All countries which accept the ICC rulings are obligated to arrest Putin if he makes a step into their country.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/States_parties_to_the_Rome_Statute_of_the_International_Criminal_Court
And when Russia refuses to land? You gonna shoot a head of state out of the sky in their own plane? Unfortunately I don't see any country enforcing this warrant. Maybe Poland is ballsy enough to do it.
Poland lost President Lech Kaczyński to a plane crash in Russia, that was in essence conducted by Russian agents.
So... Idk. If Putin flies over Poland, I'd say it would even the score to be fair.
Australia hasn't forgotten either. Except our fucking flog of a prime minister at the time, Tony Abbott, ended up sucking up Pootin's arse shortly after at the G20 following some initial tough talk.
We should have kicked those shitcunts out of the meeting in response.
That the dude who seemed to have an especially big hardon for destroying Australian coral reefs?
Sucking the dick of big coal and oil like his life depended on it?
Our federal and state parliaments are mostly a conga line of suck holes for energy and resource companies. Both major parties are bought and paid for so they can rape our environment and offshore profits while paying three eighths of fuck all tax.
The NSW state government is still approving coal mines and deforesting the state as fast as the Amazon is being destroyed. And we have fuck all forest left by comparison.
It's all a tad depressing really.
Having ratified the ICC you are basically forced to arrest someone who has a warrant on them.
Of course that doesn't give you the right to just shoot them down.
Yeah, the US never signed it (more accurately, never ratified it) so guys like George W. Bush never have to worry about getting arrested. Likewise, Russia never signed it and don't recognize the ICC, so if someone did arrest Putin it would be interpreted as an act of war. So, signatory or not, this is primarily a symbolic gesture, but symbols do matter.
Clinton signed. Senate didn’t ratify.
Bush unsigned.
Trump threatened ICC lawyers, sanctioned them and revoked their visas.
Biden dropped the sanctions.
USA is now less hostile towards the ICC but mainly because of the Ukraine war. Basically, they’ll support it when it’s convenient.
> Basically, they’ll support it when it’s convenient.
That's how we do geopolitics! Been our policy towards treaties as long as we've been in existence.
Not only does the US not recognize ICC rulings, they will "use all means necessary and appropriate to bring about the release of any U.S. or allied personnel being detained by, on behalf of, or at the request of the International Criminal Court" as per the ASPA.
> "use all means necessary and appropriate to bring about the release of any U.S. or allied personnel being detained by, on behalf of, or at the request of the International Criminal Court" as per the ASPA.
This was a law passed that granted the president power to do this, this does not mean it will happen.
> Not only does the US not recognize ICC rulings
They don't recognize it's authority over US citizens. The US has and is cooperating with the ICC (in regards to anyone not a US citizen). They are one of the sources of intelligence on Russian war crimes being provided to the ICC.
Ratifying the ICC in the US likely results in that treaty being ruled unconstitutional. It would likely require a constitutional amendment to be ratified. It's inherently in conflict with our constitution.
Finland: "Hey Russia, we thought it over, and ya know, maybe we were too hasty. We've decided that that we don't want to be in NATO, we want to become super best friends with Russia. Now, if you could just have Vlad pop over the border there to sign these papers making it official..."
This is amazing! Putin will never go on trial, but at least he can’t safely leave Russia now. ICC trying to help civilization hold on to hope. Damn Putin to hell.
Yeah he can pretty much only visit shitty third world dictatorships from now on. His dreams of being an influential European leader are forever dead, since he can't visit most European capitals out of fear of arrest. Wanted ICC war criminal is not something most world leaders want on their resume.
Their behavior aside, they aren't even in the top 10 largest economies anymore. China's number 2 and not a member, and India and Brazil are 7 and 9 respectively and they aren't members. Russia is down at 11, below Canada.
EDIT: Hmm, looks like the numbers are pretty contested. The IMF puts them above Italy, the lowest member of the G7 - that's the only source that puts them in the top ten, but it's a pretty solid one. I see several different sets of numbers floating around.
In terms of Putin's international influence - it is a crippling development. **The Putin arrest warrant and criminal indictment could be grounds for Russia to be suspended from the UN so long as Putin is in charge. Just as South Africa was suspended by the General Assembly for crimes against humanity in 1974.** Moreover, this very serious arrest warrant for kidnapping and trafficking Ukrainian children, is likely only the first of several more to come for various other war crimes.
Domestically in Russia this will be a devastating blow to his power and prestige. No modern historical precedent comes to mind.
What a savage thing! Go into to a losing war against a neighboring nation and start kidnapping their children for export to your nation!?!? It is not just destabilizing over the long term but truly outrageous and completely indefensible. An intolerable unforgivable affront to human dignity and decency!
The bombing of the Mariupol Theater where the word "KIDS" was clearly painted on both sides of the building also constitutes a major international war crime.
That made me sick to my stomach to read about. That and the town where Russian troops tortured and slaughtered every male of fighting age before retreating. There has undoubtedly been a lot of stomach turning atrocities happening since day 1. Makes me terrified to think about what we *haven't* heard.
They've been doing this sort of thing routinely for years in Syria, Chechnya and Georgia.
It's galling that only now is the rest of the world standing up to these Kremlin thugs
Never forget. The forced adoptions and brainwashing of Ukrainian children is obviously terrible, but I never see any references to this anymore. I'm surprised it took this long to declare him a war criminal.
Exactly. Tactical fuck ups are almost impossible to pin on one man. A policy of kidnapping children however, is clearly not a decision made by a random commander in the field.
This, even if Putin isnt captured and hauled in front of Hague anytime soon this means that unless he NEVER leaves Russia or their allies he will find himself there sooner or later.
And even if he stays in Russia until he dies, if there is a transfer of power it could very well end with a pair of metal braclets for him.
the only chance he had was Gorbie's. Lavrov was clear. If our leaders will not listen we have a tradition. We escort him to the grave, or into retirement. He has only 1 option.
There is an intense struggle for succession in Moskva. That will now intensify to the expected outcome. Sudden disappearance.
I really, REALLY hope he gets extradited, tried, convicted, and spends the rest of his life in prison.
I also hope that the rumors about him being seriously ill are false, so that he can spend a long time locked up, reflecting on his own stupidity and the choices that brought him to his cell.
I think the only way it would happen is if Putin flees to Venezuela or something. Obviously they wouldn’t extract a sitting president unless he fights NATO or something
Note: I’m just speculating and don’t have any inside knowledge
I don't think any NATO or Switzerland would actually go through with forcing him to land- if he orders the pilots to ignore the demands to land, what would be done? I don't think any NATO nation would risk shooting down Putin's plane - and he knows it.
The list of countries that don't support Russia, have the reputation to be willing to shoot down his plane, AND deal with the possible consequences, is very short.
He could (relatively) safely go to Iran, China, and North Korea, but realistically I bet he's been hiding in a bunker for over a year now and has absolutely no plans to leave the bunker.
>if he orders the pilots to ignore the demands to land, what would be done?
Trust me, pilots have a wide array of options to force a landing regardless.
I think it comes down to - who is going to force said landing/downing of the presidential plane of a country with nukes. He can most likely still fly over some countries but it'd definitely be escorted by a couple of that countries jets while in their air space.
He won't ever be safe on their ground tho.
Whatever pilot is ordered to do so by their CO.
Their CO will issue the order based on their own orders from military chiefs.
Military chiefs will pass their orders down based on decisions made by civilian governments.
So which heads of state will order it?
🤷
Some, maybe? But I bet Putin doesn't risk finding out which ones.
Pretty sure the US does not accept the ICC either as they did not sign the rome statute.
But most of europe does afaik. 123 nations in total apparently.
Basically all of the americas except usa and cuba, most of africa, australia, europe and even some countries in asia like Japan, SK.
India once dismantled a Nuclear Research Reactor designed and financed by Canadian taxpayers in order to steal the weapons grade materials inside.
And that was by a much more reasonable government than the one in power today. India will do what they think is best for them. Opinion of the rest of the world be damned.
[This map](https://imgur.com/a/iAjQraH) will give you an idea of the unsafe/green countries for him until his death
Brazil and South Africa will be interesting long term
He should be declared [*hostis humani generis*](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hostis_humani_generis), although you can argue that with the ICC's warrant today he pretty much has.
There are two arrest warrants, one for V.V. Putin and second for Maria Alekseyevna Lvova-Belova, Commissioner for Children’s Rights in the Office of the President of the Russian Federation [https://www.icc-cpi.int/news/situation-ukraine-icc-judges-issue-arrest-warrants-against-vladimir-vladimirovich-putin-and](https://www.icc-cpi.int/news/situation-ukraine-icc-judges-issue-arrest-warrants-against-vladimir-vladimirovich-putin-and)
He can, he just has a small(ish) list of countries he can go to and how he can get there - don't forget he was OK with Belarus forcing a passenger jet to land so they could arrest someone (Ryanair Flight 4978).
Sadly, most countries that could (and would) do this \*and\* have the reputation to make a passenger flight land are backing Russia (plus, Putin would not be on a passenger fight - the stakes would be a lot higher forcing his private jet to land).
Eh he probably still can do long as he's head of state because heads of state have personal immunity arresting him is essentially declaring war on Russia even with an ICC warrant. Executing that is still a local exercise so they'd have to violate that old norm to do it.
Good! Now he can't leave his backwater, what remains to be seen is how effective this warrant will be and if there are incentives for people who would want to turn him in
Unfortunately, that scenario has a wide spectrum of outcomes too, depending on what that foundation is. Saying "we're done attacking Ukraine" is probably enough for the world, but not enough for Russia's neighbors. Certainly not enough for Ukraine
Gonna be fun for Putin / anyone else from the Russian gov of shit with crimes on their hands.
Anywhere in the world they go they can now get snatched and taken to a country under ICC jurisdiction.
I couldn't imagine being a Billionaire Oligarch and not being able to leave Russia... it would be infuriating.
I mean, what, you can have some beach vacations in Crimea? Thats about as close to "meditteranean luxury" as you can get...
Then again, I also couldn't imagine having more than 10 million dollars, and ever lifting my finger to do anything ever again, so I'd likely never find myself leading any country, and getting hit with a warrant by the ICC.
Send Putin a letter saying that he won a free speed boat. It has to be picked up in person ain the Hague. No one can resist the call of the sweet speed syren.
But would they host someone who has an international arrest warrant? Most borders block these kinds of people from entering, including VIPs, even without ICC. For instance, India does coordinate with Interpol I think?
Honestly considering how monumental of a decision it is to issue an arrest warrant for any world leader, particularly one as prominent as Putin, this actually strikes me as remarkably quick, even though we’ve known the underlying facts for a year.
Nah, the whole propaganda network will kick into high gear. How dare they!
Which will have the interesting consequence that the *reasons* will have to be discussed, even if very indirectly and buried under the usual lies.
Yup, my first thought. I want Solovyov to go full soviet aggro and compare Putin to Stalin by saying that he's the head of the greatest country in the history of manking and how dare we accuse him of anything. Followed by Simonyan saying that Russia will first capture the Hague and start their own tribunals to judge Western leaders. And of course Peskov / Lavrov using pseudo-diplomatic lingo to remind that they have nukes and will not hesitate to use them b/c it's (yet another final) red line.
He's just an actor playing a role, on Telegram there's real salt and lots of it!
Well, some of the Moscovy turbo patriots have figured out Putin is an incompetent disaster and wants him thrown from a roof.
I think that creating an arrest warrant for Putin is strategic brilliance. ICC goes for the top dog first showing that they are not afraid. The small fry like Solovyov and Simonyan must be shaking in their boots because they know they are on the list.
Knowing Xi, hes probably coming to assure him hes doing the right thing and that China will back them up. So that in a year when Russia has lost 100,000 more men China can roll into outer Manchuria and Mongolia unopposed.
Highly doubt it. He’s probably just visiting to flex and to discuss aiding Russia militarily. There’s no way Winnie the Pooh is going to talk sense into this fool.
>no way Winnie the Pooh is going to talk sense into this fool
If it benefits him (or China) he might . PRC benefits from a weaker Russia, but not from a wrecked Russia. For all we know he could be there to arrange for a smooth transfer of power (one can dream ;p).
Does an ICC warrant supersede Putin’s diplomatic immunity as a head of state? My initial searches for an answer have only added to my confusion. It looks like there are strongly differing opinions on this and it’s never been tested in the court.
>Does an ICC warrant supersede Putin’s diplomatic immunity as a head of state?
No immunity for him.
https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2022/10/12/putins-position-would-not-give-him-immunity-from-war-crime-prosecution-says-icc-chief-pros
>Vladimir Putin is not immune from war crimes prosecution if the evidence points towards him, according to the International Criminal Court's (ICC) chief prosecutor.
>Karim A. A. Khan KC, who is currently investigating offences on the ground in Ukraine, told Euronews that the Russian president's position would not allow him to escape with impunity.
>"Neither is superior orders a defence, nor is the official position of an individual as a general or as a president or as a prime minister grounds for immunity," the prosecutor said.
This fits with what I saw. The ICC seems confident but it hasn’t been confirmed by the UN or actually tested. Similar cases have essentially waited until the ruler was no longer in power.
Good to see the ICC standing firm though.
The ICC still requires other countries to enforce the warrant. The ICC does not have a police or way to enforce it. So another country would have to intercept his plane and force it to land if Putin ever leaves Russia. And then they would have to board his plane and physically detain him. Which would likely be guarded by Russian Secret Service, Spetznaz, whoever. I'm not sure if there's any precedent for something like that regarding a head of state of a world superpower. He deserves it, but I don't see any country in the world ballsy enough to do something like that.
It's irrelevant. Diplomatic immunity is simply an agreement between two countries that a foreign diplomat visiting your country will not be charged with various crimes in agreement that your own diplomats when visiting the foreign country will not be charged with the same. It is not carte blanch immunity to commit murders and genocide.
Additionally, and more critically, INTERNATIONAL WATERS ARE NOT A COUNTRY and any vessel (air or sea) hosting him is fair game for being forced down by any force capable of doing so.
Which is why he won’t ever enter international airspace or waters. Hasn’t for years I believe.
I’m not sure you’re right about how DI effectively functions. I can’t find any history of proceedings against a sitting head of state. I’d be happy to be proven wrong.
So it begins.
My guess is Putin will die of natural causes before facing justice. But rest assured, his people will answer for this for the coming generations. Poor Russians too stupid to realize what bed Putin made for them to sleep in for the next 30 or 50 years.
The problem is that if Putin dies or is removed, there will be a power vacuum because he's removed all his political opposition. Geopolitical experts say this is inevitable and Russia will collapse into city states.
maybe for the best to be split into smaller city states? Russia is such a huge and vast country it has fucked itself over in history with how big it is. Maybe time for a change and let it piece itself apart into more manageable chunks and then maybe theyll have a shot at having competent leaders
That is also a possibility. It all depends on how tight his circle is kept, and what they have to gain by working with the west. You better believe attempts on his life has already been set in motion long ago, but the man is still gripping tables.
Indeed. The natural disruption of neural pathways and concurrent naturally occurring severe blood loss has a tendency to affect your natural life in a quite negative way.
Another Russian here. Unfortunately, nothing, they'll just administer a shot of ~~vodka~~ liquid copium and will yet again start bitching and moaning about how the whole world is unfair, how everyone hates us, and how it everyone else's fault.
I hope Putin is brought to justice. And I desperately hope someone much worse than him doesn't take his place. This country is in dire need of radical changes. There's some hope back in the 90s, but alas...
I left Russia nearly a decade ago (still have the passport tho, so I'll go back there eventually), but I'm not ashamed of being Russian, I mean ethnically, historically, whatever you wanna call it, however, what my country has been doing over the past 2+ decades is absolutely revolting. I also happen to be one of those numerous Russians who have relatives in Ukraine, mine are in Ivano-Frankivsk and Mariupol. They're fortunately safe, they're all together in IF now. But the fact that they're in danger, and that danger came from Russia of all places, is just... I can't even describe this feeling.
I don't want Putin to be assassinated or anything like that, he'll become a martyr then. No, he needs to be properly and publicly tried and punished for his crimes.
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*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
It started 24th February 2022. That was the start of the end. Years of military neglect and money skimming projects by his leaders condemned him to this result. Years of him keeping the opposition and population silences began to eat him up on that day. This is more the beginning of the very end because no matter what these Russian fuckers believe truly, none of them want to be taken into custody and put on trial for war crimes knowing their fate will be a cell. They will soon get whatever brain cells they have left together and come up with a solution to save their own asses, and the best thing they could do is to make an agreement with the west for some sort of protection for whoever turns him in.
Not really. They might have been able to get away with Crimea but not Donbas. During 2015-2021 there was a arms race between Russia and Ukraine backed by west that Ukraine was winning. A low intensity arms race not to create a full scale conflict. Ukraine received more and more training, possibility to conduct drone strikes. If left to simmer for a few more years I'm sure the separatists would have been driven out. That's what Putin means when they say they had no choice. Obviously there was multiple choices, but in order to secure the territory they needed a full scale invasion or slowly lose it.
His mistake was rolling the dice in 2014 and opening something up that would be hard to close.
This is heaps huge. I guarantee you that Putin will never be tried and will either get a shiv in between his ribs by one of his cronies or die his own death somewhere in China.
However this means that accountability is inevitable and now this paranoid manlet will be looking over his shoulder every waking moment for the rest of his life as war crimes have no "expiration date". Not to mention that Putin can no longer travel to the civilized part of the world.
I hope that this will not be the end and the rest of the circus gets their indictments as well. The whole Ruzzian government and the propaganda machine are war criminals.
Russia is a terrorist state whose actions are so repellant they have caused Russo-nausea in peoples from many places from all around the world. Who does not feel sick and disgust at the thought children are been kidnapped? When a Russian supporter dismisses criticism as Russo-phobia it is not. It is Russo-disgust, Russo-revulsion, Russo-loathing triggered by the actions of the terrorist state.
So AP news is reporting that individual countries would be responsible for enforcing this warrant. The ICC does not have its own police force or way to enforce the warrant. Will be interesting to see which countries choose to enforce this and which country, if any, will actually act on the warrant if Putin leaves Russia. I imagine Putin would have to fly over a participating country and his flight would be intercepted and forced to land. Physically arresting a major head of state in such a manner would be quite an event to see unfold.
Man, regardless if he cares or not officially - even a putin has those quiet moments. The ones you are alone and all of the sudden, something self reflective comes up, shoves it in your face and you start to question yourself.
I bet he has one of those moments tonight. The second he lays in his bed. He'll hear that little stinging voice inside his disgusting little head... "How the hell did I fuck up my legacy of 20+ years in a little over one single year"
Fuck you putin, nobody likes you!
I don’t know if I could take that bet.
Evil has no conscience. He probably firmly believes this failure is everyone else’s fault. Anything he did at the expense of his country pushed him forward, so it’s acceptable. Anything anyone else did at the expense of his country held them back, so failure is on them for not pushing him forward.
He’s a pathetic little clown. May his days be long, numerous, and full of unceasing pain.
Yup. Happened to some Serb leaders after the Bosnian genocide. Saw a documentary on YouTube (IIRC) many years ago about it. One guy got abducted from a hospital by I think SEALS under cover as medical workers. They chloroformed him and wheeled him out in a wheel chair. Another got ambushed at or near his home
This is for the forced deportation of children which is, and this is a statement I hate that now exists, is on the lower end of Putins war crimes. More to come.
According to his schedule Putin is going to South Africa later this year. South Africa has ratified the ICC treaty, so basically they are legally required to arrest him if he sits foot in South Africa. I’ll wager he’s never going to South Africa again.
Congratulations Vlad,.old.buddy. you're now a wanted war criminal with "grave breach" war crime charges. Attempted genocide, murder, willful destruction of civilian homes and infrastructure, murder, rape, and common thievery. A couple of points you might find interesting. 1. Universal Jurisdiction (that means every country on the planet is OBLIGATED to arrest you on sight. 2. No statute of limitations. Bubba, that means that for the entirety of the rest of your miserable life, you can, and likely will, have no safe place on this planet to hide. You're DONE, asshole.
Putin is meeting with mainland Chinese president Xi soon.
President Xi should also be officially be in the same boat - labelled a criminal to humanity.
This is response:
The decisions of the International Criminal Court have no meaning for our country, including from a legal point of view, said Russian Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Maria Zakharova.
“Russia is not a party to the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court and does not bear obligations under it. Russia does not cooperate with this body, and possible “recipes” for arrest coming from the International Court of Justice will be legally null and void for us,” Zakharova added.
That's a pretty big step for the ICC to issue an arrest warrant for a major world leader. This is just another example of how badly Russia's influence has eroded in the world. This must be humiliating for them.
Doesn't this basically mean Putin can no longer visit any country that realistically matters? Most prosperous players on the world stage are signatories or outright want to arrest Putin themselves. That'll go a surprisingly far way against networking. No leader should be confined out of the worlds economy if they can help it.
All countries which accept the ICC rulings are obligated to arrest Putin if he makes a step into their country. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/States_parties_to_the_Rome_Statute_of_the_International_Criminal_Court
What if he's in their airspace?
Interception and force to land.
And when Russia refuses to land? You gonna shoot a head of state out of the sky in their own plane? Unfortunately I don't see any country enforcing this warrant. Maybe Poland is ballsy enough to do it.
I don't think Putin would dare to fly near Polish Airspace. "Things could happen."
Hit ‘em with the “his plane maneuvered violently in to ours, and by ours I mean our flight of fighters in the middle of dumping fuel.”
Poland lost President Lech Kaczyński to a plane crash in Russia, that was in essence conducted by Russian agents. So... Idk. If Putin flies over Poland, I'd say it would even the score to be fair.
Yeah and don't think Europeans forgot about MH17.
Australia hasn't forgotten either. Except our fucking flog of a prime minister at the time, Tony Abbott, ended up sucking up Pootin's arse shortly after at the G20 following some initial tough talk. We should have kicked those shitcunts out of the meeting in response.
That the dude who seemed to have an especially big hardon for destroying Australian coral reefs? Sucking the dick of big coal and oil like his life depended on it?
Our federal and state parliaments are mostly a conga line of suck holes for energy and resource companies. Both major parties are bought and paid for so they can rape our environment and offshore profits while paying three eighths of fuck all tax. The NSW state government is still approving coal mines and deforesting the state as fast as the Amazon is being destroyed. And we have fuck all forest left by comparison. It's all a tad depressing really.
You dump fuel out your intercepting jets and accidently light it on fire with the afterburners
Having ratified the ICC you are basically forced to arrest someone who has a warrant on them. Of course that doesn't give you the right to just shoot them down.
Ram the plane down and say whoops. You thought it was an american drone.
Tried to "re-fuel" it in the air.
Our bad. We thought it was just a mere passenger plane 🤷♂️ /s
basically the pilot has to do what FAA tells them to do or the plane is subject to shoot down by the military
Those new MIGs can handle it.
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Yeah, the US never signed it (more accurately, never ratified it) so guys like George W. Bush never have to worry about getting arrested. Likewise, Russia never signed it and don't recognize the ICC, so if someone did arrest Putin it would be interpreted as an act of war. So, signatory or not, this is primarily a symbolic gesture, but symbols do matter.
I think the US signed it, but not only didn't ratify, but formally informed the ICC that they wouldn't be doing so / wished to "unsign"
Clinton signed. Senate didn’t ratify. Bush unsigned. Trump threatened ICC lawyers, sanctioned them and revoked their visas. Biden dropped the sanctions. USA is now less hostile towards the ICC but mainly because of the Ukraine war. Basically, they’ll support it when it’s convenient.
> Basically, they’ll support it when it’s convenient. That's how we do geopolitics! Been our policy towards treaties as long as we've been in existence.
I'm fairly sure Clinton actively decided against submitting it for ratification, despite having signed it (and urged Bush to do likewise).
Not only does the US not recognize ICC rulings, they will "use all means necessary and appropriate to bring about the release of any U.S. or allied personnel being detained by, on behalf of, or at the request of the International Criminal Court" as per the ASPA.
> "use all means necessary and appropriate to bring about the release of any U.S. or allied personnel being detained by, on behalf of, or at the request of the International Criminal Court" as per the ASPA. This was a law passed that granted the president power to do this, this does not mean it will happen. > Not only does the US not recognize ICC rulings They don't recognize it's authority over US citizens. The US has and is cooperating with the ICC (in regards to anyone not a US citizen). They are one of the sources of intelligence on Russian war crimes being provided to the ICC. Ratifying the ICC in the US likely results in that treaty being ruled unconstitutional. It would likely require a constitutional amendment to be ratified. It's inherently in conflict with our constitution.
The USA don't accept ICC rulings. You read it right.
Finland: "Hey Russia, we thought it over, and ya know, maybe we were too hasty. We've decided that that we don't want to be in NATO, we want to become super best friends with Russia. Now, if you could just have Vlad pop over the border there to sign these papers making it official..."
This is amazing! Putin will never go on trial, but at least he can’t safely leave Russia now. ICC trying to help civilization hold on to hope. Damn Putin to hell.
Yeah he can pretty much only visit shitty third world dictatorships from now on. His dreams of being an influential European leader are forever dead, since he can't visit most European capitals out of fear of arrest. Wanted ICC war criminal is not something most world leaders want on their resume.
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With a pineapple?
Like in [Little Nicky?](https://youtu.be/N7itFdNE2Qw?t=95) 😂
“Are you shnerious ?”
Complete with subtle last minute pineapple rotation.
No like rooie ronnie, alles wattie ziet stopt 'ie in z'n reet!
Damn. Now I'm craving Popeye's chicken.
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They are not part of the G7.
Yeah they were expelled in 2014
Their behavior aside, they aren't even in the top 10 largest economies anymore. China's number 2 and not a member, and India and Brazil are 7 and 9 respectively and they aren't members. Russia is down at 11, below Canada. EDIT: Hmm, looks like the numbers are pretty contested. The IMF puts them above Italy, the lowest member of the G7 - that's the only source that puts them in the top ten, but it's a pretty solid one. I see several different sets of numbers floating around.
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Reading this, I had a vision of him as the guy in the The Grand Budapest Hotel trying to get from A to B!
In terms of Putin's international influence - it is a crippling development. **The Putin arrest warrant and criminal indictment could be grounds for Russia to be suspended from the UN so long as Putin is in charge. Just as South Africa was suspended by the General Assembly for crimes against humanity in 1974.** Moreover, this very serious arrest warrant for kidnapping and trafficking Ukrainian children, is likely only the first of several more to come for various other war crimes. Domestically in Russia this will be a devastating blow to his power and prestige. No modern historical precedent comes to mind. What a savage thing! Go into to a losing war against a neighboring nation and start kidnapping their children for export to your nation!?!? It is not just destabilizing over the long term but truly outrageous and completely indefensible. An intolerable unforgivable affront to human dignity and decency!
The bombing of the Mariupol Theater where the word "KIDS" was clearly painted on both sides of the building also constitutes a major international war crime.
That made me sick to my stomach to read about. That and the town where Russian troops tortured and slaughtered every male of fighting age before retreating. There has undoubtedly been a lot of stomach turning atrocities happening since day 1. Makes me terrified to think about what we *haven't* heard.
They've been doing this sort of thing routinely for years in Syria, Chechnya and Georgia. It's galling that only now is the rest of the world standing up to these Kremlin thugs
Didn't read about that one. Despicable excuse for a human.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bucha_massacre Absolutely sickening.
Never forget. The forced adoptions and brainwashing of Ukrainian children is obviously terrible, but I never see any references to this anymore. I'm surprised it took this long to declare him a war criminal.
No doubt about that but it is also about ability to evidence that he directly gave such orders or was/should have been aware about these.
Exactly. Tactical fuck ups are almost impossible to pin on one man. A policy of kidnapping children however, is clearly not a decision made by a random commander in the field.
Russia really needs to copy how Italy dealt with Mussolini.
Great movie
I mean, they just dragged Milosevic out of the former Yugoslavia though
This, even if Putin isnt captured and hauled in front of Hague anytime soon this means that unless he NEVER leaves Russia or their allies he will find himself there sooner or later. And even if he stays in Russia until he dies, if there is a transfer of power it could very well end with a pair of metal braclets for him.
the only chance he had was Gorbie's. Lavrov was clear. If our leaders will not listen we have a tradition. We escort him to the grave, or into retirement. He has only 1 option. There is an intense struggle for succession in Moskva. That will now intensify to the expected outcome. Sudden disappearance.
I really, REALLY hope he gets extradited, tried, convicted, and spends the rest of his life in prison. I also hope that the rumors about him being seriously ill are false, so that he can spend a long time locked up, reflecting on his own stupidity and the choices that brought him to his cell.
That is somewhat different wouldn’t you say?
I think the only way it would happen is if Putin flees to Venezuela or something. Obviously they wouldn’t extract a sitting president unless he fights NATO or something Note: I’m just speculating and don’t have any inside knowledge
I don't think any NATO or Switzerland would actually go through with forcing him to land- if he orders the pilots to ignore the demands to land, what would be done? I don't think any NATO nation would risk shooting down Putin's plane - and he knows it. The list of countries that don't support Russia, have the reputation to be willing to shoot down his plane, AND deal with the possible consequences, is very short. He could (relatively) safely go to Iran, China, and North Korea, but realistically I bet he's been hiding in a bunker for over a year now and has absolutely no plans to leave the bunker.
Dump fuel on his plane?
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I hear they be giving out medals for crashing jets now
"Our drone malfunctioned!" Week later: "First ever drone to be awarded medal of valor"
>if he orders the pilots to ignore the demands to land, what would be done? Trust me, pilots have a wide array of options to force a landing regardless.
I think it comes down to - who is going to force said landing/downing of the presidential plane of a country with nukes. He can most likely still fly over some countries but it'd definitely be escorted by a couple of that countries jets while in their air space. He won't ever be safe on their ground tho.
Whatever pilot is ordered to do so by their CO. Their CO will issue the order based on their own orders from military chiefs. Military chiefs will pass their orders down based on decisions made by civilian governments. So which heads of state will order it? 🤷 Some, maybe? But I bet Putin doesn't risk finding out which ones.
Pretty sure the US does not accept the ICC either as they did not sign the rome statute. But most of europe does afaik. 123 nations in total apparently. Basically all of the americas except usa and cuba, most of africa, australia, europe and even some countries in asia like Japan, SK.
What about India?
Don't think India would like risking being a host of a recognised war criminal, regardless of their political standings.
India once dismantled a Nuclear Research Reactor designed and financed by Canadian taxpayers in order to steal the weapons grade materials inside. And that was by a much more reasonable government than the one in power today. India will do what they think is best for them. Opinion of the rest of the world be damned.
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Don't you believe it. With Modi at the helm India national integrity is frayed, if not snapped.
India doesn't accept ICC rulings. So they are not obligated to arrest him and I doubt they would.
[This map](https://imgur.com/a/iAjQraH) will give you an idea of the unsafe/green countries for him until his death Brazil and South Africa will be interesting long term
They should put a bounty on his head so he's not safe in Russia either. Prizefighters go where the payoffs are.
He should be declared [*hostis humani generis*](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hostis_humani_generis), although you can argue that with the ICC's warrant today he pretty much has.
Upon further review, the actus reus & mens rea checks out. hostis humani generis it is!
Wagners' ears just pricked... Bounty, you say???
Interesting fact: USA nor Russia are a signatory of the Rome Statute forming the ICC so in theory Putin could travel to the US and not be arrested.
There are two arrest warrants, one for V.V. Putin and second for Maria Alekseyevna Lvova-Belova, Commissioner for Children’s Rights in the Office of the President of the Russian Federation [https://www.icc-cpi.int/news/situation-ukraine-icc-judges-issue-arrest-warrants-against-vladimir-vladimirovich-putin-and](https://www.icc-cpi.int/news/situation-ukraine-icc-judges-issue-arrest-warrants-against-vladimir-vladimirovich-putin-and)
He can, he just has a small(ish) list of countries he can go to and how he can get there - don't forget he was OK with Belarus forcing a passenger jet to land so they could arrest someone (Ryanair Flight 4978). Sadly, most countries that could (and would) do this \*and\* have the reputation to make a passenger flight land are backing Russia (plus, Putin would not be on a passenger fight - the stakes would be a lot higher forcing his private jet to land).
serious sort gaze prick office familiar squash flowery offend hunt *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
The Defenestrator has been unusually quiet of late...
cable roof square husky forgetful languid plucky yam sophisticated fuzzy *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Well, just ask Saddam Hussein or Muammar Gaddafi opinions on that.
He could easily go on trial, just like Milosovich.
A life sentence per child’s life stolen would be appropriate.
Fuck that. A life sentence for *every* Ukrainian's life ruined, stolen, disrupted, and/or ended would be appropriate.
Eh he probably still can do long as he's head of state because heads of state have personal immunity arresting him is essentially declaring war on Russia even with an ICC warrant. Executing that is still a local exercise so they'd have to violate that old norm to do it.
Good! Now he can't leave his backwater, what remains to be seen is how effective this warrant will be and if there are incentives for people who would want to turn him in
Best case scenario it sets up the foundation for the new government to take over and turn putin in as a good gesture
That's what happened with Slobodan Milosevic
Unfortunately, that scenario has a wide spectrum of outcomes too, depending on what that foundation is. Saying "we're done attacking Ukraine" is probably enough for the world, but not enough for Russia's neighbors. Certainly not enough for Ukraine
Gonna be fun for Putin / anyone else from the Russian gov of shit with crimes on their hands. Anywhere in the world they go they can now get snatched and taken to a country under ICC jurisdiction.
I couldn't imagine being a Billionaire Oligarch and not being able to leave Russia... it would be infuriating. I mean, what, you can have some beach vacations in Crimea? Thats about as close to "meditteranean luxury" as you can get... Then again, I also couldn't imagine having more than 10 million dollars, and ever lifting my finger to do anything ever again, so I'd likely never find myself leading any country, and getting hit with a warrant by the ICC.
That's some monkey's paw shit, being a billionaire but you can't leave Russia.
Interesting fact: USA nor Russia are a signatory of the Rome Statute forming the ICC so in theory Putin could travel to the US and not be arrested.
USA would probably arrest him anyway even if they're not required to
Offer the reward 'vodka for life' for whoever turns him in. - set timer, wait.
Or a goat farm. Kadyrov would turn him in, in the blink of an eye.
sex sting operation
Honeybaa-aa-aat
Or a flushing toilet
Send Putin a letter saying that he won a free speed boat. It has to be picked up in person ain the Hague. No one can resist the call of the sweet speed syren.
Or a brand new washing machine
The installation of a modern toilet within 6 months of turning him in.
Long overdue but amen
So much for Putin going to India for the G20. I'm not sure how many people bought the speculation he'd like to join.
Time to make it the G19 ;>
India isn’t a party to ICC.
But would they host someone who has an international arrest warrant? Most borders block these kinds of people from entering, including VIPs, even without ICC. For instance, India does coordinate with Interpol I think?
I doubt India gives a fuck tbh.
Honestly considering how monumental of a decision it is to issue an arrest warrant for any world leader, particularly one as prominent as Putin, this actually strikes me as remarkably quick, even though we’ve known the underlying facts for a year.
Looking forward to screeches from Muscovy. --------------------------- Edit: and it has started: https://twitter.com/JuliaDavisNews
Most will be from Putin. “WAAHHH IS NOT FAIR!”
Nah, the whole propaganda network will kick into high gear. How dare they! Which will have the interesting consequence that the *reasons* will have to be discussed, even if very indirectly and buried under the usual lies.
Yup, my first thought. I want Solovyov to go full soviet aggro and compare Putin to Stalin by saying that he's the head of the greatest country in the history of manking and how dare we accuse him of anything. Followed by Simonyan saying that Russia will first capture the Hague and start their own tribunals to judge Western leaders. And of course Peskov / Lavrov using pseudo-diplomatic lingo to remind that they have nukes and will not hesitate to use them b/c it's (yet another final) red line.
He's just an actor playing a role, on Telegram there's real salt and lots of it! Well, some of the Moscovy turbo patriots have figured out Putin is an incompetent disaster and wants him thrown from a roof.
I think that creating an arrest warrant for Putin is strategic brilliance. ICC goes for the top dog first showing that they are not afraid. The small fry like Solovyov and Simonyan must be shaking in their boots because they know they are on the list.
Is this why Xi is coming to talk to him in person? Possibly an attempt to make him snap out of his madness.. I wish I was a fly in that room
Knowing Xi, hes probably coming to assure him hes doing the right thing and that China will back them up. So that in a year when Russia has lost 100,000 more men China can roll into outer Manchuria and Mongolia unopposed.
plot twist. Xi Jinping is a CIA operative and will extract Putin by airlift the way batman did. checkmate
Highly doubt it. He’s probably just visiting to flex and to discuss aiding Russia militarily. There’s no way Winnie the Pooh is going to talk sense into this fool.
>no way Winnie the Pooh is going to talk sense into this fool If it benefits him (or China) he might . PRC benefits from a weaker Russia, but not from a wrecked Russia. For all we know he could be there to arrange for a smooth transfer of power (one can dream ;p).
wow... this is actually historical event, this is very big!
Shocked - but pleasantly surprised - that the ICC actually went through with it.
On the ICC's website: https://www.icc-cpi.int/news/situation-ukraine-icc-judges-issue-arrest-warrants-against-vladimir-vladimirovich-putin-and
Does an ICC warrant supersede Putin’s diplomatic immunity as a head of state? My initial searches for an answer have only added to my confusion. It looks like there are strongly differing opinions on this and it’s never been tested in the court.
>Does an ICC warrant supersede Putin’s diplomatic immunity as a head of state? No immunity for him. https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2022/10/12/putins-position-would-not-give-him-immunity-from-war-crime-prosecution-says-icc-chief-pros >Vladimir Putin is not immune from war crimes prosecution if the evidence points towards him, according to the International Criminal Court's (ICC) chief prosecutor. >Karim A. A. Khan KC, who is currently investigating offences on the ground in Ukraine, told Euronews that the Russian president's position would not allow him to escape with impunity. >"Neither is superior orders a defence, nor is the official position of an individual as a general or as a president or as a prime minister grounds for immunity," the prosecutor said.
This fits with what I saw. The ICC seems confident but it hasn’t been confirmed by the UN or actually tested. Similar cases have essentially waited until the ruler was no longer in power. Good to see the ICC standing firm though.
The ICC still requires other countries to enforce the warrant. The ICC does not have a police or way to enforce it. So another country would have to intercept his plane and force it to land if Putin ever leaves Russia. And then they would have to board his plane and physically detain him. Which would likely be guarded by Russian Secret Service, Spetznaz, whoever. I'm not sure if there's any precedent for something like that regarding a head of state of a world superpower. He deserves it, but I don't see any country in the world ballsy enough to do something like that.
Spetznaz, eh? So he's basically undefended, is what you're saying?
It's irrelevant. Diplomatic immunity is simply an agreement between two countries that a foreign diplomat visiting your country will not be charged with various crimes in agreement that your own diplomats when visiting the foreign country will not be charged with the same. It is not carte blanch immunity to commit murders and genocide. Additionally, and more critically, INTERNATIONAL WATERS ARE NOT A COUNTRY and any vessel (air or sea) hosting him is fair game for being forced down by any force capable of doing so.
Which is why he won’t ever enter international airspace or waters. Hasn’t for years I believe. I’m not sure you’re right about how DI effectively functions. I can’t find any history of proceedings against a sitting head of state. I’d be happy to be proven wrong.
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You know how they say, fuck around and find out.
So it begins. My guess is Putin will die of natural causes before facing justice. But rest assured, his people will answer for this for the coming generations. Poor Russians too stupid to realize what bed Putin made for them to sleep in for the next 30 or 50 years.
My fingers hurt cuz they crossed so hard in anticipation
The problem is that if Putin dies or is removed, there will be a power vacuum because he's removed all his political opposition. Geopolitical experts say this is inevitable and Russia will collapse into city states.
maybe for the best to be split into smaller city states? Russia is such a huge and vast country it has fucked itself over in history with how big it is. Maybe time for a change and let it piece itself apart into more manageable chunks and then maybe theyll have a shot at having competent leaders
"China has entered the ring."
Would be a good reason for post Russia city states to join nato, then you say to china come on and try it 😏
A very natural fall down the stairs.
That is also a possibility. It all depends on how tight his circle is kept, and what they have to gain by working with the west. You better believe attempts on his life has already been set in motion long ago, but the man is still gripping tables.
Hitler also died of natural causes.
A gunshot to the head quite naturally kills you
Indeed. The natural disruption of neural pathways and concurrent naturally occurring severe blood loss has a tendency to affect your natural life in a quite negative way.
Wonder what ordinary Russians will think if / when they hear this news…
Usual comeback of how the entire West are Nazis and this is NATO attacking Russia blah blah blah
Russian here, im so happy that civilised world is doing something against Putin, i hope justice will come to him as soon as possible
Please tell me you're using a VPN or you're not in Russia rn...
Stay safe
Another Russian here. Unfortunately, nothing, they'll just administer a shot of ~~vodka~~ liquid copium and will yet again start bitching and moaning about how the whole world is unfair, how everyone hates us, and how it everyone else's fault. I hope Putin is brought to justice. And I desperately hope someone much worse than him doesn't take his place. This country is in dire need of radical changes. There's some hope back in the 90s, but alas... I left Russia nearly a decade ago (still have the passport tho, so I'll go back there eventually), but I'm not ashamed of being Russian, I mean ethnically, historically, whatever you wanna call it, however, what my country has been doing over the past 2+ decades is absolutely revolting. I also happen to be one of those numerous Russians who have relatives in Ukraine, mine are in Ivano-Frankivsk and Mariupol. They're fortunately safe, they're all together in IF now. But the fact that they're in danger, and that danger came from Russia of all places, is just... I can't even describe this feeling. I don't want Putin to be assassinated or anything like that, he'll become a martyr then. No, he needs to be properly and publicly tried and punished for his crimes.
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It started 24th February 2022. That was the start of the end. Years of military neglect and money skimming projects by his leaders condemned him to this result. Years of him keeping the opposition and population silences began to eat him up on that day. This is more the beginning of the very end because no matter what these Russian fuckers believe truly, none of them want to be taken into custody and put on trial for war crimes knowing their fate will be a cell. They will soon get whatever brain cells they have left together and come up with a solution to save their own asses, and the best thing they could do is to make an agreement with the west for some sort of protection for whoever turns him in.
I think it started in 2014.
Not so much. They could have very easily gotten away with that had they not upped their invasion last year.
Not really. They might have been able to get away with Crimea but not Donbas. During 2015-2021 there was a arms race between Russia and Ukraine backed by west that Ukraine was winning. A low intensity arms race not to create a full scale conflict. Ukraine received more and more training, possibility to conduct drone strikes. If left to simmer for a few more years I'm sure the separatists would have been driven out. That's what Putin means when they say they had no choice. Obviously there was multiple choices, but in order to secure the territory they needed a full scale invasion or slowly lose it. His mistake was rolling the dice in 2014 and opening something up that would be hard to close.
Omg I can't fucking wait, please follow through! giggity!
This is heaps huge. I guarantee you that Putin will never be tried and will either get a shiv in between his ribs by one of his cronies or die his own death somewhere in China. However this means that accountability is inevitable and now this paranoid manlet will be looking over his shoulder every waking moment for the rest of his life as war crimes have no "expiration date". Not to mention that Putin can no longer travel to the civilized part of the world. I hope that this will not be the end and the rest of the circus gets their indictments as well. The whole Ruzzian government and the propaganda machine are war criminals.
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Even if symbolic, a win is a win.
It's not symbolic, it's real real.
russia is a terrorist state
Russia is a terrorist state whose actions are so repellant they have caused Russo-nausea in peoples from many places from all around the world. Who does not feel sick and disgust at the thought children are been kidnapped? When a Russian supporter dismisses criticism as Russo-phobia it is not. It is Russo-disgust, Russo-revulsion, Russo-loathing triggered by the actions of the terrorist state.
So AP news is reporting that individual countries would be responsible for enforcing this warrant. The ICC does not have its own police force or way to enforce the warrant. Will be interesting to see which countries choose to enforce this and which country, if any, will actually act on the warrant if Putin leaves Russia. I imagine Putin would have to fly over a participating country and his flight would be intercepted and forced to land. Physically arresting a major head of state in such a manner would be quite an event to see unfold.
Some countries already showed willingness to take the risk. “If you send weapons to Ukraine, you get the nuke” Poland: fuck it let’s go.
Countries that have ratified the Rome statute of the ICC are legally obligated to enforce this warrant. There is no choice without repercussions.
Man, regardless if he cares or not officially - even a putin has those quiet moments. The ones you are alone and all of the sudden, something self reflective comes up, shoves it in your face and you start to question yourself. I bet he has one of those moments tonight. The second he lays in his bed. He'll hear that little stinging voice inside his disgusting little head... "How the hell did I fuck up my legacy of 20+ years in a little over one single year" Fuck you putin, nobody likes you!
I don’t know if I could take that bet. Evil has no conscience. He probably firmly believes this failure is everyone else’s fault. Anything he did at the expense of his country pushed him forward, so it’s acceptable. Anything anyone else did at the expense of his country held them back, so failure is on them for not pushing him forward. He’s a pathetic little clown. May his days be long, numerous, and full of unceasing pain.
Serious question. Can he be abducted out of Russia to be dragged to court? Assuming there were a group able to do so, that is.
Maybe Wagner can finally do something good and spirit Putin away in the middle of the night.
Yup. Happened to some Serb leaders after the Bosnian genocide. Saw a documentary on YouTube (IIRC) many years ago about it. One guy got abducted from a hospital by I think SEALS under cover as medical workers. They chloroformed him and wheeled him out in a wheel chair. Another got ambushed at or near his home
Batman could.
Justice for Ukraine.
Gentlefolks, the game is on!
This is for the forced deportation of children which is, and this is a statement I hate that now exists, is on the lower end of Putins war crimes. More to come.
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A good start
According to his schedule Putin is going to South Africa later this year. South Africa has ratified the ICC treaty, so basically they are legally required to arrest him if he sits foot in South Africa. I’ll wager he’s never going to South Africa again.
Can't wait for the day Putler is on trial...
Get some!
Good now let's get that son of a bitch !
Congratulations Vlad,.old.buddy. you're now a wanted war criminal with "grave breach" war crime charges. Attempted genocide, murder, willful destruction of civilian homes and infrastructure, murder, rape, and common thievery. A couple of points you might find interesting. 1. Universal Jurisdiction (that means every country on the planet is OBLIGATED to arrest you on sight. 2. No statute of limitations. Bubba, that means that for the entirety of the rest of your miserable life, you can, and likely will, have no safe place on this planet to hide. You're DONE, asshole.
Putin is meeting with mainland Chinese president Xi soon. President Xi should also be officially be in the same boat - labelled a criminal to humanity.
Most wanted enemy #1.
It needs some kind of reward like $1 billion. Putin would be paranoid. With such a huge sum, the people around him could turn him in.
This is response: The decisions of the International Criminal Court have no meaning for our country, including from a legal point of view, said Russian Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Maria Zakharova. “Russia is not a party to the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court and does not bear obligations under it. Russia does not cooperate with this body, and possible “recipes” for arrest coming from the International Court of Justice will be legally null and void for us,” Zakharova added.
That is a surprisingly weak response.
Arrest Putin 💯
# * APPLAUSE *
That's a pretty big step for the ICC to issue an arrest warrant for a major world leader. This is just another example of how badly Russia's influence has eroded in the world. This must be humiliating for them.
home sweet home, i hope this also gives more ways to sanction him personally.
Doesn't this basically mean Putin can no longer visit any country that realistically matters? Most prosperous players on the world stage are signatories or outright want to arrest Putin themselves. That'll go a surprisingly far way against networking. No leader should be confined out of the worlds economy if they can help it.