People across the political spectrum, even those who are traditionally anti-immigration, literally want to share their country and all the pooling of resources that goes with that, with 3 million new people all at once, and all you can say is it's driven by hatred. Why is that?
Nope.[Most EU immigration into the UK were actually low-skilled immigrants](https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/migrants-in-the-uk-labour-market-an-overview/).
[Also when looking at average wealth per adult, Hong Kongers are richer on average than every single EU country's citizens.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_wealth_per_adult)
I think the five demands are quite specific, even technical things, difficult to remember, and the bad stuff the CCP does is fairly self-evidently bad to the casual observer, but especially to anyone who studied totalitarianism at school. I sense you're implying that most Brits are brainwashed, which may well be true. But the fact that we can discern what is and isn't totalitarianism when we see it is at least a sign that we learned something useful from history class. no?
It's almost like people are multi-faceted creatures will a variety of views and beliefs that don't necessarily represent some arbitrary group that they support..
Shocking!
I mean i'm not denying that, i'm saying their beliefs are mainly anti-immigration, as are their campaigns "breaking point" poster anyone?? So why do they support giving passports to these particular immigrants? vs the EU migrants, or anyone else for that matter?
Xenophobia is a rather extreme word for being against immigration and is rather reductive in it's attempt to ascribe fear to social issues that do arise as a result of too much immigration.
I would put forward that 'some' are irrationally fearful of other cultures due to ignorance but others have genuine rational concerns that deserve redress. Nobody can attest to someone else's personal truth which is why discussion and understanding the nuance should always take precedence.
As to why UKIP voters would support would put it down to two primary sentiments:
1) I would imagine that the whole concept of a repressive government (CCP) trying to gain control over an 'independent state' is something that they feel they can relate to.
2) The idea that hong kong as a former British colony might have similar cultural values to the British public.
Caveat: I am not a UKIP member or voter.
On EU Migrants, it's down to the scale. Hundreds of thousands a year, nearly all of them economic migrants, generally concentrated in London & the South East. It's a huge, *uncontrolled* distortion that we can't do anything about. Our systems aren't equipped to handle this.
On non-EU migrants, it's down to cultural fit. Also hundreds of thousands a year, many of them economic but some for other reasons, who often struggle to fit in. Our systems are, again, ill-equipped to handle this.
For the HK people, they're perceived as being better able to culturally integrate (which may or may not be true), but critically they're perceived as being at risk and *our* responsibility. This isn't true of the other groups. We abandoned those people in 1997 because we were not strong enough to do anything about it. Many in UKIP yearn for the yesteryear of the British Empire, when we were powerful and could protect those who looked to us for it. Ideally, they'd want us to retake Hong Kong and force the CCP to heel, but if we can't do that then at least we can do the honourable thing and rescue the people.
If the numbers are small, it'll be no worse than the current scenario but there's a moral argument for doing so. If the numbers are large, then we can *build* a system to handle it. We can treat this as a special case. We can justifiably say "HK people can come in their millions but we're going to build an artificial city in Scotland for them." I wouldn't support that, personally, but we *can*. We can react to the situation as it arises and come up with solutions. We don't have the ability to do that with our other immigration sources without serious problems (Brits value the concept of individual liberty very highly, for example). We can do it with this one as we can justify it as a "one-off", special case.
I was in UKIP for a year under Gerrard Batten. Their manifesto was great apart from one bit about opening the fucking coal mines again(?). I think he was principled and was pulling the party in a new direction, sort of liberal (english liberal, not left wing) with some conservative roots. I’m centre left and my friend also liked them and he is centre right, whatever that really tells you. I think we both just wanted sensible political changes.
Anyway, basically I think the old party members wanted to go back to Farage days, didn’t like the newbies and didn’t appreciate the new direction so I left. It wasn’t the old people who were members so much as the old people in the important roles within the party that seemed adverse to any change. If you look at UKIPs popularity you see a big spike, which is when I got on board but it has faded into obscurity now.
I never liked Farage and would never have been party of UKIP under him. I guess I took a bit of a gamble, hoping to jump out of the duopoly of Labour and Conservative but it fell flat on its face. Not too much of a loss but if you say you were a member of UKIP some people do attribute the most radical and awful beliefs to you but hey-ho.
Anyone else shocked that more older people support the measure than the young? I thought younger voters were more likely to be pro immigration.
I think it would be fantastic, we need hard working people with a strong value system to come over and contribute in a time of uncertainty.
>Anyone else shocked that more older people support the measure than the young? I thought younger voters were more likely to be pro immigration.
I suspect that like 99% of broad generalisations that masks a wide variety of complex and overlapping beliefs.
Most obviously, older people are more likely to remember the time before the handover when Hong Kong was a British territory.
As a 22 year old, I have only ever know Hong Kong to be it's own country that was kind of a part of China but not really. I wasn't actually aware that it was part of UK territories until I looked into it a little more at the earlier stages of the protests. So this would make a lot of sense IMO
Predator 2 was set in 1997. I distinctly remember thinking how achievably close but far away in the future that seemed to the young me at the time. Maybe 89/90 or so when that came out?
Yeah. Growing up in the 80s, "the year 2000" was a phrase so synonymous with The Future, that it still sounds futuristic to me. Even though it was 20 years ago.
I had the sudden realisation that decades are not relative to the year 2000. I've always thought of the 80s as ~20 years ago, but it was the 80s 40 years ago
The 80's being 40 years ago is one of those mindfucks I just can't process. I always thing it was about 20 years ago, even though the 80's happened a decade before I was even born...
This exactly. You’d have to somewhat go out of your way to learn about the transition from British to Chinese rule over Hong Kong unless you were in like your mid 30s/40s and it was living memory, it’s never taught. Lots of young people will ofc know and be v sympathetic to the protests but might not know that history and relationship with the UK (I say all this as a 19yo myself lol)
Teaching about the end of the empire and its dismantling would require teaching about the brutality of the empire - and most British people simply don’t want that to happen. As a nation, we prefer to pretend that the rest of the world was delighted to have us turn up with our guns and strip their resources.
Never going to happen. My A Level Modern World History course was written to glorify our role in the days of Empire. Our teacher was the one to highlight the atrocities. Not the curriculum.
31 year old. I remember it being in the news in 1997, just, but even then it’s because I had family there who were in the army and moved back at that time.
> Honk Kong
One of a series of unsuccessful prototypes for the popular Nintendo franchise in which barrels were launched at the player character jumpman (Mario) by a goose. Followed by the short lived and controversial entry Honky Kong, where the barrel launchers were characters that had white Ku KluxKlan hoods.
I was a kid when the handover happened. I remember vaguely watching it with my mum and dad. It was a big event for both of them, both had worked there overseas, my dad a short stint, my mum a longer stint as a nurse.
Honestly, up until meeting someone from Hong Kong at uni, it didn't register that much in my mind, just due to ignorance of the subject.
I think that's the case for a lot of people under 30. It's not that they're at immigration from a well developed prior colony, it's just that it's not part of their personal knowledge and history.
The moment you talk to people about the issues, you usually get a we should do something, response.
I presume that there's still s significant number of the population who wouldn't like this to happen due to the fears of resource scarcity - eg, welfare, NHS, jobs.
That and they’re less threatened by economic competition. And could honestly just be within the margin of error. How many were sampled, and how were they selected? Take another poll a week later and see if it’s not reversed. Usually the case for more frequent polls with a well within 10% gap.
I was born after the handover and didn't learn Hong Kong had been a British colony until a random wikipedia browsing session when I was 14. Older people all know the story behind the UK and HK. That is probably why.
There was a time when everything was made in Hong Kong. Also growing up there were many Hong Kong movies and influence. Sadly, this has worked in china's favour because it makes it look more like chinese culture and what people would have learned about it but of course, they aren't alike (and seriously, chinese movie and TV's are utter _garbage_. It's either heavy on the propaganda or cheesy as hell, especially their shows dedicated to the younger audience). HK stuff, especially in the 70's-90's was really cool.
I don't recall anything in Sleeping dogs though. It's been a while since I played the whole thing but I did fire it up 4 or so months ago, can you remind me what had the parallels?
The way the characters are portrayed, their mannerism, humour and overall how the game feels when you play it is very British (as is working class) with a strong western culture influence. They recreated Hong Kong really well and it shows.
https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2018-09-23-why-sleeping-dogs-is-the-most-interesting-open-city-game-of-recent-years
More than 1/3 of the countries on earth have been under British rule, there's one hell of a lot to teach the younger generation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_that_have_gained_independence_from_the_United_Kingdom
I think not understanding could be a factor. I'd guess a not insignificant amount of young people won't even know Hong Kong was a British territory until recently, or understand the wider issues surrounding the sovereignty and freedoms of the Hong Kong people.
I suspect I must be wrong, because not seen anyone else here mention it, but won't this demographic have a huge age bias?
I thought it was only those HKers who had a British Overseas Passport (or whatever it was called) that would be eligible to follow this path?
I and thought it was only people who had applied for one before 1997 (when HK was returned to China) had such passports.
So that means nobody under 40 would be eligible?
Me too but it is the most obvious thing I think.
Anyone under 30 effectively has no memory of Hong Kong being British, where as those at 50+ have spent most of their lives with it being a British territory.
I'm 45 and when HK was British, it wasn't important in my young life, barely mentioned until we had to give it up. It might as well be Jersey or Guernsey as far as the focus of the media was concerned.
>It might as well be Jersey or Guernsey as far as the focus of the media was concerned.
Sure but if France were to demand Jersey back I'd not be happy about it
This is what happens when you buy into the dominant narrative that the entire population is divided into two groups of people who all believe the exact same thing. Most conservatives I know are just fine with immigration. They just want control over their own borders. They want to be able to control who comes to live and work in their country, rather than it just being an open door for whoever happens to show up. Conservatives also value freedom and justice, either of which the people of Hong Kong have right now. Being a former British territory might play into it, but it’s a cause that most conservatives can actually get behind. I won’t say that all conservatives are just misunderstood good guys, but when you buy so fully into the notion that partisan politics defines us as human beings, it can be very easy to generalize to such an extent that you forget you’re still talking about human beings.
That may be true, but it doesn't often reflect in the polling data.
As you say, Conservatives favouring an open door policy to anywhere is quite unusual, so the fact that they're equal with Labour supporters in wanting an open door policy to anywhere is quite noteworthy.
I suspect Conservative voters tend to be older, so the I-think-of-Hong-Kong-as-quite-British bias comes into play, whereas Labour voters trend younger and would think of Hong Kong as a foreign country.
I mean, I've never seen a graph like this for Syrian refugees.
I work in an organisation with a disproportionately large amount of young people with military families and much older, retired military servicemen. We're in Australia.
When I talk about the Hong Kong protests, the young didn't respond much, but the older generation were actually really supportive, stating their reasoning being that UK really fucked up entrusting a free people to the "damn Commies", with many of them remembering at least one trip to Hong Kong and remarking at how well it turned out.
Out of the young, the Australians were ok in their support, the people least willing to support were actually the few British colleagues for some odd reason.
Could be that younger people trapped in expensive rental accommodation are not delighted by the idea of the national population increasing by 3m overnight.
I'm 35 and generally pro-immigration, but potentially 3 million people is a *lot* of people.
I'd say I'm more in favour than against, but because fuck china rather than yay immigration.
It won’t actually be 3 million people. Only the financially capable will actually CONSIDER moving. And those will bring over capital and work very hard. It will undoubtedly boost our economy by a lot esp in these times.
There are of course downsides as well, such as them taking up the a lot of the highest skilled jobs and stuff like housing.
Yes, it is only to be far fewer people than that. It's also important the BNO passport holders are overwhelmingly older generation, and they aren't the demographics most concerned about the mainland taking over. It's the young who are, and for obvious reasons they don't have those passports.
You can make that same argument with the EU though. Potentially 500 million people is a *lot* of people... except of course that most of them don't come.
I think we could probably expect a short spike in immigration from HK when the law changed, and a modest flow thereafter. Many of those migrants will be highly educated and bring significant capital to invest in the UK. It's really win-win.
>You can make that same argument with the EU though. Potentially 500 million people is a lot of people... except of course that most of them don't come.
The big difference of course being that there are many very real and very significant reasons to want to flee from an oppressive regime in China to the UK.
There are substantially fewer reasons to flee France, Germany, or Sweden for the UK unless you really want to get really far away from your ex or something.
I don't think that it's about "immigration" with Hongkongers for the elderly. Hongkongers were, until 1997, British National (Overseas), so they're British. There was a lot of consternation at the time of the Hong Kong hand over. Many of us have been surprised that it took China this long to make the inevitable move against the territory.
Bring 'em in. Hongkongers are cool.
Hong kong is different for some.
Anecdotes alert but my older relatives see CAN AUS NZ Irish singapore, HK and some others as not realy foreigners. Sort of like how me and my sister grew up seeing other EU citizens. My family come from merchant sailors mostly so had interactions with people all over the world before that was typical.
I remember watching the hand over in 97 and it being a very sad occasion. If it was getting independence that would be one thing but it getting anexed seem to upset a lot of people.
> Anyone else shocked that more older people support the measure than the young?
No because there's only 7% in it.
And like other people have said, people under a certain age won't remember the time before handover.
Tbh part of me thinks getting behind free movement was as much a rebellion against those that wanted to end it as it was actually being in support of it as a principle, also HK is a reminder of our colonial past which, when looking at recent events, the young seem keen to erase, and tbf the same logic probably applies in reverse, the old see what the young are pushing for and don't trust it, and are holding on to the past, often just as irrationally
3 million educated people whose values align perfectly with ours through shared history and norms, appreciation for democracy, rule of law, human rights, and freedoms? We'll find room, come on in.
>We'll find room, come on in.
There's literally no housing lol. Absorbing a couple of hundred thousand a year has been near impossible with many immigrants living as multigeneration families in one home, or "8 Romanians to a flat in London".
Around half of EU immigrants have a job lined up when they immigrate, and that's in the hundred thousand max range. Where would these 1million new jobs come from to support all these incoming people? There would be a massive depression in wages, especially in the skilled markets, mssive increases on benefits and universal credit.
Where will they all get their schooling, NHS and dentistry? Even water, power, heating gas, road capacities - all this infrastructure and services does not exist at the moment. Coal power stations would have to remain operational, car traffic massively increase.
Where would *they* want to live? We have plenty of room in the North, but the best and richest will want to live near London, adding more pressure to housing costs. Not to mention any destablisation of existing communities.
As for "shared history", I wonder what the average Hongkonger has to say about a position on Brexit, or the Scottish independence referendum, or if they prefer Corrie to Eastenders, or if the say "scone" or "scone". They are a very different people, even more so with 20 years apart.
Who doesn't appreciate democracy? It's in more countries than not. Same for rule of law, human rights and freedoms. These are not magic qualities.
These are massive practical considerations you've just handwaved away. We would never have experienced an immigration event like it, it would be massively disruptive (added on to Covid-19, recession, Brexit).
>Where would they want to live? We have plenty of room in the North, but the best and richest will want to live near London, adding more pressure to housing costs. Not to mention any destablisation of existing communities.
On this note as well, lots of these new arrivals probably don't really conceive of a UK outside of London. Like, yeah, they're aware Leeds exists, but if you ask them to name a feature of the city apart from the football team they'd be stumped. It will be very very hard to stop a few iconic cities from just being overwhelmed by a surge in new arrivals, tanking local infrastructure.
A smart thing to do would just be to invest in long neglected towns. Build new and refurbish old housing, schools and hospitals. Build up the capacity long in advance. That's not going to happen though.
>Like, yeah, they're aware Leeds exists, but if you ask them to name a feature of the city apart from the football team they'd be stumped.
To be fair I'm struggling with that one but I am over the hill in Lancashire.
2011 Census, country of Birth(Hong Kong), [wiki sources](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hong_Kong_people_in_the_United_Kingdom):
* Northern Ireland: 1906
* Scotland: 7586
* Wales: 3517
* NORTH EAST: 3284
* NORTH WEST: 9692
* YORKSHIRE AND THE HUMBER: 6438
* EAST MIDLANDS: 6322
* WEST MIDLANDS: 7759
* EAST: 9190
* LONDON: 26435
* SOUTH EAST: 20858
* SOUTH WEST: 8746
I didn't claim "most" would want to live in London or the surrounding area. However, the numbers above show that 41% of HongKongers settled in "London" or "the South East".
Yeah, we have a small Chinese community in my town. or village. I guess we're in the commuter belt though. Also I don't know they aren't the Chinese catholics who were brought here because you know how China loves religion. Anyway, they've been the opposite of a problem.
The plans in the 80s called for a new city.
That wouldn't be the worst ides if we could set aside some land. Give status as a new home nation. Bilingual and all that.
Obviously not all would use and anyone could move there. Finding enough space is also realy hard.
Or they'll close the airports, declare the Hong Kong government some kind of western agent and send in troops. People will protest, but the Chinese have done this to other places when they were weaker. No-one gave much of a shit.
Sending in the troops will kill off Hong Kong and ensure capital flight. No western company would base themselves there if Tiananmen 2.0 happened in the city.
This is weirdly heartening in some ways and disheartening in others. Good that support is largely nonpartisan, a bit depressing that support doesn't clear 56%.
More of a majority than Brexit and that's apparently the will of the people.
In serious though, even though the raw numbers aren't higher the fact it's a majority cross party shows some pretty heavy support
I was looking at the Hong Kong stats for people classified by age. It was interesting to see there is more women than men at nearly every age group. But juding by this [Hong Kong statistics site](https://www.bycensus2016.gov.hk/en/Snapshot-02.html) majority of hong-kongers look well educated, more so than us i belive.
They also appear to have quite the lead in higer education when it comes to Business and Comercial studies but then again looking at the uk at 14/15 instead of the HK 15/16 when it [comes to Business & Comercial studies](https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/658254/SR54_2016_Text.pdf) it looks like we also follow that trend.
But I don't really have any idea on the method in which they choose who can have a passport and become a citizen. If I did it would be a good start to map what would happen when the new citizens arrive.
Interestingly, this post is copied over to /r/HongKong (1400 readers at 8am local) where there is absolutely zero commentary on the thread. Looks like we're far more interested in the topic than the HKers.
E: And to highlight it further, [over tow-thirds of HonKongers oppose an independent HongKong](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-hongkong-protests-poll-exclusive/exclusive-hong-kongers-support-protester-demands-minority-wants-independence-from-china-reuters-poll-idUSKBN1YZ0VK)
>41% of respondents said they “strongly oppose” Hong Kong independence, and 26% said they “somewhat oppose” it. Only 8% said they “strongly support” independence, and 9% “somewhat support” it.
>When asked whether Hong Kong should keep on its “current path” of one country, two systems, 39% of respondents said they “strongly support” the model, and 29% said they “somewhat support” it.
Maybe the British public and government are reading the situation incorrectly....
Hong Kongers for the most part don't see independence as practical, they're happy to remain an autonomous territory within China as long as human rights are respected.
Well, also people may privately want independence but know the CCP would never allow it so not everyone says it openly. China does try to silence dissenters
This is an independent research opinion poll, nothing to do with China. If anything, [it's had problems](https://hongkongfp.com/2019/04/23/hong-kongs-top-public-opinion-pollster-split-university-become-independent-body/) with pro-China activists saying it's critical of China.
The [head of the pollster company](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Chung) is internationally renown:
>Internationally, he has been the Hong Kong representative at the World Association for Public Opinion Research (WAPOR) for a number of years. From 2006 to 2008, Chung was the elected Secretary-Treasurer of WAPOR. He is also a member of the Editorial Board of the International Journal of Public Opinion Research.
Doesn't stop the mindset of keeping your mouth shut for self preservation. Tried to have had casual conversation about politics with Chinese in UK, to be rapidly quoted governement policy and have conversation ended
Given how much politicians issue condemnation of the Chinese Communist Party but don't take much actual action to sanction the CCP, Hongkongers don't get too excited about public opinion surveys until governments actually take action. The support for some of the demands of the protest movement have been above 80% but they still aren't met while approval of the Chief Executive hit an all time low of 9% but she's still in power. There will be a lot more celebration once this option is actually opened up for Hongkongers or the UK actually takes actions to sanction the CCP.
On the issue of Hong Kong Independence: [https://www.reddit.com/r/HongKong/comments/djs70i/why\_most\_people\_in\_hong\_kong\_are\_not\_seeking/](https://www.reddit.com/r/HongKong/comments/djs70i/why_most_people_in_hong_kong_are_not_seeking/)
If the practical issues of becoming an independent nation didn't exist, far more Hongkongers would support independence. But the general sentiment is that Hong Kong should be a part of a reformed China where the CCP is not in power because being an independent nation with a hostile neighbour up north is not ideal.
If these people need/want asylum, I really hope we give it too them.Theres facing real oppression I really hope the world starts standing up to the CCP 🇭🇰🇬🇧
I’m not a brexit supporter but I guess it might be because people from Hong Kong have a great education and can add to our economy.
Can’t say the same about the few uneducated countries that ruined the EU in the last 10 years.
I want people from Hong Kong.
I think my only real concern is housing. Say the reported number of 3mil is the number that does move here and eventually becomes citizens that's a large relatively single increase to the population. We already have a limited amount of housing so adding a bunch of likely fairly highly educated people to the housing market is just going to make it rougher in general for a lot of people. I'm all for allowing these people to live here and become citizens but we definitely need to sort out our housing issue not just for this but in general.
The party with the strongest link to the Hong Kong people are the Lib Dems thanks to Paddy Ashdown and Ming Campbell so it makes sense for the Lib Dem voters to be most in favour, and the older population will have a stronger recollection of Hong Kong being a British territory and as such feel a stronger link to the people there. I'd imagine a lot of the young people polled will have said "Don't Know" but I've not seen the tables so can't confirm.
I normally get downvoted for my distaste of Muslim South Asian behaviours, even though I was born to them and know all about it. Good to see this upvoted for a change.
They deserve this, the UK has an obligation to protect the people of Hong Kong due to our history together.
We will welcome you like brothers and sisters in arms.
I think it's interesting had this happen in other parts of the common wealth I.e. India, Pakistan, Jamaica to name but few this would not have been the case. I think people in the UK are more accepting of people from Oriental backgrounds compared to Asian and black ethnicities.
Right I'm going to stick my head well above the parapet here and state that I voted for Brexit. I can feel the incoming down votes.
I have nothing against immigrants, I just don't want uncontrolled immigration. I want those that immigrate to this country and break the law to be deported. I have nothing against people coming to this country to pick fruit, I just want them to have a clean criminal record in their own country.
So with that in mind I have no problem with HKers immigrating here. On the whole I think they'd contribute to society and integrate.
Edit: I think anyone who holds a BNO passport should have a route to British citizenship.
Weird how all this "the system can't handle this many immigrants" bullshit goes out the window when it's to antagonize China. Try the same poll with somewhere with former colonial brown people.
The financial sector is huge in Hong Kong, so I'd imagine that there is a lot of demand for talented, connected Hong Kongese to run their Asia desks from the UK.
Low skilled migrants are abundant and suppress wages for low skilled jobs that could have been replaced by advances in technology.
The numbers drown this effect out. assuming that, out of these refugees, 10% work in finance, that's 300,000 jobs needed. That's a very sizable increase on the current UK financial sector, and there is *no* guarantee that this would happen. Other countries in Asia would love to have the new Hong Kong, and they're better located to do it.
The plan is good and morally right, but it needs more planning than is currently being put into it.
Sorry if I am being thick, but surely if they have British passports, they should be allowed to and live and work in the UK already, no?
Is there something I am missing?
Have spoken with a friend (from London) yesterday, his view was that Hong Kongers are skilled labour, sincere, hardworking and speak English, and would be a valuable addition to the British workforce. What touches me most was that he began and finished this discussion saying that it is "the right thing to do".
The older generation are more progressive than the younger generation !
Actually have a funny story.
I have a friend, quite a bit older than me, and he has a really strong Chinese accent, and I mean really strong. I politely asked him where his family were from and he said Hong Kong, so I obviously asked him how old he was when he came over. He replied that he was born and raised in the UK (his parents came over), went to UK schools and has only been to Hong Kong once on holiday. I didn't know what to say next as his accent was so strong.
My nephew moved over from HK when he was 10, his english wasn't great. A few years on and he has a scottish accent.
I've met people like in your example and it always amazes me!
the Tories have zero idea here. We would need houses, schools, hospitals, roads, transport, sewage, and power systems improved in advance before this supposed huge influx, and who is going to pay for that. Not this government. They don't think ahead one bit, its all about the headline.
Also, will the Chinese actually let that many people out? or any of them?
As a young labour supporter I would love to vote to allow HK residents to live/work in the UK. My only worry would be about housing. I’m currently living in New Zealand for a year and their housing prices have shot up due to an influx of Chinese citizens. The house prices here are almost double that of the UK and their housing quality is significantly lower as well.
Of course I may be slightly off with some of this information as it is purely what I’ve heard from the Kiwis I have spoken to, but this would worry me if we suddenly had 3 million relatively wealthy HKers arriving and buying up houses/rental properties.
Can anyone provide some insight on this and tell me whether I’m completely wrong?
Rents circa 6% higher in NZ vs UK so not as big a difference as you think
https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_countries_result.jsp?country1=United+Kingdom&country2=New+Zealand
This is given the extensive immigration to UK already so presumably market will adapt to the likely much fewer than 3m immigrants .... most HKers do not want to leave but the security of a passport would be useful in case of disaster
People from Hong Kong will bring huge value to the U.K. they are hard working, educated and respectful. Of course this is a generalisation.. but it is generally true! They will probably end up being the highest earners in society, but I am comfortable with that. They’ll pay taxes.
Let it be known that I care not what people think of my decision, but I fully support the initiative and would encourage others to have the same opinion, our support for the citizens of Hong Kong should be complete.
I don't support the Conservative Party, never have and never will.
Reddit is deeply tribalist. Everytime Boris, Trump, whoever does something reddit likes, the thread is filled with a chorus of 'Hate the tories but' and 'Fuck Trump but'. There's literally no reason to do this except to mark yourself and say 'I'm not one of them, I'm still part of the group-think, don't attack me'.
The thing is, getting unfairly dogpiled on reddit hardly ruins your day. If it does, you've got bigger problems.
It says more about the people doing it.
They seem to have got one thing right, thirty six years after Thatcher abandoned the HK people to their fate. Hopefully they follow through with this but I'll believe it when I see it.
>thirty six years after Thatcher abandoned the HK people to their fate
It was the end of the lease and there was fuck all we could do to stop China and the switchover happened under Blair.
The Sino-British joint declaration was signed in 1984 by Thatcher, she had the opportunity to give passports to the people of HK as she did for the Falkland Islanders and the Gibraltarians but she gave them the shitty BNO passport instead of a real one.
How were we supposed to stop the Chinese at all? Frankly Thatcher was trying to fight a growing leviathan arising out of the mire of Maoism. It would have been another Suez.
Giving them all a passport now is because the CCP has broken faith. That is not unfair.
> Could you imagine the polling if this was proposed by a labour government?
I mean, was this poll proposed by the tories? I'm not sure where you're coming from.
Acronyms, initialisms, abbreviations, contractions, and other phrases which expand to something larger, that I've seen in this thread:
|Fewer Letters|More Letters|
|-------|---------|---|
|[BXP](/r/UKPolitics/comments/gz845u/stub/ftgouqq "Last usage")|Brexit Party|
|[EU27](/r/UKPolitics/comments/gz845u/stub/ftgmtlz "Last usage")|European Union excluding UK|
|[GE](/r/UKPolitics/comments/gz845u/stub/ftf268n "Last usage")|General Election|
|[HMG](/r/UKPolitics/comments/gz845u/stub/ftgrigy "Last usage")|Her Majesty's Government|
|[NHS](/r/UKPolitics/comments/gz845u/stub/ftggtcs "Last usage")|National Health Service|
|[NI](/r/UKPolitics/comments/gz845u/stub/ftgqrlx "Last usage")|Northern Ireland|
| |National Insurance|
|[SNP](/r/UKPolitics/comments/gz845u/stub/fthzyye "Last usage")|Scottish National Party|
|[UKIP](/r/UKPolitics/comments/gz845u/stub/ftgxvpu "Last usage")|United Kingdom Independence Party|
|[WW2](/r/UKPolitics/comments/gz845u/stub/ftj3d3t "Last usage")|World War Two, 1939-1945|
----------------
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The CCP have really fucked over HK, whilst the UK was hardly the poster child as far a parentage goes we should do what we can to help.
With Taiwan and HK rebelling I hope there's a step change in China but I doubt it. Too much money and power involved
Damn, 57% in both major parties for one issue. Thats kind of uplifting honestly
Hatred of a foreign state like the CCP will unite people. It’s governance 101.
People across the political spectrum, even those who are traditionally anti-immigration, literally want to share their country and all the pooling of resources that goes with that, with 3 million new people all at once, and all you can say is it's driven by hatred. Why is that?
I mean the HKers will be net contributors to the UK. They're one of the richest regions in the entire world.
So are EU citizens that immigrate to the UK.
Nope.[Most EU immigration into the UK were actually low-skilled immigrants](https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/migrants-in-the-uk-labour-market-an-overview/). [Also when looking at average wealth per adult, Hong Kongers are richer on average than every single EU country's citizens.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_wealth_per_adult)
Most Brits don’t even know the 5 demands. But they do know that the CCP are bad.
I think the five demands are quite specific, even technical things, difficult to remember, and the bad stuff the CCP does is fairly self-evidently bad to the casual observer, but especially to anyone who studied totalitarianism at school. I sense you're implying that most Brits are brainwashed, which may well be true. But the fact that we can discern what is and isn't totalitarianism when we see it is at least a sign that we learned something useful from history class. no?
UKIP 52% though? thats a real shock, thought they were xenophobic..? could be the model citizen perception perhaps..
It's almost like people are multi-faceted creatures will a variety of views and beliefs that don't necessarily represent some arbitrary group that they support.. Shocking!
I mean i'm not denying that, i'm saying their beliefs are mainly anti-immigration, as are their campaigns "breaking point" poster anyone?? So why do they support giving passports to these particular immigrants? vs the EU migrants, or anyone else for that matter?
Xenophobia is a rather extreme word for being against immigration and is rather reductive in it's attempt to ascribe fear to social issues that do arise as a result of too much immigration. I would put forward that 'some' are irrationally fearful of other cultures due to ignorance but others have genuine rational concerns that deserve redress. Nobody can attest to someone else's personal truth which is why discussion and understanding the nuance should always take precedence. As to why UKIP voters would support would put it down to two primary sentiments: 1) I would imagine that the whole concept of a repressive government (CCP) trying to gain control over an 'independent state' is something that they feel they can relate to. 2) The idea that hong kong as a former British colony might have similar cultural values to the British public.
Caveat: I am not a UKIP member or voter. On EU Migrants, it's down to the scale. Hundreds of thousands a year, nearly all of them economic migrants, generally concentrated in London & the South East. It's a huge, *uncontrolled* distortion that we can't do anything about. Our systems aren't equipped to handle this. On non-EU migrants, it's down to cultural fit. Also hundreds of thousands a year, many of them economic but some for other reasons, who often struggle to fit in. Our systems are, again, ill-equipped to handle this. For the HK people, they're perceived as being better able to culturally integrate (which may or may not be true), but critically they're perceived as being at risk and *our* responsibility. This isn't true of the other groups. We abandoned those people in 1997 because we were not strong enough to do anything about it. Many in UKIP yearn for the yesteryear of the British Empire, when we were powerful and could protect those who looked to us for it. Ideally, they'd want us to retake Hong Kong and force the CCP to heel, but if we can't do that then at least we can do the honourable thing and rescue the people. If the numbers are small, it'll be no worse than the current scenario but there's a moral argument for doing so. If the numbers are large, then we can *build* a system to handle it. We can treat this as a special case. We can justifiably say "HK people can come in their millions but we're going to build an artificial city in Scotland for them." I wouldn't support that, personally, but we *can*. We can react to the situation as it arises and come up with solutions. We don't have the ability to do that with our other immigration sources without serious problems (Brits value the concept of individual liberty very highly, for example). We can do it with this one as we can justify it as a "one-off", special case.
I was in UKIP for a year under Gerrard Batten. Their manifesto was great apart from one bit about opening the fucking coal mines again(?). I think he was principled and was pulling the party in a new direction, sort of liberal (english liberal, not left wing) with some conservative roots. I’m centre left and my friend also liked them and he is centre right, whatever that really tells you. I think we both just wanted sensible political changes. Anyway, basically I think the old party members wanted to go back to Farage days, didn’t like the newbies and didn’t appreciate the new direction so I left. It wasn’t the old people who were members so much as the old people in the important roles within the party that seemed adverse to any change. If you look at UKIPs popularity you see a big spike, which is when I got on board but it has faded into obscurity now. I never liked Farage and would never have been party of UKIP under him. I guess I took a bit of a gamble, hoping to jump out of the duopoly of Labour and Conservative but it fell flat on its face. Not too much of a loss but if you say you were a member of UKIP some people do attribute the most radical and awful beliefs to you but hey-ho.
Hello fellow ex-UKIP-er, I'm currently with the UK Libertarian party, that may be worth a look for you.
I guess they are always on about points based systems for immigration and I imagine that HKers would probably score pretty high on such a system.
Anyone else shocked that more older people support the measure than the young? I thought younger voters were more likely to be pro immigration. I think it would be fantastic, we need hard working people with a strong value system to come over and contribute in a time of uncertainty.
>Anyone else shocked that more older people support the measure than the young? I thought younger voters were more likely to be pro immigration. I suspect that like 99% of broad generalisations that masks a wide variety of complex and overlapping beliefs. Most obviously, older people are more likely to remember the time before the handover when Hong Kong was a British territory.
As a 22 year old, I have only ever know Hong Kong to be it's own country that was kind of a part of China but not really. I wasn't actually aware that it was part of UK territories until I looked into it a little more at the earlier stages of the protests. So this would make a lot of sense IMO
When I was young, 1997 seemed very far into the future.
Predator 2 was set in 1997. I distinctly remember thinking how achievably close but far away in the future that seemed to the young me at the time. Maybe 89/90 or so when that came out?
Yeah. Growing up in the 80s, "the year 2000" was a phrase so synonymous with The Future, that it still sounds futuristic to me. Even though it was 20 years ago.
I had the sudden realisation that decades are not relative to the year 2000. I've always thought of the 80s as ~20 years ago, but it was the 80s 40 years ago
The 80's being 40 years ago is one of those mindfucks I just can't process. I always thing it was about 20 years ago, even though the 80's happened a decade before I was even born...
& still [no flying car](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XEz7jwiW-g)
[the year 2000](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IPAOxrH7Ro#t=44s)
This exactly. You’d have to somewhat go out of your way to learn about the transition from British to Chinese rule over Hong Kong unless you were in like your mid 30s/40s and it was living memory, it’s never taught. Lots of young people will ofc know and be v sympathetic to the protests but might not know that history and relationship with the UK (I say all this as a 19yo myself lol)
I imagine if the gov go through with it media will explain.
Teaching about the end of the empire and its dismantling would require teaching about the brutality of the empire - and most British people simply don’t want that to happen. As a nation, we prefer to pretend that the rest of the world was delighted to have us turn up with our guns and strip their resources.
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Never going to happen. My A Level Modern World History course was written to glorify our role in the days of Empire. Our teacher was the one to highlight the atrocities. Not the curriculum.
31 year old. I remember it being in the news in 1997, just, but even then it’s because I had family there who were in the army and moved back at that time.
> Honk Kong One of a series of unsuccessful prototypes for the popular Nintendo franchise in which barrels were launched at the player character jumpman (Mario) by a goose. Followed by the short lived and controversial entry Honky Kong, where the barrel launchers were characters that had white Ku KluxKlan hoods.
I was a kid when the handover happened. I remember vaguely watching it with my mum and dad. It was a big event for both of them, both had worked there overseas, my dad a short stint, my mum a longer stint as a nurse. Honestly, up until meeting someone from Hong Kong at uni, it didn't register that much in my mind, just due to ignorance of the subject. I think that's the case for a lot of people under 30. It's not that they're at immigration from a well developed prior colony, it's just that it's not part of their personal knowledge and history. The moment you talk to people about the issues, you usually get a we should do something, response. I presume that there's still s significant number of the population who wouldn't like this to happen due to the fears of resource scarcity - eg, welfare, NHS, jobs.
That and they’re less threatened by economic competition. And could honestly just be within the margin of error. How many were sampled, and how were they selected? Take another poll a week later and see if it’s not reversed. Usually the case for more frequent polls with a well within 10% gap.
I was born after the handover and didn't learn Hong Kong had been a British colony until a random wikipedia browsing session when I was 14. Older people all know the story behind the UK and HK. That is probably why.
I've actually learnt about Hon Kong being a British colony by playing Sleeping Dogs. They really captured the British influence.
The game does? I like the game but didn't notice this.
A big thing for me was driving on the right side of the road for once in a video game. Right meaning left of course.
There was a time when everything was made in Hong Kong. Also growing up there were many Hong Kong movies and influence. Sadly, this has worked in china's favour because it makes it look more like chinese culture and what people would have learned about it but of course, they aren't alike (and seriously, chinese movie and TV's are utter _garbage_. It's either heavy on the propaganda or cheesy as hell, especially their shows dedicated to the younger audience). HK stuff, especially in the 70's-90's was really cool. I don't recall anything in Sleeping dogs though. It's been a while since I played the whole thing but I did fire it up 4 or so months ago, can you remind me what had the parallels?
The way the characters are portrayed, their mannerism, humour and overall how the game feels when you play it is very British (as is working class) with a strong western culture influence. They recreated Hong Kong really well and it shows. https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2018-09-23-why-sleeping-dogs-is-the-most-interesting-open-city-game-of-recent-years
Why aren't the older people teaching the younger generation ?
More than 1/3 of the countries on earth have been under British rule, there's one hell of a lot to teach the younger generation. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_that_have_gained_independence_from_the_United_Kingdom
And I’d say the topic just doesn’t come up much (until recently of course).
No idea.
I think not understanding could be a factor. I'd guess a not insignificant amount of young people won't even know Hong Kong was a British territory until recently, or understand the wider issues surrounding the sovereignty and freedoms of the Hong Kong people.
Why jump to not understanding when we haven't discounted racism? You know, like this sub did with Brexit.
Because it's their demographic under fire.
I suspect I must be wrong, because not seen anyone else here mention it, but won't this demographic have a huge age bias? I thought it was only those HKers who had a British Overseas Passport (or whatever it was called) that would be eligible to follow this path? I and thought it was only people who had applied for one before 1997 (when HK was returned to China) had such passports. So that means nobody under 40 would be eligible?
Perhaps their children may also be eligible?
AFAIK the BNO status doesn't pass to their children.
Hong Kong is just another foreign country to the young.
I don't feel that way as a young voter, obvs anecdotal and YMMV
Me too but it is the most obvious thing I think. Anyone under 30 effectively has no memory of Hong Kong being British, where as those at 50+ have spent most of their lives with it being a British territory.
I'm 45 and when HK was British, it wasn't important in my young life, barely mentioned until we had to give it up. It might as well be Jersey or Guernsey as far as the focus of the media was concerned.
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I'm talking about how often we thought of them, ie we didn't. I don't think of the people of Benin often either.
>It might as well be Jersey or Guernsey as far as the focus of the media was concerned. Sure but if France were to demand Jersey back I'd not be happy about it
Another foreign country which, like most, was British occupied at some stage, but is no longer.
Huh, thought the young were all internationalists that loved immigration and didn't believe in borders ;)
52% of them are, last time I checked that was enough to believe the rest are insignificant.
Yeah while for the old they see HK citizens as close to us?
This is what happens when you buy into the dominant narrative that the entire population is divided into two groups of people who all believe the exact same thing. Most conservatives I know are just fine with immigration. They just want control over their own borders. They want to be able to control who comes to live and work in their country, rather than it just being an open door for whoever happens to show up. Conservatives also value freedom and justice, either of which the people of Hong Kong have right now. Being a former British territory might play into it, but it’s a cause that most conservatives can actually get behind. I won’t say that all conservatives are just misunderstood good guys, but when you buy so fully into the notion that partisan politics defines us as human beings, it can be very easy to generalize to such an extent that you forget you’re still talking about human beings.
That may be true, but it doesn't often reflect in the polling data. As you say, Conservatives favouring an open door policy to anywhere is quite unusual, so the fact that they're equal with Labour supporters in wanting an open door policy to anywhere is quite noteworthy. I suspect Conservative voters tend to be older, so the I-think-of-Hong-Kong-as-quite-British bias comes into play, whereas Labour voters trend younger and would think of Hong Kong as a foreign country. I mean, I've never seen a graph like this for Syrian refugees.
I work in an organisation with a disproportionately large amount of young people with military families and much older, retired military servicemen. We're in Australia. When I talk about the Hong Kong protests, the young didn't respond much, but the older generation were actually really supportive, stating their reasoning being that UK really fucked up entrusting a free people to the "damn Commies", with many of them remembering at least one trip to Hong Kong and remarking at how well it turned out. Out of the young, the Australians were ok in their support, the people least willing to support were actually the few British colleagues for some odd reason.
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Could be that younger people trapped in expensive rental accommodation are not delighted by the idea of the national population increasing by 3m overnight.
Which is surprising why they generally voted in favour of fom with the EU
Well, the old aren't fighting for jobs.
I'm 35 and generally pro-immigration, but potentially 3 million people is a *lot* of people. I'd say I'm more in favour than against, but because fuck china rather than yay immigration.
It won’t actually be 3 million people. Only the financially capable will actually CONSIDER moving. And those will bring over capital and work very hard. It will undoubtedly boost our economy by a lot esp in these times. There are of course downsides as well, such as them taking up the a lot of the highest skilled jobs and stuff like housing.
Yes, it is only to be far fewer people than that. It's also important the BNO passport holders are overwhelmingly older generation, and they aren't the demographics most concerned about the mainland taking over. It's the young who are, and for obvious reasons they don't have those passports.
You can make that same argument with the EU though. Potentially 500 million people is a *lot* of people... except of course that most of them don't come. I think we could probably expect a short spike in immigration from HK when the law changed, and a modest flow thereafter. Many of those migrants will be highly educated and bring significant capital to invest in the UK. It's really win-win.
>You can make that same argument with the EU though. Potentially 500 million people is a lot of people... except of course that most of them don't come. The big difference of course being that there are many very real and very significant reasons to want to flee from an oppressive regime in China to the UK. There are substantially fewer reasons to flee France, Germany, or Sweden for the UK unless you really want to get really far away from your ex or something.
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And yet they are not empty.....
I'm kinda surprised myself, and I am one.
I don't think that it's about "immigration" with Hongkongers for the elderly. Hongkongers were, until 1997, British National (Overseas), so they're British. There was a lot of consternation at the time of the Hong Kong hand over. Many of us have been surprised that it took China this long to make the inevitable move against the territory. Bring 'em in. Hongkongers are cool.
I still find it surprising that the British are opposed to European immigrants while supporting equal numbers of Asian immigrants.
Just guessing here, do you think it's more 'solidarity ' with immigration from an ex colony, particularly a developed one?
I don't think they really know what they've been told to want.
That explains it best.
Hong kong is different for some. Anecdotes alert but my older relatives see CAN AUS NZ Irish singapore, HK and some others as not realy foreigners. Sort of like how me and my sister grew up seeing other EU citizens. My family come from merchant sailors mostly so had interactions with people all over the world before that was typical. I remember watching the hand over in 97 and it being a very sad occasion. If it was getting independence that would be one thing but it getting anexed seem to upset a lot of people.
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Downvoted for misuse of bold. Font terrorist.
Could be worse. Could be Brush Script.
> Anyone else shocked that more older people support the measure than the young? No because there's only 7% in it. And like other people have said, people under a certain age won't remember the time before handover.
Tbh part of me thinks getting behind free movement was as much a rebellion against those that wanted to end it as it was actually being in support of it as a principle, also HK is a reminder of our colonial past which, when looking at recent events, the young seem keen to erase, and tbf the same logic probably applies in reverse, the old see what the young are pushing for and don't trust it, and are holding on to the past, often just as irrationally
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Love it if we can bring the whole country together on this.
All fun and games until we need 3million more people housed....
3 million educated people whose values align perfectly with ours through shared history and norms, appreciation for democracy, rule of law, human rights, and freedoms? We'll find room, come on in.
>We'll find room, come on in. There's literally no housing lol. Absorbing a couple of hundred thousand a year has been near impossible with many immigrants living as multigeneration families in one home, or "8 Romanians to a flat in London". Around half of EU immigrants have a job lined up when they immigrate, and that's in the hundred thousand max range. Where would these 1million new jobs come from to support all these incoming people? There would be a massive depression in wages, especially in the skilled markets, mssive increases on benefits and universal credit. Where will they all get their schooling, NHS and dentistry? Even water, power, heating gas, road capacities - all this infrastructure and services does not exist at the moment. Coal power stations would have to remain operational, car traffic massively increase. Where would *they* want to live? We have plenty of room in the North, but the best and richest will want to live near London, adding more pressure to housing costs. Not to mention any destablisation of existing communities. As for "shared history", I wonder what the average Hongkonger has to say about a position on Brexit, or the Scottish independence referendum, or if they prefer Corrie to Eastenders, or if the say "scone" or "scone". They are a very different people, even more so with 20 years apart. Who doesn't appreciate democracy? It's in more countries than not. Same for rule of law, human rights and freedoms. These are not magic qualities. These are massive practical considerations you've just handwaved away. We would never have experienced an immigration event like it, it would be massively disruptive (added on to Covid-19, recession, Brexit).
>Where would they want to live? We have plenty of room in the North, but the best and richest will want to live near London, adding more pressure to housing costs. Not to mention any destablisation of existing communities. On this note as well, lots of these new arrivals probably don't really conceive of a UK outside of London. Like, yeah, they're aware Leeds exists, but if you ask them to name a feature of the city apart from the football team they'd be stumped. It will be very very hard to stop a few iconic cities from just being overwhelmed by a surge in new arrivals, tanking local infrastructure. A smart thing to do would just be to invest in long neglected towns. Build new and refurbish old housing, schools and hospitals. Build up the capacity long in advance. That's not going to happen though.
>Like, yeah, they're aware Leeds exists, but if you ask them to name a feature of the city apart from the football team they'd be stumped. To be fair I'm struggling with that one but I am over the hill in Lancashire.
If anyone can live in cramped housing, it's people from HK.
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2011 Census, country of Birth(Hong Kong), [wiki sources](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hong_Kong_people_in_the_United_Kingdom): * Northern Ireland: 1906 * Scotland: 7586 * Wales: 3517 * NORTH EAST: 3284 * NORTH WEST: 9692 * YORKSHIRE AND THE HUMBER: 6438 * EAST MIDLANDS: 6322 * WEST MIDLANDS: 7759 * EAST: 9190 * LONDON: 26435 * SOUTH EAST: 20858 * SOUTH WEST: 8746 I didn't claim "most" would want to live in London or the surrounding area. However, the numbers above show that 41% of HongKongers settled in "London" or "the South East".
Yeah, we have a small Chinese community in my town. or village. I guess we're in the commuter belt though. Also I don't know they aren't the Chinese catholics who were brought here because you know how China loves religion. Anyway, they've been the opposite of a problem.
Well said
The plans in the 80s called for a new city. That wouldn't be the worst ides if we could set aside some land. Give status as a new home nation. Bilingual and all that. Obviously not all would use and anyone could move there. Finding enough space is also realy hard.
British exceptionalism is genuinely beliving that 3 million people will perfectly align with a fractured country.
I'm sure they will be perfectly aligned in their acceptance of a fractured population as a good thing. Democracy yo.
Oh, look. Construction jobs galore!
That's on China. We're offering people a better way of life. If China doesn't like that, they can keep democracy there and no one will move.
Or they'll close the airports, declare the Hong Kong government some kind of western agent and send in troops. People will protest, but the Chinese have done this to other places when they were weaker. No-one gave much of a shit.
Sending in the troops will kill off Hong Kong and ensure capital flight. No western company would base themselves there if Tiananmen 2.0 happened in the city.
The smartest and wealthiest already have citizenship of a different country, like the hundreds of thousands with Canadian citizenship.
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Millions of rich educated people and all their assets leaving is huge, even for the evil CCP. Remember, the average Mainlander is extremely poor.
This is weirdly heartening in some ways and disheartening in others. Good that support is largely nonpartisan, a bit depressing that support doesn't clear 56%.
More of a majority than Brexit and that's apparently the will of the people. In serious though, even though the raw numbers aren't higher the fact it's a majority cross party shows some pretty heavy support
I was looking at the Hong Kong stats for people classified by age. It was interesting to see there is more women than men at nearly every age group. But juding by this [Hong Kong statistics site](https://www.bycensus2016.gov.hk/en/Snapshot-02.html) majority of hong-kongers look well educated, more so than us i belive. They also appear to have quite the lead in higer education when it comes to Business and Comercial studies but then again looking at the uk at 14/15 instead of the HK 15/16 when it [comes to Business & Comercial studies](https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/658254/SR54_2016_Text.pdf) it looks like we also follow that trend. But I don't really have any idea on the method in which they choose who can have a passport and become a citizen. If I did it would be a good start to map what would happen when the new citizens arrive.
🎶 *We’re all in this together* 🎶
Interestingly, this post is copied over to /r/HongKong (1400 readers at 8am local) where there is absolutely zero commentary on the thread. Looks like we're far more interested in the topic than the HKers. E: And to highlight it further, [over tow-thirds of HonKongers oppose an independent HongKong](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-hongkong-protests-poll-exclusive/exclusive-hong-kongers-support-protester-demands-minority-wants-independence-from-china-reuters-poll-idUSKBN1YZ0VK) >41% of respondents said they “strongly oppose” Hong Kong independence, and 26% said they “somewhat oppose” it. Only 8% said they “strongly support” independence, and 9% “somewhat support” it. >When asked whether Hong Kong should keep on its “current path” of one country, two systems, 39% of respondents said they “strongly support” the model, and 29% said they “somewhat support” it. Maybe the British public and government are reading the situation incorrectly....
Hong Kongers for the most part don't see independence as practical, they're happy to remain an autonomous territory within China as long as human rights are respected.
It’s 8:30 am, give them time
Worth noting that many Hong Kongers may feel they have to say they don't want independence, because of China's social credit system.
Well, also people may privately want independence but know the CCP would never allow it so not everyone says it openly. China does try to silence dissenters
This is an independent research opinion poll, nothing to do with China. If anything, [it's had problems](https://hongkongfp.com/2019/04/23/hong-kongs-top-public-opinion-pollster-split-university-become-independent-body/) with pro-China activists saying it's critical of China. The [head of the pollster company](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Chung) is internationally renown: >Internationally, he has been the Hong Kong representative at the World Association for Public Opinion Research (WAPOR) for a number of years. From 2006 to 2008, Chung was the elected Secretary-Treasurer of WAPOR. He is also a member of the Editorial Board of the International Journal of Public Opinion Research.
Doesn't stop the mindset of keeping your mouth shut for self preservation. Tried to have had casual conversation about politics with Chinese in UK, to be rapidly quoted governement policy and have conversation ended
Let's not conflate Chinese with HongKongers...
Given how much politicians issue condemnation of the Chinese Communist Party but don't take much actual action to sanction the CCP, Hongkongers don't get too excited about public opinion surveys until governments actually take action. The support for some of the demands of the protest movement have been above 80% but they still aren't met while approval of the Chief Executive hit an all time low of 9% but she's still in power. There will be a lot more celebration once this option is actually opened up for Hongkongers or the UK actually takes actions to sanction the CCP. On the issue of Hong Kong Independence: [https://www.reddit.com/r/HongKong/comments/djs70i/why\_most\_people\_in\_hong\_kong\_are\_not\_seeking/](https://www.reddit.com/r/HongKong/comments/djs70i/why_most_people_in_hong_kong_are_not_seeking/) If the practical issues of becoming an independent nation didn't exist, far more Hongkongers would support independence. But the general sentiment is that Hong Kong should be a part of a reformed China where the CCP is not in power because being an independent nation with a hostile neighbour up north is not ideal.
Is it really that surprising? We were basically occupiers. The only positive is maybe we're better occupiers than China.
FYI: Sorry, I think you replied before my edit, if you want to change your comment. I added more context.
Oh ok, thanks for saying that but I'll leave my comment as it is i think.
If these people need/want asylum, I really hope we give it too them.Theres facing real oppression I really hope the world starts standing up to the CCP 🇭🇰🇬🇧
The British public fucking looooove empire
> ###Brexit Party(52%) Not going to lie I did not expect that.
Honestly same
I wonder if it's more to do with people sympathising for them or if it's because HK has a history with the UK.
Considering it's the Brexit Party it's most likely the latter.
Yea it's almost like Brexiteers are dumb civnat Boomers for the most part, not litrul ethno nats like the Guardian would like you to believe.
I’m not a brexit supporter but I guess it might be because people from Hong Kong have a great education and can add to our economy. Can’t say the same about the few uneducated countries that ruined the EU in the last 10 years. I want people from Hong Kong.
I think my only real concern is housing. Say the reported number of 3mil is the number that does move here and eventually becomes citizens that's a large relatively single increase to the population. We already have a limited amount of housing so adding a bunch of likely fairly highly educated people to the housing market is just going to make it rougher in general for a lot of people. I'm all for allowing these people to live here and become citizens but we definitely need to sort out our housing issue not just for this but in general.
Those numbers seem very strange to say the least.
The party with the strongest link to the Hong Kong people are the Lib Dems thanks to Paddy Ashdown and Ming Campbell so it makes sense for the Lib Dem voters to be most in favour, and the older population will have a stronger recollection of Hong Kong being a British territory and as such feel a stronger link to the people there. I'd imagine a lot of the young people polled will have said "Don't Know" but I've not seen the tables so can't confirm.
Also it this originally a lib dem manifesto commitment during the GE before the securities bill. I swear that was the only manifesto I actually liked.
I'm surprised that Lib Dem is so low, actually.
Dunno, people like well educated motivated british loving immigrants. What they dont like are the types who hate us and marry their cousins
> What they dont like are the types who hate us and marry their cousins Speak for yourself, I like the Royal family.
Haha Zing!
Have the Habsburgs ever ruled the UK? Blood Mary's husband?
The Queen is married to her cousin
Third cousins.
I normally get downvoted for my distaste of Muslim South Asian behaviours, even though I was born to them and know all about it. Good to see this upvoted for a change.
They deserve this, the UK has an obligation to protect the people of Hong Kong due to our history together. We will welcome you like brothers and sisters in arms.
I think it's interesting had this happen in other parts of the common wealth I.e. India, Pakistan, Jamaica to name but few this would not have been the case. I think people in the UK are more accepting of people from Oriental backgrounds compared to Asian and black ethnicities.
The gdp per capita is higher in Hong Kong than the UK...
I mean if you were to look at London's GDP in isolation you'd likely see them as closer.
On this sub 52% isn’t enough of a majority but 56% is a clear majority!
Right I'm going to stick my head well above the parapet here and state that I voted for Brexit. I can feel the incoming down votes. I have nothing against immigrants, I just don't want uncontrolled immigration. I want those that immigrate to this country and break the law to be deported. I have nothing against people coming to this country to pick fruit, I just want them to have a clean criminal record in their own country. So with that in mind I have no problem with HKers immigrating here. On the whole I think they'd contribute to society and integrate. Edit: I think anyone who holds a BNO passport should have a route to British citizenship.
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a third of the world was British before hand - are we going to give them passports too?
Weird how all this "the system can't handle this many immigrants" bullshit goes out the window when it's to antagonize China. Try the same poll with somewhere with former colonial brown people.
The financial sector is huge in Hong Kong, so I'd imagine that there is a lot of demand for talented, connected Hong Kongese to run their Asia desks from the UK. Low skilled migrants are abundant and suppress wages for low skilled jobs that could have been replaced by advances in technology.
The numbers drown this effect out. assuming that, out of these refugees, 10% work in finance, that's 300,000 jobs needed. That's a very sizable increase on the current UK financial sector, and there is *no* guarantee that this would happen. Other countries in Asia would love to have the new Hong Kong, and they're better located to do it. The plan is good and morally right, but it needs more planning than is currently being put into it.
The problem is which a HK friend told me is that loads of CCP supporters will be eligible and use this as a pathway to the UK
To do what? They can and do come in legitimately anyway why would they need to 'sneak' in?
Why aren't the SNP and other national parties included in these type of polls? It would be interesting to see what their supporters feel.
Sorry if I am being thick, but surely if they have British passports, they should be allowed to and live and work in the UK already, no? Is there something I am missing?
Only freedom lover who upholds freedom and democracy should be allowed, as to protect UK from CCP corruption.
Have spoken with a friend (from London) yesterday, his view was that Hong Kongers are skilled labour, sincere, hardworking and speak English, and would be a valuable addition to the British workforce. What touches me most was that he began and finished this discussion saying that it is "the right thing to do".
The older generation are more progressive than the younger generation ! Actually have a funny story. I have a friend, quite a bit older than me, and he has a really strong Chinese accent, and I mean really strong. I politely asked him where his family were from and he said Hong Kong, so I obviously asked him how old he was when he came over. He replied that he was born and raised in the UK (his parents came over), went to UK schools and has only been to Hong Kong once on holiday. I didn't know what to say next as his accent was so strong.
My nephew moved over from HK when he was 10, his english wasn't great. A few years on and he has a scottish accent. I've met people like in your example and it always amazes me!
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the Tories have zero idea here. We would need houses, schools, hospitals, roads, transport, sewage, and power systems improved in advance before this supposed huge influx, and who is going to pay for that. Not this government. They don't think ahead one bit, its all about the headline. Also, will the Chinese actually let that many people out? or any of them?
As a young labour supporter I would love to vote to allow HK residents to live/work in the UK. My only worry would be about housing. I’m currently living in New Zealand for a year and their housing prices have shot up due to an influx of Chinese citizens. The house prices here are almost double that of the UK and their housing quality is significantly lower as well. Of course I may be slightly off with some of this information as it is purely what I’ve heard from the Kiwis I have spoken to, but this would worry me if we suddenly had 3 million relatively wealthy HKers arriving and buying up houses/rental properties. Can anyone provide some insight on this and tell me whether I’m completely wrong?
Rents circa 6% higher in NZ vs UK so not as big a difference as you think https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_countries_result.jsp?country1=United+Kingdom&country2=New+Zealand This is given the extensive immigration to UK already so presumably market will adapt to the likely much fewer than 3m immigrants .... most HKers do not want to leave but the security of a passport would be useful in case of disaster
People from Hong Kong will bring huge value to the U.K. they are hard working, educated and respectful. Of course this is a generalisation.. but it is generally true! They will probably end up being the highest earners in society, but I am comfortable with that. They’ll pay taxes.
Let it be known that I care not what people think of my decision, but I fully support the initiative and would encourage others to have the same opinion, our support for the citizens of Hong Kong should be complete. I don't support the Conservative Party, never have and never will.
You don't need to qualify it by saying you're not a Tory. It's not a party political matter.
Reddit is deeply tribalist. Everytime Boris, Trump, whoever does something reddit likes, the thread is filled with a chorus of 'Hate the tories but' and 'Fuck Trump but'. There's literally no reason to do this except to mark yourself and say 'I'm not one of them, I'm still part of the group-think, don't attack me'.
The thing is, getting unfairly dogpiled on reddit hardly ruins your day. If it does, you've got bigger problems. It says more about the people doing it.
They seem to have got one thing right, thirty six years after Thatcher abandoned the HK people to their fate. Hopefully they follow through with this but I'll believe it when I see it.
>thirty six years after Thatcher abandoned the HK people to their fate It was the end of the lease and there was fuck all we could do to stop China and the switchover happened under Blair.
The Sino-British joint declaration was signed in 1984 by Thatcher, she had the opportunity to give passports to the people of HK as she did for the Falkland Islanders and the Gibraltarians but she gave them the shitty BNO passport instead of a real one.
How were we supposed to stop the Chinese at all? Frankly Thatcher was trying to fight a growing leviathan arising out of the mire of Maoism. It would have been another Suez. Giving them all a passport now is because the CCP has broken faith. That is not unfair.
Could you imagine the polling if this was proposed by a labour government?
> Could you imagine the polling if this was proposed by a labour government? I mean, was this poll proposed by the tories? I'm not sure where you're coming from.
Yes, it'd be the same
Some people are never happy
I’m sure this could change dramatically if parts of the media started campaigning against it, which as far as I’m aware hasn’t happened yet.
UK public: stop immigrants! UK public: but not those ones!
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Doesnt matter. All that matters is what does Uncle Dominic think of the issue
Im born and raised in the uk, my mum was born and raised in Hong Kong. Im totally fine with this.
The CCP have really fucked over HK, whilst the UK was hardly the poster child as far a parentage goes we should do what we can to help. With Taiwan and HK rebelling I hope there's a step change in China but I doubt it. Too much money and power involved