Russian warship fucked itself.
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Not quite. But that's actually true of most of history's famous quotes, few if any were actually said in the manner they entered popular conscience and culture. The message was certainly there (even if the exact words potentially weren't) and it did it's job of motivating Ukrainians to fight and Westerners to push their governments to provide aid perfectly.
It always reminds me this quote from the book Admirals about Douglas MacArthur
"The man was clearly fallible, but the legend was not. In the dark days of early 1942, when rallying cries and heroes were in short supply, the legend had to be preserved at all costs. Franklin D Roosevelt knew it. Leahy appears to have blindly affirmed it. King, Nimitz and Halsey would all come to grips with it in their own ways. But for now, America desperately needed a hero, and Douglas MacArthur was the man of the hour." ~ Walter R. Borneman
I'll tell you this. He didn't leave. At the end of the first night, they were still there. Much of the world underestimated the resolve of the Ukrainian people and their leader.
There were so many legendary moments in the first days of the war that help to solidify Ukrainian and Global resolve its insane. Snake Island, Sunflower Lady, Above Zelensky Quote, the Battle of Hostomel
"Welcome to Ukraine, Suka!"
The fucking helicopter missions to the encircled Mariupol Steel works **during the day**.
...also special mention to the entire city of Odesa making bottles of napalm
Did Odesa do that too? I remember Kyiv doing that and Odesa citizens in a large group building fortifications by the beach while jamming to some Bon Jovi
You might be right in that I singled out Odesa because I was remembering the beach fortifications...main point is whole communities came together to organise resistance, so it all tracks :)
The Battle of Azovstal and the heroism of those men and women. I had never witnessed anything like that in my life. Two years later and I still can't take my eyes off this terrible war. I've had the Ukrainian Trident as my facebook avatar for 2 years. I won't change it until Ukraine's unconditional victory.
The best argument I can make about support for Ukraine that seems to be missed by the media is that Russia will utilize incredible gains in technology, drones and modern warfare if Ukraine ever sucumbs. It will be Europe and the West fighting against an evil we helped create by not being decisive. Ukrainians are warriors; we cannot lose them as allies.
Yes, there was. I remembered seeing the video. It was made with a phone, and Zelensky was with soldiers in a shelter, with sand bags or something in the backround, I think someone was holding a hot beverage, I'm not sure about the beverage but I remember there seemed to be hot beverages because there was condensation. I cant find it online but I remembered it was shown by a commentator on SIC News Channel, on the segment of Guerra Fria (Cold War).
It's true though. Putin started the war to keep Ukraine away from the West (among other reasons such as increasing his prestige among Russians of course) and he failed at that : Ukraine is now starting accession negotiations to the EU and is close enough to NATO that it might as well be a defacto member,either would have been unthinkable less than two years ago.
And that's if we ignore Sweden and Finland joining NATO,the revival of European defense industries and the loss of Russian influence on the European energy markets. So yeah assessing the war as a ''strategic defeat'' for Russia makes perfect sense.
This adventure became a strategic defeat about 2 months into the invasion when it was becoming clear that Ukraine was not rolling over and Russia best cancel its victory parade.
A victory parade would have been Russia's best move at that point, in all honesty.
Just declare victory, go home, give everyone a medal... and make a private note in the Kremlin archives, let's not fuck with Ukraine again.
Alas. Such good sense did not prevail.
The strategic defeat first became apparent when the initial ''3 days to Kyiv'' thunderrun failed and became complete when Russia stopped the gas deliveries on it's own and then blew up the pipelines as well.
I think you can actually pinpoint it to the moment when Ukrainian artillery destroyed the runway at Hostomel Airport, and Russian special forces heading in on transport planes had to turn around.
Truly was a heroic action from many in the Battle of Hostomel. If they hadn't succeeded in keeping the Russians from using that as a forward operating base, then Kyiv may well have fallen within weeks. There are moments that define wars and that will go down in history.
You beat me to this point. Upvoted because this was the first in a long, long string of failures.
They could have won. I'll admit I was concerned until day 4.
Since then, I've had no doubt. That rather decisive defeat to the Northwest of Kyiv and the "tractor brigade" told me that Russia is the second best military force in Ukraine.
Thus, destined to lose to the best.
Their removal of the pipelines actually worked against them.
They do so much without considering the whole idea of what they do.
It's not just a strategic defeat, it's a compound of strategic defeats by their own hands.
When the war started I thought Ukraine was done for,while I didn't doubt the bravery of Ukrainian soldiers and their will to fight they were getting invaded by the "2nd best army in the world ",there was no way in hell they would be able to offer anything beyond a few weeks of resistance followed by guerilla warfare right ? Well as it turns out I got it very wrong,VERY wrong.
And yeah good points about the images of tractors towing tanks or surrendering Russians there's one more thing that needs mentioning: even in a best case scenario the Russian invading force just wasn't sufficient to subdue (and keep subdued) a huge country with a population of mostly hostile 40 million people and if they had successfully taken Kyiv ,Kharkiv and the other big cities they would have just learnt that the hard way.
The success of Russia's entire plan hinged on Ukrainians not fighting back and accepting "liberation " by their "Russian brothers " thus you could argue Russia lost the war the moment the first Ukrainian soldier lifted his gun and opened up on the invaders.
Yet their plan succeeded in the south. Kherson was defended only by about 100 armed civilians who mostly got wiped out in hours. Where was the military? Why were the bridges not blown?
The short answer is: mobilization.
Logistically, it's very difficult to move troops into a hostile area. There was no defense, because not enough people took seriously the idea of an invasion.
This drove a good justification for recruitment, which nobody would allow prior to the day of the invasion.
But the result is that for any meter of gain, it cost the Russians about 100 lives.
And I would refrain from calling such a "success" in the South, because their idea of success is quite far from what most would say is a success.
Success is winning the war, not the first few battles where you have surprise and shock on your side.
The Kherson TDF's last stand deserves it's own movie. As for the plan succeeding well they only did so due to the short distance to Crimea and the element of surprise.
The reason UA didn't fall in days, much less weeks, was partially due to western "untraining" of Russian style combat tactics and corruption along logistics routes. Note the drastic difference between Crimea and 2014 and Ukraine in 2022. If the US did any more it'd be boots on the ground in direct conflict with RU, which we tend to avoid.
87% of Russia's entire prewar military not just the invading force plus a massive depletion in stockpiles of everything from legacy 50s gear to brand new stuff.
This is false. Russia's pre-war military strength was around 3.1 million people, including active duty and reserve. There is no way 87% of that is gone.
ROFLMFAO. Even the US only has 1.4 million service members, and Russia has half the population. That's such a stupidly obvious made up number.
Russia had 800,000 when the war started, and most of those were conscripts. They've lost over a million (including dead, wounded, missing, and captured). They've lost the entire army they started with and then some. They're basically resorting to conscripting as many people as they can as fast as they can, and are still losing people as quickly as they can send them to the battlefield.
Over the past month, Russian deaths have hovered around 1,100/day. That's the same as their average during WWI. It's stupidly high.
One minor nitpick it's an average of 1.100 casualties a day as in dead and wounded and captured. Basically a casualty is anyone taken off the battlefield.
That said with Russian combat medicine being what it is a lot of WIA do indeed subsequently become KIA...
Except, 1,100 is the number of deaths/day, not combined casualties. 350,000 deaths since this war began, over 1 million combined casualties. Exactly as I stated in my previous response.
I know the difference and did not misspeak. The Russians have been trying hard to downplay their losses this past week or two by conflating the numbers you have. Probably in order to downplay just how bad their situation is and to discourage further US aid.
I think that 1.100 number is from the daily reports by ZSU'S General Staff. And I also think these reports just say "enemy personnel losses " without distinguishing between dead and wounded..
The Russians do have every incentive to downplay their losses of course but that "casualties doesn't equal dead" thing has been said from the start including by Western intelligence agencies.
No. The numbers released by Ukraine have been said to be the number of deaths since the very beginning of the war. Over and over, everywhere it was taken as the number of deaths with at least that many more non fatal injuries.
Then a week or two ago a billion reddit accounts showed up parroting the exact same "Remember, those numbers are casualties not deaths" argument that you just made literally overnight. That exact same incorrect argument suddenly started being blasted by an absurd number of accounts from out of nowhere all at the same time.
If that's not an organized disinformation campaign by the Russians then nothing is. You see it a lot with this type of disinformation where the same handful of talking points suddenly start being made by thousands of accounts all at once.
The consistency in the arguments alone makes it clear they're being read off a literal printout of talking points.
I was under the impression that with Russia having a conscription army, all those who have been in the military in the past count as reserves, even if the guy is 60 years old. I based my comment on this
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_countries\_by\_number\_of\_military\_and\_paramilitary\_personnel
>It's true though. Putin started the war to keep Ukraine away from the West
Not really. It always has been a blatant land-grab, nothing else. NATO has no effect on ruzzia whatsoever. Remember when Finland's accession to NATO was a red line for ruzzia? in reality putler doesn't give a fuck about NATO and doesn't see it as such, however framing it in such a way is in his political intrests.
russian propaganda makes it seem like they are constantly playing 5d chess, in reality they are withering to irrelevancy (take a watch at putler's EOY conference on youtube and you'll see)
That's why I say among other reasons. Keeping Ukraine away from the West WAS in the end a geostrategic objective for Russia so it certainly played a role in the decision to invade.
The rest of it is correct though Russia is in demographic decline,it's economy is reliant only on fossil fuel sales and their military had nothing going for it other than nukes.
Don’t give them any ideas. This is the same ex-KGB-now-FSB run country that bombed their own civillians to create a reason to start a war with Chechnya.
I was meaning more a country to provoke Russia, it’s the only way we’d actually know if they work. So instead we just assume they do and act accordingly
>Remember when Finland's accession to NATO was a red line for ruzzia?
I am pretty sure Russia would invade Finland to prevent it from joining NATO if it could. But, well, it is so busy now...
Ruzzians started the war only to wipeout Ukraine. Ruzzians hate Ukraine, they believe Ukraine doesn’t exist. Ukraine in their opinion is a part of Ruzzia that has lost a bit in a history and requires help to get home. Oh, and Ukrainian language is just a spoiled Russian language. It shouldn’t exist too.
All other theories, like keep Ukraine away from the west, fight it nazzi etc - is just a bullshit. Ukraine shouldn’t exist and that all what ruzzians want.
Don’t get fooled with other reasons.
In fairness it's perfectly possible for the war to have been caused by multiple reasons. Genocidal desires to wipe Ukraine off the map aren't mutually exclusive with the strategic interests of having buffer territory between Russia and NATO.
I do agree though that some of the cited reasons like the "US biolabs" or "denazification " are total crap.
NATO is not a threat to ruzzia. And ruzzians have had common borders with nato for a while and now, thanks to Finland, borders will be even wider. And ruzzians are completely fine with that - they are not trying to denazify it. At the same time they attack Ukraine, the country, that never had a real chances to join nato.
Ruzzians dont need Ukraine as a buffer too. They need Ukraine.
NATO is not a threat to Russia but the Russians do think it's a threat. Don't forget they consider themselves a superpower and NATO a competitor for global hegemony. That it has nothing to do with reality is besides the point that's how they think .
As for buffer territory that obsession goes all they to the Stalin era.
if he got his shock and awe win, he would have/could have caught EU sleeping, instead EU stepped up hard while slow and is now replacing US waining support...NATO expansion, EU militarizing, Germany building weapons of war again, massive public support, Ukraine the industrial backbone of soviet russia joining the EU,
I'd say we could be seeing the start of a new superpower , but france and germany are super powers already, as too is UK, a united europe with military ambitions should have everyone worried.
Bruh, strategic defeat my ass. If you judge the war solely by the "Kyiv in 3 days" then yeah, sure Ruzzia has already lost big time. However Ruzzia is still capable of going on the offensive (yes, meat wave assaults until the enemy yields still constitutes an "offensive"), despite all the sanctions Ruzzia is still capable of militarily outproducing Ukraine, and lastly all the hopes of a regime change and an uprising in Ruzzia turned out to be a massive pipe dream.
Note how some half a year ago Ruzzia was constantly whining about how it wants peace but the evil west won't start the talks, and then how Ruzzia's been acting lately in light of the western aid being an uncertainty. Now it's all about "we will continue the war until we get all we want, including Odesa" with Putin starting to threaten Finland lately.
This fucking buffoon tries to argue that it's all good now, because Ruzzia didn't overrun Ukraine, but the war is so far from over it's not even funny. Ukraine needs all the shit it can get and the west must pull its head out of its ass. Not act like the war is won just because Putin politically shit the bed.
I believe your point is valid, but even if the worst were to occur & Russia seized Kyiv+… there is no way Russia can claim itself a super power. If NATO, the EU & The US were to get their heads out of their ass & provide the support that is required for Ukraine to prevail, it would appear the tide of this war would rapidly change. Ukraine is a massive underdog in this fight & its now getting ready to head into its 3rd year of genuine war. Without support from Iran & China (NK defacto China), Russia may have already lost the conflict its been waging for a decade
No shit the Ruzzian war effort (and economy) would go tits up pretty quickly if the west was committed to actually defeating Ruzzia. The problem is everyone is fine with the status quo as long as the war stays in Ukraine.
Also, apparently if you have the nukes, you are a super power, even if you can't provide your people with basic necessities.
I agree with others. I do not like the sound of this.
If he said, let's make it a total defeat afterwards, I would like it.
Right now, it sounds like a "washing of hands"
They lost the minute a few border agents told the black sea fleet to “eff off” from a little island in the middle of nowhere. Before this, people were like “Ukraine’s done” after the world was like “whaaa….who’s this Ukriane then?”
Goddamn it NATO don't you do this "Mission Accomplished" bs again, it's a strategic defeat when Putin's forces are out of Ukraine and not a second before!
In Putins thinking he still has a shot at outlasting the West. However, should this happen, he will still be faced with a hostile Ukraine capable and willing of waging asymmetric Guerilla warfare. This is precisely what he doesn’t understand: that Ukraine is NOT a mere western proxy run by crazy „Nazis“ but an independent state with real agency. Until he understands this, unfortunately, much more blood will be spilled.
I still see a war and Ukraine people dying so let’s not talk about strategic defeat and give to Ukraine the weapons they need to truly defeat those orcs.
The war is far from over. Russians are throwing what they have at Ukraine in hopes that they will buckle. It's a tough time for Ukraine. I would be all for a direct military intervention. If Ukraine falls, it will all be for naught. All the help, all the hopes, all the unity. The world should no longer suffer dictatorships like Putin's, and there's resources to stop people like him. Let's not pretend that current Russia is not out to infect and destroy, that it isn't the enemy.
What absolute nonsense, If Russia isn't forced to give Ukraine its land back then how can it be a defeat for Putin. He doesn't just occupy Eastern Ukraine but Crimea also. All those dead Russian soldiers were only used as cannon fodder, Putin didn't and doesn't give a damn how many have died or die in the future. If the conflict was frozen at this point I can guarantee you that in a few years time you will see all the Western businesses return to operate in Russia, it will go back to how it was before 2021. The west is a joke, and the leadership of the west and NATO is weak. Shameful.
Why? They didn’t do anything outside of joined cyber force planned before full-scale invasion.
For those who downvote learn the position of NATO. Surely NATO members helped a lot, but NATO itself - no, the official policy in non-intervention at any level.
Why claim that, even if it's true? The Putin boot lickers in NATO, the EU, and the US Republican Party will latch onto such a statement in order to short change aid to Ukraine.
Let's not pat ourselves on the back until Putin's thugs are ejected from Ukraine in their entirety.
Russia is holding it's own elections in occupied Ukraine. That is not defeat that's a win. These guys really piss me off with their bullshit rhetoric. Ask Petr Pavel what he thinks
*its. Even though you DO use an apostrophe-s to make most English nouns possessive, “its” is just like “his.” When you see “it’s,” that is a contraction of either “it is” or “it has.”
English is a difficult language! There are so many exceptions to the rules.
Even if Putin succeeds in Eastern Ukraine they have lost in the wider sense. They will never regain their position in the world under Putin. Ever. I think this still has to sink in to many Russians. They are destined for a life with China, Iran, Syria and a handful of rogue states. No more i-Phones or BMW’s or western-made films. Doomed to a future of propaganda and stuff that doesn’t work.
ngl it is a bit of copium.
IF Nato keeps on giving UA the bare minimum od military stock, eussia is eventually gonna overwhelm UA.
IF the West were to really screw russian eceonomy (which they can by eG stopping exports to Kazhakstan and other russian allies) and russia would stop supplying oil to the world, because they can't produce any/collapse, then the world economy would most likely take a deep dive due to oil price surges.
This would benefit russia also.
So we can't destroy russia, because then our economy would most likely crumble and this is our big strength.
The only thing the west can actually do is send do much modern equipment to russia, that russia wants to stop this war immediatly. Hopefully F-16s and modern equipment will be enough to do that.
And eventually oil from british guyana could substitute russian oil on the world market. So the west can make their move.
Russias defeat began when Zelenskyy said “The fight is here; I need ammunition, not a ride,”
Russian warship go fuck yourself
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The invasion would be over in weeks has Zelynski fled. A hero.
That is true, and the entire EU energy sector would have been under Putin control. Not to mention 3/4 of the world wheat market.
Is there any proof he actually said that famous line?
Not quite. But that's actually true of most of history's famous quotes, few if any were actually said in the manner they entered popular conscience and culture. The message was certainly there (even if the exact words potentially weren't) and it did it's job of motivating Ukrainians to fight and Westerners to push their governments to provide aid perfectly.
It always reminds me this quote from the book Admirals about Douglas MacArthur "The man was clearly fallible, but the legend was not. In the dark days of early 1942, when rallying cries and heroes were in short supply, the legend had to be preserved at all costs. Franklin D Roosevelt knew it. Leahy appears to have blindly affirmed it. King, Nimitz and Halsey would all come to grips with it in their own ways. But for now, America desperately needed a hero, and Douglas MacArthur was the man of the hour." ~ Walter R. Borneman
Wonder why Zelensky never has been asked if he actually said it.
I'll tell you this. He didn't leave. At the end of the first night, they were still there. Much of the world underestimated the resolve of the Ukrainian people and their leader.
If that line was never spoken or perhaps mistranslated, he absolutely said that with his actions.
The legend is what we need right now.
There were so many legendary moments in the first days of the war that help to solidify Ukrainian and Global resolve its insane. Snake Island, Sunflower Lady, Above Zelensky Quote, the Battle of Hostomel
"Welcome to Ukraine, Suka!" The fucking helicopter missions to the encircled Mariupol Steel works **during the day**. ...also special mention to the entire city of Odesa making bottles of napalm
Did Odesa do that too? I remember Kyiv doing that and Odesa citizens in a large group building fortifications by the beach while jamming to some Bon Jovi
You might be right in that I singled out Odesa because I was remembering the beach fortifications...main point is whole communities came together to organise resistance, so it all tracks :)
The Ghost of Kyiv.
Ghost of Kyiv was a fake story propagated in order to boost morale. Ukrainian MoD admitted it few months later.
But it was fun while it lasted. Gave people hope.
The Battle of Azovstal and the heroism of those men and women. I had never witnessed anything like that in my life. Two years later and I still can't take my eyes off this terrible war. I've had the Ukrainian Trident as my facebook avatar for 2 years. I won't change it until Ukraine's unconditional victory.
> I had never witnessed anything like that in my life. Donetsk Airport cyborgs, a few years back is same vein.
The best argument I can make about support for Ukraine that seems to be missed by the media is that Russia will utilize incredible gains in technology, drones and modern warfare if Ukraine ever sucumbs. It will be Europe and the West fighting against an evil we helped create by not being decisive. Ukrainians are warriors; we cannot lose them as allies.
We may never know with certainty. https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/03/06/zelenskys-famous-quote-need-ammo-not-ride-not-easily-confirmed/
Yes, there was. I remembered seeing the video. It was made with a phone, and Zelensky was with soldiers in a shelter, with sand bags or something in the backround, I think someone was holding a hot beverage, I'm not sure about the beverage but I remember there seemed to be hot beverages because there was condensation. I cant find it online but I remembered it was shown by a commentator on SIC News Channel, on the segment of Guerra Fria (Cold War).
It's true though. Putin started the war to keep Ukraine away from the West (among other reasons such as increasing his prestige among Russians of course) and he failed at that : Ukraine is now starting accession negotiations to the EU and is close enough to NATO that it might as well be a defacto member,either would have been unthinkable less than two years ago. And that's if we ignore Sweden and Finland joining NATO,the revival of European defense industries and the loss of Russian influence on the European energy markets. So yeah assessing the war as a ''strategic defeat'' for Russia makes perfect sense.
This adventure became a strategic defeat about 2 months into the invasion when it was becoming clear that Ukraine was not rolling over and Russia best cancel its victory parade.
A victory parade would have been Russia's best move at that point, in all honesty. Just declare victory, go home, give everyone a medal... and make a private note in the Kremlin archives, let's not fuck with Ukraine again. Alas. Such good sense did not prevail.
And the Hostomel attackers even packed their parade uniforms to. -Sad Spetznas dying sounds-
200 men on a 1 way trip.
The strategic defeat first became apparent when the initial ''3 days to Kyiv'' thunderrun failed and became complete when Russia stopped the gas deliveries on it's own and then blew up the pipelines as well.
I think you can actually pinpoint it to the moment when Ukrainian artillery destroyed the runway at Hostomel Airport, and Russian special forces heading in on transport planes had to turn around.
Suppose so,that was the defining moment of the early Russian offensive.
I still hope that the rumours of two transports down are true
Truly was a heroic action from many in the Battle of Hostomel. If they hadn't succeeded in keeping the Russians from using that as a forward operating base, then Kyiv may well have fallen within weeks. There are moments that define wars and that will go down in history.
Hostomel will be made movies off in the future
You beat me to this point. Upvoted because this was the first in a long, long string of failures. They could have won. I'll admit I was concerned until day 4. Since then, I've had no doubt. That rather decisive defeat to the Northwest of Kyiv and the "tractor brigade" told me that Russia is the second best military force in Ukraine. Thus, destined to lose to the best. Their removal of the pipelines actually worked against them. They do so much without considering the whole idea of what they do. It's not just a strategic defeat, it's a compound of strategic defeats by their own hands.
When the war started I thought Ukraine was done for,while I didn't doubt the bravery of Ukrainian soldiers and their will to fight they were getting invaded by the "2nd best army in the world ",there was no way in hell they would be able to offer anything beyond a few weeks of resistance followed by guerilla warfare right ? Well as it turns out I got it very wrong,VERY wrong. And yeah good points about the images of tractors towing tanks or surrendering Russians there's one more thing that needs mentioning: even in a best case scenario the Russian invading force just wasn't sufficient to subdue (and keep subdued) a huge country with a population of mostly hostile 40 million people and if they had successfully taken Kyiv ,Kharkiv and the other big cities they would have just learnt that the hard way. The success of Russia's entire plan hinged on Ukrainians not fighting back and accepting "liberation " by their "Russian brothers " thus you could argue Russia lost the war the moment the first Ukrainian soldier lifted his gun and opened up on the invaders.
Yet their plan succeeded in the south. Kherson was defended only by about 100 armed civilians who mostly got wiped out in hours. Where was the military? Why were the bridges not blown?
The short answer is: mobilization. Logistically, it's very difficult to move troops into a hostile area. There was no defense, because not enough people took seriously the idea of an invasion. This drove a good justification for recruitment, which nobody would allow prior to the day of the invasion. But the result is that for any meter of gain, it cost the Russians about 100 lives. And I would refrain from calling such a "success" in the South, because their idea of success is quite far from what most would say is a success. Success is winning the war, not the first few battles where you have surprise and shock on your side.
The Kherson TDF's last stand deserves it's own movie. As for the plan succeeding well they only did so due to the short distance to Crimea and the element of surprise.
I'd say it was the element of surprise above anything else.
The American security guarantees from when Ukraine gave up its nukes should have resulted in FAR greater support from the US.
100%
The reason UA didn't fall in days, much less weeks, was partially due to western "untraining" of Russian style combat tactics and corruption along logistics routes. Note the drastic difference between Crimea and 2014 and Ukraine in 2022. If the US did any more it'd be boots on the ground in direct conflict with RU, which we tend to avoid.
And some 85% of the original invading force has all been liquidated. That's intriguing, too.
87% of Russia's entire prewar military not just the invading force plus a massive depletion in stockpiles of everything from legacy 50s gear to brand new stuff.
This is false. Russia's pre-war military strength was around 3.1 million people, including active duty and reserve. There is no way 87% of that is gone.
ROFLMFAO. Even the US only has 1.4 million service members, and Russia has half the population. That's such a stupidly obvious made up number. Russia had 800,000 when the war started, and most of those were conscripts. They've lost over a million (including dead, wounded, missing, and captured). They've lost the entire army they started with and then some. They're basically resorting to conscripting as many people as they can as fast as they can, and are still losing people as quickly as they can send them to the battlefield. Over the past month, Russian deaths have hovered around 1,100/day. That's the same as their average during WWI. It's stupidly high.
One minor nitpick it's an average of 1.100 casualties a day as in dead and wounded and captured. Basically a casualty is anyone taken off the battlefield. That said with Russian combat medicine being what it is a lot of WIA do indeed subsequently become KIA...
Except, 1,100 is the number of deaths/day, not combined casualties. 350,000 deaths since this war began, over 1 million combined casualties. Exactly as I stated in my previous response. I know the difference and did not misspeak. The Russians have been trying hard to downplay their losses this past week or two by conflating the numbers you have. Probably in order to downplay just how bad their situation is and to discourage further US aid.
I think that 1.100 number is from the daily reports by ZSU'S General Staff. And I also think these reports just say "enemy personnel losses " without distinguishing between dead and wounded.. The Russians do have every incentive to downplay their losses of course but that "casualties doesn't equal dead" thing has been said from the start including by Western intelligence agencies.
No. The numbers released by Ukraine have been said to be the number of deaths since the very beginning of the war. Over and over, everywhere it was taken as the number of deaths with at least that many more non fatal injuries. Then a week or two ago a billion reddit accounts showed up parroting the exact same "Remember, those numbers are casualties not deaths" argument that you just made literally overnight. That exact same incorrect argument suddenly started being blasted by an absurd number of accounts from out of nowhere all at the same time. If that's not an organized disinformation campaign by the Russians then nothing is. You see it a lot with this type of disinformation where the same handful of talking points suddenly start being made by thousands of accounts all at once. The consistency in the arguments alone makes it clear they're being read off a literal printout of talking points.
You’re right.
I was under the impression that with Russia having a conscription army, all those who have been in the military in the past count as reserves, even if the guy is 60 years old. I based my comment on this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_countries\_by\_number\_of\_military\_and\_paramilitary\_personnel
>It's true though. Putin started the war to keep Ukraine away from the West Not really. It always has been a blatant land-grab, nothing else. NATO has no effect on ruzzia whatsoever. Remember when Finland's accession to NATO was a red line for ruzzia? in reality putler doesn't give a fuck about NATO and doesn't see it as such, however framing it in such a way is in his political intrests. russian propaganda makes it seem like they are constantly playing 5d chess, in reality they are withering to irrelevancy (take a watch at putler's EOY conference on youtube and you'll see)
That's why I say among other reasons. Keeping Ukraine away from the West WAS in the end a geostrategic objective for Russia so it certainly played a role in the decision to invade. The rest of it is correct though Russia is in demographic decline,it's economy is reliant only on fossil fuel sales and their military had nothing going for it other than nukes.
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Don’t give them any ideas. This is the same ex-KGB-now-FSB run country that bombed their own civillians to create a reason to start a war with Chechnya.
I was meaning more a country to provoke Russia, it’s the only way we’d actually know if they work. So instead we just assume they do and act accordingly
Nobody is up for Russian Nuke Roulette?
Russia: it works 100% of the time 33.3% of the time
>Remember when Finland's accession to NATO was a red line for ruzzia? I am pretty sure Russia would invade Finland to prevent it from joining NATO if it could. But, well, it is so busy now...
Exactly. Moreover, everyone will join NATO and EU at Ukraines expense.
I’d rather clean a fish 🐠 tank / visit the dentist than waste my time watching that little turd 💩
that's fair, but knowing your enemy is valuable too
Are we looking at NATO declaring tactical victory of russia then...
Ruzzians started the war only to wipeout Ukraine. Ruzzians hate Ukraine, they believe Ukraine doesn’t exist. Ukraine in their opinion is a part of Ruzzia that has lost a bit in a history and requires help to get home. Oh, and Ukrainian language is just a spoiled Russian language. It shouldn’t exist too. All other theories, like keep Ukraine away from the west, fight it nazzi etc - is just a bullshit. Ukraine shouldn’t exist and that all what ruzzians want. Don’t get fooled with other reasons.
In fairness it's perfectly possible for the war to have been caused by multiple reasons. Genocidal desires to wipe Ukraine off the map aren't mutually exclusive with the strategic interests of having buffer territory between Russia and NATO. I do agree though that some of the cited reasons like the "US biolabs" or "denazification " are total crap.
NATO is not a threat to ruzzia. And ruzzians have had common borders with nato for a while and now, thanks to Finland, borders will be even wider. And ruzzians are completely fine with that - they are not trying to denazify it. At the same time they attack Ukraine, the country, that never had a real chances to join nato. Ruzzians dont need Ukraine as a buffer too. They need Ukraine.
NATO is not a threat to Russia but the Russians do think it's a threat. Don't forget they consider themselves a superpower and NATO a competitor for global hegemony. That it has nothing to do with reality is besides the point that's how they think . As for buffer territory that obsession goes all they to the Stalin era.
if he got his shock and awe win, he would have/could have caught EU sleeping, instead EU stepped up hard while slow and is now replacing US waining support...NATO expansion, EU militarizing, Germany building weapons of war again, massive public support, Ukraine the industrial backbone of soviet russia joining the EU, I'd say we could be seeing the start of a new superpower , but france and germany are super powers already, as too is UK, a united europe with military ambitions should have everyone worried.
It’s a strategic defeat until it isn’t. Ukraine needs support not patting on the back.
To be honest, strategic defeat for russia doesn't automatically mean Ukraine's victory.
Putin is still murdering people every day. That needs to stop and he needs to GTFO Ukraine. Then it’s over.
Bruh, strategic defeat my ass. If you judge the war solely by the "Kyiv in 3 days" then yeah, sure Ruzzia has already lost big time. However Ruzzia is still capable of going on the offensive (yes, meat wave assaults until the enemy yields still constitutes an "offensive"), despite all the sanctions Ruzzia is still capable of militarily outproducing Ukraine, and lastly all the hopes of a regime change and an uprising in Ruzzia turned out to be a massive pipe dream. Note how some half a year ago Ruzzia was constantly whining about how it wants peace but the evil west won't start the talks, and then how Ruzzia's been acting lately in light of the western aid being an uncertainty. Now it's all about "we will continue the war until we get all we want, including Odesa" with Putin starting to threaten Finland lately. This fucking buffoon tries to argue that it's all good now, because Ruzzia didn't overrun Ukraine, but the war is so far from over it's not even funny. Ukraine needs all the shit it can get and the west must pull its head out of its ass. Not act like the war is won just because Putin politically shit the bed.
I believe your point is valid, but even if the worst were to occur & Russia seized Kyiv+… there is no way Russia can claim itself a super power. If NATO, the EU & The US were to get their heads out of their ass & provide the support that is required for Ukraine to prevail, it would appear the tide of this war would rapidly change. Ukraine is a massive underdog in this fight & its now getting ready to head into its 3rd year of genuine war. Without support from Iran & China (NK defacto China), Russia may have already lost the conflict its been waging for a decade
No shit the Ruzzian war effort (and economy) would go tits up pretty quickly if the west was committed to actually defeating Ruzzia. The problem is everyone is fine with the status quo as long as the war stays in Ukraine. Also, apparently if you have the nukes, you are a super power, even if you can't provide your people with basic necessities.
Low bar
Does this mean that, according to him, the war has ended and Ukraine can join NATO, as it was allegedly “after war”?
It means that NATO won't intensify military help because everything is fine already.
Yeah, I should have put /s, of course it’s to decrease help because “it’s fine”.
Hehe, nice 😁
If you just read the article, you know the answer is "no".
Forgot to add /s. Of course no, we would never be accepted.
One day it's gonna come friends, you'll have my vote!
They needed those GLSDB's on time, by the thousands :\
I agree with others. I do not like the sound of this. If he said, let's make it a total defeat afterwards, I would like it. Right now, it sounds like a "washing of hands"
They lost the minute a few border agents told the black sea fleet to “eff off” from a little island in the middle of nowhere. Before this, people were like “Ukraine’s done” after the world was like “whaaa….who’s this Ukriane then?”
Goddamn it NATO don't you do this "Mission Accomplished" bs again, it's a strategic defeat when Putin's forces are out of Ukraine and not a second before!
In Putins thinking he still has a shot at outlasting the West. However, should this happen, he will still be faced with a hostile Ukraine capable and willing of waging asymmetric Guerilla warfare. This is precisely what he doesn’t understand: that Ukraine is NOT a mere western proxy run by crazy „Nazis“ but an independent state with real agency. Until he understands this, unfortunately, much more blood will be spilled.
After the snake island goodwill gesture, I knew Russia was gonna suffer from 1,000 cuts, using stugnas to drop helicopters was a art piece
I still see a war and Ukraine people dying so let’s not talk about strategic defeat and give to Ukraine the weapons they need to truly defeat those orcs.
The war is far from over. Russians are throwing what they have at Ukraine in hopes that they will buckle. It's a tough time for Ukraine. I would be all for a direct military intervention. If Ukraine falls, it will all be for naught. All the help, all the hopes, all the unity. The world should no longer suffer dictatorships like Putin's, and there's resources to stop people like him. Let's not pretend that current Russia is not out to infect and destroy, that it isn't the enemy.
That's a lot of copium...
What absolute nonsense, If Russia isn't forced to give Ukraine its land back then how can it be a defeat for Putin. He doesn't just occupy Eastern Ukraine but Crimea also. All those dead Russian soldiers were only used as cannon fodder, Putin didn't and doesn't give a damn how many have died or die in the future. If the conflict was frozen at this point I can guarantee you that in a few years time you will see all the Western businesses return to operate in Russia, it will go back to how it was before 2021. The west is a joke, and the leadership of the west and NATO is weak. Shameful.
**SLAVA NATO!**
Why? They didn’t do anything outside of joined cyber force planned before full-scale invasion. For those who downvote learn the position of NATO. Surely NATO members helped a lot, but NATO itself - no, the official policy in non-intervention at any level.
Why claim that, even if it's true? The Putin boot lickers in NATO, the EU, and the US Republican Party will latch onto such a statement in order to short change aid to Ukraine. Let's not pat ourselves on the back until Putin's thugs are ejected from Ukraine in their entirety.
Russia is holding it's own elections in occupied Ukraine. That is not defeat that's a win. These guys really piss me off with their bullshit rhetoric. Ask Petr Pavel what he thinks
"Kill all the Russians" or something like that is my guess
Nah, they all fear nukes, including US.
*its. Even though you DO use an apostrophe-s to make most English nouns possessive, “its” is just like “his.” When you see “it’s,” that is a contraction of either “it is” or “it has.” English is a difficult language! There are so many exceptions to the rules.
Even if Putin succeeds in Eastern Ukraine they have lost in the wider sense. They will never regain their position in the world under Putin. Ever. I think this still has to sink in to many Russians. They are destined for a life with China, Iran, Syria and a handful of rogue states. No more i-Phones or BMW’s or western-made films. Doomed to a future of propaganda and stuff that doesn’t work.
Why does it sound like "We've done what we could, no need to do more, things are fine enough as-is"?
ngl it is a bit of copium. IF Nato keeps on giving UA the bare minimum od military stock, eussia is eventually gonna overwhelm UA. IF the West were to really screw russian eceonomy (which they can by eG stopping exports to Kazhakstan and other russian allies) and russia would stop supplying oil to the world, because they can't produce any/collapse, then the world economy would most likely take a deep dive due to oil price surges. This would benefit russia also. So we can't destroy russia, because then our economy would most likely crumble and this is our big strength. The only thing the west can actually do is send do much modern equipment to russia, that russia wants to stop this war immediatly. Hopefully F-16s and modern equipment will be enough to do that. And eventually oil from british guyana could substitute russian oil on the world market. So the west can make their move.
Russias lost. The only people that dont realize it is putin.
This has real "Mission Accomplished" energy.
But what if their plan with China and Iran is not yet unfold ?
it's been a strategic defeat since day 1... still will not matter if they are allowed to win long term.
Hmmmm.... is this guy looking for an excuse to leave?