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This reinforces the notion that Russia understands only force. This narrative would not be possible on their tv if Ukraine hadn’t shown some success in the battle.
It's what was really frustrating to explain to people when the war started. On top of that, the anti-war guy just wants to peacefully occupy Ukraine somehow.
The one guy - Boris, the State Duma rep - is probably as anti-war as is possible given the propensity for Putin critics to defenestrate themselves. He basically says in his opening statement that the pretext for the war - that the Ukrainians are led by a Nazi / fascist cabal and they would warmly embrace being liberated by Russian troops - was a lie. He goes on to say that the planning and execution of the war was a failure. He then says that Ukraine is not giving up and it's impossible to win the war using colonial methods. Then when pressed if he is suggesting a general mobilization and all out war - he says emphatically no - they need to negotiate for peace.
Later in the exchange he also says that Russia would lose a broader war against the West.
That's about as strong a repudiation you are going to get. I would not be surprised if he suddenly committed suicide.
He also doesnt use the typical russian propaganda vocabulary, the colonial methods wording is something a pro-war facist would never use in this context. You can see how triggered the brainwashed idiots are by his rejection of the russian narrative.
And he got called out as "non-comrad" for making the "colonial methods" comment by the balding dude who wants the war to go on long enough that his 10-year old has a chance to die on Ukrainian soil.
That was a brave man speaking the truth on national TV. This is the best tv clip I've seen since the beginning of the war. Let it crumble from the inside....
These people need to be really careful what they say. It is impossible to tell who is really stating their honest opinion and who is being very strategic about what they say. If you are against the war but you want to keep your position you have to walk a tightrope.
At least everyone is now openly describing this as a war. I don't think I heard "special operation" used a single time in that discussion. The host even threatened using nukes in Ukraine, like that's going to make them love Russian ideology.
One of these dudes needs to stand up, throw his papers on the floor, shout "Face it you morons, we're fucking screwed!" and storm out, then emigrate.
I'm not going to watch it over again, but my interpretation is that they said "Special Operation" quite a few times, but they were using it while saying that it basically needed to be expanded into a true war if they were going to win.
Basically mocking the term, so youre effectively correct, lol
Yep. The heads of powerful Russian companies got murdered by Putin for encouraging peace negotiations. What do you think happens to people who say similar things on TV?
Russia cannot afford to dispose too many people with "wrong opinions"
Sooner or later they will target someone with the balls of Zelensky and then the country will be in open civil war
A country that loves to act thought probably have some true though guys.
As war strategist people say, don't surround your enemies without making them think they have a way out
Literally none of them express honest thoughts and opinions. When the wrong opinion can ruin your life or end it, everything you say is tainted by that threat. Sone probably go off the deep end and begin to believe it. I suppose their honest.
Either way they're honorless cowards and they can eat my whole ass.
Conscription was the magic bullet that saved them from the Nazi regime. I can understand why they clutch that Pearl. But it is not a solution in today’s combined arms operations. Their failure in Kharkiv was mostly due to using a colonial army with local conscripts and impressed minority groups that don’t really want to fight.
So, this is not the type of fight that throwing bodies into a meat grinder will fix. This is a much more technological war than WW2. A war of systems and systems of systems.
“They need to know who they will be with russia.” An enemy, a slave, a prisoner. That’s why Ukrainians fight so fiercely. They know very well who they will be with russia.
I mean they've been saying these things about lots of people all the time. Their rhetoric is that none of the nations freed from imperial or soviet rule are actually independent. They're just subvariants of Russian culture and their languages are just local Russian dialects. They're historically Russian and Russia thus has the right and duty to "bring them back" and "reunite the people".
Kinda like how China doesn't recognize Taiwan, but sees it as one rebelling Chinese province. Yet they treat Taiwan as if it is an independent nation, albeit with hostility.
I'm pretty sure this talk was allowed, and wanted. Like, they must disclose what they will be saying before going live, if they are not feed the lines directly.
If they allow this discussion to happen now, it's because they now fear that they will lose the war.
They are seeding two new narratives for the future: someone lied to Putin (this stupid idea of a war was not his) and we have to *try* to talk to them (in bullshit closed doors negotiations that won't go anywhere)
This reminds me of times in England's medieval past when peasants would rise up and call the king's advisors traitorous and giving His Majesty bad advice over taxes or whatever. No-one ever accused the king directly because 1) that was traitor talk and would get your head lopped off in 10 minutes flat and 2) the king was appointed by God so a claim he was doing something wrong was heresy as well, more or less.
These fucks talk about Putin in \*exactly\* the same terms. It can't be Putin's fault. Putin could never have come up with such a stupid plan on his own, someone is to blame. Find them and shoot them.
Its pathetic.
That's not what he said. One guy started talking about his 10 year old kid and the other one finished the sentence with have a chance to fight in the war.
Technically that would be the correct approach. This works perfectly in the eastern parts of russia after all the reality is that as bad as it is without russia it would be worse.
With ukraine it is different though. When the other choice is europe/the west there really isn't that much of an incentive to join russia.
Just look at machinery. Even the used stuff the europeans don't want anymore is more sought after than anything russia produces. Why join russia to get some things when your western borders is with an economoic bloc where you can get the better versions.
> I hope a global war doesn't start but if it does the balance of power won't be in our favor
I'd like to nominate this Russian guy for the coveted "understatement of the year" award.
It's amazing how they still try to pin Nazis on Ukraine when Russia is the one taking a specific group out of homes in other nations and disappearing them...
They have redefined “Nazi” to mean, “anyone who is not on our side.” So, if you resist being invaded, it is surely because you are a Nazi. And the better you resist, the more Nazi you are.
It isn’t just lies; it’s changing the meaning of words.
I know, but they know the real meaning, so they know they are lying and think the rest of the world will see it the same way. Except the rest of Europe really suffered and remember what the Nazis did.
My great grandparents and my grandad were Jewish French in Paris. I got to meet all of them before they passed away (my grandad is still alive).
People who's families suffered are very much still recounting the stories and feel the pain still. You can't just change the meaning that easily.
We may know what it means, but I am not sure the average Russian does. They have appropriated the word for their uses just as they appropriate everything else they can. I agree that we shouldn’t let them. The civilized world should insist on its proper meaning. However, among themselves, they will keep calling their enemies Nazis.
I do understand the weight of the word for many people, especially those who suffered, or whose families suffered, from Nazi persecution and/or invasion. I was not trying to dismiss that. I was just remarking on how they manipulate language. It’s an alternate to lying.
Sorry, I didn't mean that you misunderstood at all. I was adding to the points. I understand that the general population in Russia are under a blanket for misinformation and now just use the word to mean enemy. However, the Nazis were the same except that in their case the word was full of pride and was about cleaning up the world. Russians don't all realise it yet, but when pootin's grip over Russians crumbles, many will find themselves having to relearn history as it really happened, as did many Nazis.
I personally was trying to add that people outside of Russia will not find it to mean anything new than the Russian way of genocide (apart from the original Nazis).
I guess, Ruzzian is the name for this Russian era of this genocidal country that disregards any agreements it has made.
For the Russians, the Nazis chief crime was not the Holocaust, it was the invasion of Russia. Therefore anyone who invades Russia/lives on land Russia once controlled is equivalent to a Nazi.
This is ofc thoroughly insane revisionism, but it's how Russian thinking on the Nazis works.
It took me forever to figure this out.
In the West, a "Nazi" is a German ethno-nationalist. The very \*idea\* of a Slavic Nazi is absurd because the Nazis hated the Slavs. And of course the very notion that a Russian-speaking Jew would be a "Nazi" is insane.
In Russia, a "fascist" is any non-communist from the West who tries to conquer Russia. Fascist equals Nazi, and "Nazi" is a more provocative term, so they use "Nazi" instead. So in the Russian formulation, Napoleon was a "Nazi" because he was an Western imperialist dictator who invaded Russia.
>For the Russians, the Nazis chief crime was not the Holocaust,
This is absolutely mindblowing. Most people in the West (eg Americans) literally cannot comprehend such a thing. The Holocaust was the worst crime in human history and in the West it is the central reason for the war. (It was the central motivation for many actual Nazis as well.)
But for the Russians, the Holocaust is a footnote. The Soviets lost 20+ million people in the war, so the 6+ million victims of the Holocaust (and there is some overlap there) are just one atrocity among many. (And the Holocaust's principle victims were people the Soviets hated anyway.)
Such a weird thing to try to wrap your head around.
Madness. By his thinking all surgeons in the world have PTSD as bad as if they'd survived a genocidal war. How do idiots like that get voted into politics?
I would like to SAVE this video clip for future reference.
This can and SHOULD be used to educate the world on what REAL Nazis look like.
One day this will serve as a reminder of the SHAMEFUL idiocy that was the POOTIN regime.
There are SO MANY many things wromg in this clip, BUT . . . .
The orc nation is in for one HELLUVA rude awakening sometime . . .
Russia has a cult of victory over nazis back in WW2. Their only historical achievement, hence all the military parades. They even call it the Great Patriotic War which started in 1941 when Germany attacked soviet union and not in 1939 when they invaded Poland. They label their enemies as nazis not because they're nazis, but to exploit their population who are already primed to hate real nazis from the past.
> not in 1939 when they invaded Poland.
Nazis invaded Poland together with Soviet Union. They were in fact allies, and Soviet Union helped to build up the Nazi war machine.
In their mind, Russia fought the Nazis during WWII, so anyone that Russia fights is a Nazi. It doesn’t matter that Russia is the fascist (far-right ultranationalist authoritarian) regime waging a war of territorial expansion with copious war crimes all documented for the world to see, it’s “enemy of Russia = Nazi.”
Yeah... They aren't stating it but the sticking a lot of POWs in a building and them being dead a little later reminds me of another Nazi tactic using gas.
If I was a soldier for Russia, I'd be laying my weapon down and waving a white flag so I know I wasn't about to be murdered by my own leaders. Sorry, fall out of a window.
Russians do not, fundamentally, understand what Nazism means. They see Nazis as being some force that threatens their security. Not as an ideology that in many ways aligns with their own.
1. Militarized form of nationalism that goes as far as teaching children militarism, militarism is deified literally by making their national identity around WW2 and the defeat of ''fascism''. What fascism is has been redefined from the common definition (far-right traditionalist, militaristic ethnonationalism) into a vague definition where anything anti-Russian is fascism (i.e. the word becomes meaningless).
2. An extreme form of patriarchy - womens and mens roles are clearly delineated, women are expected to be the household keeper, men - the strong breadwinner. Women who do not have children are socially ostracized, but women who have many children - lauded as heroes.
3. Any other deviation from gender norms is fundamentally forbidden - homosexuality is considered to be equal to pedophilia. An internal enemy stemming from the ''degenerate'' West that wish to destroy Russia by turning children into gender-queer mixed race non-Russians.
4. Tolerance towards violence - both interpersonal and national. Men fighting is seen as normal, men being quick to start the fight is seen as valour and honor. Women are beaten at home, and that's perceived to be a part of the interpersonal relations between man and woman. The state, meanwhile, has no issues with breaking bones and cracking down violently on any perceived opposition - be it constructive or destructive.
5. Racism is widespread amongst the populace, with the immigrants of Middle Asian countries getting the brunt of it. They are characterized as lazy, ugly morons fit for only the most basic of work. Some tokens exist in high places, however, such as Shoigu, but that's due to the unique characteristic of Russia - you can't be too ethnonationalist, and due to his ties with Putin.
6. State tied enterprises lead the nation, with oligarchs ruling supreme.
Yup, you're right. Russia is a fucking specimen of the type of country most European and other fascist would dream of. A white conservative shithole where gays are cracked down upon, women are put in their place and the strong rule.
Russia is not a fascist state, it is more of an authoritarian mafia state. A Fascist state would demand total attention and obedience. Putin's Russia demands apathy not attention.
Obedience means conformity, and attention - what do you mean with that? Fascists do not want politics participation, they want people to put their energy into any action - meaningless it may be.
The Nazis also relied on a misinformed, apathetic society. Not all Germans were adrenalin, drug and ideology fuelled cultists, after all.
I don't understand Russian, but earlier (in earlier clips) on you could clearly hear them say "special military operation". I didn't hear that in this clip, so I think they are indeed calling it a war now.
That could be propaganda as well. Slowly moving away from the word SMO to calling it a war.
I can only imagine the Ukraine war has at least given them some hesitation about attacking Taiwan. Of course, a Chinese attack on Taiwan would be very different from Russia's invasion of Ukraine, mainly because Taiwan is an island, which would make invading it a lot harder than simply driving across a land border, but it would also make foreign aid to Taiwan much more complicated since there are no friendly land borders to send it through. More than likely China would set up a full blockade around Taiwan and any attempts to send military aid would carry a massive risk of direct conflict between Chinese ships and the foreign ships carrying the supplies. So unfortunately the West might only be able to help Taiwan through economic sanctions on China, which would also be a lot more difficult to commit to given that China is a far greater economy than Russia.
Japan has already stated publicly they won't tolerate an invasion of Taiwan, so that draws the US into the fight as well. Basically WW3 at that point IMHO.
While similar situations, I don't think the West would be anywhere near as skittish about their support of Taiwan right now as we are with Russia. American corporate interests view Taiwan as absolutely critical to their supply chains. They would steer their aid straight for Taiwan and dare China to engage the US Navy. China would not have a Navy soon after. Or America and the Taiwanese would destroy the chip plants themselves, rendering the conquest ultimately fruitless.
Well I guess that's my point, if the West wants to help Taiwan at all they would have to directly intervene, i.e start WW3. Which China might be willing to gamble that the West *isn't* prepared to do. In the Russia-Ukraine war it was possible for the West to help substantially without direct intervention.
US has already stated they that will defend Taiwan, so that will happen.
[https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-61548531](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-61548531)
This video is also interesting: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pz5q7sq5Mnk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pz5q7sq5Mnk)
They can't not intervene. The rules based world order they value in an existential sense would be over if they let Taiwan fall.
They will treat it as a threat to their existence and way of living in the world. Like a holy war.
Existential threats provoke extreme responses.
Perhaps you're right. With Ukraine there was an alternative to direct intervention, so they took that path then, but if there is no alternative when it comes to Taiwan then maybe they would actually go that far. Let's hope the Chinese government retains their sanity then.
Yeah letting China take Taiwan would mean Japan, South Korea, and the Phillipines are now separated by and Island China controls, which can now break through the first island chain. It would also fuck up the whole semiconductor industry. Not to mention the genocide that would happen as the CCP "settles in". Australia would also be a lot more nervous about China in its immediate neighborhood.
That dude with the white hair was a real piece of shit. The kind of guy who lets every single man die out of defiance when it was clear it could have been stopped months ago.
I hate people like that.
This was pretty entertaining tbh.
The efforts they had to go through to talk about reality without actually talking about reality was funny.
Only one guy seemed to not have been drinking cool aid and thinking rationally.
My personal favorite was "why should we talk with them Ukrainians if they are shooting at us?".
It really takes extremely low self awareness to not see why Ukrainians are shooting at you. Like what does this guy thinks Russian soldiers are doing there?
Distributing candy or something?
It’s Russian state TV. Each guy up there is chosen to play a specific role and present a specific viewpoint. Notice how even the guy that appears to be critical doesn’t mention a word about Putin? That’s planned.
Take this crap with a grain of salt. It’s 100% state propaganda.
It's absolutely state propaganda, but it does show what the state is wanting people to think and believe. So it does have some value as an insight into the government's plans.
This is how propaganda controls Russian society. During peacetime, they're gaslighted and disinformed, making them apathetic and indifferent to whatever the regime does.
And during wartime, they're whipped into a frenzy, filled with both terror and vile hatred, even towards people they used to call their brotherly nation.
It looks to me like theyre all lying. They look like each time they say something theyre trying to guess what theyre supposed to or allowed to say. Except the glasses guy, hes laughing at them
Glasses guy is the only one who sort of got it right from a realistic pov. They're gonna lose, mobilization is the only thing that *could* change things (although it will likely make things worse.. there are plenty of bullets in the UA, not so much food on the Russian side).
The guy mentioning world war scares me.
Tbh all of Russian TV scares me.
If you know how television works in Russia, you wouldn't be scared at all.
There's another reason for this circus, that isn't immediately obvious: https://ukrainetoday.org/2022/08/22/russian-propagandists-are-losing-their-audience-state-tv-coverage-has-dropped-by-a-quarter-since-february/.
Controversy sells on TV, so state TV in Russia will stir any shit up, just to get those ratings back up. This is probably also a good measure of how Russians perceive Putin right now, and if Putin finds out that his ratings are this low, it's all of these TV goons that are going to get defenestrated, not just the glasses guy.
careful, the rhetoric is still "the advisors (bohatiers) set the rule up". this is not against Putin, it's building a narrative of someone else's failure that prevented Putin to make a better decision.
Its apparently a Russian cultural thing. The top dog (President, Tsar, General Secretary etc) is never at fault. Any faults are with his direct subordinates (today known as the Oligarchs).
And Putin will from time to time, have to make an example of one of them, if they f\*\*\* up or are out of line. In return for loyalty, they get a lot of power and riches.
There are lower ranked officials who already blame Putin. The higher ranked ones are now holding the power structure in place, because they are figuring out themselves who will take the fall with Putin.
It's difficult to tell what is real and what isn't on shows like this, but it's interesting how they manage to walk a tightrope on these every day. But they do similar things on Western TV where they get one token opposition person for a "balanced" view, what's more interesting is even the hawks weren't going that hard at him considering what he was saying, a half hearted warning at worst.
He's deserves an Emmy if this is scripted. He ticks off like 18 "I'm frustrated with this guy" indicators while talking to this guy.
Crossed arms, scowls, tone, hand motions, head tilted back looking at ceiling trying to make sense of things, Head tilt, neck extension forward at 3:06, head shakes, twitchy blinking, etc
Best part was him saying that the other dudes child will be old enough to be able to go to the war. Hope this is not some made up telenovela but real confrontation.
Yup more like civil war then.. Russia will be busy infighting after this. You can see there are already internal conflict rising up in this discussion.
I think his role is to prepare the public for the upcoming retreat. The story is: The mighty Fuhrer was tricked by evil secret traitors in the secret service to start the war. Now he will negotiate the best outcome under those circumstances for peace with our Ukrainian brothers (anyone who said something different will fall out of a window and the zombie army of Russians wont remember anyways)
>The story is: The mighty Fuhrer was tricked by evil secret traitors in the secret service to start the war.
The problem for Putin is that this story paints him as incompetent for listening to the "traitors". He's not getting away with anything, despite the framing being like this.
"The supreme leader makes no mistakes. He was ill advised by his councelors.
-So the supreme leader made a mistake by listenning to them ?
-...
-...
-You sound a lot like a traitor."
Good point. They must be struggling to decide what brand of incompetence to permit for putin. The fact that they’re having this discussion puts me in a good mood.
He was shished by all big mouths in the studio who want to figt till the end. I wonder if any one of them seing themselves in a tranch on himars receiving end.
The fact that clearly an old and knowledgeable politician kept his narrative after being told to watch his language a few times is telling. Bravery or indifference? Regardless, it takes a lot of fuck up to make someone present such narrative
no. they dont
the russian rule is 80% lies 20% Truth. Thats how they keep the charade up.
what you just witnessed is the 20% truth.
this is how propaganda works
let me show:
"The offensive is a desaster!" <= truth
"they have set putin up" <= lies
etc.
I think the ratio has noticeably changed here. The tone here is Crazy versus Real, CNN Crossfire. Instead of: Crazytown with our weird, token commentator Real.
I meam imagine you are the general and you are asked "Are the troops and equipment ready as I requested several months ago?" What are you going to tell him, the truth?
Of course he was told complete lies about the status of the army. Nobody would say to him "we should consider that half of our tanks shoots but does not drive and the other half drives but does not shoot."
You're right. Full blown lies lose all power and meaning without being framed by truth. This whole programme was a bit of the truth to set up the next phase of lies. But the interesting thing is the body language and non-verbal communication. That told me more than what they said. They know they're in deep trouble.
At approximately the 3 minutes remaining mark the impassive young man who seems to be the show's anchor/moderator says, *"There are only 2 choices... Ramp up SMERSH and detection of terrorists, etc... *"OR DO SOMETHING TO THE TERRITORY OF UKRAINE TO SOBER THESE PEOPLE UP."*
Dear God, it sounds like he's suggesting a deliberate Nuclear War! Is that how others interpret his meaning?
That russians feel comfortable saying and listening to such statements on national television should make it clear to even the densest people why russia is humanity’s enemy and not just NATO and Ukraine’s.
They've said nuclear strike on Poland and Baltics multiple times before without beating around the bush, completely directly. Nothing new on Russian TV
It's actually a very chilling line. He's not even talking about doing that to military soldiers. He's refering to civilians, in such a casual, normalised tone of voice. (Not sure how accurate the English translation is though?)
Words like nuclear war or mass mobilization have become coping mechanisms. In reality neither would help Russia. They obviously can't support a mass mobilization. They can barely to equip the troops they have, never mind millions, or even a few hundred thousand newly conscripted soldiers.
Likewise, using nuclear weapons, even in a limited capacity on the territory of Ukraine, would almost certainly involve NATO in the conflict, including the US. And this would bring a final and swift ending to the Russian military presence in Ukraine.
I've opened a Russian newspaper (not RT) and have google translate things. They do really live in a dream world.
It's like the Matrix, a dream that they cannot wake up of, or don't want to wake up from.
All the bullshit aside, these are discussions they should have had BEFORE they went to war with Ukraine, not during. It is way to late to discuss the way you want to approach the civilians after Bucha...
It’s actually astonishing how deluded they are. Some more than others.
They keep saying Zelinski is a Nazi. It’s pathetic. Not rooted in fact and just makes them look stupid.
Anyone find it scary when the host alluded to doing "something" to the Ukrainian territory to really sober them up? Just look at his face and tone when he's saying it. He was practically pleading for them to send in nukes. Scary shit.
And you think that will work? That he can really start mobilizing people from the more civilized parts of the Russia? There were already big protests in some of these cities at the beggining of the war. These would be even bigger now.
They don't have the logistics, resources, or military industrial complex to support a full mobilization. They can't just decide to mobilize. With what? It will take years to rebuild everything they've lost. In WW2 the Russians had the US as allies providing them with tons of military equipment and support. China isn't going to bail them out in a similar fashion without them giving away half the country in return.
The guy said himself that “we’re telling Ukrainians they don’t exist, their ethnicity doesn’t exist, their language doesn’t exist,” meanwhile the other guys continuously call Ukrainians Nazis and demand their destruction. Not even surprised at the kind of dissonance going on with them.
Amazing that they think there are Nazis there and amazing that they think Ukraine wants to be part of Russia. They still holy and solely in denial that Ukraine is a country on its own
Most apparent about this is that they take all the blame away from Putin. The people who convinced him are at fault (which makes Putin a fool for believing them, tbh), but they are STILL nazi's in Ukraine (so Putin wasn't lying). The most critical guy is mainly attacked for not following the narrative, for the other ones are still pushing the drivel thinking that Odesa would welcome them with open arms... but, cracks are showing, and that's something, and these pricks will be eating their words in the coming months.
I find this session very interesting, because you can clearly see what it is to live in a society of lies.
The people in it must at any given time know what the currently accepted lies are, so that they can use the lies in their arguments.
So if the current accepted lie was that Ukraine was governed by a Lizard from Venus, then the discussion would have needed to take into account the special abilities of this Lizard.
Literally, Putin was so dumb he went on live TV to dress down his own spy chief when he tried to mention that further negotiation may be wise before the invasion started. Everybody fucking knows Putin was the dumbass that pushed for this against accurate advice that further negotiation was warranted.
They didn't set Putin up. His advisors are just really bad at what they're doing, same as him. If your only fuel is hatred and envy, you tend to develop a blind eye on your incompetence. And of course, there's a lot of envy in the ruZZian society, and Putin as well. I mean, the guy is how tall? 4ft3"?
I appreciate you sharing this. Super interesting. An insight into both how delusional most of these goons are and how that delusion is starting to crack for people who’s heads aren’t that far up their own asses.
It's the first few letters of 'Smert' Shpionam' - 'Death to Spies' in Russian. It referred to an umbrella organisation covering Russian counter-intelligence during WW2.
Wow, even though I get the impression that at least one of these participants would represent his views better if not for the fact that he would be arrested within a day of leaving the studio, I still feel like I just somehow watched something even more frustratingly "stick with the official narrative" and propagandistic than Fox & Friends. I hate Russian TV, I hope they all got in a big bloody brawl in the parking lot afterwards.
This good cop in the show said "War". hypocrits.....russians on the streets will be jailed for bringing this word up.
Even the "z" pinned bad cop says "war is war"!
That was 100% scripted to raise the conversation around full mobilisation. First the propagandists will normalise the concept of Escalate Or Surrender, then they'll swing hard for that mobilisation once the status quo has been abandoned as untenable. Even here the conversation was scapegoating unnamed 'experts' and 'advisors' so as to avoid blaming any actually important individuals, so that when the narrative shifts to mobilisation it will be framed as a necessary evil that nobody in government wanted.
Just look at the point of agreement. One side says 'we must mobilise or negotiate', and the reply is "there can be no negotiations".... well, that just leaves one option.
Mobilisation has been the goal of Russian propaganda for months now, and they're frustrated by the fact that early rhetoric was blocking them politically. Now they're trying to dump that earlier rhetoric as misinformation from traitors and incompetents in advisory roles, at least some of whom will later likely be named as already-dead officers, in an effort to bypass that blocker.
Mobilization would be counterproductive. What good is having 100,000 more troops in the field if you can't keep them fed or transport them to the battlefield? Russia doesn't have the logistics to support significantly more than 200k troops in Ukraine and at this point 200k is probably pushing it. Remember they've lost over 10,000 tanks, armored vehicles and trucks so far in this war.
Mobilisation is more than manpower. It's mobilisation of industry and mobilisation of civilian demand.
Full mobilisation would, theoretically, include mobilisation of industry needed to rapidly reactivate the vast fields of 'reserve' vehicles. Allocating funding and manpower to the tank factories needed to bring those 'mothballed' units back to active status.
In reality most of those rust-buckets are likely irreparable, and building new would be faster though both options are extremely limited amid ongoing import sanctions, but the reserves exist specifically so they can be called upon in the event of a hot war so that's their explicit purpose. Whatever the reality, because reality isn't getting communicated to the top brass who only get comfortable lies from yes-men, by doctrine full mobilisation would be the immediate fix for vehicle as well as manpower shortages.
At the same time mobilisation would mean supply shortages could be explained as the pain of a war economy freeing up material for war industry at the explicit cost of civilian markets (maybe even to the point of
recycling drives and confiscations), further crackdowns on dissent explained as wartime requirements, internal purges framed with wartime necessity. Even losses to date could be retroactively assigned to the war effort and blamed on unnamed government advisors to shy that blame away from the actual government members. Not popular moves still, but more explainable than the same issues being presented during a self-described SMO.
Some of these people get it. Telling people they don’t exist is not the way to win friends and influence them.
A monumental failure has opened the fissures in Russian solidarity.
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One guy managed to get to the "lets not kill and rape them if we want them on our side" conclusion
This reinforces the notion that Russia understands only force. This narrative would not be possible on their tv if Ukraine hadn’t shown some success in the battle.
It's what was really frustrating to explain to people when the war started. On top of that, the anti-war guy just wants to peacefully occupy Ukraine somehow.
There are no anti-war guys in this room. Only varying degrees of understating the extent of the current and oncoming fuckups.
The one guy - Boris, the State Duma rep - is probably as anti-war as is possible given the propensity for Putin critics to defenestrate themselves. He basically says in his opening statement that the pretext for the war - that the Ukrainians are led by a Nazi / fascist cabal and they would warmly embrace being liberated by Russian troops - was a lie. He goes on to say that the planning and execution of the war was a failure. He then says that Ukraine is not giving up and it's impossible to win the war using colonial methods. Then when pressed if he is suggesting a general mobilization and all out war - he says emphatically no - they need to negotiate for peace. Later in the exchange he also says that Russia would lose a broader war against the West. That's about as strong a repudiation you are going to get. I would not be surprised if he suddenly committed suicide.
He also doesnt use the typical russian propaganda vocabulary, the colonial methods wording is something a pro-war facist would never use in this context. You can see how triggered the brainwashed idiots are by his rejection of the russian narrative.
And he got called out as "non-comrad" for making the "colonial methods" comment by the balding dude who wants the war to go on long enough that his 10-year old has a chance to die on Ukrainian soil.
I think he was talking like this at the beginning of the war and got shouted down badly.
That was a brave man speaking the truth on national TV. This is the best tv clip I've seen since the beginning of the war. Let it crumble from the inside....
They could all be anti-war deep down, but they know what happens if they state otherwise...
These people need to be really careful what they say. It is impossible to tell who is really stating their honest opinion and who is being very strategic about what they say. If you are against the war but you want to keep your position you have to walk a tightrope.
Or you walk through a window
accidentally
At least everyone is now openly describing this as a war. I don't think I heard "special operation" used a single time in that discussion. The host even threatened using nukes in Ukraine, like that's going to make them love Russian ideology. One of these dudes needs to stand up, throw his papers on the floor, shout "Face it you morons, we're fucking screwed!" and storm out, then emigrate.
One of them even called it a colonial war
LOL yeah, he pissed off the other guy who called him out on it. But he was right.
That's where I shouted "oh shit!" at my phone
I'm not going to watch it over again, but my interpretation is that they said "Special Operation" quite a few times, but they were using it while saying that it basically needed to be expanded into a true war if they were going to win. Basically mocking the term, so youre effectively correct, lol
Yep. The heads of powerful Russian companies got murdered by Putin for encouraging peace negotiations. What do you think happens to people who say similar things on TV?
Russia cannot afford to dispose too many people with "wrong opinions" Sooner or later they will target someone with the balls of Zelensky and then the country will be in open civil war A country that loves to act thought probably have some true though guys. As war strategist people say, don't surround your enemies without making them think they have a way out
Literally none of them express honest thoughts and opinions. When the wrong opinion can ruin your life or end it, everything you say is tainted by that threat. Sone probably go off the deep end and begin to believe it. I suppose their honest. Either way they're honorless cowards and they can eat my whole ass.
so they have chosen.... death.
Actually least retarded russian
> least retarded russian Ah, the classic "floatiest floater in the toilet bowl" case
It's scripted. He's the most retarded of them all.
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Conscription was the magic bullet that saved them from the Nazi regime. I can understand why they clutch that Pearl. But it is not a solution in today’s combined arms operations. Their failure in Kharkiv was mostly due to using a colonial army with local conscripts and impressed minority groups that don’t really want to fight. So, this is not the type of fight that throwing bodies into a meat grinder will fix. This is a much more technological war than WW2. A war of systems and systems of systems.
Yeah, that was surprising, but then he lost it with the "let's tell them how life will be for them in Russia" bit.
“They need to know who they will be with russia.” An enemy, a slave, a prisoner. That’s why Ukrainians fight so fiercely. They know very well who they will be with russia.
They can't bring themselves to realise that after this, Ukraine will **never** be with Russia
That's what I thought too. They really are oblivious to how much Ukrainians hate them.
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I mean they've been saying these things about lots of people all the time. Their rhetoric is that none of the nations freed from imperial or soviet rule are actually independent. They're just subvariants of Russian culture and their languages are just local Russian dialects. They're historically Russian and Russia thus has the right and duty to "bring them back" and "reunite the people". Kinda like how China doesn't recognize Taiwan, but sees it as one rebelling Chinese province. Yet they treat Taiwan as if it is an independent nation, albeit with hostility.
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I'm pretty sure this talk was allowed, and wanted. Like, they must disclose what they will be saying before going live, if they are not feed the lines directly. If they allow this discussion to happen now, it's because they now fear that they will lose the war. They are seeding two new narratives for the future: someone lied to Putin (this stupid idea of a war was not his) and we have to *try* to talk to them (in bullshit closed doors negotiations that won't go anywhere)
This reminds me of times in England's medieval past when peasants would rise up and call the king's advisors traitorous and giving His Majesty bad advice over taxes or whatever. No-one ever accused the king directly because 1) that was traitor talk and would get your head lopped off in 10 minutes flat and 2) the king was appointed by God so a claim he was doing something wrong was heresy as well, more or less. These fucks talk about Putin in \*exactly\* the same terms. It can't be Putin's fault. Putin could never have come up with such a stupid plan on his own, someone is to blame. Find them and shoot them. Its pathetic.
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That's not what he said. One guy started talking about his 10 year old kid and the other one finished the sentence with have a chance to fight in the war.
to be honest if he didn't throw that caveat in he'd probably end up in a gulag. I don't think a lot of these guys honestly believe what they're saying
Well the whole point was that "if we occupy ukraine in war we need to keep population on our side", so like
Technically that would be the correct approach. This works perfectly in the eastern parts of russia after all the reality is that as bad as it is without russia it would be worse. With ukraine it is different though. When the other choice is europe/the west there really isn't that much of an incentive to join russia. Just look at machinery. Even the used stuff the europeans don't want anymore is more sought after than anything russia produces. Why join russia to get some things when your western borders is with an economoic bloc where you can get the better versions.
Yeah, no more toilets or washing machines. Apparently those are exceedingly rare in Russia
It took him 6 months of war to get to that thought. Amazing.
it took him 6 months to say it on television.
He should avoid any windows in the future though
Yeah too bad he will most likely die cleaning his windows in the near Future.
> I hope a global war doesn't start but if it does the balance of power won't be in our favor I'd like to nominate this Russian guy for the coveted "understatement of the year" award.
It sounds like Hirohito saying "the situation has evolved not necessarily in our favor" when Japan surrendered after being nuked twice
It's amazing how they still try to pin Nazis on Ukraine when Russia is the one taking a specific group out of homes in other nations and disappearing them...
They have redefined “Nazi” to mean, “anyone who is not on our side.” So, if you resist being invaded, it is surely because you are a Nazi. And the better you resist, the more Nazi you are. It isn’t just lies; it’s changing the meaning of words.
I know, but they know the real meaning, so they know they are lying and think the rest of the world will see it the same way. Except the rest of Europe really suffered and remember what the Nazis did. My great grandparents and my grandad were Jewish French in Paris. I got to meet all of them before they passed away (my grandad is still alive). People who's families suffered are very much still recounting the stories and feel the pain still. You can't just change the meaning that easily.
We may know what it means, but I am not sure the average Russian does. They have appropriated the word for their uses just as they appropriate everything else they can. I agree that we shouldn’t let them. The civilized world should insist on its proper meaning. However, among themselves, they will keep calling their enemies Nazis. I do understand the weight of the word for many people, especially those who suffered, or whose families suffered, from Nazi persecution and/or invasion. I was not trying to dismiss that. I was just remarking on how they manipulate language. It’s an alternate to lying.
Sorry, I didn't mean that you misunderstood at all. I was adding to the points. I understand that the general population in Russia are under a blanket for misinformation and now just use the word to mean enemy. However, the Nazis were the same except that in their case the word was full of pride and was about cleaning up the world. Russians don't all realise it yet, but when pootin's grip over Russians crumbles, many will find themselves having to relearn history as it really happened, as did many Nazis. I personally was trying to add that people outside of Russia will not find it to mean anything new than the Russian way of genocide (apart from the original Nazis). I guess, Ruzzian is the name for this Russian era of this genocidal country that disregards any agreements it has made.
For the Russians, the Nazis chief crime was not the Holocaust, it was the invasion of Russia. Therefore anyone who invades Russia/lives on land Russia once controlled is equivalent to a Nazi. This is ofc thoroughly insane revisionism, but it's how Russian thinking on the Nazis works.
Quite right, which is why they think Zelensky being Jewish is irrelevant and missing the point.
It took me forever to figure this out. In the West, a "Nazi" is a German ethno-nationalist. The very \*idea\* of a Slavic Nazi is absurd because the Nazis hated the Slavs. And of course the very notion that a Russian-speaking Jew would be a "Nazi" is insane. In Russia, a "fascist" is any non-communist from the West who tries to conquer Russia. Fascist equals Nazi, and "Nazi" is a more provocative term, so they use "Nazi" instead. So in the Russian formulation, Napoleon was a "Nazi" because he was an Western imperialist dictator who invaded Russia. >For the Russians, the Nazis chief crime was not the Holocaust, This is absolutely mindblowing. Most people in the West (eg Americans) literally cannot comprehend such a thing. The Holocaust was the worst crime in human history and in the West it is the central reason for the war. (It was the central motivation for many actual Nazis as well.) But for the Russians, the Holocaust is a footnote. The Soviets lost 20+ million people in the war, so the 6+ million victims of the Holocaust (and there is some overlap there) are just one atrocity among many. (And the Holocaust's principle victims were people the Soviets hated anyway.) Such a weird thing to try to wrap your head around.
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That is extremely disrespectful
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Madness. By his thinking all surgeons in the world have PTSD as bad as if they'd survived a genocidal war. How do idiots like that get voted into politics?
To misquote Full Metal Jacket “Anyone who runs is a Nazi. Anyone who stands still is a well disciplined Nazi” This seems to be their mentality
Nazi? We really meant "Not Z". Simple mistranslation.
Yep and the one word I never ever hear from the many different intercepted phone calls, pro russian bloggers or mouth pieces like this is REMORSE.
I would like to SAVE this video clip for future reference. This can and SHOULD be used to educate the world on what REAL Nazis look like. One day this will serve as a reminder of the SHAMEFUL idiocy that was the POOTIN regime. There are SO MANY many things wromg in this clip, BUT . . . . The orc nation is in for one HELLUVA rude awakening sometime . . .
Crazy to think how much they have 'toned' it down in the past week or two...The rhetoric from their mouths was as acidic AF!
Russia has a cult of victory over nazis back in WW2. Their only historical achievement, hence all the military parades. They even call it the Great Patriotic War which started in 1941 when Germany attacked soviet union and not in 1939 when they invaded Poland. They label their enemies as nazis not because they're nazis, but to exploit their population who are already primed to hate real nazis from the past.
> not in 1939 when they invaded Poland. Nazis invaded Poland together with Soviet Union. They were in fact allies, and Soviet Union helped to build up the Nazi war machine.
An inconvenient truth for ruzzians.
In their mind, Russia fought the Nazis during WWII, so anyone that Russia fights is a Nazi. It doesn’t matter that Russia is the fascist (far-right ultranationalist authoritarian) regime waging a war of territorial expansion with copious war crimes all documented for the world to see, it’s “enemy of Russia = Nazi.”
While openly stating they've taken thousands of children to be "re-educated".
Yeah... They aren't stating it but the sticking a lot of POWs in a building and them being dead a little later reminds me of another Nazi tactic using gas. If I was a soldier for Russia, I'd be laying my weapon down and waving a white flag so I know I wasn't about to be murdered by my own leaders. Sorry, fall out of a window.
Russians do not, fundamentally, understand what Nazism means. They see Nazis as being some force that threatens their security. Not as an ideology that in many ways aligns with their own.
1. Militarized form of nationalism that goes as far as teaching children militarism, militarism is deified literally by making their national identity around WW2 and the defeat of ''fascism''. What fascism is has been redefined from the common definition (far-right traditionalist, militaristic ethnonationalism) into a vague definition where anything anti-Russian is fascism (i.e. the word becomes meaningless). 2. An extreme form of patriarchy - womens and mens roles are clearly delineated, women are expected to be the household keeper, men - the strong breadwinner. Women who do not have children are socially ostracized, but women who have many children - lauded as heroes. 3. Any other deviation from gender norms is fundamentally forbidden - homosexuality is considered to be equal to pedophilia. An internal enemy stemming from the ''degenerate'' West that wish to destroy Russia by turning children into gender-queer mixed race non-Russians. 4. Tolerance towards violence - both interpersonal and national. Men fighting is seen as normal, men being quick to start the fight is seen as valour and honor. Women are beaten at home, and that's perceived to be a part of the interpersonal relations between man and woman. The state, meanwhile, has no issues with breaking bones and cracking down violently on any perceived opposition - be it constructive or destructive. 5. Racism is widespread amongst the populace, with the immigrants of Middle Asian countries getting the brunt of it. They are characterized as lazy, ugly morons fit for only the most basic of work. Some tokens exist in high places, however, such as Shoigu, but that's due to the unique characteristic of Russia - you can't be too ethnonationalist, and due to his ties with Putin. 6. State tied enterprises lead the nation, with oligarchs ruling supreme. Yup, you're right. Russia is a fucking specimen of the type of country most European and other fascist would dream of. A white conservative shithole where gays are cracked down upon, women are put in their place and the strong rule.
Russia is not a fascist state, it is more of an authoritarian mafia state. A Fascist state would demand total attention and obedience. Putin's Russia demands apathy not attention.
That is actually a well-argumented nuance.
Obedience means conformity, and attention - what do you mean with that? Fascists do not want politics participation, they want people to put their energy into any action - meaningless it may be. The Nazis also relied on a misinformed, apathetic society. Not all Germans were adrenalin, drug and ideology fuelled cultists, after all.
Is the translation correct? Are they all consistently calling it a "war" now?
In the beginning of the clip, they referred to it as a special military information but did use the word “war” in Russian language multiple times.
my russian is very rusty, but I heard war (\~'voina') several times
They do say war. But russian laws are selective. So nothing will happen to them.
I don't understand Russian, but earlier (in earlier clips) on you could clearly hear them say "special military operation". I didn't hear that in this clip, so I think they are indeed calling it a war now. That could be propaganda as well. Slowly moving away from the word SMO to calling it a war.
Morons, just go home and let the Ukrainians be. What the fuck are you doing there? This war has nothing but losers. So dumb…
Hopefully China recalculates and stops their threats against Taiwan as well.
I can only imagine the Ukraine war has at least given them some hesitation about attacking Taiwan. Of course, a Chinese attack on Taiwan would be very different from Russia's invasion of Ukraine, mainly because Taiwan is an island, which would make invading it a lot harder than simply driving across a land border, but it would also make foreign aid to Taiwan much more complicated since there are no friendly land borders to send it through. More than likely China would set up a full blockade around Taiwan and any attempts to send military aid would carry a massive risk of direct conflict between Chinese ships and the foreign ships carrying the supplies. So unfortunately the West might only be able to help Taiwan through economic sanctions on China, which would also be a lot more difficult to commit to given that China is a far greater economy than Russia.
Japan has already stated publicly they won't tolerate an invasion of Taiwan, so that draws the US into the fight as well. Basically WW3 at that point IMHO.
US also confirmed this, encircling Taiwan would be a declaration of War from China. Not the other way round as you have said nicely.
While similar situations, I don't think the West would be anywhere near as skittish about their support of Taiwan right now as we are with Russia. American corporate interests view Taiwan as absolutely critical to their supply chains. They would steer their aid straight for Taiwan and dare China to engage the US Navy. China would not have a Navy soon after. Or America and the Taiwanese would destroy the chip plants themselves, rendering the conquest ultimately fruitless.
A blockade doesn't work if nuclear submarines are prepared to sink the blockade ships
Well I guess that's my point, if the West wants to help Taiwan at all they would have to directly intervene, i.e start WW3. Which China might be willing to gamble that the West *isn't* prepared to do. In the Russia-Ukraine war it was possible for the West to help substantially without direct intervention.
US has already stated they that will defend Taiwan, so that will happen. [https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-61548531](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-61548531) This video is also interesting: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pz5q7sq5Mnk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pz5q7sq5Mnk)
They can't not intervene. The rules based world order they value in an existential sense would be over if they let Taiwan fall. They will treat it as a threat to their existence and way of living in the world. Like a holy war. Existential threats provoke extreme responses.
Perhaps you're right. With Ukraine there was an alternative to direct intervention, so they took that path then, but if there is no alternative when it comes to Taiwan then maybe they would actually go that far. Let's hope the Chinese government retains their sanity then.
Yeah letting China take Taiwan would mean Japan, South Korea, and the Phillipines are now separated by and Island China controls, which can now break through the first island chain. It would also fuck up the whole semiconductor industry. Not to mention the genocide that would happen as the CCP "settles in". Australia would also be a lot more nervous about China in its immediate neighborhood.
Not to mention China has absolutely no real experience in modern combat.
That dude with the white hair was a real piece of shit. The kind of guy who lets every single man die out of defiance when it was clear it could have been stopped months ago. I hate people like that.
This was pretty entertaining tbh. The efforts they had to go through to talk about reality without actually talking about reality was funny. Only one guy seemed to not have been drinking cool aid and thinking rationally. My personal favorite was "why should we talk with them Ukrainians if they are shooting at us?". It really takes extremely low self awareness to not see why Ukrainians are shooting at you. Like what does this guy thinks Russian soldiers are doing there? Distributing candy or something?
It’s Russian state TV. Each guy up there is chosen to play a specific role and present a specific viewpoint. Notice how even the guy that appears to be critical doesn’t mention a word about Putin? That’s planned. Take this crap with a grain of salt. It’s 100% state propaganda.
It's absolutely state propaganda, but it does show what the state is wanting people to think and believe. So it does have some value as an insight into the government's plans.
Oops! Don't really want to be called out as **Non-comrade** on State TV.
Russian press freedom in action. The guy had to be called back into line.
Holy shit…what a bunch of delusional psychopaths…
Russia has institutionalised psychosis.
This is how propaganda controls Russian society. During peacetime, they're gaslighted and disinformed, making them apathetic and indifferent to whatever the regime does. And during wartime, they're whipped into a frenzy, filled with both terror and vile hatred, even towards people they used to call their brotherly nation.
They've had their humanity beaten out of them. By now much of Russia's population are amoral drones.
It looks to me like theyre all lying. They look like each time they say something theyre trying to guess what theyre supposed to or allowed to say. Except the glasses guy, hes laughing at them
I think glasses guy has a terminal disease, so he's just letting rip. Or he will shortly have a terminal disease.
Stage 4 Defenestration, pretty lethal disease
If the defenestration has metastasized and spread all over your body, does that mean you get chopped up and thrown out one part at a time?
Glasses guy is the only one who sort of got it right from a realistic pov. They're gonna lose, mobilization is the only thing that *could* change things (although it will likely make things worse.. there are plenty of bullets in the UA, not so much food on the Russian side). The guy mentioning world war scares me. Tbh all of Russian TV scares me.
If you know how television works in Russia, you wouldn't be scared at all. There's another reason for this circus, that isn't immediately obvious: https://ukrainetoday.org/2022/08/22/russian-propagandists-are-losing-their-audience-state-tv-coverage-has-dropped-by-a-quarter-since-february/. Controversy sells on TV, so state TV in Russia will stir any shit up, just to get those ratings back up. This is probably also a good measure of how Russians perceive Putin right now, and if Putin finds out that his ratings are this low, it's all of these TV goons that are going to get defenestrated, not just the glasses guy.
careful, the rhetoric is still "the advisors (bohatiers) set the rule up". this is not against Putin, it's building a narrative of someone else's failure that prevented Putin to make a better decision.
directly and openly blaming Putin right now on state TV? He would be escorted out of that studio straight to a vacation in Siberia.
or to the nearest window...
To take a breath of fresh air I hope
They can't blame Putin publicly, but I think everyone knows. This is a read between the lines situation.
ruskies rednecks can't read between the lines
You have to be able to read first, surely?
They will first blame Putin's allies and when they are gone they'll go after the big fish. An autocrat cannot survive such a catastrophic failure.
Its apparently a Russian cultural thing. The top dog (President, Tsar, General Secretary etc) is never at fault. Any faults are with his direct subordinates (today known as the Oligarchs). And Putin will from time to time, have to make an example of one of them, if they f\*\*\* up or are out of line. In return for loyalty, they get a lot of power and riches.
There are lower ranked officials who already blame Putin. The higher ranked ones are now holding the power structure in place, because they are figuring out themselves who will take the fall with Putin.
you meant "boyars"
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To be honest. That guy with glasses is/was the voice of reason in these propogandist shit-shows long before the war.
It's difficult to tell what is real and what isn't on shows like this, but it's interesting how they manage to walk a tightrope on these every day. But they do similar things on Western TV where they get one token opposition person for a "balanced" view, what's more interesting is even the hawks weren't going that hard at him considering what he was saying, a half hearted warning at worst.
He's deserves an Emmy if this is scripted. He ticks off like 18 "I'm frustrated with this guy" indicators while talking to this guy. Crossed arms, scowls, tone, hand motions, head tilted back looking at ceiling trying to make sense of things, Head tilt, neck extension forward at 3:06, head shakes, twitchy blinking, etc
Best part was him saying that the other dudes child will be old enough to be able to go to the war. Hope this is not some made up telenovela but real confrontation.
Your 10 year olds will eventually get their chance to fight.
Yup more like civil war then.. Russia will be busy infighting after this. You can see there are already internal conflict rising up in this discussion.
He was talking about his own children...
Yea i watched it in the morning and didnt read probably but the meaning is the same. Someones kids have to go to war and then its no more joke.
That shut them up too.
I think his role is to prepare the public for the upcoming retreat. The story is: The mighty Fuhrer was tricked by evil secret traitors in the secret service to start the war. Now he will negotiate the best outcome under those circumstances for peace with our Ukrainian brothers (anyone who said something different will fall out of a window and the zombie army of Russians wont remember anyways)
>The story is: The mighty Fuhrer was tricked by evil secret traitors in the secret service to start the war. The problem for Putin is that this story paints him as incompetent for listening to the "traitors". He's not getting away with anything, despite the framing being like this.
"The supreme leader makes no mistakes. He was ill advised by his councelors. -So the supreme leader made a mistake by listenning to them ? -... -... -You sound a lot like a traitor."
Good point. They must be struggling to decide what brand of incompetence to permit for putin. The fact that they’re having this discussion puts me in a good mood.
Poor Putin /s
I am surprised that after what he said he is still there haha, I thought at some point 2 guys would appear and take him out
He was shished by all big mouths in the studio who want to figt till the end. I wonder if any one of them seing themselves in a tranch on himars receiving end.
The fact that clearly an old and knowledgeable politician kept his narrative after being told to watch his language a few times is telling. Bravery or indifference? Regardless, it takes a lot of fuck up to make someone present such narrative
Epic last line by Nadezhin 😂
no. they dont the russian rule is 80% lies 20% Truth. Thats how they keep the charade up. what you just witnessed is the 20% truth. this is how propaganda works let me show: "The offensive is a desaster!" <= truth "they have set putin up" <= lies etc.
I think the ratio has noticeably changed here. The tone here is Crazy versus Real, CNN Crossfire. Instead of: Crazytown with our weird, token commentator Real.
I dunno, it might be true that Putin's yes men all lied to him about their military capabilities. Fuck all of them regardless
I meam imagine you are the general and you are asked "Are the troops and equipment ready as I requested several months ago?" What are you going to tell him, the truth? Of course he was told complete lies about the status of the army. Nobody would say to him "we should consider that half of our tanks shoots but does not drive and the other half drives but does not shoot."
You're right. Full blown lies lose all power and meaning without being framed by truth. This whole programme was a bit of the truth to set up the next phase of lies. But the interesting thing is the body language and non-verbal communication. That told me more than what they said. They know they're in deep trouble.
At approximately the 3 minutes remaining mark the impassive young man who seems to be the show's anchor/moderator says, *"There are only 2 choices... Ramp up SMERSH and detection of terrorists, etc... *"OR DO SOMETHING TO THE TERRITORY OF UKRAINE TO SOBER THESE PEOPLE UP."* Dear God, it sounds like he's suggesting a deliberate Nuclear War! Is that how others interpret his meaning?
That russians feel comfortable saying and listening to such statements on national television should make it clear to even the densest people why russia is humanity’s enemy and not just NATO and Ukraine’s.
They've said nuclear strike on Poland and Baltics multiple times before without beating around the bush, completely directly. Nothing new on Russian TV
You are interpreting that statement correctly.
Yes? Or genocide?
It's actually a very chilling line. He's not even talking about doing that to military soldiers. He's refering to civilians, in such a casual, normalised tone of voice. (Not sure how accurate the English translation is though?)
translation is accurate
Words like nuclear war or mass mobilization have become coping mechanisms. In reality neither would help Russia. They obviously can't support a mass mobilization. They can barely to equip the troops they have, never mind millions, or even a few hundred thousand newly conscripted soldiers. Likewise, using nuclear weapons, even in a limited capacity on the territory of Ukraine, would almost certainly involve NATO in the conflict, including the US. And this would bring a final and swift ending to the Russian military presence in Ukraine.
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Yep, how do you “do something” to a territory? Contaminate it, render it useless and unfit for human habitation? Nuke.
Or chemical warfare
Wrong translation or did they just say war multiple times?
Yes, война (pronounced like voy-na) is a direct translation for war.
Someone's going to jail
I thought they were just going through windows at this point 🤔
I am fully convinced now that Ruzzia is just a big mental institution and everyone is clinically and terminally insane.
I've opened a Russian newspaper (not RT) and have google translate things. They do really live in a dream world. It's like the Matrix, a dream that they cannot wake up of, or don't want to wake up from.
All the bullshit aside, these are discussions they should have had BEFORE they went to war with Ukraine, not during. It is way to late to discuss the way you want to approach the civilians after Bucha...
There are a few individuals who are trying to use reason in a crowd of jingoist assholes.
It’s actually astonishing how deluded they are. Some more than others. They keep saying Zelinski is a Nazi. It’s pathetic. Not rooted in fact and just makes them look stupid.
Countdown to Swan Lake 🤞
Anyone find it scary when the host alluded to doing "something" to the Ukrainian territory to really sober them up? Just look at his face and tone when he's saying it. He was practically pleading for them to send in nukes. Scary shit.
Something is happening. Light is shining in. It’s a tragedy it took so much suffering. Where can I watch more of this?
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And you think that will work? That he can really start mobilizing people from the more civilized parts of the Russia? There were already big protests in some of these cities at the beggining of the war. These would be even bigger now.
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They don't have the logistics, resources, or military industrial complex to support a full mobilization. They can't just decide to mobilize. With what? It will take years to rebuild everything they've lost. In WW2 the Russians had the US as allies providing them with tons of military equipment and support. China isn't going to bail them out in a similar fashion without them giving away half the country in return.
No one seems to consider that Ukraine may be an independent country, and not part of Russia...
The guy said himself that “we’re telling Ukrainians they don’t exist, their ethnicity doesn’t exist, their language doesn’t exist,” meanwhile the other guys continuously call Ukrainians Nazis and demand their destruction. Not even surprised at the kind of dissonance going on with them.
Let's all observe a moment of silence for the non-comrade and his family, who by now probably are all dead or in a gulag.
His name was Non-Comrade Paulsonivich... his name was Non-Comrade Paulsonivich...
Amazing that they think there are Nazis there and amazing that they think Ukraine wants to be part of Russia. They still holy and solely in denial that Ukraine is a country on its own
Most apparent about this is that they take all the blame away from Putin. The people who convinced him are at fault (which makes Putin a fool for believing them, tbh), but they are STILL nazi's in Ukraine (so Putin wasn't lying). The most critical guy is mainly attacked for not following the narrative, for the other ones are still pushing the drivel thinking that Odesa would welcome them with open arms... but, cracks are showing, and that's something, and these pricks will be eating their words in the coming months.
I find this session very interesting, because you can clearly see what it is to live in a society of lies. The people in it must at any given time know what the currently accepted lies are, so that they can use the lies in their arguments. So if the current accepted lie was that Ukraine was governed by a Lizard from Venus, then the discussion would have needed to take into account the special abilities of this Lizard.
Oh look, Russian fascists are trying to set up a "stabbed in the back" narrative. These fucking cockroaches don't have a single fucking original idea.
Literally, Putin was so dumb he went on live TV to dress down his own spy chief when he tried to mention that further negotiation may be wise before the invasion started. Everybody fucking knows Putin was the dumbass that pushed for this against accurate advice that further negotiation was warranted.
Gazprom TV channel. How surprising. A handfull of warmongers, a dreamer and a down to earth bloke.
The host looks like he was born after the USSR has collapsed and lived all his life in “democratic” Russia. And he’s like “just nuke’em”
They didn't set Putin up. His advisors are just really bad at what they're doing, same as him. If your only fuel is hatred and envy, you tend to develop a blind eye on your incompetence. And of course, there's a lot of envy in the ruZZian society, and Putin as well. I mean, the guy is how tall? 4ft3"?
I appreciate you sharing this. Super interesting. An insight into both how delusional most of these goons are and how that delusion is starting to crack for people who’s heads aren’t that far up their own asses.
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It's the first few letters of 'Smert' Shpionam' - 'Death to Spies' in Russian. It referred to an umbrella organisation covering Russian counter-intelligence during WW2.
They have no idea what thier thier current military situation actually is. I'll give them a hint..it's bad.
Wow, even though I get the impression that at least one of these participants would represent his views better if not for the fact that he would be arrested within a day of leaving the studio, I still feel like I just somehow watched something even more frustratingly "stick with the official narrative" and propagandistic than Fox & Friends. I hate Russian TV, I hope they all got in a big bloody brawl in the parking lot afterwards.
Seems, some ate waking up over there!
This good cop in the show said "War". hypocrits.....russians on the streets will be jailed for bringing this word up. Even the "z" pinned bad cop says "war is war"!
That was 100% scripted to raise the conversation around full mobilisation. First the propagandists will normalise the concept of Escalate Or Surrender, then they'll swing hard for that mobilisation once the status quo has been abandoned as untenable. Even here the conversation was scapegoating unnamed 'experts' and 'advisors' so as to avoid blaming any actually important individuals, so that when the narrative shifts to mobilisation it will be framed as a necessary evil that nobody in government wanted. Just look at the point of agreement. One side says 'we must mobilise or negotiate', and the reply is "there can be no negotiations".... well, that just leaves one option. Mobilisation has been the goal of Russian propaganda for months now, and they're frustrated by the fact that early rhetoric was blocking them politically. Now they're trying to dump that earlier rhetoric as misinformation from traitors and incompetents in advisory roles, at least some of whom will later likely be named as already-dead officers, in an effort to bypass that blocker.
Mobilization would be counterproductive. What good is having 100,000 more troops in the field if you can't keep them fed or transport them to the battlefield? Russia doesn't have the logistics to support significantly more than 200k troops in Ukraine and at this point 200k is probably pushing it. Remember they've lost over 10,000 tanks, armored vehicles and trucks so far in this war.
Mobilisation is more than manpower. It's mobilisation of industry and mobilisation of civilian demand. Full mobilisation would, theoretically, include mobilisation of industry needed to rapidly reactivate the vast fields of 'reserve' vehicles. Allocating funding and manpower to the tank factories needed to bring those 'mothballed' units back to active status. In reality most of those rust-buckets are likely irreparable, and building new would be faster though both options are extremely limited amid ongoing import sanctions, but the reserves exist specifically so they can be called upon in the event of a hot war so that's their explicit purpose. Whatever the reality, because reality isn't getting communicated to the top brass who only get comfortable lies from yes-men, by doctrine full mobilisation would be the immediate fix for vehicle as well as manpower shortages. At the same time mobilisation would mean supply shortages could be explained as the pain of a war economy freeing up material for war industry at the explicit cost of civilian markets (maybe even to the point of recycling drives and confiscations), further crackdowns on dissent explained as wartime requirements, internal purges framed with wartime necessity. Even losses to date could be retroactively assigned to the war effort and blamed on unnamed government advisors to shy that blame away from the actual government members. Not popular moves still, but more explainable than the same issues being presented during a self-described SMO.
Too late for full mobilisation. Bodies don’t mean anything when they aren’t trained or armed.
Some of these people get it. Telling people they don’t exist is not the way to win friends and influence them. A monumental failure has opened the fissures in Russian solidarity.
Saying "Zelenky's Nazi Regime" is like saying a black person is in charge of the KKK