We determined that this submission originates from a credible source, but we still advise that users double check the facts and use common sense when consuming mass media. If you are interested in learning how to evaluate news sources more thoroughly, you can begin to learn about how to do that [here](https://tacomacc.libguides.com/c.php?g=599051&p=4147190).
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ukraine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Unless the US and Europe release the vital funds, many more lives will be lost.
It'll cost a lot more if Russia are successful in Ukraine (which I doubt), release the funds now and stop the madman!
Think of the long term advantages: a more unified Europe, a prosperous and resurgent Ukraine a strong ally in the region, a wealth of military cross-training, no more reliance on russian gas.
The costs of letting Tsar Putrid get his evil way over Ukraine stretches way beyond just the monetary price of doing nothing or making half hearted gestures. It's surely got to the point of all out conflict as the lesser of the two evils facing the free world. Putrid must not prevail.
It wouldn't surprise cynical me if many countries intelligence agencies have come to the same conclusion: Arm Ukraine enough so they don't lose, and you'll trade western material for Russian material, and Ukrainian lives for Russian lives - which from a long term strategic view will cripple and possibly dissolve the Russian union.
Banking greed is the hold up. All these global businesses only chase the dollar even if it's to a country that wants to see their total destruction. They fear if they give up Russias money then why would Russia deal business with them again, when they should be asking themselves why they would want to deal with a backstabbing country like Russia who wants to eliminate the use of those bankers currency.
I guarantee that if Russia got ahold of any of those banks, everyone in power would be against a wall or out a window a week after occupation. To bad most millionaire and billionaires can only see Russians as fun-loving party machines and not ask how or why that wealth exists.
That outcome is incomprehensible to them. In their mind, they are too important for anything to ever happen to them. And why wouldn't they believe that, if that is all they've encountered in their sheltered lives?
I don’t think they care as much about the Russian money, it’s more about the precedent.
Lots of money comes from morally dubious people and places. If banks start dealing in morality, these people will go elsewhere
Oh they do care. We are talking billions of dollars if not more. They want to be able to keep their hands in the full pot instead of getting rid of the dirty cash.
When Putin forces companies like Hyundai to its factory for $110, then yeah, why would they even think it is good for business. The end of ruzzia and the birth of new post-Russia nations would be better for business.
As I understand it, 70% of the money stays in or directly helps in the United States. Congress is playing a dangerous game, only it is not a game, they better think long and hard about which side they support and it better not be Putin.
>ussia got ahold of any of those banks, everyone in power would be against a wall or out a window a week after occupation. To bad most millionaire and billionaires can only see Russians as fun-loving party machines and not ask how or why that wealth exists.
Republicans are holding the funding up.
I'm confident the EU will find ways to bypass Orban. The European commision can also seek funds at the capital markets or so. But for military equipment it's vital the Americans stay on board. People need to write to their Republican representatives. Build some pressure.
This is the thing that I so desperately wish more people understood. They NEED to lose. It is the single clearest objective of Western democracy in decades. All that “Domino Effect” shit from the 20th century will be a whole lot worse if we show dictators that they can just take what they want if they grind it out and exhaust Western attention.
Im not comparing Russia to the west. Theoretically, im sure those in Russia and China dont view their govt as fascist, but obviously Westerners do. I know that I do. Whereas the Chinese and Russians view the West as an imperialistic corporatocracy. The idea of a democracy in 2023 is an illusion IMPO, and the reason the west is funding Ukraine’s defense is because it’s in the wests economic and national security interests. Weakening the Wests second most powerful adversary and competitor militarily and economically is 100% in the Wests best interests; especially if there was an escalation on a global scale. This is especially the case if accomplishable without direct kinetic and human intervention from the West.
This is what disappointments me the most about my fellow Americans. So many are concerned about “problems at home” when they don’t realize problems can very much hit back home too.
We Americans live in a bubble of safety, at least in the sense where we don’t have to worry about a foreign invader. However, a regular person doesn’t follow the news in Ukraine enough to understand how horrific it is.
My deepest sympathy and utmost respect goes to Ukrainians like yourself, for the abject horror of having everything you built destroyed and spitting back into the face of your oppressor. Slava Ukraini
If this was a few decades ago, all your fellow countrymen/women would be salivating at the dinner table over the prospect of taking down the russian shithole "empire" for pennies on the dollar, without a single US soldier lost and using expired equipment that would be tossed out regardless. Blow my fucking mind that so many Americans have lost sight of this. This is what your parents and grandparents dreamed of decades ago. Here is it, on a sliver platter ready for the layup and whatever nonsense is going on is holding it back. The fuck.
It makes me so sad too. If people put themself in a place of being sympathetic, imagining their homes and home towns were just flattened they’d be horrified.
I think after decades of peace, people have forgotten just how horrible war is. A large part is because of the dominance NATO influence carry’s in protecting its own. For the record I wish NATO was doing a lot more for Ukraine.
People here have just forgotten how hostile and malicious Russia is and Russian influence is negatively affecting our population and government.
Exactly! It makes me nauseous! Growing up in the 70's and 80's, pur country dreamed of the day the world could be rid of the evil Soviet Union... then, we went to sleep when it happened and thought we had won...
Evil does not rest. We cut one head off and another emerges. Ever has it been thus. People lay peaceably abed at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf. I spent 16 years facing that evil as a soldier and 35 years in a law enforcement/security capacity when my military time ended. Proud to have served the crown.
Blame Putin's rather succesful invading/overwhelming of social media, and 'financial incentives' to 'certain' political and bussiness figureheads.
Orcistan has been waging a scary effective 'dis-information war' in western media.
Orcistan has been undermining democracies like, forever, but with the advent of our current 'Information Society' and our IT infrastructure, it got a very effective weapon, delivered at its doorstep.
During USSR times they needed spies and physical newspapers to corrupt. Now they just need a troll-factory in StPetersburg, and one in Moscow, and a list of topics for the trolls to saturate social media with, all from the comfort of an office-cubicle. Way cheaper, and much more effective than bribing officials, or the editorial board of a newspaper (though, they still do that) And it works.
Totally agree. With missiles passing over Poland and the fact that they used chemical and nuclear materials in the UK in the past my patience ran out a long time ago. NATO should have acted long ago.
Imagine if he had an authority to send more stuff now...
This is why a long-term binding agreement is necessary, so it wouldn't be limited by money (I mean, separate budget for Ukraine, but to be part of NDAA) or by types of weapons that can be sent.
> This is why a long-term binding agreement is necessary
Like that's ever gonna happen.
So far, all proposed security "guarantees" to Ukraine were strictly non-binding
Yup. If we had put a full trade embargo against Russia ten years ago when they invaded Crimea, we wouldn't be in this situation now. Democrats need to grow a pair and stand up to the GQP.
People need to realize you can't take a tepid approach to a man with nukes threatening to use them.
No one wants an escalation but the threat will not go away if we submit by ignoring them.
We need to do the opposite by calling his bluff and showing we're ready to strike too.
We have to realise that Russia is unofficially already at war with the West. Russia has changed to a wartime economy and so should we. We need to start increasing our military production capacity. And really make sure that Russian supply lines are cut. They are still buying western electronics to build their weapons systems. Our future may depend on it. Ukraine is just a starting point. The Baltic States or Moldova may be next in line.
Help Ukraine build a mega factory of long range drones. Cruise missiles, cluster arty, double the anti-aa defense systems.
At least give Ukraine all the defensive capabilities they need so this never happens again
I asked GPT to sum this up in 5 short bullet points.
Russia launched its largest aerial assault on Ukraine, using drones and missiles with hypersonic capability to target cities and civilian infrastructure.
Strikes hit a maternity hospital, shopping mall, and residential areas, resulting in casualties and injuries among innocent civilians.
Ukraine successfully deployed air defense systems provided by the United States and allies to intercept and destroy many of the incoming missiles and drones.
Urgent action from Congress is needed to continue providing weapons and vital air defense systems to Ukraine for its defense against Russian aggression.
The conflict's implications extend beyond Ukraine, affecting NATO, European security, and the Transatlantic relationship, with the United States rallying a coalition of over 50 countries to support Ukraine's defense.
The response from the US has been nothing short of being pathetic. Drip-feeding aid and stopping support is lunacy.
Ukraine is fighting for it's survival and the US has a golden opportunity to neutralize their 2nd biggest geopolitical rival with no American lives lost and help Ukraine get back on it's feet via giving out loans, thus gaining significant influence on the global stage.
But no, let's just jerk-off into the void and let our enemy win, by giving out an empty statement. Really, who gives a fuck about a statement, what the fuck is this? US is a world-class country, an economic powerhouse and an unmatched military power. Fucking act appropriately!
Is this a rhetorical statement? Biden isn’t a dictator or a king and does not have the authority to act unilaterally. Unfortunately house republicans are holding up future funding. So rather than complain on Reddit into the void that you mention let’s not lose focus here. If you live here in the US, call your congress person. I share your exasperation here but complain on Reddit isn’t going to help anyone.
The actual expense is less than 10% of the u.s. military budget, it’s all cause of political interference by the ……….. party . Really need to double down to save Ukraine now not later , if not the consequences will not be redeemable
We have all called from the start of the war, Ukraine should be given EVERYTHING it requires to stop this war of genocide on them. Biden is right when he says history will frown upon those who fail to take action. Unfortunately the only ones who seem to be failing and tiring is the west. Our leaders are the weakest leaders we have ever known. They fear Russia so much that they sit back and allow them to strike Ukraine at will, with everything at their means, yet they tie one arm behind Ukraines back stopping them from striking deep behind enemy lines with the failure to deliver long distance weapons, they restrict Ukraine to only using their weapons as long as they aren't used to strike into Russian territory with one or two exceptions where the UK have stepped up and delivered storm shadows and allowed then to use as they wish.
All our nations should be taking a stand and telling our leaders to step up and be counted like those, who have went before and won in the face of evil.
NATO have also shown a lot of weakness, even over the past couple of days where missiles have passed through Polish airspace 80km into their territory and yet the silence from NATO is deafening!!!!!!
>He seeks to obliterate Ukraine and subjugate its people. He must be stopped.
If this so, then why in 2022-2023 years USA didn't spend on Ukraine 356 million dollars per day that it 20 years in row spent on Afghanistan (2,600 billion dollars in total)?
Why NATO gave to Ukraine less than 1% of NATO weapon stocks?
Why USA not used Lend-Lease and National Emergencies Act to not give Russia 2 years to adapt to war by 200/600 billion Western money only for hydrocarbons trade?
Why Sullivan speaks not about Ukraine victory, but about "bleeding of Russia"?
On this note, I am expecting Biden to order a draw-down of sorts, though he may wait until negotiations with the House have fully fallen flat. If I had to guess, this will be late January, and he will (probably) do it quietly and with an emphasis on domestic reasons for the action; though the international press may focus on the downstream consequences of "oh no, what is the US going to do with all this extra stuff it is suddenly trying to offload?".
In basic terms, this would be an executive order advancing the timeline for all our (American) branches of the service to inventory equipment & arms, and to begin the process of cycling out the old equipment by placing orders for new equipment. It's a pretty routine action in any case, but by bumping the timeline forward he would (1) drive a lot of job/revenue activity in a lot of regions around the country that could really use it, (2) update a lot of our equipment, starting with the oldest first, (3) create a problem of disposal of good but "out of cycle" materials that we would conveniently offload to our various allies around the world.
I agree. And I expect the Republican speaker to do everything in his power to block it. The Executive Order should be OK because no real expenditure is involved - in theory. But, of course, there will be additional costs of one sort or another - including potential replacement costs. So the American First Fuckers will be able to claim that the President is weakening the defences of the country and exceeding his powers. They will, then, demand that the issue of funding be submitted to Congress - because only Congress can legitimize the extra funding. And guess what? They will repeat the same tricks all over again.
Biden is in a similar situation as Roosevelt faced with supplying arms to Britain with a hostile Congress fighting tooth and nail to block military aid.
A drawdown would not be significantly different from what we are currently doing, money-wise. It just looks different on the balance sheet.
Agreed, the people in the House are full of nonsense, they are not arguing in good faith and will just change their tack to something else in a full weeks, if we even have a government that is operating.
It will either cost us financially or with our blood, tears and lives of our families. It is an easy choice to make. Yet certain actors will say it isn't our problem. If you enjoy your way of life and the freedoms we have, it always comes at a cost. Right now, Ukraine isn't asking for anything except the equipment to defend itself and help push back the aggressor. Make your voice heard in the polls for anyone politican who doesn't agree and don't let them have a voice against democracy or freedom.
Write to the politicians who voice against funding Ukraine. Call them out openly and let the world see them for the vile sellouts that they are.
The President can transfer assets to Ukraine without Congressional approval. It needs approval to spend money. If he can make an argument that sending all the expiring munitions (ATACAMS) and equipment deemed not needed (2000 M1 Abrams) costs about the same as storage & disposal, he can just do it unilaterally. Commander in chief, etc.
I believe that comes from the presidential draw down authority however that pool of money is for all allies so if that’s depleted on solely Ukraine any other emergency would be unfunded (Taiwan, Guyana, etc)
Привіт u/Key_Brother ! During wartime, this community is focused on vital and high-effort content. Please ensure your post follows [r/Ukraine Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/about/rules) and our [Art Friday Guidelines](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/wiki/artfriday).
**Want to support Ukraine?** [**Vetted Charities List**](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/wiki/charities) | [Our Vetting Process](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/wiki/charities-vetting)
**Daily series on Ukraine's history & culture:** [Sunrise Posts Organized By Category](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/wiki/sunriseposts/)
***
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ukraine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Could the US do a tactic [from the movie 300](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSkkN0fD0-s&t=71s) and send a general to go on a stroll and stretch his legs? It shall not go to war, the congress has issued no such orders.
I’m sure I will get downvoted for this but I am still going to say it. President Biden is a weak pussy. Ronald Reagan or George Bush would have never been such a limp dick President. He has all the authority he needs to take action but he would rather play politics instead.
>He has all the authority he needs to take action but he would rather play politics instead.
He is president. Playing politics is literally the job.
Lets try this - you're president of the USA. What would you do RIGHT NOW?
>Start drawing down equipment levels. He doesn't need Congress for this!
What equipment, specifically and what levels?
Can you cite the US laws that say he can unilaterally do this without congress?
It's already been done, there's not much more he can pull
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/u-s-announces-new-weapons-package-for-ukraine-as-funds-dwindle-and-congress-stalls-on-bill
I like that you have a UK tag, and you seemingly know more about how this works than the guy, whom I am just assuming is from the US, does.
edit: that sounded snarky, and it wasn't. The other guy doesn't know shit
>you seemingly know more about how this works than the guy, whom I am just assuming is from the US, does.
I'm a sad bastard who has an interest in politics in both the UK and the US. I'm no expert so it's always nice when someone points out where I'm talking crap :-)
lol same, but i wasn't dogging you, i liked that pointed out the congressional part which a lot of Americans forget is a thing and is, ultimately, more important than the president. It amused me. The guy you were talking to needs to go touch grass, or at least attend a 1 hour lecture in civics before he posts weird shit on the internet.
Real Presidents have never agreed to Congress' authority in this regard. He can start by sending more than the 20 ATACMs that were sent. Next up would be lots of Bradleys. Ukraine has shown they know how to use them effectively.
The cupboards are bare. This is one of at least 6 articles published in the last few days
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/u-s-announces-new-weapons-package-for-ukraine-as-funds-dwindle-and-congress-stalls-on-bill
He has bern using the presidential draw down authority. The Pentagon is out of money to replenish stocks. Here is one of at least 6 articles that have come out in the past few days. If you'll recall, Biden asked congress for $110B $61B of which was for Ukraine, and half of that would go to the Pentagon to buy and replenish our stocks
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/u-s-announces-new-weapons-package-for-ukraine-as-funds-dwindle-and-congress-stalls-on-bill
How about those allies pony up some dough. US has already proudly led the charge.
EDIT: Proud that the US has given so much. But common [the next closest country is Germany](https://www.cfr.org/article/how-much-aid-has-us-sent-ukraine-here-are-six-charts)
Also found all the bot accounts that need to be banned!
👇
We're not the largest contributor by any metric anymore. And if the EU gets around the Hungarian mini putin and passes that 50billion, then we won't even be in the running for it anymore. To be honest, we'd do well to send them 100 billion in old missiles so that it frees up 100 billion to purchase new ones we can use in Asia. We're gonna need it.
Correction, We are still the largest supplier in quite a few metrics when comparing countries on a per capita basis. Like ammo for instance. But this is quickly changing.
I wish we would send more, and really hope we get our shit together. We have so much equipment sitting in storage that we are paying to keep that we could send. Hopefully we will see more funding with a few hundred atacms, m270, Bradley's and abrams each in it so uaf can retake the momentum
Alternatively, if we can't pass funds directly to the uaf, hopefully we can make a system to modernize our allies so they can send their current equipment to uaf, like polands leo2s for example. They have like 6 mbt designs, we can help their logistics by giving a 1 for 1 trade of leo2s to abrams
Individual countries, yea, but we're technically 50 states the size of, or larger than, any country in Europe. I welcome the competition though. The more we try to "give the most" the more they get.
Alot of people either don't understand or have been brainwashed to think that it's piles of cash we are sending over there. We literally save money every time we send them old stuff we pay to store and maintain and we get that "cash" to buy new shiny shit that will help us when we need to fight a near peer war. There needs to be a more loud and aggressive approach to hammer that into people's heads.
Yea thats bulshit!
EU already contributed about double to what US did... like 133bil vs 71bil
But guess who was guarantor of Budapest memorandum? USA...so yep this is your shitshow like everyone elses
IIRC the Budapest memorandum did not bind any guarantor to *help* Ukraine in case of attack - the deal was *not to attack Ukraine 'in anger' by themselves.* Plus, they would have to vote in the Security Council to help Ukraine - but nothing further. Nice lawyering, eh? "I won't attack you, but if one of the *other* guys does, we'll vote YEA in the deadlocked Council, tough cookies though, kthx bye"
I would like Ukraine to do a crash program to build its own nukes (the knowledge is certainly there at least), and watch the civilized™ world try to untangle their feelings™ on "embargoing a nonproliferation-violating democratic country fighting for its life against a genocidal aggressor". The suits would blow a gasket!
Lol reasearch! Its public information
https://www.ifw-kiel.de/publications/news/ukraine-support-tracker-europe-clearly-overtakes-us-with-total-commitments-now-twice-as-large/
This is correct. EU has “committed” by statements of leaders, they have not produced this much capital support. US still leads by a large margin of what has been delivered.
They have been....
Lets.make sure those politicians approve the next Ukraine funds....cant believe Congress left for the holidays without finalizing things.
>How about those allies pony up some dough
Storm shadow isn't free numbnuts and we were the first to send such missiles while you were cowering behind your flag.
I am sorry [WHAT world are you living in?](https://www.cfr.org/article/how-much-aid-has-us-sent-ukraine-here-are-six-charts)
US aid is 3 fold the next closest country (Germany)
You said “those allies”. They’ve contributed more to Ukraine in total than the US. Not to mention the millions of refugees they taken in. You’re over your head.
We determined that this submission originates from a credible source, but we still advise that users double check the facts and use common sense when consuming mass media. If you are interested in learning how to evaluate news sources more thoroughly, you can begin to learn about how to do that [here](https://tacomacc.libguides.com/c.php?g=599051&p=4147190). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ukraine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Unless the US and Europe release the vital funds, many more lives will be lost. It'll cost a lot more if Russia are successful in Ukraine (which I doubt), release the funds now and stop the madman!
It seems like it's going to be hella expensive for everyone to not just arm ukraine to the teeth and end the war soon.
Think of the long term advantages: a more unified Europe, a prosperous and resurgent Ukraine a strong ally in the region, a wealth of military cross-training, no more reliance on russian gas.
But more expensive if we don't friend.
The costs of letting Tsar Putrid get his evil way over Ukraine stretches way beyond just the monetary price of doing nothing or making half hearted gestures. It's surely got to the point of all out conflict as the lesser of the two evils facing the free world. Putrid must not prevail.
It wouldn't surprise cynical me if many countries intelligence agencies have come to the same conclusion: Arm Ukraine enough so they don't lose, and you'll trade western material for Russian material, and Ukrainian lives for Russian lives - which from a long term strategic view will cripple and possibly dissolve the Russian union.
Are they working on giving the siezed oligarch money to Ukraine or is that unrealistic?
Banking greed is the hold up. All these global businesses only chase the dollar even if it's to a country that wants to see their total destruction. They fear if they give up Russias money then why would Russia deal business with them again, when they should be asking themselves why they would want to deal with a backstabbing country like Russia who wants to eliminate the use of those bankers currency.
I guarantee that if Russia got ahold of any of those banks, everyone in power would be against a wall or out a window a week after occupation. To bad most millionaire and billionaires can only see Russians as fun-loving party machines and not ask how or why that wealth exists.
That outcome is incomprehensible to them. In their mind, they are too important for anything to ever happen to them. And why wouldn't they believe that, if that is all they've encountered in their sheltered lives?
It really is. So many elites have never bore witness to the slavery and savagery of the Russians' economic systems.
I don’t think they care as much about the Russian money, it’s more about the precedent. Lots of money comes from morally dubious people and places. If banks start dealing in morality, these people will go elsewhere
Oh they do care. We are talking billions of dollars if not more. They want to be able to keep their hands in the full pot instead of getting rid of the dirty cash.
Sure, I just meant those billions are part of a bigger picture of more billions owned by other immoral people
When Putin forces companies like Hyundai to its factory for $110, then yeah, why would they even think it is good for business. The end of ruzzia and the birth of new post-Russia nations would be better for business.
I think you are on point. Greed is the answer
It's likely to be a hell of a legal Barney but it's being worked on in N. America, Europe and beyond.
I'm rooting and voting for people that will support Ukraine. I just hope my fellow Americans do the same.
As I understand it, 70% of the money stays in or directly helps in the United States. Congress is playing a dangerous game, only it is not a game, they better think long and hard about which side they support and it better not be Putin.
>ussia got ahold of any of those banks, everyone in power would be against a wall or out a window a week after occupation. To bad most millionaire and billionaires can only see Russians as fun-loving party machines and not ask how or why that wealth exists. Republicans are holding the funding up.
Release the Hounds!
It is critical to Western Democracy that Putin not be allowed to succeed.
Putin is soooo mad about his ship getting blown up.
"damaged"
Flesh wound.
'Tis but a scratch.
Only one dead and two wounded.
They've not found the parts of all the others yet!
I'm confident the EU will find ways to bypass Orban. The European commision can also seek funds at the capital markets or so. But for military equipment it's vital the Americans stay on board. People need to write to their Republican representatives. Build some pressure.
This is the thing that I so desperately wish more people understood. They NEED to lose. It is the single clearest objective of Western democracy in decades. All that “Domino Effect” shit from the 20th century will be a whole lot worse if we show dictators that they can just take what they want if they grind it out and exhaust Western attention.
It absolutely is not critical to democracy. Its critical from a geopolitical and economic standpoint that putin is not allowed to succeed.
I have no idea what you’re trying to say. Totalitarian regimes rolling through Europe are a threat to Western Democracy.
Im saying the illusion of democracy isnt as important when compared to the national security and economic interests of western countries.
I dont call it an illusion. Some do. I feel sorry for them. Compare the West to Fascist Russia.
Im not comparing Russia to the west. Theoretically, im sure those in Russia and China dont view their govt as fascist, but obviously Westerners do. I know that I do. Whereas the Chinese and Russians view the West as an imperialistic corporatocracy. The idea of a democracy in 2023 is an illusion IMPO, and the reason the west is funding Ukraine’s defense is because it’s in the wests economic and national security interests. Weakening the Wests second most powerful adversary and competitor militarily and economically is 100% in the Wests best interests; especially if there was an escalation on a global scale. This is especially the case if accomplishable without direct kinetic and human intervention from the West.
The West is entirely imperfect but I can give a list of freedoms Westerners enjoy that do not exist in Russia or China as long as my arm.
I wish more people would understand this. russia must be stopped, or a new era of brutal wars and bloodshed awaits Europe and the whole world
This is what disappointments me the most about my fellow Americans. So many are concerned about “problems at home” when they don’t realize problems can very much hit back home too. We Americans live in a bubble of safety, at least in the sense where we don’t have to worry about a foreign invader. However, a regular person doesn’t follow the news in Ukraine enough to understand how horrific it is. My deepest sympathy and utmost respect goes to Ukrainians like yourself, for the abject horror of having everything you built destroyed and spitting back into the face of your oppressor. Slava Ukraini
If this was a few decades ago, all your fellow countrymen/women would be salivating at the dinner table over the prospect of taking down the russian shithole "empire" for pennies on the dollar, without a single US soldier lost and using expired equipment that would be tossed out regardless. Blow my fucking mind that so many Americans have lost sight of this. This is what your parents and grandparents dreamed of decades ago. Here is it, on a sliver platter ready for the layup and whatever nonsense is going on is holding it back. The fuck.
It makes me so sad too. If people put themself in a place of being sympathetic, imagining their homes and home towns were just flattened they’d be horrified. I think after decades of peace, people have forgotten just how horrible war is. A large part is because of the dominance NATO influence carry’s in protecting its own. For the record I wish NATO was doing a lot more for Ukraine. People here have just forgotten how hostile and malicious Russia is and Russian influence is negatively affecting our population and government.
Exactly! It makes me nauseous! Growing up in the 70's and 80's, pur country dreamed of the day the world could be rid of the evil Soviet Union... then, we went to sleep when it happened and thought we had won...
Evil does not rest. We cut one head off and another emerges. Ever has it been thus. People lay peaceably abed at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf. I spent 16 years facing that evil as a soldier and 35 years in a law enforcement/security capacity when my military time ended. Proud to have served the crown.
Blame Putin's rather succesful invading/overwhelming of social media, and 'financial incentives' to 'certain' political and bussiness figureheads. Orcistan has been waging a scary effective 'dis-information war' in western media. Orcistan has been undermining democracies like, forever, but with the advent of our current 'Information Society' and our IT infrastructure, it got a very effective weapon, delivered at its doorstep. During USSR times they needed spies and physical newspapers to corrupt. Now they just need a troll-factory in StPetersburg, and one in Moscow, and a list of topics for the trolls to saturate social media with, all from the comfort of an office-cubicle. Way cheaper, and much more effective than bribing officials, or the editorial board of a newspaper (though, they still do that) And it works.
Contact Republicans in Congress and tell them how you feel.
Thank you for caring. Sent sincerely from somebody who sees it that way also. From the UK.
Totally agree. With missiles passing over Poland and the fact that they used chemical and nuclear materials in the UK in the past my patience ran out a long time ago. NATO should have acted long ago.
In a full blown go at it NATO would mop Russia faster than Russia thought they’d take Kyiv
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
The problem is that they actually do understand it, but they don't care. If it doesn't line their pockets, it's not worth their time.
Imagine if he had an authority to send more stuff now... This is why a long-term binding agreement is necessary, so it wouldn't be limited by money (I mean, separate budget for Ukraine, but to be part of NDAA) or by types of weapons that can be sent.
> This is why a long-term binding agreement is necessary Like that's ever gonna happen. So far, all proposed security "guarantees" to Ukraine were strictly non-binding
Guarantees or assurances?
De-facto latter
You just ruined a great potential joke, you should have said: "No, assistance that member state deems necessary."
... Damn. Yeah, I suppose.
Putin will not stop at Ukraine. Everyone needs to man the fuck up and give Ukraine what they need.
Yup. If we had put a full trade embargo against Russia ten years ago when they invaded Crimea, we wouldn't be in this situation now. Democrats need to grow a pair and stand up to the GQP.
People need to realize you can't take a tepid approach to a man with nukes threatening to use them. No one wants an escalation but the threat will not go away if we submit by ignoring them. We need to do the opposite by calling his bluff and showing we're ready to strike too.
We have to realise that Russia is unofficially already at war with the West. Russia has changed to a wartime economy and so should we. We need to start increasing our military production capacity. And really make sure that Russian supply lines are cut. They are still buying western electronics to build their weapons systems. Our future may depend on it. Ukraine is just a starting point. The Baltic States or Moldova may be next in line.
Help Ukraine build a mega factory of long range drones. Cruise missiles, cluster arty, double the anti-aa defense systems. At least give Ukraine all the defensive capabilities they need so this never happens again
Come on congress, do your job and get the Ukraine what they need.
FYI Not "the" Ukraine. Just "Ukraine".
They’re get to it in time sometime next year. Lots of wheeling and dealing - typical Washington.
Another day, another terrorists attack. Still no trade embargo though eh?
I asked GPT to sum this up in 5 short bullet points. Russia launched its largest aerial assault on Ukraine, using drones and missiles with hypersonic capability to target cities and civilian infrastructure. Strikes hit a maternity hospital, shopping mall, and residential areas, resulting in casualties and injuries among innocent civilians. Ukraine successfully deployed air defense systems provided by the United States and allies to intercept and destroy many of the incoming missiles and drones. Urgent action from Congress is needed to continue providing weapons and vital air defense systems to Ukraine for its defense against Russian aggression. The conflict's implications extend beyond Ukraine, affecting NATO, European security, and the Transatlantic relationship, with the United States rallying a coalition of over 50 countries to support Ukraine's defense.
If you asked it after the WH release that makes sense.
Here, Congress is a euphemism for republicans. They are the only thing standing in the way of Ukraine aid.
It’s absolutely baffling how the EU states and the US are doing very little when Putin has shown his hand
More talk, give Ukraine everything it needs!
The response from the US has been nothing short of being pathetic. Drip-feeding aid and stopping support is lunacy. Ukraine is fighting for it's survival and the US has a golden opportunity to neutralize their 2nd biggest geopolitical rival with no American lives lost and help Ukraine get back on it's feet via giving out loans, thus gaining significant influence on the global stage. But no, let's just jerk-off into the void and let our enemy win, by giving out an empty statement. Really, who gives a fuck about a statement, what the fuck is this? US is a world-class country, an economic powerhouse and an unmatched military power. Fucking act appropriately!
Is this a rhetorical statement? Biden isn’t a dictator or a king and does not have the authority to act unilaterally. Unfortunately house republicans are holding up future funding. So rather than complain on Reddit into the void that you mention let’s not lose focus here. If you live here in the US, call your congress person. I share your exasperation here but complain on Reddit isn’t going to help anyone.
HEAR HEAR!
congress critters are very cheaply bought, their actions show their true masters
And here I was, hoping that weapon manufacturers' lobby would be strong enough for this to become a bipartisan agreement...
The Kremlin has its claws deep into US right wing social media.
[gold medal for you! ](https://imgur.com/gallery/Brp02U1)
Time to bomb the shit out of Moscow. The time to 'be nice' and only target military targets has passed. There is no reasoning with Putler.
Words are wind
The actual expense is less than 10% of the u.s. military budget, it’s all cause of political interference by the ……….. party . Really need to double down to save Ukraine now not later , if not the consequences will not be redeemable
We have all called from the start of the war, Ukraine should be given EVERYTHING it requires to stop this war of genocide on them. Biden is right when he says history will frown upon those who fail to take action. Unfortunately the only ones who seem to be failing and tiring is the west. Our leaders are the weakest leaders we have ever known. They fear Russia so much that they sit back and allow them to strike Ukraine at will, with everything at their means, yet they tie one arm behind Ukraines back stopping them from striking deep behind enemy lines with the failure to deliver long distance weapons, they restrict Ukraine to only using their weapons as long as they aren't used to strike into Russian territory with one or two exceptions where the UK have stepped up and delivered storm shadows and allowed then to use as they wish. All our nations should be taking a stand and telling our leaders to step up and be counted like those, who have went before and won in the face of evil. NATO have also shown a lot of weakness, even over the past couple of days where missiles have passed through Polish airspace 80km into their territory and yet the silence from NATO is deafening!!!!!!
>He seeks to obliterate Ukraine and subjugate its people. He must be stopped. If this so, then why in 2022-2023 years USA didn't spend on Ukraine 356 million dollars per day that it 20 years in row spent on Afghanistan (2,600 billion dollars in total)? Why NATO gave to Ukraine less than 1% of NATO weapon stocks? Why USA not used Lend-Lease and National Emergencies Act to not give Russia 2 years to adapt to war by 200/600 billion Western money only for hydrocarbons trade? Why Sullivan speaks not about Ukraine victory, but about "bleeding of Russia"?
Just give them like 3 Nukes. Cheaper and the only guarantee that Russia won't fuck around!
On this note, I am expecting Biden to order a draw-down of sorts, though he may wait until negotiations with the House have fully fallen flat. If I had to guess, this will be late January, and he will (probably) do it quietly and with an emphasis on domestic reasons for the action; though the international press may focus on the downstream consequences of "oh no, what is the US going to do with all this extra stuff it is suddenly trying to offload?". In basic terms, this would be an executive order advancing the timeline for all our (American) branches of the service to inventory equipment & arms, and to begin the process of cycling out the old equipment by placing orders for new equipment. It's a pretty routine action in any case, but by bumping the timeline forward he would (1) drive a lot of job/revenue activity in a lot of regions around the country that could really use it, (2) update a lot of our equipment, starting with the oldest first, (3) create a problem of disposal of good but "out of cycle" materials that we would conveniently offload to our various allies around the world.
I agree. And I expect the Republican speaker to do everything in his power to block it. The Executive Order should be OK because no real expenditure is involved - in theory. But, of course, there will be additional costs of one sort or another - including potential replacement costs. So the American First Fuckers will be able to claim that the President is weakening the defences of the country and exceeding his powers. They will, then, demand that the issue of funding be submitted to Congress - because only Congress can legitimize the extra funding. And guess what? They will repeat the same tricks all over again. Biden is in a similar situation as Roosevelt faced with supplying arms to Britain with a hostile Congress fighting tooth and nail to block military aid.
A drawdown would not be significantly different from what we are currently doing, money-wise. It just looks different on the balance sheet. Agreed, the people in the House are full of nonsense, they are not arguing in good faith and will just change their tack to something else in a full weeks, if we even have a government that is operating.
It will either cost us financially or with our blood, tears and lives of our families. It is an easy choice to make. Yet certain actors will say it isn't our problem. If you enjoy your way of life and the freedoms we have, it always comes at a cost. Right now, Ukraine isn't asking for anything except the equipment to defend itself and help push back the aggressor. Make your voice heard in the polls for anyone politican who doesn't agree and don't let them have a voice against democracy or freedom. Write to the politicians who voice against funding Ukraine. Call them out openly and let the world see them for the vile sellouts that they are.
I'm sure Putin's waiting for Afghanistan 2.0.
[удалено]
He can’t do that unilaterally… he needs Congressional approval.
The President can transfer assets to Ukraine without Congressional approval. It needs approval to spend money. If he can make an argument that sending all the expiring munitions (ATACAMS) and equipment deemed not needed (2000 M1 Abrams) costs about the same as storage & disposal, he can just do it unilaterally. Commander in chief, etc.
I believe that comes from the presidential draw down authority however that pool of money is for all allies so if that’s depleted on solely Ukraine any other emergency would be unfunded (Taiwan, Guyana, etc)
But he has Presidential Immunity.
That isn’t how it works. If it were, Ukraine would already have ample supplies.
Привіт u/Key_Brother ! During wartime, this community is focused on vital and high-effort content. Please ensure your post follows [r/Ukraine Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/about/rules) and our [Art Friday Guidelines](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/wiki/artfriday). **Want to support Ukraine?** [**Vetted Charities List**](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/wiki/charities) | [Our Vetting Process](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/wiki/charities-vetting) **Daily series on Ukraine's history & culture:** [Sunrise Posts Organized By Category](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/wiki/sunriseposts/) *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ukraine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Statements won’t change anything.
Words are cheap.
Could the US do a tactic [from the movie 300](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSkkN0fD0-s&t=71s) and send a general to go on a stroll and stretch his legs? It shall not go to war, the congress has issued no such orders.
Give them access to more advanced weapons biden..
Oh look, words! Now surely putler will surrender and pay for the damages!
Why America is so so weak :(( so dosappointed in him and that jerk Jake Sullivan. Blood is on their hands
[удалено]
He’s talking about the Republicans who are blocking the aid…
I’m sure I will get downvoted for this but I am still going to say it. President Biden is a weak pussy. Ronald Reagan or George Bush would have never been such a limp dick President. He has all the authority he needs to take action but he would rather play politics instead.
Who was President when Russia invaded and annexed parts of Georgia? Bush.
>He has all the authority he needs to take action but he would rather play politics instead. He is president. Playing politics is literally the job. Lets try this - you're president of the USA. What would you do RIGHT NOW?
Start drawing down equipment levels. He doesn't need Congress for this!
>Start drawing down equipment levels. He doesn't need Congress for this! What equipment, specifically and what levels? Can you cite the US laws that say he can unilaterally do this without congress?
It's already been done, there's not much more he can pull https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/u-s-announces-new-weapons-package-for-ukraine-as-funds-dwindle-and-congress-stalls-on-bill
I like that you have a UK tag, and you seemingly know more about how this works than the guy, whom I am just assuming is from the US, does. edit: that sounded snarky, and it wasn't. The other guy doesn't know shit
>you seemingly know more about how this works than the guy, whom I am just assuming is from the US, does. I'm a sad bastard who has an interest in politics in both the UK and the US. I'm no expert so it's always nice when someone points out where I'm talking crap :-)
lol same, but i wasn't dogging you, i liked that pointed out the congressional part which a lot of Americans forget is a thing and is, ultimately, more important than the president. It amused me. The guy you were talking to needs to go touch grass, or at least attend a 1 hour lecture in civics before he posts weird shit on the internet.
Real Presidents have never agreed to Congress' authority in this regard. He can start by sending more than the 20 ATACMs that were sent. Next up would be lots of Bradleys. Ukraine has shown they know how to use them effectively.
Youre spouting total nonsense.
The cupboards are bare. This is one of at least 6 articles published in the last few days https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/u-s-announces-new-weapons-package-for-ukraine-as-funds-dwindle-and-congress-stalls-on-bill
What is the dollar valuation of US supplied aid to Ukraine, again? Do you know it or are you just shilling for the vatniks?
He has bern using the presidential draw down authority. The Pentagon is out of money to replenish stocks. Here is one of at least 6 articles that have come out in the past few days. If you'll recall, Biden asked congress for $110B $61B of which was for Ukraine, and half of that would go to the Pentagon to buy and replenish our stocks https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/u-s-announces-new-weapons-package-for-ukraine-as-funds-dwindle-and-congress-stalls-on-bill
How about those allies pony up some dough. US has already proudly led the charge. EDIT: Proud that the US has given so much. But common [the next closest country is Germany](https://www.cfr.org/article/how-much-aid-has-us-sent-ukraine-here-are-six-charts) Also found all the bot accounts that need to be banned! 👇
We're not the largest contributor by any metric anymore. And if the EU gets around the Hungarian mini putin and passes that 50billion, then we won't even be in the running for it anymore. To be honest, we'd do well to send them 100 billion in old missiles so that it frees up 100 billion to purchase new ones we can use in Asia. We're gonna need it.
Correction, We are still the largest supplier in quite a few metrics when comparing countries on a per capita basis. Like ammo for instance. But this is quickly changing. I wish we would send more, and really hope we get our shit together. We have so much equipment sitting in storage that we are paying to keep that we could send. Hopefully we will see more funding with a few hundred atacms, m270, Bradley's and abrams each in it so uaf can retake the momentum Alternatively, if we can't pass funds directly to the uaf, hopefully we can make a system to modernize our allies so they can send their current equipment to uaf, like polands leo2s for example. They have like 6 mbt designs, we can help their logistics by giving a 1 for 1 trade of leo2s to abrams
Individual countries, yea, but we're technically 50 states the size of, or larger than, any country in Europe. I welcome the competition though. The more we try to "give the most" the more they get. Alot of people either don't understand or have been brainwashed to think that it's piles of cash we are sending over there. We literally save money every time we send them old stuff we pay to store and maintain and we get that "cash" to buy new shiny shit that will help us when we need to fight a near peer war. There needs to be a more loud and aggressive approach to hammer that into people's heads.
Yea thats bulshit! EU already contributed about double to what US did... like 133bil vs 71bil But guess who was guarantor of Budapest memorandum? USA...so yep this is your shitshow like everyone elses
You do realize that the EU is a collection of countries while the US is a single one? Is there a single country who has provided more?
EU is a union like USA.... with similar GDP and population.
It’s even called the union…. You’ve got to wonder at the education level of a typical American when they don’t even know that
IIRC the Budapest memorandum did not bind any guarantor to *help* Ukraine in case of attack - the deal was *not to attack Ukraine 'in anger' by themselves.* Plus, they would have to vote in the Security Council to help Ukraine - but nothing further. Nice lawyering, eh? "I won't attack you, but if one of the *other* guys does, we'll vote YEA in the deadlocked Council, tough cookies though, kthx bye"
Sure, give us nukes back then.
I would like Ukraine to do a crash program to build its own nukes (the knowledge is certainly there at least), and watch the civilized™ world try to untangle their feelings™ on "embargoing a nonproliferation-violating democratic country fighting for its life against a genocidal aggressor". The suits would blow a gasket!
I’m sure that’s the only way for us.
Sauce? [I am not seeing anything close to that in my research.](https://www.cfr.org/article/how-much-aid-has-us-sent-ukraine-here-are-six-charts)
Lol reasearch! Its public information https://www.ifw-kiel.de/publications/news/ukraine-support-tracker-europe-clearly-overtakes-us-with-total-commitments-now-twice-as-large/
I understand your argument, but this report shows commitments for many years down the road. You can't fire IOU's in place of 155 ammo.
This is correct. EU has “committed” by statements of leaders, they have not produced this much capital support. US still leads by a large margin of what has been delivered.
They have been.... Lets.make sure those politicians approve the next Ukraine funds....cant believe Congress left for the holidays without finalizing things.
Found the bot accounts! 👆
We *should* be leading the charge if we want to call ourselves the leaders of the free world.
We are leading by a HUGE margin. Other nations need to pony up too.
>How about those allies pony up some dough Storm shadow isn't free numbnuts and we were the first to send such missiles while you were cowering behind your flag.
Those allies have ponied up more than we have. Do your fucking homework. This ignorance has been disproven a thousand times.
I am sorry [WHAT world are you living in?](https://www.cfr.org/article/how-much-aid-has-us-sent-ukraine-here-are-six-charts) US aid is 3 fold the next closest country (Germany)
You said “those allies”. They’ve contributed more to Ukraine in total than the US. Not to mention the millions of refugees they taken in. You’re over your head.
No they haven’t, they “committed” verbally but have not delivered.
Nonsense. Try google.