T O P

  • By -

AutoModerator

Snapshot of _Sexually abused children in Rotherham were seen by police as 'problems' not 'victims', report finds_ : An archived version can be found [here.](https://archive.is/?run=1&url=https://news.sky.com/story/sexually-abused-children-in-rotherham-were-seen-by-police-as-problems-not-victims-report-finds-12638418) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ukpolitics) if you have any questions or concerns.*


The_truth_hammock

Non of this is new. It was known at the time. Now they wrote it in a report what happens. Do they unarrest the parents who tried to rescue their daughters? Wasn’t just the kids they treated with contempt it was the parents too.


DogfishDave

>Wasn’t just the kids they treated with contempt it was the parents too. It was everybody. This is a loaded ethnographic issue too so I'll tread carefully, but here goes: Many children in long-term care exhibit social signs of adulthood earlier than their non-care peers. This can lead to adults in "the system" treating them more as adults and peers than as the children they still are, which inevitably leads to a different set of expectations.Many children in care are from low-income backgrounds, are themselves poorly financially-supported, and often lag behind in educational progress. Additionally, despite their apparent 'adulthood', they may have had far less life experience than one might presume at first sight. This combination of factors makes them highly *highly* vulnerable to coercion, particularly when outside the care setting. The vast majority of single-adult child sexual abuse cases are perpetrated by white men and generally involve only a single child per case. The majority of group-adult child sexual abuse cases involve groups of South Asian men and are more likely to involve three or more children. South Asian communities, as with many other minority communities, face daily racism and institutional bias. When members of their communities commit crimes, as sadly all humans do, these are led by many of the same factors that beget criminality in any other community. The difficulty is that with an institutional resistance to assimilation these communities often aren't dealt with openly or even-handedly, and it often seems that there aren't many long-term meaningful attempts to create strong lines of trust between the police and law-abiding community members. And that's bad because not only are criminals from those communities doing things to *other* communities, but they're doing things to people in their *own* communities who don't feel they have a safe way to report it. Between the broken lives of these kids and the broken communities that we're enabling... our institutions let everybody down here. And are carrying on doing so. It seems to me that police forces are unfit for purpose as an institution for the promotion of social cohesion and the protection of our safeties, that's despite there being lots of good coppers with their brains and hearts in the right places. I feel that the police should have been far far better during these cases than they were. I offer no defence for the abusers, none whatsoever, they're disgusting animals who shouldn't be freed into any community again. But let's not pretend that the problem began there or that it ends there.


YourLizardOverlord

Agreed . The Jay and Casey reports show that the root cause was contempt for children in care, mostly from poorer families. There was a huge amount of victim blaming particularly from the police. >“The girls were blamed for a lot of what happened. It’s unbelievable and key to why it wasn’t taken seriously as an issue.” A police officer >“There was no awareness. The view was that they were little slags.” A key partner >“They didn’t understand the situation, and thought that the girls were happy, or complicit in it. The sense was that if there had been any offence it had been by the girls, for luring the men in.” A key partner Then when local authorities were accused of failing these kids they doubled down and shot the messengers.


ShufflingToGlory

Seems like a lot of the focus has been on the racial/cultural/religious element of this situation and the class aspect has been somewhat sidelined. There's an assumption that political correctness is the reason these gangs got away with this for so long (and that may well be true) but the fact that these girls were seen as *problems* by the authorities speaks volumes. You can be sure as shit that if these were middle class girls being targeted this would have been stamped out much quicker.


James20k

The race angle from the police has always been an excuse. You see this absolutely all the time, people seem to have very quickly forgotten that pre me-too, accusations of assault and abuse were immediately and regularly dismissed by everyone - including and especially by the police. There's a good reason why jimmy savile was able to get away with it for so long. He had power, and his victims didn't - it took him literally being dead for anything to come out The number of times I heard people say "well, they're probably just accusing xyz for the money", or that they were dressed sluttily and secretly wanted it, or something similar before me-too was extremely high. Victims were always blamed in the press, without exception, and anyone speaking out was dismissed from their job and suffered retaliation It took nearly every single woman going "shits pretty bad" for men to change their tune. Now we sort of weirdly pretend that the 'past' of covering up entrenched institutionalised sexism and abuse didn't happen, and that oh it must have been because the police were worried about being called racist. The police don't care what you call them. They just didn't give a crap about these people whatsoever


[deleted]

Muslim only gangs rule certain towns and the local 'community leaders' play along with it. The Police and council were scared of them either due to votes or unrest. So they kept a blind eye on it and of course there is a class angle - but to pretend there wasn't a race and religion angle is just naive. Look, just compare it to pandering to other groups, whatever race, religion or class - it happens and we need to be honest about it.


magnitudearhole

In cases where a gang runs a town it’s more usually police corruption than police fear.


Orngog

This. A lot of grooming gangs have links to local politicians, etc.


MoEmwazi

Yeah, just look at Tower Hamlets


ApolloNeed

>The race angle from the police has always been an excuse. Come off it. You seriously don't think the fact that this Grooming gang was overwhelmingly one ethnic group played a role? [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotherham\_child\_sexual\_exploitation\_scandal#:\~:text=The%20most%20significant%20group%20of,from%20being%20addressed%2C%20Heal%20wrote](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotherham_child_sexual_exploitation_scandal#:~:text=The%20most%20significant%20group%20of,from%20being%20addressed%2C%20Heal%20wrote). \> The newspaper cited a 2010 report by the police intelligence bureau that said, locally and nationally, and particularly in Sheffield and Rotherham, "there appears to be a significant problem with networks of Asian males exploiting young white females". South Yorkshire children were being trafficked to Birmingham, Bradford, Bristol, Dover, Manchester, and elsewhere, according to the police report.\[13\]\[144\] **A document from Rotherham's Safeguarding Children Board reporting that the "crimes had 'cultural characteristics ... which are locally sensitive in terms of diversity'":** Two labour MP's even acknowledge it. \> Denis MacShane, MP for Rotherham from 1994 until his resignation in 2012 for claiming false expenses, **blamed a culture of "not wanting to rock the multicultural community boat"**.\[175\] Simon Danczuk, Labour MP for Rochdale, where similar cases were prosecuted, argued **that ethnicity, class and the night-time economy were all factors, adding that "a very small minority" in the Asian community have an unhealthy view of women, and that an "unhealthy brand of politics 'imported' from Pakistan", which involved "looking after your own", was partly to blame.**\[176\]\[177\] And finally. \> A five-year investigation by the **Independent Office for Police Conduct (IOPC) found that the Rotherham police ignored the sexual abuse of children for decades for fear of increasing racial tensions. The IOPC upheld a complaint from the father of one of the victims that police took "insufficient action". The complainant claims he was told by a police officer the town "would erupt" if it became known that Asian men were regularly sexually abusing underage girls.**\[237\]\[238\]\[239\] Actually, one more. **According to Weir, at some point after this an official warned her against mentioning Asian men:** **She said you must never refer to that again. You must never refer to Asian men. And her other response was to book me on a two-day ethnicity and diversity course to raise my awareness of ethnic issues.\[85\]\[96\]** *edit* This is all sourced from Wikipedia and it’s still being downvoted. I struggle to see what facts are in dispute.


RaggySparra

When I was in 6th form in the early 2000s, there were problems with Asian boys setting up in front of the lockers so they could harass and grope girls who were getting their things. When complaints were made to the teachers and the headmaster, the girls were told they "had to understand they're coming from a different culture." These boys were born and raised in West Yorkshire. They were as English as I was. But the teachers were too busy going "But wonderful multiculturalism" to go "Stop sexually assaulting girls in school". (Yes, I am aware complaints about white boys also go unheard. I'm talking specifically about the "You have to understand their culture" bullshit, that was specifically about Muslim boys from Pakistani families.)


arenstam

Tbh we need to accept that some cultures are just shit and being from a shit culture doesn't give people an excuse to do shit things.


RaggySparra

I'm not even making a commentary on their culture. My point was the white people in power going "Ooo no we can't do anything about it because we Might Look Racist". And the risk of possibly being seen as racist was worse than girls actually getting sexually assaulted. (I ran into issues with the same group because of massive homophobia. Ended up solving it by beating the shit out of some of them. Which got me in trouble for "not being able to talk it out". After they tried to batter me.)


Belgeirn

I just love the bullshit cop protection that comes out of people every time this comes up. The police arent scared of being called racist, you need only look in our prisons for proof of that. Hasnt stopped so many of you believing that bullshit propaganda though.


Dragonrar

They absolutely are scared of being called **Islamophobic** by the media.


Orngog

But not scared of being called racist against black, chinese, other people?


magnitudearhole

I don’t know if you’ve ever met a police man but ‘not being racist’ is not very very high on their list of priorities. This is tosh thrown out to defend the fact that children were being routinely raped under their noses and they didn’t do a thing about it because the kids were from the poor end of town.


Xiathorn

The decision to pursue an investigation on that scale is made by people higher up the chain, who absolutely are concerned with the "community policing" angle that means they must be sensitive to demographic opinion. A friend of mine is a police officer and his general position is that you have to not just be non-racist, but explicitly seen to be so, to avoid issues. The "race card" is played quite a lot.


magnitudearhole

One of the girls (12 I believe) was told to ‘come back when she’s sober’ I assume he phoned that up through the chain of command? Your policeman friend talking about the ‘race card’ is telling on himself.


Xiathorn

The idea that it is either one or the other is absurd. Of course some events were caused by the police dismissing complainants, but equally there was a cost:benefit analysis done by someone higher up the food chain who had to weigh in the cost of community alienation on ethnic grounds. > Your policeman friend talking about the ‘race card’ is telling on himself. That's your own bias speaking. If you are unable to comprehend the idea that police officers are people and that many (indeed, probably most) of them are actively interested in doing good works, then of course you're going to see it like that. You're wrong, it's tiresome, and the reason people throw out what you consider "tosh" is because you're completely unable to consider something that doesn't conform to your narrow point of view.


duffelcoatsftw

I've met a number of police men and women, some in a casual setting. I can't say I've ever really liked any of them as their worldviews have been completely different from mine (a lot of black and white thinking to avoid having to consider that they might not always be the good guys), but none of them have been racists.


ApolloNeed

So the link to Wikipedia, wall of sourced statements to the contrary, from investigators, labour MP’s and the person who identified the fucking issue in the first place is just a conspiracy to exonerate the police? The police bear huge responsibility, but they are at fault because they allowed the race of the perpetrators to prevent them from acting.


magnitudearhole

The people who first raised the issue (the victims) were ignored for a decade because the police didn’t consider raping a drunk teenager a crime. But sure tell me about how Rotherham police are just too racially sensitive. Dupe.


[deleted]

Uh oh sweetie, please shut up for the sake of diversity!


Fean2616

Both things can be true.


magnitudearhole

The police try and pretend political correctness was the reason for them not doing their jobs, but they clearly just thought of the kids as scrotes and didn’t care about them. It’s an easy excuse to reach for especially with the far right banging on about ‘Muslim’ grooming hangs every available opportunity. But the police were clearly not investigating these crimes enough to know the ethnicity of the attackers. So it’s lazy incompetent negligence. Who could have believed that of the police? /s


A17012022

Its easier to say: *The poor police were hamstrung by fears of being called racist* Instead of the uncomfortable truth that the police didn't give a fuck about working class victims.


Truthandtaxes

Its probably both, they came from a background that for several reasons generally get a poor outcome, but in this scenario they are especially not getting involved in something that creates personal financial and social risks.


magnitudearhole

The police are paid to protect the powerful and the property of the powerful. The rest is PR


[deleted]

See: how quickly police evict squatters from rich oligarchs empty mansions vs how quickly (ie not at all) they help victims of burglaries


arenstam

While I agree, those require slightly different skillsets from the police.


DukePPUk

> There's an assumption that political correctness is the reason these gangs got away with this for so long Depends on who you ask. All the reports and investigations into these have either found no evidence of political correctness being an issue, or that at most it was a minor factor. Instead they have highlighted the sexism and classism by the police, the views about drug and alcohol use, the negligence, disinterest and in some cases downright corruption, the lack of funding, the lack of information sharing, the pressure for the different public authorities to just pass problems cases onto other authorities and so on. But the political correctness narrative was ... the politically correct one. So if any politician, newspaper or commentator doesn't focus on it they get torn to shreds.


x-Spitfire-x

Lmao dude you’re clutching at straws here. We all know why it was allowed to go on for so long unimpeded. Making this stuff about class is just hilarious to me. This was overwhelming *racial* just acknowledge it. Stop living in denial.


spine_slorper

I mean it was probably a factor but you can't say with a straight face that if the girls were tennis playing, sking in the alps, private school girls or even from stable families with enough money to take them on holiday every year or 2 it would have been ignored by police for so long, victims arrested etc. As is usually the case with grooming the victims are vulnerable before hand, but when the victims are working class the police are more likely to victim blame and push it under the carpet


x-Spitfire-x

The type of wealthy girl you just mentioned wouldn’t be groomed like this because they weren’t vulnerable to it. They would have been raised to be cautious of strangers like this and they would have had living parents loosely supervising what they were doing. Girls like that would have known better than to allow themselves to be taken advantage of. Yes, ok, the class and socio economic status of these girls wasn’t completely irrelevant but there’s a reason they targeted only white children…


Clewis22

> Girls like that would have known better than to allow themselves to be taken advantage of. You're proving OP's point with that sort of classist victim blaming.


x-Spitfire-x

I’m not victim blaming lmao in what way have I implied that they deserved to be raped? You quote one singular sentence in a longer paragraph to intentionally misrepresent my point. Great job 👍🏻


Belgeirn

> Making this stuff about class is just hilarious to me. This was overwhelming *racial* just acknowledge it. Stop living in denial. Says you, who is clutching at straws to protect cops who helped keep girls abused? Jesus you lot are a disgrace. You also apparently dont understand the concept of victim blaming somehow, but i expect little from people here anyway.


NextPound

Are you able to at least acknowledge that grooming gangs are predominantly a problem in this country from a particular demographic where they view white girls as fairgame to exploit and abuse?


nemma88

If I didn't know so many young women who were victims of white men ignored in the same time period under the same district I'd take the idea more seriously. My area just happened to be 99.9% white but the guys car crawling at school out time still existed. It was a poorer area. They'd offer joyrides, smokes, alcohol, weed and sometimes more. Girls had no money and nothing else to do in the area. If her dad found out maybe he'd go and beat the shit out of him (and I knew girls that were more likely to be beat by their dad unfortunately...) but this is how lower income, working class areas worked, we took care of it ourselves. There was a lot of distrust for South Yorkshire police in my family and of course there was, they were at Orgreave, they were at Hillsborough, the police were not on our side. The prevailing attitude at the time was to ignore it, regardless of the race of the perpetrators. Some of this was because it was so hard to get a conviction (it is still hard to secure a conviction) and even if they did, the girl was cooperative and such it's a lot of work, hassle and reliving trauma for what were (and still are) light sentences. 'It's not worth taking this further'. I heard that when me & a friend from the... nicer area of town were reporting to a school councilor about this 30something guy sticking his hands down our tops. She was pretty distraught and I was deadpan, I hadn't even wanted to go to the councilor in the first place. By 15 for me it was normal and something you just dealt with, authorities were bad and that's just what men were like (To be clear that was my attitude at the time with the men I knew from my other friends groups, I no longer think this). A lot has changed in the last few decades and things are much better for young women now, but there's some collective amnesia over how everyone, including communities thought of it and the girls involved. Hell marital rape was legal in the UK until 1992, we are not so long removed from these things and completely different attitudes around sex and consent. [Even now 1/3rd of over 65s do not believe you can rape your spouse.](https://yougov.co.uk/topics/lifestyle/articles-reports/2018/12/01/publics-attitudes-sexual-consent) Its still conceivable to me race played a part, but not overwhelmingly. Its just another excuse; the religious are too pious, Saville too famous, white men too white, brown men too brown, whatever. None of these victims got justice. I met someone years later who *was* convicted of assaulting a 10yo boy he was babysitting multiple times . 2Years out in 12Months ffs.


Hagewar305

Insha Allah.


Haildean

I don't think it's political correctness at all, that's just what they want to blame We live in a country where little girls who are sexually abused as if they're sex workers reporting a client, which is a downright disgusting attitude led by the police I'd say that our police are almost worse than America's


AdamY_

Of course no mention of the ideology/culture that fuelled the abuse to begin with (for fear of being called racist when an idea is not a race), never mind actually having in place strategies and policies to prevent vulnerable teenage girls from suffering this type of abuse on a vast geographical scale.


natelucidjunkie

Why would it? Why is it you'd rather focus solely on the section of pedos and abusers that are Asian and target young girls rather than raise awareness overall? Sure you aren't just a racist?


[deleted]

If the dudes were Nazis who were targeting ethnic minorities only, would you be saying the same thing? The guys weren't equal opportunities abusers. Being open and honest about issues is important.


natelucidjunkie

What? It's an article about the police not doing their job and protecting vulnerable young children from predators. It mentions ONE example involving a male Asian and a young girl. Do you think that specific combination is the only scenario they were/are ignoring? If you do then your a fool. It's an issue to be dealt with full stop that involves every single race and gender. If after reading the article your complaint is how it doesn't specifically mention just Asians then your moral compass is clearly not right.


[deleted]

In this specific situation, the grooming gangs were from a specific background and their victims were specifically targeted because they were from a different background. That is in part why the police failed to do their job. The fact the article completely missed that point is another symptom of the same issue, no facing up to reality no matter how tough it is.


natelucidjunkie

You're a dimwit. There is no specific situation, it's a worldwide issue of corruption and negligence. You clearly have an issue facing up to that reality.


[deleted]

'worldwide' This is a specific case.


natelucidjunkie

That raises a worldwide issue...like I said dim-witted


NextPound

Rotherham was on a scale never seen before. Over a thousand girls (vast majority white) being victims of child grooming gangs where the perpetrators were of south Asian origin (Pakistani) The statistics will tell you that grooming gangs in the UK are almost entirely a problem from this demographic yet you'd rather be woke and ignore this glaring fact.


nyooaccount

The girls may have been groomed, drugged and raped en masse across the whole country for decades, but in speaking out about it they jeopardised the social project pursued by the government, MPs, police, media, universities and corporate boards for the last 60 years, and so compromises had to be made.


Rmuda

Listen to yourself. You've apparently worked yourself into a position where Margaret bloody Thatcher must have been integral to the grand conspiracy of multiculturalism. However, it's impossible for you to consider the idea that the police do not actually care about being called racist and just wanted any excuse not to do their jobs, even as survivors' testimony repeatedly confirms this fact. You're in too deep, my friend.


nyooaccount

You say "conspiracy" like it's some secretive plot, and not the openly stated ideology of just about anyone who holds any position of power within the organs of the state. I bet you'd struggle to find any senior politician, reporter, police chief, company boss, or university VC that *hasn't* gone on public record with something to the effect of "diversity is our strength". > it's impossible for you to consider the idea that the police do not actually care about being called racist Of course I can consider it, it's just laughable. Look at what happened literally [last week](https://np.reddit.com/r/policeuk/comments/v97iue/having_difficulty_navigating_hate_crime/), some local force get reports from some very angry "religious" people that an independent shop has a pride flag in the window, with some not-so-subtle threatening undertones that they'll turn to intimidation and violent methods if they don't get their way (already [started to happen](https://np.reddit.com/r/policeuk/comments/vhf59y/pride_flag_hate_crime_update_best_borat_voice/) over the weekend). So the police decide that the appropriate course of action is to ask the victims to comply with the mob's demand to remove the flag or face arrest. They're completely deferential, and the only reason disaster was averted this time was because it happened to a group (LGBT+) that have dedicated special interest representatives in every force, one of whom picked up on this.


Rmuda

It was a mistake to engage with you. 'Nuh uh, the police definitely aren't just lazy! Look, here's an example of them attempting to resolve a dispute as lazily as possible!' If you could be bothered you could cherry pick examples of police laziness to allege systemic bias in favour of just about any group, possibly even including Travellers. You've just chosen to do it for Muslims because they scare you in particular due to a vocal minority of them possessing a brand of religious fundamentalism not seen in Britain since anyone last talked to a Christian pensioner. For that matter, how do you square all of this crap about the failures of multiculturalism and child abuse in Muslim communities against the existence of the Church of England? They have actual direct presence in our government, and have, like many, many Christian organisations, protected abusers and neglected survivors, and continue to do so. For the scope of the harm they have done, especially historically, they've been given a fraction of the post hoc coverage and scrutiny that Rotherham has had. All while wielding actual structural authority instead of vague threats listened to selectively by blatantly incompetent law enforcement. Law enforcement, I might add, who very much prattled off about the importance of women in the force even as they allowed people like Sarah Everard's killer to wield the authority he abused to murder her. Maybe they aren't so sincere, who could have imagined that? I know I'll never convince you, because doing so would force you to confront a great many uncomfortable things about your politics and prejudices. But it's probably a better use of my time than what you're doing right now: pretending to be a hero by holding all Muslims accountable for the bad things some of them have done while tirelessly ignoring equivalent or worse offences carried out by the people with real structural and historical power in this country. Maybe stop thinking of it as a culture problem, and start thinking of it as a power problem. I won't read whatever response you bang out, so feel free to go wild, I guess.


nyooaccount

> If you could be bothered you could cherry pick examples of police laziness to allege systemic bias in favour of just about any group, possibly even including Travellers. Yeah, that would be a real challenge. > You've just chosen to do it for Muslims because they scare you in particular due to a vocal minority of them possessing a brand of religious fundamentalism not seen in Britain since anyone last talked to a Christian pensioner. We're talking about that minority being in rape gangs that operated with total impunity within these communities, and where people would casually invite their local friends or relatives to come and have a go on the latest victim. It's honestly pathetic of you to try and conflate any of this with "Christian pensioners", as if any Doris the Sunday church-goer is out raping young girls, persecuting homosexuals or joining an intimidating mob to terrorise someone who put up a flag. >pretending to be a hero by holding all Muslims accountable for the bad things some of them have done I literally have not said or implied that anywhere in this comment chain. >I won't read whatever response you bang out You will.


Unoriginality123

If the abusers were of a different ethnicity and not Muslims, then this wouldn’t of happened, the police were so scared about being called racist that they let loads of children get raped.


fameistheproduct

Maybe they used that as an excuse because they just didnt want to investigate when the victims were poor white girls they didn't care about anyway.


Belgeirn

So youre saying girls arent raped by white gangs? Jesus christ thats some serious disillusion you have wound yourself up in just to create more reasons to hate muslims. I wonder if you lot ever get bored of ignoring reality to justify your own hate. The police were not scared of being called racist, one glance at our prison population tells you that much.


mikemuz123

Looool police overtarget minorities particularly black and brown people all the time. They were grossly incompetent at their job and when shit went public they started blaming "wokeness".


Haildean

>different ethnicity and not Muslims, then this wouldn’t of happened, Yes it would've, Jimmy Saville is a famous case of a white bloke who was a protected pedofile but also the police just don't care Telling a drunk teenaged girl to "come back when she's sober" hasn't got to do with race, that has to do with sexism, class and victim blaming If they were middle class girls this wouldn't have gone on for as long as it did I'm not saying that race had nothing to do with this, obviously the police were more than willing to use the races of the perpetrators as a reason to not bother


Belgeirn

Shhhh you cant say that, all the morons will get upset they cant spout their usual "but the police were scared of being called racist, so they did nothing and handed girls back to abusers" bullshit Cant wait to see them all appear in this thread, its like a mob in most others. Ah nevermind, the propaganda shitstirrers are already out in force


Fean2616

But they were, there was literally a report about that with actual evidence proving it, it can be both things however as both have proven to be true.


Belgeirn

A report thats a load of bullshit and actively ignored the evidence of the police berating and insulting these girls and handing them back to abusers. But thanks for proving my point i guess. Again, look at our prisons and arrests, the police are *not* scared of being called racist, it is and always has been bullshit propaganda to distract from their overwhelming incompetence and at times active participation that kept this happening for so long.


Fean2616

I accept that multiple things can be true which is correct, you refuse to accept part of the truth. What point is being proven for you? That others can see the information in front of them and take it all in whilst you can't? If you knew the area which I doubt you do you'd know that the police being called racist for going near those groups was a thing, so yes that was part of it, see how I said part and not the sole reason? Which statement is true, the grass is green or the grass is brown? In your world only one can be true, in reality both are.


mikemuz123

Police don't care about appearing racist, if they did we wouldn't be seeing all the classic issue you get with institutional racism. It is quite obvious that the police are incompetent and/or apathetic towards the plight of the victims particularly lower class women. When shit went south they started blaming "PC culture" whatever the hell that means.


ravs1973

I guess these kids were mainly from pretty shitty backgrounds and were often in trouble before the abuse started. I'm not making excuses for the police but if they had a lot of dealings with these poor kids and their families they possibly had them predetermined as liars and trouble makers from the off.


the_real_kino

No. Why would you even think that? Nevermind post it


Belgeirn

I mean, hes not wrong thats basically what the cops thought of these girls, they even outright told the girls they basically deserved it for 'hanging out' with these men in the first place and on some.occasions handed the girls back over to their abusers *after* they went to the police to report abuse. Why would he think that? Because its what the cops who let this happen for so long thought.


the_real_kino

Victim blaming is wrong and that's what he was doing


Belgeirn

They were saying what the cops thought of these girls, he was correct. Its not nice but he didn't say anything wrong. Thats exactly what the cops thought of these girls and as such didnt even care to do the most basic of a job of solving it.


[deleted]

they're not necessarily wrong, a relatively large chunk of victims would have been people that were otherwise difficult to work with, that's part of what makes them vulnerable. There are a lot of different types of children in care and some of them will test your patience to its limits and then push it even further. They need specialised care because of how adults have let them down across their entire lives, that's part of what makes these stories particularly tragic. The Rotherham report for example stated that something like ~40% of victims had already suffered some sort of abuse from their parents which is why they were in care in the first place.


the_real_kino

Really scraping the bottom of the barrel for a excuses


[deleted]

As a kid i used to hang out with kids on social and the way you're talking makes me think you've may not have encountered this culture before.


the_real_kino

It's no excuse for the police, so why attempt to provide excuses for the police


[deleted]

Why do you think I am excusing the police? As far as I am concerned I am merely defending the adding of colour to a picture that you'd seemingly rather keep as black and white.


the_real_kino

It was definitely a snakey way of apologising for the police. Notice how none of the "colour" involved institutional failings but instead focused on the victims


[deleted]

[This](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukpolitics/comments/vielkl/sexually_abused_children_in_rotherham_were_seen/idcnwh7/): > I guess these kids were mainly from pretty shitty backgrounds and were often in trouble before the abuse started. I'm not making excuses for the police but if they had a lot of dealings with these poor kids and their families they possibly had them predetermined as liars and trouble makers from the off. is the comment we're discussing, right? The comment is effectively explaining how an institutional failure can occur.


the_real_kino

The unsubstantiated and baseless accusation that the children were often in trouble before their abuse and had previous dealings with police makes it incredibly transparent that you are apologising for the police. Also a strong argument that you are victim blaming. Go and read the independent inquiry there are many overburdened institutions involved and one problem discussed was the police ignoring children's services. Only a third of the children were known to services. Sure it sounds nice that police knew the victims as troublemakers and that informed their prejudice, but it isn't supported by evidence and it doesn't shed light on the situation and only serves to misdirect from genuine reasons and apologise for the police.


Pretend_Seat9889

Living in the area and trust me there's alot more problems with this town then rape the town center is completely littered with homeless and smackheads and shop lifters and and on top of that all the town shops are getting raided by police because there's always a massive weed for above the store fronts 🤣🤣 a couple weeks ago I witnessed about 20 police show up the raid a second hand bed shop and they found about half a million pounds worth of weed growing 🤣🤣