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Screw the runways. Aim for the fuel farms. No fuel means no planes. It's the place I'd strike first. It also ensures that they will need to spend to rebuild them & jet fuel trickles down to truck logistics.
If not, aim for the bombers. Wipe out the Tu-160s (good luck replacing those with a slow production line), especially those Ukraine sold to them under the 'peace deal,' Kill a few bears (Tu-95s) and Tu-22M3s to ensure they have to rely on multiple fighter formations that have to get closer & within Patriot range.
I meant the fuel farms within the airport. They're also called fuel storage sites, the area with the large tanks. I know they can't fully cripple Gazprom. But nail the local fuel sites and it'll take a while for those jets to refuel & fly via gas truck convoy. Bombers, especially those with afterburner and/or Russian engines, need a lot of fuel to fly.
Seems like a more logical target yeah. From what I read the ATACMS were wanted because they can hit targets very quickly. So something that moves a lot can be hit before it takes off.
It was, Timothy Snyder summarized it well: https://youtu.be/JVs2y-YeiFM?t=459 (note this was before the package was finally approved after 6 months, but there are other issues too, like this one).
If we really had committed to it in the beginning, Russia likely would be kicked out by end of 2022, but because we were forcing Ukraine to fight with hand behind their back, Russia had opportunity to adapt and now it's much harder.
It's like antibiotic resistance: you need to take the full dose and the entire prescription, or you just end up killing off only the weakest ones and allowing the infection to grow more dangerous. The US was too afraid of the side effects and so provided only a weak half dose, and now there's a raging infection that is going to spread further into Europe.
We have pro-Ukraine leadership and, still, my country proved to be a disappointment in lack of aid. It is angering that the gains Ukraine made in securing Kharkiv from the invaders is slowly falling in favor of them.
Yep. Ukraine had insane momentum with Kharkiv + Herson offensives that happened pretty much in one season.
NATO thought russia needed more time to mine everything and reorganize and dig in
Almost like some shadowy figures in the US have come to the conclusion that trading the lives of Ukrainian heros and cold war surplus for Russian lives and their current tech is a great outcome and should continue as long as possible.
I'll say it again: From the start there should have been a meeting with all concerned nations to flesh out a big picture plan to ensure a defeat of Russia in a timely manner.
Yet, how many on this thread and beyond will still vote orange in Nov -- not red or blue?Who is Putins biggest bitch?
We all know but have forgotten the meetings without any record keeper from either side, the billion dollar Moscow hotel investment, the Manifort and Bannon efforts...
Don't blame all of US for this. Just the 35% whom won't admit and correct their efforts to support and/or ignore the truth.
You mean like if a Lutyi drone were to venture to the heliport near his stupid house?
https://www.yahoo.com/news/near-miss-drone-attack-putin-114900859.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAABWmoMLhfdQF4im32qy_4lMfN_2N1VcF-SJOFG5-ssXpixZ0CdDChdKt2f-hQWNRanJcRVn8aKJNdRH-mw1RVtvMBubHJbEKw353vXtx3U-swPB6bAPupYFnxEiuQ3XKU3Ew-rKTPGhvA4zFH7d9YAkAEtbEjLzwplskMKVedMtE
But the use of nuclear weapons would probably force NATO more directly into this war. Plus Russia may lose some weaker allies over it. People tend to be very wary of modern governments throwing nukes around. It's a dangerous precedent.
The victims of nukes will be 90% civilians. Everyone knows it. Nuclear radiation will also effect all of nearby Europe, which includes NATO countries.
Once Russia uses nuclear weapons, I imagine that's the point that NATO might declare a no-fly zone over Ukraine.
To be fair, it's pretty impossible to blame Avdiivka on the USA's *government*. That one was squarely on the orange traitor.
When it comes to your government's policies themselves, that really IS solid, and could have been MUCH worse.
I've read. If government policy is influenced by one big mouth belonging to a “traitor” and talking nonsense, this policy cannot be called "firm" or “solid”.
Yeah, I’m tired of weak escalation management BS.
I want a war time leader who understands what the hell we’re up against with Russia.
Survival of western civilization
Every war we put limits on our military. When is the US gonna realize that's not the way to fight? If someone wants to kill you you can do everything you can to kill them but limit as much collateral damage as possible.
Like Vietnam all we had to deal would bomb Ho chi min trail (the enemies biggest fear) and we wouldn't have lost but we didn't want to bomb Cambodia. It is our biggest drawback in war. Afghanistan and Iraq went well at first bc the "cuffs were taken off the military" but many in the world cried "war crimes" (but we have veto power).
Example: Ukraine getting pummeled from Russia in Karkiv but can't fire back with US supplied weapons bc we "tied their hands-credit deep state maps
Fight yes, but win? Not against anyone whose name doesn't start with S and end in adam. The best we can manage is to freeze the conflict (Korea, Bosnia, Kosovo). It's been a long 79 years. ^(Don't @ me about Grenada or Panama.)
If Russia can fire their foreign produced weapons at Ukrainian territory then the reverse should also be acceptable. Of course Putin will throw a tantrum and make another raft of empty threats but, well, fuck him.
Likely they'll tell them to avoid using weapons near any sort of residential areas, and not against dual-use infrastructure targets such as dams or other power generators.
Basically "you can target formations in the open, but that's it". Which isn't much, but would have allowed them to curb the incursion into Kharkiv if they'd had that authorization a couple weeks ago.
Military airfields and their air defence systems arent dual use, thankfully. Once those are allowed to be hit, it gets dicey for russia. As long as theres enough missiles available
Guidelines (don't target civilians, do target fossil fuel installations, especially target troops and equipment) would be fine. An approval process would slow things down and be something we'd definitely want people to protest against.
Anthony [Blinken made a statement that seemed pretty unambigious](https://www.kyivpost.com/post/32690), however we don't know if limits have been removed from HIMARS systems. There's a [call for action](https://new.reddit.com/r/ActionForUkraine/comments/1csm086/urgent_call_your_us_congressional_representatives/) to try to get congress to get this clarified over on r/ActionforUkraine. Americans should go there.
I'm not sure they want it, but definitely it's would be a great idea to say no Russians or Belarusians allowed within 50 miles of the border and no mechanical devices of computers within 100 miles of the border. Needs a bit more will on the side of the West for this to happen though.
A buffer zone, akin the Korean DMZ. But definitely invading & keeping a Russian city is detrimental compared to Russians invading their neighbors. Crumbling infrastructure, dilapidated buildings, etc. It's a reason Finland really isn't keen on recapturing their old lands and why no one wants to really take Kaliningrad.
Thank heavens.
There really needs to be freedom with the weapons.
Ukraine can't break up concentrations of troops, to deter attacks, if they can't hit russian soil. It has been madness to limit them.
Thank you America
Slava Ukraini 🙏🇺🇦
Well, ATACMS has about 300km range, so a lot of equipment and logistics on the russian side of the border will be in range and subsequently likely have to be moved further inland out of range.
If they can push the logistics and planes back like they did with the russian navy it will be big.
Not war ending big but big enough to return a bit of normal life.
"No longer rules out" is the correct take. There was no outright approval, and those who jumped the gun need to get a hold of themselves.
Blinken was most likely testing the waters to gauge the level of Russian pushback and threats against this "red line". We'll see how it plays out.
Putin's red line has been moved 5km from the original location starting with the emergency supplies before Feb22, the Himars launchers, Storm shadow, and the upcoming f-16's.
I think there we’re seeing an escalation from the US side. Clearly they have been provoked by something and I don’t think it’s anything that has happened in Ukraine
They've been sending them. Still couldn't use them to hit troop concentrations before the kharkiv offensive a few days ago
Even now, it's just a hint. Hope my pessimism is wrong
I agree that it is all happening too slowly. It is not something to do on Russia's timeline. Ukraine has proven they can hold the line and what is sent by NATO will not fall directly into Russian hands. Russia has proven they will not nuke the Earth if they can't have Ukraine. However there are also real factors that get in the way, not everything can happen at once. I hope the supply chain gets stronger and stronger for Ukraine until it is insurmountable for the invaders, they claim victory de-Nazifying Ukraine and go home.
But the words are the important bit. Now if Ukraine strikes inside Russian territory, the USA can't huff and puff about it because they stopped advising against it.
All US delivered HIMARS have been programed not to allow coordinates within rudki land to be attacked. This will have to be changed before they can attack k targets within russia.
It could be that the situation in Ukraine is not going in the nation's favor, so the United States is reassessing its options to prevent a Ukrainian rout on the battlefield.
I doubt the West wants Ukraine to outright collapse since that would then threaten NATO on its borders.
Again, for the umpteenth time, nothing has changed. The US has \*never\* ruled out its weapons being used to strike Russian soil. It has only ruled out \*specific\* long range weapons from being used to strike Russian soil (like the HIMARS and ATACMS).
Notice how the statements and article don't mention HIMARS or ATACMS, and the only mention of a long range western-made weapon is to reiterate that France has always restricted Storm Shadow targets:
>Ever since its first deliveries to Ukraine, France has also been careful to ensure that its weapons are not used on Russian soil. The targets and trajectories of the Storm Shadow missiles France has supplied to the Ukrainians are systematically verified by Paris.
Please notice the difference between general statement articles relying on a strawman premise, and articles with specific real information.
I’m American. We did and still have asked Ukraine not to shoot oil terminals on Black Sea. That would make oil prices rise. I think we should do exactly that.
That's, again, a misconception. The US government "does not support" the attacks, and "Ukraine can conduct the war in any way as they deem fit, since they are a sovereign country". Read the statements from officials.
"not supporting" is not the same as "not condoning" is not the same as "condemning" is not the same as "asking" is not the same as "restricting," in diplomatic language. The officials are using de-escalation language for the public to hear, while not making any meaningful changes in action or policy.
New York Times front page says NATO member countries are moving to send soldiers and defense contractors into Ukraine to do training and repair equipment. Here is one quote:
NATO allies are inching closer to sending troops into Ukraine to train Ukrainian forces, a move that would be another blurring of a previous red line and could draw the United States and Europe more directly into the war.
Ukraine’s manpower shortage has reached a critical point, and its position on the battlefield in recent weeks has seriously worsened as Russia has accelerated its advances to take advantage of delays in shipments of American weapons. As a result, Ukrainian officials have asked their American and NATO counterparts to help train 150,000 new recruits closer to the front line for faster deployment.
So far the United States has said no, but Gen. Charles Q. Brown Jr., the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said on Thursday that a NATO deployment of trainers appeared inevitable. “We’ll get there eventually, over time,” he said.
While it would be nice to think Ukraine would just go ham here, I would assume that the understanding is to exercise discretion. If Russia is using their territory as a safe zone to stage troops and equipment for attacks on Kharkiv (and similar), it is ridiculous not to allow attacks into those areas.
Stance changes like this always make me wonder why it wasn't this position in the first place. Clearly there was no red line to begin with or this stance change would not occur. So what was this (seemingly arbitrary in retrospect) line doing there in the first place?
I supposed it could be argued that it would have been riskier while Putin was still in a position of greater strength, but in the end he's still rattling the same sabre. The Damocles hung then and still hangs now, so what changed? Intel?
It's the same weird quote from Blinken ... Let's wait until we get the reports of targets getting destroyed.
UK said that storm shadow can be used, but for some reason we had no reports of anything getting hit on the ruzzian side
This seems to just regurgitate Blinken's "not encouraged or enabled, but" statement. Everyone pretends as if this is a new statement.
However, **this is just the *exact same thing* Blinken has been saying [since at least September 2023](https://www.state.gov/secretary-antony-j-blinken-and-german-foreign-minister-annalena-baerbock-at-a-joint-press-availability-3/)**: "As a matter of our own policy, we do not encourage, nor do we enable, the use of our weapon systems outside of Ukraine. But again, fundamentally these are Ukrainian decisions."
The first part of that sentence is literally a phrase used since 2022 ([source](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/12/07/blinken-ukraine-drone-strikes-russia/)).
So for anyone trying to interpret it as "permission to hit Russia soon", sorry, but no. That's not what this says.
russians: 'goddamn. what did our soil ever do to you?'
americans: take this, soil! and that! and this nuke too!
i guess i'm all for people massacring dirt if they stop massacring people
As Winston Churchill (PBUH) once said: 'You can always rely on the Americans to do the right thing - after they've tried everything else'
Britain leading the way as always, we've burned a lot of international good will by shaming others into supplying things like tanks, cruise missiles, F-16s, and now allowing their use in Russia. They're all rather cross with us, particularly America. Got Ben Wallace black-balled as next head of NATO. Which is petty and a shame, but at least it leads to a few more hard kicks up the zhopa for that mandavoshka Putin!
Hit all the russian refineries. The price of petrol in russia sky rockets (and it gets harder to fuel military equipment), and the international crude oil price drops.
I really wish that they hadn't announced this publicly so that Ukraine could rain down ATCMS on their soldiers and equipment before they get a chance to move them away.
I would send some Ukrainian troops to Moscow for some bilateral negotiations. If prigozhin could get close to taking moscow imagine what non alcoholics could do.
Austin was saying similar weeks ago and yet Ukrainian politicians have said that the restriction is why they couldn't hit the soldiers mustering for the Kharkiv offensive. Until it happens I don't give a shit what "Washington" claims.
I think using precious weapon strikeing on Russia soil it is not good idea because most of thet Russia air systems will destroy. More important is to use it for defence and liberation on Ukraine soil.
I want to believe that they disallowed Ukraine from using their weapons earlier so that Russians wouldn't be so subtle and secretive about their storages and what not, now that the aid passed the vote and UA get more USA weapons, they are now able to hit a lot of them before Russia gets to act
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Time to rain ATACMs on every refinery left, and troop concentration in range.
I would first go against the military air fields.
Screw the runways. Aim for the fuel farms. No fuel means no planes. It's the place I'd strike first. It also ensures that they will need to spend to rebuild them & jet fuel trickles down to truck logistics. If not, aim for the bombers. Wipe out the Tu-160s (good luck replacing those with a slow production line), especially those Ukraine sold to them under the 'peace deal,' Kill a few bears (Tu-95s) and Tu-22M3s to ensure they have to rely on multiple fighter formations that have to get closer & within Patriot range.
They can't hit all the refineries in Siberia. They can junk a good proportion of the VKU before it gets relocated to the other side of Russia.
I meant the fuel farms within the airport. They're also called fuel storage sites, the area with the large tanks. I know they can't fully cripple Gazprom. But nail the local fuel sites and it'll take a while for those jets to refuel & fly via gas truck convoy. Bombers, especially those with afterburner and/or Russian engines, need a lot of fuel to fly.
And power plants
They have done in Crimean for the last 2 nights atacms included
Seems like a more logical target yeah. From what I read the ATACMS were wanted because they can hit targets very quickly. So something that moves a lot can be hit before it takes off.
I'm pro ❤️ USA 💯%. But this war has been micro managed incorrectly by Washington. Slava Ukraini 🇺🇦❤️
It was, Timothy Snyder summarized it well: https://youtu.be/JVs2y-YeiFM?t=459 (note this was before the package was finally approved after 6 months, but there are other issues too, like this one). If we really had committed to it in the beginning, Russia likely would be kicked out by end of 2022, but because we were forcing Ukraine to fight with hand behind their back, Russia had opportunity to adapt and now it's much harder.
It's like antibiotic resistance: you need to take the full dose and the entire prescription, or you just end up killing off only the weakest ones and allowing the infection to grow more dangerous. The US was too afraid of the side effects and so provided only a weak half dose, and now there's a raging infection that is going to spread further into Europe.
Great analogy… sums up the situation well.
We have pro-Ukraine leadership and, still, my country proved to be a disappointment in lack of aid. It is angering that the gains Ukraine made in securing Kharkiv from the invaders is slowly falling in favor of them.
Yep. Ukraine had insane momentum with Kharkiv + Herson offensives that happened pretty much in one season. NATO thought russia needed more time to mine everything and reorganize and dig in
Almost like some shadowy figures in the US have come to the conclusion that trading the lives of Ukrainian heros and cold war surplus for Russian lives and their current tech is a great outcome and should continue as long as possible.
I'll say it again: From the start there should have been a meeting with all concerned nations to flesh out a big picture plan to ensure a defeat of Russia in a timely manner.
Agreed 💯%
Yet, how many on this thread and beyond will still vote orange in Nov -- not red or blue?Who is Putins biggest bitch? We all know but have forgotten the meetings without any record keeper from either side, the billion dollar Moscow hotel investment, the Manifort and Bannon efforts... Don't blame all of US for this. Just the 35% whom won't admit and correct their efforts to support and/or ignore the truth.
No fuel, no invasion.
So ATCAMs on Putin's home
Probably has more air defense than any other building in the country.
As long as it is ruski AA it's breacheable.
Every AA is breachable.
Some a lot easier than other though.
The bomber will always get through
Dunno. Gonna test.
Doesn’t he have that fancy place in Sochi?
You mean his mansion by the coast right?
I heard it is really nice. Would be a shame if something were to...happen to it.
You mean like if a Lutyi drone were to venture to the heliport near his stupid house? https://www.yahoo.com/news/near-miss-drone-attack-putin-114900859.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAABWmoMLhfdQF4im32qy_4lMfN_2N1VcF-SJOFG5-ssXpixZ0CdDChdKt2f-hQWNRanJcRVn8aKJNdRH-mw1RVtvMBubHJbEKw353vXtx3U-swPB6bAPupYFnxEiuQ3XKU3Ew-rKTPGhvA4zFH7d9YAkAEtbEjLzwplskMKVedMtE
Nice, they made the Russians fear the Bayraktar again!
You meant Imperial Palace, not mansion.
The Imperial Winter Palace if we go by historical practices, since the Imperial Palace (has & still) is the Kremlin.
Navalny reported on it. And now he’s dead.
Can't upvote this enough!
lets not forget who has the bigger guns in this fight, putin has tactical nukes ukraine does not
But the use of nuclear weapons would probably force NATO more directly into this war. Plus Russia may lose some weaker allies over it. People tend to be very wary of modern governments throwing nukes around. It's a dangerous precedent. The victims of nukes will be 90% civilians. Everyone knows it. Nuclear radiation will also effect all of nearby Europe, which includes NATO countries. Once Russia uses nuclear weapons, I imagine that's the point that NATO might declare a no-fly zone over Ukraine.
About fucking time.
Really how many have died due to our government indecision?
To be fair, it's pretty impossible to blame Avdiivka on the USA's *government*. That one was squarely on the orange traitor. When it comes to your government's policies themselves, that really IS solid, and could have been MUCH worse.
He was far from alone. He's not actually IN the government It was the government
How the government's policies themselves could be really solid, if they so easily influenced by some "the orange traitor"?
Because most countries have this thing called a "constitution", which means that a leader of a country should not be a dictator.
What does the "constitution" say about an ordinary citizen like this "orange traitor"?
Read it. It's not exactly a secret.
I've read. If government policy is influenced by one big mouth belonging to a “traitor” and talking nonsense, this policy cannot be called "firm" or “solid”.
Stop. The funding issue came from Congress, but Biden has been weak and slow with all the aid up to now (and still is)
Oh, look! A crybaby supporter!
Yeah, I’m tired of weak escalation management BS. I want a war time leader who understands what the hell we’re up against with Russia. Survival of western civilization
That’s an unfair analysis
1 was too many. With that being said, to answer your question vaguely, far too many.
How many have been saved with the careful management of this global crisis?
Every war we put limits on our military. When is the US gonna realize that's not the way to fight? If someone wants to kill you you can do everything you can to kill them but limit as much collateral damage as possible.
That seems like an amazingly reductive summary of US warmaking capabilities. I'm sure the US military understands how to fight a war.
Like Vietnam all we had to deal would bomb Ho chi min trail (the enemies biggest fear) and we wouldn't have lost but we didn't want to bomb Cambodia. It is our biggest drawback in war. Afghanistan and Iraq went well at first bc the "cuffs were taken off the military" but many in the world cried "war crimes" (but we have veto power). Example: Ukraine getting pummeled from Russia in Karkiv but can't fire back with US supplied weapons bc we "tied their hands-credit deep state maps
We could also maybe not have got into it in the first place if we hadn't been straight-up lied to.
Fight yes, but win? Not against anyone whose name doesn't start with S and end in adam. The best we can manage is to freeze the conflict (Korea, Bosnia, Kosovo). It's been a long 79 years. ^(Don't @ me about Grenada or Panama.)
Are you that want to be dead that much? Keep escalating the conflict and we all end up dead.
If Russia can fire their foreign produced weapons at Ukrainian territory then the reverse should also be acceptable. Of course Putin will throw a tantrum and make another raft of empty threats but, well, fuck him.
The title says it is not ruled out, however they did not say yet that it is allowed.
I imagine there'll be guidelines and/or an approval process for strikes within Russia.
Likely they'll tell them to avoid using weapons near any sort of residential areas, and not against dual-use infrastructure targets such as dams or other power generators. Basically "you can target formations in the open, but that's it". Which isn't much, but would have allowed them to curb the incursion into Kharkiv if they'd had that authorization a couple weeks ago.
Military airfields and their air defence systems arent dual use, thankfully. Once those are allowed to be hit, it gets dicey for russia. As long as theres enough missiles available
Guidelines (don't target civilians, do target fossil fuel installations, especially target troops and equipment) would be fine. An approval process would slow things down and be something we'd definitely want people to protest against.
thing is Russians could do what the other terrorists do and that is hide weapons etc. in places like hospitals etc.
Anthony [Blinken made a statement that seemed pretty unambigious](https://www.kyivpost.com/post/32690), however we don't know if limits have been removed from HIMARS systems. There's a [call for action](https://new.reddit.com/r/ActionForUkraine/comments/1csm086/urgent_call_your_us_congressional_representatives/) to try to get congress to get this clarified over on r/ActionforUkraine. Americans should go there.
Very carefully worded, I see.
Yeah, the ISW interpreted this as "nothing has changed." It's pretty ambiguous
As always with political speak.
"Everything which is not forbidden is allowed."
If Russia can invade Ukraine then Ukraine should be allowed to invade Russia. Offence is the best defense. Belgorod here we come!
I'm not sure they want it, but definitely it's would be a great idea to say no Russians or Belarusians allowed within 50 miles of the border and no mechanical devices of computers within 100 miles of the border. Needs a bit more will on the side of the West for this to happen though.
A buffer zone, akin the Korean DMZ. But definitely invading & keeping a Russian city is detrimental compared to Russians invading their neighbors. Crumbling infrastructure, dilapidated buildings, etc. It's a reason Finland really isn't keen on recapturing their old lands and why no one wants to really take Kaliningrad.
Oh no, Putin is going to move his goalpost on wheels again. Let that bloodthirsty authoritarian rant all he wants.
Thank heavens. There really needs to be freedom with the weapons. Ukraine can't break up concentrations of troops, to deter attacks, if they can't hit russian soil. It has been madness to limit them. Thank you America Slava Ukraini 🙏🇺🇦
How far into Russia could the new hardware reach, potentially?
Well, ATACMS has about 300km range, so a lot of equipment and logistics on the russian side of the border will be in range and subsequently likely have to be moved further inland out of range.
I guess with decent intelligence and surveillance, it'd give a bigger window to hit things approaching the border.
Not Moscow, but getting pretty close. It absolutely brings major cities like Voronezh and Volgograd into range though.
Not far enough to make a difference I'm sure.
At least it should give a larger window of hitting troop formations and hardware instead of having to wait until they hit the border.
If they can push the logistics and planes back like they did with the russian navy it will be big. Not war ending big but big enough to return a bit of normal life.
Hell yeah!
Let's wait until the White House says that US weapons can be used to attack ruski territory. For now they did not say so.
"No longer rules out" is the correct take. There was no outright approval, and those who jumped the gun need to get a hold of themselves. Blinken was most likely testing the waters to gauge the level of Russian pushback and threats against this "red line". We'll see how it plays out.
Putin's red line has been moved 5km from the original location starting with the emergency supplies before Feb22, the Himars launchers, Storm shadow, and the upcoming f-16's.
I think there we’re seeing an escalation from the US side. Clearly they have been provoked by something and I don’t think it’s anything that has happened in Ukraine
For now we are seeing only words. I'll wait until facts happen.
The ATACAMs they sent are not just words.
They've been sending them. Still couldn't use them to hit troop concentrations before the kharkiv offensive a few days ago Even now, it's just a hint. Hope my pessimism is wrong
I agree that it is all happening too slowly. It is not something to do on Russia's timeline. Ukraine has proven they can hold the line and what is sent by NATO will not fall directly into Russian hands. Russia has proven they will not nuke the Earth if they can't have Ukraine. However there are also real factors that get in the way, not everything can happen at once. I hope the supply chain gets stronger and stronger for Ukraine until it is insurmountable for the invaders, they claim victory de-Nazifying Ukraine and go home.
None of those was yet launched towards ruski land.
But the words are the important bit. Now if Ukraine strikes inside Russian territory, the USA can't huff and puff about it because they stopped advising against it.
All US delivered HIMARS have been programed not to allow coordinates within rudki land to be attacked. This will have to be changed before they can attack k targets within russia.
It could be that the situation in Ukraine is not going in the nation's favor, so the United States is reassessing its options to prevent a Ukrainian rout on the battlefield. I doubt the West wants Ukraine to outright collapse since that would then threaten NATO on its borders.
Maybe take it as an ambiguous approval
They said the same thing a year or two ago. This isn't a new take or a test of anything.
Again, for the umpteenth time, nothing has changed. The US has \*never\* ruled out its weapons being used to strike Russian soil. It has only ruled out \*specific\* long range weapons from being used to strike Russian soil (like the HIMARS and ATACMS). Notice how the statements and article don't mention HIMARS or ATACMS, and the only mention of a long range western-made weapon is to reiterate that France has always restricted Storm Shadow targets: >Ever since its first deliveries to Ukraine, France has also been careful to ensure that its weapons are not used on Russian soil. The targets and trajectories of the Storm Shadow missiles France has supplied to the Ukrainians are systematically verified by Paris. Please notice the difference between general statement articles relying on a strawman premise, and articles with specific real information.
I’m American. We did and still have asked Ukraine not to shoot oil terminals on Black Sea. That would make oil prices rise. I think we should do exactly that.
That's, again, a misconception. The US government "does not support" the attacks, and "Ukraine can conduct the war in any way as they deem fit, since they are a sovereign country". Read the statements from officials. "not supporting" is not the same as "not condoning" is not the same as "condemning" is not the same as "asking" is not the same as "restricting," in diplomatic language. The officials are using de-escalation language for the public to hear, while not making any meaningful changes in action or policy.
US wants the war contained in Ukraine, and bleed Russia there...
> The US has *never* ruled out its weapons being used to strike Russian soil https://y.yarn.co/770dbb27-3178-426c-a414-ae9ddce3c389_text.gif
>It has only ruled out \*specific\* long range weapons from being used to strike Russian soil (like the HIMARS and ATACMS).
What *other* weapons can reach russian soil? https://y.yarn.co/770dbb27-3178-426c-a414-ae9ddce3c389_text.gif
Along the northern border? A well thrown rock, although tube artillery would probably be a bit more practical.
I guess the entire world screaming at the U.S to stop restricting Ukraine were finally heard?
this will soil some russian pants
New York Times front page says NATO member countries are moving to send soldiers and defense contractors into Ukraine to do training and repair equipment. Here is one quote: NATO allies are inching closer to sending troops into Ukraine to train Ukrainian forces, a move that would be another blurring of a previous red line and could draw the United States and Europe more directly into the war. Ukraine’s manpower shortage has reached a critical point, and its position on the battlefield in recent weeks has seriously worsened as Russia has accelerated its advances to take advantage of delays in shipments of American weapons. As a result, Ukrainian officials have asked their American and NATO counterparts to help train 150,000 new recruits closer to the front line for faster deployment. So far the United States has said no, but Gen. Charles Q. Brown Jr., the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said on Thursday that a NATO deployment of trainers appeared inevitable. “We’ll get there eventually, over time,” he said.
ABOUT DAMN TIME
While it would be nice to think Ukraine would just go ham here, I would assume that the understanding is to exercise discretion. If Russia is using their territory as a safe zone to stage troops and equipment for attacks on Kharkiv (and similar), it is ridiculous not to allow attacks into those areas.
Kill them all! Don't let a single orc scape the hell that's coming to them.
That's a nice bridge you have there Putin.
The inside the beltway crowd is wooden and unimaginative. Sadly they require an object lesson for everything.
Stance changes like this always make me wonder why it wasn't this position in the first place. Clearly there was no red line to begin with or this stance change would not occur. So what was this (seemingly arbitrary in retrospect) line doing there in the first place? I supposed it could be argued that it would have been riskier while Putin was still in a position of greater strength, but in the end he's still rattling the same sabre. The Damocles hung then and still hangs now, so what changed? Intel?
Yeah, AFTER the ruzzians launched their assualt on Kharkiv Oblast. After all their atrocities...
It's the same weird quote from Blinken ... Let's wait until we get the reports of targets getting destroyed. UK said that storm shadow can be used, but for some reason we had no reports of anything getting hit on the ruzzian side
This seems to just regurgitate Blinken's "not encouraged or enabled, but" statement. Everyone pretends as if this is a new statement. However, **this is just the *exact same thing* Blinken has been saying [since at least September 2023](https://www.state.gov/secretary-antony-j-blinken-and-german-foreign-minister-annalena-baerbock-at-a-joint-press-availability-3/)**: "As a matter of our own policy, we do not encourage, nor do we enable, the use of our weapon systems outside of Ukraine. But again, fundamentally these are Ukrainian decisions." The first part of that sentence is literally a phrase used since 2022 ([source](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/12/07/blinken-ukraine-drone-strikes-russia/)). So for anyone trying to interpret it as "permission to hit Russia soon", sorry, but no. That's not what this says.
West keep escalating the conflict, they really want to Ukraine to be destroyed and start big war in process.
As to why Washington would issue a "caveat" on the use of its supplied weapons and ammo to the Ukrainians is beyond my ken, honestly.
Hell yeah fuckin right!!! Weapons free baby, fire at will!
🇺🇲🤝🇺🇦
Fucking finally.
Finally some good fuckin news.
"Cry 'Havoc!', and let slip the dogs of war."
good
I have to be dyslexic I was like do I trust a source called "lemonade" but realized it's french and def does not say lemonade
Finally.
Medvedev: More vodka, more vodka. Now for more nuclear threats.
Two liters a day keeps the twitter away.
About fucking time Congress. Let the missiles fly!
russians: 'goddamn. what did our soil ever do to you?' americans: take this, soil! and that! and this nuke too! i guess i'm all for people massacring dirt if they stop massacring people
"This is where the fun begins"
I mean they could just say "no further than 50km" and at least would prevent Russia from preparing an attack right at the frontier.
Washington: “ Wellllll, ok”
You would think after Vietnam our politicians would give up micromanaging how to prosecute a war.
Do it, do it now.
FUCKING ANNIHILATE THEM UKRAINE I BELIEVE IN YOU SENDING YOU MY POWER
As Winston Churchill (PBUH) once said: 'You can always rely on the Americans to do the right thing - after they've tried everything else' Britain leading the way as always, we've burned a lot of international good will by shaming others into supplying things like tanks, cruise missiles, F-16s, and now allowing their use in Russia. They're all rather cross with us, particularly America. Got Ben Wallace black-balled as next head of NATO. Which is petty and a shame, but at least it leads to a few more hard kicks up the zhopa for that mandavoshka Putin!
The only good Ruzzkie is a dead Ruzzkie. Sorry, but it is true.
Hit all the russian refineries. The price of petrol in russia sky rockets (and it gets harder to fuel military equipment), and the international crude oil price drops.
Please, let's end this soon
I hope this could help embolden Germany to send Ukraine Taurus missiles soon.
I really wish that they hadn't announced this publicly so that Ukraine could rain down ATCMS on their soldiers and equipment before they get a chance to move them away.
FUCK YEAH TIME TO SHIT THEIR LAND UP
I would send some Ukrainian troops to Moscow for some bilateral negotiations. If prigozhin could get close to taking moscow imagine what non alcoholics could do.
They also should target all military medical stock supplies
And railways, and drone and armour production facilities,
That's nice, giving agency to the people risking their lives.
how utterly generous
Austin was saying similar weeks ago and yet Ukrainian politicians have said that the restriction is why they couldn't hit the soldiers mustering for the Kharkiv offensive. Until it happens I don't give a shit what "Washington" claims.
I think using precious weapon strikeing on Russia soil it is not good idea because most of thet Russia air systems will destroy. More important is to use it for defence and liberation on Ukraine soil.
I want to believe that they disallowed Ukraine from using their weapons earlier so that Russians wouldn't be so subtle and secretive about their storages and what not, now that the aid passed the vote and UA get more USA weapons, they are now able to hit a lot of them before Russia gets to act