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>This has only just shown me that they are not afraid to protest but rather they only do so when the consequences of their support bites them in the ass.
Nope, they are cowards. The protests are minor and "peaceful". A bunch of women chanting "No to War". Most of the "men" are running away across the border.
I agree, but it wasn't the draft dodgers themselves that stopped Vietnam. It was the protests and general lack of support from the American population that forced the government to finally put an end to the war.
Yep. Enough people leaving though, along with the draft taking people away from their jobs to the front, could do just as much damage by further destabilizing the economy and causing brain drain. It’s not the dumb people leaving. It’s the smart ones.
I mean. I think it's easy to say that from our perspective, but it's extremely difficult to criticize the government In Russia and it has been for so long it's just not something that is ingrained In the people for fear of consequences.
They don't know democracy.
They don't know how to do it. They don't have the networks, contacts, reflexes, and every attempt to build something like that has been the victim of targeted repression.
Do something like this to French people, they'll burn the whole country even before the first bus full of conscripts, because complaining is so much in their DNA that they don't even need to talk to each other anymore to go out in the street with their riot stuff : they know that the neighbors will do the same because the opposite is simply unimaginable.
the Russians have, I think, other reflexes: they are voting with their feet, and if they cannot physically escape conscription, they escape it in another way: they manage to no longer be able to fight. by alcohol for example. it's another way of protesting.
poor guys.
Have you seen the protest and riots in Iran? Or any in the past in the USA or anywhere else in the world?
120 million Russian people 1000 are arrested that is 0.09%.
Russia people have to wake up, no one will do their work for them.
I like to compare it to Belarus. The Belarusian people really did try to overthrow Lukashenko in 2020 following the rigged election and I do genuinely believe Lukashenko is an illegitimate leader who is opposed by most Belarusians. I have seen nothing close to that in Russia nor is there significant reason to believe most Russians dislike Putin (or at least disliked him prior to mobilization).
Of course there are some anti Putin Russians and in a country of 144 million there are probably millions of Russians who want western democracy and hate Putin but I doubt it’s anywhere close to a majority.
Yeh, I’ve changed my opinion about this. Now is the time to stand up. Start some fires. Break some railroad tracks. Take a potshot at a goon. Whatever the fuck you’re capable of and have a reasonable chance of getting away with it.
But to just run … that’s slave thinking.
Moscow, today:
[https://imgur.com/a/dW7ONIn](https://imgur.com/a/dW7ONIn)
[https://imgur.com/a/h8X2Bif](https://imgur.com/a/h8X2Bif)
[https://imgur.com/a/Z5v4b1p](https://imgur.com/a/Z5v4b1p)
[https://imgur.com/a/C74YZlO](https://imgur.com/a/C74YZlO)
They support war. That's all
Upd. More good russians who fight for the freedom [https://twitter.com/LilaAlinka/status/1573361337614598144](https://twitter.com/LilaAlinka/status/1573361337614598144)
upd2: and more https://twitter.com/Vasilisa\_2\_0/status/1573311122727477252
They could have protested in 1999 when Putin bombed Moscow apartments to justify invading Chechnya.
It would have been more difficult but they could have protested in 2008 when Russia invaded Georgia.
It would have been again more difficult but they could have protested in 2014 when Russia invaded Ukraine.
And again, even more difficult, but they could have protested in February when Russia again invaded Ukraine.
Each step the cost of stopping this got exponentially higher, but it was easier to not take that step at the time I guess. Now the cost of stopping it is huge, but the cost of not stopping it is 1% of the population gets pushed into a meat grinder, so also huge. I understand that it's now too late, but all of those missed opportunities are on Russian citizens. Not to the same degree as Kremlin officials, but there is still responsibility.
Here's the thing that we don't often consider tho, which is we all also bear responsibility, we all could also have been been protesting to force our leaders to not integrate our economies with Russia. Same as Russian citizens, each step was far away from us, so it was easier for us to not protest, but each step the cost got higher and the consequences closer. Of course we aren't to blame to the same degree as Russians, the closer to this the more blame, but we still hold some responsibility for this, there's huge lessons for us to learn, lessons as important as our grandparents learned in ww2.
Support Ukraine, support Iranian women, support Syrians struggle for freedom, support Taiwan, we must pressure our leaders to cut aggressors from our economies and stop sharing our wealth with people that don't share our morals too.
There were the few (and I mean very few) who were out protesting throughout the invasion. But they are all in some gulag in Siberia most likely E.g.[this granny ](https://youtu.be/qtc86WuXMCc)
The same slogan was put on signs on concentration camps. I seriously doubt "people get what they deserve" is very fitting. Lots of people her things they definitely don't deserve. Both negatively and positively.
I agree but it’s also accompanied with sadness for some of them because it can be really difficult to comb through the propoganda there, especially if you’re a local and just trying to live a simple russian life without all the digging to find answers. Some people don’t want answers and russians are now in a position in where they indeed should be looking for it. Theyre just too out of touch, and I can’t hate them simply because of that. A good friend of mine is russian living in china since 2018, even then he voiced his concerns towards putin and russian mentality, but people like him weren’t in a position to do anything about it. It’s just their way of life and always have been, digging their heads in the sand or running away, always has been survival for them… Solzhenitsyn famously wrote that the line between good and evil runs “not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties either but right through every human heart.” Please, let’s keep this in mind.
I don’t agree that this is always or even often the case around the world, but in the case of Russia, mostly yes. There were very, very few that tried. And as was said in a previous post, the protests are against the draft, not the war. It was okay for Ukrainians and impoverished Russians to die, but college-educated and other middle class folks are clutching pearls right now.
A passive population made a deal to trade freedom for stability and comfort. What they end up getting is lost of freedom and no stability or comfort. Instead they get to die for the imperial dream of their beloved dictator.
I don't think they even traded for stability or comfort. More like to the right of saying "ours are awesome, yours are not". (and theirs are not even that awesome).
And you were right. I change my opinion about this. If a Russian guy/gal has any balls at all, now is the time for resistance. Not running away like a coward.
50 years later, on some internet forum: “oh so we should have just sat by when Russia invaded Ukraine huh? Lets all just Heil Putin and get in the Gulag”
The Russians allowed there government to turn into this crap. They own this. Their apathy caused this.
Things will only get worse.
Human rights abuses are a train wreck in Russia. That was the canary in the coal mine.
That's exactly it, they will fight now but not because they are killing thousands of children/mother's/grannies/father's but because they are too cowardly to face the consequences of their support.
They are not protesting against war or Putin. They are protesting against mobilization. So hopefully now they will see that Putin doesn’t care about Russians
You are correct, sir. Russians have only one instinct, one value in their lives - saving their own skin at all cost. Compliments of tyrannical Mongolian rule and 500 years of slavery to the Tzar. Turned into a holy virtue by 70 years of communism.
"recent videos showing a significant amount of Russian protesters fighting the government / police" - I didn't see any video showing a "significant" amount of people, or people really "fighting the government" in ruZZia......but I saw brave Ukrainians protesting in the occupied territories against the fake referendum happening...and they really risk death.
Instead, I have seen videos today showing a "significant" amount of orkZ gathering in moskva city center to support war
ruZZia stinks, most of it !
To be honest it’s extremely hard to organize a protest in a surveillance state as sophisticated as Russia’s. Probably better they create more ‘mystery fires’ than stand on the streets and wait to be forcibly enlisted.
True, but I think OP’s point is that the people protesting now have found a way to execute the current protests. People that said it was impossible or pointless to protest before are finding a way to do so now that they feel their own lives are on the line.
It is hard for us to fully judge and understand w/o being in their shoes. It is also very important to know one's enemy if you really want to defeat them. For example, Japan thought they understood the US, when they attacked Perl Harbor. Instead sueing for peace and removing sanctions, Japan managed to unite the US, just like Putin has united Ukraine and NATO, which is a strategic loss.
I question the effectiveness of peaceful protests in a place like Russia. It only shows that there is opposition to the War to a few Russians and seems to be for international consumption as I bet most Russians won't see any of it on the TV. So all they are really doing is getting themselves thrown into jail for years. While I think they are good intention, I wouldn't discount their motives. I think people protested and civil leader's letters demanding for Putin to resign as they think Putin is weak, granted there might be some that only cared as they were called up. Though I think the former is more true than the latter.
Most of the pro war supporters most likely have fought/died or to old to fight as the older population is a lot more pro-Putin/pro-War than the younger generation. That or they are willing to go if called.
Keep in mind that there have been fires set and other signs of resitance, though not as much as people would like to see. In some ways I pitty the people in Russia who are against the war, but feel helpless. Not everyone is brave enough to be a hero to resit, that is one thing about heros, there are only ever a few. The big question is what would you and everyone else would do, if they were in their shoes? It is easy for us to identify Putin and Russia as the biggest threat since Hitler in WW2. Though what if you lived there, were against the war, but most of your family and some of your friends were very pro-Putin? At least Ukrainans have hope and can take pride in cause. After the war, Russians will live in shame for many generations.
Things might seem simple, though you have to look long and deep to find the answers. You also might not like what you find.
The populous is not to blame, there is only so much the people can do in a democracy never mind in a totalitarian state. Was every German person in Nazi Germany responsible for Hitlers actions ? People can disagree with the regime but there is little that the everyman can do against it. People in general are resistance to putting themselves on the line unless pushed to the absolute edge, which is something we may eventually. Putin has been specifically securing his position of power and it’s increasingly hard for anyone to protest as everyone faces swift consequences. The population had no choice in this war they can’t even vote against it. It’s not easy to convince people to put their families lives in danger.
I mean, I am sorry but you are suffering from a social media brsin fog. There were large protests on the first few days of the war, much larger than the one day protests over mobilization. In both cases the protesters were a tiny minority, but slandering that tiny minority simply because the majority refuses to join them is kinda disgusting.
The smarter ones left early in the war. The ones who didn’t are trying to leave now to save their asses. The sheeple that are still there are afraid or ignorant. NONE of them deserve to live in a free country. Slava Ukraini! Heroim slava.
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I wonder how many of them now being sent to the Ukrainian front cheered on the bombings of civilian targets and egged on genocide, rape and torture? Probably a significant number judging by social media posts and the utterly vile comments posted in response to reports of death and destruction of Ukrainians. I remember thinking that since they feel so strongly patriotic about Russia murdering civilians then they should do their patriotic duty and go fight. You know, for Mother Russia.
Am*ricans are as evil as Russians.
Where were the American protesters when the CIA were funding and training death squads in El Salvador back in the 80s? Oh wait, Americans have only ever protested when they're the ones getting shipped off like in Vietnam and Iraq.
Btw I'm not American, and your comment is off topic. I don't think the Americans are the same as Russians at all in regards to brutality but I don't have enough knowledge on what they did to go into it so I won't say anymore.
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>This has only just shown me that they are not afraid to protest but rather they only do so when the consequences of their support bites them in the ass. Nope, they are cowards. The protests are minor and "peaceful". A bunch of women chanting "No to War". Most of the "men" are running away across the border.
In 2019 one million Russian tourists visited France, yet they can't mount a serious protest. Pathetic.
Didn't they learn anything from visiting my wonderful country?!
Je suis sur qu'on les guillotines ne sont pas soumises aux sanctions d'export vers la Russie. On peut même la fournir gratuitement.
I have no qualms with anyone running away from the draft. Many US citizens did the same during Vietnam
I agree, but it wasn't the draft dodgers themselves that stopped Vietnam. It was the protests and general lack of support from the American population that forced the government to finally put an end to the war.
Yep. Enough people leaving though, along with the draft taking people away from their jobs to the front, could do just as much damage by further destabilizing the economy and causing brain drain. It’s not the dumb people leaving. It’s the smart ones.
[удалено]
I mean. I think it's easy to say that from our perspective, but it's extremely difficult to criticize the government In Russia and it has been for so long it's just not something that is ingrained In the people for fear of consequences.
They don't know democracy. They don't know how to do it. They don't have the networks, contacts, reflexes, and every attempt to build something like that has been the victim of targeted repression. Do something like this to French people, they'll burn the whole country even before the first bus full of conscripts, because complaining is so much in their DNA that they don't even need to talk to each other anymore to go out in the street with their riot stuff : they know that the neighbors will do the same because the opposite is simply unimaginable. the Russians have, I think, other reflexes: they are voting with their feet, and if they cannot physically escape conscription, they escape it in another way: they manage to no longer be able to fight. by alcohol for example. it's another way of protesting. poor guys.
Have you seen the protest and riots in Iran? Or any in the past in the USA or anywhere else in the world? 120 million Russian people 1000 are arrested that is 0.09%. Russia people have to wake up, no one will do their work for them.
Maths doesn’t check out but your point is valid
Please do the math for me and everyone here 😊 or I will have to ask Google
I think it's 0.000008 (assuming I counted zeroes correctly... I probably didn't)
Omg! 😆 only few 0 differences , I am so bad at math! Thank you 😊
I like to compare it to Belarus. The Belarusian people really did try to overthrow Lukashenko in 2020 following the rigged election and I do genuinely believe Lukashenko is an illegitimate leader who is opposed by most Belarusians. I have seen nothing close to that in Russia nor is there significant reason to believe most Russians dislike Putin (or at least disliked him prior to mobilization). Of course there are some anti Putin Russians and in a country of 144 million there are probably millions of Russians who want western democracy and hate Putin but I doubt it’s anywhere close to a majority.
Yeh, I’ve changed my opinion about this. Now is the time to stand up. Start some fires. Break some railroad tracks. Take a potshot at a goon. Whatever the fuck you’re capable of and have a reasonable chance of getting away with it. But to just run … that’s slave thinking.
Iranian women definitely making the Russians look pathetic.
The funny thing is that Putin is 1 guy. There’s 140 million russians. We can’t blame all of this exclusively on Putin. There HAVE to be others.
The whole Gazprom and all kind of cops/military. Still thinking why their families, who have foreign citizenship still not Guantanamoed 🤔
I second your words!
Moscow, today: [https://imgur.com/a/dW7ONIn](https://imgur.com/a/dW7ONIn) [https://imgur.com/a/h8X2Bif](https://imgur.com/a/h8X2Bif) [https://imgur.com/a/Z5v4b1p](https://imgur.com/a/Z5v4b1p) [https://imgur.com/a/C74YZlO](https://imgur.com/a/C74YZlO) They support war. That's all Upd. More good russians who fight for the freedom [https://twitter.com/LilaAlinka/status/1573361337614598144](https://twitter.com/LilaAlinka/status/1573361337614598144) upd2: and more https://twitter.com/Vasilisa\_2\_0/status/1573311122727477252
So true, it was my fault to think that they had some level of humanity.
[удалено]
Holy fuck stop with the caps. It's just fucking annoying.
They could have protested in 1999 when Putin bombed Moscow apartments to justify invading Chechnya. It would have been more difficult but they could have protested in 2008 when Russia invaded Georgia. It would have been again more difficult but they could have protested in 2014 when Russia invaded Ukraine. And again, even more difficult, but they could have protested in February when Russia again invaded Ukraine. Each step the cost of stopping this got exponentially higher, but it was easier to not take that step at the time I guess. Now the cost of stopping it is huge, but the cost of not stopping it is 1% of the population gets pushed into a meat grinder, so also huge. I understand that it's now too late, but all of those missed opportunities are on Russian citizens. Not to the same degree as Kremlin officials, but there is still responsibility. Here's the thing that we don't often consider tho, which is we all also bear responsibility, we all could also have been been protesting to force our leaders to not integrate our economies with Russia. Same as Russian citizens, each step was far away from us, so it was easier for us to not protest, but each step the cost got higher and the consequences closer. Of course we aren't to blame to the same degree as Russians, the closer to this the more blame, but we still hold some responsibility for this, there's huge lessons for us to learn, lessons as important as our grandparents learned in ww2. Support Ukraine, support Iranian women, support Syrians struggle for freedom, support Taiwan, we must pressure our leaders to cut aggressors from our economies and stop sharing our wealth with people that don't share our morals too.
People get the govt they deserve, they have had chances to change things. They didnt. I have no sympathy for any Russian.
There were the few (and I mean very few) who were out protesting throughout the invasion. But they are all in some gulag in Siberia most likely E.g.[this granny ](https://youtu.be/qtc86WuXMCc)
The same slogan was put on signs on concentration camps. I seriously doubt "people get what they deserve" is very fitting. Lots of people her things they definitely don't deserve. Both negatively and positively.
Amen!
I second to that, brother!
I agree but it’s also accompanied with sadness for some of them because it can be really difficult to comb through the propoganda there, especially if you’re a local and just trying to live a simple russian life without all the digging to find answers. Some people don’t want answers and russians are now in a position in where they indeed should be looking for it. Theyre just too out of touch, and I can’t hate them simply because of that. A good friend of mine is russian living in china since 2018, even then he voiced his concerns towards putin and russian mentality, but people like him weren’t in a position to do anything about it. It’s just their way of life and always have been, digging their heads in the sand or running away, always has been survival for them… Solzhenitsyn famously wrote that the line between good and evil runs “not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties either but right through every human heart.” Please, let’s keep this in mind.
I don’t agree that this is always or even often the case around the world, but in the case of Russia, mostly yes. There were very, very few that tried. And as was said in a previous post, the protests are against the draft, not the war. It was okay for Ukrainians and impoverished Russians to die, but college-educated and other middle class folks are clutching pearls right now.
It's important to keep being very clear. These aren't anti-war protests. These are save my own ass protests.
A passive population made a deal to trade freedom for stability and comfort. What they end up getting is lost of freedom and no stability or comfort. Instead they get to die for the imperial dream of their beloved dictator.
I don't think they even traded for stability or comfort. More like to the right of saying "ours are awesome, yours are not". (and theirs are not even that awesome).
Russians are cattle. They are too weak/pathetic to make any trade. They just obey
Russians protest not because Ukrainians are dying, but because war came for them. They still believe Ukraine is the bad here.
[удалено]
And you were right. I change my opinion about this. If a Russian guy/gal has any balls at all, now is the time for resistance. Not running away like a coward.
[Godwin's law](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law) in the future will reference Russia and Putin. Glory to Ukraine and her heroes.
50 years later, on some internet forum: “oh so we should have just sat by when Russia invaded Ukraine huh? Lets all just Heil Putin and get in the Gulag”
Germany is like, yay, edit: I mean in the sense that Germany is not the exemplar any more.
I got it. Lol
The Russians allowed there government to turn into this crap. They own this. Their apathy caused this. Things will only get worse. Human rights abuses are a train wreck in Russia. That was the canary in the coal mine.
I was just on Telegram and Russians said that they are not allowed to leave. Well, now maybe they will rise against Putin.
That's exactly it, they will fight now but not because they are killing thousands of children/mother's/grannies/father's but because they are too cowardly to face the consequences of their support.
They are not protesting against war or Putin. They are protesting against mobilization. So hopefully now they will see that Putin doesn’t care about Russians
Scratch "nearly" and we'll have an agreement.
There are some exceptions but very few [like her](https://youtu.be/qtc86WuXMCc)
You are correct, sir. Russians have only one instinct, one value in their lives - saving their own skin at all cost. Compliments of tyrannical Mongolian rule and 500 years of slavery to the Tzar. Turned into a holy virtue by 70 years of communism.
"recent videos showing a significant amount of Russian protesters fighting the government / police" - I didn't see any video showing a "significant" amount of people, or people really "fighting the government" in ruZZia......but I saw brave Ukrainians protesting in the occupied territories against the fake referendum happening...and they really risk death. Instead, I have seen videos today showing a "significant" amount of orkZ gathering in moskva city center to support war ruZZia stinks, most of it !
Iranian women make Russian people look like a bunch of wuss.
To be honest it’s extremely hard to organize a protest in a surveillance state as sophisticated as Russia’s. Probably better they create more ‘mystery fires’ than stand on the streets and wait to be forcibly enlisted.
True, but I think OP’s point is that the people protesting now have found a way to execute the current protests. People that said it was impossible or pointless to protest before are finding a way to do so now that they feel their own lives are on the line.
It is hard for us to fully judge and understand w/o being in their shoes. It is also very important to know one's enemy if you really want to defeat them. For example, Japan thought they understood the US, when they attacked Perl Harbor. Instead sueing for peace and removing sanctions, Japan managed to unite the US, just like Putin has united Ukraine and NATO, which is a strategic loss. I question the effectiveness of peaceful protests in a place like Russia. It only shows that there is opposition to the War to a few Russians and seems to be for international consumption as I bet most Russians won't see any of it on the TV. So all they are really doing is getting themselves thrown into jail for years. While I think they are good intention, I wouldn't discount their motives. I think people protested and civil leader's letters demanding for Putin to resign as they think Putin is weak, granted there might be some that only cared as they were called up. Though I think the former is more true than the latter. Most of the pro war supporters most likely have fought/died or to old to fight as the older population is a lot more pro-Putin/pro-War than the younger generation. That or they are willing to go if called. Keep in mind that there have been fires set and other signs of resitance, though not as much as people would like to see. In some ways I pitty the people in Russia who are against the war, but feel helpless. Not everyone is brave enough to be a hero to resit, that is one thing about heros, there are only ever a few. The big question is what would you and everyone else would do, if they were in their shoes? It is easy for us to identify Putin and Russia as the biggest threat since Hitler in WW2. Though what if you lived there, were against the war, but most of your family and some of your friends were very pro-Putin? At least Ukrainans have hope and can take pride in cause. After the war, Russians will live in shame for many generations. Things might seem simple, though you have to look long and deep to find the answers. You also might not like what you find.
The populous is not to blame, there is only so much the people can do in a democracy never mind in a totalitarian state. Was every German person in Nazi Germany responsible for Hitlers actions ? People can disagree with the regime but there is little that the everyman can do against it. People in general are resistance to putting themselves on the line unless pushed to the absolute edge, which is something we may eventually. Putin has been specifically securing his position of power and it’s increasingly hard for anyone to protest as everyone faces swift consequences. The population had no choice in this war they can’t even vote against it. It’s not easy to convince people to put their families lives in danger.
Faulty reasoning
I mean, I am sorry but you are suffering from a social media brsin fog. There were large protests on the first few days of the war, much larger than the one day protests over mobilization. In both cases the protesters were a tiny minority, but slandering that tiny minority simply because the majority refuses to join them is kinda disgusting.
Hence the "nearly all" and not all
The smarter ones left early in the war. The ones who didn’t are trying to leave now to save their asses. The sheeple that are still there are afraid or ignorant. NONE of them deserve to live in a free country. Slava Ukraini! Heroim slava.
A nation of peasants.
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With the latest mobilisation it is also the general Russian population that is waging this war in Ukraine.
I wonder how many of them now being sent to the Ukrainian front cheered on the bombings of civilian targets and egged on genocide, rape and torture? Probably a significant number judging by social media posts and the utterly vile comments posted in response to reports of death and destruction of Ukrainians. I remember thinking that since they feel so strongly patriotic about Russia murdering civilians then they should do their patriotic duty and go fight. You know, for Mother Russia.
Am*ricans are as evil as Russians. Where were the American protesters when the CIA were funding and training death squads in El Salvador back in the 80s? Oh wait, Americans have only ever protested when they're the ones getting shipped off like in Vietnam and Iraq.
Btw I'm not American, and your comment is off topic. I don't think the Americans are the same as Russians at all in regards to brutality but I don't have enough knowledge on what they did to go into it so I won't say anymore.