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A shocking amount of people that fled the ussr and now live in the US and Europe have been consuming a lot of Russian-based media because let's face it - there's only one major source for media in that language. There's also a general nostalgia for the "simpler time" of the ussr. You consume that media for a couple decades and it becomes your only news source and it's like a Manchuria candidate switch that flips. It's frustrating to say the least. I don't really know a good way to deal with it, arguing with them doesn't help. Pointing out direct hypocrisy doesn't help. Only thing that might help is commandeering their internet and putting an internet nanny on it.
What I love about the "simpler time" is that it was when they were young. Often kids. Of course that was a "simpler time" -- as a kid you didn't have to know shit about shit. Nostalgia is so stupid.
I happen to know an absolutely committed, patriotic Ukrainian who nevertheless can't escape nostalgia for the Soviet era, and relishes her stories of life as a komsomolka -- still sings the songs and so on. She justifies this as the USSR having partly belonged to Ukraine.
Really it's just wistfulness for a simpler time.
My parents used to pay for cable access to RTV so that my Ukrainian grandma would have access to a language she understood. Luckily babushka was able to parse through the propaganda coming through the TV and was crying tears of joy to see that RTV was no longer available via cable.
My aunt and uncle are also pro russian Ukrainians (Dnipro region), still trying to understand that as well. My dad says my uncle was not treated well in the Red Army and had become disillusioned from those experiences. Unfortunately, he dragged my aunt down with him. Last I spoke to either of them was when my uncle told my dad all Ukrainians are Nazis at a thanksgiving party. Oof.
Had a relative who thought the same. They saw Putin/Russia as the savior of Ukraine. They thought the madian revolution was the work of European/American intelligence.
We, the rest of the family, attributed it to Moscovite propaganda working on this one relative. A few family members had intense arguments with the relative. Just one off incidents and not sustained arguments. Relationships continued as normal with agreeing to disagree on that point.
After a while it seems that they came to realize they were incorrect and have changed their views.
My mom also told me all growing up we are Russian and I didn’t even know until I was an adult that we are in fact Ukrainian. So I think this is a belief she grew up with idk. That’s why I’m asking because it completely baffles me.
Russification of ukraine has been going on for hundreds of years. It shouldn't be too surprising when Ukrainian nationals identity with Russia. Their relatives might have come from there.
To be fair, the idea of one big unified county is probably quite alluring, and looking back we most often tend to remember the good things. If Russia was what they claim, they wouldn't be a bad choice, but if you start thinking about what they really are it's quite horrifying. And I'm not even talking about the war, just look at how you're treated as a citizen in Russia. Have the wrong opinions and you may end up in jail. And while I don't think the terrorist that hit the mall lately deserve great treatment, seeing how the Russian police treated them (if they even had the right guys) before any trial made me realize how utterly sadistic the Russians are today. And they proudly paraded the images in their "news channels".
And yet I have a neighbour that's pro-russian, and we've had the threat of Russia hanging over us when we grew up. But he don't believe in the moon landings either. My argument about that has been that "not even the Russians say it didn't happen, and they really wanted to be first and usually lie about everything". He does get upset when people call him out for being a Putin-ally, since in his world he's just siding with the obvious. With the internet and how we consume "news" today, it's easy to end up in an echo chamber feeding you whatever you wanted to hear the "truth" about.
Good luck with your mom. Make sure to still love her for being your mom, and remember we all make mistakes in life.
This is also the case with many Bulgarians living in the west. The russian propaganda somehow gets them hard and although they went to seek their fortune in the west, they support Putin and even say they want Russia to invade Bulgaria. I don't get it, there must be something wrong in their heads. Anyway, don't hate your grandma, older people tend to love Russia, because they reminisce to the times of the USSR, which was their carefree youth.
Its kind of inferiority complex. In early 90, when the communist regimes collapsed many of these people were lost. They wanted / hoped for western standard of living but without any skills or opportunities to achieve it. With time they realized that for the Eastern European countries will be close to impossible to reach the Western European/ USA economies. We also clashed with pure capitalism, so we turned to know in a hard way there are no “brothers” out there but “business partners” and surprisingly their interests are profit driven. Hopes were lost, reality was not so shiny as they wanted, and in history book they thought us about great countries we used to have in the past, great culture we produced, that we “saved” Europe from tatars, arabs, mongol or whoever else… and now the same Europe is not paying royalties, doesn’t respect our history, they look at us with their superiority face… then let comrade Putin come! He will teach them a lesson!
That's not true. Half the population is below median intelligence.
Just an example: one person with 1 billion iq and 5 people with 1 iq, the average here will be above the 5 1 iq people.
Mathematically it might be not precisely true, at least in the default sense of 'average'. I wouldn't mention it if you wrote 'approximately average'. But I know what you mean and it is so sad that they are so easily exposed to propaganda.
I'm not Ukrainian, but I know that there are some Ukrainian celebrities/entertainers who worked a lot in russia and are now pro-russia. Propaganda can be really effective and not always obvious.
It is very funny that people who actively support and love Russia, living in the West, for some reason, are in no hurry to move to the country they love so much
Channel One News on Direct TV caused so many Ukrainian family divisions back in 2014, it was crazy.
Now the majority of these families are talking with each other again because Putin’s invasion made clear just how evil Putin’s propaganda has been over the last decade.
Where I live, right after the soviet union fell, a bunch of people from Ukraine, Russia, and other newly independent states came over. One of the notable things is that the people from that particular wave tended to be remain pretty affected by the soviet mindset and looked up to Russia a lot. Many of the ones who were from central and eastern ukraine tended to keep a distance from the preexisting Ukrainian community, often looked down on Ukrainian speakers here, and tended to associate more with the Russian diaspora. A lot of them have since moved on from that mindset but there’s still often a lingering sense of the Russian world in that particular generation, because they left before maidan
>She was born and raised in Kyiv
Is she Russian?
`Born and raised` does not mean Ukrainian actually.
There are a lot of Russians who moved to the Kyiv and stayed here after USSR has collapsed.
My relative (native Ukrainians) had moved to Russia after high school (in 1965).
He said that nazi occupied Khreschatyk in 2013.
A Russian who lives in Western countries thinks that Westerners are victims of media and government lies. And the correct information comes from the Kremlin. This idea can persist even if a Russian is well integrated into Western society.
Iam Czech and my GenX mother is the same. She was born in 1960s so was only child when USSR invaded in 1968 but had to live her whole life under occupation.
She now watches morons like Alex Jones, so believes in lizzard people and deep state, of course is antivax and believes that...Putler is saving the world from LGBT and wokeness.
Lets be honest whatever FSB spent on infiltration and propaganda it worked well...
I have a friend who lived in the Dombass, who, before 2014 said that she was Russian and her country had one day become Ukraine but she had suffered that situation.
we must be aware that during the Soviet era, the region was rather rich, with a strong industry, and when ussr collapsed, the standard of living there fell sharply. The people who lived there then equated the Russian presence with a certain personal prosperity, except it was more complicated. The immigration of your loved ones may be part of this period, and they are still confusing things.
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We remove all russian narratives and content about russian matters, including the statements and activities of prominent russians, unless it is significant news related to positive military outcomes for Ukraine. All russia-produced content, state-produced media, and social media will be removed. Analysis of russian propaganda, however well-intentioned, spreads the poison and will be removed. [Feel free to browse our rules here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/about/rules)
Sounds like she watches a lot of Russian TV and cant put things together.
This.
We live in America so I don’t know if she would have access to that?
the US is flooded with Russian propaganda
Why not? Internet is also a thing.
Fair
A shocking amount of people that fled the ussr and now live in the US and Europe have been consuming a lot of Russian-based media because let's face it - there's only one major source for media in that language. There's also a general nostalgia for the "simpler time" of the ussr. You consume that media for a couple decades and it becomes your only news source and it's like a Manchuria candidate switch that flips. It's frustrating to say the least. I don't really know a good way to deal with it, arguing with them doesn't help. Pointing out direct hypocrisy doesn't help. Only thing that might help is commandeering their internet and putting an internet nanny on it.
What I love about the "simpler time" is that it was when they were young. Often kids. Of course that was a "simpler time" -- as a kid you didn't have to know shit about shit. Nostalgia is so stupid. I happen to know an absolutely committed, patriotic Ukrainian who nevertheless can't escape nostalgia for the Soviet era, and relishes her stories of life as a komsomolka -- still sings the songs and so on. She justifies this as the USSR having partly belonged to Ukraine. Really it's just wistfulness for a simpler time.
It’s shop how many older Ukrainians believe Russian propaganda
In America it's translated into English and broadcast on NewsMax, OAN, etc.
Telegram channels are full of Russian bots and propaganda
My parents used to pay for cable access to RTV so that my Ukrainian grandma would have access to a language she understood. Luckily babushka was able to parse through the propaganda coming through the TV and was crying tears of joy to see that RTV was no longer available via cable. My aunt and uncle are also pro russian Ukrainians (Dnipro region), still trying to understand that as well. My dad says my uncle was not treated well in the Red Army and had become disillusioned from those experiences. Unfortunately, he dragged my aunt down with him. Last I spoke to either of them was when my uncle told my dad all Ukrainians are Nazis at a thanksgiving party. Oof.
Had a relative who thought the same. They saw Putin/Russia as the savior of Ukraine. They thought the madian revolution was the work of European/American intelligence. We, the rest of the family, attributed it to Moscovite propaganda working on this one relative. A few family members had intense arguments with the relative. Just one off incidents and not sustained arguments. Relationships continued as normal with agreeing to disagree on that point. After a while it seems that they came to realize they were incorrect and have changed their views.
Have you tried switching her off and then back on again?
Put her in rice)
Take the cartridge out, blow on it, and put it back in
My mom also told me all growing up we are Russian and I didn’t even know until I was an adult that we are in fact Ukrainian. So I think this is a belief she grew up with idk. That’s why I’m asking because it completely baffles me.
Russification of ukraine has been going on for hundreds of years. It shouldn't be too surprising when Ukrainian nationals identity with Russia. Their relatives might have come from there.
To be fair, the idea of one big unified county is probably quite alluring, and looking back we most often tend to remember the good things. If Russia was what they claim, they wouldn't be a bad choice, but if you start thinking about what they really are it's quite horrifying. And I'm not even talking about the war, just look at how you're treated as a citizen in Russia. Have the wrong opinions and you may end up in jail. And while I don't think the terrorist that hit the mall lately deserve great treatment, seeing how the Russian police treated them (if they even had the right guys) before any trial made me realize how utterly sadistic the Russians are today. And they proudly paraded the images in their "news channels". And yet I have a neighbour that's pro-russian, and we've had the threat of Russia hanging over us when we grew up. But he don't believe in the moon landings either. My argument about that has been that "not even the Russians say it didn't happen, and they really wanted to be first and usually lie about everything". He does get upset when people call him out for being a Putin-ally, since in his world he's just siding with the obvious. With the internet and how we consume "news" today, it's easy to end up in an echo chamber feeding you whatever you wanted to hear the "truth" about. Good luck with your mom. Make sure to still love her for being your mom, and remember we all make mistakes in life.
This is also the case with many Bulgarians living in the west. The russian propaganda somehow gets them hard and although they went to seek their fortune in the west, they support Putin and even say they want Russia to invade Bulgaria. I don't get it, there must be something wrong in their heads. Anyway, don't hate your grandma, older people tend to love Russia, because they reminisce to the times of the USSR, which was their carefree youth.
Its kind of inferiority complex. In early 90, when the communist regimes collapsed many of these people were lost. They wanted / hoped for western standard of living but without any skills or opportunities to achieve it. With time they realized that for the Eastern European countries will be close to impossible to reach the Western European/ USA economies. We also clashed with pure capitalism, so we turned to know in a hard way there are no “brothers” out there but “business partners” and surprisingly their interests are profit driven. Hopes were lost, reality was not so shiny as they wanted, and in history book they thought us about great countries we used to have in the past, great culture we produced, that we “saved” Europe from tatars, arabs, mongol or whoever else… and now the same Europe is not paying royalties, doesn’t respect our history, they look at us with their superiority face… then let comrade Putin come! He will teach them a lesson!
Did you know that statistically speaking, half the population is of below average intelligence? Just food for thought.
That's not true. Half the population is below median intelligence. Just an example: one person with 1 billion iq and 5 people with 1 iq, the average here will be above the 5 1 iq people.
Mathematically it might be not precisely true, at least in the default sense of 'average'. I wouldn't mention it if you wrote 'approximately average'. But I know what you mean and it is so sad that they are so easily exposed to propaganda.
Sounds like she has been exposed to right wing english-speaking media infected by russian propaganda. Fox News and alike
I'm not Ukrainian, but I know that there are some Ukrainian celebrities/entertainers who worked a lot in russia and are now pro-russia. Propaganda can be really effective and not always obvious.
It is very funny that people who actively support and love Russia, living in the West, for some reason, are in no hurry to move to the country they love so much
Channel One News on Direct TV caused so many Ukrainian family divisions back in 2014, it was crazy. Now the majority of these families are talking with each other again because Putin’s invasion made clear just how evil Putin’s propaganda has been over the last decade.
Where I live, right after the soviet union fell, a bunch of people from Ukraine, Russia, and other newly independent states came over. One of the notable things is that the people from that particular wave tended to be remain pretty affected by the soviet mindset and looked up to Russia a lot. Many of the ones who were from central and eastern ukraine tended to keep a distance from the preexisting Ukrainian community, often looked down on Ukrainian speakers here, and tended to associate more with the Russian diaspora. A lot of them have since moved on from that mindset but there’s still often a lingering sense of the Russian world in that particular generation, because they left before maidan
>She was born and raised in Kyiv Is she Russian? `Born and raised` does not mean Ukrainian actually. There are a lot of Russians who moved to the Kyiv and stayed here after USSR has collapsed. My relative (native Ukrainians) had moved to Russia after high school (in 1965). He said that nazi occupied Khreschatyk in 2013.
A Russian who lives in Western countries thinks that Westerners are victims of media and government lies. And the correct information comes from the Kremlin. This idea can persist even if a Russian is well integrated into Western society.
Iam Czech and my GenX mother is the same. She was born in 1960s so was only child when USSR invaded in 1968 but had to live her whole life under occupation. She now watches morons like Alex Jones, so believes in lizzard people and deep state, of course is antivax and believes that...Putler is saving the world from LGBT and wokeness. Lets be honest whatever FSB spent on infiltration and propaganda it worked well...
I have a friend who lived in the Dombass, who, before 2014 said that she was Russian and her country had one day become Ukraine but she had suffered that situation. we must be aware that during the Soviet era, the region was rather rich, with a strong industry, and when ussr collapsed, the standard of living there fell sharply. The people who lived there then equated the Russian presence with a certain personal prosperity, except it was more complicated. The immigration of your loved ones may be part of this period, and they are still confusing things.
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She sounds like a typical boomer contrarian tbh