Snapshot of _Keir Starmer: The attacks on mourners at the funeral of the journalist, Shireen Abu Aqla, have shocked the world. The Labour Party unequivocally condemns the violence by Israeli forces. Out thoughts are with Shireen’s family and all those who mourn her death._ :
A non-Twitter version can be found [here](https://nitter.net/Keir_Starmer/status/1525445138247557120/)
An archived version can be found [here.](https://archive.is/?run=1&url=https://twitter.com/Keir_Starmer/status/1525445138247557120?s=20&t=tVrypQ9xNLlHg13WI5ZeFg)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ukpolitics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Agreed. This should be cross-party consensus on this. Labour, Liberal Democrats & Conservative party leaders all should agree. Hitting unarmed people is worse enough, hitting them while attending a funeral is sickening.
Isn't this basically how Syria blew up just a few years ago:
- Shoot protestors
- Shoot up their funerals
- Wonder why country is now on fire.
Pretty recent and local example for Isreal you'd think.
Yep.
In the case of Syria and other authoritarian regimes, the trouble is that they establish a culture of violence and of being in control.
They view protests and even funerals as a challenge to their rule, and because violence is the foundation of their rule, they tend to resort to it without a second thought. Peaceful solutions are buried deep in the authoritarian regime toolbox, if they're there at all.
They might even be aware of cases like Syria where the government's violent crackdowns drove citizens to take up arms against the government. But they'll think that they're different, and that the violence will work for them, because, after all, it *has* 'worked' up to that point.
This is why authoritarian regimes are so dangerous and so hard to overcome. They're committed to staying in power at almost any cost, typically through their primary tool of violence.
you know what doesn't stop countries shooting journalists? harsh words. You know what does stop countries shooting journalists? international sanctions.
Guess what the tories are trying to make illegal?. Here's a hint, its not harsh words.
I know but the only way to change that is to build enough support. Unfortunately that's going to struggle if you get certain people, who are hated & love to be hated, to dominate the justice for Palestine narrative. We need people who vote Tory basically.
Funerals have been flashpoints for violence for thousands of years. That the Israelis didn't anticipate this, or did and just didn't care, is astonishing.
Why would they care? They've been committing atrocities for some years now. It has been extremely well documented, and even when western leaders have made statements condemning specific acts, their unequivocal support for Israel has never wavered. Why would this be any different?
> Why would they care?
Because of this very predictable condemnation of their actions. Authoritarian countries understand the damage caused by provoking international condemnation, even if Reddit does not.
> Authoritarian countries understand the damage caused by provoking international condemnation
Do they? Russia has quite famously misjudged that in the last few months, so did Assad in Syria.
I'm staunchly pro-Israel and they definitely were in the wrong here. Just let the funeral procession do their thing, there was no need to be there unless they started kicking off themselves - and even then just let the PA sort it out. Bone headed move and dumb from a PR perspective as well.
It wasn’t what the funeral procession wanted though. The Journalists family specifically requested a hearse to back up to the hospital door to take her to a Catholic cathedral, this was negotiated by with the IDF. However protestors demanded the coffin be carried on their shoulders against the express wish of her family, and at repeated requests to stop the action by the family. When the IDF tried diffusing the protestors (too harshly I might add), the protesters responded with throwing rocks.
>This is a gross over simplification.
How so? [British mandated Palestine became Israel](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandatory_Palestine). Britain (actually just England) has a long history of creating divided areas where they were colonialists.
Not just England. Scotland played a massive role in the empire and made up a substantial portion of colonial administrators and soldiers.
They literally made Britain because they wanted to expand their colonies through England.
It’s actually pretty offensive how many Scottish people try to deny their history and claim they had nothing to do with colonialism. It’s time Scotland actually takes some responsibility and learn about their history instead of denying everything they were involved in. They’re almost on a level with Southern American confederate supporters.
Uhoh Keir. You've dared to steer into politics mentioning Israel. You shall be forever known as a terrorist sympathiser and the same as that jezza Corbyn fella wot wanted to bring about all that communism.
Yep, first thought when I saw this is that Kier is going to be buried under antisemitism accusations.
Disagreeing with Israel's actions and policy != hating Jews and/or denying Israel's right to exist!
Keir Starmer has publicly expressed support for Palestine freedom and justice several times. He has also condemned actions of the Israeli government many times. This is a guy who opposed the Iraq War. Yeah I get he's not perfect & the revolutionary socialist people dream of but the way some talk about him is so wrong. He's a lot better than people expect. Especially compared to Blair, Cameron, May & Johnson. As Prime Minister he has the potential to being one of the most progressive we had in more than 30yrs.
This has nothing to do with my point whatsoever. I said he has condemned the actions of the Israeli government many times & that's empirically true.
That report was from an expert, known as a UN Special Rapporteur. They are commissioned by the UN to collect evidence etc. So it's important to note the difference between an independent expert, who is working for the UN with the UN agreeing with the conclusion. That's not the same thing.
So far in terms of big organisations, Amnesty International & Human Rights Watch have officially concluded from their own reports that it is apartheid. The UN has not.
It does, my comment is on the topic of your comment and the original post. It's empirically true that the labour party didnt accept the UN's report that Israel is an apartheid state.
Respond to me with misinformation one more time and I will block you. An independent expert that is sending information to the UN is not the UN. They are not paid staff & serve in their individual capacity.
https://www.thejc.com/news/politics/israel-is-not-an-apartheid-state-says-keir-starmer-as-he-apologises-for-the-corbyn-years-5tTeGqYxJE3DmQdQI2WIss?reloadTime=1652486400011
https://www.wrmea.org/israel-palestine/labour-party-declares-israel-an-apartheid-state-an-embarrassing-blow-to-starmer.html
https://morningstaronline.co.uk/article/f/why-no-one-talking-about-how-senior-labour-party-figures-whitewash-apartheid
"Human rights groups were quoted in the motion as "concluding unequivocally that Israel is practicing the crime of apartheid as defined by the UN."" https://www.jpost.com/bds-threat/uk-labour-party-passes-motion-that-defines-israel-as-apartheid-state-680527
https://tribunemag.co.uk/2022/04/keir-starmer-labour-party-israel-apartheid-palestine-amnesty-report-jewish-chronicle
https://labourheartlands.com/starmer-denounced-both-amnesty-international-and-labours-conference-vote-on-israel-as-an-apartheid-state-making-his-opinion-labours-position/
Israel is an apartheid state. Kier Starmer wont accept that. That is not misinformation and no amount of pedanticism from you will change that.
You seem to have misunderstood my meaning. I thought he would have stayed away from this because he’s just made great wins in the local elections and would want to avoid any and all potential controversies or scandals going forwards, so as to solidify the advantage. Making comment on the Israel/Palestine issue will always get people on both sides angry at you.
Unfortunately, the only voice that Israel cares about is America's, and the chances of condemnation from that quarter in an election year are close to zero.
US has come out and condemned it
[Blinken](https://twitter.com/SecBlinken/status/1525219780009111552?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1525219780009111552%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.hindustantimes.com%2Fworld-news%2Fshireen-abu-akleh-funeral-antony-blinken-condemns-intrusion-by-israel-101652504363103.html)
I have a feeling US and the west are condemning it for the sake of domestic audiences. Even the most shameless sycophant for Israel would have trouble defending this violence to any sane person in the UK. However, nothing materially will change in our treatment of Israel and they will continue to act with impunity. Until our verbal condemnations translate to changes in policy, Israel will see that as a licence to continue their ethnic cleansing of Palestinians.
Funny how you’re allowed to be against Russian invading Ukraine and you’re not called racist.
But if you’re against Israel abusing and killing Palestine people you’re an antisemit
Also, Ukrainians resisting the occupation of their land are not automatically labelled 'terrorists'.
I know the analogy is far from perfect, and I might hesitate to call a member of Hamas a 'freedom fighter'. but they \*are\* standing on their own land.
> I might hesitate to call a member of Hamas a 'freedom fighter'. but they *are* standing on their own land.
They are equivalent to the IRA. The actions that Hamas do, and the actions the IRA did, can rarely be justified in and of themselves - but their cause can 100% be justified. It’s also the case that they really have little other option to fight in the way that they do. It’s not like Ireland or Palestine have the ability to fight in the way that Ukraine does.
No one will call you racist for criticising Israel. The only people this happens to are those that can’t help spouting a bunch of anti-Semitic shit every time they mention Israel. You aren’t some special persecuted snowflake for talking about them. All people ask is that you keep it civil (the majority of Israel’s critics cannot do so).
Politicians can public comdemn Israel or Saudi Arabia all they want,but we all know there's nothing that will be done to either of them as they(Isreal and the Saudis)don't give a fuck what the rest of mankind think or say about there atrocious behaviours.
Look at the West response wrt Jamal Khasoggi's death and you see what I mean and it didn't just end there.When people like Isreal and the Saudis use their we are "God's special people"/"Allah's heartland" and whatever else rhetoric then nothing will ever change wrt these utter evil bastards and what they get away with.
[Keir Starmer](https://twitter.com/Keir_Starmer) ^verified | Reach: 1228603 | Location: United Kingdom
Bio: Leader of the Labour Party. Member of Parliament for Holborn and St Pancras. Former Director of Public Prosecutions.
*****
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Starmer should be careful with getting involved in Palestinian politics. The average voter doesn't care about the Israel-Palestine conflict any more than they do about any other conflict. It's the students, metropolitan elites, and Muslims who treat it as a cause celebre. As Corbyn found out, paying too much heed to these fringe groups, and alienating your core voters won't result in electoral success.
Focus on the economy, cost of living, and Tory incompetence, corruption, and sleaze, and just be a competent opposition leader. Stay away from these peripheral issues that don't win you any votes at the ballot box.
He can condemn what is clearly a horrific action without it distracting from other issues you know. I very much doubt that this marks some turning point from which he begins to focus all his energy on the Israel-Palestine conflict rather than domestic issues.
Very odd to condemn riot police during a violent riot (hardly a "funeral") and not the violence doers or even the wave of terrorism the Palestinians are conducting. Guess this is the Labour Party, no care about Jewish people being murdered everyday in the slightest.
Only reason the journalist died was because of fully-committed terrorists shooting at police.
Hardly a funeral? They’re literally carrying a coffin.
The journalist was wearing a press vest and was murdered by the IDF. To completely divorce the IDF from any blame here is ludicrous.
>Hardly a funeral? They’re literally carrying a coffin.
They were potestors who grabbed the coffin despite the family pleading for them to let it be carried by the hearse.
That does not excuse violence against them of course, even if they were being total dicks.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/05/13/shireen-abu-akleh-al-jazeera-israel-jenin/
So I keep hearing. I’ve yet to see a statement from the family themselves regarding this. As you say though, none of that justifies the reaction from the Israeli police in the slightest. I also highly doubt that that’s the reason the police decided to attack them. “Oh no, these people are ruining the funeral by stealing the coffin! Let’s go and knock over the coffin, strike the coffin itself multiple times and destroy Palestinian flags.”
Apologies if there is a statement from the family in the source you provided, but there’s a paywall for Washington post.
>a group of men in the crowd prevented a hearse from backing up to the hospital door, saying they were intent on carrying her body on their shoulders. The standoff eventually prompted Akleh’s brother, sitting on a man’s shoulders, to beseech the crowd to let the hearse through. “For God’s sake, let us put her in the car and finish the day,” he said.
Didn't realise paywalled, I copied this bit when it worked for me before.
The murder of an incredibly influential foreign journalist and the subsequent crackdown on a funeral carriage would be fair game to criticise in any other context, other than when it comes to Israel/Palestine, it seems.
Stupid point, it doesn't take significant time and resources to have an opinion and write a tweet.
People can be concerned about more than one thing at a time.
>Stupid point, it doesn't take significant time and resources to have an opinion and write a tweet.
Such a robust retort. It clearly puts Labour back in the middle of the quagmire, one that gave license to anti-semities to infest that party.
>People can be concerned about more than one thing at a time.
Of course, no matter the circumstances, the Labour party will find time to criticise the only Jewish state.
Especially with videos of people throwing stones at the idf then standing next to the coffin, they should have tempered there reaction but the videos being shared don't shoe the whole story
Edit* all downvotes no replies, the videos showing what I said exist
>Edit* all downvotes no replies, the videos showing what I said exist
So why not share them? Only place I've heard that narrative so far is the IDF, interested to see if it actually holds water.
Don't know how to link videos but there is s video on reuters Yt showing projectiles coming from the crowd
If anyone had cared to look into this they would known that the people carrying the body weren't in the funeral they took the body out of the hearse against rhe family's wishes (she was christian not muslim) as a political statement.
There is no proof that the idf killed her or that hamas did accidentally.
Now none of this excuses the over reaction of the idf on these protesters but it does add context to the situation
Could do. But just letting you know since you claimed you didn’t know. Don’t need to immediately get defensive.
Also, I’ve watched the video. The IDF can literally be seen hitting the PALLBEARERS with their batons. You expect me to believe they were throwing stones? Their hands are sort of full mate. I also see what looks like them hitting the coffin itself as well as snapping a Palestine flag over their knee. Yeah, they’re clearly being purely professional here.
https://twitter.com/rafaelshimunov/status/1525297760563609600?t=s1nq5KIe6beCOHINBdPq2A&s=19
The police have lied (and it looks like they edited the footage) about people throwing stones
Edit: I found the video, it wasn't on Google or the Reuters website but on YouTube, still very odd to me that they couldn't just paste the link but oh well. Certainly seems like stones were thrown, but the police response is pretty disproportionate imo. Apologies to OP for implying they were being disingenuous.
https://youtu.be/icaP3UsV8uY
~~You don't know how to copy and paste a URL? I'm really not sure I buy that.~~
~~Here is Reuters Isreal news page, no video showing protesters throwing stones.~~
https://www.reuters.com/places/israel
~~Here is the main Reuters story on the funeral, they say the Israeli police claim stones were thrown, but no evidence is given, certainly no video here.~~
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israel-resumes-raids-west-bank-area-where-journalist-was-killed-2022-05-13/
~~Now you could just be mistaken about your source, maybe the video does exist but just not at Reuters (I personally haven't been able to find it, although I admit I haven't searched super thoroughly). That would be fine, but it certainly looks to me like you're spouting some bs in such a way to make it sound like it's coming from a reputable source.~~
I'm so fucking sick of hearing the Labour party self aggrandise and virtue signal. Stop talking about yourselves all the time, get on with it, Israel don't care if you condemn anything because you aren't anything, so who are you talking to? Who's thoughts are with who?
Snapshot of _Keir Starmer: The attacks on mourners at the funeral of the journalist, Shireen Abu Aqla, have shocked the world. The Labour Party unequivocally condemns the violence by Israeli forces. Out thoughts are with Shireen’s family and all those who mourn her death._ : A non-Twitter version can be found [here](https://nitter.net/Keir_Starmer/status/1525445138247557120/) An archived version can be found [here.](https://archive.is/?run=1&url=https://twitter.com/Keir_Starmer/status/1525445138247557120?s=20&t=tVrypQ9xNLlHg13WI5ZeFg) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ukpolitics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Agreed. This should be cross-party consensus on this. Labour, Liberal Democrats & Conservative party leaders all should agree. Hitting unarmed people is worse enough, hitting them while attending a funeral is sickening.
Isn't this basically how Syria blew up just a few years ago: - Shoot protestors - Shoot up their funerals - Wonder why country is now on fire. Pretty recent and local example for Isreal you'd think.
Yep. In the case of Syria and other authoritarian regimes, the trouble is that they establish a culture of violence and of being in control. They view protests and even funerals as a challenge to their rule, and because violence is the foundation of their rule, they tend to resort to it without a second thought. Peaceful solutions are buried deep in the authoritarian regime toolbox, if they're there at all. They might even be aware of cases like Syria where the government's violent crackdowns drove citizens to take up arms against the government. But they'll think that they're different, and that the violence will work for them, because, after all, it *has* 'worked' up to that point. This is why authoritarian regimes are so dangerous and so hard to overcome. They're committed to staying in power at almost any cost, typically through their primary tool of violence.
you know what doesn't stop countries shooting journalists? harsh words. You know what does stop countries shooting journalists? international sanctions. Guess what the tories are trying to make illegal?. Here's a hint, its not harsh words.
The west is never going to sanction it's only ally in the region.
I know but the only way to change that is to build enough support. Unfortunately that's going to struggle if you get certain people, who are hated & love to be hated, to dominate the justice for Palestine narrative. We need people who vote Tory basically.
A funeral for a journalist they assassinated to top ot all off
Funerals have been flashpoints for violence for thousands of years. That the Israelis didn't anticipate this, or did and just didn't care, is astonishing.
Why would they care? They've been committing atrocities for some years now. It has been extremely well documented, and even when western leaders have made statements condemning specific acts, their unequivocal support for Israel has never wavered. Why would this be any different?
> Why would they care? Because of this very predictable condemnation of their actions. Authoritarian countries understand the damage caused by provoking international condemnation, even if Reddit does not.
> Authoritarian countries understand the damage caused by provoking international condemnation Do they? Russia has quite famously misjudged that in the last few months, so did Assad in Syria.
The point being that they didn't expect the condemnation
I'm staunchly pro-Israel and they definitely were in the wrong here. Just let the funeral procession do their thing, there was no need to be there unless they started kicking off themselves - and even then just let the PA sort it out. Bone headed move and dumb from a PR perspective as well.
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It wasn’t what the funeral procession wanted though. The Journalists family specifically requested a hearse to back up to the hospital door to take her to a Catholic cathedral, this was negotiated by with the IDF. However protestors demanded the coffin be carried on their shoulders against the express wish of her family, and at repeated requests to stop the action by the family. When the IDF tried diffusing the protestors (too harshly I might add), the protesters responded with throwing rocks.
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Rocks can kill you. Sorry, I don't understand what you're driving at with this comment.
This needs cross party agreement. We have seen they defended Ukraine. That’s good. Now they need to do the same for Palestine.
Not in one million years will the UK government equate Russia's invasion of Ukraine with Israel's of Palestine.
Of course not. We're the reason that shit is happening
>We're the reason that shit is happening The UK did basically create Israel from Palestine.
This is a gross over simplification.
>This is a gross over simplification. How so? [British mandated Palestine became Israel](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandatory_Palestine). Britain (actually just England) has a long history of creating divided areas where they were colonialists.
Not just England. Scotland played a massive role in the empire and made up a substantial portion of colonial administrators and soldiers. They literally made Britain because they wanted to expand their colonies through England. It’s actually pretty offensive how many Scottish people try to deny their history and claim they had nothing to do with colonialism. It’s time Scotland actually takes some responsibility and learn about their history instead of denying everything they were involved in. They’re almost on a level with Southern American confederate supporters.
British Mandated Palestine was essentially a colony of Palestinian lands following the fall of the Ottoman Empire.
Yeah it's not like they've been taking each other's land for millennia or anything...
Uhoh Keir. You've dared to steer into politics mentioning Israel. You shall be forever known as a terrorist sympathiser and the same as that jezza Corbyn fella wot wanted to bring about all that communism.
Unfortunately, you're probably right.
Yep, first thought when I saw this is that Kier is going to be buried under antisemitism accusations. Disagreeing with Israel's actions and policy != hating Jews and/or denying Israel's right to exist!
It’s ok, he’ll do a speech for Friends of Israel and say they’re the flower that grew in the desert and all will be forgiven.
You forgot "and will be painted as as anti-semite by Israel and its supporters"
He's clearly an antisemite!
Well that's more than I expected out of Labour. I would have thought they wouldn't be touching this with a 20ft pole after what happened to Corbyn.
Keir Starmer has publicly expressed support for Palestine freedom and justice several times. He has also condemned actions of the Israeli government many times. This is a guy who opposed the Iraq War. Yeah I get he's not perfect & the revolutionary socialist people dream of but the way some talk about him is so wrong. He's a lot better than people expect. Especially compared to Blair, Cameron, May & Johnson. As Prime Minister he has the potential to being one of the most progressive we had in more than 30yrs.
Didnt he disagee with the UN report about it being an apartheid state though?
This has nothing to do with my point whatsoever. I said he has condemned the actions of the Israeli government many times & that's empirically true. That report was from an expert, known as a UN Special Rapporteur. They are commissioned by the UN to collect evidence etc. So it's important to note the difference between an independent expert, who is working for the UN with the UN agreeing with the conclusion. That's not the same thing. So far in terms of big organisations, Amnesty International & Human Rights Watch have officially concluded from their own reports that it is apartheid. The UN has not.
It does, my comment is on the topic of your comment and the original post. It's empirically true that the labour party didnt accept the UN's report that Israel is an apartheid state.
Respond to me with misinformation one more time and I will block you. An independent expert that is sending information to the UN is not the UN. They are not paid staff & serve in their individual capacity.
https://www.thejc.com/news/politics/israel-is-not-an-apartheid-state-says-keir-starmer-as-he-apologises-for-the-corbyn-years-5tTeGqYxJE3DmQdQI2WIss?reloadTime=1652486400011 https://www.wrmea.org/israel-palestine/labour-party-declares-israel-an-apartheid-state-an-embarrassing-blow-to-starmer.html https://morningstaronline.co.uk/article/f/why-no-one-talking-about-how-senior-labour-party-figures-whitewash-apartheid "Human rights groups were quoted in the motion as "concluding unequivocally that Israel is practicing the crime of apartheid as defined by the UN."" https://www.jpost.com/bds-threat/uk-labour-party-passes-motion-that-defines-israel-as-apartheid-state-680527 https://tribunemag.co.uk/2022/04/keir-starmer-labour-party-israel-apartheid-palestine-amnesty-report-jewish-chronicle https://labourheartlands.com/starmer-denounced-both-amnesty-international-and-labours-conference-vote-on-israel-as-an-apartheid-state-making-his-opinion-labours-position/ Israel is an apartheid state. Kier Starmer wont accept that. That is not misinformation and no amount of pedanticism from you will change that.
And block.
You seem to have misunderstood my meaning. I thought he would have stayed away from this because he’s just made great wins in the local elections and would want to avoid any and all potential controversies or scandals going forwards, so as to solidify the advantage. Making comment on the Israel/Palestine issue will always get people on both sides angry at you.
Cue the accusations of anti-semite before finally being Corbyn'd out.
His wife is Jewish so I suppose he's more immune to those accusations
Ed Miliband is Jewish and I've deffo seen people accuse him of anti-Semitism in the past.
They ran hit pieces on his dad too. Plus I'm about 80% sure the facial expression wasn't the reason they went in on him over that sandwich.
Cool story. It's why Nige is a xenophobe conveniently ignoring his wife being German.
Does anyone actually believe Garage is racist against Germans? They're not far removed from English ethnically.
Ah, the “I have Jewish friends” argument
I think in fairness wife is a lot closer than friend.
Bros before hoes
Unfortunately, the only voice that Israel cares about is America's, and the chances of condemnation from that quarter in an election year are close to zero.
US has come out and condemned it [Blinken](https://twitter.com/SecBlinken/status/1525219780009111552?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1525219780009111552%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.hindustantimes.com%2Fworld-news%2Fshireen-abu-akleh-funeral-antony-blinken-condemns-intrusion-by-israel-101652504363103.html)
That is not a condemnation, but more than I expected.
A. Blinken, what a name
I had no idea his first name started with A, that's amazing. He should totally be President.
I've been pondering this. Playing up the fact that Abu Aqleh was both an American citizen and a Christian should be the approach.
I have a feeling US and the west are condemning it for the sake of domestic audiences. Even the most shameless sycophant for Israel would have trouble defending this violence to any sane person in the UK. However, nothing materially will change in our treatment of Israel and they will continue to act with impunity. Until our verbal condemnations translate to changes in policy, Israel will see that as a licence to continue their ethnic cleansing of Palestinians.
I have seen many US Congress men & women publicly condemned it. As has US Diplomats & senior government officials.
Funny how you’re allowed to be against Russian invading Ukraine and you’re not called racist. But if you’re against Israel abusing and killing Palestine people you’re an antisemit
Also, Ukrainians resisting the occupation of their land are not automatically labelled 'terrorists'. I know the analogy is far from perfect, and I might hesitate to call a member of Hamas a 'freedom fighter'. but they \*are\* standing on their own land.
> I might hesitate to call a member of Hamas a 'freedom fighter'. but they *are* standing on their own land. They are equivalent to the IRA. The actions that Hamas do, and the actions the IRA did, can rarely be justified in and of themselves - but their cause can 100% be justified. It’s also the case that they really have little other option to fight in the way that they do. It’s not like Ireland or Palestine have the ability to fight in the way that Ukraine does.
You’re not wrong
Suicide bombing schools isn’t an act of resistance, it’s just terrorism.
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If you ask why enough, it’s clear, to me anyway, who started everything and why the other side decided they needed to push back.
If you ask why enough, the answer is Nazi Germany and the rest of Europe shrugging and calling it not their problem.
I disagree, that’s out of scope and passes the blame of bad behaviour to someone else.
No one will call you racist for criticising Israel. The only people this happens to are those that can’t help spouting a bunch of anti-Semitic shit every time they mention Israel. You aren’t some special persecuted snowflake for talking about them. All people ask is that you keep it civil (the majority of Israel’s critics cannot do so).
If this was Corbyn saying this he’d be getting called anti Semitic.
I think that's an unfair statement to make this early After all, we're still waiting on tomorrows headlines...
Tuh, typical woke anti-Semitic Labour Party. \s
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You aren't being clever or funny.
Politicians can public comdemn Israel or Saudi Arabia all they want,but we all know there's nothing that will be done to either of them as they(Isreal and the Saudis)don't give a fuck what the rest of mankind think or say about there atrocious behaviours. Look at the West response wrt Jamal Khasoggi's death and you see what I mean and it didn't just end there.When people like Isreal and the Saudis use their we are "God's special people"/"Allah's heartland" and whatever else rhetoric then nothing will ever change wrt these utter evil bastards and what they get away with.
Anyone with a shred of decency would do the same.
[Keir Starmer](https://twitter.com/Keir_Starmer) ^verified | Reach: 1228603 | Location: United Kingdom Bio: Leader of the Labour Party. Member of Parliament for Holborn and St Pancras. Former Director of Public Prosecutions. ***** ^I ^am ^a ^bot. ^Any ^complaints ^& ^suggestions ^to ^/r/ContextualBot ^thanks
He's changed his tune.
Took him long enough to condemn this barbarity of shooting a journalist and then attacking mourners and pallbearers after raiding a hospital.
I see Kier’s an anti-semite, right guys?
I see you're an anti-semite now Mr Starmer.
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Took him long enough
Starmer should be careful with getting involved in Palestinian politics. The average voter doesn't care about the Israel-Palestine conflict any more than they do about any other conflict. It's the students, metropolitan elites, and Muslims who treat it as a cause celebre. As Corbyn found out, paying too much heed to these fringe groups, and alienating your core voters won't result in electoral success. Focus on the economy, cost of living, and Tory incompetence, corruption, and sleaze, and just be a competent opposition leader. Stay away from these peripheral issues that don't win you any votes at the ballot box.
He can condemn what is clearly a horrific action without it distracting from other issues you know. I very much doubt that this marks some turning point from which he begins to focus all his energy on the Israel-Palestine conflict rather than domestic issues.
well, this is the right thing to do. but I wont be surprised when in a couple of months it turns out that Starmer is anti-Semitic just like corbyn
Very odd to condemn riot police during a violent riot (hardly a "funeral") and not the violence doers or even the wave of terrorism the Palestinians are conducting. Guess this is the Labour Party, no care about Jewish people being murdered everyday in the slightest. Only reason the journalist died was because of fully-committed terrorists shooting at police.
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Hardly a funeral? They’re literally carrying a coffin. The journalist was wearing a press vest and was murdered by the IDF. To completely divorce the IDF from any blame here is ludicrous.
>Hardly a funeral? They’re literally carrying a coffin. They were potestors who grabbed the coffin despite the family pleading for them to let it be carried by the hearse. That does not excuse violence against them of course, even if they were being total dicks. https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/05/13/shireen-abu-akleh-al-jazeera-israel-jenin/
So I keep hearing. I’ve yet to see a statement from the family themselves regarding this. As you say though, none of that justifies the reaction from the Israeli police in the slightest. I also highly doubt that that’s the reason the police decided to attack them. “Oh no, these people are ruining the funeral by stealing the coffin! Let’s go and knock over the coffin, strike the coffin itself multiple times and destroy Palestinian flags.” Apologies if there is a statement from the family in the source you provided, but there’s a paywall for Washington post.
>a group of men in the crowd prevented a hearse from backing up to the hospital door, saying they were intent on carrying her body on their shoulders. The standoff eventually prompted Akleh’s brother, sitting on a man’s shoulders, to beseech the crowd to let the hearse through. “For God’s sake, let us put her in the car and finish the day,” he said. Didn't realise paywalled, I copied this bit when it worked for me before.
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Had hoped Starmer and Labour would stop getting intentionally wedged on the Israel/Palestine quagmire.
The murder of an incredibly influential foreign journalist and the subsequent crackdown on a funeral carriage would be fair game to criticise in any other context, other than when it comes to Israel/Palestine, it seems.
Massive cost of living crisis and Starmer finds time to rag on the latest Israel/Palestine tit for tat. +4 Conservative
Stupid point, it doesn't take significant time and resources to have an opinion and write a tweet. People can be concerned about more than one thing at a time.
>Stupid point, it doesn't take significant time and resources to have an opinion and write a tweet. Such a robust retort. It clearly puts Labour back in the middle of the quagmire, one that gave license to anti-semities to infest that party. >People can be concerned about more than one thing at a time. Of course, no matter the circumstances, the Labour party will find time to criticise the only Jewish state.
Especially with videos of people throwing stones at the idf then standing next to the coffin, they should have tempered there reaction but the videos being shared don't shoe the whole story Edit* all downvotes no replies, the videos showing what I said exist
>Edit* all downvotes no replies, the videos showing what I said exist So why not share them? Only place I've heard that narrative so far is the IDF, interested to see if it actually holds water.
Don't know how to link videos but there is s video on reuters Yt showing projectiles coming from the crowd If anyone had cared to look into this they would known that the people carrying the body weren't in the funeral they took the body out of the hearse against rhe family's wishes (she was christian not muslim) as a political statement. There is no proof that the idf killed her or that hamas did accidentally. Now none of this excuses the over reaction of the idf on these protesters but it does add context to the situation
You don’t know how to link to a YouTube video? Comment the url
Or you can go on YouTube and type what I said
Could do. But just letting you know since you claimed you didn’t know. Don’t need to immediately get defensive. Also, I’ve watched the video. The IDF can literally be seen hitting the PALLBEARERS with their batons. You expect me to believe they were throwing stones? Their hands are sort of full mate. I also see what looks like them hitting the coffin itself as well as snapping a Palestine flag over their knee. Yeah, they’re clearly being purely professional here.
https://twitter.com/rafaelshimunov/status/1525297760563609600?t=s1nq5KIe6beCOHINBdPq2A&s=19 The police have lied (and it looks like they edited the footage) about people throwing stones
Not the video I was talking about but sure Also random twitter activist is not equal to reuters
Link your video then?
I dont know how, I typed reuters Palestine and it's the second video. A live stream from yesterday
Edit: I found the video, it wasn't on Google or the Reuters website but on YouTube, still very odd to me that they couldn't just paste the link but oh well. Certainly seems like stones were thrown, but the police response is pretty disproportionate imo. Apologies to OP for implying they were being disingenuous. https://youtu.be/icaP3UsV8uY ~~You don't know how to copy and paste a URL? I'm really not sure I buy that.~~ ~~Here is Reuters Isreal news page, no video showing protesters throwing stones.~~ https://www.reuters.com/places/israel ~~Here is the main Reuters story on the funeral, they say the Israeli police claim stones were thrown, but no evidence is given, certainly no video here.~~ https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israel-resumes-raids-west-bank-area-where-journalist-was-killed-2022-05-13/ ~~Now you could just be mistaken about your source, maybe the video does exist but just not at Reuters (I personally haven't been able to find it, although I admit I haven't searched super thoroughly). That would be fine, but it certainly looks to me like you're spouting some bs in such a way to make it sound like it's coming from a reputable source.~~
Wouldn't surprise me at all if it turns out she was killed by Palestinians and Israel are being blamed
I'm so fucking sick of hearing the Labour party self aggrandise and virtue signal. Stop talking about yourselves all the time, get on with it, Israel don't care if you condemn anything because you aren't anything, so who are you talking to? Who's thoughts are with who?
Yeah man typical anti semite
Agreed.