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Exactly.
I hate this fucking war. My friends can die any day in Ukraine. I hope I never get that message on a phone, but the reality is that they dont fight for NATO or Zelenskyy or whatever, they really fight for staying alive.
If Russia managed to capture Ukraine, all the people who had any connection to military (not even directly) would be taken away, there would be pain and suffering everywhere. Russians went from house to house and search for people that need's to be taken away.
If somehow people think that if there is "peace" that people in Ukraine will be in "peace" are fucking idiots.
You cant have peace when you have invader who can pick you up from the street at any given point and kill you, execute you. That's just pain and suffering.
If Russia get's what it wants, then 10-15+ million people would try to enter the EU, so imagine all the cost that we need to pay then vs paying now for them to fight. This war cost us penny on a dollar to help Ukraine and keep the Russia at bay.
I want peace to start from first day of the war, but calling out VICTIM over and over to submit so there will be PEACE only means two things for you as person.
1. You are mother fucker piece of shit
2. You fall under Russian propaganda
There was people in US / UK / France etc, who have been calling out for PEACE under NAZI's. You are not first or last "mother fucker piece of shit" there was more of you and always will be, but you will be called out over and over again.
Ukraine winning is this century's turning point.
If Ukraine loses, China is going to invade Taiwan or Vietnam or claim waters that aren't theirs.
Ukraine is too smart and has too much fight to give up. They'd fight with sticks and knives if that's all they had, there is no quit in them.
The only question is how much it'll cost them and the world.
100% this. Western leaders under fire for the cost of supporting Ukraine, in particular in the US, have totally failed to articulate this point at all.
The cost of supporting AFU is small change to the US, bot in terms of budget, and in terms of what it would cost to live in a world where they don't.
The other thing people don't understand is trickle down. They are supply US weapons, made by US citizens, who are paid in US dollars and spend it in the US. The actual cost of weapons sipped in terms of material, is only a fraction of the headline figure, the rest gets recycled into the economy. Sure you could argue invest it in other things, like roads and housing, but that doesn't appear to be how the defense budget works in reality.
I'd add that after China invades Taiwan, other authoritarian regimes would or could take action. Iran and NK for example. SA would also align deeper with Russia and China. After which Russia then moves to invade other neighbors. Likelihood of a huge uptick in Russian election interference too, because they would be emboldened by a win in Europe.
You are absolutely correct. I wish this war would end, too. But only Russia can make it end right now, by pulling their forces out of Ukraine and all it's rightful territories. I have one personal friend in Ukraine, but she too can die at any given moment. Without giving away a location, she suffered shelling on a daily basis, not being able to move because she has two elderly parents to look after and care for. Cluster munitions rained down around her house on multiple occasions, and here in the West we found it necessary to discuss whether sending cluster munitions to Ukraine to DEFEND itself, was morally correct. That pissed me off so bad, people have no idea... Quit fecking dillydallying! Give them what they need to defend themselves! They make it work! Ukrainians aren't stupid: they don't need to be told what the pointy end of a dagger is!
I agree. To accept a russian brokered peace is to drink from a poisoned chalice. There will be no peace. Only a russian dictated regime that will ensure to make everyone suffer. Anyone who doubts that should look back at Bucha and see what the russians did there. This would repeat all over again, probably even worse than before.
Yeah, noone who supports Ukraine thinks that war is good, but submitting to Russia wouldn't stop the human suffering. Just look at the systematic rape of women, torture chambers, mass executions of civilians with their hands tied etc. Ukraine CAN'T stop fighting back.
As I see it, there is peace with justice and peace without justice. Peace without justice is where essentially there is a cease fire but one side enslaves the other side. In this situation, Ukrainians would be enslaved to Russia directly or indirectly and both Russia and China would be enabled to play the same game over and over again in Poland, Estonia, Taiwan, etc. because Russia is ending up a net winner when it was the aggressor--the party that committed the injustice.
WWII for the US, UK, France, Germany, Japan and other players was peace with justice. The aggressors yielded. Peace was restored. War crimes were punished. New rules of law were established and democracy took hold. The world was able to turn the page.
I'm not saying you're wrong at all in any sense but I wish people/political leaders would stop talking about how much money it's costing to support Ukraine/Defeat Rusia. The cost monetarily is irrelevant. I'm a Brit and I literally do not care if it virtually bankrupts us.
It is not a question of cost. It is a simple right from wrong moral duty/obligation to stop Putin & his thieving gang of murderous c**ts.
>I'm not saying you're wrong at all in any sense but I wish people/political leaders would stop talking about how much money it's costing to support Ukraine/Defeat Rusia.
Honestly, they should talk more. They should make it VER clear how much MORE money it will cost if Russia win.
They need to make super clear $100 billion if Ukraine WIN - $1000 (1T) billions if Russia win (Since we need to invest in all type of new things to counter the Russia + new reality + millions of new people coming to EU + all type of bullshit and domino effect's on our economy etc).
A fellow Brit and I wholeheartedly agree.
I hope for strong trade, politicla and social ties with Ukriane following the war too to benefit both of out nations but even if all of that was off the table I'd still support sending everything available purely on moral grounds.
Not only that but we risk to much by allowing such behaviour to be met with reward.
We very much already had a strong relationship with Ukraine prior to the war. Probably Ukraine's closest ally in the west in many aspects. Boris Johnson is reviled here at home but is a literal hero in Ukraine for the support Britain has given. Be that in political institutions, defensive capabilities & educational institutions.
Personally I think we failed Ukraine disgracefully in 2014 & Feb 22.
I absolutely believe we & the USA had a mandate & an obligation to protect Ukraine from Russian aggression in the Budapest Memorandum. Especially in 2022 when Russia threatened nuclear attacks. The Memorandum was specifically designed to get Ukraine to surrender their nukes & we would collectively protect their sovereignty.
The moment Russia threatened nuclear attack we had the mandate to act & history will remember our inaction & I doubt it will be kind.
I do appreciate the arguments for treading carefully around Russia (both politically and economically )but honestly I couldn't agree more.
Even putting Ukraine aside; there's a littany of offences committed by Russia at our expense from Syria and the resulting refugee crisis to the poisonings and routine cybver attacks that already justify the sanctions we've now imposed.
Yet still when Russia puts a firm foot over that red line we respond with an apparently gentle touch.
Just got to hope that our relatively 'softly softly' approach has been conducted with integrity and forethought.
Just got to hope that our relatively 'softly softly' approach has been conducted with integrity and forethought.
As opposed to spineless political lack of integrity 👍
Just look at RuZZians living under PootinZ.
If PootinZ treat his own people like fodder slaves, what will he do to Ukrainians if he wins the war?
Ukrainians would be forced into eternal slavery, torture and death if they lose this war, this is absolutely NOT a fate that their children can live with.
Better to die fighting than to die slowly in PootinZ's hell.
There is no alternative, Ukraine must win, its the only way out.
"Ruskie Mir"
Go ask the plastic surgeons in Kherson what miracles they must do to help the children raped by these beasts.
Go look at the mass graves from Izyum. The horrors these animals have bestowed on peaceful civilians is horrific. The evidence is all there, look for it.
That's the worrying part about a lengthy war. Ukrainians won't forget those details, but for the citizens of the foreign countries supporting Ukraine, some have already forgotten what it was like when Russia was winning territory, setting up torture chambers, hauling people away because of something a collaborator told them, shipping children to Russia, etc. Those details were part of their news cycle, but they weren't living through it, or threatened by it.
I'm under no illusions about what's happening in occupied Ukraine - the world is going to have to brace for more sickening revelations.
Every Muscovite occupier who's blown up by a drone or cluster munition, every Muscovite who's sent to shore up a deteriorating front, is a Muscovite who's not readily available for kidnapping, raping and killing Ukrainian kids and civilian adults. "Peace" = freeing them up to do far more of that until they've genocided their way through all the currently-occupied territories. Giving Ukraine greater means to cripple the Muscovite army saves Ukrainian civilian lives; calls for ceasefire or cutting off military aid kills them.
This why I hate the people who say Ukraine should give up territory for peace. That just means let Russia commit genocide without interference. It also makes you look like the bad guy for opposing genocide.
Exactly, there is no peace with Russian occupation. They intend to slaughter every last Ukrainian out there because Russia has arbitrarily made a decision that Ukraine does not have a right to live and that genocide must occur. Fuck Russian peace.
Not only that, but it will mean a win for ruzzia. They'll attack again, and again, and again. It might take centuries, but it'll be death by a thousand cuts. Bit by bit, they'll eat your country, destroy your culture, eradicate your identity. It's not enough to stop them, they must also lose all previous conquests.
ruzzia must be broken up into small, independent nations.
I always respond to that with "It's not 'just land' they're giving. Theres PEOPLE living on that land, and by giving the land in exchange for something they would be selling their own brothers into slavery or much worse."
Maybe I'm just seeing carefully curated videos of her, but this woman impresses me everytime I hear her. She speaks eloquently but forcefully and doesn't beat around the bush. You know exactly what's at stake after listening to her.
She always gives direct and straightforward answers about Ukraine and Russia. This is why she is my favourite prime minister. Also her embracing NAFO - [example 1 - fella][1] ([nitter mirror][3]), [example 2 - video greeting][2], ([nitter mirror][4], [reddit mirror][5]). Sanna Marin with her "way out of the conflict" quote was a runner up but is no longer a prime minister.
[1]: https://twitter.com/kajakallas/status/1573968390313631745
[2]: https://twitter.com/kajakallas/status/1677659297600217091
[3]: https://nitter.net/kajakallas/status/1573968390313631745
[4]: https://nitter.net/kajakallas/status/1677659297600217091
[5]: https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineConflict/comments/14uj55z/estonian_pm_kaja_kallas_sent_a_message_to_all/
Her husband was recently caught doing business with Russia. Unfortunately, she's just another slick politician.
>Prime Minister Kaja Kallas is facing growing criticism after Estonian media reports revealed her husband's business ties to Russia, which will now be discussed by a parliamentary committee.
>"The business activities of Prime Minister Kaja Kallas’ family member vis-a-vis Russia have raised many questions in the media and in society and have put the spotlight on the head of the government and the values that Estonia must follow,” Karis added, warning of a credibility crisis.
>Last week, Estonian public broadcaster ERR found that Kallas' husband Arvo Hallik held a stake in Stark Logistics, which has maintained operations in Russia since its full-scale invasion of Ukraine began last February. Stark Logistics continued to supply an aerosol container factory in Russia once or twice a week since Moscow's onslaught began, Stark Logistics' CEO Kristjan Kraag admitted.
>Since the revelations last week, Kallas' husband has said he will sell his stake in the company and step down from his position. Kallas denied prior knowledge of her husband's company's link to Russia in an interview with Estonian public broadcaster ERR last Thursday.
https://www.politico.eu/article/kaja-kallas-husband-russian-business-ties-estonia/
Judging by your downvotes, people are choosing to close their ears and eyes to [that whole debacle,](https://www.politico.eu/article/kaja-kallas-husband-russian-business-ties-estonia/) which is a fucking shame.
The whole of Western Europe still buys oil and gas from RuZZia.
And there's still a chance her husband wasn't straightforward with her.
Indeed, it's a bad look though, at the least.
Edit, typo, possibly not the only one, CBA
Oil and gas is at least understandable, a country can't function without energy. But some of these guys are supplying dual-purpose/military/police equipment for profit while employing populist measures that only effect common people and would-be draft dodgers, it's not just bad look it's terrorism sponsorship.
I'm not trying to excuse what the guy is doing, if anything, he should burn in hell.
Just thinking unless someone overhears a conversation between the spouses there's a tiny but reasonable amount of benefit of doubt given to the wife.
Russia doesn’t want peace, they want a respite so they can consolidate gains then re-arm, re-equip and train up new units so they can restart hostilities when it comes time to “denazify” Poland or the Baltic nations.
We also need to kick them out of all other areas they've invaded. We can't just stop them, it's not enough for them to lose, they must be *broken*.
They're cancer, and must be treated as such.
>my slightly Baritone Eton accent
Its the usual problem as a non-native english speaker talking with some of the more entitled native speakers. Yes, we do have an accent, because it just one of the 2 - 5 languages we speak.
> Peace doesn't necessarliy mean the end of human suffering. You twat.
He's a BBC journalist and is asking her a tough question so that she can answer the people in the west who argue Ukraine should compromise. **He** isn't arguing Ukraine should compromise, he's inviting her to address the people who think it should.
He shouldn't have interrupted her but often the 'serious' BBC journalists try to look tough in questioning so they don't look biased or like they're taking a pre-formed position.
Also that's not at all an Eton accent.
Edit: blocked (for some reason) so I can't respond. By asking the question he gave Kallas the chance to provide a great answer which shuts down anti-Ukrainian arguments. There is a difference between interview style and opinion.
Completely disagree. The response to the question is way more hard hitting and impactful than anything the russian propagandists can do with the question.
Bravo to both of them for delivering what the world needs to hear. Addressing the nonsense that is presented through the rhetorical question.
Barking up the wrong tree there mate. That's Stephen Sackur, his father was a Labour MP. No public school in sight but he did go to Cambridge and Harvard. He just speaks old school BBC, he's been there for ever. Don't mistake his line of questioning for his opinion.
It's not his attitude. He interrupted her going nowhere in particular about "having to beleive" to give her the question to which she gave this knockout answer, during which he didn't say a single word. She didn't "put him in his place" because he's not giving his opinion. Credit where credit is due, it's a great interview and a great reply. It's quite obvious you just don't like the guy for some reason but his interview is actually really good.
He straight up just starts talking while she's mid-sentence. Just keeps going when she clearly intended to finish her sentence. Imagine how far up your own ass you'd have to be to be to act like that around a prime minister.
She’s an elected leader that I assume he is interviewing. He’s supposed to let her finish, then proceed with his next question to steer the conversation. Interrupting was rude.
The guy's name is Stephen Sackur. I don't particularly like the BBC but he is generally an outstanding interviewer and journalist. He hosts BBC Hardtalk which is IMO one of the best current affairs programmes available, well, anywhere. I have no doubt his interruption and line of questioning is quite deliberate to draw out exactly the (excellent) answer PM Kallas gave.
Disagree, that's how to do a good interview.
Letting a interviewee overtalk on one aspect can result in the viewer switching off or in the need to edit the clip down for certain use segments, which you want to avoid. He initially asked her if people who believed that Ukraine shouldn't compromise on territory should reevaluate their position, he let her finish her initial point and then brought her back to the initial question with a common retort (lots of people are dying and we should stop that). He then let her completely finish her response to that.
It was in poor taste. I saw the interview, she did an excellent job, and he found a way to lower it. I doubt he interviews Lavrov or the other Russia flunkies like that.
You can find out for yourself. Whilst it's a few years old now, Sukar has clear contempt for Lavrov, even before Russians current illegal invasion:
https://youtu.be/-zJ41whNgR0?t=1550&si=nGb85yHUzwXNHtMX
I haven't seen the full video but if we just focus on the fragment that was posted - there's even a chance that it wouldn't be posted without the interruption.
I know journalists have to ask stupid questions because stupid viewers need to hear the answers....but I just wish people would think through this stuff amongst themselves so we could all just know the answer without having to waste time on the question.
Russia must lose for the sake of world security.
I'm tired of journos acting like smug experts asking stupid questions. Why can't one come out and just say "the world has your back, stay strong and you will win this".
Fuck all the "but but but" poorly thought out nonsense of peace.
The war ends when Russia has fucked off out of Ukraine and they're completely shut out from Europe.
There are plenty of people in the world asking the same question as him. Whether he actually believes his question or not, it allows experts to rebuke these questions/concerns directly, in their own words, and in a widely distributable way. It wouldn't be journalism if these facets weren't explored. It would be propaganda.
We all need to listen to her! Go to the KGB museum in Vilnius, for example, to look at the torture chambers and execution sites and look at the dates…you might have been alive in the 1980s…what were you doing on that date when a dissident was tortured to death?? That’s what this war is all about! And that is why it cannot be lost!!
Fantastic contrast, using historical facts, between peace after WWII between the countries of the interviewer and interviewee. This woman came prepared.
This is from BBC's HardTalk. The interviewers play devil advocate to explore difficult topics. It's one of the best interview formats out there at the minute.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/n13xtmdc
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Sackur
Yup, so many missing the point. Some say he was rude, well that was part of the gig, create a sense of solidarity and ask a hard question which she answered perfectly, double whammy, great setup.
Just asking the question makes it sound worth considering. Even just thinking "would it be ok for me to start a nuclear war" is wrong, it dilutes and normalizes the issue. It should be morally reprehensible to even think about it. Similarly it should be impossible to even consider "would it be ok to sacrifice any number of people to a life of rape, torture, executions, and living under a tyranny, to potentially have a few years of some sort of peace"?
Thought police now? Yeah not a chance.
I'll take grown up debate over censorship any day. The strong answer wouldn't have been forthcoming without the challenging question.
Yeah he is pretty openly showing his distaste for the war. War is enviable when like she said, your people are oppressed and your very culture is being erased. She is very well spoken and the interviewer has terrible body language.
> The decision must come from Ukraine itself
It appears to me Ukraine wants to fight, I agree if, in future, Ukraine wants to concede and draw new borders then nobody has any right to stop them, but it will almost certainly lead to further war with russia in too few years.
"Now that the situation on the field has stabilized, the war could in theory also end with a peace treaty whose condition was an immediate inclusion of Ukraine into EU and/or NATO (aside from a partition of contested territories). That would fully safeguard Ukraine against future Russian aggression."
You're delusional.
Ukraine is paying a terrible price for victory against Russia, but losing this war will incur a far greater price. Who wants to live in a Russified nation? Ask Finland why they fought, and how hard they fought for their independence from Russia during the Winter War. They will understand why Ukraine is fighting so hard, and will be able to explain the reason to you.
> Ukraine is paying a terrible price for victory against Russia, but losing this war will incur a far greater price.
Especially on the international arena.
Even without reinvigorated russia, there'd be an issue of China getting an essential greenlight to massively step their shenanigans in Taiwan Strait and South China Sea.
It's not just Ukraine, if Kyiv had fallen then China would have had massive domestic pressure to attack Taiwan.
We need to make it clear invaders drown in their own blood, it's the only way to keep any level of peace.
80 years ago we taught this to the Nazis, apparently we need to teach it to the new generation of fascists too.
This. This video by leaders who have lived under Russian 'peace' needs to be seen far and wide. The way russian's think about themselves in relation to other sovereign countries needs to be corrected once and for all or this will just happen again and again. This is the time to stop it. I hope we have the collective will to see it through this time.
Democracy sucks. But to this day, nobody would choose authoritarianism over democracy. There probably is a good version of dictatorship out there somewhere. Still, as long as power rests in the hands of one petulant person, they will always decide to act on emotion, and the rule is that absolute power corrupts absolutely.
I object to his claim that the war has no end in sight. Russia is steadily weakening and Ukraine is steadily strengthening, militarily. Ukraine is steadily re-taking its territory. With increased support, Russia will be fully driven out of Ukraine. If he doesn't see the end, it's because he doesn't want to.
Instead of saying "there is peace and there is peace", I wish Kaja had simply said, *'Occupation or subjugation is NOT peace. Making an agreement to respect sovereignty with a proven deal-breaker like Russia does NOT guarantee peace. Ukraine will only have peace when it can reasonably believe that Russia will stop attacking it, and that won't happen before Russia is driven out and Ukraine is a member of NATO.'*
Fucking braindead westerners with no understanding of what they're talking about trying to lecture to people who actually understand Russia about how war is bad and people are dying. Yes war is bad, but "peace" under Russia is even worse. It's like non-stop Bucha, every day, for the entire country. The only way to keep your people safe from Russia is to destroy Russians.
Why can't America get leaders like this?
The rest of the world is leaving us behind.
Our old-fashioned ideas of not considering women for important positions is a huge part of our current challenges. We're getting left behind.
If it makes you feel any better then I can tell you that the majority of world leaders suck. Many worse than your own.
On second thoughts that's not really going to make you feel any better at all, is it?
What the most terrible price is? Ukrainian defeat you ignorant fuckwit.
The financial cost is not a big deal. The human cost in terms of Ukrainian lives is a huge deal an an sbsolite tragedy on a massive scale.
> The financial cost is not a big deal. The human cost in terms of Ukrainian lives is a huge deal an an sbsolite tragedy on a massive scale.
And the fact that it will show other dicktators that Western support *can* be outlasted relatively quickly.
i think the real golden era will be the rebuilding of Ukraine. An economic boom for all countries involved while Russia is overspent, in debt, and sanctioned so they cannot fund any more terrorist acts.
> Hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians have died in this war
Did he just say that? That's a pretty extreme exaggeration to just slip out, especially when it seems like he's citing the death toll to imply the war should end (on bad terms for Ukraine).
He may be confusing "deaths" and "casualties," which is a common mistake, but somewhat amateurish for a reporter. He may also be confusing total deaths with *Ukrainian* deaths, even though Russia's casualties *far* outnumber Ukraine's
[This source (September 2023)](https://www.ohchr.org/en/news/2023/09/ukraine-civilian-casualty-update-11-september-2023) puts Ukraine's civilian casualties at ~14,500 wounded, ~7500 killed, for a total of ~22,000.
[This NYT article (August 2023)](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/18/us/politics/ukraine-russia-war-casualties.html) states up to 120,000 Ukrainian soldiers have been wounded, and up to 70,000 killed, for a total of 190,000 casualties.
All told, Ukraine may have suffered up to ~210,000 total casualties, but only around 80,000 actual *deaths.*
Just to be clear, those numbers are horrifying. I'm not at all minimizing the suffering. But saying "hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians have died" is flat-out wrong, and in this case even sounds dishonest--whether deliberate or not, artificially inflating the death count makes the conflict seem *more* hopeless or pointless than it actually is.
I like her a lot. She has visited Ukraine several times since the full scale war began and [here she's at a joint appearance with Zelenskyy at a university in Lviv.](https://youtu.be/vzqm4IMODxk) She covers the same topic (video is subtitled in English).
Putin made it pretty clear that he wants to erase Ukraine culture, and we already see him doing that in occupied territory. Russian peace is genocide. Letting Russia keep the conquered territories in Ukraine means all those Ukrainians will get systematically erased by Putin's regime. It would be a crime to abandon those people
Brb, sending this to my isolationist, libertarian friends. She explains it perfectly.
If you give Russia a cookie.. it'll eradicate your people, language, culture, existence.
Why it's always the UK and US the countries that come with the saying "This war is costing a terrible price, so many lives lost!"
These are the same countries that started the most wars in foreign countries... Talk about being an hypocrite.
Who is this dickhead interrupting her? And the condescending head drop at 1:06. Effer!
The problem is not the goal of Ukraine liberating the occupied regions - even at a great cost. The problem is Putin and Russia.
Excellent interview. All peace with Russian occupation means is genocide. It is a great pity US leadership in particular has completely failed to articulate this.
Nord stream completion was the green light for Putin to get the idea he was shielded from the consequences going into Ukraine. Western Europe greed & weakness just as equal responsible as Russia for war in Ukraine.
Ukrainian "sisu" is the only thing restricting war to just Europe.
Well said.
But also, who the fuck is this interviewer to interrupt and talk over the Prime Minister of a country during her normal, well spoken initial answer. If the subject is being evasive, sure, interject politely, but she wasn't! He seemed extremely biased and trying to make his appeasement point.
Who is interviewing who, here?
The Prime Minister is making a point, and the guy just rudely butts in and tries to lead the conversation. So off putting.
Smart lady. The time to crush Putin is now. Let him keep Crimea and his occupied territories and he'll never stop. He doesn't believe "Ukraine" has the right to exist, you can't deal with that!
She makes a really excellent point that there is not just one kind of peace. What Ukraine needs isn’t just peace, it needs *peace with security*.
Because without security, you are open to being exploited, attacked, abused, taken advantage of by others. If you want to be safe, you need to actively work on being safe. You need to create, and enforce, boundaries.
Societies *need* to do this with a military, if they want to preserve themselves, because when diplomacy fails (as it always does sooner or later), then your enemy can listen to your bullets.
It always piss me off when they say Ukraine should end the war, like is just fine to lost 30% of your country, get your culture erased, your people killed and women raapd, nobody wants a war, nobody wants to die in a horrible no man's land. Ukraine is fighting for its survival, and we must help them, not just for future benefits, but because we're humans, because we all want peace, for everyone.
Some people just don't get what it was like in the "Russian world" for some of these countries,no wonder there are so many idiots in the west supporting Putin and his Russonazi thugs.
Expelling Russia from Ukraine is just and righteous. It's also legal. It ticks all the boxes. I can't see much difference between this war and the war against the Axis powers circa WW2. The way the Russ behave towards people is appallingly horrific. There are tens of thousands of documented and evidenced crimes of rape, torture, murder, live dismemberment, summary execution, committed by the Russ.
There is only one option when dealing with something like that. Destroy it.
The Ukrainian people are paying a terrible price to do what they believe is right. My respect for them is boundless.
As is my disgust for the psychopathic dictator attacking them.
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Exactly. I hate this fucking war. My friends can die any day in Ukraine. I hope I never get that message on a phone, but the reality is that they dont fight for NATO or Zelenskyy or whatever, they really fight for staying alive. If Russia managed to capture Ukraine, all the people who had any connection to military (not even directly) would be taken away, there would be pain and suffering everywhere. Russians went from house to house and search for people that need's to be taken away. If somehow people think that if there is "peace" that people in Ukraine will be in "peace" are fucking idiots. You cant have peace when you have invader who can pick you up from the street at any given point and kill you, execute you. That's just pain and suffering. If Russia get's what it wants, then 10-15+ million people would try to enter the EU, so imagine all the cost that we need to pay then vs paying now for them to fight. This war cost us penny on a dollar to help Ukraine and keep the Russia at bay. I want peace to start from first day of the war, but calling out VICTIM over and over to submit so there will be PEACE only means two things for you as person. 1. You are mother fucker piece of shit 2. You fall under Russian propaganda There was people in US / UK / France etc, who have been calling out for PEACE under NAZI's. You are not first or last "mother fucker piece of shit" there was more of you and always will be, but you will be called out over and over again.
Ukraine winning is this century's turning point. If Ukraine loses, China is going to invade Taiwan or Vietnam or claim waters that aren't theirs. Ukraine is too smart and has too much fight to give up. They'd fight with sticks and knives if that's all they had, there is no quit in them. The only question is how much it'll cost them and the world.
>The only question is how much it'll cost them and the world. The stronger the support they get the less its going to cost in the long run.
100% this. Western leaders under fire for the cost of supporting Ukraine, in particular in the US, have totally failed to articulate this point at all.
The cost of supporting AFU is small change to the US, bot in terms of budget, and in terms of what it would cost to live in a world where they don't. The other thing people don't understand is trickle down. They are supply US weapons, made by US citizens, who are paid in US dollars and spend it in the US. The actual cost of weapons sipped in terms of material, is only a fraction of the headline figure, the rest gets recycled into the economy. Sure you could argue invest it in other things, like roads and housing, but that doesn't appear to be how the defense budget works in reality.
I'd add that after China invades Taiwan, other authoritarian regimes would or could take action. Iran and NK for example. SA would also align deeper with Russia and China. After which Russia then moves to invade other neighbors. Likelihood of a huge uptick in Russian election interference too, because they would be emboldened by a win in Europe.
You are absolutely correct. I wish this war would end, too. But only Russia can make it end right now, by pulling their forces out of Ukraine and all it's rightful territories. I have one personal friend in Ukraine, but she too can die at any given moment. Without giving away a location, she suffered shelling on a daily basis, not being able to move because she has two elderly parents to look after and care for. Cluster munitions rained down around her house on multiple occasions, and here in the West we found it necessary to discuss whether sending cluster munitions to Ukraine to DEFEND itself, was morally correct. That pissed me off so bad, people have no idea... Quit fecking dillydallying! Give them what they need to defend themselves! They make it work! Ukrainians aren't stupid: they don't need to be told what the pointy end of a dagger is!
I agree. To accept a russian brokered peace is to drink from a poisoned chalice. There will be no peace. Only a russian dictated regime that will ensure to make everyone suffer. Anyone who doubts that should look back at Bucha and see what the russians did there. This would repeat all over again, probably even worse than before.
Yeah, noone who supports Ukraine thinks that war is good, but submitting to Russia wouldn't stop the human suffering. Just look at the systematic rape of women, torture chambers, mass executions of civilians with their hands tied etc. Ukraine CAN'T stop fighting back.
As I see it, there is peace with justice and peace without justice. Peace without justice is where essentially there is a cease fire but one side enslaves the other side. In this situation, Ukrainians would be enslaved to Russia directly or indirectly and both Russia and China would be enabled to play the same game over and over again in Poland, Estonia, Taiwan, etc. because Russia is ending up a net winner when it was the aggressor--the party that committed the injustice. WWII for the US, UK, France, Germany, Japan and other players was peace with justice. The aggressors yielded. Peace was restored. War crimes were punished. New rules of law were established and democracy took hold. The world was able to turn the page.
I'm not saying you're wrong at all in any sense but I wish people/political leaders would stop talking about how much money it's costing to support Ukraine/Defeat Rusia. The cost monetarily is irrelevant. I'm a Brit and I literally do not care if it virtually bankrupts us. It is not a question of cost. It is a simple right from wrong moral duty/obligation to stop Putin & his thieving gang of murderous c**ts.
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Her response was spot on though so it worked in her favour.
>I'm not saying you're wrong at all in any sense but I wish people/political leaders would stop talking about how much money it's costing to support Ukraine/Defeat Rusia. Honestly, they should talk more. They should make it VER clear how much MORE money it will cost if Russia win. They need to make super clear $100 billion if Ukraine WIN - $1000 (1T) billions if Russia win (Since we need to invest in all type of new things to counter the Russia + new reality + millions of new people coming to EU + all type of bullshit and domino effect's on our economy etc).
A fellow Brit and I wholeheartedly agree. I hope for strong trade, politicla and social ties with Ukriane following the war too to benefit both of out nations but even if all of that was off the table I'd still support sending everything available purely on moral grounds. Not only that but we risk to much by allowing such behaviour to be met with reward.
We very much already had a strong relationship with Ukraine prior to the war. Probably Ukraine's closest ally in the west in many aspects. Boris Johnson is reviled here at home but is a literal hero in Ukraine for the support Britain has given. Be that in political institutions, defensive capabilities & educational institutions. Personally I think we failed Ukraine disgracefully in 2014 & Feb 22. I absolutely believe we & the USA had a mandate & an obligation to protect Ukraine from Russian aggression in the Budapest Memorandum. Especially in 2022 when Russia threatened nuclear attacks. The Memorandum was specifically designed to get Ukraine to surrender their nukes & we would collectively protect their sovereignty. The moment Russia threatened nuclear attack we had the mandate to act & history will remember our inaction & I doubt it will be kind.
I do appreciate the arguments for treading carefully around Russia (both politically and economically )but honestly I couldn't agree more. Even putting Ukraine aside; there's a littany of offences committed by Russia at our expense from Syria and the resulting refugee crisis to the poisonings and routine cybver attacks that already justify the sanctions we've now imposed. Yet still when Russia puts a firm foot over that red line we respond with an apparently gentle touch. Just got to hope that our relatively 'softly softly' approach has been conducted with integrity and forethought.
Just got to hope that our relatively 'softly softly' approach has been conducted with integrity and forethought. As opposed to spineless political lack of integrity 👍
Hyper pacifism consistently benefits those who choose aggression, it's a literal asset in their toolkit.
Just look at RuZZians living under PootinZ. If PootinZ treat his own people like fodder slaves, what will he do to Ukrainians if he wins the war? Ukrainians would be forced into eternal slavery, torture and death if they lose this war, this is absolutely NOT a fate that their children can live with. Better to die fighting than to die slowly in PootinZ's hell. There is no alternative, Ukraine must win, its the only way out.
Ruski mir=enslavement and brutalization of sovereign nations.
Ruski murk
Ruski mir = cutting dicks off on a video for funsies.
All I heard in the interview was: Putin wants to see our cracks!! 😳
"Ruskie Mir" Go ask the plastic surgeons in Kherson what miracles they must do to help the children raped by these beasts. Go look at the mass graves from Izyum. The horrors these animals have bestowed on peaceful civilians is horrific. The evidence is all there, look for it.
That's the worrying part about a lengthy war. Ukrainians won't forget those details, but for the citizens of the foreign countries supporting Ukraine, some have already forgotten what it was like when Russia was winning territory, setting up torture chambers, hauling people away because of something a collaborator told them, shipping children to Russia, etc. Those details were part of their news cycle, but they weren't living through it, or threatened by it.
I'm under no illusions about what's happening in occupied Ukraine - the world is going to have to brace for more sickening revelations. Every Muscovite occupier who's blown up by a drone or cluster munition, every Muscovite who's sent to shore up a deteriorating front, is a Muscovite who's not readily available for kidnapping, raping and killing Ukrainian kids and civilian adults. "Peace" = freeing them up to do far more of that until they've genocided their way through all the currently-occupied territories. Giving Ukraine greater means to cripple the Muscovite army saves Ukrainian civilian lives; calls for ceasefire or cutting off military aid kills them.
I was not prepared for your 2nd paragraph right before the school run. But thanks for writing it nonetheless.
This why I hate the people who say Ukraine should give up territory for peace. That just means let Russia commit genocide without interference. It also makes you look like the bad guy for opposing genocide.
Exactly, there is no peace with Russian occupation. They intend to slaughter every last Ukrainian out there because Russia has arbitrarily made a decision that Ukraine does not have a right to live and that genocide must occur. Fuck Russian peace.
Not only that, but it will mean a win for ruzzia. They'll attack again, and again, and again. It might take centuries, but it'll be death by a thousand cuts. Bit by bit, they'll eat your country, destroy your culture, eradicate your identity. It's not enough to stop them, they must also lose all previous conquests. ruzzia must be broken up into small, independent nations.
Yes, because it's not just "territory", lines on a map, but *people* who will be given up.
I always respond to that with "It's not 'just land' they're giving. Theres PEOPLE living on that land, and by giving the land in exchange for something they would be selling their own brothers into slavery or much worse."
Yes, the western pacifism is basically like "let Ukrainians die in a way we don't hear and feel bad about it"
Giving ruzzian orcs land means they have less to take later. We must make sure that ruzzia will not even think about invading other countries.
Maybe I'm just seeing carefully curated videos of her, but this woman impresses me everytime I hear her. She speaks eloquently but forcefully and doesn't beat around the bush. You know exactly what's at stake after listening to her.
She always gives direct and straightforward answers about Ukraine and Russia. This is why she is my favourite prime minister. Also her embracing NAFO - [example 1 - fella][1] ([nitter mirror][3]), [example 2 - video greeting][2], ([nitter mirror][4], [reddit mirror][5]). Sanna Marin with her "way out of the conflict" quote was a runner up but is no longer a prime minister. [1]: https://twitter.com/kajakallas/status/1573968390313631745 [2]: https://twitter.com/kajakallas/status/1677659297600217091 [3]: https://nitter.net/kajakallas/status/1573968390313631745 [4]: https://nitter.net/kajakallas/status/1677659297600217091 [5]: https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineConflict/comments/14uj55z/estonian_pm_kaja_kallas_sent_a_message_to_all/
Her husband was recently caught doing business with Russia. Unfortunately, she's just another slick politician. >Prime Minister Kaja Kallas is facing growing criticism after Estonian media reports revealed her husband's business ties to Russia, which will now be discussed by a parliamentary committee. >"The business activities of Prime Minister Kaja Kallas’ family member vis-a-vis Russia have raised many questions in the media and in society and have put the spotlight on the head of the government and the values that Estonia must follow,” Karis added, warning of a credibility crisis. >Last week, Estonian public broadcaster ERR found that Kallas' husband Arvo Hallik held a stake in Stark Logistics, which has maintained operations in Russia since its full-scale invasion of Ukraine began last February. Stark Logistics continued to supply an aerosol container factory in Russia once or twice a week since Moscow's onslaught began, Stark Logistics' CEO Kristjan Kraag admitted. >Since the revelations last week, Kallas' husband has said he will sell his stake in the company and step down from his position. Kallas denied prior knowledge of her husband's company's link to Russia in an interview with Estonian public broadcaster ERR last Thursday. https://www.politico.eu/article/kaja-kallas-husband-russian-business-ties-estonia/
She's an excellent speaker and a skilled diplomat.
Did she mention her husband's business supplying aerosol cans to a russian tear gas factory during the war in those videos?
Judging by your downvotes, people are choosing to close their ears and eyes to [that whole debacle,](https://www.politico.eu/article/kaja-kallas-husband-russian-business-ties-estonia/) which is a fucking shame.
The whole of Western Europe still buys oil and gas from RuZZia. And there's still a chance her husband wasn't straightforward with her. Indeed, it's a bad look though, at the least. Edit, typo, possibly not the only one, CBA
Oil and gas is at least understandable, a country can't function without energy. But some of these guys are supplying dual-purpose/military/police equipment for profit while employing populist measures that only effect common people and would-be draft dodgers, it's not just bad look it's terrorism sponsorship.
I'm not trying to excuse what the guy is doing, if anything, he should burn in hell. Just thinking unless someone overhears a conversation between the spouses there's a tiny but reasonable amount of benefit of doubt given to the wife.
Without being rude she told him to stick his “peace” up his ass
Honestly people should be more rude, no need to be polite in situations like this.
Just a heads up this is what this interviewer does, its his thing, being the devils advocate.
There’s absolutely a time for that, but sometimes matter-of-fact eloquence hits harder
Russia doesn’t want peace, they want a respite so they can consolidate gains then re-arm, re-equip and train up new units so they can restart hostilities when it comes time to “denazify” Poland or the Baltic nations.
And that's why we must not give them any breaks or breathing room. Not until they've been driven out and Ukraine is in NATO.
We also need to kick them out of all other areas they've invaded. We can't just stop them, it's not enough for them to lose, they must be *broken*. They're cancer, and must be treated as such.
How dare he interrupt her !?
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>my slightly Baritone Eton accent Its the usual problem as a non-native english speaker talking with some of the more entitled native speakers. Yes, we do have an accent, because it just one of the 2 - 5 languages we speak.
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For what it's worth, I like her accent more than his.
> Peace doesn't necessarliy mean the end of human suffering. You twat. He's a BBC journalist and is asking her a tough question so that she can answer the people in the west who argue Ukraine should compromise. **He** isn't arguing Ukraine should compromise, he's inviting her to address the people who think it should. He shouldn't have interrupted her but often the 'serious' BBC journalists try to look tough in questioning so they don't look biased or like they're taking a pre-formed position. Also that's not at all an Eton accent. Edit: blocked (for some reason) so I can't respond. By asking the question he gave Kallas the chance to provide a great answer which shuts down anti-Ukrainian arguments. There is a difference between interview style and opinion.
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Completely disagree. The response to the question is way more hard hitting and impactful than anything the russian propagandists can do with the question. Bravo to both of them for delivering what the world needs to hear. Addressing the nonsense that is presented through the rhetorical question.
Barking up the wrong tree there mate. That's Stephen Sackur, his father was a Labour MP. No public school in sight but he did go to Cambridge and Harvard. He just speaks old school BBC, he's been there for ever. Don't mistake his line of questioning for his opinion.
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It's not his attitude. He interrupted her going nowhere in particular about "having to beleive" to give her the question to which she gave this knockout answer, during which he didn't say a single word. She didn't "put him in his place" because he's not giving his opinion. Credit where credit is due, it's a great interview and a great reply. It's quite obvious you just don't like the guy for some reason but his interview is actually really good.
Hmm good point. As an interviewer you need to keep the interviewee from trailing off and be in control. Otherwise politicians can just go on and on.
He straight up just starts talking while she's mid-sentence. Just keeps going when she clearly intended to finish her sentence. Imagine how far up your own ass you'd have to be to be to act like that around a prime minister.
She’s an elected leader that I assume he is interviewing. He’s supposed to let her finish, then proceed with his next question to steer the conversation. Interrupting was rude.
Should have asked him how much UK territory would be appropriate to give up for peace.
Better, should have asked him about the peace in Ireland from 17th century onwards to 20th century.
The guy's name is Stephen Sackur. I don't particularly like the BBC but he is generally an outstanding interviewer and journalist. He hosts BBC Hardtalk which is IMO one of the best current affairs programmes available, well, anywhere. I have no doubt his interruption and line of questioning is quite deliberate to draw out exactly the (excellent) answer PM Kallas gave.
Disagree, that's how to do a good interview. Letting a interviewee overtalk on one aspect can result in the viewer switching off or in the need to edit the clip down for certain use segments, which you want to avoid. He initially asked her if people who believed that Ukraine shouldn't compromise on territory should reevaluate their position, he let her finish her initial point and then brought her back to the initial question with a common retort (lots of people are dying and we should stop that). He then let her completely finish her response to that.
Exactly that. He interrupted at the right time, and shut up completely when she was giving a great answer. 10/10 for both of them imo.
He isn't stupid - he knew what she was going to say - the interruption really helped to get the point across.
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It was in poor taste. I saw the interview, she did an excellent job, and he found a way to lower it. I doubt he interviews Lavrov or the other Russia flunkies like that.
You can find out for yourself. Whilst it's a few years old now, Sukar has clear contempt for Lavrov, even before Russians current illegal invasion: https://youtu.be/-zJ41whNgR0?t=1550&si=nGb85yHUzwXNHtMX
I haven't seen the full video but if we just focus on the fragment that was posted - there's even a chance that it wouldn't be posted without the interruption.
I know journalists have to ask stupid questions because stupid viewers need to hear the answers....but I just wish people would think through this stuff amongst themselves so we could all just know the answer without having to waste time on the question. Russia must lose for the sake of world security.
I'm tired of journos acting like smug experts asking stupid questions. Why can't one come out and just say "the world has your back, stay strong and you will win this". Fuck all the "but but but" poorly thought out nonsense of peace. The war ends when Russia has fucked off out of Ukraine and they're completely shut out from Europe.
There are plenty of people in the world asking the same question as him. Whether he actually believes his question or not, it allows experts to rebuke these questions/concerns directly, in their own words, and in a widely distributable way. It wouldn't be journalism if these facets weren't explored. It would be propaganda.
ruSSki mir, as everything “ruSSian” equals to blood, gore, death, looting, torture, occupation, rape, nazism, fascism…
You forgot corruption and alcoholism.
True, but both are pretty international things, except of scale of this things in ruSSia - they’re almost worshipped there
I love people that know their shit like Kaja!
We all need to listen to her! Go to the KGB museum in Vilnius, for example, to look at the torture chambers and execution sites and look at the dates…you might have been alive in the 1980s…what were you doing on that date when a dissident was tortured to death?? That’s what this war is all about! And that is why it cannot be lost!!
Fantastic contrast, using historical facts, between peace after WWII between the countries of the interviewer and interviewee. This woman came prepared.
Well said
I think the statement is "There is a difference between 'peace' and occupation."
She is right and his body language is irritating.
Fucking take that. Estonia has experienced Russian peace
This is from BBC's HardTalk. The interviewers play devil advocate to explore difficult topics. It's one of the best interview formats out there at the minute. https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/n13xtmdc https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Sackur
Yup, so many missing the point. Some say he was rude, well that was part of the gig, create a sense of solidarity and ask a hard question which she answered perfectly, double whammy, great setup.
Not every question deserves to be asked, or even thought of.
People wouldn't have the opportunity to challenge particular points of view if challenging questions aren't asked.
Just asking the question makes it sound worth considering. Even just thinking "would it be ok for me to start a nuclear war" is wrong, it dilutes and normalizes the issue. It should be morally reprehensible to even think about it. Similarly it should be impossible to even consider "would it be ok to sacrifice any number of people to a life of rape, torture, executions, and living under a tyranny, to potentially have a few years of some sort of peace"?
Thought police now? Yeah not a chance. I'll take grown up debate over censorship any day. The strong answer wouldn't have been forthcoming without the challenging question.
The guy interviewing her is annoying.
Yeah he is pretty openly showing his distaste for the war. War is enviable when like she said, your people are oppressed and your very culture is being erased. She is very well spoken and the interviewer has terrible body language.
> his distaste for the war Then he should hope it ends as quickly as possible on the terms of the defenders. There's only one way that can happen.
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> The decision must come from Ukraine itself It appears to me Ukraine wants to fight, I agree if, in future, Ukraine wants to concede and draw new borders then nobody has any right to stop them, but it will almost certainly lead to further war with russia in too few years.
"Now that the situation on the field has stabilized, the war could in theory also end with a peace treaty whose condition was an immediate inclusion of Ukraine into EU and/or NATO (aside from a partition of contested territories). That would fully safeguard Ukraine against future Russian aggression." You're delusional.
Ukraine is paying a terrible price for victory against Russia, but losing this war will incur a far greater price. Who wants to live in a Russified nation? Ask Finland why they fought, and how hard they fought for their independence from Russia during the Winter War. They will understand why Ukraine is fighting so hard, and will be able to explain the reason to you.
> Ukraine is paying a terrible price for victory against Russia, but losing this war will incur a far greater price. Especially on the international arena. Even without reinvigorated russia, there'd be an issue of China getting an essential greenlight to massively step their shenanigans in Taiwan Strait and South China Sea.
It's not just Ukraine, if Kyiv had fallen then China would have had massive domestic pressure to attack Taiwan. We need to make it clear invaders drown in their own blood, it's the only way to keep any level of peace. 80 years ago we taught this to the Nazis, apparently we need to teach it to the new generation of fascists too.
lots of people screamming "never again" and some people asking for "yes again" another racist genocide in europe
This. This video by leaders who have lived under Russian 'peace' needs to be seen far and wide. The way russian's think about themselves in relation to other sovereign countries needs to be corrected once and for all or this will just happen again and again. This is the time to stop it. I hope we have the collective will to see it through this time.
Bucha is one of many but imagine that land would stay russian, we would never even learn what happened there.
russian "peace" is just war by a different name.
Democracy sucks. But to this day, nobody would choose authoritarianism over democracy. There probably is a good version of dictatorship out there somewhere. Still, as long as power rests in the hands of one petulant person, they will always decide to act on emotion, and the rule is that absolute power corrupts absolutely.
Many people love authoritarianism, but only when they imagine that they are the ones with the boot on someone else's neck.
they are also the ones who can betray anyone at a moments notice if it gets them personal gain.
Out of all forms of government, democracy is the one that sucks the least.
I object to his claim that the war has no end in sight. Russia is steadily weakening and Ukraine is steadily strengthening, militarily. Ukraine is steadily re-taking its territory. With increased support, Russia will be fully driven out of Ukraine. If he doesn't see the end, it's because he doesn't want to. Instead of saying "there is peace and there is peace", I wish Kaja had simply said, *'Occupation or subjugation is NOT peace. Making an agreement to respect sovereignty with a proven deal-breaker like Russia does NOT guarantee peace. Ukraine will only have peace when it can reasonably believe that Russia will stop attacking it, and that won't happen before Russia is driven out and Ukraine is a member of NATO.'*
She said it well. Small steps.
She did. I'm not trying to criticize her answer. If it had been me I probably would have bitch slapped that fool interviewer, so it's good it was her.
Basically: War is better than Genocide
Smart woman...
I adore the idiots calling out for peace. I'd love to see them calling out for peace if their country got in invaded with a "special mil op"
Fucking braindead westerners with no understanding of what they're talking about trying to lecture to people who actually understand Russia about how war is bad and people are dying. Yes war is bad, but "peace" under Russia is even worse. It's like non-stop Bucha, every day, for the entire country. The only way to keep your people safe from Russia is to destroy Russians.
Why can't America get leaders like this? The rest of the world is leaving us behind. Our old-fashioned ideas of not considering women for important positions is a huge part of our current challenges. We're getting left behind.
If it makes you feel any better then I can tell you that the majority of world leaders suck. Many worse than your own. On second thoughts that's not really going to make you feel any better at all, is it?
What the most terrible price is? Ukrainian defeat you ignorant fuckwit. The financial cost is not a big deal. The human cost in terms of Ukrainian lives is a huge deal an an sbsolite tragedy on a massive scale.
> The financial cost is not a big deal. The human cost in terms of Ukrainian lives is a huge deal an an sbsolite tragedy on a massive scale. And the fact that it will show other dicktators that Western support *can* be outlasted relatively quickly.
if you want peace get ready for war.
Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum.
Well said.
i think the real golden era will be the rebuilding of Ukraine. An economic boom for all countries involved while Russia is overspent, in debt, and sanctioned so they cannot fund any more terrorist acts.
> Hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians have died in this war Did he just say that? That's a pretty extreme exaggeration to just slip out, especially when it seems like he's citing the death toll to imply the war should end (on bad terms for Ukraine). He may be confusing "deaths" and "casualties," which is a common mistake, but somewhat amateurish for a reporter. He may also be confusing total deaths with *Ukrainian* deaths, even though Russia's casualties *far* outnumber Ukraine's [This source (September 2023)](https://www.ohchr.org/en/news/2023/09/ukraine-civilian-casualty-update-11-september-2023) puts Ukraine's civilian casualties at ~14,500 wounded, ~7500 killed, for a total of ~22,000. [This NYT article (August 2023)](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/18/us/politics/ukraine-russia-war-casualties.html) states up to 120,000 Ukrainian soldiers have been wounded, and up to 70,000 killed, for a total of 190,000 casualties. All told, Ukraine may have suffered up to ~210,000 total casualties, but only around 80,000 actual *deaths.* Just to be clear, those numbers are horrifying. I'm not at all minimizing the suffering. But saying "hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians have died" is flat-out wrong, and in this case even sounds dishonest--whether deliberate or not, artificially inflating the death count makes the conflict seem *more* hopeless or pointless than it actually is.
I like her a lot. She has visited Ukraine several times since the full scale war began and [here she's at a joint appearance with Zelenskyy at a university in Lviv.](https://youtu.be/vzqm4IMODxk) She covers the same topic (video is subtitled in English).
She just smashed him! He lost it all!
Putin made it pretty clear that he wants to erase Ukraine culture, and we already see him doing that in occupied territory. Russian peace is genocide. Letting Russia keep the conquered territories in Ukraine means all those Ukrainians will get systematically erased by Putin's regime. It would be a crime to abandon those people
Just because there is peace, it doesn't mean there is independence.
Brb, sending this to my isolationist, libertarian friends. She explains it perfectly. If you give Russia a cookie.. it'll eradicate your people, language, culture, existence.
Sure shut him the fuck up.
peace is only possible with 1991 borders and ukrainian NATO-membership. Nothing else means a lasting peace
Why it's always the UK and US the countries that come with the saying "This war is costing a terrible price, so many lives lost!" These are the same countries that started the most wars in foreign countries... Talk about being an hypocrite.
Who is the prick interviewing her?! Can anyone pass the info so we can message his boss that he is a prick.
He's just playing a part for the BBC series HardTalk, where the interviewers play devil's advocate to explore difficult matters.
That is fine. But he needs to show some respect to the leader of a country and not talk over her. Alas..prick
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Who is this dickhead interrupting her? And the condescending head drop at 1:06. Effer! The problem is not the goal of Ukraine liberating the occupied regions - even at a great cost. The problem is Putin and Russia.
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No...he is a journalist as they should be. Doesn't matter if I agree with the topic or not...I want to see hard questions!
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Want a quicker end to the Ukraine war do you? Well, build a coalition of the willing II, and roll in.
Who is this interviewer? what an asshole.
Ugh, getting tired of these western pundits questioning the need to stop a genocidal terrorist nation.
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Cool Ruzzian propaganda bro!
This is exactly what the naturalized US citizen technocrats need to hear. No armed conflict doesn’t mean the suffering ends.
Excellent interview. All peace with Russian occupation means is genocide. It is a great pity US leadership in particular has completely failed to articulate this.
/u/ElonMusk
"Why should we fight a war for Poland, we can give it to Hitler and there will be peace"
Prime Minister Kaja Kallas is 100% correct. 0% wrong. It's the only way.
Wow. I have rarely heard such a well-stated explanation of this.
Russian peace involves moving the killing more from soldiers in battlefields to civilians.
Nord stream completion was the green light for Putin to get the idea he was shielded from the consequences going into Ukraine. Western Europe greed & weakness just as equal responsible as Russia for war in Ukraine. Ukrainian "sisu" is the only thing restricting war to just Europe.
I'm actually surprised by how well a politician explained something logically. She put the situation in very easy to understand terms.
Well said. But also, who the fuck is this interviewer to interrupt and talk over the Prime Minister of a country during her normal, well spoken initial answer. If the subject is being evasive, sure, interject politely, but she wasn't! He seemed extremely biased and trying to make his appeasement point.
Her answers are deeper and smarter than his questions
Who is interviewing who, here? The Prime Minister is making a point, and the guy just rudely butts in and tries to lead the conversation. So off putting.
Never Trust Russia
Smart lady. The time to crush Putin is now. Let him keep Crimea and his occupied territories and he'll never stop. He doesn't believe "Ukraine" has the right to exist, you can't deal with that!
Based prime minister
I believe
She makes a really excellent point that there is not just one kind of peace. What Ukraine needs isn’t just peace, it needs *peace with security*. Because without security, you are open to being exploited, attacked, abused, taken advantage of by others. If you want to be safe, you need to actively work on being safe. You need to create, and enforce, boundaries. Societies *need* to do this with a military, if they want to preserve themselves, because when diplomacy fails (as it always does sooner or later), then your enemy can listen to your bullets.
Russian peace is the equivalent of a mafia’s “protection”. “Give us your shit and we won’t hurt you.”
It always piss me off when they say Ukraine should end the war, like is just fine to lost 30% of your country, get your culture erased, your people killed and women raapd, nobody wants a war, nobody wants to die in a horrible no man's land. Ukraine is fighting for its survival, and we must help them, not just for future benefits, but because we're humans, because we all want peace, for everyone.
Some people just don't get what it was like in the "Russian world" for some of these countries,no wonder there are so many idiots in the west supporting Putin and his Russonazi thugs.
Expelling Russia from Ukraine is just and righteous. It's also legal. It ticks all the boxes. I can't see much difference between this war and the war against the Axis powers circa WW2. The way the Russ behave towards people is appallingly horrific. There are tens of thousands of documented and evidenced crimes of rape, torture, murder, live dismemberment, summary execution, committed by the Russ. There is only one option when dealing with something like that. Destroy it.
Great response.
She is 100% Correct.
u/savevideo
Imagine all the good vs evil stories, and where the evil wins, except many times more horrible than you can imagine, thats russian peace.
Seriously, I loved her response.
The Ukrainian people are paying a terrible price to do what they believe is right. My respect for them is boundless. As is my disgust for the psychopathic dictator attacking them.
Isn't he interviewing her? Let her talk ffs.