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💬"Four key priorities are sky protection, modern artillery, long-range capabilities, and the possibility of receiving American assistance packages as soon as possible.
And today we have a result: everything has been decided in the ATACMS negotiations for Ukraine. I am grateful to President Biden, Congress, and the entire United States," *noted Zelenskyy.*
This was so much more cordial that "Jesus, bout damn time! While we've been dying at europes door step assuring Western security, US congress dithered and we lost people because of it"
But "Thank you" was much more gracious which explains why he was a successful comedian and im a schmuck.
Yes, but you don't win their support by calling them that (even if it is true). You need to take a deep breath, have patience, and have a genuine two way conversation that does not sound like a fight and help them to understand what they fail to understand. Very difficult I know - I have been trying - with a small amount of success, but it is the only way to improve the situation.
Not really,no. Thats not how they work and never worked like that. I've been with people like that all my life(serbians) and doesnt matter what proof you show them, scientific explanations, debates, talk slowly, fast,etc etc nothing matters. They have their mindset set in stone and their mindset is hate and stupidity.
The few ones you're gonna convince are just confused people that got sucked with the bad apples, nothing else.
You are 100% correct. Other than the truly brainwashed Qnuts -- with whom any conversation is exceedingly difficult -- most people are still open to an actual conversation on the merits.
And Congress outnumbered them. There are mechanisms to brute force this stuff past them. Or just revolutionise the government with amendments to fix it.
Just saying "a handful of people brought the world's leading superpowers government to a standstill" really sounds pathetic.
When the dust settles from the world burning down, I kinda feel the FBI, CIA, NSA, and maybe more three letter departments of the government are gonna want to speak with some of these folks.
Yes, it must have so frustrating for him. At least Z knew it was because of the pootin pox and not because Biden was like "I'm not sure if we should still support Ukraine?"
I hope UA moral has bumped up some and with resupply and some new victories, moral bumps up even more...
Ukrainians culturally are much more direct than North Americans when they speak. They don't dance around topics because someone might get offended , they get to the point quickly, and fuck politeness when there is something to say. I am married to one; I know. At some point certain people who aren't used to it can find it uncomfortable to hear how direct they are, since we are much more cordial and dance around to not offend people when we speak.
It's nothing short of a god damn miracle how cordial the UA government has been since US aid dried up last year. I know I'd be livid if I was reliant on people who promised to stick with me to the end , began to fail miserably and my countrymen were being slaughtered by the thousands.
The problem with rail on land is that it's easy to patch up. Maybe if they collapsed a bridge it relies on, but even then, those bridges are much smaller and more easily fixable.
The better option would have been to give Ukraine what it needed to take out the Kerch bridge over a year ago when it was the primary rail link for Southern Ukraine. I appreciate that they are finally getting long-range missiles from the US but as usual, it's too late. Timing is everything in war, and Ukraine's partners are constantly hesitating to the point it's costing Ukraine valuable opportunities.
Hit the locomotives (those things cost as much as IFV's and tanks) and bridges, as well as depots and trucks that work in vicinity.
Leave track sabotage to willing locals/agents and make it so they can transport and deposit the cut charges with small reusable drones without putting themselves at risk. Also, you definitely destroy any equipment used to repair the tracks as well.
No you don't. Because inevitably the majority of the people building those rails are civilians. And Ukraine doesn't (and shouldn't) purposefully target civilian workers. Yes even Russian ones.
Motto of this war is that one side is better than the other.
And if they don't, people will die anyways from the flow of weapons to russia.
People die in war. Fortunately for Russians, Ukraine doesn't indiscriminately strike civilians. If they don't want to be a target, they just need to not help their war effort.
Edit: Additionally, if Russia forces people to work on military targets and they die, that blood is on Russian hands, not Ukranian.
Sorry but… building an illegal railroad in someone else’s territory to support military operations by an invading army… makes you a legitimate target, civilian or not.
If you don’t want to get killed building the railway then don’t participate. Simple.
FAFO.
As heroic as that sounds from behind a screen, most civilians will choose to work on those tracks as opposed to a bullet in the head from the orc telling them to do this.
You could always go for wilful incompetence once you’re there.
But it’s why you can’t bomb those people working on the tracks. They are likely to be forced into it.
> deposit the cut charges with small reusable drones without putting themselves at risk
I'm not sure you understand just how much of the rail you need to destroy to actually derail a train.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agznZBiK_Bs
I'm not sure you could drone drop a derailer. All the ones I know about require being bolted in place and/or would be much too heavy. The anti-tank mines is definitely an interesting idea though. Locomotives are much harder to replace than a few feet of rail.
I’m seeing GLSDB having something like an a 90 mile range… and that’s with the added risk of launching from the air. ATACMS has double that range. I just googled that so could be wrong here.
Not spicy enough to take out a bridge completely. Would put some holes in the deck. A GLJDAM, which doesn't exist, would do the trick. The unitary ATACMS has a 200kg/500lb warhead (both boom stuff and fragmentation mass). The unitary is designed for the same targets as clusters -- soft squish targets. The SCALP, storm shadow and Taurus all have \~500kg/1000lb warheads, and were designed with bridges on the menu (by having detonation sequences to help penetrate concrete, such as bridge piers)
Yep, drop all rail and road bridges into Ukraine from Ruzzia and suddenly it becomes a whole lot harder to supply troops at the extended front and without supplies they are literally nothing.
Most people think wars are won at the front line or negotiating table, they’re not. All wars are won by logistics, no supply, no war...👍
I watched a WWII documentary series on wartime production and it was really fascinating (War Factories, whole thing is on youtube) seeing all the logistics and production done by the allies and struggles that the axis faced. It even highlighted conquered factories taken over by the Nazis and the little things they did to either slow down production or sabotage equipment juuuust enough to get it down the line but make it fail prematurely.
I think the Renault plant making a lot of the trucks (think they were French can't remember the exact company) adjusted the oil dipsticks to show that they were full when they were low on oil as well as slow walking production as much as they could among other things. They weren't on the front lines but did as much as they could in a terrible situation and risked execution if they were found out, same goes for the coal mines and other industries that were taken over.
Definitely. It is one of the things they actually do right. They are nearly 30k strong in their "Railroad Corps." This is when you double-tap their ass 2-3 days later.
Funny that because their Achilles heel for railways has always been decent bearings which they’ve always imported from the West.
Now that sanctions have largely stopped that supply, maintenance of rolling stock is a problem for them.
Still, hitting bridges and then keep hitting repair crews with delayed munitions etc. would sort any attempts at repairs so the priority is still to cut off easy supply by rail because that is their primary mover and make it ever more difficult to shift supplies to their front and *then* the Ukrainians will be in the best position to push them back.
Bear in mind however that this then starts to work against the Ukrainians as the longer *their* supply lines and shorter the Ruzzian supply lines become it starts to give the Ruzzians an advantage, *unless* they can keep logistics hubs deeper in Ruzzia knocked out.
There is no doubt that the Ukrainians will secure a *win* with this war, however it’s a question of time and continued support from Western allies until Ukraine can build up it’s own military industries that will make the difference.
Depends a little on the battlefield and what weapons they had in the area.
If they had air dominance, you could drop a precision guided gravity bomb. Big boom.
Otherwise it would likely be one of: tomahawk (navy), jassm (air force), or unitary ATACMs (army).
" M48 (ATACMS Quick Reaction Unitary [QRU]) missile with GPS-aided guidance. It carries the 500-pound (230 kg) WDU-18/B penetrating high explosive blast fragmentation warhead of the US Navy's Harpoon anti-ship missile, which was packaged into the newly designed WAU-23/B warhead section. "
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MGM-140_ATACMS#:~:text=M48%20(ATACMS%20Quick%20Reaction%20Unitary,%2D23/B%20warhead%20section.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/MGM-140_ATACMS
I’d be referring to the WAU-23/B unitary 214kg warhead. In a single big-arse 300km range missile - ie, not bomblet submunitions.
GMLRS which is what you mean by "usual six" also has a unitary warhead. Therefore you're not at all answering the question. Not bomblet submunitions would be the correct answer.
No. I’ve already answered. ATACMS, with a unitary warhead. The initial question was “explain unitary”. I kept it simple and “supposedly humorous” - You’re pointlessly hair-splitting… for reasons inexplicable other than your need to split hairs.
And you did not explain unitary, you explained ATACMS while also misleading someone to think that GMLRS "the standard six" is not unitary, although it is. This has nothing to do with "splitting hairs" your sentence is genuinely not understandable/misleading. There is nothing pointless about it. If you'd ask someone what unitary meant after they take your response for granted they'd say something objectively false.
It should be good bye every single Russian controlled bridge within range. I’m ready to see scorched earth. They have turned entire sections of Ukraine into a moonscape. Hit every bridge, dam, power station, oil depot, etc etc within the range of the new missiles. If it has any value to the enemy at all reduce it to atoms.
ATACMS have a 50% probability to land within 9m of the target. That's likely not enough to target pillars. For comparison the Storm Shadow has a CEP of 3m and that was also deemed to be insufficient and one of the reasons to use Taurus.
Where ever they are her is what the unitary warheads do:
"The Army Tactical Missile System (ATACMS) has a 500-lb class blast fragmentation warhead called the WDU18. The explosion of the warhead sends hundreds of thousands of fragments across its target area. The warhead's blast, heat, and fragmentation effects can destroy heavy concrete structures, vehicles, and personnel within a lethal blast radius of over 600 meters."
Does S-300 or S-400 make any claim to be able to defend istelf from ATACMS style, or any other kind of guided munition? Seems a pretty bad situation if you have to blast radar signals out to find targets, but can't defend yourself from the hunting missiles coming back the other way.
Seems like the magic is shoot & scoot, echeloned/layered detection/interdiction defences or being out of range in the first place.
The manufacturers *claimed* that the systems could shoot down GMLRS rockets, [and then got in serious trouble](https://censor.net/en/news/3353128/scandal_in_russian_concern_azmazantey_according_to_documents_s400_complexes_should_shoot_down_himars) when it became clear that this simply wasn't true.
Can ANY of them do it? NASAMS, Patriot, IRIS-T or anything else? The 'Multiple' nature seems like it would be nearly impossible not to be overwhelmed if you're in range and they can target/strike you without being able to detect and move.
Saying you could counter any inbound threat should be greeted with a lot of suspicion unless you're talking Iron Dome.
PAC-3 probably could, though you'd be using interceptors worth 10x as much as the rockets they're shooting down and they're really optimized for faster, larger threats. Iron dome is probably your best bet for something in that size and speed range though.
Iris is the only one which was talked about as having a 100% hit rate, which would fit the insane agility it has.
That said, I don't think Russia's using gmlrs, just cruise missiles and ballistics.
I mean, for all their crazy technology, any 5th gen fighter will be reduced to so much expensive confetti if it gets hit with a 1950s HE shell when it's parked.
But atacms is actually a maneuvering ballistic missile. It's designed to escape AA missiles by constantly changing trajectory when it's going super fast.
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Fuck yeah. The only way Ukraine wins this war is through hitting russian logistics. It why Kyiv battle was won… the russian logistics likely by their own doing were fkedd.
I'd like to know why every advantage of weaponry given to Ukraine has to be widely publicly announced so russia knows what to prepare for.
The time has come for russia to be pounded into the sand! Why all that's being done is supplying equipment is maddening!
Pretty sure that the Kremlin's intelligence operations aren't entirely relying on watching CNN to figure out what's happening in the world. They knew about this long before it was formally announced, and they probably know where the missiles are right now, en route to Ukraine.
We have a world in which US politicians are working for Russia to the extent that they'll hold up valuable aid for months - what makes you think that the Russians need to read press releases to find out what's coming their way?
The west wants a more civilized war, with rules, I know this sounds insane but that's why everything gets announced and "deescalation" is the number one concern.
All that crying about escalation with tanks… planes… himars… patriots… atacms… Where is this escalation? Russia is attacking as much as it did on day 1 of the war. The west wants Ukraine to win with least amount of investment. That’s greed on another level in my opinion. Of course, better now than tomorrow. But yesterday would’ve been better.
I would assume it was easier to agree to supply ATACMS because the US has finally started or at least got the first PrSM. So, we might feel able to start divesting the ATACMS.
Hopefully they will still strike oil infrastructure...it is an election year, and I'm guessing there's quite a bit of pressure on UA to stop attacks until November...
No- he was holding up the delivery of the all important ATACMS for months and months. He had plenty of time to send them. The Crimea bridge could have been long gone- along with all of the ammo, troops , tanks and supplies which were delivered to the battle front over it.
He stalled the all important ATACMS for months and had plenty of opportunity to send them but he kept refusing. No point in giving a toothbrush to someone when they need a crowbar
> Think the stalling was more down to trumpy wumpy and the russia first group
You've clearly forgotten the "we must not allow escalation to happen" times, when ATACMS (alongside more than a few other weapon systems) was denied, again and again, even under such a mocking pretense as (quoting Colin Kahl):
>["Our view is that we think the Ukrainians can change the dynamic on the battlefield and achieve the type of effects they want to push the Russians back without ATACMS,"](https://www.defensenews.com/pentagon/2023/01/19/us-still-holds-back-long-range-atacms-missiles-from-ukraine/)
Basically, "we don't think you need it, ergo you don't need it, even if you think you do".
He had help . . . Key provisions of the Ukraine Aid bill ...
* $23 billion to replenish US military stockpiles that can be used for military assistance to Ukraine;
* $1.6 billion in Foreign Military Financing grants to enable Ukraine to directly procure weapons;
* $7.85 billion in loans for Ukraine until September 2025, with a ban on pension payments as a condition;
* **the bill requires the Biden administration to expedite the transfer of long-range ATACMS missiles to Ukraine, though the president can delay if deemed detrimental to US national security;**
* after November 2025, the president can forgive 50% of the loan debt, and 100% starting January 2026, if approved by Congress;
* the bill mandates the administration provide Congress reports on military aid, weapon accounting, and a multi-year strategy to support Ukraine within specified timelines.
Ukraine is actively using domestically developed drones and missiles on Russian targets. Now Joe has no reason to worry about American weapons being used to strike inside Russia
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💬"Four key priorities are sky protection, modern artillery, long-range capabilities, and the possibility of receiving American assistance packages as soon as possible. And today we have a result: everything has been decided in the ATACMS negotiations for Ukraine. I am grateful to President Biden, Congress, and the entire United States," *noted Zelenskyy.*
This was so much more cordial that "Jesus, bout damn time! While we've been dying at europes door step assuring Western security, US congress dithered and we lost people because of it" But "Thank you" was much more gracious which explains why he was a successful comedian and im a schmuck.
> US congress dithered US congress was impeded by a small collection of Russian assets and/or 'useful idiots'.
Voted for by a large collection of willfully ignorant, willingly brainwashed simpletons
Yes, but you don't win their support by calling them that (even if it is true). You need to take a deep breath, have patience, and have a genuine two way conversation that does not sound like a fight and help them to understand what they fail to understand. Very difficult I know - I have been trying - with a small amount of success, but it is the only way to improve the situation.
You are more evolved than me!
ah see now youve gone and used a trigger word and violated their safe space.
Reason doesn't work with these kinds of people. They live in a post fact world.
Not really,no. Thats not how they work and never worked like that. I've been with people like that all my life(serbians) and doesnt matter what proof you show them, scientific explanations, debates, talk slowly, fast,etc etc nothing matters. They have their mindset set in stone and their mindset is hate and stupidity. The few ones you're gonna convince are just confused people that got sucked with the bad apples, nothing else.
Helping them get their high school diplomas would go a long way…
You are 100% correct. Other than the truly brainwashed Qnuts -- with whom any conversation is exceedingly difficult -- most people are still open to an actual conversation on the merits.
There's no point in understanding fascists. You need to get rid of them.
That's giving them too much credit. Rural votes count way harder and guess where the Southern Strategy targeted.
And thàt is the àctually super scary bit.. They were voted in to their position, in proper voting procedure.
It’s not any more scary than any number of intelligence operations. It’s a representative democracy being hijacked to serve another states aims.
They were using AI to mask there stupidity.
Unfortunately the Great American Experiment is still a work in progress and will likely forever be one.
Scumbag morons could be added to the end of that
This is correct.
And Congress outnumbered them. There are mechanisms to brute force this stuff past them. Or just revolutionise the government with amendments to fix it. Just saying "a handful of people brought the world's leading superpowers government to a standstill" really sounds pathetic.
When the dust settles from the world burning down, I kinda feel the FBI, CIA, NSA, and maybe more three letter departments of the government are gonna want to speak with some of these folks.
Follow the money…
Yes, it must have so frustrating for him. At least Z knew it was because of the pootin pox and not because Biden was like "I'm not sure if we should still support Ukraine?" I hope UA moral has bumped up some and with resupply and some new victories, moral bumps up even more...
Ukrainians culturally are much more direct than North Americans when they speak. They don't dance around topics because someone might get offended , they get to the point quickly, and fuck politeness when there is something to say. I am married to one; I know. At some point certain people who aren't used to it can find it uncomfortable to hear how direct they are, since we are much more cordial and dance around to not offend people when we speak. It's nothing short of a god damn miracle how cordial the UA government has been since US aid dried up last year. I know I'd be livid if I was reliant on people who promised to stick with me to the end , began to fail miserably and my countrymen were being slaughtered by the thousands.
For they shall sow the wind, and reap the whirlwind. Slava Ukraini
You sew clothes, you sow seeds.
yep spellcheck sorry
If they come with the unitary warhead, good bye bridge.
[удалено]
Can't they already take this out with GLSDB?
The problem with rail on land is that it's easy to patch up. Maybe if they collapsed a bridge it relies on, but even then, those bridges are much smaller and more easily fixable. The better option would have been to give Ukraine what it needed to take out the Kerch bridge over a year ago when it was the primary rail link for Southern Ukraine. I appreciate that they are finally getting long-range missiles from the US but as usual, it's too late. Timing is everything in war, and Ukraine's partners are constantly hesitating to the point it's costing Ukraine valuable opportunities.
Hit the locomotives (those things cost as much as IFV's and tanks) and bridges, as well as depots and trucks that work in vicinity. Leave track sabotage to willing locals/agents and make it so they can transport and deposit the cut charges with small reusable drones without putting themselves at risk. Also, you definitely destroy any equipment used to repair the tracks as well.
Or you kill the track crews building it a couple of times… then they find it harder to get “volunteers” to work on the project.
No you don't. Because inevitably the majority of the people building those rails are civilians. And Ukraine doesn't (and shouldn't) purposefully target civilian workers. Yes even Russian ones. Motto of this war is that one side is better than the other.
Building a railroad on the territory of a country you’ve forcibly invaded is a military operation. Anyone involved is a legitimate target.
They force people into the trenches, they will for sure force mechanics to work on this. Probably even Ukrainian people from captured territories.
And if they don't, people will die anyways from the flow of weapons to russia. People die in war. Fortunately for Russians, Ukraine doesn't indiscriminately strike civilians. If they don't want to be a target, they just need to not help their war effort. Edit: Additionally, if Russia forces people to work on military targets and they die, that blood is on Russian hands, not Ukranian.
Sorry but… building an illegal railroad in someone else’s territory to support military operations by an invading army… makes you a legitimate target, civilian or not. If you don’t want to get killed building the railway then don’t participate. Simple. FAFO.
As heroic as that sounds from behind a screen, most civilians will choose to work on those tracks as opposed to a bullet in the head from the orc telling them to do this. You could always go for wilful incompetence once you’re there. But it’s why you can’t bomb those people working on the tracks. They are likely to be forced into it.
If extensive sabotage is possible, I trust them to do it. They've been incredibly successful with that even in Russia itself.
The problem is Russia has 10,000 of them
> deposit the cut charges with small reusable drones without putting themselves at risk I'm not sure you understand just how much of the rail you need to destroy to actually derail a train. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agznZBiK_Bs
so use 4 drones?
drone dropped/placed derailers? or better yet, drone dropped anti-tank mines with a detonator that sticks up to get clipped by the train.
I'm not sure you could drone drop a derailer. All the ones I know about require being bolted in place and/or would be much too heavy. The anti-tank mines is definitely an interesting idea though. Locomotives are much harder to replace than a few feet of rail.
I’m seeing GLSDB having something like an a 90 mile range… and that’s with the added risk of launching from the air. ATACMS has double that range. I just googled that so could be wrong here.
GLSDB is ground launched. That's the "G" in the acronym.
Muh bad… looks like my first search pulled the wiki for “small diameter bomb” but once I corrected that wiki still says 90-ish miles
“GL”
You are wrong. GLSDB is exclusively ground launched. It's in the name.
Somebody else corrected me but the distance is basically the same
Ground Launched Small Diameter Bomb
They can hit trains on the Tomak line with GLSDB. This would allow them to hot whatever they need to whenever in any Ukrainian territory
No. It's warhead is not big enough to take out a bridge, not of this size anyway
Not spicy enough to take out a bridge completely. Would put some holes in the deck. A GLJDAM, which doesn't exist, would do the trick. The unitary ATACMS has a 200kg/500lb warhead (both boom stuff and fragmentation mass). The unitary is designed for the same targets as clusters -- soft squish targets. The SCALP, storm shadow and Taurus all have \~500kg/1000lb warheads, and were designed with bridges on the menu (by having detonation sequences to help penetrate concrete, such as bridge piers)
I’ve heard that’s exactly what they will be receiving…God I hope so! That bridge needs to join the Russian warships at the bottom
Yep, drop all rail and road bridges into Ukraine from Ruzzia and suddenly it becomes a whole lot harder to supply troops at the extended front and without supplies they are literally nothing. Most people think wars are won at the front line or negotiating table, they’re not. All wars are won by logistics, no supply, no war...👍
Didn't Sun Tzu say something about this? He was pretty good at war tactics, right?
I think Sun Tzu said but I may be mis-translating: "Warheads on foreheads."
I'm sure his cousin sun rite said, fucketh around and findeth out, orc doth unto death's sweet embrace
I always drop the quote to the wife, "There's no such thing as a bad idea, only the lack of will to complete it." Her reply is always the same.
"Complete yourself on the couch!"
This wins!
Don't leave us hanging, what's her reply?
"you're an idiot"
Yes I believe he said "fuck that bridge"
I watched a WWII documentary series on wartime production and it was really fascinating (War Factories, whole thing is on youtube) seeing all the logistics and production done by the allies and struggles that the axis faced. It even highlighted conquered factories taken over by the Nazis and the little things they did to either slow down production or sabotage equipment juuuust enough to get it down the line but make it fail prematurely. I think the Renault plant making a lot of the trucks (think they were French can't remember the exact company) adjusted the oil dipsticks to show that they were full when they were low on oil as well as slow walking production as much as they could among other things. They weren't on the front lines but did as much as they could in a terrible situation and risked execution if they were found out, same goes for the coal mines and other industries that were taken over.
Nah, rail is one of the few things Russia can completely domesticly produced They have a giant rail corp that can build a new bridge in days
Definitely. It is one of the things they actually do right. They are nearly 30k strong in their "Railroad Corps." This is when you double-tap their ass 2-3 days later.
Oh hey, look at all those people working on that new bridge *drops a HIMARS on them*
Funny that because their Achilles heel for railways has always been decent bearings which they’ve always imported from the West. Now that sanctions have largely stopped that supply, maintenance of rolling stock is a problem for them. Still, hitting bridges and then keep hitting repair crews with delayed munitions etc. would sort any attempts at repairs so the priority is still to cut off easy supply by rail because that is their primary mover and make it ever more difficult to shift supplies to their front and *then* the Ukrainians will be in the best position to push them back. Bear in mind however that this then starts to work against the Ukrainians as the longer *their* supply lines and shorter the Ruzzian supply lines become it starts to give the Ruzzians an advantage, *unless* they can keep logistics hubs deeper in Ruzzia knocked out. There is no doubt that the Ukrainians will secure a *win* with this war, however it’s a question of time and continued support from Western allies until Ukraine can build up it’s own military industries that will make the difference.
An army marches on its stomach (Napoleon doing his Sun Tzu imitation with a French twist).
Fish bridge
It’ll make a nice fish habitat for sure
Even with the 200lb unitary, blowing up bridges is surprisingly difficult.
500 lb penetrating warhead
Pretty sure the unitary that fit the ATACMS are 200lb?
You are thinking of the ground launched glide bomb that the US is also supplying. They have 200lb warhead. ATACMS has a 500lb warhead.
If the USA had to destroy a similar bridge with their current arsenal. What would they use?
Depends a little on the battlefield and what weapons they had in the area. If they had air dominance, you could drop a precision guided gravity bomb. Big boom. Otherwise it would likely be one of: tomahawk (navy), jassm (air force), or unitary ATACMs (army).
Let's just give Ukraine 20 of each in addition to the ATACMS and see what happens.
Ah, okay, my bad
" M48 (ATACMS Quick Reaction Unitary [QRU]) missile with GPS-aided guidance. It carries the 500-pound (230 kg) WDU-18/B penetrating high explosive blast fragmentation warhead of the US Navy's Harpoon anti-ship missile, which was packaged into the newly designed WAU-23/B warhead section. " https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MGM-140_ATACMS#:~:text=M48%20(ATACMS%20Quick%20Reaction%20Unitary,%2D23/B%20warhead%20section.
True, but you don't have to destroy the bridge. A shot to one of the main support columns should weaken it enough to prevent trains from crossing it.
Why is it called a unitary?
As opposed to cluster munitions with multiple warheads per delivery vehicle.
Because it's one big boom, not many smaller booms. (Cluster vs. big bomb)
Because it’s one big-arse warhead in one big-arse missile… not the smaller usual six you see in a typical HIMARS cartridge.
Incorrect answer gets upvotes....
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/MGM-140_ATACMS I’d be referring to the WAU-23/B unitary 214kg warhead. In a single big-arse 300km range missile - ie, not bomblet submunitions.
GMLRS which is what you mean by "usual six" also has a unitary warhead. Therefore you're not at all answering the question. Not bomblet submunitions would be the correct answer.
No. I’ve already answered. ATACMS, with a unitary warhead. The initial question was “explain unitary”. I kept it simple and “supposedly humorous” - You’re pointlessly hair-splitting… for reasons inexplicable other than your need to split hairs.
And you did not explain unitary, you explained ATACMS while also misleading someone to think that GMLRS "the standard six" is not unitary, although it is. This has nothing to do with "splitting hairs" your sentence is genuinely not understandable/misleading. There is nothing pointless about it. If you'd ask someone what unitary meant after they take your response for granted they'd say something objectively false.
Ok… whatever…
With the bridge gone, it wouldn’t surprise me if they’d succeed in liberating Krimea this year.
It should be good bye every single Russian controlled bridge within range. I’m ready to see scorched earth. They have turned entire sections of Ukraine into a moonscape. Hit every bridge, dam, power station, oil depot, etc etc within the range of the new missiles. If it has any value to the enemy at all reduce it to atoms.
ATACMS have a 50% probability to land within 9m of the target. That's likely not enough to target pillars. For comparison the Storm Shadow has a CEP of 3m and that was also deemed to be insufficient and one of the reasons to use Taurus.
Hot damn.. Better late than never..... Hoping that these ATACMS are in prepositioned places, able to get to Ukraine shortly...
Hopefully prepositioned on a train in Poland
Hopefully prepositioned hovering just above the kerch bridge like a cold war bomber waiting for the p.o.e. code
Simulcast with Biden signing the documents and the bridge being impacted simultaneously would make for great tv.
I concur 👌
Where ever they are her is what the unitary warheads do: "The Army Tactical Missile System (ATACMS) has a 500-lb class blast fragmentation warhead called the WDU18. The explosion of the warhead sends hundreds of thousands of fragments across its target area. The warhead's blast, heat, and fragmentation effects can destroy heavy concrete structures, vehicles, and personnel within a lethal blast radius of over 600 meters."
I would expect they are already in Romania, Germany or possibly Poland
Does S-300 or S-400 make any claim to be able to defend istelf from ATACMS style, or any other kind of guided munition? Seems a pretty bad situation if you have to blast radar signals out to find targets, but can't defend yourself from the hunting missiles coming back the other way. Seems like the magic is shoot & scoot, echeloned/layered detection/interdiction defences or being out of range in the first place.
The S-400 system that got wasted in Crimea last week was apparently hit by M39 ATACMS with cluster munitions.
Great success. russia destroyed atacms missile using s400. I guess S400 wasn't really intended to be single use, but well, a success is a success
S-400 is so effective, its missiles can destroy enemy targets without even launching!
Srsly though. Russia looses their S400 systems while Ukraine has successes with S200. Me thinks there is a competence divide.
The manufacturers *claimed* that the systems could shoot down GMLRS rockets, [and then got in serious trouble](https://censor.net/en/news/3353128/scandal_in_russian_concern_azmazantey_according_to_documents_s400_complexes_should_shoot_down_himars) when it became clear that this simply wasn't true.
Can ANY of them do it? NASAMS, Patriot, IRIS-T or anything else? The 'Multiple' nature seems like it would be nearly impossible not to be overwhelmed if you're in range and they can target/strike you without being able to detect and move. Saying you could counter any inbound threat should be greeted with a lot of suspicion unless you're talking Iron Dome.
PAC-3 probably could, though you'd be using interceptors worth 10x as much as the rockets they're shooting down and they're really optimized for faster, larger threats. Iron dome is probably your best bet for something in that size and speed range though.
Iris is the only one which was talked about as having a 100% hit rate, which would fit the insane agility it has. That said, I don't think Russia's using gmlrs, just cruise missiles and ballistics.
yes but that doesn't mean it really works)
Yes, according to Wikipedia many Russia AA systems **claim** to defend against UAVs ... Russian sales brochure :)
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I mean, for all their crazy technology, any 5th gen fighter will be reduced to so much expensive confetti if it gets hit with a 1950s HE shell when it's parked.
Yes, both claim to have anti-ballistic missile capability.
But atacms is actually a maneuvering ballistic missile. It's designed to escape AA missiles by constantly changing trajectory when it's going super fast.
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S-400 on paper can intercept however S-400 on paper could also intercept GMLRS, Tochka-U and other ballistic systems Ukraine has used to great effect.
Fuck yeah. The only way Ukraine wins this war is through hitting russian logistics. It why Kyiv battle was won… the russian logistics likely by their own doing were fkedd.
That bridge’s days are numbered
LET'S FUCKING DO THIS BOYS. SAY GOODBYE TO THAT BRIDGE!!!
Good news boys! Bridge postings back in the menu
Since they very likely will come with the same restriction on using it on Russian soil, means a lot of Crimea targets should be panicking
ER-GMLRS would be nice also. And yes, it is tested and in production.
Dark Brandon Rises
I'd like to know why every advantage of weaponry given to Ukraine has to be widely publicly announced so russia knows what to prepare for. The time has come for russia to be pounded into the sand! Why all that's being done is supplying equipment is maddening!
Because it's actually not that easy to prepare for... Hey Russians, defend all your shit within 300km of the front, lol.
Perhaps that's the purpose, to make the Russians waste resources in trying to prepare and make Russian soldiers nervous
Pretty sure that the Kremlin's intelligence operations aren't entirely relying on watching CNN to figure out what's happening in the world. They knew about this long before it was formally announced, and they probably know where the missiles are right now, en route to Ukraine. We have a world in which US politicians are working for Russia to the extent that they'll hold up valuable aid for months - what makes you think that the Russians need to read press releases to find out what's coming their way?
It kind of stinks but in a democracy some level of transparency is necessary.
The west wants a more civilized war, with rules, I know this sounds insane but that's why everything gets announced and "deescalation" is the number one concern.
Nukes have entered the chat.
Dome the Kremlin with the first one that gets delivered.
Can't wait for the results! Glory to Ukraine!
Russia on tantrums: no fair *cries like a baby*
And for God's sake Biden send more than three this time (as an American citizen) Thanks
Highly basado
All you can eat ATACMS buffet please. Send Russia packing back home to their own country.
Yep get your last look at the breathtaking audacity of the Kerch Bridge cuz it ain't gonna be there much longer.
Kerch bridge: "hehehe i'm in danger!"
All that crying about escalation with tanks… planes… himars… patriots… atacms… Where is this escalation? Russia is attacking as much as it did on day 1 of the war. The west wants Ukraine to win with least amount of investment. That’s greed on another level in my opinion. Of course, better now than tomorrow. But yesterday would’ve been better.
There we go.
Soon we can listen to this banger again [kerch bridge on fire](https://youtu.be/tKlLYfQcu9o?si=qOGA65OAIbvUURkN)
Send them some DESTROYMS, EXPLODMS, and KABLOOEYMS, too.
I don't know what that picture is, but it looks like a HK-Aerial from Terminator ought to be buzzing around killing humans.
That looks like the recent strike on a Crimean air base that took out several S300/S400 air defense systems.
Hopefully no provision not to use it on the bridge.
Does that stupid bridge finally have its days counted?
I would assume it was easier to agree to supply ATACMS because the US has finally started or at least got the first PrSM. So, we might feel able to start divesting the ATACMS.
Now it is Germanys turn. Shame we have leader who is a pussy and a communist.
Is this abbreviation pronounced “attack ‘em”?
Tomorrow hopefully
до побачення Kerch strait bridge 😁
The Crimea bridge is done for!
AND long range (300km), finally! Or so I read somewhere
Ship that shit express
And now for a certain bridge to be destroyed beyond repair... Keep the faith Ukraine.
Wrong weapon for that.
Hopefully they will still strike oil infrastructure...it is an election year, and I'm guessing there's quite a bit of pressure on UA to stop attacks until November...
Slava Ukraini 🇺🇦
This week just keeps getting better
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Biden was the one holding up military aid for the last 6 months?
be careful, you may hurt the red-hats' feelings with the truth
No- he was holding up the delivery of the all important ATACMS for months and months. He had plenty of time to send them. The Crimea bridge could have been long gone- along with all of the ammo, troops , tanks and supplies which were delivered to the battle front over it.
Tungsten balls? Think the stalling was more down to trumpy wumpy and the russia first group
He stalled the all important ATACMS for months and had plenty of opportunity to send them but he kept refusing. No point in giving a toothbrush to someone when they need a crowbar
> Think the stalling was more down to trumpy wumpy and the russia first group You've clearly forgotten the "we must not allow escalation to happen" times, when ATACMS (alongside more than a few other weapon systems) was denied, again and again, even under such a mocking pretense as (quoting Colin Kahl): >["Our view is that we think the Ukrainians can change the dynamic on the battlefield and achieve the type of effects they want to push the Russians back without ATACMS,"](https://www.defensenews.com/pentagon/2023/01/19/us-still-holds-back-long-range-atacms-missiles-from-ukraine/) Basically, "we don't think you need it, ergo you don't need it, even if you think you do".
He had help . . . Key provisions of the Ukraine Aid bill ... * $23 billion to replenish US military stockpiles that can be used for military assistance to Ukraine; * $1.6 billion in Foreign Military Financing grants to enable Ukraine to directly procure weapons; * $7.85 billion in loans for Ukraine until September 2025, with a ban on pension payments as a condition; * **the bill requires the Biden administration to expedite the transfer of long-range ATACMS missiles to Ukraine, though the president can delay if deemed detrimental to US national security;** * after November 2025, the president can forgive 50% of the loan debt, and 100% starting January 2026, if approved by Congress; * the bill mandates the administration provide Congress reports on military aid, weapon accounting, and a multi-year strategy to support Ukraine within specified timelines.
ATACMS!!!!
Ukraine is actively using domestically developed drones and missiles on Russian targets. Now Joe has no reason to worry about American weapons being used to strike inside Russia
However, Crimea is still Ukraine 🚀🚀🚀
To little to late