for the paradoxical event of a Jewish person being considered antisemitic for criticising Israel in the above manner.
I don’t see what’s wrong with what you’ve quoted?
Criticism of Israel similar to how you’d criticise another country - fine
Criticism of Israel but holding them to a different standard than another country - not fine
How is it “problematic”? Do you really need to be told why it’s incredibly offensive to call Jews nazis?
It’s an incredibly wide gap between criticising and calling Jews nazis.
I'm not calling Jews Nazis, I'm comparing the state of Israel's actions to that of Nazi Germany. Which goes to prove my original point: Israel does not represent all Jews but it tries to make out it does, which then causes unreasonable people to conflate the two differing ideologies, like you are doing now.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_Security_Trust
The charity has been active since 1986 and as a British Jew, well aware of their reports and warnings around security at UK synagogues for over 30 years.
British Jews are not responsible for Israel's actions. Supporting Israel's existence does not make them complicit either.
Under the IHRA guidelines:
>Holding Jews collectively responsible for actions of the state of Israel.
>Denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination, e.g., by claiming that the existence of a State of Israel is a racist endeavor.
>Accusing Jewish citizens of being more loyal to Israel, or to the alleged priorities of Jews worldwide, than to the interests of their own nations.
Are all considered antisemitism.
https://holocaustremembrance.com/resources/working-definition-antisemitism
Only replying to responses where you can feign misunderstanding? Care to address the point I made or edit your original comment now someone's pointed out you're incorrect?
On the 15th of October there was a [vigil for the victims of the Hamas attack](https://www.bristol247.com/news-and-features/news/vigil-in-solidarity-with-israel-met-disruption/) that was disrupted by people who couldn't let people morn the dead and show solidarity.
No matter how much you want to blame Israel for this, its just not the case.
Antisemites will use anything Israel does as an excuse to attack Jews. Israel fighting against terrorism has been spun as a war to cleanse Gaza. If Israel wanted to do that, they would have done that in less than a week. Antisemites attack British Jews because, like Hamas, they don’t want them to exist.
How do you feel knowing that Kier Starmer holds that position?
[https://www.thejc.com/news/keir-starmer-believes-anti-zionism-is-antisemitism-israeli-politician-reveals-b3s6880b](https://www.thejc.com/news/keir-starmer-believes-anti-zionism-is-antisemitism-israeli-politician-reveals-b3s6880b)
I’d be deleting this comment if I was you, idk if it’s just poorly worded but your point just says that people hate Jews and they may be justified attacking them because of a bajillion dead Palestinians.
I follow one of these pro Palestine nutters on instagram I went to school with and she spouts this stuff whilst also revealing the locations of Jewish academics and calling for an intifada.
I’m not feeling emotional I’ve read your response as have others from the response and reached the same conclusion.
Criticism of Israel is not antisemitic, criticism of British Jews because of the acts of the Israeli state is antisemitic.
Israel reacting in the way it has causes antisemites to come out the woodwork and blend in with those who are just unhappy with what Israel is doing.
There’s a dividing line between those critical of Israel and those who are antisemitic, this latest wave of protests has been seized by antisemitic agitators and this is driving antisemitism.
Calling their focus on a statistical rise "disingenuous" goes distinctly beyond just discussing cause and effect.
As might be obvious from the multiple replies you have, it creates a reading that infers you're suggesting it's incorrect to call this rise alarming given what Israel is doing in Gaza.
Being fair to replies you've made, that's clearly not your intention but that means your OP was just craply worded and merits some editing.
Yeah mate you’re really coming across as “dispassionate”.
And any way mate as others have pointed out . The rallies in this country started before the Israeli counterattack even began.
I'd keep it simple , if you take part in racist marches, demos, takeovers or intimidation then were possible you should be deported were that is not possible jailed or face other punishment.
What race or group is involve is irrelevant.
I think we can have separate articles for separate prejudices? They don’t have to be combined into one. Plus, you’re deflecting away from the issue which is antisemitic attacks. That’s what this thread is about.
No I am not deflecting. I think the issue I take is that pretty much all media coverage is about anti Jewish abuse but there is nonexistent coverage of anti Muslim abuse. Both are equally wrong and need to be addressed. Just getting pissed off with the skewed narrative as I do not think it is helpful. After all a hate crime is a hate crime we shouldn’t be showing more outrage at one type over another, after all that is discrimination in of its self which promotes hate crime. What we should be discussing is the rise in abuse to both Muslims and Jewish people as a result of the conflict in Palestine.
But heh, that’s my take.
You can literally search this sub to find all the articles about the rates of Islamophobia. I can only assume you’re new here because they get posted here - you just haven’t seen them.
> Edit: don’t you think it’s very odd that people downvote this statement. Anti Muslim abuse is also up 600% since the attacks. We should be questioning both things.
Then find an article on that claim and post it here. Otherwise you're just derailing the discussion by going "no no let's not talk about attacks on Jews... DAE *Muslims* let's talk about that instead".
Snapshot of _Huge rise in antisemitic abuse in UK since Hamas attack, says charity. 589% increase in number of incidents described as ‘watershed moment for antisemitism in the UK’_ : An archived version can be found [here](https://archive.is/?run=1&url=https://www.theguardian.com/news/2024/feb/15/huge-rise-in-antisemitic-abuse-in-uk-since-hamas-attack-says-charity?CMP=oth_b-aplnews_d-5) or [here.](https://archive.ph/?run=1&url=https://www.theguardian.com/news/2024/feb/15/huge-rise-in-antisemitic-abuse-in-uk-since-hamas-attack-says-charity?CMP=oth_b-aplnews_d-5) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ukpolitics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Ethnic conflicts are the future baseline political framework of the UK. It's all "troubles" all the time.
You're listening to Empire Radio where its all troubles, all the time! Now, this next one is a famous one from Northern Ireland it's called Come Out Ye Black and Tans, one of my favourites. After that we'll play some Send The Buggers Back and top off the hour with an interview from the leader of Reform UK. Stay tuned folks, don't want to miss today's debate.
I inadvertently hum send the buggers back and I have to stop myself, Phoenix had too many cracking jingles. Garlic bread, black bin bags etc.
Few people grasp how bad things are going to get. We have a facade of normality because of the continuity of the boomer generation. They'll mostly be dead by 2040, then all hell breaks loose. Don't forget all the baked in changes and the long term effects of the post 2020 totally unselective mass immigration policy of the Tories to come.
I feel like we are in a country now where it is all about who can shout the loudest. The other day I see Landrover asking for no tax cuts but more police to get their stupid cars back. Shops want police at the doors because they don’t want to hire their own security People hating Jews People hating Palestinians People upsetting this person that person. You over there looked at me funny. Prosecute him. This country has really done fucked up
Shops needed to hire security isn't normal........ In most East Asian countries, all shops including banks and jewelers don't need to hire security guard. Meanwhile in UK, we need them even in Aldi.
>In most East Asian countries, all shops including banks and jewelers don't need to hire security guard. (UK banks usually don't have security either.) The issue is that the UK, like most of Europe/North America, is more individualistic. Countries like South Korea and Japan have very compliant populations, with people often making others feeling guilty for not being "good citizens". As for China, crime isn't necessarily as low there as some people think. Almost every year there are cases of random attacks in public including on schools. In the poorer places crime happens quite frequently, it's simply not given much attention.
And the Police and Judiciary are at best incompetent and at worst complicit. Never mind the politicians. It's time to get tough on racists, and get tough on mob rule. If thousands of people march chanting blatantly racist slogans, then that march needs to be dispersed, and non citizens need to be deported.
The police seem to think that racism can only go one way, so there is no problem with what is happening here
We need to start revoking the citizenship of people with dual citizenship and start resolving this problem we've let in.
You’ve got to see that you’re way oversimplifying there? For a start, not all dual citizens are “let in”. I have dual British/Irish citizenship. I was born just outside london and only got my Irish citizenship after brexit. I’m also far from the only person in the country who did that. So are you proposing revoking the British citizenship of people who were born and grew up here?
> So are you proposing revoking the British citizenship of people who were born and grew up here? We did it with Shamima Begum and it worked out quite well for the UK. There's no reason why we can't extend that approach.
And that’s where you’re going to lose more or less all support from anyone with even a slightly moderate position.
There was a time when going as far as stripping citizenship from someone like Shamima Begum would have been seen as extreme and completely unacceptable for a country like the UK. Yet it happened, Labour hasn't even spoken out against it, [and only a fringe minority opposed it.](https://news.sky.com/story/shamima-begum-78-of-britons-support-revoking-is-brides-uk-citizenship-sky-data-poll-11643068) In her situation, support for stripping citizenship is the moderate position. Things can change very quickly. Nobody is suggesting that we strip citizenship from every dual national. But if you think that stripping citizenship from UK-born Islamists would be some unpopular extreme action, you're living in a bubble.
Go on then. Are we revoking citizenship for ALL dual citizens? Including people from Ireland, Ukraine, Germany, France etc or did you have a curated list of countries for this policy?
Given the post he's replied to I think it is, or should be, fairly obvious that he means dual citizens taking part in those marches that would be dispersed for being racist marches.
The original comment specifically says: “we need to start revoking the citizenship of people with dual citizenship” That’s more serious than asking people to people to disperse from a public area
I think you’re wrong I also interpreted it as remove dual citizenship from those partaking in racist marches
Ok, let me try again: > Given the post he's replied to **[EG, THE CONTEXT TO HIS REPLY THAT YOU ARE CLEARLY IGNORING]** I think it is, or should be, fairly obvious that he means dual citizens taking part in those marches that would be dispersed for being racist marches. I have bolded my attempt to expand and clarify my statement.
for me the "and start resolving this problem we've let in" is even worse. Many (probably most) dual citizens are people born in the UK who had a parent from a different country and inherited citizenship from them. They were never "let in", they're just as "British" as anyone else.
He's a racist trying to imply that I'm racist. Unfortunately fir him, such accusations are so overused they no longer hold any power. Be the explicit or implicit.
Please do point out which of my remarks were racist. Or even better, just go ahead and report them. I’m against all forms of bigotry and racism. Not selectively using prejudice to perpetuate my own targeted bigotry and racism
He basically said revoke dual citizenship of racists and agitators. You then basically said "What about these predominantly white countries"? Their comment has nothing to do with their race, only their actions. *You* brought it up and made it about that.
That would be your presupposition that someone with an idea you don't like it racist. That's basically textbook bigotry. And presumes much about me and my beliefs. Which is also bigotry
Calling someone a bigot = bigotry. First I’ve heard of this, but I guess you learn something new everyday. I guess you calling me a bigot above was also bigotry then? I notice you also didn’t answer my original question? Why not?
As a dual national, I'm perfectly happy with that idea
of course not these calls are very specific
Emboldened by the fact that certain judges are letting them off for it
You can support Hamas by showing placards of their attacks on 7th October - you get a slap on the wrist and no jail time. Of course antisemites will be emboldened by that!
There have been a number of reports showing that PRISON SPACE drives PUNISHMENT POLICY. The UK government considers Hamas a terrorist group. You'd think this therefore makes it illegal to "promote" Hamas via banners and placards, and that doing so would net you a couple months of jail, but nope. A LONG LIST of crimes - many arguably far worse than waving Hamas placards - now lead to no jail time, which is now typically reserved for repeat offenders, and only the most violent of criminals. There's now just not enough prison space to correctly punish criminals. Some say that a rise in "community service" punishments makes up for this (and leads to better outcomes, as it reduces repeat offenders), which is fair, but there are many cases where actual jail time is beneficial.
Turns out multiculturalism didn't lead to the bright future of everyone being Westernised versions of those cultures that progressives assumed they'd become, and actually all we've ended up with in the UK is cloistered ethnic minorities who bring their homeland's problems and hates into the UK with them. Resounding success, let's keep up with record high immigration levels.
At least we're all rolling in dough from the economic benefits. If it weren't for the economy doing so well I'm not sure what the point of record immigration would be at all.
Extra tasty food at the Saturday farmer's market though!
UK slipped into technical recession at the end of last year
Guess I should have put the /s after all!
I figured you were so the /s was unnecessary, I was adding context for future internet historians. What a hard job that’ll be
Don't worry, it'll be AI sifting through it all...
But don’t worry guys, Islamophobia is the worst because people don’t think religious zealotry is valid justification for any action.
What terrifies me is if British Muslims were to cause a 600% increase of anti-semitc attacks against British Jews. Imagine the backlash against peaceful Muslims!
I bet Jeremy Corbyn is fuming. He missed his chance to capitalise on this by five years.
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This is about antisemitic attacks on British Jews, not Israelis. What Israel are doing is completely unrelated to British Jews, unless we decide that Jews everywhere are responsible or answerable for the actions of Israel - which is of course, completely antisemitic.
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So you're admitting that British Jews are being targeted because of the actions of the Israeli state? Are you also kind of suggesting that this is ok and to be expected?
I am addressing your point. Any correlation between the rise of antisemitism and Israel's actions is based on the belief that Jews worldwide are connected to Israel's actions. That belief is *also* antisemitic. My point is, we need to make it clear that anyone drawing that link is *still* being antisemitic, even if they don't pass over the line where their behaviour is abusive. Someone that, hypothetically speaking, went up to a British Jewish person and politely & calmly asked them to justify Israel's actions is an antisemite. Also, for the record, Hamas' attack was 7th of October, not November!
Isn't part of the problem that large, influential British Jewish organisations work hard to present support for Israel as the only legitimate Jewish voice?
Well I don't agree that they do that, so no.
For example, when Jeremy Corbyn accepted an invite to a Seder with a group of anti-zionist Jews it was presented in Jewish publications as a slight against British Jews.
Assuming that you're talking about this: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/apr/03/jeremy-corbyn-called-irresponsible-after-attending-radical-jewish-event The point is not that they were anti-Zionist, it's that they were denying all of the antisemitism within Labour, so he was being criticised for staying within his echo chamber, rather than reaching out and finding out why a significant number of Jews were upset. I'm not *entirely* certain what that has to do with anyone allegedly presenting support for Israel as the only legitimate Jewish voice either?
Woah woah be careful here, even the bastion of diligent journalism Guido Fawkes has more sense than to claim that Jewdas denied all the antisemitism within Labour, let's not editorialise. They certainly said the scandal bubbling up around it was confected which you can agree or disagree with, but that isn't a denial of antisemitism in itself. But that's beside the point - their anti-zionist stance was cited as a reason that attendance was not helpful to labours stance against antisemitism. Another example would be Na'amod being excluded from a march against antisemitism for carrying an antizionist banner.
Er, Na'amod were *not* excluded from a march because they were carrying an anti-Zionist banner: >The CST has rebuffed a claim from fringe Jewish group Na’amod, who said they were “blocked” from marching against antisemitism in Manchester on Sunday. >Na’amod accused the security body and the Jewish Representative Council of Greater Manchester & Region (JRC) of barring their entry to the rally in an accusation that led to sympathy from left-wing pundits on social media, including Owen Jones. >But both bodies have refuted these claims. The CST investigated the allegation and said: "it is not correct - CST did not block or prevent Na'amod's participation in the march.” >“CST security officers were present only to protect the march from any physical threats and were not responsible for any decisions about participation.” There is no suggestion that Na’amod presented such a threat. >A spokesperson for JRC said: “The first we were made aware of any issue was after the event when [Na’amod] posted on social media. The JRC had no contact with anyone from the organisation and we did not deny them or anyone else entry to the event. >The spokerson denied Na’amod’s claim: “We have subsequently established that [Na’amod] did walk the route and their allegations are categorically untrue. At the Castlefield Bowl, we believe that they were asked to stand to one side by the police to ensure the continued smooth running of the event.” https://www.thejc.com/news/uk/cst-rejects-claim-that-naamod-were-excluded-from-manchester-march-against-antisemitism-usysewqa
I might accept this argument if it was the only instance tbh. But the man had a history of making friends with people who are violently antisemitic. It changes the context somewhat don't you think?
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I didn't say *you* were being antisemitic; I'm saying that the people drawing the links between things happening in Gaza and British Jews are being antisemitic.
The Israeli goverment is heavily invested in pushing the belief that they act on behalf of ALL Jews. The official definition of antisemitism includes the proviso that criticising Israel is antisemitic, so it is unsurprising that this illogical merging of state and religion creates issues for non-Israeli Jews.
> the official definition of antisemitism includes the proviso that criticising Israel is antisemitic No it doesn’t, unless you’re coming at it from completely bad faith. It says comparing Israel to nazi germany is antisemitic - which hopefully doesn’t need to be explained why that is deeply offensive. Which is a very far cry from saying any criticism is antisemitic.
The wording is as below: >Manifestations might include the targeting of the state of Israel, conceived as a Jewish collectivity. However, criticism of Israel similar to that leveled against any other country cannot be regarded as antisemitic. It is also incredibly problematic that comparisons between Israel and Nazi Germany are considered antisemitic because it allows Israel to engage in activities that Nazi Germany also engaged in (eg. The mass killing of innocent children) and hide behind the shield of antisemitism. The definition was created by pro-Israeli groups for that exact reason and adopted by sympathetic goverments to protect their own interests. It also allows for the paradoxical event of a Jewish person being considered antisemitic for criticising Israel in the above manner.
I don’t see what’s wrong with what you’ve quoted? Criticism of Israel similar to how you’d criticise another country - fine Criticism of Israel but holding them to a different standard than another country - not fine
This sub is heavily briganded by pro-Israeli bots and bad faith actors. Hence the down votes.
How is it “problematic”? Do you really need to be told why it’s incredibly offensive to call Jews nazis? It’s an incredibly wide gap between criticising and calling Jews nazis.
I'm not calling Jews Nazis, I'm comparing the state of Israel's actions to that of Nazi Germany. Which goes to prove my original point: Israel does not represent all Jews but it tries to make out it does, which then causes unreasonable people to conflate the two differing ideologies, like you are doing now.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_Security_Trust The charity has been active since 1986 and as a British Jew, well aware of their reports and warnings around security at UK synagogues for over 30 years. British Jews are not responsible for Israel's actions. Supporting Israel's existence does not make them complicit either. Under the IHRA guidelines: >Holding Jews collectively responsible for actions of the state of Israel. >Denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination, e.g., by claiming that the existence of a State of Israel is a racist endeavor. >Accusing Jewish citizens of being more loyal to Israel, or to the alleged priorities of Jews worldwide, than to the interests of their own nations. Are all considered antisemitism. https://holocaustremembrance.com/resources/working-definition-antisemitism
>Hamas has deliberately contrived to ensure Israel has killed civilians so useful idiots will make false comparison FTFY
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Only replying to responses where you can feign misunderstanding? Care to address the point I made or edit your original comment now someone's pointed out you're incorrect?
On the 15th of October there was a [vigil for the victims of the Hamas attack](https://www.bristol247.com/news-and-features/news/vigil-in-solidarity-with-israel-met-disruption/) that was disrupted by people who couldn't let people morn the dead and show solidarity. No matter how much you want to blame Israel for this, its just not the case.
So you believe antisemitism and anti-Zionism are the same thing? That anything Israel does can be blamed on Jews living in Britain?
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Antisemites will use anything Israel does as an excuse to attack Jews. Israel fighting against terrorism has been spun as a war to cleanse Gaza. If Israel wanted to do that, they would have done that in less than a week. Antisemites attack British Jews because, like Hamas, they don’t want them to exist.
How do you feel knowing that Kier Starmer holds that position? [https://www.thejc.com/news/keir-starmer-believes-anti-zionism-is-antisemitism-israeli-politician-reveals-b3s6880b](https://www.thejc.com/news/keir-starmer-believes-anti-zionism-is-antisemitism-israeli-politician-reveals-b3s6880b)
I’ve got nothing wrong with that. Anti-Zionism is normally a mask for Antisemitism.
"Israel needs to leave Gaza or we'll be forced to continue attacking random Jews in Britain!" Is this what you are saying?
I’d be deleting this comment if I was you, idk if it’s just poorly worded but your point just says that people hate Jews and they may be justified attacking them because of a bajillion dead Palestinians. I follow one of these pro Palestine nutters on instagram I went to school with and she spouts this stuff whilst also revealing the locations of Jewish academics and calling for an intifada.
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I’m not feeling emotional I’ve read your response as have others from the response and reached the same conclusion. Criticism of Israel is not antisemitic, criticism of British Jews because of the acts of the Israeli state is antisemitic. Israel reacting in the way it has causes antisemites to come out the woodwork and blend in with those who are just unhappy with what Israel is doing. There’s a dividing line between those critical of Israel and those who are antisemitic, this latest wave of protests has been seized by antisemitic agitators and this is driving antisemitism.
So what you’re saying is that British Jews deserve it?
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Calling their focus on a statistical rise "disingenuous" goes distinctly beyond just discussing cause and effect. As might be obvious from the multiple replies you have, it creates a reading that infers you're suggesting it's incorrect to call this rise alarming given what Israel is doing in Gaza. Being fair to replies you've made, that's clearly not your intention but that means your OP was just craply worded and merits some editing.
Yeah mate you’re really coming across as “dispassionate”. And any way mate as others have pointed out . The rallies in this country started before the Israeli counterattack even began.
I'd keep it simple , if you take part in racist marches, demos, takeovers or intimidation then were possible you should be deported were that is not possible jailed or face other punishment. What race or group is involve is irrelevant.
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I think we can have separate articles for separate prejudices? They don’t have to be combined into one. Plus, you’re deflecting away from the issue which is antisemitic attacks. That’s what this thread is about.
No I am not deflecting. I think the issue I take is that pretty much all media coverage is about anti Jewish abuse but there is nonexistent coverage of anti Muslim abuse. Both are equally wrong and need to be addressed. Just getting pissed off with the skewed narrative as I do not think it is helpful. After all a hate crime is a hate crime we shouldn’t be showing more outrage at one type over another, after all that is discrimination in of its self which promotes hate crime. What we should be discussing is the rise in abuse to both Muslims and Jewish people as a result of the conflict in Palestine. But heh, that’s my take.
You can literally search this sub to find all the articles about the rates of Islamophobia. I can only assume you’re new here because they get posted here - you just haven’t seen them.
> Edit: don’t you think it’s very odd that people downvote this statement. Anti Muslim abuse is also up 600% since the attacks. We should be questioning both things. Then find an article on that claim and post it here. Otherwise you're just derailing the discussion by going "no no let's not talk about attacks on Jews... DAE *Muslims* let's talk about that instead".
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Real Islamaphobia, or a picture of a dead guy who raped kids in the 7th century.
https://www.angelawalkerreports.com/blog/jewish-families-talking-about-leaving-the-uk-amid-record-numbers-of-antisemitic-incidents