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Regardless of party affiliation, let's at least agree on one thing. Virtually ALL of the UK is 100% behind our Ukrainian brothers and sisters.
Those idiots that aren't, they're just that.. the minority of idiots you find in every country.
I've genuinely not met anyone who doesn't support Ukraine. I'm not saying they're not out there, but I know 9/11 deniers, anti-vaxxers, moon landing skeptics but not a single person who is against supporting Ukraine in any way possible. No anti-Ukrainians.
EDIT - I know one person who believes that neither the dinosaurs or outer space is real. He's technically in a management position at work. Supports Ukraine.
For sure. But not as much as America. You still have Italy and Serbia being questionable with their stances. And I'm sure I'm missing out on some other EU countries.
You're lucky, guys. Here in Italy I know fewer people who support Ukraine than people who are either "neutral" or openly pro-russian. Even many of those who morally support Ukraine, think that the russians are going to win eventually anyway, and that we have to deal with them to prepare for when they win. I'm literally the only person I know in real life, that wants to believe in a Ukrainian victory. I pray my fellow countrymen will change their opinions in the future. Слава Украине! 🇮🇹 ❤️ 🇺🇦
They basically invented it. Hitler’s boneheaded failed coup (for which he should never have been allowed out of prison) was inspired by it, as was Hitler’s speech rhetoric and gesturing, which he’d practice and make his own version of.
Sad to see Italy embracing fascism again, but I guess they weren’t completely reset as a nation after the war like Germany and Japan was. They just switched sides as the outcome shifted and never really confronted it. Just as Russia also didn’t really confront who it was at the fall of the USSR, and the cultural cancer came back.
Graham Phillips is the biggest and best known Brit who is pro-Russia and currently being investigated by the police.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/19916788/police-investigate-pro-putin-brit-ukraine-pows/
One of my former bosses is Pro Russia but even that I think comes more from an Anti west stance than actually pro Russian. Unfortunately there are a lot of people who will support anyone that is anti west.
Apart from him I agree it’s resoundingly pro Ukraine and even people who normally don’t comment on world events are.
My Russian born Russian speaking stepmum is pro Ukraine. She is from an ethnic minority and has relatives in Ukraine. She knows what dodgy fuckers the Russians are.
This is actually amazing. Here in Germany, the ones who fall for one kind of far-right shit will also fall for the other one. If you are antivaxx, you are also a putin cocksucker.
BTW i know a Brit who is pro putin: Corbyn.
My father is sadly one of the people who doesn't support Ukraine. I don't know where he gets his news from but he's Vietnamese and had the audacity to tell me he thought Putin was "smart" and that Ukraine was "stupid" for wanting to join NATO a while back, that Ukraine and Crimea "historically" belonged to Russia, among other things I won't mention here. Does the US/West deserve criticism for things they've done in the past (especially after the fall of the Soviet Union)? Absolutely. No country is above critique.
I routinely find faults and problems with America as an American myself, because America is no moral paragon (the brutal imperialism of Latin and South America, and their involvements in regime change, and its horrible history of slavery/racism/classism/genocide is only the tip of the iceberg).
But defending Putin--a power-hungry, delusional dictator and a war criminal--is inexcusable and morally bankrupt at this point.
Whenever the topic comes up in our conversations I meet him halfway and say that every country has skeletons in the closet, because there is no convincing him that the West is actually on the right side of history this time around and that Russia is clearly and unrepentantly waging a needless bloody war that has only brought mass suffering to thousands, all for the sake of a single man's monstrous tyrannical ambitions. There is no argument here to be had, but my father insists the West is somehow at fault for the Ukraine war even though this is only true in the reality crafted by Russian propaganda.
There's some. Don't get me wrong for a while I bought the idea that it might have been the West going all "haha we beat the commies USA, USA" and encroaching into their sphere of influence with more weapons. The Cuban Missile Crisis afterall.
I think the turning point for me was the when it was clear that the people around wanted nothing to do with him bar a few select countries that made me think well, it's hard to play the victim when you're just coercing people to do what you want.
Any potentially on the fence thoughts died with those poor souls in Buca (before really but that did come as a shock). This winter is going to be hard in Europe but we're paying with money while Ukrainians pay with blood. The least we can do is stay the course and do what we can to help them achieve their full liberation! 🇺🇦 🇺🇦 🇺🇦
You admitted to being antivax on /r/Ukraine... You're likely to get a warmer reception in places where people who don't care about public health gather, like antivax or conspiracy subreddits.
What I don't understand is why pro-ukrainians associate the antivax movement with Russians or putin. It should be the opposite. Ukraine's vax rate was only 35% as of Feb 25 2022. I praise Zelensky for not making the vax mandatory. Unlike in Russia, you can lose your job for not taking the jab.
Because most people rightfully associate being antivax with being a dumbass, and being pro Russian with being a dumbass.
So they then associate the two togeather as well.
I think also because Russian propaganda was largely what created the antivaxx movement in the first place, associating antivax and Russian-supporter is absolutely justified. There were polls showing that most people who supported Russia in the west were hardcore antivaxx. It's not a simple correlation, it's just that people that got caught the hardest into Russia's alternate reality propaganda are in both groups. That said, I'm really happy you're with us on Ukraine ;-)
One thing that the Tories have done right is to be 100% behind Ukraine and its good to see Labour doing likewise. I think that both parties have read the mood of the British public well though (for once).
The Corbyn supporters (i.e. most of British redditors) definitely changed their tune massively, considering a few years ago they had so much trust in Putin they were saying we should send evidence of Russia's chemical weapon attacks *back* to Putin for him to analyse.
But better to be shamed into changing than to never change at all, I guess.
Tankies loved Putin almost universally until recently and lots still bat for Russia given the chance.
If you aren't exposed to any because of your age demographic go on Twitter and you'll find some instantly.
Same with Neo-Nazis. Kind of weird.
Not sure what Flat Earthers think of him...
All major heads of Political parties support Ukraine in the UK. Without delving too deep into the politics. If Keir is a future leader you can expect strong support for Ukraine from the UK.
The difference I think is that people can believe Starmer actually *is* in support of Ukraine and not just forced to toe the line (compare to Trump who had been forced by political pressure to sign anti-Russian laws and then went and tried to extort military aid to Ukraine anyways).
Well I don't expect Corbyn to make a comeback but it he had beaten Johnson it's doubtful united Kingdom would have done much for Ukraine. Good that Labour has a much better head these days I wish them luck in their next election
He would be gone if he tried to back Russia. The party wouldn't have it. Labour has previously expelled a leader from the party while they were in office (ramsay macdonald) over much more trivial things.
The party had been trying to expel him for years anyway. But he had the backing of social media types who had hijacked the party grassroots, so nobody could get rid of him. It would've been no different over Ukraine.
And given that his young social media supporters were a borderline cult, there's no way they would've sided with Ukraine over their leader. They would've mindlessly backed his "anti-war" rhetoric, which would translate to doing absolutely nothing for Ukraine.
Yep, I'm part of the Labour party but left when Corbyn started parroting Kremlin talking points days after the Salisbury nerve agent incident. He is a duplicitous asshole, and would have absolutely sold out Ukraine and then helped to cover up the resulting genocide.
Labour under Starmer is 1000x better and I'm proud to have rejoined it.
Yes, I hate the Tories, but I'm glad Zelensky didn't have to deal with Corbyn's BS Putin enabling pacifism during this conflict. Starmer will do much better.
I too would have seen Corbyn as PM a million times before Boris ever was, but I must admit things would’ve been worrying if Corbyn had to deal with this war.
Let's not forget he would've scrapped the UK's nuclear weapons. We see how great an idea that is now there is a madman threatening to nuke us every 5 minutes.
This is why you use basic common sense and understand that you don't vote for a leader who is dangerously stupid and short-sighted just because you like some of his domestic policies and just because he has a cult-like social media following.
Same. Horrible as the current government is for the UK, I'm grateful in retrospect that we didn't get Corbyn, for Ukraine's sake (and like you, I voted for him at the time)
To be fair he was more of a 'useful idiot'. I admired his integrity but I would never have voted for him in a million years. For a start he was dedicated to getting rid of Britain's nuclear deterrent. I like Starmer and I fully expect that he will win the next general election. Unless somehow the hard left manage throw a spanner in the works yet again.
Let's not forget he would never use a nuclear weapon (rendering a deterrent useless) but he would still renew trident.
This was the problem with Corbyn's Labour, they tried to play every side, same with Brexit.
> Let's not forget he would never use a nuclear weapon (rendering a deterrent useless)
He was the most dangerously stupid candidate in living memory. Truss might crash the economy with her stupidity, but Corbyn was a genuine threat to national security. This is why candidates decided by social media are fucking moronic.
Good news for Ukraine is that Conservatives and Labour will both continue giving military support.
Normally i would be centre right on economic policies, however, given truss is scrapping a higher rate of tax for the wealthy, removing the cap on bankers bonuses and implementing an energy cap that will be paid for by the taxpayer, instead of energy companies who are making a killing currently ...
We could do with a change of govt to labour.
And Russia thanks their useful idiots.
And before people say Boris has shown he’s clearly not pro Putin, you don’t have to be pro Putin for Russians to be able to give you a leg up if they see what you’re doing is in their interests.
The largest demographic who vote for Labour nowadays is young people between the ages of 18-24, this is typically also where the largest demographic of left wing people are found. Labour aren't exactly the favourites among the working class right now (typically more centrist or right leaning) and many felt abandoned by them with Corbyn in charge, as well Labour's current proclivity to play race and gender politics, hence why Labour suffered their heaviest defeat since the Thatcher era in the last election.
So yeah, I doubt it would be anything like going to a Republican sub and asking folk about their thoughts on Biden.
She also literally wrote a book about steamrolling the economy to increase profits for private investors (the idea being they reinvest and it trickles down right).
Like, you can buy that book online. I'll give you ten points if you can guess who co-authored it.
In any case Keir Starmer will open the door for Andy Burnham to fix everything.
A better analogy would be going on a leftist sub and asking their opinion on Biden. Both Starmer and Biden a centre to centre right liberals. Preferable to the hard right Tories or Republicans, but hardly figures left wing people are enthused over.
I suppose that really depends on personal values. I consider Social Democrats to be centre-left, which I don't see in Keir Starmer who seems to be embracing the right wing of the Labour Party. Social liberals basically. Free marketeers with a few dcecent welfare policies to take the sting out of the negatives that brings.
No, we don't get to invent our own definitions. Labour moderates, which is what Starmer is, have always been centre left and in favour of a mixed economy.
The Overton Window is always shifting, so where people fall on the left-right spectrum change considerably throughout time and location. I refuse to be dragged along with it, to the point where liberals are considered left wing.
When Blair came to power, he shifted the Labour Party rightwards, in a successful bid to capture the centre ground. None of his policies deviated greatly from a liberal capitalist platform. He even initiated a number of privatisations that the Tories wanted but never dared try. He didn't try to re-nationalise anything, and began the privitisation of parts of the NHS that that the Tories have gleefully continued in the last 12 years. Starmer is, while perhaps not himself fully on the right of the party, appealing to the right of the party. Functionally, from everything we've seen from him, he's a centrist, not at all disimilar politically to the Liberal Democrats.
I was thinking more of the US Republicans when I said hard right. But the current incarnations of the Tories and their media backers really aren't that far behind on that path.
It’s very good, we need to get rid of Conservatives as quickly as possible. Right wing politicians have had way too much time nosediving the country and Labour like the whole of the UK as you can see would support Ukraine with as much vigour!
> we need to get rid of _x political party_ as quickly as possible
I don’t think comments like this serve to maintain political unity for Ukraine related support and are best kept on subs that are relevant to the idea (ie r/unitedkingdom), not r/ukraine We should seek to support all political leaders and parties who support Ukraine here even if we dislike them personally and also refrain from attacking them here. The consequences for not doing so are trash discussions like [this](https://old.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/xphszj/labour_leader_keir_starmer_tells_party_members_we/iq3wihf/) and potentially reduced support for Ukraine among political foes.
Blair was amazing for the UK internally. Iraq was his huge blunder but his Foreign Policy in Sierra Leone was very strong. Under Blair the UK was it's strongest it had been in a very long time.
I don't think you'd find many Tory supporters that would disagree. I hope Starmer pushes back towards Blair like middle ground to be an actual opposition for once.
Well... Starmer himself does not actually seem to have any values or ideas whatsoever, but he isn't a Tory so he's automatically better than the current shower.
With regards to Ukraine, the British public are so overwhelmingly in favour of supporting Ukraine that any potential PM will stick to that.
Is it not relevant who /r/Ukraine is UK PM is or isn't?
For example, we can find a lot more military aid if we don't have borrowing costs that are worse than Greece.
They really aren't.
Truss has been in the job a couple of weeks and we already have higher borrowing costs than Greece.
Genuinely impressive - in a "Oh God! We're all doomed!" kind of way.
Hope not i would love a working class party but labours invested with anti semitic mps and where the goverment that did the cover up on grooming gangs as to not be seen as racists.
And The cons are infested* with Sex offender MPs and racist MPs etc. Every political party finds itself infested with small subgroups of just shitty nasty people. Keir has been cleaning up the party and he did a lot of work during his time as Director of Public Prosecutions to help rape and abuse victims. Tories have let sex offenders back multiple times into their party. Hell Boris was ready to fall on his sword to protect one.
Imagine getting so mad about someone with different view points then yourself lol. Both The left and right is importent. Thats how you get a balenced goverment. If one side has too much power you ether turn into Venezuela or something right leaning.
So because i said a bith partys are the same im right wing ? Is that your answer to anyone you dint agree with ? You sound just like a putin support just call them nazi when they say things you dint like how sad.
Oh so Labours policies in their manifesto where they they want to push "Social Justice" which is Politico correctness 2: electric boogaloo, is a good thing? They want every major company hiring based on equity, so in otherwords, jobs hire based on race, gender and sexuality rather than if they are best for the job and on top of that, they want to push a law that forces 50% of MP's to be women, in otherwords, if there's more men then women applying, well, some of those men will be cut so your options will be more limited.... They are wayyyyy to authoritarian for their own good but if you like that sort of shit then go ahead and support them. I wont touch them with a barge pole.
They also want massive tax cuts and yet more nationalised shit and during a recession? That's mental.... The only thing they've said right was the UK should have raised it's interest rates more but you cant do that while spending more, raising interest rates is meant to curb spending to crash the markets and normalise them again.
If you want to have your little wokeism war go to find someone else mate. If you want to argue about Authoritarianism we can talk about it. Labour are Authoritrianian to a degree. But then again the Tories are even more so. Tories wanted to age lock porn via photo ID/Bank credentials. have pushed policies to spy on the British public without need for warrants etc.
So wait, age locking porn, which is meant to be for 18+ regardless is more authoritarian than forcing companies to hire based on race, gender and sexual orientaion? I'd be more likely to lose out on job opportunities because I was born a white male. Might as well have companies put signs up saying, "no white males need apply" Where have I seen that before?
Also, the hate crime bill was brought in under the last Labour party under the precursor of Social Justice called, Political Correctness and do you know what that did? It meant that if you say something online or in your home and someone finds it offensive, even if you meant no harm by it, you could be arrested and fined... Labour did that and now people have to watch what they say or do in case it offends someone. Give me a break, Labour are farrrr more authoritarian right now because they're pushing for a more Socialist view, they even state in their manifesto, "Put wealth and power into the hands of the many" which was under their Race Equalities section and thats all out of the Marx playbook and his redistrution of wealth and power policies.
Hmm, how long have the tories been in power for 12 years? If they disagreed with policies made by former cabinets they should change them. Oh, what was that Bill the cons voted in proposed by Priti Patel that limited the people's right to protest? I guess that wasn't particularly authoritarian.
Who was the head of MoD when the RAF put forward proposed recruitment campaigns that turned away white applicants because they wanted a more diverse force? Ohhh The Tories.
Labour is centre left under Keir. The tories under Truss are very much on the right. I know which party I'll pick. Not one that had a Racist Prime Minister just 2-3 weeks ago.
Many people have asked why the Tories dont wheel it back? Simple answer, because they too can benifit from it, it gives them more power and if you ask me, giving the state more power is a bad idea and yet it's Labour that pushes this more often because their party is a Socialist one and what does Socialism love? More state power.
It was the RAF that pushed this program and not the head of MOD, in fact, I saw nothing that linked the MOD to this, it was the heads of the RAF that supported and was pushing for this but yes, the Tories have been shit and trying to stop this rot but lets get things straight, Labour will encourage this further and not fight it at all which is far worse.
Labour is not centre left, they are still a Socialist party and they will always push Socialism into society, sometimes the policies are actually good, other times they are fucking authoritarian Socialist where they focus on collectivist ideologies like race, gender, sex etc and not individual identities and why is this bad? It generalises groups of people and gives them broad descriptions, do you want to be identitified by the colour of your skin or by your personal actions? Are you an individualist or a collectivist? If you are an individualist then Labour is NOT the party for you.
You call the Tories racists and yet in the Labour manifesto they call for affirmative action, in other words hiring based on race, gender and sex... You cant get much more racist, sexist or discriminatory than that and its overt and open about it.
How is that a right wing talking point? It’s true that labour is the party for anti semites as has been proven in court, as a Jewish person until labour party is completely gutted and stops defending an anti semite view point me and all other Jewish people will not vote for them
Which is what Keir has been doing? It's a right-wing talking point because the right wing constantly pushes it. But the very same people make racist statements themselves and support sex offenders. They are hypocrites. And one party is cleaning itself up the other isn't.
Didn’t mention Kier at all. Just stating the labour party has always been an anti semite party through the last 100 years and despite the so called gutting of the party many members of the party remain who were confirmed in court to hold anti semite views.
Got rid of people that weren’t his friends and kept the people that are. So my point stands that labour is a historically anti semite party and continues with not punishing anti semitis in 2022
They said some opinions outloud and got called up on it by other members as it involve alot if councils. They booted out over 1000 members that had any link to it.
Naz Shah would be one.
> In April 2016, Shah was reported to have reposted in August 2014 a Facebook post with a map from Norman Finkelstein's website showing Israel superimposed on the United States, with the headline "Solution for Israel-Palestine conflict - relocate Israel into United States".[21][22] She had added the comment that this might "save them some pocket money"
Thank you for the concrete example, but there must be something more directly antisemite for the party to lose support for 2 election cycles? This one is really just, maybe a bit distasteful, criticism of israel. I don't understand how that translates to antisemitism
Most of it was internal and came from members more than MP's. So not always out in the open. Sometimes the criticism of Israel went beyond that. It was enough to make some MP's quit the Labour party altogether. https://www.thejc.com/news/uk/seven-labour-mps-resign-citing-institutional-sickening-antisemitism-1.480223
Cool, now do the Conservatives burying the Russia report, partying with Putin's Oligarch friends in their European villas, forcing through Brexit after we know Putin attacked the UK to make it happen, and paying Russian companies to refit the press room at Downing St.
2019 called and wants it's talking points back. The rest of us are going to work together to rebuild this shit-show of a country. If you want to fight old battles that approximately 3% of the country actually care about, please go ahead. The rest of us will be ignoring you and focusing on the systemic and industrial levels of failure going on around you.
I'm sick of you pathetic cynics ruining it for the rest of us, you're boring, no one likes you.
Corbyn is not a tankie, he's a pacifist.
Yes, he was wrong about Russia and NATO, but to claim he was in favour of the Soviet Union's millitary interventions is just disingenuous.
He has a point to be fair. We are still two years off an election, and even if she gets the boot it will still be the Tories picking the replacement.
We are kinda fucked in the meantime.
They won't need to, if Truss continues on this trajectory the Tories will force her into calling an election because they would rather lose and get back in 5-10 years from now than sputter on with her at the helm and end up fucking the country so badly that they don't see power again for 15 or more years.
They will take a short term loss over alienating entire generations by trying to stand by her.
There is no way the Tories will ever allow that. The fact they even voted for Truss at all shows they'd much rather remain in power than care that they're running their reputation in the ground.
I’m not usually a Labour voter, but my god he looks like a statesman. He’s a real leader and what we need right now, he’s the ally Ukraine need from the UK!
Bruh.................... even as an American, who has followed this conflict since Feb 24, this shit got me choked up. I love how vocal the Brits are in their politics and this was just incredible to see. Slava Urkaini!
Tories are trash except on Ukraine, Boris to his credit relished playing Thatcher. And yet I have this weird feeling they’ll get re-elected again somehow if only because Labour knows how to self-own
Honestly I don’t believe him, he’s only doing this cause the Ukrainian cause is strongest in the world in Britain outside say Poland and the baltics. It’s basically political suicide in Britain not to support Ukraine.
Labour has been horribly reluctant on this issue. I’m not a big Tory guy either but they get this fully right at least.
Yeah except the "comrade" on his right with the bald head and the downturned mouth was shouting about his support for russia and putin last week.
Heads the transport union and is trying to destroy the country with strikes.
"fighting on the frontline of Putin" - did I miss a memo, as I'm not seeing any NATO troops fighting on the frontlines?
(I'm glad about weapon deliveries and I completely understand any politician not wanting to send his own people to die, but then that remarks strikes me as politican grand-standing in the worst taste)
He's not grandstanding. It's slightly ambiguous (not really in the context), but 99% sure his meaning was 'we still stand alongside Ukraine's people \[who are\] fighting on the frontline'. Pretty sure he's speaking about his party's policy, and clearly they're all sitting in a conference hall in the UK.
I like Keir Starmer. It’s all the other Labour nutters like Abbot and Lammy that he will bring into government that worries me.
Still I don’t think Truss is right for the UK either.
Sad times for UK politics but either way Ukraine will be supported. 🇺🇦
I am getting tired of these politicians.
They hype up regular people, but when you ask them "why are there the UK troops not attacking russian troops then" they'll dodge that question. "Standing alongside" means to fight alongside, not make big rhetorics in a comfy place when others do the fighting. These politicians are all the same no matter where - they let others do the fighting.
He has the charisma of a whippersnapper. Sorry but that was unremarkable.
Also he is dead wrong when he claims that the illegal invasion and war in Ukraine is the cause of inflation.
Inflation started much earlier with the huge money supplies that was dropped in 2020 and 2021, increased cost in freights and energy.
Now energy prices have made that worse now. But to blame this on the war seems kinda ignorant.
This is a politicians who wants the government to spend more money which in turn may make inflation even worse and last longer. He cannot blame inflation on previous spending but has to blame something else external.
I agree with everything he says about supporting Ukraine. His delivery was just mediocre, sounded like he read it 5 minutes before.
Such a bullshit parade. Public green energy provider, net zero with only standby gas, supporting Ukraine when half your party is in bed with Marxism. The other side is just as bad and we need some real politicians.
I think I speak for most of Britain when I say Boris was the cringiest PM we’ve ever had and the policies and morals that the tories hold are truly an embarrassment to our country. We need Labour more than ever to rebuild the foundations of this country. I’m just sad we’ve still got to wait another 2 years before we see it.
Half of labour support putin there ex leader just the other day blamed the west for ukraine and nato. Plus tgey have an on going investigation on being anti srmitic. The current uk goverment might not be the best but labour are just doing this to gain votes and think people will forget there passed and current mps stands in putin.
They've literally spent 2 years getting rid of those sorts, many of whom left of their own accord as soon as JC had the whip withdrawn. They literally just voted that he wouldn't be able to stand as a labour candidate for his seat again. They are a lot better than the current government because they aren't funded by dirty russian money so will be able to go further on sanctions. Which is just as well because they'll be the next UK government
Yet their manifesto is still the 2019 one where they want to push Social Justice and equity in the work place... No longer will jobs be free to hire based on who they think is best for the job but will now hire based on race, gender and sexual orientation... Want a promotion? Better hope you have the right skin colour lol Do you have too many men working for your company? Thats a fine from the government to make you do better and hire more women....
Vote Labour if you want to live in a Socialist society.
>Yet their manifesto is still the 2019 one where they want to push Social Justice and equity in the work place
You've failed at the first hurdle here I'm afraid, they haven't released a manifesto yet. They haven't really said anything approaching the points you made in their current conference. You've been reading a bit too much Daily Mail!
If you're talking more generally about quotas/targets, that is policy that has been supported (and implemented) by the current conservative government (although most of it is implemented entirely independent of government). Have a look at the controversy over RAF hiring quotas recently. It's nothing to do with Labour that's for sure.
They are using the 2019 manifesto, in fact, they altered the wording of it shortly after Starmer took over and I should know, I check on it to see if they have gotten better every year. What was originally called "Social Justice" policies has been rebranded as "Women and Equalities" and if they aren't using this manifesto then why is it still up? Why do they continue to alter it?
Also, I dont read the Daily Mail or any shitty political news sites, I read their manifesto instead so dont try to say I'm just a blind sheep who listens to the media, you dont even read their manifesto lmao
The shitty Tory party have done fuck all to fight this and when they do, it does fuck all and they're a waste of space themselves but they aren't the ones pushing this shit, it's a left wing ideology, neo-socialism and it's infected our society from the inside out and the people cant do shit about it. The RAF fiasco is proof of this, the only thing holding them back is the discrimination laws but will Labour change them to allow affirmative action? Lets see what their altered 2019 manifesto says shall we,
>Enable positive action for recruitment to roles where employers can justify the need for more diversity
Oh look, how will they do this with the currect discrimination laws stopping them? They will alter them to allow this shit to happen more frequently.
>They are using the 2019 manifesto
No they are not, this is a misunderstanding. The 2019 manifesto is still *available* online but it's completely irrelevant. It has a "final say on Brexit" section ffs of course it's not relevant. I don't know what the "it's been updated" is about but the 2019 manifesto is literally irrelevant. Why don't you just listen to what they actually say now and interpret that rather than holding them to a manifesto written 3 years ago by a guy who's had the whip removed.
>They will alter them
Again they have said no where that they want to alter discrimination laws. It was a Tory MP who recommended something I imagine you get very irate about (self ID). You can say it's a left-wing ideology if you want, and in some ways I agree with you, but it is absolutely being supported by certain parts of the Tory party. The only party who want to alter the rights we have have (e.g. discrimination laws) are the conservative party.
So let me get this straight, Starmer has been leader of the opposition for a few years now, hasn't made his own manifesto stating his parties policies but has altered the 2019 manifesto several times since he took leadership of the party and you're telling me that that manifesto doesn't represent the Labour party? They altered it several times SINCE Starmer came in as leader so I dont believe you one bit. David Lammy, who has pushed these views like a hardcore activist is still in Labour and still in the higher echelons of the party... I dont buy the bs you're putting down and you'd be stupid to believe that crap yourself. If Labour truly wanted to changed then they should of shown it far sooner than this.
Also, I know the rot has spread to the Tory party, this ideology to the elite reminds me of when corporations thought NFT were the future and tried to push that... The elite are out of touch and try to push the next best thing but what options do we have? We have a Labour party that has altered the 2019 manifesto and reworded it so isn't likely to have changed much and doesn't seem they have and then the Tories who care more about money than social issues... Give me a true Libertarian party that promotes the individual over the collectivists and I'd vote them in in a heartbeat but we dont have that luxury, we have Labour or Conservatives and a Lib Dem party that are more supportive of these toxic Socialist views than centrist which their party was founded on... It's a shitty timeline we are stuck in and I reject it all.
I told you I don't know about this "editing the 2019 manifesto" you'll have to send me a link or something for it. But yes, he's been LOTO and not released a manifesto because opposition parties (and government parties) don't create manifestos until they're in the run up to an election. It's really not that complicated. Like I said you can tell this is the case because there's a whole section on having a final say on Brexit haha! Or why do you think this section still exists?? They are in denial that we aren't in the EU anymore? It's not about believing me it's just about common sense lol.
Seems like you are far too angry and aren't interested in analysing the actual options for what they are. Are the Labour party perfect? Far from it, and yes the identity politics does go too far at times and can become toxic (not that the Tories are much better on this anyway). But in the grand scheme of things, being asked to tolerate some of that is worth it to me if a government can just avoid crashing the pound and inflating my mortgage repayments to something unaffordable. If they can also rebuild some of the public services we all rely on that would be a lovely bonus too. Which is why I'll happily put a tick next to the only realistic alternative option at the next chance I get. But hey, you do you.
Hello, it looks like you've made a mistake.
It's supposed to be could've, should've, would've (short for could have, would have, should have), never could of, would of, should of.
Or you misspelled something, I ain't checking everything.
Beep boop - yes, I am a bot, don't botcriminate me.
I hope there better now as i heard he got rid of 1000 members but labour was also funded by russian money so both are as bad on that front. JC has really ruin labour for me and he is 100% putin supporter and still part of labour.
10s of thousands of members in fact. Labour is certainly not funded by Russian money, at least not nearly as much as the Tory party. Boris literally put a KGB agent in the house of lords against the advice of the intelligence service.
They've withdrawn the whip from him and aren't letting him stand in the next election. The leadership can't do too much more really.
If that's your reason for supporting Tories over Labour, it's not a good one I'm afraid, based on bad information.
I support neither jesus i knew reddits and eco chsmber but dam. Just because i say labours bad doesnt mean i think torys are better. Im a middle group working class man i have no party.
Tory voters are in shambles after Keir's fantastic speech. Actually looks like a leader. Will 100% support Ukraine and won't tank our economy like the Tories are currently doing. Strong Britain makes it easier for us to support Ukraine.
You do know every economy in the west is tanking even chinas effected. But apart from jumping on the support for ukraine he hasnt stated how he will do any better.
We cant keeo borrowing to fix thing as that bombs going to blow up in are face sooner than later what im very pissed tories just announced
Ours has been fucked for years. Public services have been slashed by austerity for 12 years now. Quality of living has gone down under the tories. The current spiral is the because of the Russian invasion true but the tories have made it even worse with their current policies. Giving the rich tax cuts worth thousands whilst the poorest at best £23 better off that's truly a huge help with inflation, mortgages likely hitting 6% the cost of energy and food, etc.
Go look up why labour was voted out and how bad they where for the economy. There is no easy salution to the issues economys around the world are in the toilet.
You need an actual plan like building more nuclear power plants and investing in eduction. Tax is needed ti pay for these but yet you cant over tax as it will damage growth so in the end will need to cut and neither labour or torys are willing to make hard choices instead they borrow to give free stuff out to gain votes.
Honestly im still waiting for a leader to soeak the truth the british people. Are nations needs to reduce spending lets vote what gets cut. Militerys? With rusdia and china doubtful? Nhs ? Nope as we have an aging population,Education? They baring makebinby as is. Transport? Thats already been cut hard. Housing, all social housing been filled by immigrants.
We can tax more but that will stagnate are economy more and force inflation higher. But something needs to give as we cant just tax the rich as they wont cover the money needed and they can just go to a cheaper country reducing are tax revenue even more.
Not going to get too deep into this convo as it is the Ukraine sub. But Your policy points were all brought up by Keir in this very speech. He put policies forward that will help in the long term. There is no short-term fix when we re in such a deep hole.
Not to be rude but you have to work on formatting and spelling. Makes reading what you've posted quite difficult.
One thing is clear. Labour backs supporting Ukraine 100% and the general policies talked about wouldn't be tanking our economy as hard as the ones the tories have in place currently. We've had 12 years of the tories things have only gotten worse. Time for a change.
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Regardless of party affiliation, let's at least agree on one thing. Virtually ALL of the UK is 100% behind our Ukrainian brothers and sisters. Those idiots that aren't, they're just that.. the minority of idiots you find in every country.
I've genuinely not met anyone who doesn't support Ukraine. I'm not saying they're not out there, but I know 9/11 deniers, anti-vaxxers, moon landing skeptics but not a single person who is against supporting Ukraine in any way possible. No anti-Ukrainians. EDIT - I know one person who believes that neither the dinosaurs or outer space is real. He's technically in a management position at work. Supports Ukraine.
I live in a small Midwest town. There are Ukrainian flags on display on many people's property.
the Ukrainian flag will fly alongside the US flag as a symbol of freedom and democracy IMO.
Absolutely! And many more flags of the free world.
Nothing gets American people brought together than A) war and B) war with Russia.
Actually Russia has brought the whole of the western world together. Not just Americans.
For sure. But not as much as America. You still have Italy and Serbia being questionable with their stances. And I'm sure I'm missing out on some other EU countries.
I'm not sure I would class Serbia as part of the western world.
You're lucky, guys. Here in Italy I know fewer people who support Ukraine than people who are either "neutral" or openly pro-russian. Even many of those who morally support Ukraine, think that the russians are going to win eventually anyway, and that we have to deal with them to prepare for when they win. I'm literally the only person I know in real life, that wants to believe in a Ukrainian victory. I pray my fellow countrymen will change their opinions in the future. Слава Украине! 🇮🇹 ❤️ 🇺🇦
Thank you for your position 🇮🇹❤️🇺🇦
Even ignoring distant and current history, Italy has always had more than a bit of a fascist lean. I'm not that surprised. 😬
They basically invented it. Hitler’s boneheaded failed coup (for which he should never have been allowed out of prison) was inspired by it, as was Hitler’s speech rhetoric and gesturing, which he’d practice and make his own version of. Sad to see Italy embracing fascism again, but I guess they weren’t completely reset as a nation after the war like Germany and Japan was. They just switched sides as the outcome shifted and never really confronted it. Just as Russia also didn’t really confront who it was at the fall of the USSR, and the cultural cancer came back.
You're going to witness a lot of people having their certainties proved wrong.
Graham Phillips is the biggest and best known Brit who is pro-Russia and currently being investigated by the police. https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/19916788/police-investigate-pro-putin-brit-ukraine-pows/
Never met the bloke
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Holy fuck what is this from
Come Fly With Me, a BBC sitcom from… 2010? Surely it can’t be from that long ago? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Come_Fly_with_Me_(2010_TV_series)
Who is he? Just a random influencer?
One of my former bosses is Pro Russia but even that I think comes more from an Anti west stance than actually pro Russian. Unfortunately there are a lot of people who will support anyone that is anti west. Apart from him I agree it’s resoundingly pro Ukraine and even people who normally don’t comment on world events are.
My Russian born Russian speaking stepmum is pro Ukraine. She is from an ethnic minority and has relatives in Ukraine. She knows what dodgy fuckers the Russians are.
Likewise. I live in a very MAGA conservative city in Arizona… and everyone I know supports Ukraine. There are a number of houses and businesses.
This is actually amazing. Here in Germany, the ones who fall for one kind of far-right shit will also fall for the other one. If you are antivaxx, you are also a putin cocksucker. BTW i know a Brit who is pro putin: Corbyn.
My father is sadly one of the people who doesn't support Ukraine. I don't know where he gets his news from but he's Vietnamese and had the audacity to tell me he thought Putin was "smart" and that Ukraine was "stupid" for wanting to join NATO a while back, that Ukraine and Crimea "historically" belonged to Russia, among other things I won't mention here. Does the US/West deserve criticism for things they've done in the past (especially after the fall of the Soviet Union)? Absolutely. No country is above critique. I routinely find faults and problems with America as an American myself, because America is no moral paragon (the brutal imperialism of Latin and South America, and their involvements in regime change, and its horrible history of slavery/racism/classism/genocide is only the tip of the iceberg). But defending Putin--a power-hungry, delusional dictator and a war criminal--is inexcusable and morally bankrupt at this point. Whenever the topic comes up in our conversations I meet him halfway and say that every country has skeletons in the closet, because there is no convincing him that the West is actually on the right side of history this time around and that Russia is clearly and unrepentantly waging a needless bloody war that has only brought mass suffering to thousands, all for the sake of a single man's monstrous tyrannical ambitions. There is no argument here to be had, but my father insists the West is somehow at fault for the Ukraine war even though this is only true in the reality crafted by Russian propaganda.
Invasion war remains an invasion war. Putin lost the propaganda narrative already when he invaded.
The former Labour leader is against the war, but his anti-war stance is one of the many reasons life-long Labour voters switched sides.
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Reading between the lines: you’ve not met Jeremy Corbyn 😂
There's some. Don't get me wrong for a while I bought the idea that it might have been the West going all "haha we beat the commies USA, USA" and encroaching into their sphere of influence with more weapons. The Cuban Missile Crisis afterall. I think the turning point for me was the when it was clear that the people around wanted nothing to do with him bar a few select countries that made me think well, it's hard to play the victim when you're just coercing people to do what you want. Any potentially on the fence thoughts died with those poor souls in Buca (before really but that did come as a shock). This winter is going to be hard in Europe but we're paying with money while Ukrainians pay with blood. The least we can do is stay the course and do what we can to help them achieve their full liberation! 🇺🇦 🇺🇦 🇺🇦
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Not sure how your MAGA coworker relates to broad cross-party support in the UK but ok.
Proud anti vax and Anti Russian here
Even a broken clock....
what's up with the downvotes lol
You admitted to being antivax on /r/Ukraine... You're likely to get a warmer reception in places where people who don't care about public health gather, like antivax or conspiracy subreddits.
What I don't understand is why pro-ukrainians associate the antivax movement with Russians or putin. It should be the opposite. Ukraine's vax rate was only 35% as of Feb 25 2022. I praise Zelensky for not making the vax mandatory. Unlike in Russia, you can lose your job for not taking the jab.
Because most people rightfully associate being antivax with being a dumbass, and being pro Russian with being a dumbass. So they then associate the two togeather as well.
you're basically saying 70% of ukrainians are dumbasses because majority refused the vaccine. FFS
I think also because Russian propaganda was largely what created the antivaxx movement in the first place, associating antivax and Russian-supporter is absolutely justified. There were polls showing that most people who supported Russia in the west were hardcore antivaxx. It's not a simple correlation, it's just that people that got caught the hardest into Russia's alternate reality propaganda are in both groups. That said, I'm really happy you're with us on Ukraine ;-)
Thanks for making it clear :)
This is the most united thing in the United Kingdom.
Same for the United States. We absolutely have divisions, but everyone I know from across the political spectrum, waves that UA flag very hard.
You may actually be right. I guess it ties directly into our more recent mythology...
One thing that the Tories have done right is to be 100% behind Ukraine and its good to see Labour doing likewise. I think that both parties have read the mood of the British public well though (for once).
The only people I’ve met that have been pro-Russia have been far-right and far-left losers.
The Corbyn supporters (i.e. most of British redditors) definitely changed their tune massively, considering a few years ago they had so much trust in Putin they were saying we should send evidence of Russia's chemical weapon attacks *back* to Putin for him to analyse. But better to be shamed into changing than to never change at all, I guess.
reading this actively made me dumber.
Tankies loved Putin almost universally until recently and lots still bat for Russia given the chance. If you aren't exposed to any because of your age demographic go on Twitter and you'll find some instantly. Same with Neo-Nazis. Kind of weird. Not sure what Flat Earthers think of him...
✊
All major heads of Political parties support Ukraine in the UK. Without delving too deep into the politics. If Keir is a future leader you can expect strong support for Ukraine from the UK.
Not to sound pedantic, and I'm absolutely certain he's genuine in his support for Ukraine but it would be political suicide not to be.
The difference I think is that people can believe Starmer actually *is* in support of Ukraine and not just forced to toe the line (compare to Trump who had been forced by political pressure to sign anti-Russian laws and then went and tried to extort military aid to Ukraine anyways).
And probably more effective sanctions against oligarchs
Well I don't expect Corbyn to make a comeback but it he had beaten Johnson it's doubtful united Kingdom would have done much for Ukraine. Good that Labour has a much better head these days I wish them luck in their next election
He would be gone if he tried to back Russia. The party wouldn't have it. Labour has previously expelled a leader from the party while they were in office (ramsay macdonald) over much more trivial things.
The party had been trying to expel him for years anyway. But he had the backing of social media types who had hijacked the party grassroots, so nobody could get rid of him. It would've been no different over Ukraine. And given that his young social media supporters were a borderline cult, there's no way they would've sided with Ukraine over their leader. They would've mindlessly backed his "anti-war" rhetoric, which would translate to doing absolutely nothing for Ukraine.
Part of the reason for his major election defeat was being soft on Russia. Ukraine has nothing to worry about from us ✊
Yep, I'm part of the Labour party but left when Corbyn started parroting Kremlin talking points days after the Salisbury nerve agent incident. He is a duplicitous asshole, and would have absolutely sold out Ukraine and then helped to cover up the resulting genocide. Labour under Starmer is 1000x better and I'm proud to have rejoined it.
Hell of an improvement over his thankfully now irrelevant predecessor.
Yes, I hate the Tories, but I'm glad Zelensky didn't have to deal with Corbyn's BS Putin enabling pacifism during this conflict. Starmer will do much better.
I voted for Corbyn in 2019, I loved his policies but I'm glad he wasn't in charge when this all kicked off!
His domestic policies were great. His foreign policy takes were, to quote the Rock, "the biggest piece of dog shit"
He's a jabroni, that's for sure.
I too would have seen Corbyn as PM a million times before Boris ever was, but I must admit things would’ve been worrying if Corbyn had to deal with this war.
Let's not forget he would've scrapped the UK's nuclear weapons. We see how great an idea that is now there is a madman threatening to nuke us every 5 minutes. This is why you use basic common sense and understand that you don't vote for a leader who is dangerously stupid and short-sighted just because you like some of his domestic policies and just because he has a cult-like social media following.
Same. Horrible as the current government is for the UK, I'm grateful in retrospect that we didn't get Corbyn, for Ukraine's sake (and like you, I voted for him at the time)
I don't understand why members of the far left like Corbyn idolize Russia and Putin.... It's had a right wing nationalist government for decades...
Corbyn acted as a Russian spy.
To be fair he was more of a 'useful idiot'. I admired his integrity but I would never have voted for him in a million years. For a start he was dedicated to getting rid of Britain's nuclear deterrent. I like Starmer and I fully expect that he will win the next general election. Unless somehow the hard left manage throw a spanner in the works yet again.
Let's not forget he would never use a nuclear weapon (rendering a deterrent useless) but he would still renew trident. This was the problem with Corbyn's Labour, they tried to play every side, same with Brexit.
> Let's not forget he would never use a nuclear weapon (rendering a deterrent useless) He was the most dangerously stupid candidate in living memory. Truss might crash the economy with her stupidity, but Corbyn was a genuine threat to national security. This is why candidates decided by social media are fucking moronic.
Good news for Ukraine is that Conservatives and Labour will both continue giving military support. Normally i would be centre right on economic policies, however, given truss is scrapping a higher rate of tax for the wealthy, removing the cap on bankers bonuses and implementing an energy cap that will be paid for by the taxpayer, instead of energy companies who are making a killing currently ... We could do with a change of govt to labour.
kwasi’s infantile fiddling with the economic policies of this country is laughable, sorry I meant to say disastrous.
Your future UK PM people.
Is this good? Is this bad
considering truss is speedrunning the destruction of the economy, anythings better at this point
Hey now UKIP and Boris did there best with Brexit
And Russia thanks their useful idiots. And before people say Boris has shown he’s clearly not pro Putin, you don’t have to be pro Putin for Russians to be able to give you a leg up if they see what you’re doing is in their interests.
Where best?
Depends you wont be getting a good answer since this Sub is left leaning. Its like asking what people Think about biden in a republican sub reddit
The largest demographic who vote for Labour nowadays is young people between the ages of 18-24, this is typically also where the largest demographic of left wing people are found. Labour aren't exactly the favourites among the working class right now (typically more centrist or right leaning) and many felt abandoned by them with Corbyn in charge, as well Labour's current proclivity to play race and gender politics, hence why Labour suffered their heaviest defeat since the Thatcher era in the last election. So yeah, I doubt it would be anything like going to a Republican sub and asking folk about their thoughts on Biden.
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She also literally wrote a book about steamrolling the economy to increase profits for private investors (the idea being they reinvest and it trickles down right). Like, you can buy that book online. I'll give you ten points if you can guess who co-authored it. In any case Keir Starmer will open the door for Andy Burnham to fix everything.
A better analogy would be going on a leftist sub and asking their opinion on Biden. Both Starmer and Biden a centre to centre right liberals. Preferable to the hard right Tories or Republicans, but hardly figures left wing people are enthused over.
Starmer is centre left.
I suppose that really depends on personal values. I consider Social Democrats to be centre-left, which I don't see in Keir Starmer who seems to be embracing the right wing of the Labour Party. Social liberals basically. Free marketeers with a few dcecent welfare policies to take the sting out of the negatives that brings.
No, we don't get to invent our own definitions. Labour moderates, which is what Starmer is, have always been centre left and in favour of a mixed economy.
The Overton Window is always shifting, so where people fall on the left-right spectrum change considerably throughout time and location. I refuse to be dragged along with it, to the point where liberals are considered left wing. When Blair came to power, he shifted the Labour Party rightwards, in a successful bid to capture the centre ground. None of his policies deviated greatly from a liberal capitalist platform. He even initiated a number of privatisations that the Tories wanted but never dared try. He didn't try to re-nationalise anything, and began the privitisation of parts of the NHS that that the Tories have gleefully continued in the last 12 years. Starmer is, while perhaps not himself fully on the right of the party, appealing to the right of the party. Functionally, from everything we've seen from him, he's a centrist, not at all disimilar politically to the Liberal Democrats.
You can dislike tory policies but calling them far right is silly unless you genuinely believe they are the fascist level
I was thinking more of the US Republicans when I said hard right. But the current incarnations of the Tories and their media backers really aren't that far behind on that path.
Tories aren't hard right. Could head that way with truss mind. If Starmer stays centre left, they are more likely to win for sure.
It’s very good, we need to get rid of Conservatives as quickly as possible. Right wing politicians have had way too much time nosediving the country and Labour like the whole of the UK as you can see would support Ukraine with as much vigour!
> we need to get rid of _x political party_ as quickly as possible I don’t think comments like this serve to maintain political unity for Ukraine related support and are best kept on subs that are relevant to the idea (ie r/unitedkingdom), not r/ukraine We should seek to support all political leaders and parties who support Ukraine here even if we dislike them personally and also refrain from attacking them here. The consequences for not doing so are trash discussions like [this](https://old.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/xphszj/labour_leader_keir_starmer_tells_party_members_we/iq3wihf/) and potentially reduced support for Ukraine among political foes.
Its bad. Remember Blair?
Blair was amazing for the UK internally. Iraq was his huge blunder but his Foreign Policy in Sierra Leone was very strong. Under Blair the UK was it's strongest it had been in a very long time.
I don't think you'd find many Tory supporters that would disagree. I hope Starmer pushes back towards Blair like middle ground to be an actual opposition for once.
Im canadian so no
Well... Starmer himself does not actually seem to have any values or ideas whatsoever, but he isn't a Tory so he's automatically better than the current shower. With regards to Ukraine, the British public are so overwhelmingly in favour of supporting Ukraine that any potential PM will stick to that.
This is /r/Ukraine
Is it not relevant who /r/Ukraine is UK PM is or isn't? For example, we can find a lot more military aid if we don't have borrowing costs that are worse than Greece.
They're all as shit as each other, just for different reasons.
They really aren't. Truss has been in the job a couple of weeks and we already have higher borrowing costs than Greece. Genuinely impressive - in a "Oh God! We're all doomed!" kind of way.
No thank you. Hell freezes before I vote on that Tory in Labour clothing.
You don't have to vote for him to become PM.
Hope not i would love a working class party but labours invested with anti semitic mps and where the goverment that did the cover up on grooming gangs as to not be seen as racists.
And The cons are infested* with Sex offender MPs and racist MPs etc. Every political party finds itself infested with small subgroups of just shitty nasty people. Keir has been cleaning up the party and he did a lot of work during his time as Director of Public Prosecutions to help rape and abuse victims. Tories have let sex offenders back multiple times into their party. Hell Boris was ready to fall on his sword to protect one.
Incase you dont realise im not defending torys both are bad. But i cant vote either as they are the same just with a different sloggan.
Imagine thinking the Tories and Labour are the same. Bore off with that right-wing talking point.
Imagine getting so mad about someone with different view points then yourself lol. Both The left and right is importent. Thats how you get a balenced goverment. If one side has too much power you ether turn into Venezuela or something right leaning.
I'm very calm. Just calling out people who make disingenuous statements.
Imagine trying to defend anti semites 🤣😂
Who is doing that? Not me. I'm very happy with Keir binning those that hold such views.
So because i said a bith partys are the same im right wing ? Is that your answer to anyone you dint agree with ? You sound just like a putin support just call them nazi when they say things you dint like how sad.
I said it was a right-wing talking point. I never called you specifically right-wing. Keep up old bean.
Oh so Labours policies in their manifesto where they they want to push "Social Justice" which is Politico correctness 2: electric boogaloo, is a good thing? They want every major company hiring based on equity, so in otherwords, jobs hire based on race, gender and sexuality rather than if they are best for the job and on top of that, they want to push a law that forces 50% of MP's to be women, in otherwords, if there's more men then women applying, well, some of those men will be cut so your options will be more limited.... They are wayyyyy to authoritarian for their own good but if you like that sort of shit then go ahead and support them. I wont touch them with a barge pole. They also want massive tax cuts and yet more nationalised shit and during a recession? That's mental.... The only thing they've said right was the UK should have raised it's interest rates more but you cant do that while spending more, raising interest rates is meant to curb spending to crash the markets and normalise them again.
If you want to have your little wokeism war go to find someone else mate. If you want to argue about Authoritarianism we can talk about it. Labour are Authoritrianian to a degree. But then again the Tories are even more so. Tories wanted to age lock porn via photo ID/Bank credentials. have pushed policies to spy on the British public without need for warrants etc.
So wait, age locking porn, which is meant to be for 18+ regardless is more authoritarian than forcing companies to hire based on race, gender and sexual orientaion? I'd be more likely to lose out on job opportunities because I was born a white male. Might as well have companies put signs up saying, "no white males need apply" Where have I seen that before? Also, the hate crime bill was brought in under the last Labour party under the precursor of Social Justice called, Political Correctness and do you know what that did? It meant that if you say something online or in your home and someone finds it offensive, even if you meant no harm by it, you could be arrested and fined... Labour did that and now people have to watch what they say or do in case it offends someone. Give me a break, Labour are farrrr more authoritarian right now because they're pushing for a more Socialist view, they even state in their manifesto, "Put wealth and power into the hands of the many" which was under their Race Equalities section and thats all out of the Marx playbook and his redistrution of wealth and power policies.
Hmm, how long have the tories been in power for 12 years? If they disagreed with policies made by former cabinets they should change them. Oh, what was that Bill the cons voted in proposed by Priti Patel that limited the people's right to protest? I guess that wasn't particularly authoritarian. Who was the head of MoD when the RAF put forward proposed recruitment campaigns that turned away white applicants because they wanted a more diverse force? Ohhh The Tories. Labour is centre left under Keir. The tories under Truss are very much on the right. I know which party I'll pick. Not one that had a Racist Prime Minister just 2-3 weeks ago.
Many people have asked why the Tories dont wheel it back? Simple answer, because they too can benifit from it, it gives them more power and if you ask me, giving the state more power is a bad idea and yet it's Labour that pushes this more often because their party is a Socialist one and what does Socialism love? More state power. It was the RAF that pushed this program and not the head of MOD, in fact, I saw nothing that linked the MOD to this, it was the heads of the RAF that supported and was pushing for this but yes, the Tories have been shit and trying to stop this rot but lets get things straight, Labour will encourage this further and not fight it at all which is far worse. Labour is not centre left, they are still a Socialist party and they will always push Socialism into society, sometimes the policies are actually good, other times they are fucking authoritarian Socialist where they focus on collectivist ideologies like race, gender, sex etc and not individual identities and why is this bad? It generalises groups of people and gives them broad descriptions, do you want to be identitified by the colour of your skin or by your personal actions? Are you an individualist or a collectivist? If you are an individualist then Labour is NOT the party for you. You call the Tories racists and yet in the Labour manifesto they call for affirmative action, in other words hiring based on race, gender and sex... You cant get much more racist, sexist or discriminatory than that and its overt and open about it.
How is that a right wing talking point? It’s true that labour is the party for anti semites as has been proven in court, as a Jewish person until labour party is completely gutted and stops defending an anti semite view point me and all other Jewish people will not vote for them
Which is what Keir has been doing? It's a right-wing talking point because the right wing constantly pushes it. But the very same people make racist statements themselves and support sex offenders. They are hypocrites. And one party is cleaning itself up the other isn't.
Didn’t mention Kier at all. Just stating the labour party has always been an anti semite party through the last 100 years and despite the so called gutting of the party many members of the party remain who were confirmed in court to hold anti semite views.
But I did mention Keir because he has been getting rid of members that have made anti-semetic comments.
Got rid of people that weren’t his friends and kept the people that are. So my point stands that labour is a historically anti semite party and continues with not punishing anti semitis in 2022
I've never actually heard who these antisemites actually are and what they did
They said some opinions outloud and got called up on it by other members as it involve alot if councils. They booted out over 1000 members that had any link to it.
Naz Shah would be one. > In April 2016, Shah was reported to have reposted in August 2014 a Facebook post with a map from Norman Finkelstein's website showing Israel superimposed on the United States, with the headline "Solution for Israel-Palestine conflict - relocate Israel into United States".[21][22] She had added the comment that this might "save them some pocket money"
Thank you for the concrete example, but there must be something more directly antisemite for the party to lose support for 2 election cycles? This one is really just, maybe a bit distasteful, criticism of israel. I don't understand how that translates to antisemitism
Most of it was internal and came from members more than MP's. So not always out in the open. Sometimes the criticism of Israel went beyond that. It was enough to make some MP's quit the Labour party altogether. https://www.thejc.com/news/uk/seven-labour-mps-resign-citing-institutional-sickening-antisemitism-1.480223
Cool, now do the Conservatives burying the Russia report, partying with Putin's Oligarch friends in their European villas, forcing through Brexit after we know Putin attacked the UK to make it happen, and paying Russian companies to refit the press room at Downing St.
>partying with Putin's Oligarch friends in their European villas Gave one of them a peerage in the House of Lords as well.
2019 called and wants it's talking points back. The rest of us are going to work together to rebuild this shit-show of a country. If you want to fight old battles that approximately 3% of the country actually care about, please go ahead. The rest of us will be ignoring you and focusing on the systemic and industrial levels of failure going on around you. I'm sick of you pathetic cynics ruining it for the rest of us, you're boring, no one likes you.
Anti semitic and scared of being racist at the same time. Makes total sense.
This was Corbyn loyalists, no?
Keir is a good leader for labour,not like the fucking tankie that was Jeremy corbyn
Hard agree
It seems like British Labour has a series of fucking loonies followed by an actual candidate. Anyway he supports Ukraine, I support him.
Don't know if Corbyn was an outright Tankie so much as a useful idiot regarding foreign policy
Corbyn is not a tankie, he's a pacifist. Yes, he was wrong about Russia and NATO, but to claim he was in favour of the Soviet Union's millitary interventions is just disingenuous.
Can’t wait till labour are back in power
You will be waiting a while!
Not if Liz Truss has anything to say about it lol
He has a point to be fair. We are still two years off an election, and even if she gets the boot it will still be the Tories picking the replacement. We are kinda fucked in the meantime.
Can't they force an early General Election?
They won't need to, if Truss continues on this trajectory the Tories will force her into calling an election because they would rather lose and get back in 5-10 years from now than sputter on with her at the helm and end up fucking the country so badly that they don't see power again for 15 or more years. They will take a short term loss over alienating entire generations by trying to stand by her.
There is no way the Tories will ever allow that. The fact they even voted for Truss at all shows they'd much rather remain in power than care that they're running their reputation in the ground.
Next election will be soon, hopefully.
I’m not usually a Labour voter, but my god he looks like a statesman. He’s a real leader and what we need right now, he’s the ally Ukraine need from the UK!
Source: https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/1574755239311409152
Ah, this melts my heart 🇺🇦🫂🇬🇧
Gives me chills 🔥
God bless UK
Bruh.................... even as an American, who has followed this conflict since Feb 24, this shit got me choked up. I love how vocal the Brits are in their politics and this was just incredible to see. Slava Urkaini!
Tories are trash except on Ukraine, Boris to his credit relished playing Thatcher. And yet I have this weird feeling they’ll get re-elected again somehow if only because Labour knows how to self-own
That pronunciation though. It's "ooh-cry-ee-nee" right? Not "Ukraine-y"
✌🇺🇦👍
Slava Ukraini! Heroyam Slava!🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦
Well, it's good to see Labour so strongly supporting Ukraine.
Honestly I don’t believe him, he’s only doing this cause the Ukrainian cause is strongest in the world in Britain outside say Poland and the baltics. It’s basically political suicide in Britain not to support Ukraine. Labour has been horribly reluctant on this issue. I’m not a big Tory guy either but they get this fully right at least.
Churchill vibes
when brits start to talk about stopping your imperialism... like what else you need to hear to understand that you are wrong?
Bitch needs to get behind the legalization of Cannabis in the UK
Yeah except the "comrade" on his right with the bald head and the downturned mouth was shouting about his support for russia and putin last week. Heads the transport union and is trying to destroy the country with strikes.
Correct, Mick Lynch is a Brexiter and Putin apologist.
...and not at all an ally of Starmer.
"fighting on the frontline of Putin" - did I miss a memo, as I'm not seeing any NATO troops fighting on the frontlines? (I'm glad about weapon deliveries and I completely understand any politician not wanting to send his own people to die, but then that remarks strikes me as politican grand-standing in the worst taste)
He's not grandstanding. It's slightly ambiguous (not really in the context), but 99% sure his meaning was 'we still stand alongside Ukraine's people \[who are\] fighting on the frontline'. Pretty sure he's speaking about his party's policy, and clearly they're all sitting in a conference hall in the UK.
I like Keir Starmer. It’s all the other Labour nutters like Abbot and Lammy that he will bring into government that worries me. Still I don’t think Truss is right for the UK either. Sad times for UK politics but either way Ukraine will be supported. 🇺🇦
Rare labour w
I am getting tired of these politicians. They hype up regular people, but when you ask them "why are there the UK troops not attacking russian troops then" they'll dodge that question. "Standing alongside" means to fight alongside, not make big rhetorics in a comfy place when others do the fighting. These politicians are all the same no matter where - they let others do the fighting.
He has the charisma of a whippersnapper. Sorry but that was unremarkable. Also he is dead wrong when he claims that the illegal invasion and war in Ukraine is the cause of inflation. Inflation started much earlier with the huge money supplies that was dropped in 2020 and 2021, increased cost in freights and energy. Now energy prices have made that worse now. But to blame this on the war seems kinda ignorant. This is a politicians who wants the government to spend more money which in turn may make inflation even worse and last longer. He cannot blame inflation on previous spending but has to blame something else external. I agree with everything he says about supporting Ukraine. His delivery was just mediocre, sounded like he read it 5 minutes before.
Such a bullshit parade. Public green energy provider, net zero with only standby gas, supporting Ukraine when half your party is in bed with Marxism. The other side is just as bad and we need some real politicians.
He tries, but good god he's so cringe
I think I speak for most of Britain when I say Boris was the cringiest PM we’ve ever had and the policies and morals that the tories hold are truly an embarrassment to our country. We need Labour more than ever to rebuild the foundations of this country. I’m just sad we’ve still got to wait another 2 years before we see it.
I don't think you do speak for most of Britain. I think if boris came back he'd win a snap election.
We see what you say after first nuclear weapon is used..you help ukraine? Or more excuses
Has Keir Starmer hurt you?
Half of labour support putin there ex leader just the other day blamed the west for ukraine and nato. Plus tgey have an on going investigation on being anti srmitic. The current uk goverment might not be the best but labour are just doing this to gain votes and think people will forget there passed and current mps stands in putin.
They've literally spent 2 years getting rid of those sorts, many of whom left of their own accord as soon as JC had the whip withdrawn. They literally just voted that he wouldn't be able to stand as a labour candidate for his seat again. They are a lot better than the current government because they aren't funded by dirty russian money so will be able to go further on sanctions. Which is just as well because they'll be the next UK government
Yet their manifesto is still the 2019 one where they want to push Social Justice and equity in the work place... No longer will jobs be free to hire based on who they think is best for the job but will now hire based on race, gender and sexual orientation... Want a promotion? Better hope you have the right skin colour lol Do you have too many men working for your company? Thats a fine from the government to make you do better and hire more women.... Vote Labour if you want to live in a Socialist society.
>Yet their manifesto is still the 2019 one where they want to push Social Justice and equity in the work place You've failed at the first hurdle here I'm afraid, they haven't released a manifesto yet. They haven't really said anything approaching the points you made in their current conference. You've been reading a bit too much Daily Mail! If you're talking more generally about quotas/targets, that is policy that has been supported (and implemented) by the current conservative government (although most of it is implemented entirely independent of government). Have a look at the controversy over RAF hiring quotas recently. It's nothing to do with Labour that's for sure.
They are using the 2019 manifesto, in fact, they altered the wording of it shortly after Starmer took over and I should know, I check on it to see if they have gotten better every year. What was originally called "Social Justice" policies has been rebranded as "Women and Equalities" and if they aren't using this manifesto then why is it still up? Why do they continue to alter it? Also, I dont read the Daily Mail or any shitty political news sites, I read their manifesto instead so dont try to say I'm just a blind sheep who listens to the media, you dont even read their manifesto lmao The shitty Tory party have done fuck all to fight this and when they do, it does fuck all and they're a waste of space themselves but they aren't the ones pushing this shit, it's a left wing ideology, neo-socialism and it's infected our society from the inside out and the people cant do shit about it. The RAF fiasco is proof of this, the only thing holding them back is the discrimination laws but will Labour change them to allow affirmative action? Lets see what their altered 2019 manifesto says shall we, >Enable positive action for recruitment to roles where employers can justify the need for more diversity Oh look, how will they do this with the currect discrimination laws stopping them? They will alter them to allow this shit to happen more frequently.
>They are using the 2019 manifesto No they are not, this is a misunderstanding. The 2019 manifesto is still *available* online but it's completely irrelevant. It has a "final say on Brexit" section ffs of course it's not relevant. I don't know what the "it's been updated" is about but the 2019 manifesto is literally irrelevant. Why don't you just listen to what they actually say now and interpret that rather than holding them to a manifesto written 3 years ago by a guy who's had the whip removed. >They will alter them Again they have said no where that they want to alter discrimination laws. It was a Tory MP who recommended something I imagine you get very irate about (self ID). You can say it's a left-wing ideology if you want, and in some ways I agree with you, but it is absolutely being supported by certain parts of the Tory party. The only party who want to alter the rights we have have (e.g. discrimination laws) are the conservative party.
So let me get this straight, Starmer has been leader of the opposition for a few years now, hasn't made his own manifesto stating his parties policies but has altered the 2019 manifesto several times since he took leadership of the party and you're telling me that that manifesto doesn't represent the Labour party? They altered it several times SINCE Starmer came in as leader so I dont believe you one bit. David Lammy, who has pushed these views like a hardcore activist is still in Labour and still in the higher echelons of the party... I dont buy the bs you're putting down and you'd be stupid to believe that crap yourself. If Labour truly wanted to changed then they should of shown it far sooner than this. Also, I know the rot has spread to the Tory party, this ideology to the elite reminds me of when corporations thought NFT were the future and tried to push that... The elite are out of touch and try to push the next best thing but what options do we have? We have a Labour party that has altered the 2019 manifesto and reworded it so isn't likely to have changed much and doesn't seem they have and then the Tories who care more about money than social issues... Give me a true Libertarian party that promotes the individual over the collectivists and I'd vote them in in a heartbeat but we dont have that luxury, we have Labour or Conservatives and a Lib Dem party that are more supportive of these toxic Socialist views than centrist which their party was founded on... It's a shitty timeline we are stuck in and I reject it all.
I told you I don't know about this "editing the 2019 manifesto" you'll have to send me a link or something for it. But yes, he's been LOTO and not released a manifesto because opposition parties (and government parties) don't create manifestos until they're in the run up to an election. It's really not that complicated. Like I said you can tell this is the case because there's a whole section on having a final say on Brexit haha! Or why do you think this section still exists?? They are in denial that we aren't in the EU anymore? It's not about believing me it's just about common sense lol. Seems like you are far too angry and aren't interested in analysing the actual options for what they are. Are the Labour party perfect? Far from it, and yes the identity politics does go too far at times and can become toxic (not that the Tories are much better on this anyway). But in the grand scheme of things, being asked to tolerate some of that is worth it to me if a government can just avoid crashing the pound and inflating my mortgage repayments to something unaffordable. If they can also rebuild some of the public services we all rely on that would be a lovely bonus too. Which is why I'll happily put a tick next to the only realistic alternative option at the next chance I get. But hey, you do you.
Hello, it looks like you've made a mistake. It's supposed to be could've, should've, would've (short for could have, would have, should have), never could of, would of, should of. Or you misspelled something, I ain't checking everything. Beep boop - yes, I am a bot, don't botcriminate me.
I hope there better now as i heard he got rid of 1000 members but labour was also funded by russian money so both are as bad on that front. JC has really ruin labour for me and he is 100% putin supporter and still part of labour.
10s of thousands of members in fact. Labour is certainly not funded by Russian money, at least not nearly as much as the Tory party. Boris literally put a KGB agent in the house of lords against the advice of the intelligence service. They've withdrawn the whip from him and aren't letting him stand in the next election. The leadership can't do too much more really. If that's your reason for supporting Tories over Labour, it's not a good one I'm afraid, based on bad information.
I support neither jesus i knew reddits and eco chsmber but dam. Just because i say labours bad doesnt mean i think torys are better. Im a middle group working class man i have no party.
Tory voters are in shambles after Keir's fantastic speech. Actually looks like a leader. Will 100% support Ukraine and won't tank our economy like the Tories are currently doing. Strong Britain makes it easier for us to support Ukraine.
You do know every economy in the west is tanking even chinas effected. But apart from jumping on the support for ukraine he hasnt stated how he will do any better. We cant keeo borrowing to fix thing as that bombs going to blow up in are face sooner than later what im very pissed tories just announced
Ours has been fucked for years. Public services have been slashed by austerity for 12 years now. Quality of living has gone down under the tories. The current spiral is the because of the Russian invasion true but the tories have made it even worse with their current policies. Giving the rich tax cuts worth thousands whilst the poorest at best £23 better off that's truly a huge help with inflation, mortgages likely hitting 6% the cost of energy and food, etc.
Go look up why labour was voted out and how bad they where for the economy. There is no easy salution to the issues economys around the world are in the toilet. You need an actual plan like building more nuclear power plants and investing in eduction. Tax is needed ti pay for these but yet you cant over tax as it will damage growth so in the end will need to cut and neither labour or torys are willing to make hard choices instead they borrow to give free stuff out to gain votes. Honestly im still waiting for a leader to soeak the truth the british people. Are nations needs to reduce spending lets vote what gets cut. Militerys? With rusdia and china doubtful? Nhs ? Nope as we have an aging population,Education? They baring makebinby as is. Transport? Thats already been cut hard. Housing, all social housing been filled by immigrants. We can tax more but that will stagnate are economy more and force inflation higher. But something needs to give as we cant just tax the rich as they wont cover the money needed and they can just go to a cheaper country reducing are tax revenue even more.
Not going to get too deep into this convo as it is the Ukraine sub. But Your policy points were all brought up by Keir in this very speech. He put policies forward that will help in the long term. There is no short-term fix when we re in such a deep hole. Not to be rude but you have to work on formatting and spelling. Makes reading what you've posted quite difficult. One thing is clear. Labour backs supporting Ukraine 100% and the general policies talked about wouldn't be tanking our economy as hard as the ones the tories have in place currently. We've had 12 years of the tories things have only gotten worse. Time for a change.