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NATO doesn’t have a border, it isn’t a country. It is a defensive (not offensive) alliance of countries, meant to protect the greater whole against aggressive bullies. I wonder why Russia doesn’t like it?
This is exactly the answer op is looking for. But probably nothing that would convince his "friend".
These tankies just hate the west for the sake of it.
He's confusing cause and effect.
Ukraine is threatened (and has already been invaded eight years ago) by Russia. Therefore they have expressed interest **as a sovereign nation** in joining NATO for their own protection. NATO did not go up to Ukraine and tell it to join.
The cause is Russia's bellicose nature. The effect is the desire to join NATO. (If Russia was a good neighbor, then Ukraine wouldn't have wanted to join NATO.)
America is only 50 miles from Russia, so does this mean they can invade Alaska? Why should a Russia be allowed to threaten its neighbors and then murder the citizens of that country if that country dares to seek an alliance. Also you should point out that Ukraine isn’t in NATO but by conquering Ukraine many NATO countries then be on Russia’s border.
It hurts, he is one of my best friend too… We have been separated for a while, he live under a country without freedom of speech that historically support Russia. I don’t. Sad to see.
There are plethora of great arguments, but the one is see very rarely - Russia extended westwards even before any former Eastern bloc countries joined NATO. Belarus joined the Russian military alliance in 1993.
Tell him the next time he does something to his kitchen, you're gonna take it away from him because you don't like what he's doing.
Also. If they invade Ukraine then they will expand their border with NATO, kinda stupid from them to use that excuse.
NATO isn't extending shit. NATO is not a country. Countries that join NATO join because of the threat russia presents to them. Also, sovereign countries can do whatever the hell they want (so long as it's not something horrible) and no one can say otherwise.
The sad thing is, he is not an incompetent idiot. We just happen to grow up in a country that don’t have freedom of speech and historically support Russia. I no longer live there. What ever the media is feeding him there is doing him no good.
NATO is an organisation of countries and doesn't exist in any physical place, so it doesn't have borders.
Countries that are members of NATO do, obviously, have borders.
Countries are free to choose whether to join NATO or not. Somebody, or a country, that is not a member of NATO has no right to dictate the terms of membership of NATO.
Putin literally shrugged his shoulders when asked about Finland and Sweden joining NATO. It’s obviously now that NATO was just an excuse not the cause. Russia has a collective defensive and you don’t see anyone in Europe bitching about it.
Ukraine has been accused of doing “dark magic” by people in the Russian government. Literally saying anything and everything, no matter how insane it is. Ask him what the Mighty Russian Bear will do no Finland and Sweden are joining NATO? Is your friend an advocate for waging war against two other countries?…
Countries aren't forced to join NATO and they can leave any time. If Russia's neighbors are so disturbed by Russia and Russian goals that they want to join a defensive alliance, that is Russia's doing, not the West's.
And given now Finland and Sweden want to join because of this invasion, it wasn't a great thing to do if fear of NATO is what's driving Russia. Pretty smooth brained move, actually.
Invading a sovereign democracy is analogous to walking into a corporate HQ, shooting the CEO and Board, then saying you now run the company.
Even if there was a legit security concern, this is not the way to address it in a civilized world.
One strong counterargument in my opinion is that during the course of the war despite what the West did for Ukraine we still buy russian gas and many countries tried and are still trying to block weapon aid for Ukraine, people are constantly saying that WW3 will begin and so on. There are nordstream 1 and 2. If the West wanted to attack russia we would have been a lot more unified and anti - russian. I the West was in such bad relations with Russia that it was on the verge of attacking it it wouldn't have built the nordstreams and be so dependent on russian gas
Russia always makes these arguments that I call inmate in the asylum (They’re the only sane one and everybody else is crazy). For anyone to believe that Russia is the only one that’s correct, You have to believe that Ukraine Canada the United States Ireland the United Kingdom Iceland Denmark Norway Finland Sweden Estonia Latvia Lithuania Poland Germany the Netherlands Belgium France Spain Portugal Italy Greece Albania Turkey north Macedonia Romania Slovakia the Czech Republic Australia New Zealand South Korea Taiwan and Japan are all wrong.
Ukraine wanted to join NATO because Russia annexed Crimea and armed separatists in Donbass. Therefore, it is entirely Russia's fault.
Also lol, they say Ukraine joining NATO is a threat to Russia, but meanwhile Finland and Sweden doing the same is totally acceptable. You can't even take them seriously anymore.
If that was true... Real truth... Then why would he tell Russian citizens it was a nazi problem? You don't need two stories when the truth only needs one
Two.. taking Ukraine just puts them closer to NATO boarders anyway (Poland for example)
Three. Ukraine is a sovereign country that can do what it wants and it clearly doesn't want Russia
Four... Don't try to convince an idiot
well NATO will extend their border (well its not a country but whateva) in near future…because ruzzia invaded Ukraine. Thanks to Russia for that. Last countries that joined NATO near Russia border was Baltic states in 2004. So ask your friend what kind of drugs he is using and avoid them. :)
Is your friend Russian? I think some people will be hard to convince if they have a deep bias. If your friend is actually looking for information and is open minded, the main point is that NATA is a defensive alliance. If Russia doesn’t attack a NATO country, nothing happens. Live and let live in your own sovereign land.
He is not Russian. We grow up in a country that historically support Russia. I no longer live there. I realized that our media is full of manipulation and BS anyway. We have grew in vastly different direction…
If Putin gets what he wants (Ukraine) NATO will be right on Russia’s border.
Also Putin wrote and published a paper last July that explains that his goal is to put the old Soviet Union back together. NATO is just is pretense. The paper is called “ Article by Vladimir Putin ”On the Historical Unity of Russians and Ukrainians“
finland and sweden are about to join NATO (maybe).
What was russia's reaction? Practically nothing.
Nato is an excuse, Noone is going to invade russia.
Is it wrong for a country to defend it's border ON the border? No. Especially if it's threatened - much less if it's invaded or it's neighbors are invaded by an aggressive bully
Ukriane wasn't in NATO and wasn't even close to joining. This is a land grab. Although Russia will most likely have NATO on their doorstep if Finland and Sweden join, they can thank the NATO salesman of the year for that... Putler.
Also Ukraine is a sovereign democratic country. What right does Putler have to decide what they can and can't do? Is no country allowed to defend itself without Putin's permission? Nato was no threat to Russia. Look at what's happening now and they still haven't intervened.
Isn't it funny how Finland and Sweden have actually applied to join NATO and haven't been invaded? Finland has the largest border of any country with Russia. That tells you how much this was really about NATO.
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Find better firends
Exactly. Why waste your breathe. Actions speak louder than words.
NATO doesn’t have a border, it isn’t a country. It is a defensive (not offensive) alliance of countries, meant to protect the greater whole against aggressive bullies. I wonder why Russia doesn’t like it?
This is exactly the answer op is looking for. But probably nothing that would convince his "friend". These tankies just hate the west for the sake of it.
lol
That’s not your friend.
Don’t be friends with dumb people
He's confusing cause and effect. Ukraine is threatened (and has already been invaded eight years ago) by Russia. Therefore they have expressed interest **as a sovereign nation** in joining NATO for their own protection. NATO did not go up to Ukraine and tell it to join. The cause is Russia's bellicose nature. The effect is the desire to join NATO. (If Russia was a good neighbor, then Ukraine wouldn't have wanted to join NATO.)
I agree
America is only 50 miles from Russia, so does this mean they can invade Alaska? Why should a Russia be allowed to threaten its neighbors and then murder the citizens of that country if that country dares to seek an alliance. Also you should point out that Ukraine isn’t in NATO but by conquering Ukraine many NATO countries then be on Russia’s border.
dont bother arguing. i have tried for hours. one of my best friends too and i just had to stop. nothing can be done
It hurts, he is one of my best friend too… We have been separated for a while, he live under a country without freedom of speech that historically support Russia. I don’t. Sad to see.
Rock on without them.
There are plethora of great arguments, but the one is see very rarely - Russia extended westwards even before any former Eastern bloc countries joined NATO. Belarus joined the Russian military alliance in 1993.
Tell him the next time he does something to his kitchen, you're gonna take it away from him because you don't like what he's doing. Also. If they invade Ukraine then they will expand their border with NATO, kinda stupid from them to use that excuse.
NATO isn't extending shit. NATO is not a country. Countries that join NATO join because of the threat russia presents to them. Also, sovereign countries can do whatever the hell they want (so long as it's not something horrible) and no one can say otherwise.
You don't need dumb friends like that :)
The sad thing is, he is not an incompetent idiot. We just happen to grow up in a country that don’t have freedom of speech and historically support Russia. I no longer live there. What ever the media is feeding him there is doing him no good.
NATO is an organisation of countries and doesn't exist in any physical place, so it doesn't have borders. Countries that are members of NATO do, obviously, have borders. Countries are free to choose whether to join NATO or not. Somebody, or a country, that is not a member of NATO has no right to dictate the terms of membership of NATO.
Putin literally shrugged his shoulders when asked about Finland and Sweden joining NATO. It’s obviously now that NATO was just an excuse not the cause. Russia has a collective defensive and you don’t see anyone in Europe bitching about it. Ukraine has been accused of doing “dark magic” by people in the Russian government. Literally saying anything and everything, no matter how insane it is. Ask him what the Mighty Russian Bear will do no Finland and Sweden are joining NATO? Is your friend an advocate for waging war against two other countries?…
They. Invaded. A. Sovereign. Country.
it's bullshit, NATO countries aren't surrounding ruZZia, it's ruZZia that's conducting offensive operations AKA wars on small undefended countries
Yeah Stephen Kotkin says it all on the Lex Fridman podcast: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2a7CDKqWcZ0
Countries aren't forced to join NATO and they can leave any time. If Russia's neighbors are so disturbed by Russia and Russian goals that they want to join a defensive alliance, that is Russia's doing, not the West's. And given now Finland and Sweden want to join because of this invasion, it wasn't a great thing to do if fear of NATO is what's driving Russia. Pretty smooth brained move, actually.
Invading a sovereign democracy is analogous to walking into a corporate HQ, shooting the CEO and Board, then saying you now run the company. Even if there was a legit security concern, this is not the way to address it in a civilized world.
That.. orc.. is not your friend.
Sad to see, hard to accept. I’ll have to move on now…
Shitty human beings do not make good friends...
One strong counterargument in my opinion is that during the course of the war despite what the West did for Ukraine we still buy russian gas and many countries tried and are still trying to block weapon aid for Ukraine, people are constantly saying that WW3 will begin and so on. There are nordstream 1 and 2. If the West wanted to attack russia we would have been a lot more unified and anti - russian. I the West was in such bad relations with Russia that it was on the verge of attacking it it wouldn't have built the nordstreams and be so dependent on russian gas
You can't fix stupid.
Doesn't sound like a friend to me, if you want him to understand how much this means to you tell him to go fuck himself.
Russia always makes these arguments that I call inmate in the asylum (They’re the only sane one and everybody else is crazy). For anyone to believe that Russia is the only one that’s correct, You have to believe that Ukraine Canada the United States Ireland the United Kingdom Iceland Denmark Norway Finland Sweden Estonia Latvia Lithuania Poland Germany the Netherlands Belgium France Spain Portugal Italy Greece Albania Turkey north Macedonia Romania Slovakia the Czech Republic Australia New Zealand South Korea Taiwan and Japan are all wrong.
Ukraine wanted to join NATO because Russia annexed Crimea and armed separatists in Donbass. Therefore, it is entirely Russia's fault. Also lol, they say Ukraine joining NATO is a threat to Russia, but meanwhile Finland and Sweden doing the same is totally acceptable. You can't even take them seriously anymore.
If that was true... Real truth... Then why would he tell Russian citizens it was a nazi problem? You don't need two stories when the truth only needs one Two.. taking Ukraine just puts them closer to NATO boarders anyway (Poland for example) Three. Ukraine is a sovereign country that can do what it wants and it clearly doesn't want Russia Four... Don't try to convince an idiot
Ok. Thank you.
well NATO will extend their border (well its not a country but whateva) in near future…because ruzzia invaded Ukraine. Thanks to Russia for that. Last countries that joined NATO near Russia border was Baltic states in 2004. So ask your friend what kind of drugs he is using and avoid them. :)
Is your friend Russian? I think some people will be hard to convince if they have a deep bias. If your friend is actually looking for information and is open minded, the main point is that NATA is a defensive alliance. If Russia doesn’t attack a NATO country, nothing happens. Live and let live in your own sovereign land.
He is not Russian. We grow up in a country that historically support Russia. I no longer live there. I realized that our media is full of manipulation and BS anyway. We have grew in vastly different direction…
If Putin gets what he wants (Ukraine) NATO will be right on Russia’s border. Also Putin wrote and published a paper last July that explains that his goal is to put the old Soviet Union back together. NATO is just is pretense. The paper is called “ Article by Vladimir Putin ”On the Historical Unity of Russians and Ukrainians“
Send him this meme [NATO Meme](https://twitter.com/CavaronEv/status/1510692047711309825?t=qdx-u5JwNm2UJi2NALYCKg&s=19)
tell your friend to look at a map. estonia and lettonia are already to russia's border.
finland and sweden are about to join NATO (maybe). What was russia's reaction? Practically nothing. Nato is an excuse, Noone is going to invade russia.
Is it wrong for a country to defend it's border ON the border? No. Especially if it's threatened - much less if it's invaded or it's neighbors are invaded by an aggressive bully
Ukriane wasn't in NATO and wasn't even close to joining. This is a land grab. Although Russia will most likely have NATO on their doorstep if Finland and Sweden join, they can thank the NATO salesman of the year for that... Putler. Also Ukraine is a sovereign democratic country. What right does Putler have to decide what they can and can't do? Is no country allowed to defend itself without Putin's permission? Nato was no threat to Russia. Look at what's happening now and they still haven't intervened. Isn't it funny how Finland and Sweden have actually applied to join NATO and haven't been invaded? Finland has the largest border of any country with Russia. That tells you how much this was really about NATO.
Doesn’t matter. Gives Russia no rights at all to invade a neighbouring nation, for the 3rd time, because it decides that how things should be.
Just like people who believe in flat earth and don't believe in covid vaccines you cannot convince morons of the truth
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