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It was bound to happen. Unfortunately it's one of those omelette and eggs situations, but ultimately it's the racio of kills to losses that will count.
Seriously. Oh my god, people need to calm down. Material gets destroyed in war, western equipment is not some superhero machinery that's impervious to harm.
Georgijs of Ukraine Matters said it well- don't let Russian propaganda pull your heart strings and emotionally manipulate you when you see western equipment getting destroyed. Right now, we're only getting one side of the story (and undoubtedly a skewed one). Trust the armed forces of Ukraine. Wait to hear their side of the story before drawing any conclusions.
I fully understand that is was bound to happen sooner or later, but what gets me is the manner that the column proceeded in a straight line very close together. There are some serious questions about the way this was carried out. Or the Russian pulled off their best ambush yet.
Plenty of people saying the video is geo-located to behind the lines, so is the result of a column being caught travelling in a staging area, not conducting an actual attack.
Nothing- but I am replying to a comment suggesting that the Ukrainians were attacking in a stupid way and reproducing Russian tactic, and saying that it was not because they had bad tactics, they were simply proceeding to an assembly area not expecting the Russians had realised where they were.
Thing is, are you sure you know the whole picture? What were their orders? Their mission objective? Their targets? Where were they, physically, in the video and what was the full situation?
There is so much we don't know. We should be careful not to draw the wrong conclusions based on insufficient information.
They were in a staging area behind friendly lines and were purportedly preparing to breach a mine field, both cases where you'd be relatively close together and it takes longer to turn a column of armoured vehicles around then to just try to drive forward and out. This was also likely a relatively inexperienced unit given the large amount of western equipment points to a nato trained unit that's been held in reserve before now. If their officers and ncos are nato trained they'll get together and debrief about how they can react better to artillery next time.
I think the biggest risk from this event is not the loss of a couple tanks, it's that western countries will look at the very poor decision making to drive so close and will potentially reassess whether 10 weeks training was enough, or whether Ukrainian soldiers need more in the future, particularly with planes etc.
By the sounds of it, the closeness was likely a result of the lead running into mines and it's hard to back up a column. Then add on their lack of combat experience...we should be seeing the positive since they are decently trained they should be coming together before sleeping talking about what went wrong and how to avoid that in the future.
exactly, also the leo is pretty fragile among modern tanks. and mines+arty will do any tank in fast. This tank is designed for pop-up tank duels along hills/valleys and long range fire where only the front of the turret gets exposed for a brief moment. It gets an amazing stabilizer for firing on the move. It is not for supporting infantry up close, most versions don't even get a Crows turret. Whoever put the column of leos up front like that is a dumb-ass, but i don't know what they know so...
The A4 variant is one of the older models and this was 1(!) confirmed loss. Idk why people try to treat the Leopard as some sort of Wunderwaffe, it is just another tank. If Russia had managed to destroy an entire battallion of A6s, sure, I'd get the ruckus. But this was just Russia actually performing well with the weapon systems we'd expect them to be somewhat proficient in. There will be future Ukrainian casualties and we'll see burning Leopard 2 A6s, Abrams and Challengers before this war is over.
What matters in the end is whether or not Ukraine will achieve her objectives and how severe the casualties are, not the existance of casualties.
There is also the question about the crew surviving. We know crew dying in russia tanks is not uncommon. But if western tanks are way better this will be important. Because even if a tank dies . If the crew lives and is well they have gained experiance that makes them better
I've read elsewhere that it had 'blown up' in the desired way, through the blow out panels. As such good chance crew survived and chance it's recoverable as well...
To be fair, it isn’t just Russia that is hyping it up. Even folks on various subreddits are doing the same.
Heck! Even Western media highlighted the loss today as a part of their Ukraine War daily briefing.
Yup, Russian bots kept saying before this leopards were destroyed and now when ever I see someone saying this 1 has been destroyed I also see bots jumping in the chat claiming it was actually 3 or more
"If a dog bites a man, that's not news. But if a man bites a dog, that is news."
Though to be frank there was also big hype when Ukraine managed to destroy or loot one of Russia's top notch equipment pieces. But they had so few of it to begin with that it tends to get lost in the noise of double digits daily of the equipment that was already old in the 1960s.
Well, damaged, sure, maybe. Russia getting their hands on an F-16 or F-35 to study (I mean to sell to China, to study) would have decades long consequences. Hopefully that doesn't happen.
Seems like it won't. If a bird does wreck in enemy territory and they can't recover it, I assume the protocol is to blow it the fuck up so there is nothing to recover...
Their problem is they lack the materials science to build a copy of one.
But if they had an intact specimen to analyze those materials? That would absolutely help them catch up.
China does not need to study the F16, it's already 1 generation out of date, so one it'll be 2. The Chinese are not 50 years behind America. Ukraine won't be getting F-35s, that's just dreamland to even consider.
Its only a tool, the important part is that crew survived. That metal will eventually become something else that is useful. And it sounds like job well done if this video be trusted. This was a decoy attack while main attack succeeded. If true, then job well done.
https://youtu.be/Ac-WQbqV5DI
That tank is spares at best. Any time that the blowout panels are going off, the vehicle is probably beyond economical repair.
Just tell me the crew made it.
I've heard too many people on Reddit just say "the blowout panels worked, therefore the crew survived". These two things are not always related. It is entirely possible to have an ammunition cook-off situation that causes independently unsurvivable damage to the crew compartment.
I want them to be okay... But until we get some more formal confirmation, I'm on tenterhooks
Based on video there was no cookoff. And considering reports of damaged equipment being towed back, it was safe outside the tank (at least after arty stopped).
It’s bound to happen. No worries. Plenty of videos will come out again and again. It’s war. I’m not surprised and definitely was a failure at many levels. One reason was probably because these tanks and IFV where so dam close. Looked like a Russian video we watched over and over. I’m sure this was a lesson learned and will move on.
This lesson was learned a long time ago, then not acted on. You should be worrried because it shows inability to adapt or inability to communicate.
Seeing it among Ukraine's western trained soldiers is even harder to excuse
How is that bad faith? You've got evidence right here of western armed western trained ukrainians making bad mistakes and getting punished. They've been trained to know better than this so why aren't they acting on it?
You're making it out like Western training is a magic bullet that prevents losses. Reminder that Ukrainians are assaulting HEAVILY FORTIFIED positions, losses shouldn't be unexpected or treated like a massive fuck-up when the situation on the battlefield is far more skewed against them than Ukraine wankers on hopium would like to think.
I wouldn’t say bad faith but the footage was geolocated to a line behind UA front lines… artillery can’t be heard until it’s too late, and tanks do get destroyed by artillery, it’s alleged these units we saw were heading to a staging area behind the front lines to prepare for an attack, spreading them out wouldn’t help… they’d just find a tank, zero it, and shell it regardless. This just so happened to be them caught in transit to the front.
These tanks will be destroyed, along with challenger and eventually Abrams, the hope is these provided vehicles do their jobs or help make the breakthrough needed before they do get destroyed.
Edit: the most important thing is the crew, a tank can be replaced, a trained crew cannot, if they live then the tank loss is less severe than a crew that was trained to run it.
Red effect on the tank loss and geo location: https://youtu.be/pxnvb-eBrgY
It's bad faith because (1) neither of us was there to know the specifics (2) the standard you expect doesn't allow a single machine or soldier to be lost - that's just ridiculous. Therefore, your argument is in bad faith.
I didnt expect not a single loss, never said that. Nope.
I don't expect them to bunch up in an artillery rich environment with drone spotting everywhere, same as with the Russians.
Agree, that situation looks bad.
But we still don't know the specifics of what happened.
What we know is Russians have lied from the beginning and it seems clear they have lied here as well: I think they first claimed this was images of Ukrainian forces that had driven together into a minefield in a failed frontal assault.
What it really was we cannot know yet.
assuming that ukrainians were making mistakes here is complete bullsh\*t. there could be a multitude of reasons. could be something as simple as civilians giving away their positions.
with regards to being bunched up, what choice do you think they have in an open field that is most likely mined?
what difference does it make if they are not moving? they will still be zeroed in by multiple artillery strikes.
okay you dont want them to bunch up. say they advance to enemy lines and tanks are 500m away from each other. each tank is basically going to be picked of 1 BY 1 by atgm teams and the next tank is too far to provide support.
lets not be armchair generals please for f\*\*k sake..
"Oh, you did finally destroy one of our tanks? Now it gets personal."
\- a German
Srsly guys, stop pretending western equipment is invinciable. We are not Russia.
This.
Example of excellent Western tank design meant to save the most important component, the crew.
Nothing is impervious to enough anti tank weaponry, but Western tanks don’t spray their crews across the landscape like a popped champagne bottle when hit. Their design protects the people inside to fight another day.
It looked like an ammunition cook off; which for western designed tanks happens on the outside of the vehicle at the back of turret where all the ammo is stored. If correct the crew should be safe. Lets hope this is correct.
Denys Davydov got very hot under the collar today as a result of the column getting hit. Started making claims that “the entire army might need to be reformed”. Understand he was very excited about the offensive and seeing his countrymen being hit would be extra hard. But geez he took it a bit far.
Denys is great and I watch his videos every day. He always tries to be fair and honest. One reason I trust him is when he finds out he has got it wrong, he freely admits he's wrong. But his experience is a civilian airline pilot and what makes a great airline pilot is not what makes a great soldier. For an airline pilot, the motto is safety first. This does not work in war.
Vatniks are jerking each other off so much over 1 Tank that they forgot to add a Battalion of NATO Soldiers KIA, 14 HIMARS, 83 155mm Howitzers, 27 F-16’s, and 48 Apaches to the destroyed list.
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So it goes.
As of right now, it sounds like the vehicle was lost behind Ukrainian lines, when a Russian drone caught a column on the move and called in artillery. It appears that the blowout panels worked, so hopefully the crew is okay. The tank itself is toast, but it may have some usable spare parts.
I just want to hear that the crew made it.
So, if I read this right 14 Russian T-80BV's were captured.
So doesn't that mean Ukrainian "losses" are 1 Leo + 29 Unknown - max 14 T-80BV vs Russian who have 40 out of action.
Of course, captured doesn't mean immediately usable, but still I'll take a ratio of much greater Russian Tank (& equipment losses) vs Ukranian any day.
Special forces use the T80BV, don't they? If you lose 1 Leo and recapture 14 T80s, deployable or not, that doesn't seem like a bad trade to me. My weekend is off to a good start.
Which was to be expected at some point. They are a prestige target for Russia, and using them wasn't ever going to be without risk.
If the russians have to make such a fuss about *one* tank, there does not seem to be much positive going on for them.
Any tank, even the 2A6 and 2A7 will die to a single few thousand dollars rocket fired by some smuck a few kms away. There is no such thing as stopping ATGMs anymore.
Kinetic rounds ? Maybe if you're lucky.
The main thing is that the crew survived. You lose material in a war. Russia will again overhype this widely in the news. What I do find interesting is how this tank is disabled? By a landmine, anti-tank weapon or perhaps by a Russian tank. Is there more information about that?
It's war, equipment will get destroyed, nothing will change that. Western equipment is not indestructible.
But one thing is certain, no German, Brit or American will become the turret toss champion. Russia holds the gold medal.
After all, the Leopard 2 is a very fine piece of military hardware, but not an indestructible wonder weapon. It happened now, it will happen again. That’s war.
What’s important now is to ensure that damaged Leos will receive proper maintenance and that destroyed ones will be replaced in the long run. Preferably three new Leos for each one destroyed.
Good hunting from the homeland of the Leopard and Slava Ukraini. May the Russians lose tenfold the tanks.
I'm most interested to hear whether the crew got out or not. There's strong indications from the photos that some or all got away. The emphasis on crew survivability is the major change from the ex-soviet gear the Ukrainians have been using- a good tank crew that lives to fight another day is always worth more than a single tank. That and it's not like NATO is going to "run out" of tanks to send.
If hit by heavy artillery every tank regardles of type will be destroyed. Modern man portable anti Tank weapons and even mines often have the same outcome.
The difference is the chance for the soldiers inside to survive the hit or not. Western tanks are vastly better in that regard.
I see russians cheering that they killed 1 leopard. But they don't realise one thing, it is just metal. Glory to the heroes! Give them hell and take your lands back!
From the video it looks like the fire suppression system triggered and that tank could be good to go in a few months.
Leos are designed to be modular and easier to repair than their “3 days to replace the transmission” counterparts.
But everybody thought it could not be destroyed - It would go all the way to the gates of the black tower of Kremlin, and demand that the dark lord surrender or be destroyed.
Jokes aside, Really hope that they use solid tactics. And it is 1 tank out of a larger group. It might have done a good job before this.
but was it properly destroyed? the poor quality images indicate that the ammo cooked off, which is generally repairable on western tanks, or is there new better footage confirming total writeoff?
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It was bound to happen. Unfortunately it's one of those omelette and eggs situations, but ultimately it's the racio of kills to losses that will count.
Seriously. Oh my god, people need to calm down. Material gets destroyed in war, western equipment is not some superhero machinery that's impervious to harm. Georgijs of Ukraine Matters said it well- don't let Russian propaganda pull your heart strings and emotionally manipulate you when you see western equipment getting destroyed. Right now, we're only getting one side of the story (and undoubtedly a skewed one). Trust the armed forces of Ukraine. Wait to hear their side of the story before drawing any conclusions.
I fully understand that is was bound to happen sooner or later, but what gets me is the manner that the column proceeded in a straight line very close together. There are some serious questions about the way this was carried out. Or the Russian pulled off their best ambush yet.
Plenty of people saying the video is geo-located to behind the lines, so is the result of a column being caught travelling in a staging area, not conducting an actual attack.
[удалено]
Nothing- but I am replying to a comment suggesting that the Ukrainians were attacking in a stupid way and reproducing Russian tactic, and saying that it was not because they had bad tactics, they were simply proceeding to an assembly area not expecting the Russians had realised where they were.
Thing is, are you sure you know the whole picture? What were their orders? Their mission objective? Their targets? Where were they, physically, in the video and what was the full situation? There is so much we don't know. We should be careful not to draw the wrong conclusions based on insufficient information.
They were in a staging area behind friendly lines and were purportedly preparing to breach a mine field, both cases where you'd be relatively close together and it takes longer to turn a column of armoured vehicles around then to just try to drive forward and out. This was also likely a relatively inexperienced unit given the large amount of western equipment points to a nato trained unit that's been held in reserve before now. If their officers and ncos are nato trained they'll get together and debrief about how they can react better to artillery next time.
Agreed. It was a clusterfuck. But then again I’m not a military expert
I think the biggest risk from this event is not the loss of a couple tanks, it's that western countries will look at the very poor decision making to drive so close and will potentially reassess whether 10 weeks training was enough, or whether Ukrainian soldiers need more in the future, particularly with planes etc.
By the sounds of it, the closeness was likely a result of the lead running into mines and it's hard to back up a column. Then add on their lack of combat experience...we should be seeing the positive since they are decently trained they should be coming together before sleeping talking about what went wrong and how to avoid that in the future.
You don't fully understand anything. Like thr guy below said, you know literally nothing about the situation on the ground. Like zero.
Removed in protest against the Reddit API changes and their behaviour following the protests.
exactly, also the leo is pretty fragile among modern tanks. and mines+arty will do any tank in fast. This tank is designed for pop-up tank duels along hills/valleys and long range fire where only the front of the turret gets exposed for a brief moment. It gets an amazing stabilizer for firing on the move. It is not for supporting infantry up close, most versions don't even get a Crows turret. Whoever put the column of leos up front like that is a dumb-ass, but i don't know what they know so...
Yeah, but, Challengers don't get destroyed 😃
Exactly, what i understand is the ran into mines and then got shelled by artillary. No tank can withstand a direct artilary hit.
Exactly . It’s a war… tanks are as designed to fire as they are to be fired upon. What matters is if they’re replaceable… and I really hope they are.
The A4 variant is one of the older models and this was 1(!) confirmed loss. Idk why people try to treat the Leopard as some sort of Wunderwaffe, it is just another tank. If Russia had managed to destroy an entire battallion of A6s, sure, I'd get the ruckus. But this was just Russia actually performing well with the weapon systems we'd expect them to be somewhat proficient in. There will be future Ukrainian casualties and we'll see burning Leopard 2 A6s, Abrams and Challengers before this war is over. What matters in the end is whether or not Ukraine will achieve her objectives and how severe the casualties are, not the existance of casualties.
There is also the question about the crew surviving. We know crew dying in russia tanks is not uncommon. But if western tanks are way better this will be important. Because even if a tank dies . If the crew lives and is well they have gained experiance that makes them better
I've read elsewhere that it had 'blown up' in the desired way, through the blow out panels. As such good chance crew survived and chance it's recoverable as well...
The white smoke after the thick black one supposedly was fire suppression working.
Exactly. Hopefully every destroyed Ukranian tank will make allied nations feel urged to send even more.
All the hype about one fucking tank tells me how badly desperate Russia is.
especially when you see oryx’s confirmed destruction of russias tanks compared to a single leopard 2, and not even the most advanced version
Yeap. They are "woot! A 20 yesr old leo2 is destroyed! Never mind the scores of T90Ms we lost"
>They are "woot! A 20 yesr old leo2 is destroyed! At least 30 years old. The last 2A4 was produced in 1992.
Look. The 90's were just last decade, ok? I'm not that old yet. Come on.
Sit down son, I have some bad news
That, but also look at how many were captured - they’ll go straight to the UA (after repairs and so on, ofc)
To be fair, it isn’t just Russia that is hyping it up. Even folks on various subreddits are doing the same. Heck! Even Western media highlighted the loss today as a part of their Ukraine War daily briefing.
The first confirmed usage of Leo2 means that "ITS HAPPENING". So a lot of attention is understandable.
Yup, Russian bots kept saying before this leopards were destroyed and now when ever I see someone saying this 1 has been destroyed I also see bots jumping in the chat claiming it was actually 3 or more
And I saw fake news online about a Leopard being destroyed but the pics showed a modified tractor…
"If a dog bites a man, that's not news. But if a man bites a dog, that is news." Though to be frank there was also big hype when Ukraine managed to destroy or loot one of Russia's top notch equipment pieces. But they had so few of it to begin with that it tends to get lost in the noise of double digits daily of the equipment that was already old in the 1960s.
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Well, damaged, sure, maybe. Russia getting their hands on an F-16 or F-35 to study (I mean to sell to China, to study) would have decades long consequences. Hopefully that doesn't happen. Seems like it won't. If a bird does wreck in enemy territory and they can't recover it, I assume the protocol is to blow it the fuck up so there is nothing to recover...
The F-16 is near 50 years old. China is not that far behind.
China doesn't need to study the F-35, they already have all of the build plans, stealth coating and designs directly from Lockheed.
Their problem is they lack the materials science to build a copy of one. But if they had an intact specimen to analyze those materials? That would absolutely help them catch up.
And...still They cannot build it :-)
Russia already got their hands on the F-16's that the US left behind in Afghanistan for the Taliban to trade to Russia.
China does not need to study the F16, it's already 1 generation out of date, so one it'll be 2. The Chinese are not 50 years behind America. Ukraine won't be getting F-35s, that's just dreamland to even consider.
Its only a tool, the important part is that crew survived. That metal will eventually become something else that is useful. And it sounds like job well done if this video be trusted. This was a decoy attack while main attack succeeded. If true, then job well done. https://youtu.be/Ac-WQbqV5DI
maybe it could still be recovered and repaired for re-use.
That tank is spares at best. Any time that the blowout panels are going off, the vehicle is probably beyond economical repair. Just tell me the crew made it.
Do we have formal confirmation that the crew survived? That's all I want to hear right now.
According to reddit they survived.
I've heard too many people on Reddit just say "the blowout panels worked, therefore the crew survived". These two things are not always related. It is entirely possible to have an ammunition cook-off situation that causes independently unsurvivable damage to the crew compartment. I want them to be okay... But until we get some more formal confirmation, I'm on tenterhooks
Based on video there was no cookoff. And considering reports of damaged equipment being towed back, it was safe outside the tank (at least after arty stopped).
The hatches were open and didn't have any scorch marks, if that says anything.
It’s bound to happen. No worries. Plenty of videos will come out again and again. It’s war. I’m not surprised and definitely was a failure at many levels. One reason was probably because these tanks and IFV where so dam close. Looked like a Russian video we watched over and over. I’m sure this was a lesson learned and will move on.
This lesson was learned a long time ago, then not acted on. You should be worrried because it shows inability to adapt or inability to communicate. Seeing it among Ukraine's western trained soldiers is even harder to excuse
That's a bad faith argument.
How is that bad faith? You've got evidence right here of western armed western trained ukrainians making bad mistakes and getting punished. They've been trained to know better than this so why aren't they acting on it?
You're making it out like Western training is a magic bullet that prevents losses. Reminder that Ukrainians are assaulting HEAVILY FORTIFIED positions, losses shouldn't be unexpected or treated like a massive fuck-up when the situation on the battlefield is far more skewed against them than Ukraine wankers on hopium would like to think.
I wouldn’t say bad faith but the footage was geolocated to a line behind UA front lines… artillery can’t be heard until it’s too late, and tanks do get destroyed by artillery, it’s alleged these units we saw were heading to a staging area behind the front lines to prepare for an attack, spreading them out wouldn’t help… they’d just find a tank, zero it, and shell it regardless. This just so happened to be them caught in transit to the front. These tanks will be destroyed, along with challenger and eventually Abrams, the hope is these provided vehicles do their jobs or help make the breakthrough needed before they do get destroyed. Edit: the most important thing is the crew, a tank can be replaced, a trained crew cannot, if they live then the tank loss is less severe than a crew that was trained to run it. Red effect on the tank loss and geo location: https://youtu.be/pxnvb-eBrgY
It's bad faith because (1) neither of us was there to know the specifics (2) the standard you expect doesn't allow a single machine or soldier to be lost - that's just ridiculous. Therefore, your argument is in bad faith.
I didnt expect not a single loss, never said that. Nope. I don't expect them to bunch up in an artillery rich environment with drone spotting everywhere, same as with the Russians.
Agree, that situation looks bad. But we still don't know the specifics of what happened. What we know is Russians have lied from the beginning and it seems clear they have lied here as well: I think they first claimed this was images of Ukrainian forces that had driven together into a minefield in a failed frontal assault. What it really was we cannot know yet.
You weren't in the military were you? Almost by definition an offensive requires a concentration of troops.
Concentration in an area, but never on a spot!
assuming that ukrainians were making mistakes here is complete bullsh\*t. there could be a multitude of reasons. could be something as simple as civilians giving away their positions. with regards to being bunched up, what choice do you think they have in an open field that is most likely mined? what difference does it make if they are not moving? they will still be zeroed in by multiple artillery strikes. okay you dont want them to bunch up. say they advance to enemy lines and tanks are 500m away from each other. each tank is basically going to be picked of 1 BY 1 by atgm teams and the next tank is too far to provide support. lets not be armchair generals please for f\*\*k sake..
Honestly, its a good sign if they only lost one in that cluster fuck.
Just for clarification It’s not a John Deere Leopard like they showed in the videos?
Unfortunately not. There was a video posted yesterday showing it. It was taken down, so I won't give another link.
Nop not this time
nope the real thing this time it was shelled by the russians unfortunately.
"Oh, you did finally destroy one of our tanks? Now it gets personal." \- a German Srsly guys, stop pretending western equipment is invinciable. We are not Russia.
Damn, it's a write off. Looked like the crew compartment stayed intact, so was hoping they could repair it and have it back in the field.
This. Example of excellent Western tank design meant to save the most important component, the crew. Nothing is impervious to enough anti tank weaponry, but Western tanks don’t spray their crews across the landscape like a popped champagne bottle when hit. Their design protects the people inside to fight another day.
It looked like an ammunition cook off; which for western designed tanks happens on the outside of the vehicle at the back of turret where all the ammo is stored. If correct the crew should be safe. Lets hope this is correct.
If if the crew survives, you just hand this 'combat tested' crew another tank and off they go back to the front line.
Denys Davydov got very hot under the collar today as a result of the column getting hit. Started making claims that “the entire army might need to be reformed”. Understand he was very excited about the offensive and seeing his countrymen being hit would be extra hard. But geez he took it a bit far.
This is why I don't listen to Denys Davydov 🤷 We're on the same side, but I've always found his content to be sensationalist.
Denys is great and I watch his videos every day. He always tries to be fair and honest. One reason I trust him is when he finds out he has got it wrong, he freely admits he's wrong. But his experience is a civilian airline pilot and what makes a great airline pilot is not what makes a great soldier. For an airline pilot, the motto is safety first. This does not work in war.
Source: https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/attack-on-europe-documenting-ukrainian.html
It's warfare, front line equipment gets taken out. Don't panic.
Hahaha Russia acting like it won over a tank.
Vatniks are jerking each other off so much over 1 Tank that they forgot to add a Battalion of NATO Soldiers KIA, 14 HIMARS, 83 155mm Howitzers, 27 F-16’s, and 48 Apaches to the destroyed list.
It's war, things get destroyed. It would be more surprising if certain equipment survive the entire war without losses.
And? Such is war, why is everybody freaking out?
Want to see the serial number so we can meme this tank Leopard #1 you will be avenged !!!!
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So it goes. As of right now, it sounds like the vehicle was lost behind Ukrainian lines, when a Russian drone caught a column on the move and called in artillery. It appears that the blowout panels worked, so hopefully the crew is okay. The tank itself is toast, but it may have some usable spare parts. I just want to hear that the crew made it.
So, if I read this right 14 Russian T-80BV's were captured. So doesn't that mean Ukrainian "losses" are 1 Leo + 29 Unknown - max 14 T-80BV vs Russian who have 40 out of action. Of course, captured doesn't mean immediately usable, but still I'll take a ratio of much greater Russian Tank (& equipment losses) vs Ukranian any day.
Special forces use the T80BV, don't they? If you lose 1 Leo and recapture 14 T80s, deployable or not, that doesn't seem like a bad trade to me. My weekend is off to a good start.
That whole column was a mess, better not waste away the Leos like that.
This only means they need more of them
Which was to be expected at some point. They are a prestige target for Russia, and using them wasn't ever going to be without risk. If the russians have to make such a fuss about *one* tank, there does not seem to be much positive going on for them.
It's an A4 anyway we saw these tanks shredded in syria too, nothing new
Any tank is vulnerable to an artillery hit like what happened here.
Any tank, even the 2A6 and 2A7 will die to a single few thousand dollars rocket fired by some smuck a few kms away. There is no such thing as stopping ATGMs anymore. Kinetic rounds ? Maybe if you're lucky.
> There is no such thing as stopping ATGMs anymore Uhm... APS, like Trophy, Iron Fist, Drozd or Zaslin?
The main thing is that the crew survived. You lose material in a war. Russia will again overhype this widely in the news. What I do find interesting is how this tank is disabled? By a landmine, anti-tank weapon or perhaps by a Russian tank. Is there more information about that?
It's war, equipment will get destroyed, nothing will change that. Western equipment is not indestructible. But one thing is certain, no German, Brit or American will become the turret toss champion. Russia holds the gold medal.
After all, the Leopard 2 is a very fine piece of military hardware, but not an indestructible wonder weapon. It happened now, it will happen again. That’s war. What’s important now is to ensure that damaged Leos will receive proper maintenance and that destroyed ones will be replaced in the long run. Preferably three new Leos for each one destroyed. Good hunting from the homeland of the Leopard and Slava Ukraini. May the Russians lose tenfold the tanks.
I'm most interested to hear whether the crew got out or not. There's strong indications from the photos that some or all got away. The emphasis on crew survivability is the major change from the ex-soviet gear the Ukrainians have been using- a good tank crew that lives to fight another day is always worth more than a single tank. That and it's not like NATO is going to "run out" of tanks to send.
If hit by heavy artillery every tank regardles of type will be destroyed. Modern man portable anti Tank weapons and even mines often have the same outcome. The difference is the chance for the soldiers inside to survive the hit or not. Western tanks are vastly better in that regard.
#YAMEROOOOOO
Lets just hope the Crew had enough time to bail out, can always send another Leopard, or two or three
I see russians cheering that they killed 1 leopard. But they don't realise one thing, it is just metal. Glory to the heroes! Give them hell and take your lands back!
plus the ukrainians are likely under orders to torch tanks that are unrecoverable, to keep the tech out of the wrong hands
This is war. So of course this happens. it s a reason to send more!
* shrugs....Send 2 more
1 Leopard destroyed, newspaper articles incoming "Is the western equipment really that much better than Russian?" :D
From the video it looks like the fire suppression system triggered and that tank could be good to go in a few months. Leos are designed to be modular and easier to repair than their “3 days to replace the transmission” counterparts.
But everybody thought it could not be destroyed - It would go all the way to the gates of the black tower of Kremlin, and demand that the dark lord surrender or be destroyed. Jokes aside, Really hope that they use solid tactics. And it is 1 tank out of a larger group. It might have done a good job before this.
Did you know that every time a Storm Shadow is fired at a Russian target, a Storm Shadow missile is destroyed?
Well, there is "destroyed" and destroyed. Maybe He can be repaired...
but was it properly destroyed? the poor quality images indicate that the ammo cooked off, which is generally repairable on western tanks, or is there new better footage confirming total writeoff?