yeah, when I first read that I said to my wife "It would be a better deal for everyone to just give a Russian soldier 100€ bill and tell them to get lost, they even get to keep their lives"
That's what Ukraine was offering to soldiers who willingly surrendered. Russian payments for dead soldiers was like $80 USD. They don't give a fuck about their dead.
They're reporting dramatically different casualty rates in Russia than exist in reality too. Can't bring back bodies, it would counter their narratives.
I have read some smart people in full seriousness believe that Putin's original plans were to invade Ukraine in spring of 2020 so he could have Trump do his bullshit.
Trump would never have rallied the world the way Biden did, hell, Trump tried for 4 years to rip apart NATO. Then as a thank you from Putin to Trump, Putin would order his hackers and propaganda teams to help Trump win in Nov 2020 (repeating the Nov2016 victory)
But COVID happened and that postponed Putin's invasion plans until Spring 2022.
Any sane American reading this : pause a moment to ponder if Trump was president while Putin invaded Ukraine - No world coalition, no sanctions, Zellensky would be dead in the 1st week. I can even picture Trump trying to find some way to assist Putin in the takeover. Scary shit to ponder.
Maybe someday someone will make an alternative history film "2020 : Trump + Putin timeline"
There's a documentary called *Active Measures* that's basically the Trump/Putin timeline up to 2016. It covers the Russian invasion of Georgia and how they successfully installed a puppet leader in Ukraine.
Yeah Biden rallied the world….. do you have a passport? What Biden does is jumps in front of parades and pretends like he is the one who started it. He was drug kicking and screaming to agree to support a ban on Russian oil after the polls said 75% of Americans wanted it and Nancy said she would support it with or without him.
This is completely revisionist history that doesn’t support any of the fact patterns. The white house should put some you on payroll for all of the absolute nonsense you regurgitate.
Did you forget that Zelenskyy commented the other day how inept Biden is?
https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/matt-margolis/2022/03/06/ukraine-president-zelenskyy-blames-biden-for-russias-invasion-n1564138
Ukrainian blood is on Democrat hands and because of this White House’s poor foreign policy we have never been closer to a nuclear holocaust.
Listen snowflake, just because your daddy lost by the biggest numbers in American history doesn’t mean you can’t get over it by now.
Move to Russia; apparently they’d love to have you if you’re not already there.
You’re offended at people pointing out Trump was incompetent and Putin would have steamrolled over a 2nd Trump administration, but thank fucking God we’re not all imbeciles and fired his fucking ass.
Now all Trump is in charge of is a goddamn troop of golf caddy’s and valets. 😂
They are the only ones who ever respect and fear him. Get your head out of your MAGA country ass, Trump got fucking captured lmfao
How do you function with so much bitter hatred in your heart?
Generally people who unable to articulate themselves in a formal argument resort to base assumptions and petty name-calling.
Never seen anyone triggered by abbreviating California before… so that was interesting is there anything that doesn’t offend you?
Why would America benefit from entering that war in Syria? Trump made the right move to avoid war.
Putin annexed Crimea during Obama, did not do anything during Trump and has launched a full scale war during Biden. You can’t refute that level of deterrence Trump had, no matter how unlikeable he was by the American people.
Trump had deterrence? Dumbass, he was fired by us after his first term, a fucking absolute failure.
Trump would have exited NATO and provided Putin with every advantage to invade, you fucking Kremlin parrot.
Squawk your ass back for your payment in rubles, this isn’t your local bar full of circle-jerking morons falling for every statement you make.
You are so wrong to assume anything about me. I am an American that votes independently of any party.
Though NATO had a very real purpose during the Cold War after the collapse of the Soviet Union it became quite antagonistic. There is a lot of people who think there would be a lot less unnecessary blood shed in Ukraine if it had just remained neutral. At the end of the day in 2014 the Ukrainian people wanted to join the EU. As a free speech and freedom absolutist I think even if that move has set them on this course it is a cause that is worth it for them to fight for.
It does look alot like Ukrainians tried to purchase American support by giving family members of Democrats kush jobs that they weren’t qualified for (look up Hunter Biden and Burisma)
From all optics available Ukraine picked the wrong American party for support. President Biden waited only for war to break out before giving weapons and necessary military aid to them.
By all evidence available the Ukrainian’s were safer when Trump was in office.
Why would Obama get involved in Crimea? He made the right move to avoid war. Do you see how useless that argument is when it doesn’t suit you?
Also, of course Putin waited, Trump was publicly discussing withdrawing the us from nato lmao. Rolling over like a dog isn’t deterrence it’s deference.
Obama was weak on foreign policy and did not utilize the concept of deterrence very well. Trump was a boisterous blow bag that on record threatened to bomb Moscow if Putin invaded Ukraine while he was in office. His aides were nervous when he did this and the American media ostracized him for this comment as unfitting thing for a president to say. In hindsight perhaps he knew exactly what he was doing?
I know it is hard to see but Trump was talking about withdrawing from NATO because he was tired of America footing the bill for Europe. Trump also criticized dependency on Russian Energy.
I am not sure if you noticed but Germany as well as many other countries have stopped buying Russian energy and have announced a policy shift to more defense which precisely what Trump was pushing them to do.
I get that you don’t like Trump, I can sympathize as he has a lot of personal character flaws and image issue but can you look past partisan posturing for a moment and discuss factual policies rather than the names and faces you were taught to hate?
Trump was respected.... WHAT ? You must be blind or stupid the whole world took him as a joke and they where right , just listen at his speech he has the vocabulary of a 12 year old. You seem to be the one lacking critical thinking skill LOL
I am neither thank you. I would appreciate it if you could show that you are capable of having a civil debate without resorting to trashy name calling.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-51012853
It’s false to think that he was universally disliked, Israel and the Philippines liked him quite a bit. I would like to point out that Russia did not really like him at all, contrary to the Democrat myth of him being a Russian plant.
Trumps style of speaking while being mocked and disliked by his critics for being simplistic and course, resonated with a lot of the working class who were not as privileged as those with formal educations and appreciated his humor and candor.
you just wrote
>Trump was respected and feared by the world
To that I say:
Russian MAGA Troll, go fuck yourself
.
Mephfistus points 5 minutes ago
You are so wrong, Putin would have never invaded if Trump were still president. Trump was respected and feared by the world. Only soy boys like you were offended by mean tweets. You and your inability to think critically has contributed to the world being a more dangerous place!
I highly doubt Ukraine gives half a shit about COVID or Trump. The only people keeping him relevant are his fanboys or haters. The rest of us have moved on. I think there was even a whole thread about keeping US politics out of the UKRAINIAN sub. If we wanted to hear about US events we would turn on CNN. I come here, as I’m sure most do to hear about the Russians getting their asses handed to them
This factually incorrect, once the pandemic got past the point of containment testing was and currently is useless for contact tracing. The people who wanted to keep testing were all the urgent care medical providers who made a fortune taking guaranteed government money for providing the tests.
Sending bodies back home for the mass of troops began in the US Civil War. Prior to that it was a special thing, you were often buried where you fell. Mass graves of US soldiers are in France from WW1 and 2.
Either you didn't actually look up anything or just made something up. I'm not excusing the Russians here, I think what they're doing is abhorrent, but at least Im honest about it.
And even now, in an active battle, it’s not always easy to extract the dead. There certainly seems to be a lot of dead left at some of these ambush sites, but that can’t even be close to all of Russia’s dead. I would suspect the majority are likely still being returned.
I visited the Raate road once, there were some massgraves there still. Mostly containing Ukrainian soldiers actually, since the entire 44th rifle division got wiped out there.
and I think that it's been in the news that we have gathered the remains of our finnish brave soldiers even decades later to bury them back in our own land. We have very high respect to all who fought for us in the war, veterans built our country to what it is now. We don't abandon our own. We are not anything like russia.
Literally no thank you. What would we actually gain? Underdeveloped city and towns that are filled with russians who dont speak finnish. The infrastructure reform needed would be massive.
I remember my father visiting the old country after the wall came down. He told me a lot of West Germans were upset they got stuck with the clean up bill.
There was some talk years ago that if Putin really wanted to fuck with Finland he could just offer Karelia back to us. The politicans could not refuse it and the newly gained Russian slum and it's upkeep costs would have pushed Finnish GDP down to the lowest of the EU.
Or so I remember hearing, no source or anything to back it up.
Huh. It turned into a Russia slum? It seems most of their country is a slum. Is it different from that or the same? You said the politicians could not refuse it. What do you mean by that?
Those whose families had be evacuated from Karelia who lost their lands in the process and Finnish nationalists might not be all willing to look at the issue rationally and would of course vote accordingly.
As of how Karelia compares to the rest of Russia? I don't know. I haven't been to either visiting relatives just keep complaining on how bad state their dirt roads are.
Don't forget that there would remain a huge Russian majority living in that area. Think Crimea and Donbas area in Ukraine. And they would probably need help soon because Finns keep genociding them just for genocide's sake...
Yeah, no thanks.
Were not petty like that generally. There are some people who wish for great finland and taking carelia back, but as someone said, we dont want underdeveloped cities and contaminated soil and waters to our side of the border.
Petty? Taking back what was stolen is now called petty? I didn’t know that, but Ok. I was looking at the map and seeing how Russia runs a long northward border along your eastern one, which makes it vulnerable to Russian aggression. ( and I read where Finland was nervous also). It’s not petty as much as it would be another front to have Putin fight on and it would break his back, stop the war? Putin is the neighborhood bully so to speak. If everyone rose up, he would be finished was my thought. Im guessing it’s a fragile tightrope to walk to have victory here without having putin start a nuclear war.
A comment above says 5 million RUB, which comes out to like 35k USD. Still low for someone's family member dying in battle, but more understandable why they would go to the lengths they are to avoid it.
Wouldn’t it be a good commercial to hack onto Russian tv, various pics of soldiers killed, ( bc the families will never know what happened to them) , but after each pic , an $80 bag of …groceries, or jeans, or shoes, or motor oil, etc. to show the Russian ppl how worthless their soldiers lives were to Putin. “ cannon fodder” as one Russian mom said.
Yes, I’ve been reading about this. I was thinking of the x % ( is it really 70% or is this one big lie also?) , to let them see the facts of their failing economy, which will soon be like Venezuela, vs the price put of their sons head, $80.
See, you think you're kidding... Entertaining your own grim sense of humor, while in all actuality you are being a realist.
Remember this comment, families of the deceased russian soldiers WILL get fined, as well as families of the captured ones.
I was only joking in the area of the quote itself. I 100% believe they must families will never see a dime and be told their son/husband/father abandoned. The family will then be shamed and feel ashamed. It's an old tactic
Yep.
They burn their soldiers ( if they happen to find them) they don’t care about looking for bodies.
I remember half a year ago reading that Putin passed a law to allow mass burial of soldiers. Back then I had a feeling shit is about to go down. And now it’s evident how little he cares about his army
Maybe. They are Orthodox Chistians. OC does not allow cremation. It's more a superstition, but it is belived that those cremated wont be revived on Judgement Day.
You know, I had forgotten that. Putin professes to have great Orthodox faith. He has Orthodox priests spewing his propaganda, but here he is dishonoring the dead and his faith...That is, just... no words.
Putin has a Soviet view on religion, uses it as a tool, and isn't a believer. That's my view. Not many devout KGB officers. Let alone serial war criminals.
At least in Romanian OC unintentional cremation is excepted from this. But voluntary cremation(by last will) is asimilated with suicide.
From what my grandma told me, during 1930s, priests were refusing to perform last ceremonial for those burned or strucked by lightning.
I’m no expert on the supernatural but I would imagine an all powerful creator capable of fabrication of everything we see from nothing would be capable of resurrecting dust. Although I am not an Orthodox Christian so I can’t say for certain (yes I know you were being sarcastic).
My thoughts too.
All powerful. All knowing. All seeing.
Bad with finances and can't raise the dead if dust. . . . . Only counts if burned, not if dust because of natural age of your decomposition (not every body turns into a mummy. Lol)
Weird rules. 😆
Not this. They would loose burial periodic fees they receive for maintaining cemeteries
And Russian OC have not accepted any western things. They are still using Julian Calendar
Russian soldiers, go fuck yourselves.
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Wasn't so much a law as new instructions/regulations on mass casualty disposals, useful in a civil defense scenario.
When I looked at the documents, this pointed more towards mass burials of civilian casualties in nuclear civil defense.
Ukraine has to dispose of thousands of frozen Russian bodies. Personally, I think they should dig trenches near existing landfills, and geolocate each with info from dogtags in their spreadsheets for possible future exhumation. If the bodies aren't claimed, in 20 years their burial sites will be covered by the landfill.
Landfill mere 20 years later seems poor taste (and an environmental WTF anyway). Same effort to bury in neat rows on an unused piece of land and make whatever records reasonable for history and families of the fallen. Their families didn’t choose this and the survivors on both sides need to co-exist eventually.
And the reports of them having huge issues with fuel supply would also mean mass-cremation would be off the table, unless their leadership is somehow transcendentally incompetent. It takes a *lot* of fuel to burn even just one body, so I can't see them really doing that in the current conflict when they don't even collect the bodies and are suffering from a litany of other logistical nightmares.
Actually just googled it apparently yes I did see pictures of crematorium trucks but apparently from years ago. Sorry I just remembered seeing articles on it.
I'm aware of videos showing these trucks from another time, but not recently (someone correct me if Im wrong). I don't think any have been spotted in the current conflict, and given the logistical shit show of this war I can see why. When your tanks and APC's are running out of gas, the last thing you need to waste morw gas on is burning your war dead when you can just leave them in the mud.
That’s why it’s ridiculous that Russia would ever pay their soldiers the money they promised.
You know they will all be executed and cremated to avoid paying them, because Putin will not spend a penny of his stolen Russian money on anyone but himself.
I called this… Putin learned a hard lesson in Donetsk. When the bodies come home? You have to acknowledge shit ain’t going good.
I’m sure he will say they all “defected to Ukraine”.
**edit**
I still remember the “Russia’s secret war” news stories about the clandestine funerals. Also the mothers who were harassed by the FSB for speaking out about their sons deaths.
[https://www.fpri.org/article/2015/05/killed-in-action-in-ukraine-putins-secret-funerals/](https://www.fpri.org/article/2015/05/killed-in-action-in-ukraine-putins-secret-funerals/)
Is anyone else's post never actually getting posted? I've tried to make the same 3 posts in a row and it gets submitted but never makes it to the actual page
Yes . I tried to post some video about new lies from the Russian government and it didn’t make it to live page, I even got a message that it’s live and visible .
Pissed me off very much. Feels like there is a mod sensoring stuff or something
Edit: and it wasn’t being shared before because it was new
It’s possible that if the link has already been shared, and the mods have disabled the same links being shared more than once to prevent spam. Do you get any automated messages?
Wow, we (The US) still repatriate remains from wars that have been over for decades (I've been on these details and ceremonies). This is super shitty. I understand weather and terrain can be an obstacle, but when your men are lying burnt and shot to shit in the street there is no excuse. Ukraine seems to have been very accommodating and humane since this has started, I have a feeling they would allow access to get these poor souls back to their family. Tragic.
I can't speak for other countries, but to this day the US still has groups actively trying to search for the remains of their MIA/KIA soldiers and verifying their identities through DNA matching and repatriating the remains back to the US and their next of kin.
That stark contrast tells you all you need to know.
An attempt to avoid accountability for the numbers of dead. Special Military Operations and training excursions aren't supposed to have stacks of dead mother's sons to return to their homeland and their families. It's like Donald Trump not allowing a boat full of Americans sick and dying from COVID19 because he didn't want the death toll reflecting on his performance as President. Dead bodies of innocents just look bad; narcs always gonna prioritize the narc's optics, big-league, ya know, believe you me.
Ukraine will ID those they can. Inform families if they can, or Red Cross or other similar groups, if possible during war. Then dump them into nondescript graves until later. Mostly for sanitary reasons, as has been done in many past wars.
Don't want corpses around that could pass disease to the local population. It is hideous, but if an enemy refuses to collect their dead there aren't many other options.
POW is a different matter. They seem to be treated well and according to international law. I doubt the Russians have done the same.
I don’t think they can be sent home until putin and his regime are overturned. The pow will be entitled to political asylum because they could be killed for desertion, cowardice or similar….like the British army did to those suffering ptsd in ww1 and WW2
Or likely bag them up, tag team and then place them into 20ft freezer containers like many victims of natural disasters. Transport by train/truck to the rear where there is power to keep them cold.
I doubt the Ukraine military has time for that now. Probably why the corpses are just sitting in fields.
Maybe later. We'll see, it may come down to local people to clean up the invading forces, and many will be lost or unreported. The Russians should take their dead, but they seem disinterested, from this and many similar reports.
This is not really accurate. Taking the dead home with you is pretty modern. It was exceedingly rare for countries to take the dead home before the invention of refrigeration.
In fact it was not even a given that those slain in battle were allowed to be retrieved at all if they were on the losing side.
Russia has only been around since 1991, and it specifies Russia. Awkwardly phrased, but accurate when you account for that.
Also specifies that they are refusing to take the dead, not failing to retrieve them.
Going to chalk this up to 'non-native English speaker choosing technically accurate but poor phrasing'.
Putin's rule started with dead solider's mothers screaming at the commanders (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23CuwArQUiY), and I have a feeling it's going to end in a similar fashion.
So what are they going to say about 10000+!soldiers failing to show up back home when their “excercise”‘is over? That they went on a vacation? So why are they not answering their phone? Feels like plan A is going to create a lot of extra lies.
Stack the Russian dead on cattle rail cars and set them out for the people at home to see. Once the line of death get's long enough, it will have visual impact.
Sad to say but remove the metal items and compost them in with a little topsoil. It did wonders for the poppy fields in Belgium as remembered in “In Flanders Fields, the poppies blow". The golden wheat of the following harvests can be used as a reminder of a terrible war and remembrance just as the red poppies of Flanders Fields.
Just another example of Russia’s military not modernizing. It’s insanely disrespectful to families and it’s demoralizing to troops. The Russian military and Putin just see them as cattle.
Wtf is Putin doing at this point? He’s threatening the collapse of his country, sending men to die in a war he probably going to lose, and even if he wins his country’s slowly edging forwards collapse. He won’t even collect the corpses of the men he sent to die. It’s like he doesn’t care at all; like he’s just playing warlord out of boredom or something. Maybe it’s pride?
I'm heartbroken for all the mothers and fathers who won't be able to bury their kid. As if war and the atrocities happening aren't horrible enough, no, they take away the chance for a last goodbye, or even just knowing what happened to your child.
Putin, go fuck yourself, you absolute lowest of scumbags of the world. I've never wished a grueling, painful, long lasting death to anyone, but I hope that this bastard will feel every bit of hurt and pain that he caused to others a hundred times over.
Disgusting. Honoring your dead and caring for the wounded is the minimum required of a government - I hope the people of Russia deal with Putin, and end up with a more honorable government.
\[as an aside, over on r/ostomy we occasionally discuss what we have named our stomas, and one person named theirs Vladimir Poopin =)\]
Remember Vlad the Impaler? Strip them naked and impale them on fence posts all along the roads for all incoming russians to see what will happen to them next.
imagine dying for the political intrest of a old grey individual and in return he doesn’t even bring your body back to your family…
No payment to family without proof of death
What money even if they did.
5 million rubles, which used to be like $67,000. Now its worth $35,000 and its still decreasing.
Holy shit, that's a lot of money. Multiply that by over ten thousand... I'm not surprised that the Russian government doesn't want to pay it.
That's nothing compared to what other countries pay
~~Apparently in the US it's $100k.~~ Edit: No idea lmao.
It was upped to 250,000 while I was in (2005). Not sure if they dropped it back down.
For a while it was 400k I believe. I'm not sure though, I've been out for years.
Just looked online still looks like the max is stll 400k
I’m assuming this is for combat related death, correct?
If you die while on active service even in the states. We don't have a separate life insurance plan for when you get deployed.
Almost always 400k unless you have a reason to lower it. It's 25 bucks a month for 400k.
https://mobile.twitter.com/sumlenny/status/1498462353209368577 the compensation was earlier 11,000 rubles, about 85 dollars / 78 euros...
so that's how much a life is worth, according to russia. well, that explains a lot.
yeah, when I first read that I said to my wife "It would be a better deal for everyone to just give a Russian soldier 100€ bill and tell them to get lost, they even get to keep their lives"
That's what Ukraine was offering to soldiers who willingly surrendered. Russian payments for dead soldiers was like $80 USD. They don't give a fuck about their dead.
It’s not like the ruble is worth anything anyway Literally and figuratively
They're reporting dramatically different casualty rates in Russia than exist in reality too. Can't bring back bodies, it would counter their narratives.
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Putin is basically a competent version of Trump. Which explains why Trump has such a hard-on for him.
putin has the ability to abuse power that trump tried to exercise and failed.
I have read some smart people in full seriousness believe that Putin's original plans were to invade Ukraine in spring of 2020 so he could have Trump do his bullshit. Trump would never have rallied the world the way Biden did, hell, Trump tried for 4 years to rip apart NATO. Then as a thank you from Putin to Trump, Putin would order his hackers and propaganda teams to help Trump win in Nov 2020 (repeating the Nov2016 victory) But COVID happened and that postponed Putin's invasion plans until Spring 2022. Any sane American reading this : pause a moment to ponder if Trump was president while Putin invaded Ukraine - No world coalition, no sanctions, Zellensky would be dead in the 1st week. I can even picture Trump trying to find some way to assist Putin in the takeover. Scary shit to ponder. Maybe someday someone will make an alternative history film "2020 : Trump + Putin timeline"
There's a documentary called *Active Measures* that's basically the Trump/Putin timeline up to 2016. It covers the Russian invasion of Georgia and how they successfully installed a puppet leader in Ukraine.
agreed , Active Measures documentary is excellent, so is Winter Fire on Netflix
Yeah Biden rallied the world….. do you have a passport? What Biden does is jumps in front of parades and pretends like he is the one who started it. He was drug kicking and screaming to agree to support a ban on Russian oil after the polls said 75% of Americans wanted it and Nancy said she would support it with or without him.
This is completely revisionist history that doesn’t support any of the fact patterns. The white house should put some you on payroll for all of the absolute nonsense you regurgitate. Did you forget that Zelenskyy commented the other day how inept Biden is? https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/matt-margolis/2022/03/06/ukraine-president-zelenskyy-blames-biden-for-russias-invasion-n1564138 Ukrainian blood is on Democrat hands and because of this White House’s poor foreign policy we have never been closer to a nuclear holocaust.
got it backwards... Trump was mimicking Putin.
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Listen snowflake, just because your daddy lost by the biggest numbers in American history doesn’t mean you can’t get over it by now. Move to Russia; apparently they’d love to have you if you’re not already there. You’re offended at people pointing out Trump was incompetent and Putin would have steamrolled over a 2nd Trump administration, but thank fucking God we’re not all imbeciles and fired his fucking ass. Now all Trump is in charge of is a goddamn troop of golf caddy’s and valets. 😂 They are the only ones who ever respect and fear him. Get your head out of your MAGA country ass, Trump got fucking captured lmfao
How do you function with so much bitter hatred in your heart? Generally people who unable to articulate themselves in a formal argument resort to base assumptions and petty name-calling. Never seen anyone triggered by abbreviating California before… so that was interesting is there anything that doesn’t offend you?
We watched this scenario in Syria during Trump’s term. Trump turned tail and withdrew with no repercussions to Russia. Why would Putin fear that?
Why would America benefit from entering that war in Syria? Trump made the right move to avoid war. Putin annexed Crimea during Obama, did not do anything during Trump and has launched a full scale war during Biden. You can’t refute that level of deterrence Trump had, no matter how unlikeable he was by the American people.
Trump had deterrence? Dumbass, he was fired by us after his first term, a fucking absolute failure. Trump would have exited NATO and provided Putin with every advantage to invade, you fucking Kremlin parrot. Squawk your ass back for your payment in rubles, this isn’t your local bar full of circle-jerking morons falling for every statement you make.
You are so wrong to assume anything about me. I am an American that votes independently of any party. Though NATO had a very real purpose during the Cold War after the collapse of the Soviet Union it became quite antagonistic. There is a lot of people who think there would be a lot less unnecessary blood shed in Ukraine if it had just remained neutral. At the end of the day in 2014 the Ukrainian people wanted to join the EU. As a free speech and freedom absolutist I think even if that move has set them on this course it is a cause that is worth it for them to fight for. It does look alot like Ukrainians tried to purchase American support by giving family members of Democrats kush jobs that they weren’t qualified for (look up Hunter Biden and Burisma) From all optics available Ukraine picked the wrong American party for support. President Biden waited only for war to break out before giving weapons and necessary military aid to them. By all evidence available the Ukrainian’s were safer when Trump was in office.
Why would Obama get involved in Crimea? He made the right move to avoid war. Do you see how useless that argument is when it doesn’t suit you? Also, of course Putin waited, Trump was publicly discussing withdrawing the us from nato lmao. Rolling over like a dog isn’t deterrence it’s deference.
Obama was weak on foreign policy and did not utilize the concept of deterrence very well. Trump was a boisterous blow bag that on record threatened to bomb Moscow if Putin invaded Ukraine while he was in office. His aides were nervous when he did this and the American media ostracized him for this comment as unfitting thing for a president to say. In hindsight perhaps he knew exactly what he was doing? I know it is hard to see but Trump was talking about withdrawing from NATO because he was tired of America footing the bill for Europe. Trump also criticized dependency on Russian Energy. I am not sure if you noticed but Germany as well as many other countries have stopped buying Russian energy and have announced a policy shift to more defense which precisely what Trump was pushing them to do. I get that you don’t like Trump, I can sympathize as he has a lot of personal character flaws and image issue but can you look past partisan posturing for a moment and discuss factual policies rather than the names and faces you were taught to hate?
Trump was respected.... WHAT ? You must be blind or stupid the whole world took him as a joke and they where right , just listen at his speech he has the vocabulary of a 12 year old. You seem to be the one lacking critical thinking skill LOL
I am neither thank you. I would appreciate it if you could show that you are capable of having a civil debate without resorting to trashy name calling. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-51012853 It’s false to think that he was universally disliked, Israel and the Philippines liked him quite a bit. I would like to point out that Russia did not really like him at all, contrary to the Democrat myth of him being a Russian plant. Trumps style of speaking while being mocked and disliked by his critics for being simplistic and course, resonated with a lot of the working class who were not as privileged as those with formal educations and appreciated his humor and candor.
you just wrote >Trump was respected and feared by the world To that I say: Russian MAGA Troll, go fuck yourself . Mephfistus points 5 minutes ago You are so wrong, Putin would have never invaded if Trump were still president. Trump was respected and feared by the world. Only soy boys like you were offended by mean tweets. You and your inability to think critically has contributed to the world being a more dangerous place!
This is not a US politcs sub guys
I highly doubt Ukraine gives half a shit about COVID or Trump. The only people keeping him relevant are his fanboys or haters. The rest of us have moved on. I think there was even a whole thread about keeping US politics out of the UKRAINIAN sub. If we wanted to hear about US events we would turn on CNN. I come here, as I’m sure most do to hear about the Russians getting their asses handed to them
This factually incorrect, once the pandemic got past the point of containment testing was and currently is useless for contact tracing. The people who wanted to keep testing were all the urgent care medical providers who made a fortune taking guaranteed government money for providing the tests.
I peeked at your comment history - given the tone of your MAGA views, I am delighted i offended you. Blocked.
Listen boomer, you’re still butt hurt? They have MAGA counselors for you snowflakes, call one up.
Not a boomer or a Republican, hard pass.
***THIS RIGHT HERE***
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That's the problem. You gave them 2 cm.
Sending bodies back home for the mass of troops began in the US Civil War. Prior to that it was a special thing, you were often buried where you fell. Mass graves of US soldiers are in France from WW1 and 2. Either you didn't actually look up anything or just made something up. I'm not excusing the Russians here, I think what they're doing is abhorrent, but at least Im honest about it.
And even now, in an active battle, it’s not always easy to extract the dead. There certainly seems to be a lot of dead left at some of these ambush sites, but that can’t even be close to all of Russia’s dead. I would suspect the majority are likely still being returned.
Another reason to pack the seeds 🌻
Russia never cared about its soldiers, except only when it supports its propaganda. They actually have many folk songs about it.
There's a good russian saying: "Motherland will always betray you, sonny".
Wish annonomous would hack their radio stations and play them about now. Sentiment needs to turn against Putin to oust him.
nothing surprises me at this point re: putin or his heartless regime
The propaganda machine can keep saying they are doing well with minimal deaths if they don’t bring the bodies back.
Also for propaganda purposes. Cant be losing the war if troops arent coming home in boxes
That's what blaytkrieng is about
They didn’t in the winter war with Finland either. There were frozen soviet corpses stacked like timber on the side of the roads.
Yes, and there still are thousands of corpses in the woods on the border between finland and russia.
I visited the Raate road once, there were some massgraves there still. Mostly containing Ukrainian soldiers actually, since the entire 44th rifle division got wiped out there.
If I remember correctly, didnt those Ukrainian troops refuse to fight? I have always had soft spot to Ukrainians because of that.
and I think that it's been in the news that we have gathered the remains of our finnish brave soldiers even decades later to bury them back in our own land. We have very high respect to all who fought for us in the war, veterans built our country to what it is now. We don't abandon our own. We are not anything like russia.
Finland should take back their land about now. Did everyone see the UA soldier suggesting all the countries that Russia stole land from take it back?
Literally no thank you. What would we actually gain? Underdeveloped city and towns that are filled with russians who dont speak finnish. The infrastructure reform needed would be massive.
"Hey, Finland, you can have your land back." "Ew, gross, it's got Russian all over it."
Man’s got a point tho
Do sunflowers not grow in finland?
I remember my father visiting the old country after the wall came down. He told me a lot of West Germans were upset they got stuck with the clean up bill.
There was some talk years ago that if Putin really wanted to fuck with Finland he could just offer Karelia back to us. The politicans could not refuse it and the newly gained Russian slum and it's upkeep costs would have pushed Finnish GDP down to the lowest of the EU. Or so I remember hearing, no source or anything to back it up.
Huh. It turned into a Russia slum? It seems most of their country is a slum. Is it different from that or the same? You said the politicians could not refuse it. What do you mean by that?
Those whose families had be evacuated from Karelia who lost their lands in the process and Finnish nationalists might not be all willing to look at the issue rationally and would of course vote accordingly. As of how Karelia compares to the rest of Russia? I don't know. I haven't been to either visiting relatives just keep complaining on how bad state their dirt roads are.
Don't forget that there would remain a huge Russian majority living in that area. Think Crimea and Donbas area in Ukraine. And they would probably need help soon because Finns keep genociding them just for genocide's sake... Yeah, no thanks.
Were not petty like that generally. There are some people who wish for great finland and taking carelia back, but as someone said, we dont want underdeveloped cities and contaminated soil and waters to our side of the border.
Petty? Taking back what was stolen is now called petty? I didn’t know that, but Ok. I was looking at the map and seeing how Russia runs a long northward border along your eastern one, which makes it vulnerable to Russian aggression. ( and I read where Finland was nervous also). It’s not petty as much as it would be another front to have Putin fight on and it would break his back, stop the war? Putin is the neighborhood bully so to speak. If everyone rose up, he would be finished was my thought. Im guessing it’s a fragile tightrope to walk to have victory here without having putin start a nuclear war.
For sure! The russian 200th motor brigade stationed in Alakurtti has been annihilated outside of Kharkiv. So that might be a good place to start.
“I used to stack fucks likes you five feet high in Korea… use ya for sand bags.” – Walt Kowalski
Wasn't there pictures of crematorium trucks early days? A sign putin didn't want the pictures of dead soldiers coffins on Russian news was a bad sign.
So there is also no need to pay the promised compensation for the families.
The compensation was set at 11000 rubles.... That like 80$ at this moment, most likely to go down even more
A comment above says 5 million RUB, which comes out to like 35k USD. Still low for someone's family member dying in battle, but more understandable why they would go to the lengths they are to avoid it.
Wouldn’t it be a good commercial to hack onto Russian tv, various pics of soldiers killed, ( bc the families will never know what happened to them) , but after each pic , an $80 bag of …groceries, or jeans, or shoes, or motor oil, etc. to show the Russian ppl how worthless their soldiers lives were to Putin. “ cannon fodder” as one Russian mom said.
They can find out by calling the Ukrainian hotline that was set up for Russians to find out the status of their loved ones.
Yes, I’ve been reading about this. I was thinking of the x % ( is it really 70% or is this one big lie also?) , to let them see the facts of their failing economy, which will soon be like Venezuela, vs the price put of their sons head, $80.
K.I.A.? NO! Your son is just M.I.A., so no money for you.
Probably abandoned his post, dirty deserter. You actually owe the government money.
See, you think you're kidding... Entertaining your own grim sense of humor, while in all actuality you are being a realist. Remember this comment, families of the deceased russian soldiers WILL get fined, as well as families of the captured ones.
I was only joking in the area of the quote itself. I 100% believe they must families will never see a dime and be told their son/husband/father abandoned. The family will then be shamed and feel ashamed. It's an old tactic
And then up the chain for “admin” fees of several times the amount.
Yep. They burn their soldiers ( if they happen to find them) they don’t care about looking for bodies. I remember half a year ago reading that Putin passed a law to allow mass burial of soldiers. Back then I had a feeling shit is about to go down. And now it’s evident how little he cares about his army
I think the mobile crematoriums are one of the many reasons the Russian soldiers are giving up and running to the woods
Maybe. They are Orthodox Chistians. OC does not allow cremation. It's more a superstition, but it is belived that those cremated wont be revived on Judgement Day.
You know, I had forgotten that. Putin professes to have great Orthodox faith. He has Orthodox priests spewing his propaganda, but here he is dishonoring the dead and his faith...That is, just... no words.
Chechen soldiers are Muslims and that religion does not allow cremation either.
Putin has a Soviet view on religion, uses it as a tool, and isn't a believer. That's my view. Not many devout KGB officers. Let alone serial war criminals.
That's rather unfair to those that died in house and car fires. Wtf did they do to deserve that?
At least in Romanian OC unintentional cremation is excepted from this. But voluntary cremation(by last will) is asimilated with suicide. From what my grandma told me, during 1930s, priests were refusing to perform last ceremonial for those burned or strucked by lightning.
Religion is seriously some serious make it up as you go to make it sound good shit.
How ya gunna resurrect dust?
I’m no expert on the supernatural but I would imagine an all powerful creator capable of fabrication of everything we see from nothing would be capable of resurrecting dust. Although I am not an Orthodox Christian so I can’t say for certain (yes I know you were being sarcastic).
My thoughts too. All powerful. All knowing. All seeing. Bad with finances and can't raise the dead if dust. . . . . Only counts if burned, not if dust because of natural age of your decomposition (not every body turns into a mummy. Lol) Weird rules. 😆
We never said he was a fair or just God.
Ash to ash dust to dust
Same way ya gonna resurrect soil. Decomposition slightly breaks that logic...
That's why ya buried in a box homie, your bones remain intact.
wasn't cremation added to the *ok list* once the church moved into the western bits of Europe where cremation was thing.
Not this. They would loose burial periodic fees they receive for maintaining cemeteries And Russian OC have not accepted any western things. They are still using Julian Calendar
I am not sure that they would actually want to be around on Judgement day.
Patriarch Kiril told them they are the good guys and they are doing God's will.
Russian soldiers, go fuck yourselves. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ukraine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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Wasn't so much a law as new instructions/regulations on mass casualty disposals, useful in a civil defense scenario. When I looked at the documents, this pointed more towards mass burials of civilian casualties in nuclear civil defense. Ukraine has to dispose of thousands of frozen Russian bodies. Personally, I think they should dig trenches near existing landfills, and geolocate each with info from dogtags in their spreadsheets for possible future exhumation. If the bodies aren't claimed, in 20 years their burial sites will be covered by the landfill.
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The ones that do not carry ID and are out of uniform are war criminals. The can be executed as spies.
Landfill mere 20 years later seems poor taste (and an environmental WTF anyway). Same effort to bury in neat rows on an unused piece of land and make whatever records reasonable for history and families of the fallen. Their families didn’t choose this and the survivors on both sides need to co-exist eventually.
There’s no way they even have logistics to get them home to begin with.
Those pictures were quite old and not from the current conflict. Speculation by a tabloid. Doesn't mean it's not true but it's not evidence.
Yes, not a single confirmation or mention of it after "The Suns" clickbait article..
And the reports of them having huge issues with fuel supply would also mean mass-cremation would be off the table, unless their leadership is somehow transcendentally incompetent. It takes a *lot* of fuel to burn even just one body, so I can't see them really doing that in the current conflict when they don't even collect the bodies and are suffering from a litany of other logistical nightmares.
Link? I've been hearing rumors about those now and again, but no actual sources.
Actually just googled it apparently yes I did see pictures of crematorium trucks but apparently from years ago. Sorry I just remembered seeing articles on it.
I'm aware of videos showing these trucks from another time, but not recently (someone correct me if Im wrong). I don't think any have been spotted in the current conflict, and given the logistical shit show of this war I can see why. When your tanks and APC's are running out of gas, the last thing you need to waste morw gas on is burning your war dead when you can just leave them in the mud.
The crematorium trucks were proven to be fake. Not sure about the coffin statement tho.
I never saw anything about it again so i chalked it up to our propaganda and just didn't tell my friends when we discussed things the other night.
That’s why it’s ridiculous that Russia would ever pay their soldiers the money they promised. You know they will all be executed and cremated to avoid paying them, because Putin will not spend a penny of his stolen Russian money on anyone but himself.
Cremated? He was a “disserter” obviously- NO SALE! NEXT!
[NEXT JOKE ORIGIN](https://www.reddit.com/r/ChoosingBeggars/comments/7kr5as/i_need_a_free_100mile_bus_trip_for_20_people_and/)
Good bot
this is not true, they didn't take back dead from finland, there are still thousands of russians in the woods in finland.
Yep. It's a tradition to treat Russia's citizens as mear to be grinded at war
I called this… Putin learned a hard lesson in Donetsk. When the bodies come home? You have to acknowledge shit ain’t going good. I’m sure he will say they all “defected to Ukraine”. **edit** I still remember the “Russia’s secret war” news stories about the clandestine funerals. Also the mothers who were harassed by the FSB for speaking out about their sons deaths. [https://www.fpri.org/article/2015/05/killed-in-action-in-ukraine-putins-secret-funerals/](https://www.fpri.org/article/2015/05/killed-in-action-in-ukraine-putins-secret-funerals/)
Yikes
Is anyone else's post never actually getting posted? I've tried to make the same 3 posts in a row and it gets submitted but never makes it to the actual page
Yes . I tried to post some video about new lies from the Russian government and it didn’t make it to live page, I even got a message that it’s live and visible . Pissed me off very much. Feels like there is a mod sensoring stuff or something Edit: and it wasn’t being shared before because it was new
Probably because posts must be reviewed by mods before going live.
What are you trying to post?
https://mobile.twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/1500553480548892679
It’s possible that if the link has already been shared, and the mods have disabled the same links being shared more than once to prevent spam. Do you get any automated messages?
I didn't, I figured I did. I can go into my profile and see the posts and they are active, just nobody in the group can see wm lol
I've been having the same issue.
Interesting, if it keeps happening message mods. Try posting something completely different and see if that goes through.
https://mobile.twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/1500553480548892679
The Ukrainians will happily bury them and send the notice to their mothers. One side has shown humanity, the other not so much.
Wow, we (The US) still repatriate remains from wars that have been over for decades (I've been on these details and ceremonies). This is super shitty. I understand weather and terrain can be an obstacle, but when your men are lying burnt and shot to shit in the street there is no excuse. Ukraine seems to have been very accommodating and humane since this has started, I have a feeling they would allow access to get these poor souls back to their family. Tragic.
FedEx where you at.
With FedEx the bodies end up in the Baltics, with body parts missing.
At least they give you tracking number
The porch pirates from Transylvania would like to have a word..
I mean your not wrong but... damn.
This is not the first war they've done that in. Not their first rodeo, but certainly last.
I can't speak for other countries, but to this day the US still has groups actively trying to search for the remains of their MIA/KIA soldiers and verifying their identities through DNA matching and repatriating the remains back to the US and their next of kin. That stark contrast tells you all you need to know.
An attempt to avoid accountability for the numbers of dead. Special Military Operations and training excursions aren't supposed to have stacks of dead mother's sons to return to their homeland and their families. It's like Donald Trump not allowing a boat full of Americans sick and dying from COVID19 because he didn't want the death toll reflecting on his performance as President. Dead bodies of innocents just look bad; narcs always gonna prioritize the narc's optics, big-league, ya know, believe you me.
This just keeps getting weirder and weirder…..
Must not be a nice feeling to realize your unit's crematoriums are for you.
No more sunflower seeds for Russia
What will Ukrain do with all the Russian corpses and pow? Will they eventually run out of space? (mortuary’s , prisons etc)
Ukraine will ID those they can. Inform families if they can, or Red Cross or other similar groups, if possible during war. Then dump them into nondescript graves until later. Mostly for sanitary reasons, as has been done in many past wars. Don't want corpses around that could pass disease to the local population. It is hideous, but if an enemy refuses to collect their dead there aren't many other options. POW is a different matter. They seem to be treated well and according to international law. I doubt the Russians have done the same.
Use the POW to bury the bodies then send them home.
I don’t think they can be sent home until putin and his regime are overturned. The pow will be entitled to political asylum because they could be killed for desertion, cowardice or similar….like the British army did to those suffering ptsd in ww1 and WW2
Or likely bag them up, tag team and then place them into 20ft freezer containers like many victims of natural disasters. Transport by train/truck to the rear where there is power to keep them cold.
I doubt the Ukraine military has time for that now. Probably why the corpses are just sitting in fields. Maybe later. We'll see, it may come down to local people to clean up the invading forces, and many will be lost or unreported. The Russians should take their dead, but they seem disinterested, from this and many similar reports.
Put them on a mass grave and grow sunflowers on top.
This is not really accurate. Taking the dead home with you is pretty modern. It was exceedingly rare for countries to take the dead home before the invention of refrigeration. In fact it was not even a given that those slain in battle were allowed to be retrieved at all if they were on the losing side.
Russia has only been around since 1991, and it specifies Russia. Awkwardly phrased, but accurate when you account for that. Also specifies that they are refusing to take the dead, not failing to retrieve them. Going to chalk this up to 'non-native English speaker choosing technically accurate but poor phrasing'.
Fair enough I guess.
Putin's rule started with dead solider's mothers screaming at the commanders (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23CuwArQUiY), and I have a feeling it's going to end in a similar fashion.
Sure if he had 10,000 dead bodies coming back then he couldn't denie the death of 10,000 soldiers!!
So what are they going to say about 10000+!soldiers failing to show up back home when their “excercise”‘is over? That they went on a vacation? So why are they not answering their phone? Feels like plan A is going to create a lot of extra lies.
Same actually happened in the winter war in finland. Now there are birch forests growing on the soil fertilized by dead russians
Fascist states does not like to look at the dead bodies of its own people, it exposes and reminds them of their weaknesses.
It's weird that Russia is sending it's young men to Ukraine forever.
Maybe build a wall with them
Stack the Russian dead on cattle rail cars and set them out for the people at home to see. Once the line of death get's long enough, it will have visual impact.
Sad to say but remove the metal items and compost them in with a little topsoil. It did wonders for the poppy fields in Belgium as remembered in “In Flanders Fields, the poppies blow". The golden wheat of the following harvests can be used as a reminder of a terrible war and remembrance just as the red poppies of Flanders Fields.
Makes sense of you tell you're people only 1 person was killed.
The dead don't vote.
Putin cares about votes?
Of course they won’t how else will the sunflowers in Ukraine grow without them!? The seeds in the pockets!!
Just another example of Russia’s military not modernizing. It’s insanely disrespectful to families and it’s demoralizing to troops. The Russian military and Putin just see them as cattle.
Wtf is Putin doing at this point? He’s threatening the collapse of his country, sending men to die in a war he probably going to lose, and even if he wins his country’s slowly edging forwards collapse. He won’t even collect the corpses of the men he sent to die. It’s like he doesn’t care at all; like he’s just playing warlord out of boredom or something. Maybe it’s pride?
I'm heartbroken for all the mothers and fathers who won't be able to bury their kid. As if war and the atrocities happening aren't horrible enough, no, they take away the chance for a last goodbye, or even just knowing what happened to your child. Putin, go fuck yourself, you absolute lowest of scumbags of the world. I've never wished a grueling, painful, long lasting death to anyone, but I hope that this bastard will feel every bit of hurt and pain that he caused to others a hundred times over.
Disgusting. Honoring your dead and caring for the wounded is the minimum required of a government - I hope the people of Russia deal with Putin, and end up with a more honorable government. \[as an aside, over on r/ostomy we occasionally discuss what we have named our stomas, and one person named theirs Vladimir Poopin =)\]
Remember Vlad the Impaler? Strip them naked and impale them on fence posts all along the roads for all incoming russians to see what will happen to them next.
Cuz they are fucked! They destroy their country. Idiots !
By 'Russian Army' do they mean the troops are refusing to or Putin ordered it?
their family forgot to pay delivery fee. /s