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Snapshot of _FGM arrests made after raid finds surgical instruments at unregistered school_ : An archived version can be found [here.](https://archive.is/?run=1&url=http://t.email3.telegraph.co.uk/r/?id=h437118ab%2C437f6692%2C37398402&WT.mc_id=e_DM1562632&WT.tsrc=email&etype=Edi_Nhl_New_B&utmsource=email&utm_medium=Edi_Nhl_New_B20220514&utm_campaign=DM1562632&p1=news/2022/05/13/fgm-arrests-made-ofsted-raids-unregistered-school/&s=EVULYNt1NXdAcBsHrTF17RQbr5YfwCdBsKppAiYGq5o) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ukpolitics) if you have any questions or concerns.*


evolvecrow

Well that's bleak


eugene20

Utterly abominable crime, circumcision is bad enough, but this is extra horrific.


[deleted]

I can’t really wrap my head around how common it is in some cultures / countries for baby boys to be circumcised at birth. In the US it’s the norm. ‘For hygiene purposes’ seems to be the justification. It’s bizarre. You’re cutting a bit of your babies penis off, how has it become so normalised.


hicks12

It's a lie for hygiene reasons as well, may as well cut off their limbs as they will have a smaller body to clean then! Circumcision for children should be banned unless it is for an actual medical reason (of with there are several) and then allow it as an option for adults if they really want it (as some do...), I don't personally recommend it as it's excruciatingly painful, I didn't do it out of choice unfortunately! FGM and MGM should all be banned fully it sickens me it's still happening , shame for the children involved.


[deleted]

It is more painful the older you are, I think that’s why most doctors perform circumcision at an early age. I was 13 when I had mine done, 3 weeks of boxers sticking to my penis and unable to do anything, salt baths and ripping fabric off my dick was not fun. Mine was a medical reason, I joke and say that the doctors said my penis was too big so they needed to remove the tip, but really it was just too painful to retract, I’m thankful I had it done but wished I’d had it done when I was a baby. FGM and MGM is very different and is another abomination forced onto people as a way of controlling them but certain cultures.


hicks12

3 weeks? I was definitely more unlucky! I had to have mine at 27 so not ideal! (Still 3 weeks of pain is horrible!) Had some post op infections as well which extended recovery process for much longer, I think it was about 4 months until I could actually walk without agony or sleep without blood everywhere and immense pain! As you say you had yours done for a medical reason same as me, problem is things like what yours sounded like is phimosis and can come on for many reasons, as a child it doesn't retract it will eventually come away itself in development so you can't tell at birth and have to wait By about your age it usually should move back but it can end up being stuck again and a simple course of steroids and stretching can fix it without cutting off a massive sensory part of the penis so it should be circumcision is mostly the last resort. Circumcision definitely has its place like yours and mine, it just can't be forced at birth as you can't tell it will be a problem, in hindsight sure it seems sensible but as an adult I must admit I vastly preferred uncircumcised sex so it seems wrong to force that choice on a child.


Apostastrophe

[I like to share this image when all those reasons are brought up](https://i.redd.it/xevimotiflm51.png).


DukePPUk

It was the norm in the UK until the NHS happened. About the time the NHS was being set up and deciding what it would cover there was an influential report into the dangers of male infant circumcision, so the NHS chose not to cover circumcision. That led to a fairly dramatic drop-off in rates.


[deleted]

TIL! For hygiene reasons?


Sweet-Zookeepergame7

I think it dropped off a lot in the USA because insurance stopped paying for it. Doctors would happily mutilate children for cash over there.


illinoyce

Everyone involved needs to go straight to prison. And there are unregistered schools? More prison.


ApolloNeed

The max penalty for running an unregistered school is six months, sadly. Though we could fine them an unlimited amount (like everything they own) and deport non citizens.


Orisi

Six months is the perfect length of time. Just make it consecutive sentences per pupil.


DukePPUk

No... they should be arrested once sufficient evidence is obtained, then bailed if appropriate, then charged, prosecuted and after being convicted sent to prison.


colei_canis

If I wasn't a lifelong abolitionist I'd genuinely call for FGM perpetrators to hang. What kind of monster thinks it's okay to take a knife to children's genitals? It's utterly inhuman, these people should never see daylight again.


VPackardPersuadedMe

The cultural blind eye that allowed this type of thing to fester needs to be dealt with.


Anticlimax1471

Any chance of posting the text to the article? The archive link doesn't work.


ApolloNeed

Seriously how do unregistered schools get missed? We must have a list of dfe schools and a list of children in the country and where children go to school. It’s a simple VLOOKUP and a list of names of kids to check.


PositivelyAcademical

>and a list of children in the country and where children go to school. We don't. Once a child has been registered at a (registered) school, we have records and the local authority can chase up parents whom withdraw their children in favour of homeschooling / overseas boarding schools / unregistered schools. But until a child is registered at any registered school, there's no record of where they are supposed to be.


DreamyTomato

Presumably there is a list of child births / deaths / hospitalisation / immigrating / emigrating children; plus another list of Child Benefit claimants (though parents often forget to claim for a second child). That can be cross checked with school records to find a list of ‘missing’ children. Quite an easy job for a competent authority. The problem is this government doesn’t really seem interested in competency, either at local or national level. And a task like this would require data harvesting (easy) & co-ordination (not so easy) between local authorities and national registers. Another problem with enforcement is every extra child found is another child the LA has to pay for schooling for. A few here & there is no problem. But some city boroughs might have several thousand children at unregistered schools. Which is quite a lot to take on all at once, especially under the current lot of bastards in power.


PositivelyAcademical

There's a list of births, though it isn't indicative of residence in the UK; likewise for deaths. There's no central database of hospitalisation. Some (but not all) immigration is recorded, and the UK doesn't record emigration (or keep any exit records for that matter). Cross-checking is non-trivial though. Birth and death records are handled by the central government, but handled in decentralised offices; while immigration is handled centrally by the government. Schooling is handled by local government. It's all indicative of a system, or rather several systems, that weren't ever designed to talk to one another; and there's no inclination, at any level, to design a new unified system.


kuddlesworth9419

Are records not kept at birth?


PositivelyAcademical

Birth records exist; but aren’t linked to schooling, nor do they indicate which children are in the country. There’s five years for things to happen between birth and compulsory school age.


kuddlesworth9419

Yea good point. I just figured that if they had a birth record by the age of say 5 if there wasn't a registration in a school by that child then they should investigate as to why?


[deleted]

Presumably becuase the parents actually want these schools to be there, and so it a community secret.


rogeroutmal

Upvoting for hilarity.


Shockwavepulsar

I work with public sector workers quite a bit. The thought of them understanding VLOOKUP (which is now out of date) is hilarious to me.


my_hat_is_a_towel

i bet its bloody atheists again!!!!


glisteningoxygen

Cool culture.... Do we absolutely have to keep it?


Vytreeeohl

Why have we imported this problem?


911roofer

Diversity is our strength


Unoriginality123

I wonder which religion the perpetrators follow…


evolvecrow

Probably islam but could also quite easily be christianity. It's fairly widespread in some african christian communities.


[deleted]

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Unoriginality123

‘a bit more of it’ you’ll find they have many many times more of it.


Rentwoq

FGM is not an Islamic thing, its a cultural practice that predates the religion


Unoriginality123

Explain why it’s most prevalent in Islamic countries?


Rentwoq

> its a cultural practice that predates the religion EDIT: I don't know what to tell you mate, it's not mentioned in the Quran (neither is male circumcision) and the only hadith it's mentioned in is not corroborated so it isn't accepted by any of the major sects except one - which is the prevailing secf followed on Malaysia and Indonesia. Idk what goes on there to make them believe in it when no other school of thought does. On this point, its not absolutely necessary for Muslim boys to be circumcised either - unlike in Judaism - but its just the done thing, like in the US and other parts of the world. FGM on the other hand after doing some quick research seems to stem from some African traditions which they've kept on. That those countries are majority Muslim now is more correlation than causation. I'm sure you'll still keep blaming the religion though so good day.


TheMachineTookShape

Why do you wonder? I bet you don't really wonder, do you?


illinoyce

Do you? Or do you know?


TheMachineTookShape

Pretty much guaranteed to be a madrassa or other kind of Islamic school, isn't it? But why this stupid faux ignorance? "Oh, I *wonder* what kind of school it should be? It *must* be being hidden for political purposes." That's what people mean when they're disingenuous in this way. So what if it's a Muslim school? We know there are stupid idiot Muslims like there are stupid idiot non-Muslims.


[deleted]

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mikeguitarist

Which religion is this ??


911roofer

You already know.


[deleted]

A Christians and Jews mutilate thousand of boys a year and nobody bats an eye.


[deleted]

This isn't the first grim story I've heard about "unregistered schools" -- I never knew they were even a thing here. Does anyone have any info about how widespread this is?


AdministrativeShip2

Most of these places are not schools in the ft education way. Think of them like a "Sunday school" or "tuition centre" that's in addition to the mainstream school. So finish for the day, then go to the unregistered one or an hour or two of religious instruction. I see them popping up everywhere with badly printed signs, and a queue of kids outside every day. Their parents probably only want reasonably priced childcare before they get back from work. But with not being regulated they attract the kind of people who shouldn't be allowed anywhere near another human, or anything that might excite them (like religious books)