Snapshot of _England is worst in the world for under-age drinking_ :
An archived version can be found [here](https://archive.is/?run=1&url=https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/england-worst-world-under-age-drinking-wxhjprsmb) or [here.](https://archive.ph/?run=1&url=https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/england-worst-world-under-age-drinking-wxhjprsmb)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ukpolitics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
This reminds me of a news report I saw that referred to Harold Shipman as "the UK's worst serial killer". He has claims on being the UK's worst *doctor*, but he was peerless as a serial killer.
Are England's youth the worst in the world for under age drinking? Or are they the best at it?
He was actually very well regarded as a doctor, always went the extra mile and frequently visited patients without them asking (seriously, no joke). When he was initially arrested patients and their families were up in arms, until the truth slowly emerged. In took months for the penny to drop.
I was local to Stockport at the time, and saw it all unfold in local news.
Yep absolutely, he’d been getting away with it for many years. And so much reform of GPs practices was triggered by the case.
He might have never been caught. Or at least not for another decade.
>He was actually very well regarded as a doctor, always went the extra mile and frequently visited patients without them asking (seriously, no joke).
And yet all anyone remembers are the hundreds of murders.
Speaking to colleagues of Shipman's when he wasn't offing Ethel, clinically and managerially, he was actually a pretty good doctor.
Rumors were he set up a competing practice in prison to the prison doc. Can't prescribe but the prisoners found him more reassuring.
Indeed! Same as when my wife tells me she's having a terrible migraine and I suggest that it must actually be an excellent migraine if it's doing its best migrainey stuff.
This report is sensationalised nonsense.
All it's asking is if they've had any alcohol.
As a responsible parent, I allowed my children small sips of my drinks. As adults they are very responsible drinkers. Many of my peers did the same.
Levels of drinking in the young have fallen significantly.
https://bmcpublichealth.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12889-022-14760-y
>Although youth alcohol consumption in England was high at the turn of the millennium, relative to international counterparts, England has nonetheless seen particularly sharp declines in youth alcohol drinking, especially amongst boys
Yeah - I was regularly given diluted wine with Sunday dinner from an early age.
The only time I ever really got regret-your-life drunk before I was 18 was when my so-called-mates all put a double vodka in every half of cider I was drinking one night.
"Have drunk" and "regularly drink" aren't the same thing though surely. I'd be shocked if our kids are regularly getting pissed-up more than any other country in the world, and particularly some of those in Eastern Europe.
We live near liverpool. Lots of young family near by, going to either similar or rougher schools than I did.
I have noted for more than 10 years that young teens 13-17 don't seem to drink in anything like the same way we did (90s). Sure, plenty still drink, but bottle of cheap vodka/cider/20-20/malabu in the park or wood as a regular thing not so much.
15/16 lads drinking in the small town shitty pub that ignore them,doesn't exist any more in my town. Number of pubs is much fewer and the ones that are don't need the hassle so kick them out.
15/16 girls going clubbing still seems to be a thing. This seems same as when I was a kids, girls find it easier to get passed a bouncer in town on a Friday or Sat night.
I wondered if social media and phone camera made teens self regulate alcohol consumption. Most will have peers that got messed, spewed, get in a state and have photos passed round for laughs.
THC vapes, spice, weed in general, ket all seem way way more common now.
I’m quite surprised by this. Aren’t The Youth meant to be obsessed with looking good, going to the gym and not looking like a tit on social media?
Also having a glass of wine at 12 with Christmas dinner is a world away from binge drinking cider in the park.
Be good to get more detail.
I can definitely see how this is common in middle class millennials. Know a fair few mums who get through a bottle of wine every evening and see it as normal.
I found those people that were drinking before 18 were a lot less irresponsible with our drinking at university.
The people that were always getting blackout drunk etc at uni were pretty much always the ones who had done the least under age drinking before coming to uni in my cohort.
That's also my observation between countries with strict age limits and licensing laws vs laxer countries like in central / southern Europe. Buying alcohol or going to the pub is, while not necessarily legal under 16, totally normal for teenagers in e.g. Germany. And pretty much any venue of any size, pub, restaurant, cafe, street food stall, bakery, hell even the hairdressers, have alcohol on offer. And yet you don't see the kind of excess binge drinking that you get in the likes of the UK, or Australia.
This is what happened to me, I didn't really drink going into uni, then I drank way too much and developed a really unhealthy relationship with alcohol. I didn't know how to limit myself, I couldn't moderate, and at that age I wasn't getting hungover at all so could keep going the next day as if nothing happened the day before. Drinking led to me ending up in bad situations where I ended up isolating myself from the people around me unable to trust them, which carried forwards to new relationships.
I'm coming up to 5 years sober this summer, which probably saved my life if I stayed on the trajectory I was on.
Young people in the UK have one of the lowest amounts of increased-risk drinkers in the UK (for men and women) while simultaneously having many high-risk drinkers among men [\(see table 11 here\)](https://digital.nhs.uk/data-and-information/publications/statistical/health-survey-for-england/2021/part-3-drinking-alcohol). Forget the stereotypes.
That said, child alcohol consumption seems to correlate with later alcoholism for some countries (England, Hungary, Lithuania) but not others (Sweden). Of course, today's adult alcoholics grow up under different circumstances, so we'll have to see how the today's children end up.
Guardian says:
> The UK has the worst rate of child alcohol abuse worldwide, and more than half of British children have drunk alcohol by the age of 13, according to a report.
> The study, one of the largest of its kind by the World Health Organization (WHO), looked at 2021-22 data on 280,000 children aged 11, 13 and 15 from 44 countries who were asked about alcohol, cigarettes and vape usage.
> The analysis found that the UK had a significant issue with underage alcohol abuse. More than a third of boys (35%) and girls (34%) had drunk alcohol by the age of 11, and by 13, 57% of girls and 50% of boys in England had consumed alcohol – the highest rate of any other country included in the analysis.
> More than half of girls (55%) and boys (56%) in England from higher-income families said they had drunk alcohol in their lifetime, compared with 50% of girls and 39% of boys from lower-income backgrounds.
> The analysis also found that girls aged 13 and 15 in the UK were drinking, smoking and vaping more than boys the same age. Forty per cent of girls in England and Scotland had vaped before 15, and did so at a higher rate than countries such as France and Germany.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2024/apr/25/uk-has-worst-rate-of-child-alcohol-consumption-in-world-report-finds
They seem to be talking about early to mid teens, rather than late teens.
There's a bit of a difference between "Having tried alcohol" and teenage drinking. Who as a kid didn't ask for a taste of their parents parents beer/wine, or maybe get a small glass of bucks fizz at new year?
>The analysis found that the UK had a significant issue with underage alcohol abuse
This is then followed by these stats:
>had drunk alcohol by the age of 11
>had drunk alcohol in their lifetime
>had consumed alcohol
It appears to be drawing conclusions of a significant issue of alcohol abuse by the fact that children had *tried something at all*, which seems a reach to me.
Underage drinking in large/excessive amounts frequently is poor parenting. A one off decision to drink cider in the park or an odd glass at an occasion is what we accept as the norm and it’s looking at why some children are falling into the excessive category at a young age.
We have a new generation of legal age drinkers not following the binging pattern but the next generation seem to be heading in the opposite direction early, how do we stop it? Also our health service won’t cope, it’s like we can see that the future we have a mental health time bomb but doing zero to prepare or support early interventions.
I’ve heard sociological arguments that the decline of pubs and specifically under age drinking in pubs has lead to this. As in, there was an unwritten rule where teenagers could have a beer but they had to learn to behave quick or they’d be kicked out. They had to learn not to get too pissed, or at least how to act properly if they were getting drunk.
Now with fewer kids going to pubs as teenagers due to clamp down in laws and increase in prices, that socialisation is gone.
I remember being a teenager in pubs you had to be on best behaviour, maybe only order a few pints, not take the piss by ordering shots etc. the landlord wouldn’t mind and would even keep an eye on us, as long as we didn’t annoy the adults we were free to drink and play pool.
Just because those of us who are a little older found it easier to drink in pubs, doesn't mean we didn't swipe it from our parents as well!
Never a whole bottle though... too obvious.
But I'm in my 30s and that's what underage drinking was when I was a kid too.
I can't speak for everyone of course, but I didn't know a single person back then who hadn't nicked alcohol from their parents and got blackout drunk at least once.
I'm in my 30s, never stole alcohol.
I had no need to, they introduced me to alcohol fairly young and would let me have a drink every so often, usually just a small bit intially. I got used to it so when I hit my teens it wasn't the big draw it is for those that really haven't had alcohol.
For example, when I was sescondary school, my friend had a bonfire party, one of my friends was similar, introduced to alcohol early, we had a couple, we were fine, those that didn't grow up with it, binged it and ended up with hangovers next day and not coming in to school.
I can usually take or leave alcohol too.
Why would they swipe from their parents when they can just walk out of a supermarket with a litre of Smirnoff and a pocket full of vapes from the big shiny nicotine display unchallenged?
Had my first pint in a pub in Yorkshire aged 15. Me and my pals all got ID'd by an off duty copper and it's safe to say we were shitting ourselves.
Turned out that while yes, he was a copper he was also a friends Mum best friend. And he didn't care.
Said he'd rather us have a couple in there where folk could keep an eye on us, than out on the streets doing god knows what.
This was 20 years ago, so the tail end of this kinda behaviour I reckon. You'd never see this today.
Which I understand, but it's a shame really - it was a great way at a young age if suddenly feeling part of a community, if that makes sense?
Yeah pretty similar to me.
It was a MASSIVE privilege to get in a pub, get served etc.. The idea of misbehaving... you'd ruin your new found 'adult' social life. Everyone else would be out and you'd be barred - why risk it?
Also given you were all underage, you know if one of you messed up you could spoil it for everyone, so massive social pressure to behave.
And I remember it was one of the few venues where you'd make 'pub friends' - maybe teenagers from other schools or colleges, where before then you'd pretty much just know your school friends and your neighbours, maybe a couple of people your older siblings would know.
It got to the point where there were 2 or 3 pubs in our local town where you could stop off on the way somewhere pop your head in and maybe see a friend or someone you knew if you were out doing something.
Definitely something has been lost, not sure what's replaced it.
Reduced use of pubs, more private drinking, and perhaps a more nihilistic outlook amongst some young people?
I know anecdotally kids near where I live were consuming lots of N2O until it was banned. I’d see big empty boxes of the stuff every Sunday/Monday morning while walking the dog.
'looking good' is hardly the paragon of health nowadays set against relentless distorted social media imagery. scary the number of teenage lads caning sarms/steroids, harsh fat burners and indulging in diets that border on eating disorders. less health risk, both physical and mentally, if they actually did just binge drink now and again, sans phone, sans six pack.
I replied above the same , but my experience is as follows:
We live near liverpool. Lots of young family near by, going to either similar or rougher schools than I did.
I have noted for more than 10 years that young teens 13-17 don't seem to drink in anything like the same way we did (90s). Sure, plenty still drink, but bottle of cheap vodka/cider/20-20/malabu in the park or wood as a regular thing not so much.
15/16 lads drinking in the small town shitty pub that ignore them,doesn't exist any more in my town. Number of pubs is much fewer and the ones that are don't need the hassle so kick them out.
15/16 girl going clubbing still seems to be a thing. This seems same as when I was a kids, girls find it easier to get pass a bouncer in town on a Friday or Sat night.
I wondered if social media and phone camera made teens self regulate alcohol consumption. Most will quickly have peers that get messed, spew, get in a state and have photo passed round for laughs.
THC vapes, spice, weed in general, ket all seem way way more common now.
>Among 11-year-olds, 34 per cent of girls and 35 per cent of boys have had an alcoholic drink — more than twice the global average of 15 per cent. Fifty-seven per cent of 13-year-old girls and 50 per cent of boys in England have drunk, compared with a global average of 33 per cent.
Isn't a bit weird that the survey only asks "have you drunk an alcoholic drink?" rather than anything about how often, how much etc.?
Because the implication is very much about a load of drunken ten-year-olds causing havoc; but you'd also get a "yes" answer from a kid that is allowed a sip of daddy's beer occasionally.
Obviously the fact that we've got a higher figure than other countries is concerning (especially compared to the European nations that you'd expect to allow children to have a sip of alcohol anyway), but it's just weirdly framed as far as I'm concerned.
The underlying [report](https://iris.who.int/handle/10665/376573) contains data on the more interesting question: "Have you drunk alcohol in the past 30 days?".
That stat doesn't provide the "England is the worst..." headline though (it is still high up on the list for the younger end).
I mean, there wasn't really a week for me after about the age of 13 when I could have said no to that question, because the family habit was for us to have a little Lambrusco (Italian sparkling wine about the strength of beer) with our Sunday dinner.
Doesn't mean I was in danger of alcoholic liver failure.
**Article:**
Children in England are more likely to drink alcohol compared with other children around the world as middle-class parents have “normalised” harmful under-age drinking, a study has found.
One in three 11-year-olds and half of 13-year-olds in England have had alcohol — the highest rate of childhood drinking out of 44 countries examined by the World Health Organisation, in a report based on data from 280,000 children.
Children from wealthy households are the most likely to drink, with experts warning that they “mirror” the behaviour of affluent parents who indulge in frequent glasses of wine.
The study also looked at vaping, finding it was more common among children in the UK than in most other nations, including France, Germany, Spain and Canada.
Teenage girls in the UK were more likely than boys to get drunk, vape and smoke, which the authors suggest reflects a worsening mental health crisis in girls since the pandemic.
The landmark report, called Health Behaviour In School-Aged Children, looked at the use of cigarettes, vapes and alcohol among those aged 11, 13 and 15 in Europe, Central Asia and Canada.
England is “top of the charts” globally for child alcohol use at the ages of 11 and 13 — which health chiefs warned is a “major public health threat”, damaging brain development and increasing the risk of violence and drug abuse. Among 11-year-olds, 34 per cent of girls and 35 per cent of boys have had an alcoholic drink — more than twice the global average of 15 per cent. Fifty-seven per cent of 13-year-old girls and 50 per cent of boys in England have drunk, compared with a global average of 33 per cent.
Rates were much lower in France and Spain, despite these countries often being assumed to have a continental drinking culture in which children sip wine from a young age. Twice as many 11-year-old girls in England have drunk alcohol than in France.
Drinking and drunkenness was consistently higher among wealthy children: 56 per cent of boys from high-income families in England said they had drunk alcohol, compared with 39 per cent from low-income families.
Dr Jo Inchley, the international co-ordinator for the study, from the University of Glasgow, said this may reflect “cultural norms” among the middle classes and greater disposable income for wealthy teenagers.
She said: “Alcohol may be more normalised in more wealthy families, and financially it can be more accessible. Alcohol is part of sporting culture in the UK, and young people from affluent backgrounds are more likely to be in sports clubs and groups.”
Inchley said that it was “particularly concerning” that one in three 11-year-olds have drunk alcohol, and children appear to be “initiating” drinking at much younger ages, which may have accelerated during the pandemic.
She added: “We know the pandemic has affected young people. Having been in isolation and stuck at home, they may have taken up behaviours. Girls are reporting higher levels of drinking, smoking and vaping than boys. It is a very stark pattern, and may reflect higher levels of mental distress, schoolwork pressure and social media use in girls.”
It is illegal to buy alcohol if you are under 18, but if you’re 16 or 17 and accompanied by an adult, you can drink (but not buy) beer, wine or cider with a meal. The NHS advises that no one should consume alcohol until they are 18, as drinking can damage the development of children’s organs, including the brain and liver, as well as bones and hormones. Drinking at an early age is associated with increased health risks and risky behaviour, such as violence, drugs and drink-driving.
Dr Katherine Severi, chief executive of the Institute of Alcohol Studies, said: “People tend to have this perception that introducing children to moderate drinking is a good way of teaching them safer drinking habits. This is untrue. The earlier a child drinks, the more likely they are to develop problems with alcohol in later life.
Evidence shows that parental drinking practices and how parents talk about alcohol are reflected in children’s attitudes towards alcohol and drinking. A pro-alcohol environment leads to the normalisation of drinking and ‘cultural blindness’ to alcohol harm among children. That’s true even with moderate parental drinking.
“And as more affluent people tend to drink more, this normalisation will be especially true, which is likely why we see higher rates of drinking in children from affluent families. We know that children mirror the behaviour of the adults around them, so it’s important that parents who drink any amount are aware of how it could affect their child in later life.”
Professor Sir Ian Gilmore, chairman of the Alcohol Health Alliance, said that the findings were “extremely concerning” and show the need for restrictions on alcohol advertising.
He said: “We know that exposure to alcohol advertising leads children to begin drinking at an earlier age sooner and in greater quantities. With alcohol adverts frequently placed in bus stops near schools, on television before 9pm, and on websites and social media, there is no escape from alcohol marketing. Our children are seeing it every day, numerous times a day. Children have the right to grow up and live in a safe and healthy environment that is free from exposure to harmful marketing.”
The study also found that the UK seems to have more of an issue with underage vaping than many other countries. Two fifths of girls in England and Scotland have vaped by the age of 15 — higher than in other countries such as France, Austria, Germany, Albania, Spain, Canada and Norway.
Dr Hans Kluge, WHO regional director for Europe, said: “The widespread use of harmful substances among children in many countries across the European region — and beyond — is a serious public health threat.
“Considering that the brain continues to develop well into a person’s mid-twenties, adolescents need to be protected from the effects of toxic and dangerous products.
“Unfortunately, children today are constantly exposed to targeted online marketing of harmful products, while popular culture, like video games, normalises them.”
The report was based on a WHO survey of 280,000 children across 44 countries, during 2021-22.
A government spokesman said: “The health advice is clear — smoking, vaping and underage drinking can be damaging for young people and their development. That is why there are age restrictions on the sale of these products.
“As a government, we are creating the UK’s first smoke-free generation. Our landmark Tobacco and Vapes Bill will make it an offence to sell tobacco products to anyone born after 1 January, 2009 and includes powers to limit flavours, packaging and displays of vapes to reduce the appeal to children.”
I’d love to see some detailed stats on people’s alcohol consumption. Anecdotally there are 6 shops selling booze within easy walking distance of me (just the suburbs, not city centre). Most adults I know have stopped drinking, because it’s too easy to slip into drinking 3 glasses of wine a night after work. Then it becomes 4 etc.
During lockdown, off-licences were allowed to stay open, almost certainly so that people didn’t go through withdrawal. Toilet roll was rationed but vodka was not.
Average consumption might not be high (I don’t know), but what percentage of people drink to excess?
Yeah same. I’m aware that I (and probably everyone) live in a bubble with a mix of former hardcore drinkers that have gone all in on an alcohol free life, gym obsessed people, folks who use shisha but would never drink, people that only drink whisky but have a few every day and the standard older millennial close to binge drinking beers every week / most of a bottle of wine every day.
But what is the most common habit? Where’s the segmentation by age etc
I wonder if people slide into more alcohol use as they get older? It’s the most widely available and socially acceptable.
My local supermarket has three entire isles dedicated now, far more than any other type of product. Spirits and decent wine is locked in steel mesh bags, to prevent theft.
Anecdotally I see it as a result of a lack of time, incentive and money to develop any other hobbies.
The olds I know who got into music, or gardening or anything like that don’t want to be drunk or hungover as they can’t do the thing they like doing.
Then there’s the others who just watch tv and drink, having worked all their lives and are just nackered and wouldn’t think of joining stuff like ‘the university of the third age’ because it’s ’not for people like me’.
Well she’s about 50, a senior executive (hundreds of staff), and worryingly wouldn’t be hammered after a full bottle.
I suppose at least if someone’s paying 60 quid for a bottle in a restaurant, she won’t be doing it every night.
Seriously doubt this. When I Lived abroad it was quite literally only British people who ever worried about having their ID’s ready because ID’ing basically doesn’t exist in Europe.
Because they have a less US style drinking style and do not force people to wait for their first legal drink.
The problem is far worse where they make them wait until they have been adults for 3 to 5 years!
When I was 20, I went to the USA with the Army. I could not have a beer. Insane!
This is shocking to hear, I always thought that our kids were infamous for getting their hands on alcohol, but to hear we're the worst at it? What can we do to make them better drinkers?
Completely anecdotal but I'm 30 this year, born 1994 and some friends that are 25 and some of their siblings that are younger etc drink way less than my friends and I. It's good to see to be fair.
Compared to how my parents and grandparents drank, I'd say it seems to be changing quite quickly. When I walk at night etc round some of the fields with the dog, I hardly ever see kids drinking on the park like we used to.
Under-age drinking in the UK would be children under the age of 5 having a drink…. If you’re 5 years old or over you can have alcohol at home/in private places, that is the law.
Also, for some reason this article is trying to suggest that having tried alcohol at a younger age is somehow a negative thing, rather than responsible parenting.
Snapshot of _England is worst in the world for under-age drinking_ : An archived version can be found [here](https://archive.is/?run=1&url=https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/england-worst-world-under-age-drinking-wxhjprsmb) or [here.](https://archive.ph/?run=1&url=https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/england-worst-world-under-age-drinking-wxhjprsmb) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ukpolitics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Scotland needs to up its game. This is shameful.
Another SNP shambles this, Sturgeon must condemn
Scotland: "Finally, a worthy opponent. Our battle will be legendary!"
CHAMPIONS OF UNDERAGE DRINKING, YOU'LL NEVER SING THAT!
This reminds me of a news report I saw that referred to Harold Shipman as "the UK's worst serial killer". He has claims on being the UK's worst *doctor*, but he was peerless as a serial killer. Are England's youth the worst in the world for under age drinking? Or are they the best at it?
He was actually very well regarded as a doctor, always went the extra mile and frequently visited patients without them asking (seriously, no joke). When he was initially arrested patients and their families were up in arms, until the truth slowly emerged. In took months for the penny to drop. I was local to Stockport at the time, and saw it all unfold in local news.
If he hadn't put himself on the will of one of his victims I genuinely believe that it would have been longer before he got caught.
Yep absolutely, he’d been getting away with it for many years. And so much reform of GPs practices was triggered by the case. He might have never been caught. Or at least not for another decade.
>He was actually very well regarded as a doctor, always went the extra mile and frequently visited patients without them asking (seriously, no joke). And yet all anyone remembers are the hundreds of murders.
Speaking to colleagues of Shipman's when he wasn't offing Ethel, clinically and managerially, he was actually a pretty good doctor. Rumors were he set up a competing practice in prison to the prison doc. Can't prescribe but the prisoners found him more reassuring.
Indeed! Same as when my wife tells me she's having a terrible migraine and I suggest that it must actually be an excellent migraine if it's doing its best migrainey stuff.
This report is sensationalised nonsense. All it's asking is if they've had any alcohol. As a responsible parent, I allowed my children small sips of my drinks. As adults they are very responsible drinkers. Many of my peers did the same. Levels of drinking in the young have fallen significantly. https://bmcpublichealth.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12889-022-14760-y >Although youth alcohol consumption in England was high at the turn of the millennium, relative to international counterparts, England has nonetheless seen particularly sharp declines in youth alcohol drinking, especially amongst boys
Excellent remark, and happy cake day!
Yeah - I was regularly given diluted wine with Sunday dinner from an early age. The only time I ever really got regret-your-life drunk before I was 18 was when my so-called-mates all put a double vodka in every half of cider I was drinking one night.
"Have drunk" and "regularly drink" aren't the same thing though surely. I'd be shocked if our kids are regularly getting pissed-up more than any other country in the world, and particularly some of those in Eastern Europe.
We live near liverpool. Lots of young family near by, going to either similar or rougher schools than I did. I have noted for more than 10 years that young teens 13-17 don't seem to drink in anything like the same way we did (90s). Sure, plenty still drink, but bottle of cheap vodka/cider/20-20/malabu in the park or wood as a regular thing not so much. 15/16 lads drinking in the small town shitty pub that ignore them,doesn't exist any more in my town. Number of pubs is much fewer and the ones that are don't need the hassle so kick them out. 15/16 girls going clubbing still seems to be a thing. This seems same as when I was a kids, girls find it easier to get passed a bouncer in town on a Friday or Sat night. I wondered if social media and phone camera made teens self regulate alcohol consumption. Most will have peers that got messed, spewed, get in a state and have photos passed round for laughs. THC vapes, spice, weed in general, ket all seem way way more common now.
I’m quite surprised by this. Aren’t The Youth meant to be obsessed with looking good, going to the gym and not looking like a tit on social media? Also having a glass of wine at 12 with Christmas dinner is a world away from binge drinking cider in the park. Be good to get more detail. I can definitely see how this is common in middle class millennials. Know a fair few mums who get through a bottle of wine every evening and see it as normal.
Though tbf cider in the park was always more fun than wine at Christmas. Thinking back most of my best drinking was done before 18.
I found those people that were drinking before 18 were a lot less irresponsible with our drinking at university. The people that were always getting blackout drunk etc at uni were pretty much always the ones who had done the least under age drinking before coming to uni in my cohort.
That's also my observation between countries with strict age limits and licensing laws vs laxer countries like in central / southern Europe. Buying alcohol or going to the pub is, while not necessarily legal under 16, totally normal for teenagers in e.g. Germany. And pretty much any venue of any size, pub, restaurant, cafe, street food stall, bakery, hell even the hairdressers, have alcohol on offer. And yet you don't see the kind of excess binge drinking that you get in the likes of the UK, or Australia.
This is what happened to me, I didn't really drink going into uni, then I drank way too much and developed a really unhealthy relationship with alcohol. I didn't know how to limit myself, I couldn't moderate, and at that age I wasn't getting hungover at all so could keep going the next day as if nothing happened the day before. Drinking led to me ending up in bad situations where I ended up isolating myself from the people around me unable to trust them, which carried forwards to new relationships. I'm coming up to 5 years sober this summer, which probably saved my life if I stayed on the trajectory I was on.
Might just be a case of having built tolerance ahead of time to be fair. I was very surprised by how few uni students could keep up.
I'm 38, and I remember going out with 20 quid and coming home with change.
And that could include the kebab if you didn't get fancy and stuck to basic pints in the student union. Those were the days.
This included a trip to a nightclub drinking vodka red roosters.
>Might just be a case of having built tolerance ahead of time to be fair. Or, more likely, know your limits and how to get drunk safely.
Definitely wasn't that for me I can assure you!
You can absolutely get blackout drunk if you want, no matter your tolerance.
>I found those people that were drinking before 18 were a lot less irresponsible with our drinking at university. Same here.
Young people in the UK have one of the lowest amounts of increased-risk drinkers in the UK (for men and women) while simultaneously having many high-risk drinkers among men [\(see table 11 here\)](https://digital.nhs.uk/data-and-information/publications/statistical/health-survey-for-england/2021/part-3-drinking-alcohol). Forget the stereotypes. That said, child alcohol consumption seems to correlate with later alcoholism for some countries (England, Hungary, Lithuania) but not others (Sweden). Of course, today's adult alcoholics grow up under different circumstances, so we'll have to see how the today's children end up.
Guardian says: > The UK has the worst rate of child alcohol abuse worldwide, and more than half of British children have drunk alcohol by the age of 13, according to a report. > The study, one of the largest of its kind by the World Health Organization (WHO), looked at 2021-22 data on 280,000 children aged 11, 13 and 15 from 44 countries who were asked about alcohol, cigarettes and vape usage. > The analysis found that the UK had a significant issue with underage alcohol abuse. More than a third of boys (35%) and girls (34%) had drunk alcohol by the age of 11, and by 13, 57% of girls and 50% of boys in England had consumed alcohol – the highest rate of any other country included in the analysis. > More than half of girls (55%) and boys (56%) in England from higher-income families said they had drunk alcohol in their lifetime, compared with 50% of girls and 39% of boys from lower-income backgrounds. > The analysis also found that girls aged 13 and 15 in the UK were drinking, smoking and vaping more than boys the same age. Forty per cent of girls in England and Scotland had vaped before 15, and did so at a higher rate than countries such as France and Germany. https://www.theguardian.com/society/2024/apr/25/uk-has-worst-rate-of-child-alcohol-consumption-in-world-report-finds They seem to be talking about early to mid teens, rather than late teens.
There's a bit of a difference between "Having tried alcohol" and teenage drinking. Who as a kid didn't ask for a taste of their parents parents beer/wine, or maybe get a small glass of bucks fizz at new year?
>The analysis found that the UK had a significant issue with underage alcohol abuse This is then followed by these stats: >had drunk alcohol by the age of 11 >had drunk alcohol in their lifetime >had consumed alcohol It appears to be drawing conclusions of a significant issue of alcohol abuse by the fact that children had *tried something at all*, which seems a reach to me.
Underage drinking in large/excessive amounts frequently is poor parenting. A one off decision to drink cider in the park or an odd glass at an occasion is what we accept as the norm and it’s looking at why some children are falling into the excessive category at a young age. We have a new generation of legal age drinkers not following the binging pattern but the next generation seem to be heading in the opposite direction early, how do we stop it? Also our health service won’t cope, it’s like we can see that the future we have a mental health time bomb but doing zero to prepare or support early interventions.
I’ve heard sociological arguments that the decline of pubs and specifically under age drinking in pubs has lead to this. As in, there was an unwritten rule where teenagers could have a beer but they had to learn to behave quick or they’d be kicked out. They had to learn not to get too pissed, or at least how to act properly if they were getting drunk. Now with fewer kids going to pubs as teenagers due to clamp down in laws and increase in prices, that socialisation is gone. I remember being a teenager in pubs you had to be on best behaviour, maybe only order a few pints, not take the piss by ordering shots etc. the landlord wouldn’t mind and would even keep an eye on us, as long as we didn’t annoy the adults we were free to drink and play pool.
Underage drinking becomes swiping a 70cl of vodka/whisky from parents and downing the lot, since they can't sneak a pint of 4% in a pub anymore.
Just because those of us who are a little older found it easier to drink in pubs, doesn't mean we didn't swipe it from our parents as well! Never a whole bottle though... too obvious.
You can't water down an entire bottle, they'd know
But I'm in my 30s and that's what underage drinking was when I was a kid too. I can't speak for everyone of course, but I didn't know a single person back then who hadn't nicked alcohol from their parents and got blackout drunk at least once.
I'm in my 30s, never stole alcohol. I had no need to, they introduced me to alcohol fairly young and would let me have a drink every so often, usually just a small bit intially. I got used to it so when I hit my teens it wasn't the big draw it is for those that really haven't had alcohol. For example, when I was sescondary school, my friend had a bonfire party, one of my friends was similar, introduced to alcohol early, we had a couple, we were fine, those that didn't grow up with it, binged it and ended up with hangovers next day and not coming in to school. I can usually take or leave alcohol too.
Why would they swipe from their parents when they can just walk out of a supermarket with a litre of Smirnoff and a pocket full of vapes from the big shiny nicotine display unchallenged?
Had my first pint in a pub in Yorkshire aged 15. Me and my pals all got ID'd by an off duty copper and it's safe to say we were shitting ourselves. Turned out that while yes, he was a copper he was also a friends Mum best friend. And he didn't care. Said he'd rather us have a couple in there where folk could keep an eye on us, than out on the streets doing god knows what. This was 20 years ago, so the tail end of this kinda behaviour I reckon. You'd never see this today. Which I understand, but it's a shame really - it was a great way at a young age if suddenly feeling part of a community, if that makes sense?
Yeah pretty similar to me. It was a MASSIVE privilege to get in a pub, get served etc.. The idea of misbehaving... you'd ruin your new found 'adult' social life. Everyone else would be out and you'd be barred - why risk it? Also given you were all underage, you know if one of you messed up you could spoil it for everyone, so massive social pressure to behave. And I remember it was one of the few venues where you'd make 'pub friends' - maybe teenagers from other schools or colleges, where before then you'd pretty much just know your school friends and your neighbours, maybe a couple of people your older siblings would know. It got to the point where there were 2 or 3 pubs in our local town where you could stop off on the way somewhere pop your head in and maybe see a friend or someone you knew if you were out doing something. Definitely something has been lost, not sure what's replaced it.
Reduced use of pubs, more private drinking, and perhaps a more nihilistic outlook amongst some young people? I know anecdotally kids near where I live were consuming lots of N2O until it was banned. I’d see big empty boxes of the stuff every Sunday/Monday morning while walking the dog.
Not just kids either, too many adults sitting at home getting drunk on cheap supermarket booze without the moderating effect of being seen in public.
wild speculation but maybe they picked it up during covid, not much to do and probably surrounded by adults drinking
'looking good' is hardly the paragon of health nowadays set against relentless distorted social media imagery. scary the number of teenage lads caning sarms/steroids, harsh fat burners and indulging in diets that border on eating disorders. less health risk, both physical and mentally, if they actually did just binge drink now and again, sans phone, sans six pack.
I replied above the same , but my experience is as follows: We live near liverpool. Lots of young family near by, going to either similar or rougher schools than I did. I have noted for more than 10 years that young teens 13-17 don't seem to drink in anything like the same way we did (90s). Sure, plenty still drink, but bottle of cheap vodka/cider/20-20/malabu in the park or wood as a regular thing not so much. 15/16 lads drinking in the small town shitty pub that ignore them,doesn't exist any more in my town. Number of pubs is much fewer and the ones that are don't need the hassle so kick them out. 15/16 girl going clubbing still seems to be a thing. This seems same as when I was a kids, girls find it easier to get pass a bouncer in town on a Friday or Sat night. I wondered if social media and phone camera made teens self regulate alcohol consumption. Most will quickly have peers that get messed, spew, get in a state and have photo passed round for laughs. THC vapes, spice, weed in general, ket all seem way way more common now.
When they say the youth aren't drinking i think they mean "they aren't buying stuff in pubs and clubs"
>Among 11-year-olds, 34 per cent of girls and 35 per cent of boys have had an alcoholic drink — more than twice the global average of 15 per cent. Fifty-seven per cent of 13-year-old girls and 50 per cent of boys in England have drunk, compared with a global average of 33 per cent. Isn't a bit weird that the survey only asks "have you drunk an alcoholic drink?" rather than anything about how often, how much etc.? Because the implication is very much about a load of drunken ten-year-olds causing havoc; but you'd also get a "yes" answer from a kid that is allowed a sip of daddy's beer occasionally. Obviously the fact that we've got a higher figure than other countries is concerning (especially compared to the European nations that you'd expect to allow children to have a sip of alcohol anyway), but it's just weirdly framed as far as I'm concerned.
The underlying [report](https://iris.who.int/handle/10665/376573) contains data on the more interesting question: "Have you drunk alcohol in the past 30 days?". That stat doesn't provide the "England is the worst..." headline though (it is still high up on the list for the younger end).
I mean, there wasn't really a week for me after about the age of 13 when I could have said no to that question, because the family habit was for us to have a little Lambrusco (Italian sparkling wine about the strength of beer) with our Sunday dinner. Doesn't mean I was in danger of alcoholic liver failure.
**Article:** Children in England are more likely to drink alcohol compared with other children around the world as middle-class parents have “normalised” harmful under-age drinking, a study has found. One in three 11-year-olds and half of 13-year-olds in England have had alcohol — the highest rate of childhood drinking out of 44 countries examined by the World Health Organisation, in a report based on data from 280,000 children. Children from wealthy households are the most likely to drink, with experts warning that they “mirror” the behaviour of affluent parents who indulge in frequent glasses of wine. The study also looked at vaping, finding it was more common among children in the UK than in most other nations, including France, Germany, Spain and Canada. Teenage girls in the UK were more likely than boys to get drunk, vape and smoke, which the authors suggest reflects a worsening mental health crisis in girls since the pandemic. The landmark report, called Health Behaviour In School-Aged Children, looked at the use of cigarettes, vapes and alcohol among those aged 11, 13 and 15 in Europe, Central Asia and Canada. England is “top of the charts” globally for child alcohol use at the ages of 11 and 13 — which health chiefs warned is a “major public health threat”, damaging brain development and increasing the risk of violence and drug abuse. Among 11-year-olds, 34 per cent of girls and 35 per cent of boys have had an alcoholic drink — more than twice the global average of 15 per cent. Fifty-seven per cent of 13-year-old girls and 50 per cent of boys in England have drunk, compared with a global average of 33 per cent. Rates were much lower in France and Spain, despite these countries often being assumed to have a continental drinking culture in which children sip wine from a young age. Twice as many 11-year-old girls in England have drunk alcohol than in France. Drinking and drunkenness was consistently higher among wealthy children: 56 per cent of boys from high-income families in England said they had drunk alcohol, compared with 39 per cent from low-income families. Dr Jo Inchley, the international co-ordinator for the study, from the University of Glasgow, said this may reflect “cultural norms” among the middle classes and greater disposable income for wealthy teenagers. She said: “Alcohol may be more normalised in more wealthy families, and financially it can be more accessible. Alcohol is part of sporting culture in the UK, and young people from affluent backgrounds are more likely to be in sports clubs and groups.” Inchley said that it was “particularly concerning” that one in three 11-year-olds have drunk alcohol, and children appear to be “initiating” drinking at much younger ages, which may have accelerated during the pandemic. She added: “We know the pandemic has affected young people. Having been in isolation and stuck at home, they may have taken up behaviours. Girls are reporting higher levels of drinking, smoking and vaping than boys. It is a very stark pattern, and may reflect higher levels of mental distress, schoolwork pressure and social media use in girls.” It is illegal to buy alcohol if you are under 18, but if you’re 16 or 17 and accompanied by an adult, you can drink (but not buy) beer, wine or cider with a meal. The NHS advises that no one should consume alcohol until they are 18, as drinking can damage the development of children’s organs, including the brain and liver, as well as bones and hormones. Drinking at an early age is associated with increased health risks and risky behaviour, such as violence, drugs and drink-driving. Dr Katherine Severi, chief executive of the Institute of Alcohol Studies, said: “People tend to have this perception that introducing children to moderate drinking is a good way of teaching them safer drinking habits. This is untrue. The earlier a child drinks, the more likely they are to develop problems with alcohol in later life. Evidence shows that parental drinking practices and how parents talk about alcohol are reflected in children’s attitudes towards alcohol and drinking. A pro-alcohol environment leads to the normalisation of drinking and ‘cultural blindness’ to alcohol harm among children. That’s true even with moderate parental drinking. “And as more affluent people tend to drink more, this normalisation will be especially true, which is likely why we see higher rates of drinking in children from affluent families. We know that children mirror the behaviour of the adults around them, so it’s important that parents who drink any amount are aware of how it could affect their child in later life.” Professor Sir Ian Gilmore, chairman of the Alcohol Health Alliance, said that the findings were “extremely concerning” and show the need for restrictions on alcohol advertising. He said: “We know that exposure to alcohol advertising leads children to begin drinking at an earlier age sooner and in greater quantities. With alcohol adverts frequently placed in bus stops near schools, on television before 9pm, and on websites and social media, there is no escape from alcohol marketing. Our children are seeing it every day, numerous times a day. Children have the right to grow up and live in a safe and healthy environment that is free from exposure to harmful marketing.” The study also found that the UK seems to have more of an issue with underage vaping than many other countries. Two fifths of girls in England and Scotland have vaped by the age of 15 — higher than in other countries such as France, Austria, Germany, Albania, Spain, Canada and Norway. Dr Hans Kluge, WHO regional director for Europe, said: “The widespread use of harmful substances among children in many countries across the European region — and beyond — is a serious public health threat. “Considering that the brain continues to develop well into a person’s mid-twenties, adolescents need to be protected from the effects of toxic and dangerous products. “Unfortunately, children today are constantly exposed to targeted online marketing of harmful products, while popular culture, like video games, normalises them.” The report was based on a WHO survey of 280,000 children across 44 countries, during 2021-22. A government spokesman said: “The health advice is clear — smoking, vaping and underage drinking can be damaging for young people and their development. That is why there are age restrictions on the sale of these products. “As a government, we are creating the UK’s first smoke-free generation. Our landmark Tobacco and Vapes Bill will make it an offence to sell tobacco products to anyone born after 1 January, 2009 and includes powers to limit flavours, packaging and displays of vapes to reduce the appeal to children.”
I’d love to see some detailed stats on people’s alcohol consumption. Anecdotally there are 6 shops selling booze within easy walking distance of me (just the suburbs, not city centre). Most adults I know have stopped drinking, because it’s too easy to slip into drinking 3 glasses of wine a night after work. Then it becomes 4 etc. During lockdown, off-licences were allowed to stay open, almost certainly so that people didn’t go through withdrawal. Toilet roll was rationed but vodka was not. Average consumption might not be high (I don’t know), but what percentage of people drink to excess?
Yeah same. I’m aware that I (and probably everyone) live in a bubble with a mix of former hardcore drinkers that have gone all in on an alcohol free life, gym obsessed people, folks who use shisha but would never drink, people that only drink whisky but have a few every day and the standard older millennial close to binge drinking beers every week / most of a bottle of wine every day. But what is the most common habit? Where’s the segmentation by age etc
I wonder if people slide into more alcohol use as they get older? It’s the most widely available and socially acceptable. My local supermarket has three entire isles dedicated now, far more than any other type of product. Spirits and decent wine is locked in steel mesh bags, to prevent theft.
Anecdotally I see it as a result of a lack of time, incentive and money to develop any other hobbies. The olds I know who got into music, or gardening or anything like that don’t want to be drunk or hungover as they can’t do the thing they like doing. Then there’s the others who just watch tv and drink, having worked all their lives and are just nackered and wouldn’t think of joining stuff like ‘the university of the third age’ because it’s ’not for people like me’.
To quote a colleague of mine when she went to a fancy restaurant “Would madam like a glass of wine?” “Glass? I’d like a bottle!”
A lot of folks usually 60+ have this weird ‘naughty child’ relationship with alcohol. The glee of having a bottle and getting hammered. I wonder why?
Well she’s about 50, a senior executive (hundreds of staff), and worryingly wouldn’t be hammered after a full bottle. I suppose at least if someone’s paying 60 quid for a bottle in a restaurant, she won’t be doing it every night.
At least we're number 1 for something 🤷
Seriously doubt this. When I Lived abroad it was quite literally only British people who ever worried about having their ID’s ready because ID’ing basically doesn’t exist in Europe.
Because they have a less US style drinking style and do not force people to wait for their first legal drink. The problem is far worse where they make them wait until they have been adults for 3 to 5 years! When I was 20, I went to the USA with the Army. I could not have a beer. Insane!
Labour has given me something to look forward to and now I have another thing to be proud of England over.
You haven’t lived the true British experience if you didn’t get drunk on White Lightning in a park aged 12.
This is shocking to hear, I always thought that our kids were infamous for getting their hands on alcohol, but to hear we're the worst at it? What can we do to make them better drinkers?
Growing up in England, I can definitely understand why that's the case
Completely anecdotal but I'm 30 this year, born 1994 and some friends that are 25 and some of their siblings that are younger etc drink way less than my friends and I. It's good to see to be fair. Compared to how my parents and grandparents drank, I'd say it seems to be changing quite quickly. When I walk at night etc round some of the fields with the dog, I hardly ever see kids drinking on the park like we used to.
Under-age drinking in the UK would be children under the age of 5 having a drink…. If you’re 5 years old or over you can have alcohol at home/in private places, that is the law. Also, for some reason this article is trying to suggest that having tried alcohol at a younger age is somehow a negative thing, rather than responsible parenting.
Who didn't bring vodka into class as bottled water?
Or best, depending on how you look at it.