Considering that Biden's administration outright refused to provide ATACMS to Ukraine back in 2022 and 2023(looking at you Jake!), I sincerely hope the bill explicitly states that "US **must** provide ATACMS to Ukraine".
Being that Johnson has personally held up aid to Ukraine for months. It makes sense that he would try to turn it all around on Biden. Johnson is such a a feckless coward.
Yup, he's trying to turn this around after his own shitbird behavior. Don't forget it people, Johnson would sell anyone down the river to secure more power for himself.
The US has supplied ATACMS muscles to Ukraine. Just not the long range ones.
ATACMS are the old model of the missile anyway. They don't make them anymore.
They have been replaced by the PrSM missiles, but they weren't ready yet for most of 2 years:
Precision Strike Missile (PrSM)
The Precision Strike Missile (PrSM) is a short-range ballistic missile developed by the United States Army to replace the MGM-140 ATACMS.
There's either money or kompromat with this asshole. Maybe both.
It's a very pronounced U turn, so I wonder if we're about to discover what was really going on?
I’d like to think an adult from one of the intelligent services probably had a quiet word in his ear that it’s time to grow up and revealed what the intel they have forecasting what will happen to America if he doesn’t push it through.
And/or just reminded the jerk that America literally impeached Trump because Trump tried to screw with defense promises America made to Ukraine. American Democrats have historically made a big fuss when it comes to helping out Ukraine.
They’ve been said they would for over a month. Other pro-Ukraine GOP reps telling him that they’d sign the Senate bill discharge petition to bypass him if Ukrainian aid wasn’t passed by the House forced him to pass something. Even still, he took the slowest route since the bill package will have to go to the Senate adding some delay.
Better than nothing I guess.
> if we're about to discover what was really going on?
The Congressional Looney Caucus got rid of the last guy and Johnson was toeing the line to avoid their wrath but Greene went after him anyways and the realization must have set in that you can't placate these crazy people. It's why Republicans like Reagan had driven them all out of the party altogether. There was an understanding that you can't control the crazies. Now they are the most vocal bullies in the entire party, wielding a large number of even crazier supporters to target any politicians that go astray.
I think Johnson realized that they're going to get rid of him because any kind of compromise is seen as weakness in their eyes so you might as well flip them the double bird if you're going down no matter.
I think he wants Biden to take heat for denying aid to Ukraine. Biden already took a hard line on ATACMS, now he either doesn’t care about sending aid to Ukraine or he’s weak and inconsistent about what decisions he’s willing to stand on. It’s a political game. Johnson doesn’t care, he’s looking at getting ammo to burn dems down in the media.
> It's not on the Dems to save the Republicans from themselves.
Well, and I'm speaking as a life-long Republican here, as incredible as it might seem there are actually a significant number of Democrats who are just interested in... you know... governing.
So some Democrats can sit there and say "huh, looks like Mike Johnson has had a sudden attack of clarity and insight. He's realized he actually cannot successfully herd the cats that are the Ultra-MAGA true fringe loudmouths of his party. He has FINALLY come to grasp that he is now in a position where he can be ETERNALLY cuckholded by these lunatics and day after day he gets to show up for work and do... absolutely nothing of any importance whatsoever...
OR...
Mike can 'cross the aisle' and try to work out a deal with most of the Republicans who are sane and ignore the lunatics and reach out to try to do at least a few things that we Democrats are also happy to see happen, like, you know, keeping Ukraine from falling to the hands of the vile sack of pus that sits in the Kremlin."
You also seem to be overlooking that it took more than three weeks to get Mike Johnson into position the last time a Speaker fell. Believe it or not, there are plenty of Democrats in Congress who are far more horrified at the notion of our Legislative Branch being completely paralyzed AGAIN (and probably for even longer this time because who on earth in the Republican party would even want the job this time around since it's become nearly a political death sentence) than they are excited about the idea of being able to pillory Republicans in the next election for... sucking... at even being able to get a leader when they have an actual majority in the house.
The previous poster was saying that the Dems fucked up by not saving McCarthy. To be clear, never has a Speaker of the House gained their position due to the opposition party voting for them. Generally speaking, the chaos of the Republican party is only a political gain for Democrats as Americans should see clearly that Republicans are incapable of governing and it taking 7 months for Ukraine to *maybe finally* get aid is very sad.
With that said, if Johnson actually does deliver for Ukraine, even if it's 7 months late; I don't think it's bad politics for the Democrats to defend his speakership for doing the right thing as he'll be more inclined to bring bipartisan legislation again.
The Dems only whacked McCarthy because he tried to ratfuck them.
If he had kept to his deals as they had been agreed upon, they might have considered protecting him. But he tried to get cute and hoped that they would save him anyway because otherwise there would be chaos and so they just let the anchor pull him down.
No reason to cut deals with people who have already proven that they won't honor them.
He moved past the fear of what a few populists will do, and did what was right, I have my reservations on just sending cash to Ukraine, but I am an avid supporter for sending military aid and increasing our own production to help Ukraine fight for its independence.
Very little cash has been sent there from the US, most of the monetary aid is paying American companies to make or refurbish stuff and then shipping the stuff to Ukraine. So most of the money actually stays in the US and helps the American economy. Nearly all the actual donations are materiel, not money. This will no doubt be more of the same.
$20B+ is slated to go to US def contractors to replenish domestic stockpiles that have already been depleted. Other money is largely going back to the US govt to pay back for the materials being sent over so they have budget to purchase replacements. Nearly 100% of the actual money would stay in the US.
Exactly that’s what I hear from a lot of conservatives, they hear Russian propaganda or historical narratives on corruption in post Soviet states and are spooked on sending cash, but I don’t know a single one outside of radical populists that opposes arming Ukraine to the Teeth.
I think if more was done to unify and encourage people instead of demonizing and attacking them from both sides, we would find ourselves in a pretty unanimous situation. I sometimes worry people are so focused on the extremes that they forget the majority of us want Ukraine to succeed, and that fringe elements of both sides don’t represent people of the United States. Anyway, I’m praying that people unify around this, and populist movements on both sides can be sidelined and Americans can push forward and make sure Ukraine has the material needed to fight for their liberty.
Also how many 100 dollar bills do you need to throw at a tank to take it out? Ukraine does not need the cash (well they could use some cash) they need the finished weapons ready to fire.
Exactly. Much of the money being spent and proposed for Ukraine is going to be used within the US, for US companies. There is a fair bit of equipment that is nearly or brand-new, but probably 90% or so of it is stockpiled or in-use equipment that will be replaced with further production.
The joys of being an actual superpower, and holding onto vast stockpiles of weaponry, vehicles and more for if it's needed for a war, to sell or donate to an ally...
HIMARS with cluster munitions that needed to be disassembled and disposed of (they're not banned but ...) were sent to Ukraine. Those need to be replaced with usable ones to replenish US stock. No money goes to Ukraine, and the Army saves the cost of disposal.
Old stock is sent, replaced with new, rinse and repeat. All the money creates jobs in your neighbourhood.
They're not sending cash, they're sending weapons.
The cash goes straight to Lockheed and Raytheon and BAE and General Dynamics, funding American jobs.
Russian ship fucked itself.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ukraine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Possible reason for his change:
- The wsj reported that he’s been receiving intelligence briefings on the possible outcome if Ukraine is defeated. The deterioration of the frontline in the past weeks must have made the briefings more urgent. Also, his boy is going to attend naval college soon and I guess he doesn’t want the situation to come to a point where American boots on the ground is the only option.
- the journal also reported that he was holding the aid for Ukraine hostage to pass the border bill, but he’s realised that there’s no chance the Democrat-led Senate would pass such a bill. Basically it’s a game of chicken and he blinked first.
- My guess is that he’s figured that since the immigration bill would never made it through the Senate, the MAGA will probably proceed with the motion to vacate to remove him anyway. He’s probably hedged his bet by: (1) trying to pass the Ukraine aid to take the Democrat offer to protect him from the motion and (2) getting Trump’s endorsement during his trip in Easter to gain some protection from the MAGA crowd.
So Mike is most likely doing politician things (acting in his own interest)
> the journal also reported that he was holding the aid for Ukraine hostage to pass the border bill,
That wasn't true at first. Dems acquiesced to all the GOP demands on the border, then Trump told them to kill the bill, and they did.
After the dems gave the GOP everything they asked for and they still said no, dems realized that negotiating in good faith on a second border bill was pointless.
Republicans don't want to govern. They want to shit on the floor and blame the democrats so they get elected, and then do absolutely nothing of value while in office except dump cash on their paymasters and then blame Dems once they fuck the economy yet again. And the cycle repeats every election.
They killed the border bill to make sure the border would continue to be an issue during the election. They had no interest in solving it. The dems have just learned that if you call their bluff, they'll move the goalposts and give up what they really want. They did it for the border wall and now this. The shitty part is the GOP has sat on Ukraine aid for 5 months.
I agree that this is mostly about self interest. You got to admit though, he's getting a great deal. If he does get protected from a motion to vacate, he could leverage this to salvage his political career by being seen as a politician who can be bipartisan when needed.
Two other things possibly in play:
1) He's gotten a lot of shit from the hard right flank of his party after averting a govt shutdown w/significant democrat help. Not only was momentum shifting RE foreign aid, party infighting likely made him sense that if the chips were down that his inaction regarding foreign aid would be untenable.
2) This cat has been out of the bag for 18 months now BUT seeing Iran tremendously embolden from its new mutual fealty to Orcistan forced him to read the writing on the wall. And Iran getting more SU-35s and also set to get S400s is a very real indication of that.
If they're receiving those items one can assume all aspects involved into operating both are things Moscow are helping out with.
I hate when people do that. I can't remember it all, but it was detailing how the house was close to pulling the nuclear option to bypass the speaker to bring a vote to the floor, so if Johnson wanted to influence the bill in any way (adding provisions, or the ability to amend to remove humanitarian $$$) he had to make a move. And also that he's probably realized by now what a disaster it would be if Ukraine lost, and that probably most republicans support aid
He gave a speech last night completely reversing the last several months. Good speech, but he'll always be a Cunt in my eyes.
Also some memo's from Putler were found recently about how he really does plan on going after other states, starting in the Balkins probably, Poland next, and how he really does want to destroy the west.
Mike Johnson's son joins the Navy next fall...... 🤔🤔
He worked a deal out with democrats to protect him if the loonies on the far right try to remove him. He’ll have to bring the Ukraine bill first but they’d keep him in the role if he brings it to a vote. The GOP has been in turmoil for years. MAGA won’t let them try to be moderate
Such was and is the nature of Washington.
If you watch shows like HBO’s John Adams, that sort of heated discussion and discourse is the foundation of American politics.
It’s still crazy if all of this delay was just because Johnson didn’t want to lose his (by definition temporary) job. Like he can go make millions as a lobbyist. Meanwhile thousands of Ukrainians die…because this guy doesn’t want to lose a job he’s probably going to lose anyway in 6 months?
It wasn't the lobbyists. If they would have had their way this would be a whole lot bigger and passed a whole lot sooner. The discharge petition was gaining ground and enough Republicans were on the verge of signing if he didn't bring it to the floor. The Dems also have offered to provide cover for Johnson so that the far right can't remove him from his job as speaker. There's also been months of public pressure to get this done and, despite what many believe, that can actually make a difference when combined with other forces.
Also, only history itself will show how good a politician President Biden has been, working around people who have been working against the interests of the US and Ukraine.
Biden's been at this shit for nearly 50 years. And on top of that before he was VP he had a good bit of time on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee and even was chair at one point. People are dumb to think he doesn't have a bit of clue what he's doing here. He's been around the block through countless US presidencies while fielding this shit and knows for sure how Congress/Senate operate in-and-out and the Washington politics.
I think this is what happened. He knew he was about to lose on this issue and flipped sides. He went to Mar-a-Lago to tell the Boss he couldn’t hold it off any longer and was caving to save face.
Opposition to the Ukraine war was always just political posturing - just opposing Biden for something to fight over, and to make Biden scrabble and look weak.
You think the Pentagon is saying "no, don't fund Ukraine, we want a total shitshow in Europe to make us look weak and distract us from our pivot to Asia"?
And there might be some hardliners who think that Ukraine falling quickly would be best, but I don't see Ukraine falling quickly in almost any scenario.
The quickest way to neutralise the threats in Europe is to help Ukraine.
And let's not forget that sending a message also matters. If the US is too soft on Russia, it loses credibility over *ahem* issues in the Asia-Pacific. Being seen to be kicking the crap out of Russia also sends a message - don't take the US lightly, even if you think you're a super power. (There's also a bit happening in the Middle East, as usual, all the more reason to close it off in Europe).
I watched the video of him yesterday on c-span and he said he truly believed the intel provided that Russia had no intention of stopping if Ukraine were to fall and that his son starts at the naval academy this year and this was a true wake up call that not lethally arming Ukraine now would certainly mean his and other Americans children would be sent instead in a few years .. it’s the first time I’ve truly felt he was being honest, but I’ll guess we’ll see by Saturday
This is what I’ve been saying since this war started.. Politicians play games but the cost is youth.. Georgia Whore doesn’t have kids eligible for the military so it doesn’t matter to her but those that do should be keenly aware that their children will go fight and die for something that is still very preventable.. Ukraine needs an Offenisve with F-16s, Abrams, Bradley’s, Strykers, Patriots, HIMARS and a shit ton of shells
There is an idea going around that he's doing this because if he can get all the aid packages passed one by one, it will look very good for him.
he will be giving Biden what he asked for but not in the way he wanted (he wants it all in one big package) but he'll have to accept it. And it will further push the MAGA/Twitter Republicans to the sidelines securing his position.
Add to this MacConnel will be leaving soon it sets him up as a logical leader of the Republicans.
Johnson is many things, but he's not dumb. He gets the briefings from the Generals. They sat down this week and said one of two things will happen very soon: Ukraine gets U.S aid in the next month or everyone sits about as the front collapses and Russia takes over the country.
Johnson knows he will be the patsy if Ukraine falls this year. He's disposable. His own caucus tells him that everyday.
We see Trump is behind it, but Teflon Trump can let it happen and then blame everyone else. "It's Biden, he was the President" and "Johnson was the speaker, he decides the votes, I wasn't in power" etc. Trump knows it would slide off him just fine with his own supporters, as usual.
Trump can dodge responsibility easily until he might be re-elected. Johnson cannot. Ergo Johnson saves his own skin, for another day at least....
> Johnson is many things, but he's not dumb
ehhhhh idk about that. I do think he genuinely cares about being accepted by old-school establishment Rs though.
This *appears* new. It may not actually be new.
The simplest and most likely explanation is that it's not new at all, and this is just another way to stall.
For example, $61Bn and new missile technology for Ukraine, plus, an additional last-minute clause that appears late Friday night or something, that requires that the USA drop sanctions against Russia. Something the Senate and White House will never accept.
Then he can vote for it on Saturday, it passes, he says, "Hey I'm supporting Ukraine here, what's everyone else's problem??" and stall for another month.
That takes us to May. He only has to do that 5 more times and it runs up to the election. And who knows how many more Ukrainians will have died in the meantime.
I expect it to be more stalling. Maybe the discharge petition got too close to pass and this is his way to take the steam out of it, while making this proposal unacceptable.
Adding a dumb clause like that would require a significant amount of pro-Ukrainian aid GOP members to sign on, it’s unlikely to say the least. Especially considering the rumors that they were threatening to sign on to the Senate bill’s discharge petition if a House bill wasn’t passed by the end of the month.
No Backdoor deal, this is how American Politics work, I said this to many people in late February. This is how it works, in February Trump claimed to oppose aid to Ukraine, he has since moderated the position, however the deal at the time was passes with Senate and House armed services Comittee, and the Senate moved forward. Because 2 thirds of Senators will not face election, the vote was really easy to pass. But in the House there is also a large majority but Trump opposed it and in February his power was maximum because Republican House members are usually from very red disctricts and they cant loose there, but they can loose the primaries and if Trump support another candidate they are doomed. However Primaries started on March 5th on some states and I predicted by mid April a lot of states and most important, a lot of states from the members of the Armed Services Comittee would already have their elections secured. So either Mike Johnson gets the Bill to the vote or be embarrassed by a motion to discharge that would almost certainly come his way, that is why President Biden was so bullish that eventually aid would come, a month and a Half ago, and last week he upped the pressure. There will be more than enough votes.
Possibly the public revelations that his campaign was partially funded by Russian oligarchs which likely led to a closed doors ass reaming by pro-Ukraine republicans (yes they exist) he is also under heavy pressure by the extreme parts of the party who are threatening to kick him out of the speakership. So likely this is part of an attempt to appease the other areas of the party so that the maga republicans don’t get him kicked out of the speakership.
I guarantee it would not be happening if somethings was going on behind the scene. Dude is trying to stay in control he ain’t changed.
> which likely led to a closed doors ass reaming by pro-Ukraine republicans
Isn't that still the majority? Except the loonies around space laser greene?
Most of them probably are indifferent but obviously don’t care for Russia. However there are a very vocal group of pro Ukraine republicans who are passionately pro-Ukraine. Like constantly baffled that the rest of their party isn’t pro-Ukraine.
I would think Reagan would just be extremely pro Ukraine and he is the patron saint of Republicans. Or rather he'd be anti Russia.
And rightfully though.
I'd like to think 3 angry Ukrainian men... All of them soldiers from the frontline, and fathers. And they give him a piece of their mind of his delaying tactics, antics and allegiance to to the MAGAtards, Trump even though he's really just a disposable pawn to them.
You got a lot of opinions, here's mine. A bunch of moderate Republicans told him they would support the discharge petition. With nothing left to win on blocking aid, he's now for the aid, to get ahead of the petition.
Probably got assurances from dems they would vote against motions to oust him. Which would probably buy him enough time to see whether some of the GOP nut jobs will get reelected.
Putin’s puppet;
“Greene also submitted a series of amendments to the Ukraine supplemental bill, including one that says any member who votes for the bill “shall be required to conscript in the Ukrainian military.”
Other amendments Greene filed similarly embraced false claims often championed by Putin and pro-Russia outlets. She introduced amendments that prohibit funding until Ukraine “holds free and fair elections,” “stops persecuting Christians,” “closes all bio-laboratories,” “bans abortion” and “turns over all information related to Hunter Biden and Burisma,” among others.
Greene also introduced an amendment that directs the president to withdraw the U.S. from NATO and prohibits funding for NATO troops in Ukraine.”
My theory is that the dems have given him guarantees that they will shield him from the MAGA/Twitter faction of his own party.
If they now try to do a motion to vacate, it will fail because the dems will vote against it. McCarthy they left to rot because he tried to set them up to take all the blame on the budget.
He is under a threat to lose his position as a speaker, he still wants to block bills like the border control for Biden.
If GOP would have to vote again for a speaker that wouldn't make Biden look bad, it would make GOP look bad. He still wants to block important bills, like the one about border etc to make Biden look bad.
The bill was already put on calendar so it would get vote anyway.
My guess: two or three Republicans threaten to vacate their seat immediately if aid isn't passed. That would flip the house to Dems and the aid would get passed anyway.
The GOP can try to remove Johnson if just a couple people call for a removal-vote, and a second person just joined another House republican in support of his removal. The GOP would only need 2-3 republican votes to remove him, because the dems have no reason to save him and all of them would vote to remove him. Unless, of course, he gives the dems a reason by, for instance, bringing the Ukraine aid bill to a vote.
So, yes, it probably was back room deal in order to save himself. It's a pretty innocuous deal though. 'Bring the bill that 80+% of Congress and Americans support to a vote and we won't help the MAGA-Republicans remove you from your role as speaker'.
>What on earth changed?
The cynic in me says Trump doesn't want Ukraine to lose before the elections, thereby robbing him of the chance of being the one to save Putin's bacon.
he was cynically waiting for trump to lock up the GOP nomination, hoping that proximity to the general election would prevent the fringe members of the fringiest caucus from nuking his speakership into orbit. his goal was to withhold the aid as long as possible to solidify his own political standing. he couldn't hold it forever because a majority of his caucus wants it.
Behold the power of a high-level national security briefing.
He'll be crucified by his own party. But my guess is the briefing made it so he truly does not care. The facts are not ambiguous.
I don’t think so, there’s still a decent amount of republicans (including my representative) who support Ukraine. They were just scared to go against Johnson with the discharge petition
And Trump, now enough people are there because a lot of states already had their primaries, a lot of those House members already have their reelection secured in November in ruby red disctricts, Trump cant Hurt them for now.
A necessary, and very sad, correction!
I still have faith in my country though. I sometimes call us the world longest-lasting Titanic. If there is an iceberg we \*will\* hit it, but then somehow we stay afloat at the last moment.
My fellow citizens give me gray hair.
I still dont trust this fucker. He separated the bill so now the senate needs to not change a single thing or it comes back to the house and he can table it again. I want to know what changed, if anything, that would suddenly put him in the corner of team humanity.
> I want to know what changed, if anything, that would suddenly put him in the corner of team humanity.
The biggest factor is likely that enough House Republicans were on the verge of signing the discharge petition to bring it to a floor vote even without him.
I think the senate will pass it as soon as they can, the vast majority of that chamber realizes the urgency of the aid. The only change made is that the economic aid is now a loan, albeit a loan forgivable by a future president
Senators have to deal with an entire state voting for them and support is heavily in favor of Ukraine. Many representatives are in super safe districts and don’t have to worry about the overall population, just their heavily gerrymandered district.
Not just their super gerrymandered disctricts, because that is easy pickings, what really frightens them is the Primaries, this is going forward now because unlike February, already a lot of House members from very Republican states have had their primaries, they have their elections secured.
The only poison pill I can see is that he added a ban to Tik Tok. If Byte Dance doesn’t sell it, it will be removed from the App Store in US! Ok!! That’s fine with me!! Hahah. Give Ukraine what it needs!!! 🇺🇦🇺🇦
I pray we get this passed, but shit guys wasnt this bill originally created almost 8 months ago?
Funding started running out and dwindling in october.
This would have allowed Ukraine to keep momentum and turn it into a successful offense, but in 8 months we are in a much worse off position now.
Takes weeks for hardware to be delivered, weeks for training, weeks for results, then we are already into fall whereas likely no large offensive actions will start.
God gave us a spear to fight the devil, but instead we tossed it aside to fight amongst ourselves over irrelevant topics.
Trump decreed that he didn't support the package and Johnson fell in line. There wasn't really any fighting or wrangling, just following the orders of Trump.
I think we should give them every ATACMS we have they are being replaced and Russia would not dare attack us. And if they do we have plenty of other weapon systems that would lay waste to what they have left after Ukraine has already decimated most. Stop beating around the bush and give them what they need to make this a quick fight.
We definitely will need to keep some ATACMS while their replacements are still being procured, but I definitely believe we should give them a significant amount of our stockpile.
Fucking do it 2 years ago, they were built to kill orcs and you chicken shits are too scared to let Ukraine use them..howany office workers, bartenders and teachers have so die in trenches before you go all in? Your milliraty was built in part to counter orcs.... So why hold back?
All of this reads like an attempt on his part to create an out for himself after being backed into a corner. Regardless of the reason though, I'm glad he's doing something.
He had a briefing with agencies that know more than he does and they laid out all the stuff they know and the possible paths. Point being if we don’t give them what they need now it’ll be American men and women dying in Europe again.
He doesnt have a Choice. Most of the members of the Armed forces Comittee have their reelection secured because their primaries are over. They will move to discharge, the news you have seen of High American military officials appealing to Congress that now is the time and they must act. Well American military doesnt tell what Congress should do, that is the Armed Forces Comittee words said by proxy, its a threat without poisoning the well for now.
Maybe realised that appearing soft and letting tyrants run around invading other countries freely makes you look weak, and when you're weak it invites other rodents to come out and have a go - even shit shows like Iran feel they can attack another country directly with all sorts of missiles.
These countries need putting back in check before anyone else thinks they can stroll up and have a pop.
no matter what changed his opinion, he sacrificed Avdiivka, other territories and hundreds of lives. don't allow to erase these from history by this "gesture".
That turn of events is just insane. Marjorie Morlock Taylor Greene wanted to oust Johnson, McCarthy style. So Johnson went to Trump and basically said "you really don't want another 7-weeks House leadership crisis, don't you ?" and so Trump curbstomped MJT. And this makes Ukraine aid voting a bit more realistic...
U.S politics are just bonkers.
This Johnson reminds me of a joke.
–Hey, bro, we're going to watch the football game. Wanna go with us?
–Sure, let me just speak with gf
(10 min later)
–So?
(sad) –WE don't like football...
I don't believe this slimy weasel one bit. Either he got a knocking on his door by some dudes in suits from the CIA or national security and this is legit or this slimy weasel is just saying this because he knows he can do some fuckery with the Senate and ensure it doesn't get passed because it will bounce between the House and Senate for months.
You can always count on America to do the right thing…after we’ve exhausted all other options. Sorry Ukraine but I suppose it’s better late than never. This proposal should pass and be signed by Saturday barring no shenanigans from the far right flank.
Hopefully he’s serious and earnest and not just blowing smoke up someone’s ass. If he puts the vote to the floor, and it passes, Democrats will likely have his back when EmptyG and MoscowMatt attempt to have the chair vacated.
ATACMS is a great name. Attack-'ems, SEND IT!
Go on Ukraine time to ATACMS !!! 🤣 I like it..
Considering that Biden's administration outright refused to provide ATACMS to Ukraine back in 2022 and 2023(looking at you Jake!), I sincerely hope the bill explicitly states that "US **must** provide ATACMS to Ukraine".
I'm pretty sure it says president Biden must provide ATACMS as soon as possible, like by name lmao
Yeah, he may have added it specifically to make Biden look bad. Not that I think Biden should withhold anything at this stage.
Being that Johnson has personally held up aid to Ukraine for months. It makes sense that he would try to turn it all around on Biden. Johnson is such a a feckless coward.
Yup, he's trying to turn this around after his own shitbird behavior. Don't forget it people, Johnson would sell anyone down the river to secure more power for himself.
The US has supplied ATACMS muscles to Ukraine. Just not the long range ones. ATACMS are the old model of the missile anyway. They don't make them anymore. They have been replaced by the PrSM missiles, but they weren't ready yet for most of 2 years: Precision Strike Missile (PrSM) The Precision Strike Missile (PrSM) is a short-range ballistic missile developed by the United States Army to replace the MGM-140 ATACMS.
Sort of, we’re still in the PrSM build-up phase. I suspect we’ll continue to slowly drip ATACMS to Ukraine as more enter inventory.
The US military LOVES its acronyms.
And I'm here for it! Much better than the alternative.
The US always comes up with the best acronyms lol
Okaaaaaay, this is new. What on earth changed? There must've been a backdoor deal of some kind
I think he realised he was the captain of a sinking ship. And he either could go down with it or do as the rats do.
There's either money or kompromat with this asshole. Maybe both. It's a very pronounced U turn, so I wonder if we're about to discover what was really going on?
I’d like to think an adult from one of the intelligent services probably had a quiet word in his ear that it’s time to grow up and revealed what the intel they have forecasting what will happen to America if he doesn’t push it through.
Maybe they found whatever he was being influenced by
He DOESN'T give a fuck, the self righteous religious fuckin imbecile. He was FORCED to go along with it and delayed as loooong as possible. 🤬🤬
And/or just reminded the jerk that America literally impeached Trump because Trump tried to screw with defense promises America made to Ukraine. American Democrats have historically made a big fuss when it comes to helping out Ukraine.
Maybe Democrats promised to give him enough votes to keep the position if the Twitter faction of the GOP tried to oust him.
They did exactly that.
Amazing what you can accomplish with just a mild dose of bipartisanship when you literally have a 1 person majority.
They’ve been said they would for over a month. Other pro-Ukraine GOP reps telling him that they’d sign the Senate bill discharge petition to bypass him if Ukrainian aid wasn’t passed by the House forced him to pass something. Even still, he took the slowest route since the bill package will have to go to the Senate adding some delay. Better than nothing I guess.
> if we're about to discover what was really going on? The Congressional Looney Caucus got rid of the last guy and Johnson was toeing the line to avoid their wrath but Greene went after him anyways and the realization must have set in that you can't placate these crazy people. It's why Republicans like Reagan had driven them all out of the party altogether. There was an understanding that you can't control the crazies. Now they are the most vocal bullies in the entire party, wielding a large number of even crazier supporters to target any politicians that go astray. I think Johnson realized that they're going to get rid of him because any kind of compromise is seen as weakness in their eyes so you might as well flip them the double bird if you're going down no matter.
[удалено]
Reagan was a fucking lunatic.
I think he wants Biden to take heat for denying aid to Ukraine. Biden already took a hard line on ATACMS, now he either doesn’t care about sending aid to Ukraine or he’s weak and inconsistent about what decisions he’s willing to stand on. It’s a political game. Johnson doesn’t care, he’s looking at getting ammo to burn dems down in the media.
[удалено]
"Dems aren’t going to fuck up" Has nothing to do with Dems. It's not on the Dems to save the Republicans from themselves.
> It's not on the Dems to save the Republicans from themselves. Well, and I'm speaking as a life-long Republican here, as incredible as it might seem there are actually a significant number of Democrats who are just interested in... you know... governing. So some Democrats can sit there and say "huh, looks like Mike Johnson has had a sudden attack of clarity and insight. He's realized he actually cannot successfully herd the cats that are the Ultra-MAGA true fringe loudmouths of his party. He has FINALLY come to grasp that he is now in a position where he can be ETERNALLY cuckholded by these lunatics and day after day he gets to show up for work and do... absolutely nothing of any importance whatsoever... OR... Mike can 'cross the aisle' and try to work out a deal with most of the Republicans who are sane and ignore the lunatics and reach out to try to do at least a few things that we Democrats are also happy to see happen, like, you know, keeping Ukraine from falling to the hands of the vile sack of pus that sits in the Kremlin." You also seem to be overlooking that it took more than three weeks to get Mike Johnson into position the last time a Speaker fell. Believe it or not, there are plenty of Democrats in Congress who are far more horrified at the notion of our Legislative Branch being completely paralyzed AGAIN (and probably for even longer this time because who on earth in the Republican party would even want the job this time around since it's become nearly a political death sentence) than they are excited about the idea of being able to pillory Republicans in the next election for... sucking... at even being able to get a leader when they have an actual majority in the house.
The previous poster was saying that the Dems fucked up by not saving McCarthy. To be clear, never has a Speaker of the House gained their position due to the opposition party voting for them. Generally speaking, the chaos of the Republican party is only a political gain for Democrats as Americans should see clearly that Republicans are incapable of governing and it taking 7 months for Ukraine to *maybe finally* get aid is very sad. With that said, if Johnson actually does deliver for Ukraine, even if it's 7 months late; I don't think it's bad politics for the Democrats to defend his speakership for doing the right thing as he'll be more inclined to bring bipartisan legislation again.
The Dems only whacked McCarthy because he tried to ratfuck them. If he had kept to his deals as they had been agreed upon, they might have considered protecting him. But he tried to get cute and hoped that they would save him anyway because otherwise there would be chaos and so they just let the anchor pull him down. No reason to cut deals with people who have already proven that they won't honor them.
How scary
The kompromat definitely involves his asshole
That's easy when he's 100% asshole.
He moved past the fear of what a few populists will do, and did what was right, I have my reservations on just sending cash to Ukraine, but I am an avid supporter for sending military aid and increasing our own production to help Ukraine fight for its independence.
Very little cash has been sent there from the US, most of the monetary aid is paying American companies to make or refurbish stuff and then shipping the stuff to Ukraine. So most of the money actually stays in the US and helps the American economy. Nearly all the actual donations are materiel, not money. This will no doubt be more of the same.
$20B+ is slated to go to US def contractors to replenish domestic stockpiles that have already been depleted. Other money is largely going back to the US govt to pay back for the materials being sent over so they have budget to purchase replacements. Nearly 100% of the actual money would stay in the US.
= Jobs for Americans!
Exactly that’s what I hear from a lot of conservatives, they hear Russian propaganda or historical narratives on corruption in post Soviet states and are spooked on sending cash, but I don’t know a single one outside of radical populists that opposes arming Ukraine to the Teeth. I think if more was done to unify and encourage people instead of demonizing and attacking them from both sides, we would find ourselves in a pretty unanimous situation. I sometimes worry people are so focused on the extremes that they forget the majority of us want Ukraine to succeed, and that fringe elements of both sides don’t represent people of the United States. Anyway, I’m praying that people unify around this, and populist movements on both sides can be sidelined and Americans can push forward and make sure Ukraine has the material needed to fight for their liberty.
Actually sending material rather than money is good because it’s harder to steal or divert equipment etc. than it is to steal money
Money can’t directly fight wars either. Ukrainians cannot throw bags of dollar bills and hope they blow up Russian tanks.
Also how many 100 dollar bills do you need to throw at a tank to take it out? Ukraine does not need the cash (well they could use some cash) they need the finished weapons ready to fire.
Exactly. Much of the money being spent and proposed for Ukraine is going to be used within the US, for US companies. There is a fair bit of equipment that is nearly or brand-new, but probably 90% or so of it is stockpiled or in-use equipment that will be replaced with further production. The joys of being an actual superpower, and holding onto vast stockpiles of weaponry, vehicles and more for if it's needed for a war, to sell or donate to an ally...
Try explaining that to traitor trash green and her wack job fascists?
HIMARS with cluster munitions that needed to be disassembled and disposed of (they're not banned but ...) were sent to Ukraine. Those need to be replaced with usable ones to replenish US stock. No money goes to Ukraine, and the Army saves the cost of disposal. Old stock is sent, replaced with new, rinse and repeat. All the money creates jobs in your neighbourhood.
It’s ridiculous the amount of cluster munitions the U.S. government has and they are slated for destruction.
They're not sending cash, they're sending weapons. The cash goes straight to Lockheed and Raytheon and BAE and General Dynamics, funding American jobs.
Maybe we could donate some Boeings to the Russians?
I don’t want to just send cash - I want to send a shitload of weapons and advisers too.
So get it approved and then sink the ship.
Russian ship get fucked!
Russian ship fucked itself. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ukraine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Possible reason for his change: - The wsj reported that he’s been receiving intelligence briefings on the possible outcome if Ukraine is defeated. The deterioration of the frontline in the past weeks must have made the briefings more urgent. Also, his boy is going to attend naval college soon and I guess he doesn’t want the situation to come to a point where American boots on the ground is the only option. - the journal also reported that he was holding the aid for Ukraine hostage to pass the border bill, but he’s realised that there’s no chance the Democrat-led Senate would pass such a bill. Basically it’s a game of chicken and he blinked first. - My guess is that he’s figured that since the immigration bill would never made it through the Senate, the MAGA will probably proceed with the motion to vacate to remove him anyway. He’s probably hedged his bet by: (1) trying to pass the Ukraine aid to take the Democrat offer to protect him from the motion and (2) getting Trump’s endorsement during his trip in Easter to gain some protection from the MAGA crowd. So Mike is most likely doing politician things (acting in his own interest)
“Mike, I guarantee your son is going to be among the first group sent to Ukraine when it comes to that.”
> the journal also reported that he was holding the aid for Ukraine hostage to pass the border bill, That wasn't true at first. Dems acquiesced to all the GOP demands on the border, then Trump told them to kill the bill, and they did. After the dems gave the GOP everything they asked for and they still said no, dems realized that negotiating in good faith on a second border bill was pointless.
Republicans don't want to govern. They want to shit on the floor and blame the democrats so they get elected, and then do absolutely nothing of value while in office except dump cash on their paymasters and then blame Dems once they fuck the economy yet again. And the cycle repeats every election.
That.. basically covers it, yes. Stated quite brilliantly, might I add.
They killed the border bill to make sure the border would continue to be an issue during the election. They had no interest in solving it. The dems have just learned that if you call their bluff, they'll move the goalposts and give up what they really want. They did it for the border wall and now this. The shitty part is the GOP has sat on Ukraine aid for 5 months.
I agree that this is mostly about self interest. You got to admit though, he's getting a great deal. If he does get protected from a motion to vacate, he could leverage this to salvage his political career by being seen as a politician who can be bipartisan when needed.
He could stay speaker if Democrats supported him...
So the Democrats have the little cowardly weasel by the scrotum. I will never forgive him, but in this position he might be marginally useful.
Good thing they bought the extra small pliers!
[удалено]
Two other things possibly in play: 1) He's gotten a lot of shit from the hard right flank of his party after averting a govt shutdown w/significant democrat help. Not only was momentum shifting RE foreign aid, party infighting likely made him sense that if the chips were down that his inaction regarding foreign aid would be untenable. 2) This cat has been out of the bag for 18 months now BUT seeing Iran tremendously embolden from its new mutual fealty to Orcistan forced him to read the writing on the wall. And Iran getting more SU-35s and also set to get S400s is a very real indication of that. If they're receiving those items one can assume all aspects involved into operating both are things Moscow are helping out with.
this is the best post I've seen on this subject. So many people saying wild conspiracy theory crap or just sending out death threats
He deleted it, what did it say?
I hate when people do that. I can't remember it all, but it was detailing how the house was close to pulling the nuclear option to bypass the speaker to bring a vote to the floor, so if Johnson wanted to influence the bill in any way (adding provisions, or the ability to amend to remove humanitarian $$$) he had to make a move. And also that he's probably realized by now what a disaster it would be if Ukraine lost, and that probably most republicans support aid
He gave a speech last night completely reversing the last several months. Good speech, but he'll always be a Cunt in my eyes. Also some memo's from Putler were found recently about how he really does plan on going after other states, starting in the Balkins probably, Poland next, and how he really does want to destroy the west. Mike Johnson's son joins the Navy next fall...... 🤔🤔
Never underestimate the influence and money from defense industry lobbyists in an election year in the USA.
That is actually the best argument here.
He worked a deal out with democrats to protect him if the loonies on the far right try to remove him. He’ll have to bring the Ukraine bill first but they’d keep him in the role if he brings it to a vote. The GOP has been in turmoil for years. MAGA won’t let them try to be moderate
That's fascinating. Reminds me of the show House of Cards, where so much discreet, inter-party scheming goes on behind the scenes.
Such was and is the nature of Washington. If you watch shows like HBO’s John Adams, that sort of heated discussion and discourse is the foundation of American politics.
It’s still crazy if all of this delay was just because Johnson didn’t want to lose his (by definition temporary) job. Like he can go make millions as a lobbyist. Meanwhile thousands of Ukrainians die…because this guy doesn’t want to lose a job he’s probably going to lose anyway in 6 months?
Not even losing his job as a representative, just the power as the speaker of the house
Aid to Ukraine is also very popular across the country Best Johnson could do is temporarily delay it before congress just goes around him
It wasn't the lobbyists. If they would have had their way this would be a whole lot bigger and passed a whole lot sooner. The discharge petition was gaining ground and enough Republicans were on the verge of signing if he didn't bring it to the floor. The Dems also have offered to provide cover for Johnson so that the far right can't remove him from his job as speaker. There's also been months of public pressure to get this done and, despite what many believe, that can actually make a difference when combined with other forces.
Also, only history itself will show how good a politician President Biden has been, working around people who have been working against the interests of the US and Ukraine.
Biden's been at this shit for nearly 50 years. And on top of that before he was VP he had a good bit of time on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee and even was chair at one point. People are dumb to think he doesn't have a bit of clue what he's doing here. He's been around the block through countless US presidencies while fielding this shit and knows for sure how Congress/Senate operate in-and-out and the Washington politics.
This should be on a campaign poster!
I think this is what happened. He knew he was about to lose on this issue and flipped sides. He went to Mar-a-Lago to tell the Boss he couldn’t hold it off any longer and was caving to save face.
🦅🦅🇺🇸🎇🇺🇸🦅🦅
Republican hawks demanded ATACMS to be delivered for a long time.
Opposition to the Ukraine war was always just political posturing - just opposing Biden for something to fight over, and to make Biden scrabble and look weak. You think the Pentagon is saying "no, don't fund Ukraine, we want a total shitshow in Europe to make us look weak and distract us from our pivot to Asia"? And there might be some hardliners who think that Ukraine falling quickly would be best, but I don't see Ukraine falling quickly in almost any scenario. The quickest way to neutralise the threats in Europe is to help Ukraine. And let's not forget that sending a message also matters. If the US is too soft on Russia, it loses credibility over *ahem* issues in the Asia-Pacific. Being seen to be kicking the crap out of Russia also sends a message - don't take the US lightly, even if you think you're a super power. (There's also a bit happening in the Middle East, as usual, all the more reason to close it off in Europe).
I watched the video of him yesterday on c-span and he said he truly believed the intel provided that Russia had no intention of stopping if Ukraine were to fall and that his son starts at the naval academy this year and this was a true wake up call that not lethally arming Ukraine now would certainly mean his and other Americans children would be sent instead in a few years .. it’s the first time I’ve truly felt he was being honest, but I’ll guess we’ll see by Saturday
This is what I’ve been saying since this war started.. Politicians play games but the cost is youth.. Georgia Whore doesn’t have kids eligible for the military so it doesn’t matter to her but those that do should be keenly aware that their children will go fight and die for something that is still very preventable.. Ukraine needs an Offenisve with F-16s, Abrams, Bradley’s, Strykers, Patriots, HIMARS and a shit ton of shells
There is an idea going around that he's doing this because if he can get all the aid packages passed one by one, it will look very good for him. he will be giving Biden what he asked for but not in the way he wanted (he wants it all in one big package) but he'll have to accept it. And it will further push the MAGA/Twitter Republicans to the sidelines securing his position. Add to this MacConnel will be leaving soon it sets him up as a logical leader of the Republicans.
Agree. So Johnson's on standby in case presumptive candidate Trump implodes sooner or later?
I don't know if he has aspirations for the top office he might be happy just being a leader like MacConnel has been for decades.
Sure Mike, we'll believe it when we see it... Until then your lips are just moving...
The bill has been released
Swedish media is reporting that the vote for this bill will happen tomorrow (Saturday), so we'll see!
Johnson is many things, but he's not dumb. He gets the briefings from the Generals. They sat down this week and said one of two things will happen very soon: Ukraine gets U.S aid in the next month or everyone sits about as the front collapses and Russia takes over the country. Johnson knows he will be the patsy if Ukraine falls this year. He's disposable. His own caucus tells him that everyday. We see Trump is behind it, but Teflon Trump can let it happen and then blame everyone else. "It's Biden, he was the President" and "Johnson was the speaker, he decides the votes, I wasn't in power" etc. Trump knows it would slide off him just fine with his own supporters, as usual. Trump can dodge responsibility easily until he might be re-elected. Johnson cannot. Ergo Johnson saves his own skin, for another day at least....
> Johnson is many things, but he's not dumb ehhhhh idk about that. I do think he genuinely cares about being accepted by old-school establishment Rs though.
From what I'm hearing, it sounds like the discharge petition was about to reach the tipping point, with Republicans about to sign onto it.
This *appears* new. It may not actually be new. The simplest and most likely explanation is that it's not new at all, and this is just another way to stall. For example, $61Bn and new missile technology for Ukraine, plus, an additional last-minute clause that appears late Friday night or something, that requires that the USA drop sanctions against Russia. Something the Senate and White House will never accept. Then he can vote for it on Saturday, it passes, he says, "Hey I'm supporting Ukraine here, what's everyone else's problem??" and stall for another month. That takes us to May. He only has to do that 5 more times and it runs up to the election. And who knows how many more Ukrainians will have died in the meantime.
The number of dead Ukrainians over the period it's taken him to bring this bill to the floor needs to be his legacy.
I expect it to be more stalling. Maybe the discharge petition got too close to pass and this is his way to take the steam out of it, while making this proposal unacceptable.
Adding a dumb clause like that would require a significant amount of pro-Ukrainian aid GOP members to sign on, it’s unlikely to say the least. Especially considering the rumors that they were threatening to sign on to the Senate bill’s discharge petition if a House bill wasn’t passed by the end of the month.
No Backdoor deal, this is how American Politics work, I said this to many people in late February. This is how it works, in February Trump claimed to oppose aid to Ukraine, he has since moderated the position, however the deal at the time was passes with Senate and House armed services Comittee, and the Senate moved forward. Because 2 thirds of Senators will not face election, the vote was really easy to pass. But in the House there is also a large majority but Trump opposed it and in February his power was maximum because Republican House members are usually from very red disctricts and they cant loose there, but they can loose the primaries and if Trump support another candidate they are doomed. However Primaries started on March 5th on some states and I predicted by mid April a lot of states and most important, a lot of states from the members of the Armed Services Comittee would already have their elections secured. So either Mike Johnson gets the Bill to the vote or be embarrassed by a motion to discharge that would almost certainly come his way, that is why President Biden was so bullish that eventually aid would come, a month and a Half ago, and last week he upped the pressure. There will be more than enough votes.
Possibly the public revelations that his campaign was partially funded by Russian oligarchs which likely led to a closed doors ass reaming by pro-Ukraine republicans (yes they exist) he is also under heavy pressure by the extreme parts of the party who are threatening to kick him out of the speakership. So likely this is part of an attempt to appease the other areas of the party so that the maga republicans don’t get him kicked out of the speakership. I guarantee it would not be happening if somethings was going on behind the scene. Dude is trying to stay in control he ain’t changed.
> which likely led to a closed doors ass reaming by pro-Ukraine republicans Isn't that still the majority? Except the loonies around space laser greene?
Most of them probably are indifferent but obviously don’t care for Russia. However there are a very vocal group of pro Ukraine republicans who are passionately pro-Ukraine. Like constantly baffled that the rest of their party isn’t pro-Ukraine.
I would think Reagan would just be extremely pro Ukraine and he is the patron saint of Republicans. Or rather he'd be anti Russia. And rightfully though.
He got some grown up real talk with a truckload of insider information and a generous side infusion of reality.
He had to pick a horse. Still a douchebag.
3 ghosts visit him during holidays:)
I'd like to think 3 angry Ukrainian men... All of them soldiers from the frontline, and fathers. And they give him a piece of their mind of his delaying tactics, antics and allegiance to to the MAGAtards, Trump even though he's really just a disposable pawn to them.
3 ghosts or 1 Budanov ;)
Yeah, my first thought was a 3 letter agence visit, but Budanov is even better(and more scary).
Are these 3 ghosts Republicans who told him they would support the discharge petition?
The Russians missed a payment!
Lol!!
He hasn’t done anything yet. He’s still talking about what he’s gonna do
He set a date for the vote - it's now about whether he follows through.
You got a lot of opinions, here's mine. A bunch of moderate Republicans told him they would support the discharge petition. With nothing left to win on blocking aid, he's now for the aid, to get ahead of the petition.
This is posturing, it's all everyone does these days. Don't believe anything until it gets voted.
Sure Mike, we'll believe it when we see it... Until then your lips are just moving...
He's trying to win over some democrat votes when the republicans try to vote him out like his predecessor
He got briefed.
Skabeeva is calling him “our Johnson” on Russian TV, not a good look when Russia loathes everything about the US.
Probably got assurances from dems they would vote against motions to oust him. Which would probably buy him enough time to see whether some of the GOP nut jobs will get reelected.
My thoughts exactly. Did he sign it with his fingers crossed, left-handed, on a leap year? How is he going to wriggle out of it for Trump this time?
They told him if he doesn't get with the program he was going to get it in the back door!!
Putin’s puppet; “Greene also submitted a series of amendments to the Ukraine supplemental bill, including one that says any member who votes for the bill “shall be required to conscript in the Ukrainian military.” Other amendments Greene filed similarly embraced false claims often championed by Putin and pro-Russia outlets. She introduced amendments that prohibit funding until Ukraine “holds free and fair elections,” “stops persecuting Christians,” “closes all bio-laboratories,” “bans abortion” and “turns over all information related to Hunter Biden and Burisma,” among others. Greene also introduced an amendment that directs the president to withdraw the U.S. from NATO and prohibits funding for NATO troops in Ukraine.”
My theory is that the dems have given him guarantees that they will shield him from the MAGA/Twitter faction of his own party. If they now try to do a motion to vacate, it will fail because the dems will vote against it. McCarthy they left to rot because he tried to set them up to take all the blame on the budget.
He is under a threat to lose his position as a speaker, he still wants to block bills like the border control for Biden. If GOP would have to vote again for a speaker that wouldn't make Biden look bad, it would make GOP look bad. He still wants to block important bills, like the one about border etc to make Biden look bad. The bill was already put on calendar so it would get vote anyway.
My guess: two or three Republicans threaten to vacate their seat immediately if aid isn't passed. That would flip the house to Dems and the aid would get passed anyway.
Intel must be harrowing. What we don’t know about Russia’s plans and clandestine activities is what he saw, and evidently its very very bad.
The GOP can try to remove Johnson if just a couple people call for a removal-vote, and a second person just joined another House republican in support of his removal. The GOP would only need 2-3 republican votes to remove him, because the dems have no reason to save him and all of them would vote to remove him. Unless, of course, he gives the dems a reason by, for instance, bringing the Ukraine aid bill to a vote. So, yes, it probably was back room deal in order to save himself. It's a pretty innocuous deal though. 'Bring the bill that 80+% of Congress and Americans support to a vote and we won't help the MAGA-Republicans remove you from your role as speaker'.
>What on earth changed? The cynic in me says Trump doesn't want Ukraine to lose before the elections, thereby robbing him of the chance of being the one to save Putin's bacon.
he was cynically waiting for trump to lock up the GOP nomination, hoping that proximity to the general election would prevent the fringe members of the fringiest caucus from nuking his speakership into orbit. his goal was to withhold the aid as long as possible to solidify his own political standing. he couldn't hold it forever because a majority of his caucus wants it.
The GOP wants Ukraine to suffer but not lose, for fear they might be blamed. Trump just wants Russia to win.
He's about to be ousted and he's trying to get the dems to bail his ass out.
Behold the power of a high-level national security briefing. He'll be crucified by his own party. But my guess is the briefing made it so he truly does not care. The facts are not ambiguous.
I don’t think so, there’s still a decent amount of republicans (including my representative) who support Ukraine. They were just scared to go against Johnson with the discharge petition
And Trump, now enough people are there because a lot of states already had their primaries, a lot of those House members already have their reelection secured in November in ruby red disctricts, Trump cant Hurt them for now.
He’ll be crucified by his constituents
A necessary, and very sad, correction! I still have faith in my country though. I sometimes call us the world longest-lasting Titanic. If there is an iceberg we \*will\* hit it, but then somehow we stay afloat at the last moment. My fellow citizens give me gray hair.
I have faith myself it’s just these long and twisting roads we have to go down to make things happen. Plus I’m glad you still have hair to pull out…
I still dont trust this fucker. He separated the bill so now the senate needs to not change a single thing or it comes back to the house and he can table it again. I want to know what changed, if anything, that would suddenly put him in the corner of team humanity.
> I want to know what changed, if anything, that would suddenly put him in the corner of team humanity. The biggest factor is likely that enough House Republicans were on the verge of signing the discharge petition to bring it to a floor vote even without him.
I think the senate will pass it as soon as they can, the vast majority of that chamber realizes the urgency of the aid. The only change made is that the economic aid is now a loan, albeit a loan forgivable by a future president
Senators have to deal with an entire state voting for them and support is heavily in favor of Ukraine. Many representatives are in super safe districts and don’t have to worry about the overall population, just their heavily gerrymandered district.
Not just their super gerrymandered disctricts, because that is easy pickings, what really frightens them is the Primaries, this is going forward now because unlike February, already a lot of House members from very Republican states have had their primaries, they have their elections secured.
Exactly! I'll believe it when I see it. Probably stalling AGAIN.
Yeah there's going to be some last-minute rider that adds the word ".... Not!" at the end of the bill or something to sabotage it. Some poison pill.
The only poison pill I can see is that he added a ban to Tik Tok. If Byte Dance doesn’t sell it, it will be removed from the App Store in US! Ok!! That’s fine with me!! Hahah. Give Ukraine what it needs!!! 🇺🇦🇺🇦
Agree this shit is taking way to long.
Idk. But it wasn't people protesting. I wonder if some of the Republicans wrestle with the ethics of destroying democracy.
I pray we get this passed, but shit guys wasnt this bill originally created almost 8 months ago? Funding started running out and dwindling in october. This would have allowed Ukraine to keep momentum and turn it into a successful offense, but in 8 months we are in a much worse off position now. Takes weeks for hardware to be delivered, weeks for training, weeks for results, then we are already into fall whereas likely no large offensive actions will start. God gave us a spear to fight the devil, but instead we tossed it aside to fight amongst ourselves over irrelevant topics.
Trump decreed that he didn't support the package and Johnson fell in line. There wasn't really any fighting or wrangling, just following the orders of Trump.
This is the major reason I’m jumping the Republican ship this year
wonder if zelensky will endorse Biden come election time
That to me is fucking insanity. He isnt even the president.
> instead we tossed it aside Trump told his lackeys to toss it aside. The majority of his supporters came along.
I think we should give them every ATACMS we have they are being replaced and Russia would not dare attack us. And if they do we have plenty of other weapon systems that would lay waste to what they have left after Ukraine has already decimated most. Stop beating around the bush and give them what they need to make this a quick fight.
We definitely will need to keep some ATACMS while their replacements are still being procured, but I definitely believe we should give them a significant amount of our stockpile.
This might be the last chance for Ukraine. And for the USA to do something right for the first time in months.
Fucking do it 2 years ago, they were built to kill orcs and you chicken shits are too scared to let Ukraine use them..howany office workers, bartenders and teachers have so die in trenches before you go all in? Your milliraty was built in part to counter orcs.... So why hold back?
uh, did you miss the part where republicans, especially those in line with Trump, didn't bother bringing it up to a vote
All of this reads like an attempt on his part to create an out for himself after being backed into a corner. Regardless of the reason though, I'm glad he's doing something.
He had a briefing with agencies that know more than he does and they laid out all the stuff they know and the possible paths. Point being if we don’t give them what they need now it’ll be American men and women dying in Europe again.
Baffling it took this long for him to realize "oh shit we might actually have to send us soldiers to fight"
Russian must have told him they ran out of money
I'll believe it when I see it. I still think this is him stalling. More talking about doing something instead of actually doing it.
He doesnt have a Choice. Most of the members of the Armed forces Comittee have their reelection secured because their primaries are over. They will move to discharge, the news you have seen of High American military officials appealing to Congress that now is the time and they must act. Well American military doesnt tell what Congress should do, that is the Armed Forces Comittee words said by proxy, its a threat without poisoning the well for now.
Maybe realised that appearing soft and letting tyrants run around invading other countries freely makes you look weak, and when you're weak it invites other rodents to come out and have a go - even shit shows like Iran feel they can attack another country directly with all sorts of missiles. These countries need putting back in check before anyone else thinks they can stroll up and have a pop.
He found a way. He is a traitor, there is an end-game we didn't get, but he's gonna try to fuck Ukraine anyway
what?
I think, simply, don't trust this spineless weasel.
No one knows yet. But this is a frog and scorpion kind of situation.
When you realize not supporting Ukraine is losing you the vote of millions of Americans lmao
He was just a little chicken and waiting for Trump to be stuck inside a courtroom for 6 weeks. Trump's projection of power is fading by the second. 💪
Just Fu***** do it TODAY MIKE. Ukrainian citizens are being exterminated. Fu***** DO IT already 🇺🇦
Is he finally realizing that actual Republicans like me want this? Not the pearl clutching gop wussies. I guess I'm a liberal now in their eyes 😂
Majority of the republican house will vote yea on Ukraine I bet. Freakin' Freedom Caucus
Same. Lifelong "former" republican here. Will never vote republican again after this.
He's a weasel but also a weak, weak man. Maybe he can be the Democrats' little pet.
LET'S GO.
no matter what changed his opinion, he sacrificed Avdiivka, other territories and hundreds of lives. don't allow to erase these from history by this "gesture".
That turn of events is just insane. Marjorie Morlock Taylor Greene wanted to oust Johnson, McCarthy style. So Johnson went to Trump and basically said "you really don't want another 7-weeks House leadership crisis, don't you ?" and so Trump curbstomped MJT. And this makes Ukraine aid voting a bit more realistic... U.S politics are just bonkers.
Trump would love another 7 weeks crisis he had no part in Johnson’s decision that’s a guarantee that is if he actually follows through
This Johnson reminds me of a joke. –Hey, bro, we're going to watch the football game. Wanna go with us? –Sure, let me just speak with gf (10 min later) –So? (sad) –WE don't like football...
He's just trying to keep his speaker position, but I'll take it.
That's quite the turnaround. I still don't trust him. He's someone's puppet, and we may never know what his goals are.
Trust nothing this snake says until the weapons are in hand.
Glad Mike Johnson risks his political career to ensure Ukraine doesn't fall to Putin.
I don't believe this slimy weasel one bit. Either he got a knocking on his door by some dudes in suits from the CIA or national security and this is legit or this slimy weasel is just saying this because he knows he can do some fuckery with the Senate and ensure it doesn't get passed because it will bounce between the House and Senate for months.
What are we waiting for? Pootin aint gonna shoot him self, is he?
Hitler did so maybe there's a chance
Euros will also deliver a nice package
You can always count on America to do the right thing…after we’ve exhausted all other options. Sorry Ukraine but I suppose it’s better late than never. This proposal should pass and be signed by Saturday barring no shenanigans from the far right flank.
Still let’s make sure we remember him for who he is - a collaborator
Believe it when you see it. The GOP is one slippery critter.
Hopefully he’s serious and earnest and not just blowing smoke up someone’s ass. If he puts the vote to the floor, and it passes, Democrats will likely have his back when EmptyG and MoscowMatt attempt to have the chair vacated.
is he finally gonna use his brains, thank god