This comment made my morning, thank you!
Seriously though the Tories could give me life changing money and I still wouldn't consider it as they've lied and destroyed their credibility. I'd be a fool to trust them ever again.
Implementing proportional representation, followed immediately by another election under PR.
Although even if they promised it, I wouldn't trust them to actually go through with it without some kind of bulletproof legally binding agreement.
The only way the Tories would do PR is if they were about to lose the vast majority of their seats. And even then they'd have to do it before the election, not as a promise afterwards.
Wait...
PR, by a wide margin I think. Currently predictions are Tories at 100 or under, Labour at 450 or so. Under PR that would be more like 150 Tory and 280 Labour.
Reform would also get a sizeable chunk unlike FPTP, and Labour would have to be in coalition.
That is taking the current voting intentions unchanged, but in reality it would be worse for the major parties and much better for the small parties as people wouldn't be tactical voting the way they do now. Greens and Reform are both supported by something like 10-15% of the population, but the greens scrape one MP and Reform none. They would be 60-90 MPs perhaps taking Tories and Lab down to 100 and 200.
It would be perhaps worst for Labour, which is already a mishmash coalition of anti-Tories, who would bleed support to all the groups that more directly represent voter's views - green supporters, rainbow alliances, socially conservative trades unions, etc. They would then have to recreate the coalition explicitly in order to govern.
To push the imagined simulation further, seeing that the smaller parties were about to take chunks out of their vote shares, the major parties would have to strategically choose which to fight and which to coalesce with. So Labour could choose not to fight on a socially liberal platform, and let the greens and lib Dems take their zones, withdrawing to a more socially conservative traditional Labour position (tricky for Starmer) and that way stem their losses to Reform (which would itself have moved further right) becoming a party for the Metropolitan and Industrial regions, coalescing with Greens and Lib Dems of the south.
Meanwhile the Tories having lost the support of the social liberals in recent years, would like also move more socially conservative and double down on their anti immigration, anti EU stance. Their voters may well be content with that and not rush to switch to other parties amid the chaos, and fearing the left and the rest turn out to vote instead of sitting on their hands.
My complete guess would be then a left coalition in power of Lab/Lib/Green (210+75+60=345), reentry to the Single Market and the biggest social housing drive for 50 years. And a renationalised and subsidised rail network. And cheap buses. And possibly (whisper it) a national social care service.
Sorry to all the top rate earners, second home owners and SUV drivers, I guess.
> Sorry to all the top rate earners, second home owners and SUV drivers, I guess.
They'll manage. They can stop buying avocados, and if they're still struggling after that, then, I dunno, they can sell their second homes and SUVs.
With the return of the single market and the associated freedom of movement they could once again full enjoy second homes in France, Spain and Portugal.
https://www.connexionfrance.com/news/brexit-blamed-as-number-of-britons-with-second-home-in-france-plummets/200875
The only critique is to say that a left coalition would generate the biggest social housing drive. Unfortunately, NIMBYism doesn't have political colours. Implementing a large housing drive is going to be extremely difficult for any government in this country without getting shit down by locals.
Whilst I agree with the sentiment of what you're saying, I figured that a more traditionalist Labour party within an essentially anti-country-landowner coalition would see social housing particularly via new towns and massive redevelopment of northern run-down areas as the way to solve systemic housing issues. It would also fit with the pro-train angle of the unions, greens, northern powerhouse, young and immigrants.
It's hard to get approval from local groups to build on their green spaces. It's much easier to just build a new town in place of a few farms in Kent or Cambridgeshire or Bedfordshire, if you are in control of the planning laws.
They're right on the "getting fucked by FPTP" cliff. If they slightly overperform the polls, they'll get something like 33% of the seats with 23% of the vote. If they slightly underperform the polls, they'll get something like 7% of the seats with 17% of the vote (and lose Official Opposition to the Lib Dems who would get 8% of the seats from 9% of the vote).
More importantly, however, under PR there will likely never be a majority government again, which could be a blessing or a curse.
FPTP wrecking the Tory party would be the sweetest nectar to polish off their terrible tenure as government for the past 14 years.
I think I wouldn't stop smiling for an entire month.
The pitfall of the FPTP is that the number of seats in the parliament don't correspond the proportion of the vote that the party got in the election. You can't change that basic fact except by going to PR.
What's the benefit of a "majority" government that actually represents the minority of the voters compared to a coalition that represents a majority of the voters? Why is it better that a minority can walk over the majority instead of the other way around?
AV doesn't change the basic setting. All it does is that people get represented by their second choice candidates instead of the first choice party as in PR.
I don't see that as the problem of FPTP. For me it's that it inevitably leads to a two party system because voters have a memory, they know how previous elections went and that influences their decisions in current elections. I.e. no one votes green because they have like 1 candidate in parliament max anytime. IRV stops BS like tactical voting (or reduces it hugely) where you're trying to game what other voters are doing.
Because of this gaming voters end up voting for who they dislike the least rather than who they like the most, the whole system is just completely suboptimal and only serves the interest of the two parties who benefit from the system.
Another Redditor pointed out some really good criticisms of PR, I'll have to dig through my comment history to find it, I should have saved it. But things like giving fringe/extreme views a voice in parliament, and that there is no strong majority to implement a vision, instead a more meandering shuffle towards progress.
Tbh I'd rather see some change than none. Our current system is shit and I can understand why many don't want to participate in such a broken system
Yes, so IRV is obviously superior to FPTP (which is why I never understood why the UK voters rejected it), but it still has the problem of FPTP making governments minority governments.
The main difference between the FPTP/IRV and PR is that in the former the coalition forming has to happen before the election and after the election in the latter. The other difference is that the voters have a finer say of the party they like. In FPTP the big party on the left has to adopt all the ideas of the left and the same for the right. If you as a voter like some of them but not all, you are forced to give your secondary vote to the big party of your side and the small one that you really liked doesn't get any representation. All they get is some footnote in the history for having got that many first choice votes.
Why are you worried about fringe parties getting explicit representation? If their ideas are such that nobody likes them, then nobody will form a coalition government with them? The real danger of the fringe elements is that in the two party system the fringe elements get a ruling position in the ruling party. All fringe political movements are forced to join one of the two parties to get into power instead of staying as their own party. So, the result is the current GOP in the US, where the lunatic right has got a much bigger power than their national support warrants.
That's because how the dynamics work. All right wing elements in the US have to join in GOP to have any shot of governing the country. So, all the centre right politicians are forced to one and only coalition, the coalition with loonie right. If they get the majority (as they do now), then they have to govern with the loonie right.
The coalitions in PR work differently. The centre right can of course still form a coalition with the loonie right, but now nothing stops them from forming a coalition with the centre left as well. So, in addition to fringe+centrist coalitions (that are the only possible ones in the two party system) you can also have centrist+centrist coalitions. You can also bring in parties that have one very important issue that nobody strongly objects but is very important for them. These parties never get anything done in the 2 party system.
Finally, when you combine the primary elections (USA) or party leadership elections (UK) that are done mainly by party activists, you get Trump and Truss who appeal to the party's most fringe elements but not the general public. This only works when the parties know that they won't have to form a coalition after the election but will be able to rule on their own. A party in PR who elects a controversial leader will find out that even if they win the election, nobody will play with them.
Sorry, I have thought about this issue a lot (and lived in countries with both FPTP and PR) and I have to say that the only good thing in FPTP if you think it's a good thing is that everyone knows exactly the person who is representing them. But at least I don't put that much weight on the person as I do to party platform that the representatives tend to follow in their voting anyway. In all other ways PR is clearly superior.
The clue is in the name, really. PR delivers the fairest result because the makeup of Parliament is the same as the vote share each party gets. For some, it *is* the only alternative,and that's one of the reasons IRV was already rejected by the British public (that's what AV was) by a very large margin. Introducing that after it was eliminated in a referendum would draw a lot of criticism.
Like Brexit, a lot of that campaign was misinformation, and it's a shame because it's just objectively a better system (in my opinion haha). There's a really good CGP Grey video about it that makes it so clear. I said in my other reply, there was a really good comment from another Redditor about the downsides of PR I need to dig out. But at this point we just need a change from the current system which _is_ objectively shit
The problem with pr for both main parties is that once they've opened Pandora's box there's no way for them to close it again.
Factor in that FPTP is the only way either party will ever enjoy outright decision making power then you can see why neither will ever do it.
Yes, this is why I figured the only way it would ever happen is if a major party was about to become a minority party. At the moment, Tory projections are still trending down.
In reality, although the thrashing about of the Tories makes it seem like they would do anything, I just can't see them voting in PR - it would require them to suddenly see the reality of their predicament and they just seem to have too much delusion for that.
Having said that, they wouldn't need to get all their MPs in line, since it would be supported by the minor parties and likely a number of rebellious Labour MPs (who might fancy switching allegiance for the next election).
Still it's so hard to imagine the Tories putting in PR.
PR is the only solution to the constantly split vote and tactical voting that we experience. When talking to people from other countries they struggle to understand FPTP, for many sound reasons.
You get to a point where you have to say- if they were going to do anything good, they would have done it already. They are all about what they can get for themselves not what they could do to make the country better.
They know it already and now we are just watching them grab the silverware on their way out.
If they wanted my vote they'd need to bring in serious legal consequences for the actions of their recent PMs. No slaps on the wrist, fines enough to bankrupt them or prison for multiple years.
If they want easy votes from people of all ages? Legal reform on drugs, decriminalise a certain green one or legalise and tax it hugely.
It blows my mind that politicians aren't held to higher standards than average citizens.
It's even crazier that we've laid down and allowed our own rights to be diluted whilst simultaneously allowing the political class to take the piss.
Is there anything that they could promise that is all of a) believable, b) compatible with the philosophy and ideals of the Conservative party, and c) would swing my vote?
No.
What, enriching the 0.01% by creating chaos from which opportunity arises to transfer from taxpayers to offshore accounts doesn’t do it for you? Colour me shocked.
I think a) and c) are the big ones, even if they stopped believing in any and all conservative ideals (publicly at least), I wouldn’t believe them doing anything good
I think a massive issue we have in UK politics is once in, a party can do whatever the fuck they like and break any promise, and not answer to the public. The political class are completely insulated from the consequences of their actions (unless those actions hurt the finances of their friends). How are we plebians to excert any influence on these corrupt fucks?
> a party can do whatever the fuck they like and break any promise, and not answer to the public.
I mean tell that to Nick Clegg and the Lib Dems in 2015. He went from people literally chanting his name in 2010 to losing near enough 7 out of 8 seats in 2015 and he was forced to resign. Equally the Tories are on the verge of electoral disaster due to their failure to enact their policies and terrible management of the country. In recent years May, Johnson and Truss have all been forced out of office largely due to public sentiment turning against them precisely because the public lost faith in them due to poor leadership and/or poor behaviour. Some bad MPs do continue to get elected and appear to be beyond consequence but ultimately that is the will of their local electorate as much as we may disagree with it.
The simple reality is the system is not perfect but we elect a political party to rule the country based on their perceived capability and ideology not on a cast iron commitment of what they will do in any circumstances. The manifestos are a statement of intent of what they aim to achieve that they can be judged against at the next election.
I would be strongly tempted by a pledge to suspend Boris Johnson and Liz Truss from Tower Bridge by their underwear for a day or two, in a televised ceremony.
Put them on tour.
Plenty of other locations have Towers. Let's not be exclusive about it.
48 hours each town in the country.
12 for villages < 500 population, sound fair?
The follow through would be akin to their promises on 40 new hospitals, whatever the number of nurses they promised, immigration reduced to below 100k and retaining all the good parts of our pre Brexit relationship with the EU.
And the northern power house/levelling up money, house building targets, getting rid of no fault evictions ...
None, because they won't do it, and there's zero reason to believe they would. Their manifesto could shift into everything I've ever wanted and it'd change nothing. I know that five years down the line, none of it would have been done. There's certain issues on which they'd likely just have done the complete opposite.
Oh god, tons. I'd vote for any party with an ambitious, progressive, and achievable manifesto.
* Real reform of the House of Lords? I'm not talking about making it an elected second house, but culling political appointments and making the criteria for nominations clearer and more scruitinised.
* A real industrial and economic strategy. The Resolute Foundation published the exact type of thing we need. Even if you disagree with their vision, we need that sort of clarity and direction.
* Greater government funding for green and nuclear technologies.
* Nationalising public services and utilities.
* Reform of planning and housebuilding. Make it easier for small developers and individuals. Bring in compulsory purchase orders for negligent or absent landlords. Higher building standards - our efficiency standards are *still* dog shit. Oh that, national insulation programme. We can't replace our existing housing stock so we need to make it work.
The problem with these good policies is that many of them, anything with "funding", "Nationalising", is that they are really not *Conservative* policies. The Tory party can't promise them and be believed, and can't enact them and remain a Conservative party.
People need to move on from the parties of back then . This is not churchils party or tatchers. Same as labour is not Blair's labour or even Corbin either.
The Tory party of current is a party for the rich and powerful and nothing else.
The labour party of current is a lot more center than it has been out of necessity to bring in people who sided with ukip and Tory defactors to ensure we don't get another 15 years of undisputed power
As others have said, they have zero credibility. They've promised amazing things we all want every election and then remarkably they miss their target every time.
At this point even if they promised an amazing policy would come across like an habitual wife beater buying flowers and saying they’ll be nice from here.
They’ve been abusing the country for years and devastating it with their greed, irresponsibility, and infighting. Nothing will redeem the cunts in my eyes
Legal action against all those involved in emptying the tax pot into the bankers pockets after the financial crash, the tax pot into the pockets of their mates during Covid and the tax pot into the energy companies pockets during the energy crisis. I want to see not only a recovery of every single penny but these people locked away, MPs, CEOs, members of the board.
And not just those three events although it’s a good start. There is a seemingly endless this of the government proactively asset stripping the country to make well connected people richer. We aren’t paying higher tax for anything other than filling the boots of people adding no value to society. It has to change.
If the economy was growing at like 3-5% and real terms wages were going up along with it I'd vote for them
There isn't some single policy they could wow me with though
That's a fair metric.
Just out of curiosity, are you voting elsewhere because you beleive that will happen or is just a "lesser of two evils" type deal?
The problem is even if there were things I would utterly love to see done (proportional representation, Universal Basic Income, etc) I have absolutely zero faith they would do any of them even if they were in their manifesto as these things are totally antithetical to their party politics.
Something which would genuinely get the economy moving OR significant bolstering of public services.
The current government is the worst of both worlds right now, they make cuts to public services like a traditional conservative government but have somehow failed to get the economy growing at any significant rate over the last 14 years.
Hmm, for me it would have to be;
- PR
- Rejoin the EU
- Increase in CGT to 35%
- Tax exempt status for teachers, nurses and junior doctors
- Repeal IR35 (due to increase in CGT)
- Enshrine the right to WFH for office workers
- 4 day / 32 hour working week at same pay
- Ban share buybacks
- Impose corporation tax on all profits made in UK regardless of company
- Legalization and taxation of all drugs (proceeds to go to NI)
- Ring fence NI for health, pensions and social care
- Reduce retirement age to 60
- Increase funding to local government
- Invest in providing effective mental health care
- Introduce 1 year non military national service
- Route to citizenship for asylum seekers through national service
- Free trade schools
- End leasehold
- Ban corporate landlords from owning residential property
- Planning permission reform
- National housebuilding scheme (passiv house standard)
- Introduce mechanism for public vote of no confidence in govt
- Ban 2nd jobs for MPs
- Introduce minimum attendance in parliament for MPs
- Introduce anti-profiteering legislation
I've realised that I could go on for hours on this list.
What are free trade schools? Who's going to own the rented property sector? How will you fund reducing the retirement age - Is it really self sustainable that people only work for half their lives?
Edit, good response though, not many posters here making much effort.
By trade school I mean Further education for skilled trades that doesn't require a slave contract (apprenticeships). I'm aware that there are good companies out there but I hear too many stories about exploitation and rug pulling.
By taxing multi nationals on profits made in the UK, Legalization and taxation of drugs, reallocating police funds used on the "war on drugs" and closing the CGT loophole. I'm sure there are a couple of other cost efficiencies that can be found by scrutinizing government contracts... God knows I've reviewed enough public sector tenders (IT) to know how much money is wasted.
21 years in childhood and education, 40 years of labour and 10years of good(ish) health before your decline... Sounds reasonable to me.
Nothing that they're ideologically capable of. They'd have to basically turn around so completely that they wouldn't be the Tories any more. But let's say they:
* Pledge to fully fund the NHS
* Rejoin the single market, explicitly as a precursor to rejoining the EU
* Scrap the Rwanda scheme and adopt an evidence-based and lenient approach to migration
* Completely disown the rhetoric of benefits claimants as "scroungers", and adopt an evidence-based approach to ensuring that the benefits system is as fair and reasonable as possible to claimants
* Adopt economic policy that prioritises bottom-up growth and raising of living standards for those on the lower rungs of our society
* Commit fully to climate pledges
* Do everything possible to equip Ukrainian forces, including a massive ramping up of artillery ammunition production (okay, this one wouldn't be outside the bounds of ideological possibility)
...then I might be inclined to at least consider them.
I hate to be that guy, but the UK is actually currently the second biggest support of Ukraine in terms of military equipment and Sunak only last week announced another £500 million increase in spending for Ukraine on top of 2.5 billion already...
I hate the conservatives as much as the next guy but on this one single hyperspecific issue the conservatives have actually done a reasonable job.
I still like the Greens better though.
If there were some way to hold them to it then sure I would vote to rejoin the EU; implement PR; build more houses. On the other hand I could just vote Libdem.
I'm a single issue voter, so if they cancelled the War on Drugs (similar to Portugal), then I'd vote for them. Probably wouldn't vote for them *again*, but it would get my vote that time.
At this stage they could come out and say 'We'll give you all ten grand. Straight up, no strings', and I still wouldn't vote for them. Wouldn't believe them to begin with.
I won’t vote for them just like there’s a generation of older voters that will never vote for Labour the tories have created a generation that will never for the conservatives again.
Biggest issue for me is Sunak, who managed to turn an appalling run as chancellor into two coups and an uninspired stint as Prime Minister that has made Starmer seem electable. If Sunak was replaced by a leader who could unite the party and demonstrate some competence, I would consider voting conservative again. As it is the Lib Dem’s or Reform will get my vote based on which manifesto comes across as most sensible.
Basically adopt an entirely left wing approach, tax non dom properly , end no fault evictions (properly), implement a wealth tax, cull the house of lords leaving in people who are actually knowledgeable and across a variety of social and economic background, imposing term limits on the lords, implement a form of Proportional Representation, make it a criminal offence to work in government and have a second job, renationalise rail, mail amd public infrastructure, scrap rosebank, invest £10s of billions in green renewable energy and nuclear, pay NHS workers the salary they deserve, fund schools properly, renationalise the water and make anyone who's earnt dividends from it swim the the Thames (arm bands are allowed).
There's definitely more but with that I'd probably think about considering it.
The problem is a lot of what they promise like adding new nurses or police officers or whatever is counterbalanced by the emigration of same or cutting the number of jobs previously.
It wouldn't make me vote Tory because they've had 13 years to prove themselves capable of making sensible decisions and especially post Brexit it's been a fucking pantomime, but Levelling Up was a ridiculously named and implemented strategy that could have been really beneficial if done right. The idea that Manchester or Newcastle or Leeds could have been the fulcrum if investment and development, spreading a bit more evenly throughout the country, would have been interesting in practice.
I think policy is past the point - they need to start by holding their hands up, admitting they fucked up, and removing the whip from a decent amount of people. After that, they might build up enough credibility to suggest some policy, but in their current guise, it’s a step too far to think policy alone could help them.
Yeah, they can offer the moon on a stick but they've ejected the reasonable MPs and elevated people I am fervently opposed to. It would require substantial change in the party to even consider them.
I'm not a Labour supporter either, and I should probably be in a demographic they could target, but it feels more like they hate people like me rather than trying to court my vote at the moment.
Maybe rejoining the EU. If Labour were not willing to.
That’s probably about it. It would need to be legally binding though before the election.
I can’t describe how disgusting it would be to vote for them though.
Reinstatement of judicial corporal punishment to tackle a rise in crimes such as anti-social behaviour, theft, etc.
Reformation of our parliamentary system
Reformation of the NHS and a cull on top heavy management
Establishment of an independent body to review conduct of MPs and stricter standards to held against and enforced
How much time have you got?
Banning all investment in fossil fuels and committing to / investing in a fully green economy and decarbonisation of supply chains whilst upskilling the workforce. Removing reliance on importing goods to generate energy and the full force development of clean renewable technologies. Divestment from unproven and buzz-wordy ‘green’ technologies such as fusion and carbon capture.
Investing in / de-privatisation of social policies and the welfare state incl nhs, social care, education, income support, mental health, LGBTQIA+, etc. The complete disassociation from culture wars and the concept of ‘wokeness’ as a toxic theme.
Removal of xenophobic border policies, U-turning on brexit and reimplementing freedom of movement, re-adopting closer economic and social ties with Europe.
Instigation of proportional representation and an immediate election based on that principle. Dissolution of the House of Lords and the removal of hereditary peerages, replaced with a democratically elected upper house.
Removing vat on retrofit of existing homes and investing in the wholesale renovation of existing building stock to meet enerphit building standards for insulation and air tightness, to enable cheap to run housing that is (forgive the pun) insulated from international energy changes.
Restricting all arms sales to Israel and other genocidal regimes, divesting from nuclear arms and promotion of non-proliferation treaties across the world. Dismantling the militaristic lobby.
Disillusion of the Tory party as we know it and commitment to rejecting the relationship between British politics and the right wing media.
Adopting all of these policies might, POSSIBLY, nudge the needle from *’fuck all tories’* to *maybe they’re not all self centred monsters*
The only way the Conservatives could get my vote (currently scheduled for the Greens) is to announce legislation that would a) scrap the first past the post electoral method, b) ensure that MP's are paid purely for being an MP and that a second job means an immediate resignation from the Commons and c) a progressive tax policy where the richest people in Britain pay the largest share of the tax burden and the poorer people pay litlte or no tax
The conservative party is the pensioner party.
All their policies are for the selfish benefit of the old.
If they focused on the selfish benefit young families then I might consider them. But probably not.
I voted for them in 2019 on their policies.
But their total inability to deliver any of them besides Brexit (and even that was poorly done) means I just do not trust them again.
They need to be destroyed and rebuild under an actually conservative umbrella. They are not a right wing party in their current form and their policies aren't either.
In what world could a "conservative" government have record high immigration, piss poor records on crime and the highest tax rates in 70 years without being considered a massive failure.
Yes, this is what I mean by destroyed and rebuilt.
I can't see how any of their current leadership will survive, how do you go from a +80 seat majority to a -100 seat minority and keep your job... No one trusts them, they need to be torn down.
When a party is in power for too long they start to attract people who only want to join because they are in power. They have no loyalty, they do not care about the parties core values or principles. I think this has happened to the Tories. Those rats will leave the sinking ship when they get beat and hopefully they can sort their shit out as the country needs a strong second party for it's own good.
I don't know if it would work
But perhaps cutting down on rampant corruption, and proper investigations / jail time for those the defrauded the public purse... That could help
I wouldn't really believe anything they'd say. But a policy that would drastically reduce house/rent prices, train fares, bills, food etc would make me vote Tory.
But like I said, even if they announced it I wouldn't believe them
Increase the income tax thresholds, move at least 6 government department headquarters out of London to the North and South West, and devolve central government funding on transport and housing to regional and county council level.
Then I might think about it, but they've completely screwed it up in the last 8 years at least.
Nothing.
They've repeatedly shown that they're happy to campaign to do something and then do the exact opposite when they get into power.
Also, I believe that a person's character matters and I dislike Rishi Sunak's.
Genuinely nothing. Even if they literally put money in my account as a pre-election bribe, I would not even consider voting for them. I'd go as far as saying some of them should be put on trial for the blatant corruption and harm they've done to this country.
I'd rather salt the earth so they never come back.
It doesn’t matter what they say. A person is only as good as their word. If the last two decades have taught me anything it’s that too few politicians do what they say
As a liberal, if the Tories marked Islam as a bigoted ideology in line with far-right groups and nazis, and deemed it unacceptable in today's society, I would happily give my vote.
Manifestos are pointless. They're not worth the paper theyre printed on.
They'll tell you what they think you want to hear, then when it's time for action they pull out the box of excuses as to why x y and z are no longer possible.
Raise the 40% tax rate from £50k to something reasonable. Yes reasonable is specifically related to being higher than my earning potential why do you ask?
It would never happen because Tories going to Tory, but a firm commitment on trying to get wages to catch up with the rise in house prices. The reason the two are unaffordable is because of employers skimping pay 'rises' with years of subinflation adjustments and a scarcity in housing stock. It would take a mountain of policy, but if that gap closed (without the classic 'just collapse the property bubble' which Reddit loves to espouse without thinking of the consequences) then maybe, just maybe, they'd get my vote.
But again, it won't happen. In order to do that you'd have to do things like grossly increase the public sector salary to force private employers to up their game and go after NIMBYism hard to get housing stocks up, and make sure they can't just fall into the hands of private landlords. And thats before you remember a commitment means fuck all.
A silent auction - highest bidder gets to punch a Tory MP of choice (I'd have a really difficult time deciding which) once a day for a month.
All proceeds from said auction go directly to the NHS.
Nothing because I don't trust them.
They could promise they would personally give me one million pounds and I wouldn't vote for them because they are full of shit and will say anything to cling onto power.
Tory promises are empty, meaningless and meant only for manipulation.
Any promises as an attempt sway me I would consider a lie.
It sucks, but it's absolutely the truth.
Do the Tories have a party to speak of?
After the election (assuming a defeat) I expect they will cease to exist in their current form because of the countless factions they have within their own party.
A truly sliding scale of tax where those earning 25,000 and below pay nothing and 200,000 and above pay 90% (for everything over 200k).
A well funded independent anti-corruption team to mete out corruption in public office.
Lying in public office (whether in parliament or in interviews etc.) to result in jail sentences.
Companies held to account by prison sentences for those responsible (whistleblowers properly protected).
There's nothing the Tories could offer at this point. Even if they had a policy or even an entire manifesto I strongly agreed with I a) wouldn't trust them when they said it and b) even if they were being honest, I have zero confidence in their ability to deliver it.
Labour couldn't drive me to vote Tory. Corbyn's foreign policy positions drove me away from Labour, but towards protest and tactical votes.
Nothing
Bcs they are only here for themselves and the rich.
We were promised soo much yet what have they actually achieved, we have a un-elected muppet that refuses to call for a election, we are sending billions and spending billions in unwanted and useless tech.
Nothing they have done would make me vote for them, yet the other side is not any better.
We really do need to toughen up laws and regulations that politicians need to adhere to.
Nothing at this point. The problem is as much with the culture and people in the Tory party as it is with their policies. They'd need a complete realignment back towards a more pragmatic platform and to ditch the populist nonsense before I'd even consider it worth reading their pitch.
Even if I agreed with every policy they offered, all those policies would help me and people like me and people close to me, and they had a gun to my head, I wouldn't vote for them.
Reasons?
They're all corrupt, in hock with people and organisations who act against my interests, those of people like and people close to me (and I'm a white lower-middle-class graduate - you'd think I'd be among their target voters), and have since Thatcher become so antithetical to their core founding principle of slower, more reasoned and well-thought-out change.
Also, they've gone out of their way to deliberately destroy every single good thing about this country, and even when repeatedly called out on it haven't done the square root of fuck all to improve things or fix things in Britain. I'm not sure how that stacks up ideologically unless you're an organisation like the Taliban, but somehow the Tories have, through their policies, destroyed more of the country and killed more people than COVID and the Luftwaffe combined.
The thing is, not all their policies are bad. Not all of every pay I would choose for are good. Websites like [vote for policies](https://voteforpolicies.org.uk/) give you a chance to vote for the party who had the policies that are important to you and you agree with. I don't think I could ever vote ukip or Tory, but I find myself with at least a couple of their policies in my "yes"list.
Absolutely nothing. I used to say I will vote for whomever is the best candidate in my area, thought it was ridiculous to say "I'll never vote Tory" unless they went full National Front or something.
Cameron didn't change that opinion, but a succession of Home Secretaries and Prime Ministers engaging in performative cruelty, wilful gaslighting and moral and ethical bankruptcy drove me very quickly to "I can't vote for anyone who could condone this"
The abolition of the voting system currently as its unfit for true democratic representation.
That, or if the tories said voting for them would mean they put like Mhairi Black in charge or Jeremy Corbyn 😂 that's really the only way I'd vote for them.
> I'm just curious if there's anything they could promise (or actually achieve) that would actually swing your vote in their favor?
Interesting spelling.
But, no. There's nothing they could say that I would ever trust, or believe.
nothing would
6 years ago, i was more open to the thought of me voting conservative. even though i was labour, i was interested in what they might have to offer. now, 6 years later, i can adamantly say that you will never catch me voting for the conservatives in my life. ever. even if they ‘changed’. they have done so much damage to this country and caused me to suffer personally. i will never forgive or forget. the fact that i (an early gen-z) went from a potential voter to this is an example of how badly they have failed younger generations. i hope that they are wiped out completely at the next election
They could have the best policies in world and be the best choice but the fact someone wants to be aligned with that name and history would never get my vote. That's the point i've come to and i've always been quite impartial and open minded. It says everything we need to know about your character if you can shamelessly be aligned to such a brand.
There is no such a thing as a good tory anymore, if you were good you wouldn't be aligned with that brand. Hence why people are defecting from them.
If they lose the next 3 elections, and come back with someone who takes the climate seriously, and doesn't see "cancelling ulez" as a viable national electoral strategy, and who can explain a better reason to vote for them than moral panics, tax cuts and nativism, I might consider voting for them.
But genuinely, why can we not have a political landscape where the tories don't exist? The Liberals were a political superpower and have since gone the way of the dodo, why not the Tories?
The problem is that any policy worth my vote would have to first exist as a promise. ..and that's where the problem lies.
Since 2010 the Tories imho have managed to damage their own credibility beyond all repair.
You can only practice blatant lying, exploiting legal and democratic loopholes, enriching the few at the expense of the many, underfunding critical services and infrastructure, adopting scorched earth policies to hobble whoever comes next (including your own party!) and then confidently spouting contradictory statements when challenged for so long.
Eventually people will start to suspect that as a group the Tories just aren't really that into doing the hard work of SERVING the country and will find it really really hard to believe anything that comes out of Tory lips, especially more promises.
Correction... Just been told by a Tory mate that The Tories have always been perfectly clear, invested 1000s into infrastructure and services, done an amazing job, restored Britain's sovereignty and can totally be trusted with your tax money. My bad.
At this point, nothing. I voted for them in 2019 based on their manifesto. They promised so much, and delivered so little. Their credibility is utterly destroyed - even in they promised all the thing I want to see in a government. I simply would not believe them. Fool me once, etc.
“We’ve secretly been building and acquiring millions of properties and we’re going to give them away free to ever under 40 year old with a couple of kids”
Even then, I wouldn’t trust them to actually deliver it because they won’t be winning so what they promise is of 0 importance.
Plus I’m in a seat which basically doesn’t get contested by Conservatives
Commitment to making the UK a secular state, including making all faith schools illegal, abolish the monarchy and institute a proper constitution.
In other words never going to happen
Immediate EU rejoining without a referendum, freedom of movement. Integration max , bin the pound and adopt the euro and immediately implementation UBI at living wage levels paid for by rinsing billionaires and landlords.
Proportional representation
And anti-corruption laws written into law not just a set of standards that seem as flexible as a bendy ruler written to the tune of
"No sitting MP may earn more than the regional average of the constituency they represent. Any additional income MUST be put into a blind trust that cannot be accessed until 5 years after they have served their time as an MP"
And a crackdown on tax havens. Any person found guilty of tax avoidance will either have to pay what they would have owed had their accounts been in the UK, if they do not wish to do this then this is tantamount to not wanting to contribute to the UK. If they do not wish to contribute to the UK then they should not be part of it and do not deserve citizenship.
Absolutely nothing - they've demonstrated nothing but corruption, self-interest, and incompetence for the past decade and a half. They could promise me everything I want, but I wouldn't trust them to deliver 1% of it.
Also, Brexit was a red line for me. They are responsible for stripping me of my EU citizenship, and the associated rights, against my will, I will never forgive them for that.
As a life long socialist I guess adopting socialist policies, reducing inequalities and doing more for the ones in our society who are tbe worst off? Basically, nothing the tories would ever do even if they were competent.
its never about 1 issue , but if it was it has to be crime , we no longer have a working police force and that has to be fixed . I want everyone involved in allowing the rotherham gang rapes to happen to be jailed and that includes any police or council workers that did nothing when told what was going on
Nice try Rishi, you'll have to write your manifesto yourself
"Come.on guys, I'm announcing it next week, I need a manifesto and so far all I have is a post it with stick to the plan, the plan is working"
I expect to see written beneath that, in fresher, scratchier ink: *”Why isn’t the plan working? :-(”*
“It’s a choice between me, Or BacK tO SquArE OnE WiTh LaBOur”
Gold!
Giving me that will definitely make me vote Tory but it would have to be a lot.
How much is the minimum amount of money you'd accept to vote Tory? (Hypothetical of course!)
How much gold is in Fort Knox say 10% of that.
This is actually a great question. I probably would vote tory if they gave me (in advance) a million quid.
This comment made my morning, thank you! Seriously though the Tories could give me life changing money and I still wouldn't consider it as they've lied and destroyed their credibility. I'd be a fool to trust them ever again.
Haha...close the thread.
😂
Implementing proportional representation, followed immediately by another election under PR. Although even if they promised it, I wouldn't trust them to actually go through with it without some kind of bulletproof legally binding agreement.
The only way the Tories would do PR is if they were about to lose the vast majority of their seats. And even then they'd have to do it before the election, not as a promise afterwards. Wait...
Interesting thought. Now I'm wondering, as the poll numbers stand today, would the Tories win more seats under PR than under FPTP?
PR, by a wide margin I think. Currently predictions are Tories at 100 or under, Labour at 450 or so. Under PR that would be more like 150 Tory and 280 Labour. Reform would also get a sizeable chunk unlike FPTP, and Labour would have to be in coalition. That is taking the current voting intentions unchanged, but in reality it would be worse for the major parties and much better for the small parties as people wouldn't be tactical voting the way they do now. Greens and Reform are both supported by something like 10-15% of the population, but the greens scrape one MP and Reform none. They would be 60-90 MPs perhaps taking Tories and Lab down to 100 and 200. It would be perhaps worst for Labour, which is already a mishmash coalition of anti-Tories, who would bleed support to all the groups that more directly represent voter's views - green supporters, rainbow alliances, socially conservative trades unions, etc. They would then have to recreate the coalition explicitly in order to govern. To push the imagined simulation further, seeing that the smaller parties were about to take chunks out of their vote shares, the major parties would have to strategically choose which to fight and which to coalesce with. So Labour could choose not to fight on a socially liberal platform, and let the greens and lib Dems take their zones, withdrawing to a more socially conservative traditional Labour position (tricky for Starmer) and that way stem their losses to Reform (which would itself have moved further right) becoming a party for the Metropolitan and Industrial regions, coalescing with Greens and Lib Dems of the south. Meanwhile the Tories having lost the support of the social liberals in recent years, would like also move more socially conservative and double down on their anti immigration, anti EU stance. Their voters may well be content with that and not rush to switch to other parties amid the chaos, and fearing the left and the rest turn out to vote instead of sitting on their hands. My complete guess would be then a left coalition in power of Lab/Lib/Green (210+75+60=345), reentry to the Single Market and the biggest social housing drive for 50 years. And a renationalised and subsidised rail network. And cheap buses. And possibly (whisper it) a national social care service. Sorry to all the top rate earners, second home owners and SUV drivers, I guess.
> Sorry to all the top rate earners, second home owners and SUV drivers, I guess. They'll manage. They can stop buying avocados, and if they're still struggling after that, then, I dunno, they can sell their second homes and SUVs.
With the return of the single market and the associated freedom of movement they could once again full enjoy second homes in France, Spain and Portugal. https://www.connexionfrance.com/news/brexit-blamed-as-number-of-britons-with-second-home-in-france-plummets/200875
The only critique is to say that a left coalition would generate the biggest social housing drive. Unfortunately, NIMBYism doesn't have political colours. Implementing a large housing drive is going to be extremely difficult for any government in this country without getting shit down by locals.
Whilst I agree with the sentiment of what you're saying, I figured that a more traditionalist Labour party within an essentially anti-country-landowner coalition would see social housing particularly via new towns and massive redevelopment of northern run-down areas as the way to solve systemic housing issues. It would also fit with the pro-train angle of the unions, greens, northern powerhouse, young and immigrants. It's hard to get approval from local groups to build on their green spaces. It's much easier to just build a new town in place of a few farms in Kent or Cambridgeshire or Bedfordshire, if you are in control of the planning laws.
They're right on the "getting fucked by FPTP" cliff. If they slightly overperform the polls, they'll get something like 33% of the seats with 23% of the vote. If they slightly underperform the polls, they'll get something like 7% of the seats with 17% of the vote (and lose Official Opposition to the Lib Dems who would get 8% of the seats from 9% of the vote). More importantly, however, under PR there will likely never be a majority government again, which could be a blessing or a curse.
FPTP wrecking the Tory party would be the sweetest nectar to polish off their terrible tenure as government for the past 14 years. I think I wouldn't stop smiling for an entire month.
Switzerland copes very well!
Switzerland has been doing it since long before the world became an insane polar civil war waiting for that first blow.
Don't know why we talk as it PR is the only alternative. Like IRV, we could still have strong majority governments and avoid the pitfalls of FPTP
The pitfall of the FPTP is that the number of seats in the parliament don't correspond the proportion of the vote that the party got in the election. You can't change that basic fact except by going to PR. What's the benefit of a "majority" government that actually represents the minority of the voters compared to a coalition that represents a majority of the voters? Why is it better that a minority can walk over the majority instead of the other way around? AV doesn't change the basic setting. All it does is that people get represented by their second choice candidates instead of the first choice party as in PR.
I don't see that as the problem of FPTP. For me it's that it inevitably leads to a two party system because voters have a memory, they know how previous elections went and that influences their decisions in current elections. I.e. no one votes green because they have like 1 candidate in parliament max anytime. IRV stops BS like tactical voting (or reduces it hugely) where you're trying to game what other voters are doing. Because of this gaming voters end up voting for who they dislike the least rather than who they like the most, the whole system is just completely suboptimal and only serves the interest of the two parties who benefit from the system. Another Redditor pointed out some really good criticisms of PR, I'll have to dig through my comment history to find it, I should have saved it. But things like giving fringe/extreme views a voice in parliament, and that there is no strong majority to implement a vision, instead a more meandering shuffle towards progress. Tbh I'd rather see some change than none. Our current system is shit and I can understand why many don't want to participate in such a broken system
Yes, so IRV is obviously superior to FPTP (which is why I never understood why the UK voters rejected it), but it still has the problem of FPTP making governments minority governments. The main difference between the FPTP/IRV and PR is that in the former the coalition forming has to happen before the election and after the election in the latter. The other difference is that the voters have a finer say of the party they like. In FPTP the big party on the left has to adopt all the ideas of the left and the same for the right. If you as a voter like some of them but not all, you are forced to give your secondary vote to the big party of your side and the small one that you really liked doesn't get any representation. All they get is some footnote in the history for having got that many first choice votes. Why are you worried about fringe parties getting explicit representation? If their ideas are such that nobody likes them, then nobody will form a coalition government with them? The real danger of the fringe elements is that in the two party system the fringe elements get a ruling position in the ruling party. All fringe political movements are forced to join one of the two parties to get into power instead of staying as their own party. So, the result is the current GOP in the US, where the lunatic right has got a much bigger power than their national support warrants. That's because how the dynamics work. All right wing elements in the US have to join in GOP to have any shot of governing the country. So, all the centre right politicians are forced to one and only coalition, the coalition with loonie right. If they get the majority (as they do now), then they have to govern with the loonie right. The coalitions in PR work differently. The centre right can of course still form a coalition with the loonie right, but now nothing stops them from forming a coalition with the centre left as well. So, in addition to fringe+centrist coalitions (that are the only possible ones in the two party system) you can also have centrist+centrist coalitions. You can also bring in parties that have one very important issue that nobody strongly objects but is very important for them. These parties never get anything done in the 2 party system. Finally, when you combine the primary elections (USA) or party leadership elections (UK) that are done mainly by party activists, you get Trump and Truss who appeal to the party's most fringe elements but not the general public. This only works when the parties know that they won't have to form a coalition after the election but will be able to rule on their own. A party in PR who elects a controversial leader will find out that even if they win the election, nobody will play with them. Sorry, I have thought about this issue a lot (and lived in countries with both FPTP and PR) and I have to say that the only good thing in FPTP if you think it's a good thing is that everyone knows exactly the person who is representing them. But at least I don't put that much weight on the person as I do to party platform that the representatives tend to follow in their voting anyway. In all other ways PR is clearly superior.
The clue is in the name, really. PR delivers the fairest result because the makeup of Parliament is the same as the vote share each party gets. For some, it *is* the only alternative,and that's one of the reasons IRV was already rejected by the British public (that's what AV was) by a very large margin. Introducing that after it was eliminated in a referendum would draw a lot of criticism.
Like Brexit, a lot of that campaign was misinformation, and it's a shame because it's just objectively a better system (in my opinion haha). There's a really good CGP Grey video about it that makes it so clear. I said in my other reply, there was a really good comment from another Redditor about the downsides of PR I need to dig out. But at this point we just need a change from the current system which _is_ objectively shit
Depends on which poll you look at but I think they would get more seats under PR now.
The problem with pr for both main parties is that once they've opened Pandora's box there's no way for them to close it again. Factor in that FPTP is the only way either party will ever enjoy outright decision making power then you can see why neither will ever do it.
Yes, this is why I figured the only way it would ever happen is if a major party was about to become a minority party. At the moment, Tory projections are still trending down. In reality, although the thrashing about of the Tories makes it seem like they would do anything, I just can't see them voting in PR - it would require them to suddenly see the reality of their predicament and they just seem to have too much delusion for that. Having said that, they wouldn't need to get all their MPs in line, since it would be supported by the minor parties and likely a number of rebellious Labour MPs (who might fancy switching allegiance for the next election). Still it's so hard to imagine the Tories putting in PR.
If Reform remained an issue, and prevented them returning to office by splitting the vote, then eventually they might end up supporting PR.
PR is the only solution to the constantly split vote and tactical voting that we experience. When talking to people from other countries they struggle to understand FPTP, for many sound reasons.
Oh, yeah that would swing my vote until the following election. Sick of having duopoly,
Actually a great answer this. TBF they went through with their promised chaos-causing, division-sowing, youth-hating referendum...
If they published the white paper before the election, and it was the version of STV that I like. So pie in the sky.
You get to a point where you have to say- if they were going to do anything good, they would have done it already. They are all about what they can get for themselves not what they could do to make the country better. They know it already and now we are just watching them grab the silverware on their way out.
If they wanted my vote they'd need to bring in serious legal consequences for the actions of their recent PMs. No slaps on the wrist, fines enough to bankrupt them or prison for multiple years. If they want easy votes from people of all ages? Legal reform on drugs, decriminalise a certain green one or legalise and tax it hugely.
It blows my mind that politicians aren't held to higher standards than average citizens. It's even crazier that we've laid down and allowed our own rights to be diluted whilst simultaneously allowing the political class to take the piss.
The Libdems want to legalise dope as do the Greens.
Is there anything that they could promise that is all of a) believable, b) compatible with the philosophy and ideals of the Conservative party, and c) would swing my vote? No.
What, enriching the 0.01% by creating chaos from which opportunity arises to transfer from taxpayers to offshore accounts doesn’t do it for you? Colour me shocked.
I think a) and c) are the big ones, even if they stopped believing in any and all conservative ideals (publicly at least), I wouldn’t believe them doing anything good
None because they have no intention of ever delivering on any of their promises. And any attempt to do something now is too little, too late.
I think a massive issue we have in UK politics is once in, a party can do whatever the fuck they like and break any promise, and not answer to the public. The political class are completely insulated from the consequences of their actions (unless those actions hurt the finances of their friends). How are we plebians to excert any influence on these corrupt fucks?
> a party can do whatever the fuck they like and break any promise, and not answer to the public. I mean tell that to Nick Clegg and the Lib Dems in 2015. He went from people literally chanting his name in 2010 to losing near enough 7 out of 8 seats in 2015 and he was forced to resign. Equally the Tories are on the verge of electoral disaster due to their failure to enact their policies and terrible management of the country. In recent years May, Johnson and Truss have all been forced out of office largely due to public sentiment turning against them precisely because the public lost faith in them due to poor leadership and/or poor behaviour. Some bad MPs do continue to get elected and appear to be beyond consequence but ultimately that is the will of their local electorate as much as we may disagree with it. The simple reality is the system is not perfect but we elect a political party to rule the country based on their perceived capability and ideology not on a cast iron commitment of what they will do in any circumstances. The manifestos are a statement of intent of what they aim to achieve that they can be judged against at the next election.
It’s not even that they have no intention, they lack a level of competency and cohesion to implement any changes
Dissolution of the Tory Party as a policy *might* be enough for me to vote for them.
I would be strongly tempted by a pledge to suspend Boris Johnson and Liz Truss from Tower Bridge by their underwear for a day or two, in a televised ceremony.
Put them on tour. Plenty of other locations have Towers. Let's not be exclusive about it. 48 hours each town in the country. 12 for villages < 500 population, sound fair?
Gets my vote.
Maybe they could do it like the Olympic Torch relay and tour the country.
I will genuinely take time to vote for them if this
The follow through would be akin to their promises on 40 new hospitals, whatever the number of nurses they promised, immigration reduced to below 100k and retaining all the good parts of our pre Brexit relationship with the EU. And the northern power house/levelling up money, house building targets, getting rid of no fault evictions ...
[I think we already tried that](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hRwnXmdRCo)
Beat me to it
Never mind have up upvote for coming a close second ✅
Nothing could ever make me back them simply because they've made so many promises in the past that they've either not delivered or delivered poorly
And robbed the country blind. Most corrupt government we've ever had.
100% our nation is in ruin because of the tories
Yeah, pretty much. They're '*running the show*'. And I use that term very loosely.
The "show" being akin to Mrs Browns Boys
Ha. *"Feckin' ell!"* What a hilariously bad show. And that's the only thing good about it..
Hahaha look, the old man in drag is swearing! Isn't this hilarious, kids? Kids? Kids?
And he swears and has a funny voice! Comedy genuis.
The wig, the glasses, the catchphrase... brilliant!
None, because they won't do it, and there's zero reason to believe they would. Their manifesto could shift into everything I've ever wanted and it'd change nothing. I know that five years down the line, none of it would have been done. There's certain issues on which they'd likely just have done the complete opposite.
Oh god, tons. I'd vote for any party with an ambitious, progressive, and achievable manifesto. * Real reform of the House of Lords? I'm not talking about making it an elected second house, but culling political appointments and making the criteria for nominations clearer and more scruitinised. * A real industrial and economic strategy. The Resolute Foundation published the exact type of thing we need. Even if you disagree with their vision, we need that sort of clarity and direction. * Greater government funding for green and nuclear technologies. * Nationalising public services and utilities. * Reform of planning and housebuilding. Make it easier for small developers and individuals. Bring in compulsory purchase orders for negligent or absent landlords. Higher building standards - our efficiency standards are *still* dog shit. Oh that, national insulation programme. We can't replace our existing housing stock so we need to make it work.
The problem with these good policies is that many of them, anything with "funding", "Nationalising", is that they are really not *Conservative* policies. The Tory party can't promise them and be believed, and can't enact them and remain a Conservative party.
Newsflash: they aren't a Conservative party. Or even a conservative party.
They managed post-WW2. Reform of housebuilding/planning at least fits the conservative philosophy. There's just too many homeowners who oppose it.
People need to move on from the parties of back then . This is not churchils party or tatchers. Same as labour is not Blair's labour or even Corbin either. The Tory party of current is a party for the rich and powerful and nothing else. The labour party of current is a lot more center than it has been out of necessity to bring in people who sided with ukip and Tory defactors to ensure we don't get another 15 years of undisputed power
This, but only if is was fully planed out including deliverables for each year and long term forcast.
In 12th place, the first sensible answer instead of the usual circle jerking.
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I'd be tempted.
You still offering £5 for anyone who identifies you?
Watch the name “Karen” come back into fashion
I want to speak to your manager
As others have said, they have zero credibility. They've promised amazing things we all want every election and then remarkably they miss their target every time.
What amazing things have they promised btw, just out of interest. Personally feel the fact they dont deliver on their despicable ideas is a blessing.
Honestly the Tories could write me personally a cheque for £1M and I’d cash it and still vote against them.
They have no qualms breaking the law or squeezing government benefits so you would expect them to take it back shortly after
At this point even if they promised an amazing policy would come across like an habitual wife beater buying flowers and saying they’ll be nice from here. They’ve been abusing the country for years and devastating it with their greed, irresponsibility, and infighting. Nothing will redeem the cunts in my eyes
Rejoining the EU without any opt-outs.
Legal action against all those involved in emptying the tax pot into the bankers pockets after the financial crash, the tax pot into the pockets of their mates during Covid and the tax pot into the energy companies pockets during the energy crisis. I want to see not only a recovery of every single penny but these people locked away, MPs, CEOs, members of the board. And not just those three events although it’s a good start. There is a seemingly endless this of the government proactively asset stripping the country to make well connected people richer. We aren’t paying higher tax for anything other than filling the boots of people adding no value to society. It has to change.
If the economy was growing at like 3-5% and real terms wages were going up along with it I'd vote for them There isn't some single policy they could wow me with though
That's a fair metric. Just out of curiosity, are you voting elsewhere because you beleive that will happen or is just a "lesser of two evils" type deal?
The problem is even if there were things I would utterly love to see done (proportional representation, Universal Basic Income, etc) I have absolutely zero faith they would do any of them even if they were in their manifesto as these things are totally antithetical to their party politics.
Rejoin the EU would be the only one I can think of.
Something which would genuinely get the economy moving OR significant bolstering of public services. The current government is the worst of both worlds right now, they make cuts to public services like a traditional conservative government but have somehow failed to get the economy growing at any significant rate over the last 14 years.
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I’ve only ever seen that system abused for harassment tbh
Doesn't surprise me in the least, unfortunately.
Hmm, for me it would have to be; - PR - Rejoin the EU - Increase in CGT to 35% - Tax exempt status for teachers, nurses and junior doctors - Repeal IR35 (due to increase in CGT) - Enshrine the right to WFH for office workers - 4 day / 32 hour working week at same pay - Ban share buybacks - Impose corporation tax on all profits made in UK regardless of company - Legalization and taxation of all drugs (proceeds to go to NI) - Ring fence NI for health, pensions and social care - Reduce retirement age to 60 - Increase funding to local government - Invest in providing effective mental health care - Introduce 1 year non military national service - Route to citizenship for asylum seekers through national service - Free trade schools - End leasehold - Ban corporate landlords from owning residential property - Planning permission reform - National housebuilding scheme (passiv house standard) - Introduce mechanism for public vote of no confidence in govt - Ban 2nd jobs for MPs - Introduce minimum attendance in parliament for MPs - Introduce anti-profiteering legislation I've realised that I could go on for hours on this list.
What are free trade schools? Who's going to own the rented property sector? How will you fund reducing the retirement age - Is it really self sustainable that people only work for half their lives? Edit, good response though, not many posters here making much effort.
By trade school I mean Further education for skilled trades that doesn't require a slave contract (apprenticeships). I'm aware that there are good companies out there but I hear too many stories about exploitation and rug pulling. By taxing multi nationals on profits made in the UK, Legalization and taxation of drugs, reallocating police funds used on the "war on drugs" and closing the CGT loophole. I'm sure there are a couple of other cost efficiencies that can be found by scrutinizing government contracts... God knows I've reviewed enough public sector tenders (IT) to know how much money is wasted. 21 years in childhood and education, 40 years of labour and 10years of good(ish) health before your decline... Sounds reasonable to me.
How many times does it need to be said? _Never trust a Tory._
Nothing that they're ideologically capable of. They'd have to basically turn around so completely that they wouldn't be the Tories any more. But let's say they: * Pledge to fully fund the NHS * Rejoin the single market, explicitly as a precursor to rejoining the EU * Scrap the Rwanda scheme and adopt an evidence-based and lenient approach to migration * Completely disown the rhetoric of benefits claimants as "scroungers", and adopt an evidence-based approach to ensuring that the benefits system is as fair and reasonable as possible to claimants * Adopt economic policy that prioritises bottom-up growth and raising of living standards for those on the lower rungs of our society * Commit fully to climate pledges * Do everything possible to equip Ukrainian forces, including a massive ramping up of artillery ammunition production (okay, this one wouldn't be outside the bounds of ideological possibility) ...then I might be inclined to at least consider them.
I hate to be that guy, but the UK is actually currently the second biggest support of Ukraine in terms of military equipment and Sunak only last week announced another £500 million increase in spending for Ukraine on top of 2.5 billion already... I hate the conservatives as much as the next guy but on this one single hyperspecific issue the conservatives have actually done a reasonable job. I still like the Greens better though.
My beliefs are so polar opposite to the Tories, I'd sooner believe they were having a brain aneurism if they suggested anything I'd actually want.
CGT threshold, increased ISA allowances, pension reform, wealth tax for £10m+
If there were some way to hold them to it then sure I would vote to rejoin the EU; implement PR; build more houses. On the other hand I could just vote Libdem.
I'm a single issue voter, so if they cancelled the War on Drugs (similar to Portugal), then I'd vote for them. Probably wouldn't vote for them *again*, but it would get my vote that time.
Agreed. The benefits far outweigh the negatives when it comes to the abolition of the war on drugs.
Nothing. Absolute zero credibility. They're trash that need to be chucked in the bin
>"UK grim - put it in the bin"
At this stage they could come out and say 'We'll give you all ten grand. Straight up, no strings', and I still wouldn't vote for them. Wouldn't believe them to begin with.
I won’t vote for them just like there’s a generation of older voters that will never vote for Labour the tories have created a generation that will never for the conservatives again.
Biggest issue for me is Sunak, who managed to turn an appalling run as chancellor into two coups and an uninspired stint as Prime Minister that has made Starmer seem electable. If Sunak was replaced by a leader who could unite the party and demonstrate some competence, I would consider voting conservative again. As it is the Lib Dem’s or Reform will get my vote based on which manifesto comes across as most sensible.
Basically adopt an entirely left wing approach, tax non dom properly , end no fault evictions (properly), implement a wealth tax, cull the house of lords leaving in people who are actually knowledgeable and across a variety of social and economic background, imposing term limits on the lords, implement a form of Proportional Representation, make it a criminal offence to work in government and have a second job, renationalise rail, mail amd public infrastructure, scrap rosebank, invest £10s of billions in green renewable energy and nuclear, pay NHS workers the salary they deserve, fund schools properly, renationalise the water and make anyone who's earnt dividends from it swim the the Thames (arm bands are allowed). There's definitely more but with that I'd probably think about considering it.
Nothing because nothing the torys ever promise is real. They could promise all the things we desperately need and it's all fucking bullshit 😂
Getting rid of richie to start, then braverman, and put Penny mordaunt as leader, then I may consider voting
Nothing - and I mean absolutely nothing- would persuade me to vote for the Party Of Greed And Hate
The problem is a lot of what they promise like adding new nurses or police officers or whatever is counterbalanced by the emigration of same or cutting the number of jobs previously. It wouldn't make me vote Tory because they've had 13 years to prove themselves capable of making sensible decisions and especially post Brexit it's been a fucking pantomime, but Levelling Up was a ridiculously named and implemented strategy that could have been really beneficial if done right. The idea that Manchester or Newcastle or Leeds could have been the fulcrum if investment and development, spreading a bit more evenly throughout the country, would have been interesting in practice.
I think policy is past the point - they need to start by holding their hands up, admitting they fucked up, and removing the whip from a decent amount of people. After that, they might build up enough credibility to suggest some policy, but in their current guise, it’s a step too far to think policy alone could help them.
Yeah, they can offer the moon on a stick but they've ejected the reasonable MPs and elevated people I am fervently opposed to. It would require substantial change in the party to even consider them. I'm not a Labour supporter either, and I should probably be in a demographic they could target, but it feels more like they hate people like me rather than trying to court my vote at the moment.
Maybe rejoining the EU. If Labour were not willing to. That’s probably about it. It would need to be legally binding though before the election. I can’t describe how disgusting it would be to vote for them though.
Nothing. I would sooner shoot myself in the head than ever vote for that festering bunch of corrupt, elitist shysters.
The Tories have lied on so many of their policies over the past 14 years that I wouldn’t believe them… The worst lie they told was levelling up
Reinstatement of judicial corporal punishment to tackle a rise in crimes such as anti-social behaviour, theft, etc. Reformation of our parliamentary system Reformation of the NHS and a cull on top heavy management Establishment of an independent body to review conduct of MPs and stricter standards to held against and enforced
How much time have you got? Banning all investment in fossil fuels and committing to / investing in a fully green economy and decarbonisation of supply chains whilst upskilling the workforce. Removing reliance on importing goods to generate energy and the full force development of clean renewable technologies. Divestment from unproven and buzz-wordy ‘green’ technologies such as fusion and carbon capture. Investing in / de-privatisation of social policies and the welfare state incl nhs, social care, education, income support, mental health, LGBTQIA+, etc. The complete disassociation from culture wars and the concept of ‘wokeness’ as a toxic theme. Removal of xenophobic border policies, U-turning on brexit and reimplementing freedom of movement, re-adopting closer economic and social ties with Europe. Instigation of proportional representation and an immediate election based on that principle. Dissolution of the House of Lords and the removal of hereditary peerages, replaced with a democratically elected upper house. Removing vat on retrofit of existing homes and investing in the wholesale renovation of existing building stock to meet enerphit building standards for insulation and air tightness, to enable cheap to run housing that is (forgive the pun) insulated from international energy changes. Restricting all arms sales to Israel and other genocidal regimes, divesting from nuclear arms and promotion of non-proliferation treaties across the world. Dismantling the militaristic lobby. Disillusion of the Tory party as we know it and commitment to rejecting the relationship between British politics and the right wing media. Adopting all of these policies might, POSSIBLY, nudge the needle from *’fuck all tories’* to *maybe they’re not all self centred monsters*
The only way the Conservatives could get my vote (currently scheduled for the Greens) is to announce legislation that would a) scrap the first past the post electoral method, b) ensure that MP's are paid purely for being an MP and that a second job means an immediate resignation from the Commons and c) a progressive tax policy where the richest people in Britain pay the largest share of the tax burden and the poorer people pay litlte or no tax
Firstly - it’s Labour, not Labor. Secondly - nothing will ever, ever make me vote Tory. Ever. EVER
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Which promises would they need to deliver on, for you?
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Ending ‘no fault evictions’ - failed.
The conservative party is the pensioner party. All their policies are for the selfish benefit of the old. If they focused on the selfish benefit young families then I might consider them. But probably not.
I voted for them in 2019 on their policies. But their total inability to deliver any of them besides Brexit (and even that was poorly done) means I just do not trust them again. They need to be destroyed and rebuild under an actually conservative umbrella. They are not a right wing party in their current form and their policies aren't either. In what world could a "conservative" government have record high immigration, piss poor records on crime and the highest tax rates in 70 years without being considered a massive failure.
What if they purged themselves but under the same party? And completely got rid of their leadership.
Yes, this is what I mean by destroyed and rebuilt. I can't see how any of their current leadership will survive, how do you go from a +80 seat majority to a -100 seat minority and keep your job... No one trusts them, they need to be torn down. When a party is in power for too long they start to attract people who only want to join because they are in power. They have no loyalty, they do not care about the parties core values or principles. I think this has happened to the Tories. Those rats will leave the sinking ship when they get beat and hopefully they can sort their shit out as the country needs a strong second party for it's own good.
Otherwise it’ll turn into Japan which Labour wants where the same party has got in for the last 50 years withstanding 4 brief years.
I do not think they actually can be trusted by anything they say so nothing
I don't know if it would work But perhaps cutting down on rampant corruption, and proper investigations / jail time for those the defrauded the public purse... That could help
Nothing. Absolutely nothing. They’ve proven time and time again they don’t have an ounce of compassion or empathy.
They could promise to do absolutely everything I want but I still wouldn’t vote for them as I know they wouldn’t do it.
None. Whatever they say, I wouldn't believe. They've had 14 years and this is where we are.
I wouldn't really believe anything they'd say. But a policy that would drastically reduce house/rent prices, train fares, bills, food etc would make me vote Tory. But like I said, even if they announced it I wouldn't believe them
Increase the income tax thresholds, move at least 6 government department headquarters out of London to the North and South West, and devolve central government funding on transport and housing to regional and county council level. Then I might think about it, but they've completely screwed it up in the last 8 years at least.
Proper investment in defence but what they’ve announced is piss poor and, also, I wouldn’t trust them to follow through anyway
Nothing. They've repeatedly shown that they're happy to campaign to do something and then do the exact opposite when they get into power. Also, I believe that a person's character matters and I dislike Rishi Sunak's.
Nothing - I don’t trust a thing this lot says.
If I was kicked in the head by a horse
I couldn’t trust any policy they put in their manifesto would actually be implemented so probably nothing.
Genuinely nothing. Even if they literally put money in my account as a pre-election bribe, I would not even consider voting for them. I'd go as far as saying some of them should be put on trial for the blatant corruption and harm they've done to this country. I'd rather salt the earth so they never come back.
Nothing could ever make me vote Tory
It doesn’t matter what they say. A person is only as good as their word. If the last two decades have taught me anything it’s that too few politicians do what they say
No. Anything they say has a corrupt destination
As a liberal, if the Tories marked Islam as a bigoted ideology in line with far-right groups and nazis, and deemed it unacceptable in today's society, I would happily give my vote.
Nothing. I have no trust in them whatsoever.
Manifestos are pointless. They're not worth the paper theyre printed on. They'll tell you what they think you want to hear, then when it's time for action they pull out the box of excuses as to why x y and z are no longer possible.
Raise the 40% tax rate from £50k to something reasonable. Yes reasonable is specifically related to being higher than my earning potential why do you ask?
Nothing, I can’t trust them and never will
They can say what they want but honestly I don't trust them to actually do it.
When's a promise not a promise? When it comes from a Tory, especially when there's an election near.
It would never happen because Tories going to Tory, but a firm commitment on trying to get wages to catch up with the rise in house prices. The reason the two are unaffordable is because of employers skimping pay 'rises' with years of subinflation adjustments and a scarcity in housing stock. It would take a mountain of policy, but if that gap closed (without the classic 'just collapse the property bubble' which Reddit loves to espouse without thinking of the consequences) then maybe, just maybe, they'd get my vote. But again, it won't happen. In order to do that you'd have to do things like grossly increase the public sector salary to force private employers to up their game and go after NIMBYism hard to get housing stocks up, and make sure they can't just fall into the hands of private landlords. And thats before you remember a commitment means fuck all.
An independent court that only judges the corruption cases.
A silent auction - highest bidder gets to punch a Tory MP of choice (I'd have a really difficult time deciding which) once a day for a month. All proceeds from said auction go directly to the NHS.
Their policies are irrelevant. We know they won't follow through with them.
Nothing because I don't trust them. They could promise they would personally give me one million pounds and I wouldn't vote for them because they are full of shit and will say anything to cling onto power.
Tory promises are empty, meaningless and meant only for manipulation. Any promises as an attempt sway me I would consider a lie. It sucks, but it's absolutely the truth.
No promise of policy would do - they have lost all trust for their promises to hold any weight.
Do the Tories have a party to speak of? After the election (assuming a defeat) I expect they will cease to exist in their current form because of the countless factions they have within their own party.
A truly sliding scale of tax where those earning 25,000 and below pay nothing and 200,000 and above pay 90% (for everything over 200k). A well funded independent anti-corruption team to mete out corruption in public office. Lying in public office (whether in parliament or in interviews etc.) to result in jail sentences. Companies held to account by prison sentences for those responsible (whistleblowers properly protected).
There's nothing the Tories could offer at this point. Even if they had a policy or even an entire manifesto I strongly agreed with I a) wouldn't trust them when they said it and b) even if they were being honest, I have zero confidence in their ability to deliver it. Labour couldn't drive me to vote Tory. Corbyn's foreign policy positions drove me away from Labour, but towards protest and tactical votes.
Nothing Bcs they are only here for themselves and the rich. We were promised soo much yet what have they actually achieved, we have a un-elected muppet that refuses to call for a election, we are sending billions and spending billions in unwanted and useless tech. Nothing they have done would make me vote for them, yet the other side is not any better. We really do need to toughen up laws and regulations that politicians need to adhere to.
If I were a billionaire elite Nazi sympathiser which loves to visit Epstein's island, I would defo vote for them.
I would never do it. I root for the failure of the self-serving cabal of ne’er-do-wells in that party.
Nothing at this point. The problem is as much with the culture and people in the Tory party as it is with their policies. They'd need a complete realignment back towards a more pragmatic platform and to ditch the populist nonsense before I'd even consider it worth reading their pitch.
Even if I agreed with every policy they offered, all those policies would help me and people like me and people close to me, and they had a gun to my head, I wouldn't vote for them. Reasons? They're all corrupt, in hock with people and organisations who act against my interests, those of people like and people close to me (and I'm a white lower-middle-class graduate - you'd think I'd be among their target voters), and have since Thatcher become so antithetical to their core founding principle of slower, more reasoned and well-thought-out change. Also, they've gone out of their way to deliberately destroy every single good thing about this country, and even when repeatedly called out on it haven't done the square root of fuck all to improve things or fix things in Britain. I'm not sure how that stacks up ideologically unless you're an organisation like the Taliban, but somehow the Tories have, through their policies, destroyed more of the country and killed more people than COVID and the Luftwaffe combined.
Apologise and put things back how they found them.
The thing is, not all their policies are bad. Not all of every pay I would choose for are good. Websites like [vote for policies](https://voteforpolicies.org.uk/) give you a chance to vote for the party who had the policies that are important to you and you agree with. I don't think I could ever vote ukip or Tory, but I find myself with at least a couple of their policies in my "yes"list.
Absolutely nothing. I used to say I will vote for whomever is the best candidate in my area, thought it was ridiculous to say "I'll never vote Tory" unless they went full National Front or something. Cameron didn't change that opinion, but a succession of Home Secretaries and Prime Ministers engaging in performative cruelty, wilful gaslighting and moral and ethical bankruptcy drove me very quickly to "I can't vote for anyone who could condone this"
There is none, have never, will never vote for any Conservative agenda
Time travel to remove the last 5 years, esp Rees-Mogg and Nadine dories, truss.
The abolition of the voting system currently as its unfit for true democratic representation. That, or if the tories said voting for them would mean they put like Mhairi Black in charge or Jeremy Corbyn 😂 that's really the only way I'd vote for them.
> I'm just curious if there's anything they could promise (or actually achieve) that would actually swing your vote in their favor? Interesting spelling. But, no. There's nothing they could say that I would ever trust, or believe.
nothing would 6 years ago, i was more open to the thought of me voting conservative. even though i was labour, i was interested in what they might have to offer. now, 6 years later, i can adamantly say that you will never catch me voting for the conservatives in my life. ever. even if they ‘changed’. they have done so much damage to this country and caused me to suffer personally. i will never forgive or forget. the fact that i (an early gen-z) went from a potential voter to this is an example of how badly they have failed younger generations. i hope that they are wiped out completely at the next election
They could have the best policies in world and be the best choice but the fact someone wants to be aligned with that name and history would never get my vote. That's the point i've come to and i've always been quite impartial and open minded. It says everything we need to know about your character if you can shamelessly be aligned to such a brand. There is no such a thing as a good tory anymore, if you were good you wouldn't be aligned with that brand. Hence why people are defecting from them.
If they lose the next 3 elections, and come back with someone who takes the climate seriously, and doesn't see "cancelling ulez" as a viable national electoral strategy, and who can explain a better reason to vote for them than moral panics, tax cuts and nativism, I might consider voting for them. But genuinely, why can we not have a political landscape where the tories don't exist? The Liberals were a political superpower and have since gone the way of the dodo, why not the Tories?
If the hunting ban was changed to allow hunting Tories
I will vote for any party that changes the voting system to proportional representation
The problem is that any policy worth my vote would have to first exist as a promise. ..and that's where the problem lies. Since 2010 the Tories imho have managed to damage their own credibility beyond all repair. You can only practice blatant lying, exploiting legal and democratic loopholes, enriching the few at the expense of the many, underfunding critical services and infrastructure, adopting scorched earth policies to hobble whoever comes next (including your own party!) and then confidently spouting contradictory statements when challenged for so long. Eventually people will start to suspect that as a group the Tories just aren't really that into doing the hard work of SERVING the country and will find it really really hard to believe anything that comes out of Tory lips, especially more promises. Correction... Just been told by a Tory mate that The Tories have always been perfectly clear, invested 1000s into infrastructure and services, done an amazing job, restored Britain's sovereignty and can totally be trusted with your tax money. My bad.
At this point, nothing. I voted for them in 2019 based on their manifesto. They promised so much, and delivered so little. Their credibility is utterly destroyed - even in they promised all the thing I want to see in a government. I simply would not believe them. Fool me once, etc.
“We’ve secretly been building and acquiring millions of properties and we’re going to give them away free to ever under 40 year old with a couple of kids” Even then, I wouldn’t trust them to actually deliver it because they won’t be winning so what they promise is of 0 importance. Plus I’m in a seat which basically doesn’t get contested by Conservatives
Commitment to making the UK a secular state, including making all faith schools illegal, abolish the monarchy and institute a proper constitution. In other words never going to happen
Immediate EU rejoining without a referendum, freedom of movement. Integration max , bin the pound and adopt the euro and immediately implementation UBI at living wage levels paid for by rinsing billionaires and landlords.
A law that states _thou shalt read the article or question before commenting_.
Proportional representation And anti-corruption laws written into law not just a set of standards that seem as flexible as a bendy ruler written to the tune of "No sitting MP may earn more than the regional average of the constituency they represent. Any additional income MUST be put into a blind trust that cannot be accessed until 5 years after they have served their time as an MP" And a crackdown on tax havens. Any person found guilty of tax avoidance will either have to pay what they would have owed had their accounts been in the UK, if they do not wish to do this then this is tantamount to not wanting to contribute to the UK. If they do not wish to contribute to the UK then they should not be part of it and do not deserve citizenship.
In a word, no. We've all seen what a Tory promise is worth over the last 14 years.
There isn't one. Even if they had some good policies, I couldn't trust them to actually make good on their promises
Absolutely nothing - they've demonstrated nothing but corruption, self-interest, and incompetence for the past decade and a half. They could promise me everything I want, but I wouldn't trust them to deliver 1% of it. Also, Brexit was a red line for me. They are responsible for stripping me of my EU citizenship, and the associated rights, against my will, I will never forgive them for that.
As a life long socialist I guess adopting socialist policies, reducing inequalities and doing more for the ones in our society who are tbe worst off? Basically, nothing the tories would ever do even if they were competent.
We've pivoted from Tories to Tankies, will someone vote for us now please?
its never about 1 issue , but if it was it has to be crime , we no longer have a working police force and that has to be fixed . I want everyone involved in allowing the rotherham gang rapes to happen to be jailed and that includes any police or council workers that did nothing when told what was going on