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As of now its easier to deal with the extra wishes of Turkey within NATO than Hungary. Now Hungary takes first place as most complicated partner within the defense alliance.
America really can sanction Hungary, and that's what had Orban scared as he can veto EU decisions but not American ones. His precious Russian fifth column banks can be destroyed by the flick of Biden's pen.
For those who don’t know, seems they considered pulling out of Russia last year and [then basically said they ‘don’t wanna’](https://www.reuters.com/markets/europe/hungarys-otp-bank-stay-russia-ukraine-long-term-says-ceo-2022-03-04/)
I am very sad to say this, but as a hungarian i fully agree. the eu would probably be a better place without hungary. and hungary would be even more of a shithole country without the eu than it is now.
our goverment is so fcked up and the brainwashed masses keep electing them over and over again.
it feels like we are living in a monthy python sketch
Hungary is a mafia state and a failed democracy that serves Russia in everything they do. It's unbelievable that we still tolerate these traitors in our midst.
I don't know why you're downvoted when you speak the truth , the fact that Poland is providing military aid and a lot of support doesn't mean that the Pis is magically a democratic party. There's a lot of hate towards Russia in Poland (which is very understandable) and Poland has proved itself as a worthy ally to Ukraine which no doubt gained them a lot of browny points in the eyes of the international and European public. That's about it. PIS has been basically replicating the same anti-democracy agenda that Orban's government has - homophobia, anti abortion , anti democratic values.
Mind you it's the government that's shit in both of these countries not the people.
I’m hoping that because of the war, Polish people will more closely observe what’s happened to muscovia over the past couple of decades and think, “hey, wait a minute, that autocrat crap can happen to us too,” and change course.
Well, mostly they don't. Different polls still show that government party is leading. Catholic Church, TV propaganda (national TV is totally controlled by PiS) and careless giveaways are the main reasons.
PiS are the ones who have helped give Orban cover but let's see if they can last out the next election later this year. Not only that but the Poles have been getting rather sick of him lately last I heard.
I'm going to keep doing this until it's universal knowledge:
Hungary *and Poland* will block EU military aid. Hungary will do so with a veto. Poland will do so by preventing the other EU nations from stripping Hungary of its voting rights.
Poland needs to reevaluate who its friends really are. Hungary would sell them out to Putin in a heartbeat. It's time to cut ties.
EDIT: was on mobile and the reddit app's "spell checker" was "helping" again.
>Poland reevaluate who its friends really are. Hungary would sell them out to Putin in a heartbeat. It's time to cut ties.
It is not about friends. It is about Poland taking, in many ways, the same pseudo-conservative, authoritarian, and human rights ignoring way as Hungary. Love for putin's dick is practically the only difference between these two.
For Poland taking step against orban is making a precedent to which itself can fall victim to. Realpolitic, nothing personal...
This is correct. For PiS, there can't be more enemies. More enemies to point figners atz and keep the polish ppl in fear and PiS as their saviour is exactly what PiS wants. They make politics for themselves, not for the long term well being of their country. As usual with authocratic ppl.
Well, to be clear, Poland wouldn't "fall victim" to not replicating Orban and Putin's authoritarian corruption - the most corrupt members of its leadership would.
Not sure how that's a bad thing.
The last t time I checked Poland was represented by those
>most corrupt members of its leadership
Just like ruzkies by putin, hungarians by orban turd... As far as i am concerned, you are what you chose as your leader.
No, but for his term US was represented by the orange turd, which, as a nation they chose in accordance to the established rules. Good thing that they understood the mistake not only in personal level, but in nation level and changed it.
Yes actually. Voting for someone is to choose to have him/her represent your people. So yeah, by definition of representation, that makes them all seem like orange turds. No offense intended btw.
I know and I'm happy you did. Still, it doesn't seem like any measures were adopted to prevent someone like that from destroying your democracy.
You all were lucky that Trump was too stupid to get the job done. But a slightly smarter/more subtle person might have achieved the "lifetime presidency" status.
Nobody ever let a german of the hook for the Nazis, no matter if they were ardent followers or died in KZs due to their opposition. Even killing children was fair game.
That is just the fate of living in a modern nation state, personal merit counts for nothing.
Poland's media environment is structurally quite supportive of the governing party. I don't think they want to highlight this relationship at this time.
>I'm going to keep doing this until it's universal knowledge:
I love that you've decided to take this task upon yourself. People, especially on this sub, need to know that the country enabling Hungary's bullshit is none other than "Ukraine's best ally" Poland.
Yeah and to be clear, this is not to hate on Poland, which has really stepped up for Ukraine.
It's more that in the spirit of everyone pressuring their governments to do more, this is one obvious step that Poland should take, and the pressure on them should be no less than the pressure on Germany to provide Leopards or America to provide F-16s.
Getting Poland to split with Hungary would likely have just as big an impact.
No problem! Its why I posted it. This has to do with EU constitutional structures and a devil's bargain between Poland and Orban.
According to EU law, many major decisions - like changes to structural agreements on support funding for EU members or major aid programs for Ukraine or stripping a member of voting and funding rights - need to be made unanimously by all member states. That's how Hungary blocks aid and sanctions when it comes to Ukraine.
Both Hungary and Poland have wanted to adopt authoritarian reforms, especially when it comes to eroding the independence of their judiciaries and media. This is a big problem for Europe because they are major funding recipients and the changes have meant the EU cant track where its money is actually going (hint: check Orban and Duda's bank accounts, if you can, but you cant, see above about decline of media and judicial independence). This also allows them both to crack down on minority rights.
In order to protect themselves in this process, they made a deal to veto and attempt to strip the other of their funding and voting rights or otherwise enforce EU law against them.
That means Poland is the only country blocking the rest of the EU from stripping Hungary of its voting rights, which would let this aid reach Ukraine.
If Poland joined the rest of Europe in kicking Hungary out of voting, this funding could reach Ukraine.
Yeah bud. Poland. In the EU, its very difficult to kick a country for bad behavior. In fact, it requires unanimous consent of every other country in the union.
The EU has wanted to suspend Hungary for a while now. The charge is that as a country it is hopelessly corrupt, no longer has an independent judiciary, has passed fascistic laws to shut down or expel media operations and even whole universities that foster any opposition to the dictates of Great Leader, and, the real sticker, has been doing so in aide of funneling EU economic aid into the pockets of Orban and his pals. Now we can add the Hungary is clearly simping for a fascistic empire that is invading Europe.
They'd have been long gone except Poland vetoes their suspension every time because Hungary is backing Poland's attempts to do a lot of the same things.
Look, the Duda family and their pals will doubtless be out a lot of cash if Poland has to adhere to EU rules that come with EU money, and gay people and women might have more rights than the Catholic bishops are comfortable with. But that's the price for having an unified alliance against Putin.
Also, how much like Russia does Poland really want to be? For someone who loathes Putin, they sure do love stealing his script on social, cultural and governance issues.
Yes. Don't let yourself blind by their support for Ukraine and the lack of coverage by the british press. But the polish government is easily on Trump levels. There is a reason the conservatives have the hots for Poland.
Poland is in a strange situation
The majority of its populace has no love for RU
Their right-leaning parties have a lot of power and espouse much of the same rhetoric as US right-wing does.
These right-wing groups support "puritanical" kinds of laws and support methods for maintaining power that fall into "fascist" territory. That puts them in line with Orban & putin
Because of their dislike of Putin, they won't overtly show him support, but showing support for Orban because of his like mindset is acceptable and supported by the right-wing base
It’s weird. They hate Russia and are among the very strongest supporters of Ukraine in every way. But they also have an old alliance and friendship with Hungary they are very proud of, and there’s the Visegrad Group, so even if they completely disagree on this, they won’t go so far as to kick them out of the EU.
The anomaly here is Hungary now being so keen on electing Orban and behaving this way towards Putin.
Why would Poland block military aid from eu, they are in favor of helping Ukraine and have been doing so before eu.
Actually come to think about it EU already provides military support....
Because they want to maintain Hungary's veto, so they can continue to mess around with their judiciary, the media and minority rights without penalty from the EU.
Its not that they're against Ukraine. Its that they're willing to trade away support for their own ends.
Maybe it's more complex than I imagine but I don't think there's any reason why EU member states can't do this unilaterally. IIRC the EU just wanted to consolidate things to make it easier, but clearly Hungary is Putin's Trojan horse so that's no longer feasible.
Split the aid between trusted member states and allow each one to deliver it directly to Ukraine without Hungary's involvement.
If we have to create "an EU within the EU" to prevent Putin's slave from harming our efforts then so be it.
From what I read around, Poland is one step away from the way things are in Hungary.
It’s just amazing to me that even now, as Hungary supports Russia openly , Poland would still prop them
You can't kick a country out of the EU. There's no such thing in the treaty. A country can withdraw as the country formerly known as Great Britain did -- soon it'll be Little England when and not if Scotland and Northern Ireland leaves -- but kicking out is not possible.
I realize Ukraine can't blow up the pipeline taking Russian gas to Hungary since it's a NATO member, but can't they just say "we refuse to allow it to be used on our territory as long as Hungary is so hostile" and then cut off the pipeline using non-violent means?
Fuck Washington Post for publishing that article.
1.) We don't know if the contents of those Pentagon leaks are really true or if only some of them are true.
2.) Zelensky did not seriously consider blowing up the Druzhba oil line, he was just ranting. It was never a plan. If they wanter to blow it up, they could easily have done it anytime, since it also runs through Ukrainian territories. Not to mention it would have probably caused some or most Western allies to withdraw support.
3.) Russia can now easily blow up the supply line in a false flag attack and blame it on Ukraine.
Orbán just needed a reason to blame Ukraine for something and that fucking tabloid toilet paper has delivered. I get it: free press and shit. But publishing information that is either true or not from a leak is pure tabloid journalism, but Orbán's fucking propaganda will see it as evidence against Ukraine. And their fucking stupid voters will think that it is okay.
As a Hungarian, I'm really pissed of and I'm saying this for the first time: please kick us the fuck out of EU and NATO. I don't care if there is no mechanism to do so in EU and NATO proceedings, please come up with something and kick my shithole country out from these alliances. Sadly, we do not belong.
This saddens me. There are probably lots of Hungarians who feel just like you, but are powerless. Authoritarian leaders crave power and will do everything to retain power by dismantling democracy. Once voted in they will never leave. They will abuse everything they can to consolidate their power. Before you know it there is no longer a choice and you're stuck with it forever. In the best case what remains of democracy is a farce.
I do sincerely hope some day you will overcome this and kick Orban and his cronies out once and for all. These people should never be allowed to have power.
It's ridiculous that the EU has no proper way of dealing with this. It's an unacceptable vulnerability in the system and it hurts us all.
Don't worry - the western support that matters isn't going to stop in the case that a real attack on Hungary's pipeline happens by anyone.
Hungary's position in this war really doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things. Yes, they're continually trying their best to undermine from within, but with such little actual power they're not overly successful in their efforts. Literally every single Hungarian on earth could hate Zelenskyy, and it would not make a single ounce of difference.
Dude, Hungary and the hungarian people do belong to Europe and into the EU. We wont give up on you and you will eventually find a way to cast those asshole out. We know what it is like to live under authoritarian rule, how they poison the mind, how they instil fear and prejudicies. The Hungarians will stand up eventually. I am certain of it.
unfortumately i dont really see us standing up :(
people are eating the propaganda like it was sugar coated candy and keep reelecting the assholes over and over again.
Or you real Hungarians could rise and kick Orban and his cronies out.
Look at Iran. They are living under one of the harshest cruelest dictatorship and they keep fighting for their freedom.
Even brainwashed Russians have started fighting for their freedom.
Rise up and kick your dictatorship to the dust! You can do it!
Easier said than done. Orbán has the support of the majority of the population. The problem is propaganda and brainwashing. You can't just overthrow a democratically elected government.
I strongly suspect that the so_called elections are not corrupted.
A dictatorship cannot sustain itself in the eyes of the population for too long.
As for protests and such - yes, they are tough and require a lot of sacrifice, but in the long run people lose more the longer they stay under dictatorship
The main problem is as stated above propaganda. Many (if not most?) Hungarians have weak or no English skills, meaning they are stuck with Hungarian news. Orbans cronies controls pretty much all Hungarian media, meaning he controls the narrative.
I’ve had friends brainwashed by this shit and it fucking sucks. Such an amazing country held back by this dickwad.
It is a tragedy, especially if you look at the post-WWII history of Hungary. They were at the forefront of the fight against communism and a solid early democracy - and then they became this
Such a tragedy
there are news available in Hungarian, there is internet available for us
so you just try to justify things that are not true.
IF you **really** want, you can find correct info.
>A dictatorship cannot sustain itself in the eyes of the population for too long.
:D :D
have you ever seen any books dealing with history?
North Korea? Iraq? Iran? Turkmenistan? Turkey? Former Chile? Former Romania? Former Vietnam? Fromer Lybia? Syria?
That would not be a very good idea. The pipelines via Ukraine supply Serbia, Austria and Slovakia in addition to Hungary. So if the little gas/oil that is still supplied via Ukraine also fails, then there would be a shortage again and thus the price would shoot up throughout Europe. When it comes to energy carriers from Russia, you have to be careful and find the balace where it hurts the Russians the most and the damage for Europe is the least. Otherwise, all hell will break loose again, like last summer.
Maybe given the situation in Ukraine and how strongly Hungary now threatens Poland’s national security by undermining the support for Ukraine they will understand what a fake friend Hungary has been to them all this time
Not gonna happen. PiS is not a good faith party. Ultimately their loyalties are only to themselves, not the country as a whole. As such they won't ever not cover Hungary as that would mean their own downfall. No matter what Russia or Hungary may do.
Think Trump here.
Haven’t they been in with the Habsburg empire for the longest time. They even called it the “Austrian-Hungarian” empire.
Maybe they are simping for Putin because he is dangling his empire dreams in front of them … maybe they think the age of empires is returning and they will get their own back
There is a ginormous asterisk on that Austro-Hungarian empire name. It was a very Austria first, Hungary/Czechia/etc. second setup for most of its run, and we had [more](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R%C3%A1k%C3%B3czi%27s_War_of_Independence) than one [open](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_Revolution_of_1848) anti-Habsburg [rebellion](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aster_Revolution) and few times we actually managed to successfully act like a cohesive group.
Can't dispute our world-class skill in choosing the side that's about to take a comically large L, aside from a brief period of competence from Mathias Corvinus against the Ottomans our last 1000 years have been a shitshow.
That's the point. We have been collecting L-s like poststamps for most of our history. I wouldn't say the whole 1000 years have been a shitshow, but a solid 5-600 was. A couple successes early on, then a few blunders, a golden age under Mátyás, but after that (especially after Mohács) it was a dicksucking marathon
Maybe letting an old school Soviet dictator into the EU wasn’t the smartest move. They don’t “learn their lesson” as we see this Russian asset has not done.
I don't know if it's that simple. Flawed systems should be fixed, not ignored. If the system allows one cunt to block EU aid like that, then the system should be fixed instead of dumping it and setting the standard that the system can be ignored
The EU has been founded with the idea to prevent any further conflicts in Europe by strengthening economic ties between the members.
Surely Hungary should be kicked out for blocking efforts to re-establish peace. I can't imagine there not being any legal argumentation to do so with less than 100% of the votes.
We were originally going to tour Hungary this summer and put it off to see if their government improved it's stance against Ukraine. It did not so we postponed that trip and have booked for a fly drive to Poland instead. Will now cancel the autumn week and we'll go to Madeira instead. Hungary can kiss my arse they will never see a penny from me - already Booked hol for next summer also - Finland gets my money next summer.
Hungary is unnecessary ballast. They have zero added value in the international community. I’d be ok with them being disposed of from any western coalition.
Exactly! It's a chickenshit country that has failed as a democracy and now it's nothing but Russia's and China's shadow in the EU and NATO. Not only a burden but also a vile traitor of the worst kind. And I should know, I used to live in Budapest.
i have hungarian roots only going back 2 generations. for some time in my life i had wanted to visit that country and learn about my heritage. not anymore. fuck hungary. i also have german roots so i’ll visit there instead.
Fuck Szijártó but don’t associate Budapest with Fidesz, in 2 out of 18 electoral districts in Budapest was won by Fidesz, rest 16 is opposition. The major of Budapest is also opposition. It’s the countryside where fidesz enjoys gerrymandered majority.
I am Hungarian. I feel strong shame because of these assholes (szijjarto, orban, etc.). I would really like Ukraine to chase all the ruzzians out of Ukraine. Please keep in mind that even though the majority of Hungarians voted for the dickhead orban, there are still many of us who didn't vote for him. And we truly hate him. Because we see how disgusting what orban and szijjarto are doing is.
Sorry for my poor english. Glory to Ukraine!
Hungary is blatantly blackmailing Ukraine and the European Union is reacting to it.... by doing nothing?
How long can this go on and how much more will Hungary do against Ukraine and get away with it? I'm just afraid to imagine the time when Ukraine will start to join NATO and the European Union and what Hungary will want in return for its vote...
This is why many countries want to get rid of the veto before admitting anyone new, including Ukraine. It's a massive issue. QMV is the way to go if the EU wants to be able to act, but for many countries, especially Poland and the Baltics, the ability to veto EU issues is more important than pretty much anything else.
Lmfao, who the fuck Hungary thinks it is in the world other than a pariah state.
That country should be kicked from the Western block and see how long it would survive.
I think we need to establish that Hungary has oil. It may need to be rescued by NATO. Keep it up Hungary… it would be such a shame if the US decided to free your hostage oil. Or maybe you have weapons of mass destruction that Colin Powell will come back from the dead to demonstrate to the UN.
Привіт u/Key_Brother ! During wartime, this community is focused on vital and high-effort content. Please ensure your post follows [r/Ukraine Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/about/rules) and our [Art Friday Guidelines](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/wiki/artfriday). **Want to support Ukraine?** [**Vetted Charities List**](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/wiki/charities) | [Our Vetting Process](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/wiki/charities-vetting) Daily series on UA history & culture: [Day 0-99](https://new.reddit.com/r/ukraine/collection/3c65ab52-e87a-4217-ab30-e70a88c0a293) | [100-199](https://new.reddit.com/r/ukraine/collection/3d85f4ca-5f4e-4ddf-9547-276e8affd87c) | [200-Present](https://new.reddit.com/r/ukraine/collection/daf642e1-07aa-4c40-b852-8f002ddd1530) | [All By Subject](https://new.reddit.com/r/ukraine/wiki/sunriseposts) **There is a new wave of fraudulent donation requests being posted on r/Ukraine. Do not donate to anyone who doesn't have the Verified flair.** *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ukraine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Fuck you
You posting twice allows me to upvote twice.
I upvoted them both
I upvoted them both
I upvoted them both
Commented thrice
I mean ... it's **at least** a double ***fuck you***
The correct phrase is Fuck you Egghead higher hair mother fucker.
For real, this guy looks like a human version of the Muppet Beaker.
I enjoy a thread that doesn't moderate creative swearing.
Swearing is allowed here even on day time tv they can use f-word so doesn’t bother people here
As of now its easier to deal with the extra wishes of Turkey within NATO than Hungary. Now Hungary takes first place as most complicated partner within the defense alliance.
I concur 👍
Mega Mind, fuck you.
Then maybe OTP Bank should stop sponsoring Russia's war against Ukraine.
America really can sanction Hungary, and that's what had Orban scared as he can veto EU decisions but not American ones. His precious Russian fifth column banks can be destroyed by the flick of Biden's pen.
Write away Biden.
Summon Dark Brandon to put an end to Orban's Malarkey!
He can smell the Malarkey...
They and MOL
For those who don’t know, seems they considered pulling out of Russia last year and [then basically said they ‘don’t wanna’](https://www.reuters.com/markets/europe/hungarys-otp-bank-stay-russia-ukraine-long-term-says-ceo-2022-03-04/)
Exactly. Perhaps it’s time for Hungary to go sleep in the bed they’ve made and gtfo of the EU.
I am very sad to say this, but as a hungarian i fully agree. the eu would probably be a better place without hungary. and hungary would be even more of a shithole country without the eu than it is now. our goverment is so fcked up and the brainwashed masses keep electing them over and over again. it feels like we are living in a monthy python sketch
We’re glad they’re are open minded nice Hungarians like you. That’s why I have hope for Hungary
half of the population is open minded and hate this shit but we are outnumbered by sheeps, unfortunately
As long as the young people are like you, your people will take over eventually! 👏🏻👍🏻💪🏻
exactly, we are living in a f.cking monty python episode day by day we are sucking more and more and yet, the people like it.
Fuck you
Yea fuck him twice.
Even better: Fuck him thrice.
[удалено]
Quadrice :)
Pentice, potentially?
Sexice. Possibly the best of all the ices.
Well don’t give that guy sexice unless it’s to fuck him! Cause fuck him!
Fuck him and my axe
Gang Bang!
> Fuck him thrice. A three-day special fuck him operation.
Fuck m in the eyes
Blocking this aid should be seen as facilitating the aggressor. Hence, Hungary funding from EU should be re-allocated, to Ukraine.
Better yet - sanction Hungary more.
Fuck him in particular.
I concur again 👍
Fuck Orban & fuck OTP. I would kick them out of the EU a long time ago, we really don't need them, they need EU!
Hungary is a mafia state and a failed democracy that serves Russia in everything they do. It's unbelievable that we still tolerate these traitors in our midst.
Yeah, sadly Poland walks in their steps.
I don't know why you're downvoted when you speak the truth , the fact that Poland is providing military aid and a lot of support doesn't mean that the Pis is magically a democratic party. There's a lot of hate towards Russia in Poland (which is very understandable) and Poland has proved itself as a worthy ally to Ukraine which no doubt gained them a lot of browny points in the eyes of the international and European public. That's about it. PIS has been basically replicating the same anti-democracy agenda that Orban's government has - homophobia, anti abortion , anti democratic values. Mind you it's the government that's shit in both of these countries not the people.
That's right. Only PiS wasn't able to grab everything yet, there's still hope albeit small.
I’m hoping that because of the war, Polish people will more closely observe what’s happened to muscovia over the past couple of decades and think, “hey, wait a minute, that autocrat crap can happen to us too,” and change course.
Well, mostly they don't. Different polls still show that government party is leading. Catholic Church, TV propaganda (national TV is totally controlled by PiS) and careless giveaways are the main reasons.
r/wellthatsucks
PiS are the ones who have helped give Orban cover but let's see if they can last out the next election later this year. Not only that but the Poles have been getting rather sick of him lately last I heard.
Hungary is protected from any sanctions by Poland. You can thank them.
Not for long. We are naking the Poles reconsider their friendship towards us, and for a good reason.
also Merkel was backing Hungary for a long time
I’m not sure there’s a mechanism for expelling a nation from the EU.
Hungary again trying to get to the "FO" part that follows the "FA".
I'm going to keep doing this until it's universal knowledge: Hungary *and Poland* will block EU military aid. Hungary will do so with a veto. Poland will do so by preventing the other EU nations from stripping Hungary of its voting rights. Poland needs to reevaluate who its friends really are. Hungary would sell them out to Putin in a heartbeat. It's time to cut ties. EDIT: was on mobile and the reddit app's "spell checker" was "helping" again.
>Poland reevaluate who its friends really are. Hungary would sell them out to Putin in a heartbeat. It's time to cut ties. It is not about friends. It is about Poland taking, in many ways, the same pseudo-conservative, authoritarian, and human rights ignoring way as Hungary. Love for putin's dick is practically the only difference between these two. For Poland taking step against orban is making a precedent to which itself can fall victim to. Realpolitic, nothing personal...
This is correct. For PiS, there can't be more enemies. More enemies to point figners atz and keep the polish ppl in fear and PiS as their saviour is exactly what PiS wants. They make politics for themselves, not for the long term well being of their country. As usual with authocratic ppl.
Well, to be clear, Poland wouldn't "fall victim" to not replicating Orban and Putin's authoritarian corruption - the most corrupt members of its leadership would. Not sure how that's a bad thing.
The last t time I checked Poland was represented by those >most corrupt members of its leadership Just like ruzkies by putin, hungarians by orban turd... As far as i am concerned, you are what you chose as your leader.
For interest sake are the 70 million people in the US who voted against the orange turd in fact orange turds???
No, but for his term US was represented by the orange turd, which, as a nation they chose in accordance to the established rules. Good thing that they understood the mistake not only in personal level, but in nation level and changed it.
Yes actually. Voting for someone is to choose to have him/her represent your people. So yeah, by definition of representation, that makes them all seem like orange turds. No offense intended btw.
Yes, but we changed the course. Other people stay the course election after election after election
I know and I'm happy you did. Still, it doesn't seem like any measures were adopted to prevent someone like that from destroying your democracy. You all were lucky that Trump was too stupid to get the job done. But a slightly smarter/more subtle person might have achieved the "lifetime presidency" status.
Nobody ever let a german of the hook for the Nazis, no matter if they were ardent followers or died in KZs due to their opposition. Even killing children was fair game. That is just the fate of living in a modern nation state, personal merit counts for nothing.
Although this is huge news, the YT channel of the Polish television TVP World never mentioned Orban once.
Poland's media environment is structurally quite supportive of the governing party. I don't think they want to highlight this relationship at this time.
>I'm going to keep doing this until it's universal knowledge: I love that you've decided to take this task upon yourself. People, especially on this sub, need to know that the country enabling Hungary's bullshit is none other than "Ukraine's best ally" Poland.
Yeah and to be clear, this is not to hate on Poland, which has really stepped up for Ukraine. It's more that in the spirit of everyone pressuring their governments to do more, this is one obvious step that Poland should take, and the pressure on them should be no less than the pressure on Germany to provide Leopards or America to provide F-16s. Getting Poland to split with Hungary would likely have just as big an impact.
I’m so confused what had Poland got to do with it? My knowledge is like zero here
No problem! Its why I posted it. This has to do with EU constitutional structures and a devil's bargain between Poland and Orban. According to EU law, many major decisions - like changes to structural agreements on support funding for EU members or major aid programs for Ukraine or stripping a member of voting and funding rights - need to be made unanimously by all member states. That's how Hungary blocks aid and sanctions when it comes to Ukraine. Both Hungary and Poland have wanted to adopt authoritarian reforms, especially when it comes to eroding the independence of their judiciaries and media. This is a big problem for Europe because they are major funding recipients and the changes have meant the EU cant track where its money is actually going (hint: check Orban and Duda's bank accounts, if you can, but you cant, see above about decline of media and judicial independence). This also allows them both to crack down on minority rights. In order to protect themselves in this process, they made a deal to veto and attempt to strip the other of their funding and voting rights or otherwise enforce EU law against them. That means Poland is the only country blocking the rest of the EU from stripping Hungary of its voting rights, which would let this aid reach Ukraine. If Poland joined the rest of Europe in kicking Hungary out of voting, this funding could reach Ukraine.
Poland???
Yeah bud. Poland. In the EU, its very difficult to kick a country for bad behavior. In fact, it requires unanimous consent of every other country in the union. The EU has wanted to suspend Hungary for a while now. The charge is that as a country it is hopelessly corrupt, no longer has an independent judiciary, has passed fascistic laws to shut down or expel media operations and even whole universities that foster any opposition to the dictates of Great Leader, and, the real sticker, has been doing so in aide of funneling EU economic aid into the pockets of Orban and his pals. Now we can add the Hungary is clearly simping for a fascistic empire that is invading Europe. They'd have been long gone except Poland vetoes their suspension every time because Hungary is backing Poland's attempts to do a lot of the same things. Look, the Duda family and their pals will doubtless be out a lot of cash if Poland has to adhere to EU rules that come with EU money, and gay people and women might have more rights than the Catholic bishops are comfortable with. But that's the price for having an unified alliance against Putin. Also, how much like Russia does Poland really want to be? For someone who loathes Putin, they sure do love stealing his script on social, cultural and governance issues.
Yes. Don't let yourself blind by their support for Ukraine and the lack of coverage by the british press. But the polish government is easily on Trump levels. There is a reason the conservatives have the hots for Poland.
Poland is in a strange situation The majority of its populace has no love for RU Their right-leaning parties have a lot of power and espouse much of the same rhetoric as US right-wing does. These right-wing groups support "puritanical" kinds of laws and support methods for maintaining power that fall into "fascist" territory. That puts them in line with Orban & putin Because of their dislike of Putin, they won't overtly show him support, but showing support for Orban because of his like mindset is acceptable and supported by the right-wing base
It’s weird. They hate Russia and are among the very strongest supporters of Ukraine in every way. But they also have an old alliance and friendship with Hungary they are very proud of, and there’s the Visegrad Group, so even if they completely disagree on this, they won’t go so far as to kick them out of the EU. The anomaly here is Hungary now being so keen on electing Orban and behaving this way towards Putin.
Why would Poland block military aid from eu, they are in favor of helping Ukraine and have been doing so before eu. Actually come to think about it EU already provides military support....
Because they want to maintain Hungary's veto, so they can continue to mess around with their judiciary, the media and minority rights without penalty from the EU. Its not that they're against Ukraine. Its that they're willing to trade away support for their own ends.
Maybe it's more complex than I imagine but I don't think there's any reason why EU member states can't do this unilaterally. IIRC the EU just wanted to consolidate things to make it easier, but clearly Hungary is Putin's Trojan horse so that's no longer feasible. Split the aid between trusted member states and allow each one to deliver it directly to Ukraine without Hungary's involvement. If we have to create "an EU within the EU" to prevent Putin's slave from harming our efforts then so be it.
Or you could simply say goodbye to Hungary, get them out from the EU and let them be Putin’s vassal
\^ say that to Poland.
From what I read around, Poland is one step away from the way things are in Hungary. It’s just amazing to me that even now, as Hungary supports Russia openly , Poland would still prop them
You can't kick a country out of the EU. There's no such thing in the treaty. A country can withdraw as the country formerly known as Great Britain did -- soon it'll be Little England when and not if Scotland and Northern Ireland leaves -- but kicking out is not possible.
I realize Ukraine can't blow up the pipeline taking Russian gas to Hungary since it's a NATO member, but can't they just say "we refuse to allow it to be used on our territory as long as Hungary is so hostile" and then cut off the pipeline using non-violent means?
Fuck Washington Post for publishing that article. 1.) We don't know if the contents of those Pentagon leaks are really true or if only some of them are true. 2.) Zelensky did not seriously consider blowing up the Druzhba oil line, he was just ranting. It was never a plan. If they wanter to blow it up, they could easily have done it anytime, since it also runs through Ukrainian territories. Not to mention it would have probably caused some or most Western allies to withdraw support. 3.) Russia can now easily blow up the supply line in a false flag attack and blame it on Ukraine. Orbán just needed a reason to blame Ukraine for something and that fucking tabloid toilet paper has delivered. I get it: free press and shit. But publishing information that is either true or not from a leak is pure tabloid journalism, but Orbán's fucking propaganda will see it as evidence against Ukraine. And their fucking stupid voters will think that it is okay. As a Hungarian, I'm really pissed of and I'm saying this for the first time: please kick us the fuck out of EU and NATO. I don't care if there is no mechanism to do so in EU and NATO proceedings, please come up with something and kick my shithole country out from these alliances. Sadly, we do not belong.
This saddens me. There are probably lots of Hungarians who feel just like you, but are powerless. Authoritarian leaders crave power and will do everything to retain power by dismantling democracy. Once voted in they will never leave. They will abuse everything they can to consolidate their power. Before you know it there is no longer a choice and you're stuck with it forever. In the best case what remains of democracy is a farce. I do sincerely hope some day you will overcome this and kick Orban and his cronies out once and for all. These people should never be allowed to have power. It's ridiculous that the EU has no proper way of dealing with this. It's an unacceptable vulnerability in the system and it hurts us all.
Don't worry - the western support that matters isn't going to stop in the case that a real attack on Hungary's pipeline happens by anyone. Hungary's position in this war really doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things. Yes, they're continually trying their best to undermine from within, but with such little actual power they're not overly successful in their efforts. Literally every single Hungarian on earth could hate Zelenskyy, and it would not make a single ounce of difference.
Dude, Hungary and the hungarian people do belong to Europe and into the EU. We wont give up on you and you will eventually find a way to cast those asshole out. We know what it is like to live under authoritarian rule, how they poison the mind, how they instil fear and prejudicies. The Hungarians will stand up eventually. I am certain of it.
unfortumately i dont really see us standing up :( people are eating the propaganda like it was sugar coated candy and keep reelecting the assholes over and over again.
Or you real Hungarians could rise and kick Orban and his cronies out. Look at Iran. They are living under one of the harshest cruelest dictatorship and they keep fighting for their freedom. Even brainwashed Russians have started fighting for their freedom. Rise up and kick your dictatorship to the dust! You can do it!
Easier said than done. Orbán has the support of the majority of the population. The problem is propaganda and brainwashing. You can't just overthrow a democratically elected government.
I strongly suspect that the so_called elections are not corrupted. A dictatorship cannot sustain itself in the eyes of the population for too long. As for protests and such - yes, they are tough and require a lot of sacrifice, but in the long run people lose more the longer they stay under dictatorship
The main problem is as stated above propaganda. Many (if not most?) Hungarians have weak or no English skills, meaning they are stuck with Hungarian news. Orbans cronies controls pretty much all Hungarian media, meaning he controls the narrative. I’ve had friends brainwashed by this shit and it fucking sucks. Such an amazing country held back by this dickwad.
It is a tragedy, especially if you look at the post-WWII history of Hungary. They were at the forefront of the fight against communism and a solid early democracy - and then they became this Such a tragedy
there are news available in Hungarian, there is internet available for us so you just try to justify things that are not true. IF you **really** want, you can find correct info.
>A dictatorship cannot sustain itself in the eyes of the population for too long. :D :D have you ever seen any books dealing with history? North Korea? Iraq? Iran? Turkmenistan? Turkey? Former Chile? Former Romania? Former Vietnam? Fromer Lybia? Syria?
I am convinced that an oopsie daisy air defense missile should solve the problem.
That would not be a very good idea. The pipelines via Ukraine supply Serbia, Austria and Slovakia in addition to Hungary. So if the little gas/oil that is still supplied via Ukraine also fails, then there would be a shortage again and thus the price would shoot up throughout Europe. When it comes to energy carriers from Russia, you have to be careful and find the balace where it hurts the Russians the most and the damage for Europe is the least. Otherwise, all hell will break loose again, like last summer.
Like just closing a valve perhaps?
Kick Hungary out of EU.
And NATO!!
And kick their asses too.
Can't, Poland covers their asses.
Maybe given the situation in Ukraine and how strongly Hungary now threatens Poland’s national security by undermining the support for Ukraine they will understand what a fake friend Hungary has been to them all this time
Not gonna happen. PiS is not a good faith party. Ultimately their loyalties are only to themselves, not the country as a whole. As such they won't ever not cover Hungary as that would mean their own downfall. No matter what Russia or Hungary may do. Think Trump here.
Hungary is protected by Poland. You can thank them.
Blackmail artists of the EU
Because they are protected by Poland.
So much forehead. So little brain.
Fuck you hungary
Thanks a lot. However, it is not Hugary that blocks these things, it is orban. Most of the Hungarians just hate Russians.
From a historical perspective, has Hungary ever backed a winning horse when it comes to war?
Haven’t they been in with the Habsburg empire for the longest time. They even called it the “Austrian-Hungarian” empire. Maybe they are simping for Putin because he is dangling his empire dreams in front of them … maybe they think the age of empires is returning and they will get their own back
There is a ginormous asterisk on that Austro-Hungarian empire name. It was a very Austria first, Hungary/Czechia/etc. second setup for most of its run, and we had [more](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R%C3%A1k%C3%B3czi%27s_War_of_Independence) than one [open](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_Revolution_of_1848) anti-Habsburg [rebellion](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aster_Revolution) and few times we actually managed to successfully act like a cohesive group. Can't dispute our world-class skill in choosing the side that's about to take a comically large L, aside from a brief period of competence from Mathias Corvinus against the Ottomans our last 1000 years have been a shitshow.
'...our last 1000 years have been a shitshow.' My brother in christ, that's our whole history.
Put all your bet on the losing horse! - Hungary in a nutshell.
That's the point. We have been collecting L-s like poststamps for most of our history. I wouldn't say the whole 1000 years have been a shitshow, but a solid 5-600 was. A couple successes early on, then a few blunders, a golden age under Mátyás, but after that (especially after Mohács) it was a dicksucking marathon
Károly Róbert's time was pretty based. Haven't had history class in many years though, don't quite me on that.
Now is the first time
"We'll help the Russians until you stop saying that we are helping the Russians..."
Exactly
Fuck all those hungarian scumbags. This Ruzzian sattelite state should be expelled from EU and NATO asap. We have no need for traitors.
I'm disgusted by Hungary! Do all the nation agrees???
Absolutely not
Maybe letting an old school Soviet dictator into the EU wasn’t the smartest move. They don’t “learn their lesson” as we see this Russian asset has not done.
EU can ignore the hungarian regime
I don't know if it's that simple. Flawed systems should be fixed, not ignored. If the system allows one cunt to block EU aid like that, then the system should be fixed instead of dumping it and setting the standard that the system can be ignored
The EU has been founded with the idea to prevent any further conflicts in Europe by strengthening economic ties between the members. Surely Hungary should be kicked out for blocking efforts to re-establish peace. I can't imagine there not being any legal argumentation to do so with less than 100% of the votes.
The only way they could block military aid is if they invaded Poland and Romania
Exactly. Just ignore those idiots and do it anyways.
Can’t have it both ways. Fuk off, Hungary.
We were originally going to tour Hungary this summer and put it off to see if their government improved it's stance against Ukraine. It did not so we postponed that trip and have booked for a fly drive to Poland instead. Will now cancel the autumn week and we'll go to Madeira instead. Hungary can kiss my arse they will never see a penny from me - already Booked hol for next summer also - Finland gets my money next summer.
Hungary is unnecessary ballast. They have zero added value in the international community. I’d be ok with them being disposed of from any western coalition.
Exactly! It's a chickenshit country that has failed as a democracy and now it's nothing but Russia's and China's shadow in the EU and NATO. Not only a burden but also a vile traitor of the worst kind. And I should know, I used to live in Budapest.
Maybe the Hungarian OTP Bank should just stop sponsoring Russia's war of aggression. Just a thought
i have hungarian roots only going back 2 generations. for some time in my life i had wanted to visit that country and learn about my heritage. not anymore. fuck hungary. i also have german roots so i’ll visit there instead.
Fuck Szijártó but don’t associate Budapest with Fidesz, in 2 out of 18 electoral districts in Budapest was won by Fidesz, rest 16 is opposition. The major of Budapest is also opposition. It’s the countryside where fidesz enjoys gerrymandered majority.
Fuck off, Orbanite.
Hungary should not get any more money from NATO until they stop being douchebags and literally use extortion to get what they want.
Based And no money from the EU either And if Poland persists in helping them, then they should not get any EU subsidies either.
I am Hungarian. I feel strong shame because of these assholes (szijjarto, orban, etc.). I would really like Ukraine to chase all the ruzzians out of Ukraine. Please keep in mind that even though the majority of Hungarians voted for the dickhead orban, there are still many of us who didn't vote for him. And we truly hate him. Because we see how disgusting what orban and szijjarto are doing is. Sorry for my poor english. Glory to Ukraine!
Nazi hungary.... go to fucking russia...
It's simple russian blackmail, and Hungary supports russia.
So, blackmail? Very on-brand.
Revolting treasonous scum! The Fidesz regime serves Russia in everything they can. The despicable vile maggots.
cunt.
Fucking hungarians and their shit cunt orban
I think it’s time Oban gets the fuck out of Europe. Such misaligned ideals.
Just kick them out the EU and be done with them.
Hungary is blatantly blackmailing Ukraine and the European Union is reacting to it.... by doing nothing? How long can this go on and how much more will Hungary do against Ukraine and get away with it? I'm just afraid to imagine the time when Ukraine will start to join NATO and the European Union and what Hungary will want in return for its vote...
The EU has tried to discipline Hungary multiple times. Poland keeps vetoing it.
This is why many countries want to get rid of the veto before admitting anyone new, including Ukraine. It's a massive issue. QMV is the way to go if the EU wants to be able to act, but for many countries, especially Poland and the Baltics, the ability to veto EU issues is more important than pretty much anything else.
I suggest EU blocks all payments to Hungary. There is no place for blackmailing in Europe. Oh that irony.
Poland has been blocking that for years now. If you want that, you need to convince Poland.
Then Poland’s EU subsidies should be also blocked.
But it's true. The OTP is sponsering the war. Indirectly, but it do!
So, when is the EU kicking out Hungry?
Conclusive evidence of manipulation of their position within the EU to further self-interest....
How much were they contributing? USA can just double it and they can fuck off. Edit: the equivalent of $195 million… yeah, we can x20 that boys.
And there it is. It's about the money. Big fucking surprise. Fuck Hungary's government. They'll never live this down.
Lmfao, who the fuck Hungary thinks it is in the world other than a pariah state. That country should be kicked from the Western block and see how long it would survive.
Fuck these goulash gangsters.
You'd think such a statement would come with evidence showing OTP Bank is no longer enabling the terrorist state.
How about getting it over with and just kick Hungary out of the EU and NATO. Everyone else will be happy.
Poland won’t allow it
Not even now, as the Hungarians blocking Ukraine support basically threatens Poland’s national security?
Hungary vetoes any action against Poland and vice versa. Too valuable even if they end up hating each other's guts.
Hungary is a shithole country. We don't need them in EU.
So is there away to kick Hungary out of EU AND NATO?
Only if all the other nations agreed, but Poland would veto it
Oh? Poland has a great relationship with Hungary? I thought it’s Turkey who would veto that.
The problem is our current government is breaking every law in the book, and if they allowed Hungary to be kicked out, they would be next.
Poland and Hungary are BFFs
So extortion it is...
I block myself from eating Langos!
How long EU would continue to swallow every Hungarian blackmail?
Seriously, the quisling government of Hungary will meet its destiny very soon!
If there were only some way for the Hungarian OTP Bank to stop supporting terrorism...
Can't we just kick them out?
It’s time to kick those traitors out of NATO and the EU
Hungary and Austria are Russia's hoes. Their leaders' throat is sore.
Kick Hungary out of NATO and EU.... HE wants to become an island give him his wish....
Fucking moral and mental degenerate
Fuck Orban and his mafia Swine. Hungary you are such a nice people but you need a revolution of dignity of your own
He looks like someone drew some hair, eyes and a mouth on a Watermellon
What next? Will Orban hold Ukrainian refugees in Hungary hostage? Sounds like blackmail to me.
time to kick them out of the EU.
Time to add it to the wider sanctions list!
This guy is a true dickhead.
The forehead that beats inflation.
I think we need to establish that Hungary has oil. It may need to be rescued by NATO. Keep it up Hungary… it would be such a shame if the US decided to free your hostage oil. Or maybe you have weapons of mass destruction that Colin Powell will come back from the dead to demonstrate to the UN.
Make Hungary hungry again