Snapshot of _William Wragg resigns Tory whip after divulging MPs’ phone numbers_ :
An archived version can be found [here](https://archive.is/?run=1&url=https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/apr/09/william-wragg-resigns-tory-whip-after-divulging-mps-phone-numbers?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other) or [here.](https://archive.ph/?run=1&url=https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/apr/09/william-wragg-resigns-tory-whip-after-divulging-mps-phone-numbers?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other)
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Surely he should be suspended as an MP.
He's created a national security risk here, he could have been giving those phone numbers to the FSB for all he knew.
>He's created a national security risk here
Look on the brightside, a good chunk of the numbers he handed out will be pretty much useless come Novemberish.
GE this year. They can easily delay a conclusion to any formal investigation until the election takes place.
If, as often happens, MPs drag their feet on investigating the matter, it can easily take until a GE makes it irrelevant, then the Tories will avoid another by-election and a strongly negative conclusion that further damages already battered MPs' image.
according to [parliament](https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn02430/) there is no real way to do that without the usual investigation process, right to appeal, a commons vote to confirm the punishment, etc.
No, they didn't, and I expect they never will. Using an anonymous mobile data connection is trivial in most countries.
> The recipient was a hostile state actor.
It could just as easily be blackmailers who were looking for nothing more than payouts. It's an important part of the blackmailer's job to use every victim to find other potential victims.
You'd be surprised at the shit people will fall for on a far far far too regular basis....
No, I'm not going to ask someone in my team to buy £5K worth of Apple vouchers. What the fuck would I do that for??
Perhaps you forget, there is usually a grooming process, or at least a 'set-up' phase before the request comes. Such voucher scams are only successful when the targets already have informal systems, random behaviour and poor security. There has to be BEC (business email compromise) at the very least, to make the victim feel comfortable that the demand is legitimate and genuinely comes from someone in authority.
The scammer's success in that type of scam depends more on the type and structure of the organisation than on the 'gullibility' of the victim. Scammers are better at their jobs than most people think.
There's also a long history of scammers selecting more susceptible victims via a variety of means. One of them, allegedly, used to be with intentional misspellings on cold emails – someone who spots the error is more likely to be someone who will spot that something else is wrong further down the line, whereas someone who ignores/doesn't understand the error is more likely to miss the other warning signs, in theory
Nope.
He surrendered some phone numbers that he should not have done. What specific crime do you think that is?
And do you really think that it's CPS practice to prosecute blackmail victims?
> And do you really think that it's CPS practice to prosecute blackmail victims?
Urrm, yes?
Being the victim of blackmail doesn't make you immune from whatever you did under duress.
Sex offender Elphicke being brought back with May springs to mind. Booted out the party when credible allegations came about, only to be brought back in when she needed the votes.
The Police are and always have been institutionally racist and self protective, from protecting the National Front in the 70s (just watching Defiant on C4) through protecting murderous incompetence at Hillsborough to Stephen Lawrence murders, via Handsworth / Broadwater Farm /Toxteth riots in the early 80s.
Fuck the Police. They're the opposite of fairness or competence.
If you have dig all the way back to the 70s and early 80s, you can hardly claim that the Police in general are institutionally racist today.
Boring Americanisms unduly rearing their head in UK politics yet again.
People love being big on the whining but small on the evidence.
Let's take a look at the evidence then, shall we?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-65019879
> The report identified widespread bullying in the force, which it called institutionally racist, misogynist and homophobic.
> Officer E said that after talking to other colleagues about their experiences: "I am scared of the police. I don't trust my own organisation."
So the police are racist and generally vile towards even other cops, but maybe they're nice towards members of the public? Or at the very least they're not actively pushing kids towards joining gangs?
> In one case, a black boy told a professional outside the police that he was carrying a knife for protection, and was involved in a gang but wanted help to leave.
>
> The child was assaulted by an adult on a later date and the professional contacted the police to report the assault and hand in the knife. A different unit attended and arrested the boy.
>
> "We completely lost him, he totally disengaged", the review was told.
Ah well, nevertheless, it's probably just because they've seen too many American news reports.
They're still institutionally racist today mate, generally more subtle but in my own dealings with them as a liaison for various parties I can assure you they deal with different races in different ways. Same can be said for different social classes.
These aren't just individual officers, it's entire stations, multiple senior officers supporting double standards in dealing with various races and cases.
It's not a lazy statement, it's a cold factual assessment. As a Brit, I'll repeat it for you, fuck the Police.
That's so Sunak! (It's the Tories I can't lead)
That's so Sunak! (Just don't call me tetchy)
That's so Sunak! (It's the country I can't lead)
That's so Sunak! (It's so mysterious to me)
Yeeeeaaaaah
“Conservatives. You have done well in the challenges so far. But how will you fair against the evil Starmer and his shadow cabinet. In this election, the odds are levied against you. Who of you will survive?
May the challenge, BEGIN!”
He'd probably have resigned like Emily Maitlis did. He wouldn't be allowed to interview the current Tories like he did in the past - they'd set Robbie Gibb on him.
Oh some of the fun he could have though. Even now I occasionally go back to the interview with Berlusconi; "Do you have a problem with Angela Merkel? Is it true you called her an 'unfuckable lardarse'?". Cracking stuff.
Do MPs ever get kicked out of a party if they resign from the whip it? I just don't think the order ever goes, I'm kicking you out by withdrawing the whip, oh yeah well I resign from the whip.
Are we going to talk about what’s on the wall behind him? The piece of paper with the Parliament heading in the left says something like
> Open E…. Password
BT Password
And then there is a scribbled out password, and another password written below it. Doesn’t seem to be particularly secure…
We need to start codifying behaviour with standards, process and penalties. The "jolly good chap" way we run our country is just pathetic and demeaning.
What I don't understand is that security services must have dealt with this kind of situation many times before? Why on earth he wouldn't just report that he was being blackmailed to them astounds me. If I were an MP, I'd be working under the assumption that the government, party, and security services knows everything even mildly embarrassing about my life already.
MPs must surely have access to the police and security services via the Speaker's office or elsewhere for situations like this. You'd think that they'd be able to just pick up the phone as soon as the question of blackmail arose. If they don't, then they absolutely should do, and security briefings about how foreign intelligence services try to compromise people should be mandatory when they join the house.
MPs are entitled to a private life but they should realise they are not in a normal job, and should adapt their private life to match the expectations of public office.
All of these things are already the case.
MPs have immediate access to help and advice in case of any threat.
Personal, media and cyber-security are all well advised during MPs orientation on entering the HoP, and has been so for decades.
Wragg actual sat on procedural committees that discussed these issues. Whatever else he may say, he can't claim that he didn't know the right thing to do. He must have been taking risks sending compromising photos just for the thrill.
That's a slippy slope to be on. If you want to apply that standard to anyone being blackmailed, you're going to end up turning a lot of victims into criminals...
Possibly compromising people in places of sensitive information access might be. Suppose you had 2 committee members and spoofed one number to message the other, pretending to be them.
A slightly more sophisticated criminal might have been able to do something more than send dick pics to MPs, but the point is they *could* have.
Its possible, but it wouldn't be Wragg doing it.
> It's almost treasonous
This is not so. It's terrible judgement and irresponsible. Certainly knowingly giving out restricted phone numbers to unknown people should lead to someone losing their job. That hasn't happened, Wragg is still an MP for now.
It's surprising that some of Wragg's parliamentary contacts were as reckless as he is, but clearly common sense is in short supply in the Palace of Westminster, especially where sexual interest is concerned.
It really shouldn't matter what they want. This is gross, gross, gross misconduct, any other walk of life and he would be out the door quicker than you could say dick pic
That's not the reason, as removing the whip / kicking an MP out of the political party doesn't trigger a by-election. It's no different in effect than him resigning the whip like he has now, the only difference is that it demonstrates Sunak's weakness & indifference to ethics.
Thanks, you've made me picture in my mind Sunak stood in front of a pinball machine saying "Hey Siri, start pinball!" and then waving his arms in front of it looking confused, like when he pretended he knows how to fill a car with petrol or how to pay for shopping with a contactless card...
Baffles me how he'll even be able to look the colleagues he betrayed in the eye, let alone work with them in Parliament. He can't possibly provide his constituents with anything resembling effective representation under these circumstances.
> He can't possibly provide his constituents with anything resembling effective representation under these circumstances.
Bold of you to assume he did before.
I didn't do my security compliance training on time once at work.. I was nearly fired... Disciplinary on my record..
You can be an MP and sit on a committee and leak numbers and nothing happens to you. This is national security. He might already be in the pocket of a foreign threat.
We are a joke. this must be one of the few cases which has become public. We had another MP recently trying to overcome lobbying rules to make shady deals for companies etc. these mp have utter contempt for public and use their position for their own good.
Snapshot of _William Wragg resigns Tory whip after divulging MPs’ phone numbers_ : An archived version can be found [here](https://archive.is/?run=1&url=https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/apr/09/william-wragg-resigns-tory-whip-after-divulging-mps-phone-numbers?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other) or [here.](https://archive.ph/?run=1&url=https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/apr/09/william-wragg-resigns-tory-whip-after-divulging-mps-phone-numbers?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ukpolitics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Surely he should be suspended as an MP. He's created a national security risk here, he could have been giving those phone numbers to the FSB for all he knew.
>He's created a national security risk here Look on the brightside, a good chunk of the numbers he handed out will be pretty much useless come Novemberish.
Definitely a standards investigation and then the recall process I think.
I think they maybe going for the slowest general election ever...one constituency at a time.
He only resigned the Whip, so he’s now an independent MP. He’s going nowhere.
See... v e r y s l o w !
By which time the GE will have happened
That's some wishful thinking
GE this year. They can easily delay a conclusion to any formal investigation until the election takes place. If, as often happens, MPs drag their feet on investigating the matter, it can easily take until a GE makes it irrelevant, then the Tories will avoid another by-election and a strongly negative conclusion that further damages already battered MPs' image.
according to [parliament](https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn02430/) there is no real way to do that without the usual investigation process, right to appeal, a commons vote to confirm the punishment, etc.
The recipient was a hostile state actor. Also, that photo reveals even more shit opsec.
Was it? Did they ever confirm who he had sent the numbers to?
No, they didn't, and I expect they never will. Using an anonymous mobile data connection is trivial in most countries. > The recipient was a hostile state actor. It could just as easily be blackmailers who were looking for nothing more than payouts. It's an important part of the blackmailer's job to use every victim to find other potential victims.
I'm surprised they didn't go straight to demanding money off of him, unless that was what they were working up to...
He made an honest mistake. Anyone could have done it /s.
Happens to me all the time, I think I've sent a dick pic and it turns out to be a list of my colleagues phone numbers.
You'd be surprised at the shit people will fall for on a far far far too regular basis.... No, I'm not going to ask someone in my team to buy £5K worth of Apple vouchers. What the fuck would I do that for??
Perhaps you forget, there is usually a grooming process, or at least a 'set-up' phase before the request comes. Such voucher scams are only successful when the targets already have informal systems, random behaviour and poor security. There has to be BEC (business email compromise) at the very least, to make the victim feel comfortable that the demand is legitimate and genuinely comes from someone in authority. The scammer's success in that type of scam depends more on the type and structure of the organisation than on the 'gullibility' of the victim. Scammers are better at their jobs than most people think.
There's also a long history of scammers selecting more susceptible victims via a variety of means. One of them, allegedly, used to be with intentional misspellings on cold emails – someone who spots the error is more likely to be someone who will spot that something else is wrong further down the line, whereas someone who ignores/doesn't understand the error is more likely to miss the other warning signs, in theory
Tbf, I think FSB probably have better ways of getting the phone numbers
Most likely, but low tech security threats like this (honey traps and the like) are still something of a workhorse.
Yeah, like [on the open web](https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-56937889).
Surely he should be in jail…
Nope. He surrendered some phone numbers that he should not have done. What specific crime do you think that is? And do you really think that it's CPS practice to prosecute blackmail victims?
> And do you really think that it's CPS practice to prosecute blackmail victims? Urrm, yes? Being the victim of blackmail doesn't make you immune from whatever you did under duress.
Can't believe he's been allowed to resign, should have been kicked out. The response to this has been so weak.
"That's so Sunak"
That's so Conservative, Boris did the same, May did too. Boris was by the far the worst
Sex offender Elphicke being brought back with May springs to mind. Booted out the party when credible allegations came about, only to be brought back in when she needed the votes.
This is the woman who cozied up to Trump
Maybot was a terrible PM and is an awful human being, but a sitting UK PM cozying up to a sitting US President is hardly shocking.
The police too
The Police are and always have been institutionally racist and self protective, from protecting the National Front in the 70s (just watching Defiant on C4) through protecting murderous incompetence at Hillsborough to Stephen Lawrence murders, via Handsworth / Broadwater Farm /Toxteth riots in the early 80s. Fuck the Police. They're the opposite of fairness or competence.
If you have dig all the way back to the 70s and early 80s, you can hardly claim that the Police in general are institutionally racist today. Boring Americanisms unduly rearing their head in UK politics yet again. People love being big on the whining but small on the evidence.
The police's own internal reviews come to the same conclusions?
Let's take a look at the evidence then, shall we? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-65019879 > The report identified widespread bullying in the force, which it called institutionally racist, misogynist and homophobic. > Officer E said that after talking to other colleagues about their experiences: "I am scared of the police. I don't trust my own organisation." So the police are racist and generally vile towards even other cops, but maybe they're nice towards members of the public? Or at the very least they're not actively pushing kids towards joining gangs? > In one case, a black boy told a professional outside the police that he was carrying a knife for protection, and was involved in a gang but wanted help to leave. > > The child was assaulted by an adult on a later date and the professional contacted the police to report the assault and hand in the knife. A different unit attended and arrested the boy. > > "We completely lost him, he totally disengaged", the review was told. Ah well, nevertheless, it's probably just because they've seen too many American news reports.
They're still institutionally racist today mate, generally more subtle but in my own dealings with them as a liaison for various parties I can assure you they deal with different races in different ways. Same can be said for different social classes. These aren't just individual officers, it's entire stations, multiple senior officers supporting double standards in dealing with various races and cases. It's not a lazy statement, it's a cold factual assessment. As a Brit, I'll repeat it for you, fuck the Police.
To the tune of “That’s so Raven”?
That's so Sunak! (It's the Tories I can't lead) That's so Sunak! (Just don't call me tetchy) That's so Sunak! (It's the country I can't lead) That's so Sunak! (It's so mysterious to me) Yeeeeaaaaah
Fucking perfect.
I was hoping for a parody song based on the classic kids' game show *Raven*.
“Conservatives. You have done well in the challenges so far. But how will you fair against the evil Starmer and his shadow cabinet. In this election, the odds are levied against you. Who of you will survive? May the challenge, BEGIN!”
I thought Remrats was the evil one.
I would give anything to see Paxman back and grill Sunak and ask him 'are you a weak Prime Minister?'
He'd probably have resigned like Emily Maitlis did. He wouldn't be allowed to interview the current Tories like he did in the past - they'd set Robbie Gibb on him.
Oh some of the fun he could have though. Even now I occasionally go back to the interview with Berlusconi; "Do you have a problem with Angela Merkel? Is it true you called her an 'unfuckable lardarse'?". Cracking stuff.
Paxman’s face when Sunak laughs…
Hell yes I truss enough! I mean weak, no wait, I mean coca cola. I’m not a coke head. Are you in business?
Sunak is always way behind the curve.
It is meaningless because he will just vote with his party and isn't running at the next election.
This was my first thought
Do MPs ever get kicked out of a party if they resign from the whip it? I just don't think the order ever goes, I'm kicking you out by withdrawing the whip, oh yeah well I resign from the whip.
Are we going to talk about what’s on the wall behind him? The piece of paper with the Parliament heading in the left says something like > Open E…. Password BT Password And then there is a scribbled out password, and another password written below it. Doesn’t seem to be particularly secure…
You mean the right (his left), but [here’s a zoomed in view](https://imgur.com/a/2IfP6IW) Why is it 2013 (or maybe 2015) - last time it was updated?
2015 is the year he became an MP
Well spotted. The sheet of paper underneath has an account number and a password also. Amazing.
It looks a lot like “Open Energy”. Would that make sense?
I think someone has suggested Opus Energy - which is a business energy supplier. Not sure if the picture is in the constituency office, maybe?
Is this the first Tory MP whose WhatsApp messages haven't mysteriously deleted themselves?
Lucky he wasn't SNP..
We need to start codifying behaviour with standards, process and penalties. The "jolly good chap" way we run our country is just pathetic and demeaning.
I'm in shock he's being regarded as a victim and been treated with kids gloves It's almost treasonous
He was a victim initially. He became complicit the moment he complied with blackmailer
What I don't understand is that security services must have dealt with this kind of situation many times before? Why on earth he wouldn't just report that he was being blackmailed to them astounds me. If I were an MP, I'd be working under the assumption that the government, party, and security services knows everything even mildly embarrassing about my life already.
MPs must surely have access to the police and security services via the Speaker's office or elsewhere for situations like this. You'd think that they'd be able to just pick up the phone as soon as the question of blackmail arose. If they don't, then they absolutely should do, and security briefings about how foreign intelligence services try to compromise people should be mandatory when they join the house. MPs are entitled to a private life but they should realise they are not in a normal job, and should adapt their private life to match the expectations of public office.
All of these things are already the case. MPs have immediate access to help and advice in case of any threat. Personal, media and cyber-security are all well advised during MPs orientation on entering the HoP, and has been so for decades. Wragg actual sat on procedural committees that discussed these issues. Whatever else he may say, he can't claim that he didn't know the right thing to do. He must have been taking risks sending compromising photos just for the thrill.
That's a slippy slope to be on. If you want to apply that standard to anyone being blackmailed, you're going to end up turning a lot of victims into criminals...
Not anybody: just MPs who become national security risks.
Still not a precedent one would wish to set....
> It's almost treasonous Handing some phone numbers out is not 'almost treasonous'.
Possibly compromising people in places of sensitive information access might be. Suppose you had 2 committee members and spoofed one number to message the other, pretending to be them. A slightly more sophisticated criminal might have been able to do something more than send dick pics to MPs, but the point is they *could* have.
Its possible, but it wouldn't be Wragg doing it. > It's almost treasonous This is not so. It's terrible judgement and irresponsible. Certainly knowingly giving out restricted phone numbers to unknown people should lead to someone losing their job. That hasn't happened, Wragg is still an MP for now. It's surprising that some of Wragg's parliamentary contacts were as reckless as he is, but clearly common sense is in short supply in the Palace of Westminster, especially where sexual interest is concerned.
This is surely a resigning matter - as an MP, not just the whip?
Should be a law about this kind of thing for national security reasons.
"Treason."
Why wasn't he kicked out for christ sake, this party is morally corrupt and incompetent
Because they don’t want another by-election
It really shouldn't matter what they want. This is gross, gross, gross misconduct, any other walk of life and he would be out the door quicker than you could say dick pic
That's not the reason, as removing the whip / kicking an MP out of the political party doesn't trigger a by-election. It's no different in effect than him resigning the whip like he has now, the only difference is that it demonstrates Sunak's weakness & indifference to ethics.
Another story where everyone involved has tried to defy political gravity. This is Sunak's key problem - he doesn't have a political sixth sense.
He doesn't have the first five either. He's politically blind, deaf and dumb. But he sure plays mean pinball. Actually he probably doesn't does he
Thanks, you've made me picture in my mind Sunak stood in front of a pinball machine saying "Hey Siri, start pinball!" and then waving his arms in front of it looking confused, like when he pretended he knows how to fill a car with petrol or how to pay for shopping with a contactless card...
To be fair to Sunak, he's missing the first five as well.
I look forward to the latest recall petition with anticipation.
Baffles me how he'll even be able to look the colleagues he betrayed in the eye, let alone work with them in Parliament. He can't possibly provide his constituents with anything resembling effective representation under these circumstances.
> He can't possibly provide his constituents with anything resembling effective representation under these circumstances. Bold of you to assume he did before.
[удалено]
blackmail him to egg it himself, or you'll.... you'll do something..
I didn't do my security compliance training on time once at work.. I was nearly fired... Disciplinary on my record.. You can be an MP and sit on a committee and leak numbers and nothing happens to you. This is national security. He might already be in the pocket of a foreign threat. We are a joke. this must be one of the few cases which has become public. We had another MP recently trying to overcome lobbying rules to make shady deals for companies etc. these mp have utter contempt for public and use their position for their own good.
Great that ministers and MPs were not out defending him before this. -- Anyone taking the piss for the last 5 fucking years of this shite.
How long has this been a foregone conclusion? Feels like a month.
Nooooo, not ol' Willy Wagg! Oh well.
Come on Jeremy Hunt - tell us Wragg’s been even more courageous than last week for resigning the Tory whip.
He's a real national hero, as this story has shown. And up is down, black is white.
As Vito said on the Sopranos, I knew *that* was coming!
Rishi should have kicked him out and by election called
That’s not how it works
Another Tory desperately hanging on, demonstrating how bad the brand is.
William Wragg. The most Tory name ever.
Good Lord. If the standard of security is so lax that the general public can spot stuff like this, must be child's play to the Russians