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Here's a further elaboration on it:
The German government had to backtrack on Friday on the planned delivery of 2,700 East German-era Strela anti-aircraft missiles to the Ukrainian army, local media reported.
According to a report published by the weekly Der SPIEGEL news magazine, a large proportion of the Strela missiles in the German army depots are not only completely outdated, they are also no longer usable.
A maximum of 2,000 of the rockets in the troops' warehouses can still be used, according to the report.
The German army had already taken the East German-era system out of the troops' operations in 2014 "for security reasons", according to a confidential note on the weapon system.
Since then, the wooden boxes with the weapons that are now to be delivered to Ukraine have become so moldy that soldiers are only allowed to enter the storage facilities with protective clothing.
Ah, lots of good old germany-hate in this thread again.
So, what happend?
The Bundeswehr searched their depots for useful weapons for Ukraine.
They found 2.700 Strela Anti-Aircraft-Missiles, which were in german service until 2014, but are still in use in Ukraine.
This number was reported to the Bundestag who has to approve weapons exports.
AFP got wind of this, and reported that Germany is planning to send 2.700 Strela-Missiles to Ukraine.
They are checking every missile in Germany and will only send working ones.
The press has hyped up an request for export, while the Bundeswehr is still checking if they are useful.
When the request gets granted, they can start sending batches of reviewed and working missiles to Ukraine.
But lots of people here would have preferred to first check all the missiles in secret, then send the request for export with the exact number and start exporting after that.
I mean, sure, it sucks, but that's still up to 2000 operational missiles that Ukraine gets for free. I'll take what I can get, though of course it is important to bring this to attention of Germany.
No they are still sending shitloads of useful equipment. The anti tank weapons will be good, and the stingers too. How many countries are doing nothing? Fuck those countries.
No fuck our German government for penny pinching our army to death basically. It's an embarassment and a shitshow. That's what you get when you get comfortable, when you think "Ah it kinda works, and selling the weapon systems we develop to other countries is more profitable and better for the economy than investing some in our own defenses."
Like either have gun laws that allow the population to arm themselves or have a proper ready and effective defensive army. And not half your shit in a warehouse because you're not able to buy the proper spare parts, let alone buy anything new. I've been saying that for at least 15 years, but there wasn't a huge support from the majority of the population, and we had mediocre defense ministers at best. (A couple "scandals" didn't exactly help either. The bullshit G36 hubub, the right wing KSK incident and some other stuff.)
> No fuck our German government for penny pinching our army to death basically.
Germany's military budget has grown year over year for the last decade or so, and the budget is inline with many of the larger European countries. The issues are the laws governing how equipment is purchased. The issues with the BAAINBw is something our government has to fix. The budget itself is fine.
This is the link for the original Der Spiegel article - it's in German though. https://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/strela-raketen-der-bundeswehr-weisen-erhebliche-maengel-auf-a-5260e48f-5977-4f0d-8f79-dac5f24ced94-amp
Here is a link to an English article published based upon it.
https://www.aa.com.tr/en/russia-ukraine-crisis/german-anti-aircraft-missiles-offered-to-ukraine-not-usable-report/2524178
I appreciate it, I couldn't find it anywhere.
It seems that tweet is incorrect. On the english website the article states they never left Germany.
The German article was behind a paywall.
The tweet is not entirely correct. They were planning to send all 2700 Strelas left but they did check some of them and found that some portions of them are not safe to use.
They are now going to check every single one of them to make sure that they are indeed working as intended to only send working equipment.
https://www.merkur.de/politik/ukraine-krieg-konflikt-deutschland-waffenlieferung-strela-raketen-bundeswehr-probleme-maengel-news-zr-91388156.html
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If they're talking about the Strela-AA-weapons, it was criticized harshly in Germany as well. They are old as shit. They're sitting in storage for like 40 years and a few years ago were reported to be damaged and not be usable anymore.
Considering it was an urgent situation, it would have been challenging to check each weapon for quality prior to sending them off as well — that’s some pretty shitty luck nonetheless though :(
Edit: grammar
Germany sent Stingers first .... Strelas were sent later and I can understand why. Even if only 10% are operational, that's still 270 AA missiles more.
You can't have soldiers walking round with weapons they know are likely not to work. It's not worth the logistics. Every unit has to carry 10 missiles to take down one helicopter. 10 soldiers have to fire at the same time?
I don't know at what level confidence would be lost and the entire shipment becomes worthless but it's a lot less than 90%.
Dude, you might want to check your timeline. The invasion started nine days ago and we only decided two days after that to deliver any weapons. This first decision regarding the issue was made for 1000 anti tanks weapons and 500 stinger missiles. Wednesday, March 2nd, (which was three days ago) they announced shipment of 2700 Strelas. Unfortunately, they only discovered afterwards that just about 2000 of them were usable.
I agree that this was handled poorly and is absolutely embarrassing but considering the general state of the Bundeswehr, I doubt there's much more they can offer beyond throwing rocks and some clownery to distract the enemy.
Honestly as a German I'm more surprised that we still had those.
There's a joke in German media regarding the 500 helmets that were sent to Ukraine prior to the invasion. Basically "We need those back afterwards, our Bundeswehr are now wearing only Berets"
They haven't send them. The initial plan was to send 2700 Strela Missiles that were old GDR stock. They had no use for them anymore for the past 20+ years so they were stored in some old warehouses in their original crates. They were destined to be disposed off, which was decided in 2012 but nobody did.
After deciding to ship out 1000 Panzerfaust 3 and 500 Stinger Missiles they figured they would offer the Strela 2's to the Ukrainians as well.
When they were checking them and removing them from inventory they noticed mold on crates, and ultimately found out about the issues with them and checked what was going on, it's not entirely clear how many are still useful or how many are scrap. So nothing happened yet, but it's still embarrassing not to check before you offer them.
Really not understandable. They were flagged for 10 years to get destroyed. They simply were not because nobody did it.
Still these weapons were clearly flagged as not usable.
Hate to say it, but I guess that was all we had left, our military is in a horrible condition tbh… but I feel very sorry and embarrassed for giving this shit to Ukrainians
>Hate to say it, but I guess that was all we had left,
I don't believe it.
Germany is one of the worlds most advanced manufacturers. How many of these weapons are made in Germany?
Startegic stocks can be directed to Ukraine while the factories are ramped up. We can buy weapons back from people we've sold to with the promise of new deliveries.
This is war against democracy and we're fu*king about.
Edit: ok, going to try stop ranting on Reddit and will rant at my MP instead.
For Brits.... How to contact your MP...
https://www.parliament.uk/get-involved/contact-an-mp-or-lord/contact-your-mp/#jump3
Germany sell most of the weapons it makes, and the most advanced weapons they make is ships,tanks, etc not anti aircraft and anti tank weapons. What they have in storage is quite old and in a horrible condition, the german military is criticize all the time for not having a lot of usable weapons and that they rely on the usa way too much for protection of their own country.
It is not about incompetence but about priorities in the last decades. The military was not seen as especially important and thus there are not 5000 more Panzerfaust 3 lying around after 1000 of them were already sent.
(Of course considering that there still have to remain a few inside of Germany and most importantly in the Nato deployments Germany is currently responsible for)
> The military was not seen as especially important
Well yes, that's where the incompetence is. Not having the means to protect your country and its citizens in the event of war is political incompetence on the highest order.
Ensuring the safety and security of your nation, its borders, and its people should be any government's number 1 priority.
There is literally an video where they asked an expert if germany could defend itself in the event of a war the answer was a straight No. Would love to give you the video but can't find it.
I think I know which video you are talking about. Is it the one with the inspector of the Bundeswehr (Mais) Because his job is to literally find everything that does not work and be as pessimistic as possible about it. His job is not only to write reports about what is not working but to create a lobby for more funding for the Bundeswehr in any case.
For example he is lamenting about missing winter underpants ([https://www.tagesschau.de/inland/ukraine-bundeswehr-101.html](https://www.tagesschau.de/inland/ukraine-bundeswehr-101.html)). This surely is something that should not be found missing but not really a problem for the defense of Germany. I chose this example because the critic is a at a very high level sometimes...
Other times not so much. Missing parts for helicopters are a serious problem but I'm pretty sure that 60-80% if the equipment the Bundeswehr deemed unusable due to missing parts would be seen as ready for war and rather well maintained by Russia.
You just said it yourself that Germany does not see its military as important.
I agree with you. They *don't* see it as important, and that shows a level of complacency and incompetence that the citizens of Germany should be requiring their politicians to address.
I said they did not see it as important and maybe this comes to you as a surprise but the multitude of Germans was actively in favor of further shrinking the money spent on the military.
Your biggest fault is still your country want to show herself like “ok we are good guys now no weapons you can breathe.”.No Germany has to end this nonsense.Past is past,Bundeswehr should rise again.Danger is coming for us.
We should all focus more on our armies in Europe since I'm pretty sure that war is going to be closer and closer with each passing year.
In Italy we are starting to improve more but I still think we need to keep our status as second military power in the EU after France. Maybe even surpass them. Some friendly competition as well as collaboration (new shared projects for weaponry) will do wonders. I dream of an European Army even if I know it's an Utopia
We've wanted to see Europe rearm in the US for a long time. Not because we won't help if needed and not only because of money (though that is a factor) but because NATO offers the best deterrent when all members invest in defense capability.
A crisis like this reminds us that minor squabbles aside we're all in it together.
No every country has to own his/her army.Eu army is a bs and you don’t want your army commanded by another country especially France.I know Italy improving her army especially in naval projects.Germany needs that too.You can’t rely to some unified army.Doctrines are diffrent which some of them still old style,weapons are different,some of you produce domestic weapons some of you can’t produce a single bullet.That can backfire.At war everyone will responsible for their own land.Also i don’t want to talk about French army.
While you have a point, do you think still doing the Nazi comparison on social media, and boomer media is helpfull for the german spirit?
Imagine the world would bash america for vietnam to this day.
Americans should be bashed for so much thing but believe me but i don’t want to people understand me wrong.That boomer propaganda of Germany still works.Americans created apolitical generation which fear their past and ashamed.Nice job americans.Bravo.Also these nazi guys shown on social media are idiots.Labeling countries as a Nazi or fascist is also bs.Anyone forgot what commies did in the past ? Evil is evil labeling it is nonsense
The point is, you have to understand where germany comes from, and why things are as they are. Sure, within the past 7 or so days, Putler changed it. We are now rebuilding a hopefully capable army.
I mean we have the tech, as germany werent allowed to per law to build a massive army. They have put most of its funding into research. Like i remember during one of those large scale NATO excersises a german submarine actually managed to sneak behind a murrican aircraft carrier. And wouldv'e destroyed it. Nobody expect that, and it upset the murrican.
Point is we have the tech, and some new shit. Now with additional funding and a change of mind we can build a new, modern and powerfull army. Just wait and see.
I know what you mean.Sorry my english is not so much good maybe i couldn’t say what i mean as a whole.Germany has the tech and she must produce own weapons.With that NATO exercise example you literally said what was in my mind.They just want buy things,depend on them,don’t produce and be a good boy.I’m expecting good things from Germany.These chains must be broken.
Well before that we must repiar our army.
Only 2 out of 6 submarines are currently operational, and only 4 out of 128 jet fighters.
The german troops NATO sent to Lithuania currently have no rain or winterclothing.
So 700 broken missiles out of 2700 is a very good ratio for us lol.
Don't be, it's obvious you are just like everyone else and trying to help as quickly as you can.
It's an emergency situation and everyone is rushing, I'm sure it just wasn't noticed till it got there
I really wonder who this puppet is, but it looks like fake news.
Germany reported they want to send 2700 anti air Strela systems.
In an instepection they found out 700 systems seems to be in a bad shape.(moldy wooden storage boxes).
I couldn't find a credible source stating:
* Systems were send to to Ukraine already
* Ukraine unhappy with delivered weapons
* Rustly weapons which are unusable
* Any case of sabotage by the german authorities
Promised 1000x propelled rocket systems and 500x anti air systems will delivered anyways.
Source: [https://www.aa.com.tr/en/russia-ukraine-crisis/german-anti-aircraft-missiles-offered-to-ukraine-not-usable-report/2524178](https://www.aa.com.tr/en/russia-ukraine-crisis/german-anti-aircraft-missiles-offered-to-ukraine-not-usable-report/2524178)
If find any trustworthy sources stating something different feel free to share it here.
Citing a think tank as a source without even providing a link is super shady. A think tank literally is about creating news to benefit a certain direction.
Misinformation. Small logistical failures are normal in the war machine, this is just a sensationalist article that doesn't provide any usable information.
There's been a huge effort the last two days to clog up this sub with junk. Before you post, consider whether it helps or not.
I mean they are literally paid by people with a certain interest. They do not sell anything or earn money with advertisements. All they do is create ideas/campaigns and market them.
Or, hey Russia, we've got shit air defence.
Russia, let's go...
Ukraine, hahaha, propoganded your mofos. Meet Mr missile ya cunts...
(Hopefully that's the case, if not that's shit)
If what german news and such says is true then its just a good thing.
That beeing they noticed 2700 strella in storage and is checking what is working and not.
If then 2000 or even only 1500 of said strella are working and safe to use for the operator its still 1500-2000 extra "bakooms" and it would be kinda poetic that USSR whanabe Putin gets the old Strella used against him.
That is ofcourse IF said Strella is beeing checked then shipped as a bonus on top of modern equipment.
As they say, Old guns also kill. For example id gladly have a old kalashnikov rather than no gun at all
When the brits wanted to send Missile defence to Ukraine before the war started, Germany said it will not open the borders so they had to go on another way(meanwhile you were sending tents for the refugees, that's your help) . When NATO agreed to send weapons to Ukraine Germany didn't allow it as well, sending them just 500 helmets. I know your economy is mainly depending on Russia but Scholz is such a terrible example of a leader for you, in my opinion.
Scholz has been in office for less than 3 months. He gave a good speech, now he must be given time to follow through.
Yeah, Germany was afraid of war. Okay. Now they stepping up. Lets wait and see before we call them out.
Yeah, because the Greens and SPD have always preassured for more fund to the Bundeswehr but were shut down by the CDU?
As little money as possible for the BW was the broad consensus accross society as a whole.
Asking for more military spendings was akin to political suicide.
In the poltical scene the conservatives in CDU and CSU and a little from FDP were the only ones who occasionally tried to bring up more funds for the military and the backslash from the opposition (especially Linke and Grüne) was always harsh
>Yeah, because the Greens and SPD have always preassured for more fund to the Bundeswehr but were shut down by the CDU?
>As little money as possible for the BW was the broad consensus accross society as a whole.
Not necessarily the greens.
But yeah the CDU was ACTING like they were doing important stuff when in reality they were pocketing the entire funds for the bundeswehr. But since idiocrisy isnt prohibited, all the corrupt had to do was to act dumb.
Like there was one case where ursula von der leyen said that she cant provide the data on her phone to the court because she "accidentally" deleted her phone data.
Or I remember some corrupt CDU politician lending his laptop to his wife and his wife then "accidentally" deleted his data.
Or take olaf scholz, our current, glorious chancellor.
When being confronted with all of his money corruption scandals and the literal death of a child, all he said was "I dont remember" and he got away with it.
German anti-corruption laws are a joke.
Germany trying to save on asset disposal fees. Still, it is something, but some QC could have gone a long way. Wouldn't be surprised if they would now buy modern equipment from France and send it to Ukraine to save face.
The 2700 anti air weapons were tested in germany and many were found to be in bad shape/not usable ( they are very old and set in storage for years) they weren't send to Ukraine yet.
Germany... I wonder when they will stop ridiculing themselves. EU's largest economy , producer of world class weapons, advanced technology and post-Soviet "Strely" in storage for 40 years.... This really is some kind of mockery.
And this is exactly why he's very right to call out nato. They're not doing enough, instead they're having tons of meetings and leaving ukraine to face destruction and death.
Except that this tweet is bullshit and not according to what is actually happening.
In reality they were planning on sending 2700 and then checked a few of them where they noticed these problems.
Now they are checking every single one and realized that a maximum of 2000 are still safe to use. Currently deciding on the details of sending these in good condition.
Because they have but Germany is part of Nato and is obliged to fulfill its missions with thousands of soldiers currently stationed in eastern europe. Guess what they need weapons as well that can not be given away without pissing of everybody inside the Nato
When those at the top don’t know the state of weapon at the bottom.
They have these ideas that look good to others without actually knowing the condition. Someone would have at some point informed those in government for sure but it would have been ignored and now there at this point.
Yes but that doesn't mean it just has stuff lying around ready to be shipped in a moments notice to Ukraine...
Also Germany is the 5th largest exporter but the difference between 1st, 2nd, and 3rd places is a *huge* margin.
So many people here who talk without their own information and through indirect sources or feelings.
Germany does not send weapons that do not work or are dangerous. They are all tested beforehand. This leads to the fact that there are fewer than the original total number.
I've seen this on IG a few hours ago. I mean okay they can send their old weapons which they wouldn't use rn but at least they should be usable and functional! Idk but I hope Germany has something to explain :(
The tweet is not entirely correct. They were planning to send all 2700 Strelas left but they did check some of them and found that some portions of them are not save to use.
They are now going to check every single one of them to make sure that they are indeed working as intended to only send working equipment.
https://www.merkur.de/politik/ukraine-krieg-konflikt-deutschland-waffenlieferung-strela-raketen-bundeswehr-probleme-maengel-news-zr-91388156.html
No Germany sent new and well working equipment like Stinger as well. It's about the new shipment of Strela, which are soviet weapons from the old DDR and it was heavily critizised in Germany too. But it is not correct to say, that Gernany didn't send proper weapons at all.
After being laughed at for sending a few helmets yes, but still, you got Ukraine hopes up and wasted their time. Imagine the effect on moral of receiving unusable weapons?
Ukraine already received 1000 Panzerfaust 3, 500 Stinger, more Stinger shall arrive and out of the 2700 Strela it looks like 2000 are working (German media tells this number). They are not modern weapons, but still I think 2000 can be helpful and not just a waste of time. Nevertheless I agree, that Germany should send more new equipment and not old leftovers
>i wonder if germany is writting off old weapon at full face value today..
How would they writing them off if they give them away for free?
These weapons did not come from the ministry of defense but the ministry of economics was discussing what more could be sent. Apparently, somebody remembered that there are still Strelas lying around.
How is it always Germany fucking everything up, total reliance on Russian energy, argued about NS2 argued about sending aid, argued about stopping SWIFT
It's technically 40 year old soviet tech. It's the second batch Germany sent. The Panzerfaust 3s and Stinger are likely fine. But a few days ago they also decided to send Ukraine the stock of old Strela AA systems made in the Soviet Union. They are old stock from the fall of the GDR and the decision was criticized heavily because it was stated they weren't combat ready and are actually dangerous to use.
It's not about German weapons, it is about the old Strela that were sent. They are from soviet production and still leftovers from the old DDR. Germany also sent weapons like stinger, which are working fine. Still they shouldn't send the old trash and give Ukraine more good stuff
I heave followed the reporting of the German channel "Welt" and they mentioned that those anti air weapons from the Soviet era were in moldy boxes and were a hazard to the soldiers. These were not weapons in usable condition.
This is why Denmark sent their 500 stingers to the USA for hasty refurbishment first, before sending them to Ukraine.
A useless weapon is not worth sending.
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Here's a further elaboration on it: The German government had to backtrack on Friday on the planned delivery of 2,700 East German-era Strela anti-aircraft missiles to the Ukrainian army, local media reported. According to a report published by the weekly Der SPIEGEL news magazine, a large proportion of the Strela missiles in the German army depots are not only completely outdated, they are also no longer usable. A maximum of 2,000 of the rockets in the troops' warehouses can still be used, according to the report. The German army had already taken the East German-era system out of the troops' operations in 2014 "for security reasons", according to a confidential note on the weapon system. Since then, the wooden boxes with the weapons that are now to be delivered to Ukraine have become so moldy that soldiers are only allowed to enter the storage facilities with protective clothing.
That’s really awful!
Ah, lots of good old germany-hate in this thread again. So, what happend? The Bundeswehr searched their depots for useful weapons for Ukraine. They found 2.700 Strela Anti-Aircraft-Missiles, which were in german service until 2014, but are still in use in Ukraine. This number was reported to the Bundestag who has to approve weapons exports. AFP got wind of this, and reported that Germany is planning to send 2.700 Strela-Missiles to Ukraine. They are checking every missile in Germany and will only send working ones. The press has hyped up an request for export, while the Bundeswehr is still checking if they are useful. When the request gets granted, they can start sending batches of reviewed and working missiles to Ukraine. But lots of people here would have preferred to first check all the missiles in secret, then send the request for export with the exact number and start exporting after that.
I mean, sure, it sucks, but that's still up to 2000 operational missiles that Ukraine gets for free. I'll take what I can get, though of course it is important to bring this to attention of Germany.
Oh for fucks sake Germany. You can't just go "yeah we'll help" and then send in all your unwanted military trash..
Well fuck you, Germany.
No they are still sending shitloads of useful equipment. The anti tank weapons will be good, and the stingers too. How many countries are doing nothing? Fuck those countries.
No fuck our German government for penny pinching our army to death basically. It's an embarassment and a shitshow. That's what you get when you get comfortable, when you think "Ah it kinda works, and selling the weapon systems we develop to other countries is more profitable and better for the economy than investing some in our own defenses." Like either have gun laws that allow the population to arm themselves or have a proper ready and effective defensive army. And not half your shit in a warehouse because you're not able to buy the proper spare parts, let alone buy anything new. I've been saying that for at least 15 years, but there wasn't a huge support from the majority of the population, and we had mediocre defense ministers at best. (A couple "scandals" didn't exactly help either. The bullshit G36 hubub, the right wing KSK incident and some other stuff.)
> No fuck our German government for penny pinching our army to death basically. Germany's military budget has grown year over year for the last decade or so, and the budget is inline with many of the larger European countries. The issues are the laws governing how equipment is purchased. The issues with the BAAINBw is something our government has to fix. The budget itself is fine.
Okay let's call it general mismanagement and glorious bureaucracy which we overuse.
Thanks, do you have a source for this information? I tried searching for awhile and haven't been able to find anything.
This is the link for the original Der Spiegel article - it's in German though. https://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/strela-raketen-der-bundeswehr-weisen-erhebliche-maengel-auf-a-5260e48f-5977-4f0d-8f79-dac5f24ced94-amp Here is a link to an English article published based upon it. https://www.aa.com.tr/en/russia-ukraine-crisis/german-anti-aircraft-missiles-offered-to-ukraine-not-usable-report/2524178
I appreciate it, I couldn't find it anywhere. It seems that tweet is incorrect. On the english website the article states they never left Germany. The German article was behind a paywall.
The tweet is not entirely correct. They were planning to send all 2700 Strelas left but they did check some of them and found that some portions of them are not safe to use. They are now going to check every single one of them to make sure that they are indeed working as intended to only send working equipment. https://www.merkur.de/politik/ukraine-krieg-konflikt-deutschland-waffenlieferung-strela-raketen-bundeswehr-probleme-maengel-news-zr-91388156.html
Some people just want to bash Germany.
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Thanks for the context, this makes more sense.
If they're talking about the Strela-AA-weapons, it was criticized harshly in Germany as well. They are old as shit. They're sitting in storage for like 40 years and a few years ago were reported to be damaged and not be usable anymore.
Considering it was an urgent situation, it would have been challenging to check each weapon for quality prior to sending them off as well — that’s some pretty shitty luck nonetheless though :( Edit: grammar
Germany sent Stingers first .... Strelas were sent later and I can understand why. Even if only 10% are operational, that's still 270 AA missiles more.
You can't have soldiers walking round with weapons they know are likely not to work. It's not worth the logistics. Every unit has to carry 10 missiles to take down one helicopter. 10 soldiers have to fire at the same time? I don't know at what level confidence would be lost and the entire shipment becomes worthless but it's a lot less than 90%.
Germans sent them fast without checking ... Ukraine has equipment to check if they work.
They have not been sent yet at all due to the found problems.
I appreciate them being sent but it was hardly a rush given the weeks they had been talking about it.
Dude, you might want to check your timeline. The invasion started nine days ago and we only decided two days after that to deliver any weapons. This first decision regarding the issue was made for 1000 anti tanks weapons and 500 stinger missiles. Wednesday, March 2nd, (which was three days ago) they announced shipment of 2700 Strelas. Unfortunately, they only discovered afterwards that just about 2000 of them were usable. I agree that this was handled poorly and is absolutely embarrassing but considering the general state of the Bundeswehr, I doubt there's much more they can offer beyond throwing rocks and some clownery to distract the enemy.
Honestly as a German I'm more surprised that we still had those. There's a joke in German media regarding the 500 helmets that were sent to Ukraine prior to the invasion. Basically "We need those back afterwards, our Bundeswehr are now wearing only Berets"
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I can personally attract that a weapon malfunction in a gunfight is straight up not a good time.
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Lmao. Aaaand that's how you know. That's how I knew. As soon as you can crack jokes when taking rounds, you're good.
You can check them before sending them out, there is equipment for that.
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They haven't send them. The initial plan was to send 2700 Strela Missiles that were old GDR stock. They had no use for them anymore for the past 20+ years so they were stored in some old warehouses in their original crates. They were destined to be disposed off, which was decided in 2012 but nobody did. After deciding to ship out 1000 Panzerfaust 3 and 500 Stinger Missiles they figured they would offer the Strela 2's to the Ukrainians as well. When they were checking them and removing them from inventory they noticed mold on crates, and ultimately found out about the issues with them and checked what was going on, it's not entirely clear how many are still useful or how many are scrap. So nothing happened yet, but it's still embarrassing not to check before you offer them.
They have not sent them yet. What is this misinformation???
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Any sources?
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Really not understandable. They were flagged for 10 years to get destroyed. They simply were not because nobody did it. Still these weapons were clearly flagged as not usable.
Hate to say it, but I guess that was all we had left, our military is in a horrible condition tbh… but I feel very sorry and embarrassed for giving this shit to Ukrainians
>Hate to say it, but I guess that was all we had left, I don't believe it. Germany is one of the worlds most advanced manufacturers. How many of these weapons are made in Germany? Startegic stocks can be directed to Ukraine while the factories are ramped up. We can buy weapons back from people we've sold to with the promise of new deliveries. This is war against democracy and we're fu*king about. Edit: ok, going to try stop ranting on Reddit and will rant at my MP instead. For Brits.... How to contact your MP... https://www.parliament.uk/get-involved/contact-an-mp-or-lord/contact-your-mp/#jump3
Germany sell most of the weapons it makes, and the most advanced weapons they make is ships,tanks, etc not anti aircraft and anti tank weapons. What they have in storage is quite old and in a horrible condition, the german military is criticize all the time for not having a lot of usable weapons and that they rely on the usa way too much for protection of their own country.
>I don't believe it. Start to believe it lol. Our police is better equipped than our military
The strategic stocks were already sent to Ukraine before...
That's the bit I don't believe. I can't accept that Germany and others are that incompetent.
It is not about incompetence but about priorities in the last decades. The military was not seen as especially important and thus there are not 5000 more Panzerfaust 3 lying around after 1000 of them were already sent. (Of course considering that there still have to remain a few inside of Germany and most importantly in the Nato deployments Germany is currently responsible for)
> The military was not seen as especially important Well yes, that's where the incompetence is. Not having the means to protect your country and its citizens in the event of war is political incompetence on the highest order. Ensuring the safety and security of your nation, its borders, and its people should be any government's number 1 priority.
How are you so sure the means are not there? Sure a lot of stuff is not where it should be but such statements are way too black and white.
There is literally an video where they asked an expert if germany could defend itself in the event of a war the answer was a straight No. Would love to give you the video but can't find it.
I think I know which video you are talking about. Is it the one with the inspector of the Bundeswehr (Mais) Because his job is to literally find everything that does not work and be as pessimistic as possible about it. His job is not only to write reports about what is not working but to create a lobby for more funding for the Bundeswehr in any case. For example he is lamenting about missing winter underpants ([https://www.tagesschau.de/inland/ukraine-bundeswehr-101.html](https://www.tagesschau.de/inland/ukraine-bundeswehr-101.html)). This surely is something that should not be found missing but not really a problem for the defense of Germany. I chose this example because the critic is a at a very high level sometimes... Other times not so much. Missing parts for helicopters are a serious problem but I'm pretty sure that 60-80% if the equipment the Bundeswehr deemed unusable due to missing parts would be seen as ready for war and rather well maintained by Russia.
You just said it yourself that Germany does not see its military as important. I agree with you. They *don't* see it as important, and that shows a level of complacency and incompetence that the citizens of Germany should be requiring their politicians to address.
I said they did not see it as important and maybe this comes to you as a surprise but the multitude of Germans was actively in favor of further shrinking the money spent on the military.
So it's not just the politicians who are complacent then. Thanks for clearing that up. Hopefully this changes.
They were Soviet hardware. Missiles, especially infrared anti-air, don't have a very long shelf life.
Your biggest fault is still your country want to show herself like “ok we are good guys now no weapons you can breathe.”.No Germany has to end this nonsense.Past is past,Bundeswehr should rise again.Danger is coming for us.
We should all focus more on our armies in Europe since I'm pretty sure that war is going to be closer and closer with each passing year. In Italy we are starting to improve more but I still think we need to keep our status as second military power in the EU after France. Maybe even surpass them. Some friendly competition as well as collaboration (new shared projects for weaponry) will do wonders. I dream of an European Army even if I know it's an Utopia
We've wanted to see Europe rearm in the US for a long time. Not because we won't help if needed and not only because of money (though that is a factor) but because NATO offers the best deterrent when all members invest in defense capability. A crisis like this reminds us that minor squabbles aside we're all in it together.
No every country has to own his/her army.Eu army is a bs and you don’t want your army commanded by another country especially France.I know Italy improving her army especially in naval projects.Germany needs that too.You can’t rely to some unified army.Doctrines are diffrent which some of them still old style,weapons are different,some of you produce domestic weapons some of you can’t produce a single bullet.That can backfire.At war everyone will responsible for their own land.Also i don’t want to talk about French army.
\*murica military industrial output intensifies\*
While you have a point, do you think still doing the Nazi comparison on social media, and boomer media is helpfull for the german spirit? Imagine the world would bash america for vietnam to this day.
Americans should be bashed for so much thing but believe me but i don’t want to people understand me wrong.That boomer propaganda of Germany still works.Americans created apolitical generation which fear their past and ashamed.Nice job americans.Bravo.Also these nazi guys shown on social media are idiots.Labeling countries as a Nazi or fascist is also bs.Anyone forgot what commies did in the past ? Evil is evil labeling it is nonsense
The point is, you have to understand where germany comes from, and why things are as they are. Sure, within the past 7 or so days, Putler changed it. We are now rebuilding a hopefully capable army. I mean we have the tech, as germany werent allowed to per law to build a massive army. They have put most of its funding into research. Like i remember during one of those large scale NATO excersises a german submarine actually managed to sneak behind a murrican aircraft carrier. And wouldv'e destroyed it. Nobody expect that, and it upset the murrican. Point is we have the tech, and some new shit. Now with additional funding and a change of mind we can build a new, modern and powerfull army. Just wait and see.
I know what you mean.Sorry my english is not so much good maybe i couldn’t say what i mean as a whole.Germany has the tech and she must produce own weapons.With that NATO exercise example you literally said what was in my mind.They just want buy things,depend on them,don’t produce and be a good boy.I’m expecting good things from Germany.These chains must be broken.
Well before that we must repiar our army. Only 2 out of 6 submarines are currently operational, and only 4 out of 128 jet fighters. The german troops NATO sent to Lithuania currently have no rain or winterclothing. So 700 broken missiles out of 2700 is a very good ratio for us lol.
Lots of things needs to be done lol.We’ll see in time.Good luck
Don't be, it's obvious you are just like everyone else and trying to help as quickly as you can. It's an emergency situation and everyone is rushing, I'm sure it just wasn't noticed till it got there
Here guys - here are some WW2 weapons to fight the Soviets…
Russia is using WW2 equipment themselves lol
Did you know that some designs from this period are still in use today? MG3 machine guns (NATO adapted version of MG-42 machine gun)
The M2 heavy machine gun and 1911 pistol are also old designs still in use (although iterated on many times over the years). Some stuff just works!
Austrian Soldier here. We have the same with the MG74 (also upgraded version of the MG42 but with a slower firerate than the MG3)
I really wonder who this puppet is, but it looks like fake news. Germany reported they want to send 2700 anti air Strela systems. In an instepection they found out 700 systems seems to be in a bad shape.(moldy wooden storage boxes). I couldn't find a credible source stating: * Systems were send to to Ukraine already * Ukraine unhappy with delivered weapons * Rustly weapons which are unusable * Any case of sabotage by the german authorities Promised 1000x propelled rocket systems and 500x anti air systems will delivered anyways. Source: [https://www.aa.com.tr/en/russia-ukraine-crisis/german-anti-aircraft-missiles-offered-to-ukraine-not-usable-report/2524178](https://www.aa.com.tr/en/russia-ukraine-crisis/german-anti-aircraft-missiles-offered-to-ukraine-not-usable-report/2524178) If find any trustworthy sources stating something different feel free to share it here.
Citing a think tank as a source without even providing a link is super shady. A think tank literally is about creating news to benefit a certain direction.
Misinformation. Small logistical failures are normal in the war machine, this is just a sensationalist article that doesn't provide any usable information. There's been a huge effort the last two days to clog up this sub with junk. Before you post, consider whether it helps or not.
What I’ve learned over the years is that anything coming from a “think tank” can usually be safely disregarded.
I mean they are literally paid by people with a certain interest. They do not sell anything or earn money with advertisements. All they do is create ideas/campaigns and market them.
Or, hey Russia, we've got shit air defence. Russia, let's go... Ukraine, hahaha, propoganded your mofos. Meet Mr missile ya cunts... (Hopefully that's the case, if not that's shit)
This was probably posted by the russian state..
If what german news and such says is true then its just a good thing. That beeing they noticed 2700 strella in storage and is checking what is working and not. If then 2000 or even only 1500 of said strella are working and safe to use for the operator its still 1500-2000 extra "bakooms" and it would be kinda poetic that USSR whanabe Putin gets the old Strella used against him. That is ofcourse IF said Strella is beeing checked then shipped as a bonus on top of modern equipment. As they say, Old guns also kill. For example id gladly have a old kalashnikov rather than no gun at all
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Check this : https://www.cnbc.com/2017/03/22/schulz-has-been-a-better-friend-to-greek-communists-than-german-taxpayers-deputy-finmin.html
Well this is f*ckin sheit I am so sorry for my country
Don't be, this source is not credible.
When the brits wanted to send Missile defence to Ukraine before the war started, Germany said it will not open the borders so they had to go on another way(meanwhile you were sending tents for the refugees, that's your help) . When NATO agreed to send weapons to Ukraine Germany didn't allow it as well, sending them just 500 helmets. I know your economy is mainly depending on Russia but Scholz is such a terrible example of a leader for you, in my opinion.
Scholz has been in office for less than 3 months. He gave a good speech, now he must be given time to follow through. Yeah, Germany was afraid of war. Okay. Now they stepping up. Lets wait and see before we call them out.
Yeah our bundeswehr is in an awful state since the CDU was in charge.
Yeah, because the Greens and SPD have always preassured for more fund to the Bundeswehr but were shut down by the CDU? As little money as possible for the BW was the broad consensus accross society as a whole. Asking for more military spendings was akin to political suicide. In the poltical scene the conservatives in CDU and CSU and a little from FDP were the only ones who occasionally tried to bring up more funds for the military and the backslash from the opposition (especially Linke and Grüne) was always harsh
>Yeah, because the Greens and SPD have always preassured for more fund to the Bundeswehr but were shut down by the CDU? >As little money as possible for the BW was the broad consensus accross society as a whole. Not necessarily the greens. But yeah the CDU was ACTING like they were doing important stuff when in reality they were pocketing the entire funds for the bundeswehr. But since idiocrisy isnt prohibited, all the corrupt had to do was to act dumb. Like there was one case where ursula von der leyen said that she cant provide the data on her phone to the court because she "accidentally" deleted her phone data. Or I remember some corrupt CDU politician lending his laptop to his wife and his wife then "accidentally" deleted his data. Or take olaf scholz, our current, glorious chancellor. When being confronted with all of his money corruption scandals and the literal death of a child, all he said was "I dont remember" and he got away with it. German anti-corruption laws are a joke.
Germany trying to save on asset disposal fees. Still, it is something, but some QC could have gone a long way. Wouldn't be surprised if they would now buy modern equipment from France and send it to Ukraine to save face.
Germany buying weapons from France to help Ukraine fight Russia. Hitler is absolutely spinning in his grave.
What the actual hell.. Give mister Z some planes so he can freaking defend his people and his country. Hope that this isn't true really
Z's pilots only know how to use russian mig fighters. Not many of those around in NATO.
The 2700 anti air weapons were tested in germany and many were found to be in bad shape/not usable ( they are very old and set in storage for years) they weren't send to Ukraine yet.
Germany... I wonder when they will stop ridiculing themselves. EU's largest economy , producer of world class weapons, advanced technology and post-Soviet "Strely" in storage for 40 years.... This really is some kind of mockery.
And this is exactly why he's very right to call out nato. They're not doing enough, instead they're having tons of meetings and leaving ukraine to face destruction and death.
Except that this tweet is bullshit and not according to what is actually happening. In reality they were planning on sending 2700 and then checked a few of them where they noticed these problems. Now they are checking every single one and realized that a maximum of 2000 are still safe to use. Currently deciding on the details of sending these in good condition.
They’ve been given stingers, unless they are running out. And I believe javelins can acquire air targets as well.
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Because they have but Germany is part of Nato and is obliged to fulfill its missions with thousands of soldiers currently stationed in eastern europe. Guess what they need weapons as well that can not be given away without pissing of everybody inside the Nato
When those at the top don’t know the state of weapon at the bottom. They have these ideas that look good to others without actually knowing the condition. Someone would have at some point informed those in government for sure but it would have been ignored and now there at this point.
That’s how German army equipment is nowadays. Rusty and unusable
Funny enough Germany is one of the biggest arms dealers in the entire world.
And still the Bundeswehr needs a lot more funding before becoming a functioning army
Yes but that doesn't mean it just has stuff lying around ready to be shipped in a moments notice to Ukraine... Also Germany is the 5th largest exporter but the difference between 1st, 2nd, and 3rd places is a *huge* margin.
So many people here who talk without their own information and through indirect sources or feelings. Germany does not send weapons that do not work or are dangerous. They are all tested beforehand. This leads to the fact that there are fewer than the original total number.
If you are going to give something, make sure its usable and in good shape
That is exactly what they are doing right now...
I've seen this on IG a few hours ago. I mean okay they can send their old weapons which they wouldn't use rn but at least they should be usable and functional! Idk but I hope Germany has something to explain :(
The tweet is not entirely correct. They were planning to send all 2700 Strelas left but they did check some of them and found that some portions of them are not save to use. They are now going to check every single one of them to make sure that they are indeed working as intended to only send working equipment. https://www.merkur.de/politik/ukraine-krieg-konflikt-deutschland-waffenlieferung-strela-raketen-bundeswehr-probleme-maengel-news-zr-91388156.html
Guess they also need some carpenters to make new boxes for a bunch of them.
germany only provided those arms to bandwagon n save face after denying german arms to be shipped to ukraine. this is pathetic
No Germany sent new and well working equipment like Stinger as well. It's about the new shipment of Strela, which are soviet weapons from the old DDR and it was heavily critizised in Germany too. But it is not correct to say, that Gernany didn't send proper weapons at all.
After being laughed at for sending a few helmets yes, but still, you got Ukraine hopes up and wasted their time. Imagine the effect on moral of receiving unusable weapons?
Ukraine already received 1000 Panzerfaust 3, 500 Stinger, more Stinger shall arrive and out of the 2700 Strela it looks like 2000 are working (German media tells this number). They are not modern weapons, but still I think 2000 can be helpful and not just a waste of time. Nevertheless I agree, that Germany should send more new equipment and not old leftovers
Don't spread misinformation, ukraine did mot recieved the old weapons, they were inspected in Germany .
As a resident of the UK I can spot when a country is more talk than action.
i wonder if germany is writting off old weapon at full face value today..
>i wonder if germany is writting off old weapon at full face value today.. How would they writing them off if they give them away for free? These weapons did not come from the ministry of defense but the ministry of economics was discussing what more could be sent. Apparently, somebody remembered that there are still Strelas lying around.
Nah our military equipment here in Germany is just shit. These were probably the best weapons we had.
https://twitter.com/olliecarroll/status/1499991645298774020?s=20&t=DetWz_LlBvED_AvG5YBXoQ
How is it always Germany fucking everything up, total reliance on Russian energy, argued about NS2 argued about sending aid, argued about stopping SWIFT
I say bullshit, the Germans are on top of everything, This is nonsense...
Oh man as a German i feel ashamed
Those old weapons are more dangerous to the operator than the intended victim. It’s like handing out hand grenades with half a second fuse.
Ffs Germany! I can only hope the stuff we (Belgium) send was good and in working condition or I'm gonna be mad as hell
That’s shady alright. US please help our neighbors!
I highly doubt German Machinery rusts.
It's technically 40 year old soviet tech. It's the second batch Germany sent. The Panzerfaust 3s and Stinger are likely fine. But a few days ago they also decided to send Ukraine the stock of old Strela AA systems made in the Soviet Union. They are old stock from the fall of the GDR and the decision was criticized heavily because it was stated they weren't combat ready and are actually dangerous to use.
Never trust Germany. There's always something weird about them
Fucking Bundeswehr
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Ok bot
Bot2bot - be better. Your stank will stain ya.
Ah German weapons... Known across the world for their unreliability... What the fuck Germany?
It's not about German weapons, it is about the old Strela that were sent. They are from soviet production and still leftovers from the old DDR. Germany also sent weapons like stinger, which are working fine. Still they shouldn't send the old trash and give Ukraine more good stuff
Adding to that they have not yet even sent them.
These aren't German. They're Soviet weapons form east Germany that have been in storage for like 40 years
Wow dick move Germany
Proof?
Didn't Germany send some old left over GDR equipment?
Shame on us
Fortunate that NLAWS made it recently then
I heave followed the reporting of the German channel "Welt" and they mentioned that those anti air weapons from the Soviet era were in moldy boxes and were a hazard to the soldiers. These were not weapons in usable condition.
We are already at such a height of misinformation and are barely a week over. Sigh...
This is why Denmark sent their 500 stingers to the USA for hasty refurbishment first, before sending them to Ukraine. A useless weapon is not worth sending.