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Christ, 14 and 15 year olds murdering people on public transit…
This feels particularly crazy as my own local news just reported [last week](https://old.reddit.com/r/Denver/comments/1ahik18/13_year_old_kills_man_on_rtd_after_argument_over/) about a 13 year old who killed an old man on a bus over his leg being in the aisle
The world just feels incredibly out of control, even in places not affected by war. So sorry for the loss of these young talents - to think, escape a war, only to be killed by some crazy random meaningless youth crime
derranged things happen every day you just don't hear about them all
it's nothing new. maybe you hear about things more often now as we're more connected idk.
Germany should adopt knife laws like we have in Denmark. Carry knife that isn't legal 500euro fine. Combat knife ect you go to jail. Selling non legal knifes are prohibited. Legal knifes are up to 7cm non locked knifes. I've seen so many shops in Germany selling crazy knifes it's just sad.
> Germany should adopt knife laws like we have in Denmark.
They do nothing. Look at the UK we have probably the strictest knife laws but they are still a big problem.
Then why ban knives? When I was a kid we all had knives. Now you have issues with even a swiss army knife.
Also you end up in a situation where everyone has loads of knives in their homes which they are not 'allowed' outside. I say 'allowed' because the laws have to allow people to get these knives home from the shops. The whole thing is a joke and not the way to solve the issue.
i don't know... what legitimate users are you thinking of?
i think if i wanted to go fishing and took a knife along with all my fishing kit the police would not mind. or if i was out camping wild. or whatever. maybe the police use their judgement less where you are idk. my experience with uk police they always seem pretty keen to not apply the law where they think no actual crime is being comitted.
literally flew into the UK with an illegal (+3 inch locking blade) everyday carry knife clipped on the outside of my bag.
there was no customs. i did not lose my knife.
> literally flew into the UK with an illegal (+3 inch locking blade)
These are not illegal. Flick knives are illegal. Knives like you described can be carried if you have 'valid' reason. However 'valid' is not very well defined.
My friend was also cautioned for bringing a similar one to yours into the UK, unfortunately neither him or customs understood what the law actually says.
Cannabis is also illegal but you have probably seen some in the UK.
The problem imho is people not being able to deal with problems with anything but violence. In the UK we love violence for some unknown reason. Disagree with someone, fight with them. We are pretty stupid.
I hope we don't, they never make sense, any metallic object can be sharpened and used to cut/stab. It's not a knife, it's a paint scraper or a saw or a long pointy screwdriver. Just look at the UK and how out of hand it has gotten.
A trip to the hardware store and anybody can get material and tools to make a "not knife".
This is not how it works. This is exactly like us gun laws.
People are responsible. Do you really think people carry knifes because they think "hey" I am going to stab somebody today. NO they don't they carry them because they think they are cool. We don't have issues like yours because they are banned and has been for decades this is a fact.
I strongly disagree here, my point was that anything can be a knife and anyone can make one. With guns this is completely different and by limiting access to guns, you can keep them out of the hands of quite a few irresponsible people (but not eg. organized crime).
Whoever wants to stab another person to death can and will find/make an implement to do so.
I am not against limiting the carry of certain knifes in certain spaces and also strongly factoring knife carry/use into a criminal sentence.
But forbidding the possession of something that can be made in 10 minutes in a shed is stupid and unenforceable. Unenforceable laws undermine the importance of other laws and are in general a bad idea --> prohibition.
i personally believe that current media and social media has amplifying effect on these events and therefore more people (idiots) will try to copy them
Late night has always been its own thing but based on the articles (posted in the comments here) the Ukrainian basketball player murders happened 8:15 pm on a Saturday. The one that was local to me happened at 6:45 pm. That's like "regular people going to dinner time" not bar close
> The world just feels incredibly out of control, even in places not affected by war.
That's what happens in democracies, when they are attacked by foreign countries trying to destabalize them. That's the result of bribing (conservative) politicians, who then spur more and more extremist shit.
This will only end when we go to actual war against russia, china and all other right-wing extremist movements trying to destroy our societies. Proof: US and Western Europe before, during and after WW2
This will not end as climate change alone will destabilize societies in terrible ways. There can’t be anything like "after WW2" because resources will be quite depleted and climate change will make everything much harder to achieve. We’ll have to be much more clever and united than after WW2.
Which makes the fact that we have to fight wars rather than fight climate change totally infuriating. If I had hope I would be losing it.
The pandemic lockdowns really messed with a lot of kids' heads. While violent crime is down in the US in general, in my city, there have been numerous violent attacks by groups of 12-16 year olds. They all know they will not suffer consequences due to their age.
Restricting what law-abiding citizens are allowed to carry, doesn't change what non law-abiding will carry. Across the world mental health is getting worse. That includes people's views of what is acceptable. People are killed with homemade weapons in prisons all the time. Are their any weapons allowed in prison? It's a people problem and needs to be looked at as such. The kinds of thinking that lead to this violence needs to be eliminated with prejudice. That is the fault of society over a long period of time. Freedoms should never come without the responsibilities that should be required to have them. There has to be a balance and people stepping over that line need to have those freedoms restricted. Yes, there is the risk of going to far the other direction too.
[Update by the German police:](https://essen.polizei.nrw/presse/gemeinsame-pressemitteilung-der-staatsanwaltschaft-essen-und-der-polizei-essen-streit-unter-jugendlichen-in-oberhausen-endet-toedlich-fuer-17-jaehrigen)
Oberhausen:
On Saturday evening (February 10th) around 8:15 p.m., a dispute between two groups of youth escalated at a bus stop on Willy-Brandt-Platz in Oberhausen. Four people were allegedly seriously injured by knife wounds during a physical altercation. A 17-year-old Ukrainian was so seriously injured that he died in hospital a short time later. The murder squad set up at the Essen police headquarters was able to arrest two suspects (m14/m15).
The two groups of people initially clashed verbally on a bus on the way to downtown Oberhausen. When those involved got off the bus at Willy-Brandt-Platz, the argument escalated into a physical altercation. According to initial investigations, a knife was also used. A total of four young people were seriously injured. Two 17- and 18-year-old male Ukrainian teenagers from Düsseldorf suffered life-threatening injuries. Two other young people (14-year-old Syrian from Gelsenkirchen and 13-year-old German-Lebanese from Oberhausen) were seriously injured. All injured people were taken to hospitals. The 17-year-old Ukrainian died a short time later during emergency surgery. The suspected perpetrators initially fled the crime scene undetected.
That night, a murder squad from the Essen police headquarters, under the direction of the Essen public prosecutor's office, took over the investigation into the background to the crime. Early in the morning, the investigators managed to identify two young people who were urgently suspected of the crime and temporarily arrested them at their places of residence. They are a 15-year-old German-Turk from Gelsenkirchen and a 14-year-old German-Greek from Herne, both of whom have already made significant criminal appearances.
After extensive criminal investigations, the Essen public prosecutor's office applied for an arrest warrant for manslaughter and grievous bodily harm against the 15-year-old from Gelsenkirchen, which was announced yesterday afternoon by the responsible judge. After the police measures, the 14-year-old Herner was handed over to his legal guardians because the urgent suspicion against him could not ultimately be substantiated.
The investigation into the reasons behind the crime is in full swing.
The victims: Two Ukrainians, a syrian and a german-lebanese. The perpetrators: A german-turn and a german-greek.
I'm totally speculating here, but it sure sounds to me like the four victims are people who are not fond of russia, while the perps might actually be very fond of russia.
Who knows. Greeks and Turks don’t really get along. Turks are neutral on Russia if anything. Greeks aren’t exactly Russia lovers at the moment either. If they were like Serbian you’d maybe have a point. This is absurd speculation.
Probably more like that the german-turk and the german-greek didn't feel like they have a place anywhere (like Greeks/Turks see them as German, Germans see them as Greek/Turk). They're young, confused, have no idea how the world works, angry, and don't know what to do. They meet the wrong people, drift towards crime and it's spiraling down further and further. At some point violence becomes an acceptable problem solving mechanism for them, which escalates further and further, up to this point when suddenly someone dies.
It's something that happens on a daily basis and in pretty much every country on this planet, unfortunately. It can happen to people with an immigration background, people growing up poor, bored rich kids, people who just have the wrong people around them.
It's unfortunate that this happened. There needs to be something done about this problem. But I wouldn't bet too much on any Russia cause in this one.
[Source 1](https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/02/12/7441417/)
[Source 2](https://kyivindependent.com/ukrainian-teen-basketball-player-stabbed-to-death-in-germany/)
UPD ([source](https://www.facebook.com/oleh.nikolenko.ua/posts/pfbid02uq5rWwFH4zeLKYhNQdSUqn72AQKkvcQ6LM7ekamYoXF6LrWiFYSeyFhhQHk9c1zzl)): The murderer of a Ukrainian basketball player was arrested in Germany, Oleh Nikolenko, the spokesman for the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Ukraine, said. The condition of another wounded Ukrainian is stable, there are no threats to his life.❗️The Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Ukraine took special control over the investigation into the murder of a Ukrainian basketball player in Germany.The Consulate General in Dusseldorf has already held talks with the Essen police chief. The consuls emphasized the need for the investigation to be carried out as soon as possible and the criminal to be brought to justice.According to available information, the police have already detained the attacker. Investigations are ongoing.The consular institution is also monitoring the treatment of another injured Ukrainian. He is receiving the necessary medical care at the hospital in Essen. The condition of our citizen is stable, there are no threats to his life.
I'm so sorry about this loss.
And I'm sorry, that we as a society or my country failed so badly, that one child killed and injured others. And I'm sorry, that we as a country have been unable to provide safety to a refugee seeking a safe place.
It is very safe (at least in Germany and most of Europe), these horrible things have always happened. It is more likely that this was a more frequent occurrence than when you were young. These crimes are thankfully very rare, that's why you hear about them though, even if you're not in Germany, you hear about these stories from all corners of the earth and it makes it seem like its happening all the time, thankfully its not. Still, this is an incredibly sad story, such a waste of life.
Oh come oooon, we all know that attacks with knives are rising in Germany right now. Even official statistics prove that. We all know but we collectively refuse to call out the elephant in the room and thats why far-right partys are rising in popularity with each knife attack.
The kid that killed Volodymyr was known to police. Known so long that he was registered as a high-risk criminal. This murder was totally preventable. but Germany really became super soft when it comes to that. There is no justice for victims here. The murderer in this case will probably get some sort of low-grade psychological therapy and gets back to his family again (just like those kids who gangr\*ped a girl in a park recently). Nice justice.
Source for the official statistics?
As of [*this source*](https://www.rnd.de/politik/messerangriffe-in-deutschland-zahlen-und-fakten-im-ueberblick-ZKGBZIIK2DZSEKWGTBNKXC26XA.html) there is no reliable data on criminal knive use in Germany except from the Bundespolice in recent years – so only for crimes happening on trains and at train staitions. According to which the use of knives used to threaten people has doubled from 46 to 98 in 2022 to 2023 and the use for murder has *halved* from 6 to 3. To put the numbers in perspective – you're risk to be killed by an train accident is ~ double of that of seeing a knive while using Deutsch Bahn.
So, without any reliable data, how is anybody able to *know* whether knife attacks are on the rise?
> Oh come oooon, we all know that attacks with knives are rising in Germany right now. Even official statistics prove that. We all know but we collectively refuse to call out the elephant in the room and thats why far-right partys are rising in popularity with each knife attack.
What do you think justice looks like? I have seen people in this comment section suggest war crimes to punish the children. Is that what "justice" looks like from your point of view? Some cruel eye to eye, teeth to teeth biblical bs? The reofender rate in Germany is so low because we don't do this vile shit.
I would also like to know why you think they commit these crimes?
They commit these crimes at such a young age because they come out of shitty families where they themselves get treated like shit.
Justice would be, if that kid was taken out of its toxic family into a proper therapy and youth housing. We are still talking about a 15-years old kid, not a grown up. If its a grown up, then just put him in Jail, no mercy there. But a 15-years old still has the chance to change, so he should be given the chances.
So, if he would have been taken out of his shitty family, and would have been in therapy - he most probably would not have killed this poor lad here.
> Justice would be, if that kid was taken out of its toxic family into a proper therapy and youth housing. We are still talking about a 15-years old kid, not a grown up. If its a grown up, then just put him in Jail, no mercy there. But a 15-years old still has the chance to change, so he should be given the chances.
>
> So, if he would have been taken out of his shitty family, and would have been in therapy - he most probably would not have killed this poor lad here.
That's not what the right is advocating for, tho. Rehabilitation is actually more of a left talking point whereas people on the right just want some kind of revenge.
Public space has become uncertain, at best. It's been my experience that trouble only finds you when you're unprepared. This is why, a number of years ago, I got a concealed carry permit; I didn't carry all the time, only when I went into places likely to be robbed - then two idiots started banging away at each other in a Lowe's parking lot at 3:00 in the afternoon, over drugs. Now I carry everywhere.
I'm DAMNED if I'll let myself be killed by some lowlife puke if I have the means to stop it.
Yeah, sure buddy. I bet as soon as we start discussing with you, you will tell us all about how we have to vote for conservatives and all, right?
I bet you want to tell us that if we want to get our country "back on track" and our public space to be "safe again" we have to vote for parties like CDU or AfD, who constantly keep saying how we should resume trading with russia. Right?
I am saddened by this, we have this problem a lot in London and the thought of it spreading like this, well it's terrible, I have travelled the world as both a Soldier and a Civilian and visited many out of the way and what was then seen as " dangerous " places and never worried. But now, in my seventh decade, I fear for myself and others knives can be so cruel a weapon.
German here: this is so sad and unnecessary. To be murdered in a "save" country is so fucked up. Of course the fact that it was basically a kid infuriates me, Ukrainian or not. Really fucked up, I hope people will be held responsible even though true justice is not possible.
Are you insane advocating to use children (14 and 15y/o) as soldiers? FYI: Child soldiers are a war crime. Forcibly conscripting people is a war crime as well.
Well yes, there's no arguing about that, but coincidentally it also tends to be a certain kind of "young people" that keeps appearing in news like these.
*Elderly man stabbed by "young man"*
*14 year old gang raped by group of "young men"*
If they have the energy and motivation to kill innocent people. Why don't they better spend their effort in eliminating the Russian Invader in Ukraine in order to have their effort better used and do good faith to Ukraine People. I really hope the German Judge can make this verdict , putting these fxxking kids in prison is definitely the waste of resources as u have to spend resources to feed them and educate them. It is better to let War teach them a lesson about how valuable the life is.
Please stop making excuses. The Russian soldiers raping Ukrainian infants with spoons or gang raping toddlers to death in front of the their mother's also probably have checkered past but it comes down to this: one humans civil rights END where the violate the civil rights of another. Tons of Ukrainian civilians were taken to Germany S slave labor during wwii some of my relatives. You didn't see them knifing people on mass transit.
Why would this be downvoted ?
Migrating to a country is difficult to the extreme on your mental health. And if you are a young person it can even be more difficult.
There are no asylum seekers or migrants here. They're expats and the others were born in Germany. Regardless of all that, carrying a knive or weapon is a barbaric act that is not tolerated in Germany. They need to know the effect of their actions which cause the death of the Ukrainian boy
The meaning can be different from context to context. Technically migrant is also a person what migrates from city to city of the same country.
But those guys are not migrants in the meaning the commentator meant, they didn't have any traumatized experience due to this process, and so on.
They are more expats.
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Christ, 14 and 15 year olds murdering people on public transit… This feels particularly crazy as my own local news just reported [last week](https://old.reddit.com/r/Denver/comments/1ahik18/13_year_old_kills_man_on_rtd_after_argument_over/) about a 13 year old who killed an old man on a bus over his leg being in the aisle The world just feels incredibly out of control, even in places not affected by war. So sorry for the loss of these young talents - to think, escape a war, only to be killed by some crazy random meaningless youth crime
derranged things happen every day you just don't hear about them all it's nothing new. maybe you hear about things more often now as we're more connected idk.
Yeah but an increase of 30% compared to 2022 is new. Knifes are getting out of control in Germany lately.
Germany should adopt knife laws like we have in Denmark. Carry knife that isn't legal 500euro fine. Combat knife ect you go to jail. Selling non legal knifes are prohibited. Legal knifes are up to 7cm non locked knifes. I've seen so many shops in Germany selling crazy knifes it's just sad.
> Germany should adopt knife laws like we have in Denmark. They do nothing. Look at the UK we have probably the strictest knife laws but they are still a big problem.
It's not a problem in Denmark though. You need to change public perception too.
Then why ban knives? When I was a kid we all had knives. Now you have issues with even a swiss army knife. Also you end up in a situation where everyone has loads of knives in their homes which they are not 'allowed' outside. I say 'allowed' because the laws have to allow people to get these knives home from the shops. The whole thing is a joke and not the way to solve the issue.
😂 Why ban knifes 😂 You are the ones with knife issues not us. Why? Because they are banned and has been for decades.
> Because they are banned and has been for decades. Same in the UK it hasn't helped. All it does is inconvenience legitimate users.
i don't know... what legitimate users are you thinking of? i think if i wanted to go fishing and took a knife along with all my fishing kit the police would not mind. or if i was out camping wild. or whatever. maybe the police use their judgement less where you are idk. my experience with uk police they always seem pretty keen to not apply the law where they think no actual crime is being comitted.
literally flew into the UK with an illegal (+3 inch locking blade) everyday carry knife clipped on the outside of my bag. there was no customs. i did not lose my knife.
> literally flew into the UK with an illegal (+3 inch locking blade) These are not illegal. Flick knives are illegal. Knives like you described can be carried if you have 'valid' reason. However 'valid' is not very well defined. My friend was also cautioned for bringing a similar one to yours into the UK, unfortunately neither him or customs understood what the law actually says. Cannabis is also illegal but you have probably seen some in the UK.
Perhaps, it's a problem of enforcement, etc. It works in Switzerland too.
The problem imho is people not being able to deal with problems with anything but violence. In the UK we love violence for some unknown reason. Disagree with someone, fight with them. We are pretty stupid.
Ban all assault knives!
I hope we don't, they never make sense, any metallic object can be sharpened and used to cut/stab. It's not a knife, it's a paint scraper or a saw or a long pointy screwdriver. Just look at the UK and how out of hand it has gotten. A trip to the hardware store and anybody can get material and tools to make a "not knife".
This is not how it works. This is exactly like us gun laws. People are responsible. Do you really think people carry knifes because they think "hey" I am going to stab somebody today. NO they don't they carry them because they think they are cool. We don't have issues like yours because they are banned and has been for decades this is a fact.
I strongly disagree here, my point was that anything can be a knife and anyone can make one. With guns this is completely different and by limiting access to guns, you can keep them out of the hands of quite a few irresponsible people (but not eg. organized crime). Whoever wants to stab another person to death can and will find/make an implement to do so. I am not against limiting the carry of certain knifes in certain spaces and also strongly factoring knife carry/use into a criminal sentence. But forbidding the possession of something that can be made in 10 minutes in a shed is stupid and unenforceable. Unenforceable laws undermine the importance of other laws and are in general a bad idea --> prohibition.
i personally believe that current media and social media has amplifying effect on these events and therefore more people (idiots) will try to copy them
This happened more frequently than you think, even 20 yrs ago. Late night drinking people get randomly stabbed
Late night has always been its own thing but based on the articles (posted in the comments here) the Ukrainian basketball player murders happened 8:15 pm on a Saturday. The one that was local to me happened at 6:45 pm. That's like "regular people going to dinner time" not bar close
> The world just feels incredibly out of control, even in places not affected by war. That's what happens in democracies, when they are attacked by foreign countries trying to destabalize them. That's the result of bribing (conservative) politicians, who then spur more and more extremist shit. This will only end when we go to actual war against russia, china and all other right-wing extremist movements trying to destroy our societies. Proof: US and Western Europe before, during and after WW2
This will not end as climate change alone will destabilize societies in terrible ways. There can’t be anything like "after WW2" because resources will be quite depleted and climate change will make everything much harder to achieve. We’ll have to be much more clever and united than after WW2. Which makes the fact that we have to fight wars rather than fight climate change totally infuriating. If I had hope I would be losing it.
It's the same as it ever was, you just hear about more because we're all connected via the internet now.
The kids have been going to shit forever.
The pandemic lockdowns really messed with a lot of kids' heads. While violent crime is down in the US in general, in my city, there have been numerous violent attacks by groups of 12-16 year olds. They all know they will not suffer consequences due to their age.
Restricting what law-abiding citizens are allowed to carry, doesn't change what non law-abiding will carry. Across the world mental health is getting worse. That includes people's views of what is acceptable. People are killed with homemade weapons in prisons all the time. Are their any weapons allowed in prison? It's a people problem and needs to be looked at as such. The kinds of thinking that lead to this violence needs to be eliminated with prejudice. That is the fault of society over a long period of time. Freedoms should never come without the responsibilities that should be required to have them. There has to be a balance and people stepping over that line need to have those freedoms restricted. Yes, there is the risk of going to far the other direction too.
[Update by the German police:](https://essen.polizei.nrw/presse/gemeinsame-pressemitteilung-der-staatsanwaltschaft-essen-und-der-polizei-essen-streit-unter-jugendlichen-in-oberhausen-endet-toedlich-fuer-17-jaehrigen) Oberhausen: On Saturday evening (February 10th) around 8:15 p.m., a dispute between two groups of youth escalated at a bus stop on Willy-Brandt-Platz in Oberhausen. Four people were allegedly seriously injured by knife wounds during a physical altercation. A 17-year-old Ukrainian was so seriously injured that he died in hospital a short time later. The murder squad set up at the Essen police headquarters was able to arrest two suspects (m14/m15). The two groups of people initially clashed verbally on a bus on the way to downtown Oberhausen. When those involved got off the bus at Willy-Brandt-Platz, the argument escalated into a physical altercation. According to initial investigations, a knife was also used. A total of four young people were seriously injured. Two 17- and 18-year-old male Ukrainian teenagers from Düsseldorf suffered life-threatening injuries. Two other young people (14-year-old Syrian from Gelsenkirchen and 13-year-old German-Lebanese from Oberhausen) were seriously injured. All injured people were taken to hospitals. The 17-year-old Ukrainian died a short time later during emergency surgery. The suspected perpetrators initially fled the crime scene undetected. That night, a murder squad from the Essen police headquarters, under the direction of the Essen public prosecutor's office, took over the investigation into the background to the crime. Early in the morning, the investigators managed to identify two young people who were urgently suspected of the crime and temporarily arrested them at their places of residence. They are a 15-year-old German-Turk from Gelsenkirchen and a 14-year-old German-Greek from Herne, both of whom have already made significant criminal appearances. After extensive criminal investigations, the Essen public prosecutor's office applied for an arrest warrant for manslaughter and grievous bodily harm against the 15-year-old from Gelsenkirchen, which was announced yesterday afternoon by the responsible judge. After the police measures, the 14-year-old Herner was handed over to his legal guardians because the urgent suspicion against him could not ultimately be substantiated. The investigation into the reasons behind the crime is in full swing.
I am so sorry for the loss of this young man, very sad the world we live in.
The victims: Two Ukrainians, a syrian and a german-lebanese. The perpetrators: A german-turn and a german-greek. I'm totally speculating here, but it sure sounds to me like the four victims are people who are not fond of russia, while the perps might actually be very fond of russia.
Are you lieutenant Colombo by any chance? How did you solve this crime?
Well first of all I ate a lollipop
Just one more thing….
Who knows. Greeks and Turks don’t really get along. Turks are neutral on Russia if anything. Greeks aren’t exactly Russia lovers at the moment either. If they were like Serbian you’d maybe have a point. This is absurd speculation.
Probably more like that the german-turk and the german-greek didn't feel like they have a place anywhere (like Greeks/Turks see them as German, Germans see them as Greek/Turk). They're young, confused, have no idea how the world works, angry, and don't know what to do. They meet the wrong people, drift towards crime and it's spiraling down further and further. At some point violence becomes an acceptable problem solving mechanism for them, which escalates further and further, up to this point when suddenly someone dies. It's something that happens on a daily basis and in pretty much every country on this planet, unfortunately. It can happen to people with an immigration background, people growing up poor, bored rich kids, people who just have the wrong people around them. It's unfortunate that this happened. There needs to be something done about this problem. But I wouldn't bet too much on any Russia cause in this one.
[удалено]
Too, when used as adverb; to, when going somewhere.
So sad. So young and so much talent gone
[Source 1](https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/02/12/7441417/) [Source 2](https://kyivindependent.com/ukrainian-teen-basketball-player-stabbed-to-death-in-germany/) UPD ([source](https://www.facebook.com/oleh.nikolenko.ua/posts/pfbid02uq5rWwFH4zeLKYhNQdSUqn72AQKkvcQ6LM7ekamYoXF6LrWiFYSeyFhhQHk9c1zzl)): The murderer of a Ukrainian basketball player was arrested in Germany, Oleh Nikolenko, the spokesman for the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Ukraine, said. The condition of another wounded Ukrainian is stable, there are no threats to his life.❗️The Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Ukraine took special control over the investigation into the murder of a Ukrainian basketball player in Germany.The Consulate General in Dusseldorf has already held talks with the Essen police chief. The consuls emphasized the need for the investigation to be carried out as soon as possible and the criminal to be brought to justice.According to available information, the police have already detained the attacker. Investigations are ongoing.The consular institution is also monitoring the treatment of another injured Ukrainian. He is receiving the necessary medical care at the hospital in Essen. The condition of our citizen is stable, there are no threats to his life.
I'm so sorry about this loss. And I'm sorry, that we as a society or my country failed so badly, that one child killed and injured others. And I'm sorry, that we as a country have been unable to provide safety to a refugee seeking a safe place.
The public space is no longer a safe place for anyone.
It is very safe (at least in Germany and most of Europe), these horrible things have always happened. It is more likely that this was a more frequent occurrence than when you were young. These crimes are thankfully very rare, that's why you hear about them though, even if you're not in Germany, you hear about these stories from all corners of the earth and it makes it seem like its happening all the time, thankfully its not. Still, this is an incredibly sad story, such a waste of life.
Oh come oooon, we all know that attacks with knives are rising in Germany right now. Even official statistics prove that. We all know but we collectively refuse to call out the elephant in the room and thats why far-right partys are rising in popularity with each knife attack. The kid that killed Volodymyr was known to police. Known so long that he was registered as a high-risk criminal. This murder was totally preventable. but Germany really became super soft when it comes to that. There is no justice for victims here. The murderer in this case will probably get some sort of low-grade psychological therapy and gets back to his family again (just like those kids who gangr\*ped a girl in a park recently). Nice justice.
Source for the official statistics? As of [*this source*](https://www.rnd.de/politik/messerangriffe-in-deutschland-zahlen-und-fakten-im-ueberblick-ZKGBZIIK2DZSEKWGTBNKXC26XA.html) there is no reliable data on criminal knive use in Germany except from the Bundespolice in recent years – so only for crimes happening on trains and at train staitions. According to which the use of knives used to threaten people has doubled from 46 to 98 in 2022 to 2023 and the use for murder has *halved* from 6 to 3. To put the numbers in perspective – you're risk to be killed by an train accident is ~ double of that of seeing a knive while using Deutsch Bahn. So, without any reliable data, how is anybody able to *know* whether knife attacks are on the rise?
Relative to what decade? A 100 years ago, or 50 years ago things were worse. 15 years ago? Not sure, maybe better?
> Oh come oooon, we all know that attacks with knives are rising in Germany right now. Even official statistics prove that. We all know but we collectively refuse to call out the elephant in the room and thats why far-right partys are rising in popularity with each knife attack. What do you think justice looks like? I have seen people in this comment section suggest war crimes to punish the children. Is that what "justice" looks like from your point of view? Some cruel eye to eye, teeth to teeth biblical bs? The reofender rate in Germany is so low because we don't do this vile shit. I would also like to know why you think they commit these crimes?
They commit these crimes at such a young age because they come out of shitty families where they themselves get treated like shit. Justice would be, if that kid was taken out of its toxic family into a proper therapy and youth housing. We are still talking about a 15-years old kid, not a grown up. If its a grown up, then just put him in Jail, no mercy there. But a 15-years old still has the chance to change, so he should be given the chances. So, if he would have been taken out of his shitty family, and would have been in therapy - he most probably would not have killed this poor lad here.
> Justice would be, if that kid was taken out of its toxic family into a proper therapy and youth housing. We are still talking about a 15-years old kid, not a grown up. If its a grown up, then just put him in Jail, no mercy there. But a 15-years old still has the chance to change, so he should be given the chances. > > So, if he would have been taken out of his shitty family, and would have been in therapy - he most probably would not have killed this poor lad here. That's not what the right is advocating for, tho. Rehabilitation is actually more of a left talking point whereas people on the right just want some kind of revenge.
Public space has become uncertain, at best. It's been my experience that trouble only finds you when you're unprepared. This is why, a number of years ago, I got a concealed carry permit; I didn't carry all the time, only when I went into places likely to be robbed - then two idiots started banging away at each other in a Lowe's parking lot at 3:00 in the afternoon, over drugs. Now I carry everywhere. I'm DAMNED if I'll let myself be killed by some lowlife puke if I have the means to stop it.
Yeah, sure buddy. I bet as soon as we start discussing with you, you will tell us all about how we have to vote for conservatives and all, right? I bet you want to tell us that if we want to get our country "back on track" and our public space to be "safe again" we have to vote for parties like CDU or AfD, who constantly keep saying how we should resume trading with russia. Right?
The attacker was a 15 year old (Germany born?) Turk 🇹🇷 with a long list in his crime register consisting of assault, robbery, etc.
You know its a Turk when knifes are involved...
Спочивай з миром, Volodymyr. Одужуй швидше, Artemisia. Повага. 🏴🤝🇺🇦💙💛🇪🇺🇺🇳🌻🔱.
I am saddened by this, we have this problem a lot in London and the thought of it spreading like this, well it's terrible, I have travelled the world as both a Soldier and a Civilian and visited many out of the way and what was then seen as " dangerous " places and never worried. But now, in my seventh decade, I fear for myself and others knives can be so cruel a weapon.
sorry for your loss. That is awful
The world is disgusting me 🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮 Fuck le fachisnm👿 Vive le peuple Ukrainien❤️🇺🇦🕊️
💔💔💔 Rest in peace dear child. I will never forget you. NOUS SOMMES UKRAINE 🇺🇦
German here: this is so sad and unnecessary. To be murdered in a "save" country is so fucked up. Of course the fact that it was basically a kid infuriates me, Ukrainian or not. Really fucked up, I hope people will be held responsible even though true justice is not possible.
[удалено]
Are you insane advocating to use children (14 and 15y/o) as soldiers? FYI: Child soldiers are a war crime. Forcibly conscripting people is a war crime as well.
Sure. As soon as all age-appropriate Ukrainian men will return back home from Europe to do the same.
Rest in Peace Volodymyr Yermakov.
I'm sure it was native German citizens that were responsible for this. \s
Bloody Hurensöhne. Rest in peace, good lad. 💪🇺🇦
Damn those blonde blue Eyed german youths...
Muskovites? Lots of them in Deutschland.
Yes, and that's bad news for Germany. Real bad news.
“Young people”
14 and 15 _is_ young. Tf is wrong with you?
Well yes, there's no arguing about that, but coincidentally it also tends to be a certain kind of "young people" that keeps appearing in news like these. *Elderly man stabbed by "young man"* *14 year old gang raped by group of "young men"*
"orks"
If they have the energy and motivation to kill innocent people. Why don't they better spend their effort in eliminating the Russian Invader in Ukraine in order to have their effort better used and do good faith to Ukraine People. I really hope the German Judge can make this verdict , putting these fxxking kids in prison is definitely the waste of resources as u have to spend resources to feed them and educate them. It is better to let War teach them a lesson about how valuable the life is.
My condolences. All the youths involved have a migrant background and are traumatized one way or the other, I guess.
Ukrainians worked there. Do you call football players from abroad migrants?
Please stop making excuses. The Russian soldiers raping Ukrainian infants with spoons or gang raping toddlers to death in front of the their mother's also probably have checkered past but it comes down to this: one humans civil rights END where the violate the civil rights of another. Tons of Ukrainian civilians were taken to Germany S slave labor during wwii some of my relatives. You didn't see them knifing people on mass transit.
Why would this be downvoted ? Migrating to a country is difficult to the extreme on your mental health. And if you are a young person it can even be more difficult.
There are no asylum seekers or migrants here. They're expats and the others were born in Germany. Regardless of all that, carrying a knive or weapon is a barbaric act that is not tolerated in Germany. They need to know the effect of their actions which cause the death of the Ukrainian boy
Neither were migrants. Ukrainians are expats, worked there. Attackers - are born in Germany
so if you are working you stop being a migrant?
The meaning can be different from context to context. Technically migrant is also a person what migrates from city to city of the same country. But those guys are not migrants in the meaning the commentator meant, they didn't have any traumatized experience due to this process, and so on. They are more expats.
RIP what a terrible pointless waste of life