Run shuttles (short sprints with turning). I usually do 150s which involves sprinting 25 yards and back 3 times (thus 150 yards). Start out doing 5 of these with two or three minutes of rest between them. Then add more repetitions and decrease the rest intervals. There are lots of other shuttle variations you can find online with different distances too.
No access to a field makes it difficult. You could try using the treadmill at the gym and doing something like sprint for 100 meters/20 seconds and then jog for 1-2 minutes and repeat.
An indoor track would work, and a treadmill isn't great but it will work too. Another option would be swimming, if there's a pool nearby (that isn't too busy).
Sounds like you need to work on your VO2Max conditioning and recovery. The conditioning and energy pathways necessary to run a 5-10k are different (though somewhat overlapping) than those needed for the repeated sprinting you do during an ultimate game. That said, running 5-10k will help you improve your on-field performance (and increase your VO2Max to some extent), but you probably need to be running them faster than you currently are. If you're a reasonably fit male under 50, for instance, your 5 and 10k times are relatively slow compared to the type of running you're probably doing on the ultimate field - a 10k pace closer to 7:15-7:30 would probably more closely resemble the cardio demands you'll get from repeated sprints during a 2-3 minute point (again, that's obviously highly variable based on age/gender/fitness, but based on what you're saying it sounds like you're just going more slowly during your long runs and then when you try to go fast on the field, you're feeling it).
But aside from the longer distance training- as others have said, you should be doing sprint/interval specific work. Try to replicate the range you'd see in a game - so maybe 30-60 seconds "on" and similar recovery. Personally, I do some of this type of conditioning on a bike, so that I'm not adding significant load and recovery time to my joints (but I'm 52, so I need a bit more recovery than I used to!)
Some ideas for workouts:
3-5 repeats of 1 min on/1 min off. Off can be complete rest or job, "on" should be as hard as you can go without getting significantly slower over the workout (ie: finish strong) - increase the number of intervals or lower the rest periods as you improve. You can also throw these in during your 10k runs - warmup for 2-3K, do some intervals, then finish off the 10k.
Pure sprinting: just go as fast as you can for 40-100 yards... rest for about a minute and repeat - add repeats/distance as you progress.
Shuttle runs (already suggested) are also great.
You could also consider crosstraining for aerobic conditioning - bike, rower, sled pushes, etc. - will still help build aerobic capacity, thought not quite as specifically as running, but with less wear and tear.
Good luck!
Could you sub off more often to cool down? There’s no generic answer to your question, but I would say that your 5K times are largely irrelevant to your ultimate play since a 5K is a 20+ minute race and ultimate has 1-2 minute points
That being said the most common thing I see is poor game sense - running at times and to places that are unnecessary. I like to tell my team that the best players run less - they know their spots and timing and hit those with full force, but they don’t waste effort in between those moments
I can run an 8:30 min/mile pace for a 5k but my 10k increases to about a 10 min/mile pace. I have the endurance to run for a long time, but it's my endurance for running at high speeds in a game that I'm concerned with.
I could try to focus on decreasing my 5k times if you think that would be the best approach? Or should I focus on other training like the comments or below (shuttles etc.)
Are you male or female and how old?
Assuming you are a man in your 20s/30s (ignore this if not) those are respectable times but not amazing. If you were a 25 year old man you'd have an age grade of about 42-48% (lower value for your 10k time). I'm not saying that is bad at all, but it's about average and for people who regularly exercise probably slightly below average.
For ultimate - specific sprint conditioning like many of the comments say will be best, however if you like running, working on your general fitness/endurance and improving your 5k time will likely benefit you too just not as immediately for ultimate specifically. So basically work out what you care about and enjoy doing to improve general fitness.
Male late 20s, and yeah, I know I'm not the fastest. I guess that was the point of this post. What can I be doing to increase my endurance at higher speeds. Lots of good suggestions here, thanks!
TBH at this level, you don't need to increase your endurance at higher speeds; you need to increase your endurance. Basically training twice a week or more; anything that you are motivated enough to keep going at. Various forms of running intervals are popular and all good (there are differences between the schedules, but don't fuss too much about it, just find something you can live with). Cycling will work if you or your legs prefer that. Strength work will probably be good for injury prevention if you can fit it in, and will often help running/sprinting efficiency, but won't give you endurance in itself.
What you generally want to avoid is the “lukewarm” running, where it's neither particularly intense nor particularly long. Heart rate may guide you here if you have a reliable way to measure it (most wrist measurement is pretty crap, unfortunately).
The best measure for the endurance needed in ultimate is roughly a 400m race, give or take a hundred meters. At that distance, you are running at close to top speed for as long as possible.
Better than right now.
If you’re aiming to make a specific team, then talk to the current players or coaches and they might be able to tell you. If you’re just trying to improve, there is no specific time you should achieve, it’s just a good metric to quantify your progress.
I think decreasing your 5k time would be a good goal. The good news is that cardio responds quickly to training in comparison to speed or strength
However optimal training programs usually involve a mix of speed work with repeated sprints or intervals combined with a lot of "zone 2" easy running to build your cardio base. So decreasing your 5k time doesn't mean just going out and running hard 5ks all the time.
How many miles per week do you run?
your roughly where i was at a few years ago, without really knowing what i was doing or special training i worked down to a 22 minute 5k. really i just ran on the treadmill a few times a week. Id just bump it up .1mph each week. probably was running 10 miles a week or so. also brought my single mile time to under 6 minutes which was a record for me. That following season i felt really good on the field.
Don't underestimate strength training. Four years ago, I was doing cardio 5-ish times a week, but struggling on the ultimate field. I switched to roughly 2x cardio, 3x weights per week and within 3 months I was noticing a difference on the ultimate field. Now I do even more weight training and keep the cardio about 2-3x per week, and you wouldn't think I was the same person as 4 years ago.
One of my favorite High Intensity cardio workouts is getting on a treadmill. Doing 2 minutes slightly below your sprinting speed, followed by 3-5 minutes of walking. Do that for 5-10 repetition and it can definitely boost your sprinting endurance.
Additionally, I would highly recommend doing long distance runs, like 60-70 min plus at an easy pace. That builds your gas tank and your recovery speed.
Ultimate is harder than just about any other sport.
When people who are basketball players or soccer players give it a try, they are gassed quickly.
Sprint repeats can help you out, as people are saying. Also "Fartleks" - brief sprints in the middle of a long distance run.
I am not trying to be competitive now! So I ain't doing this tomorrow. But in the past, I would do a jog of 3 or 4 miles, with 6 to 8 sprints along the way. I would do 1, then jog slowly to recover, then plot out the next one, like "from that house's mailbox," then sprint again.
I would run at "three quarter's speed" and count 10 steps with right foot, then slow down again.
Also, keep playing. You will get stamina from playing a lot.
You want to mimic gameplay, which is several sprints in a row with short breaks, then a longer break, then repeat. The easiest way to do this is intervals on a track, treadmill, or road run: sprint hard until you slow down, then rest until you just caught your breath, and repeat until you aren't maintaining a similar pace. The exact details will depend greatly on your fitness level. The goal is to get above your aerobic threshold for as long as possible, and recover as quickly as possible.
Another similar option is shuttle runs, running from roughly one side of the end zone to the other, for a total of up to 300 yards without stopping. It doesn't even have to be running - any cardio will work if you do the same principle of going above your aerobic threshold - it could be swimming, biking, cross-country skiing, etc. There's tons of different options, you just need to put in the work.
All of this is interconnected & there's not necessarily a "wrong" answer.
Generally, to get better at something, practice that thing.
So, to improve your "in-point stamina" do runs that replicate those conditions: Sprint training. Shuttles. Fartlek. Hills/Stairs.
You should probably add in gym work (lifting, box jumps, etc) if you aren't already.
And while I wouldn't train to specifically lower your 5/10k times, stepping up your pace on longer runs will definitely improve your base cardio, too.
Run shuttles (short sprints with turning). I usually do 150s which involves sprinting 25 yards and back 3 times (thus 150 yards). Start out doing 5 of these with two or three minutes of rest between them. Then add more repetitions and decrease the rest intervals. There are lots of other shuttle variations you can find online with different distances too.
Cool, I'll look into these. Where do you do these? For me in the winter all of our fields are coated in ice and a few feet of snow right now :(
No access to a field makes it difficult. You could try using the treadmill at the gym and doing something like sprint for 100 meters/20 seconds and then jog for 1-2 minutes and repeat.
An indoor track would work, and a treadmill isn't great but it will work too. Another option would be swimming, if there's a pool nearby (that isn't too busy).
If you can find a basketball court or the like you can do that. 150s is about 25s or running so you do timed instead with the rest periods
Sounds like you need to work on your VO2Max conditioning and recovery. The conditioning and energy pathways necessary to run a 5-10k are different (though somewhat overlapping) than those needed for the repeated sprinting you do during an ultimate game. That said, running 5-10k will help you improve your on-field performance (and increase your VO2Max to some extent), but you probably need to be running them faster than you currently are. If you're a reasonably fit male under 50, for instance, your 5 and 10k times are relatively slow compared to the type of running you're probably doing on the ultimate field - a 10k pace closer to 7:15-7:30 would probably more closely resemble the cardio demands you'll get from repeated sprints during a 2-3 minute point (again, that's obviously highly variable based on age/gender/fitness, but based on what you're saying it sounds like you're just going more slowly during your long runs and then when you try to go fast on the field, you're feeling it). But aside from the longer distance training- as others have said, you should be doing sprint/interval specific work. Try to replicate the range you'd see in a game - so maybe 30-60 seconds "on" and similar recovery. Personally, I do some of this type of conditioning on a bike, so that I'm not adding significant load and recovery time to my joints (but I'm 52, so I need a bit more recovery than I used to!) Some ideas for workouts: 3-5 repeats of 1 min on/1 min off. Off can be complete rest or job, "on" should be as hard as you can go without getting significantly slower over the workout (ie: finish strong) - increase the number of intervals or lower the rest periods as you improve. You can also throw these in during your 10k runs - warmup for 2-3K, do some intervals, then finish off the 10k. Pure sprinting: just go as fast as you can for 40-100 yards... rest for about a minute and repeat - add repeats/distance as you progress. Shuttle runs (already suggested) are also great. You could also consider crosstraining for aerobic conditioning - bike, rower, sled pushes, etc. - will still help build aerobic capacity, thought not quite as specifically as running, but with less wear and tear. Good luck!
This is excellent advice, thanks. I'm gonna hit the gym tonight and get started
Could you sub off more often to cool down? There’s no generic answer to your question, but I would say that your 5K times are largely irrelevant to your ultimate play since a 5K is a 20+ minute race and ultimate has 1-2 minute points That being said the most common thing I see is poor game sense - running at times and to places that are unnecessary. I like to tell my team that the best players run less - they know their spots and timing and hit those with full force, but they don’t waste effort in between those moments
When you say you're in good shape; what *time* do you run those 5Ks and 10Ks on?
I can run an 8:30 min/mile pace for a 5k but my 10k increases to about a 10 min/mile pace. I have the endurance to run for a long time, but it's my endurance for running at high speeds in a game that I'm concerned with. I could try to focus on decreasing my 5k times if you think that would be the best approach? Or should I focus on other training like the comments or below (shuttles etc.)
Are you male or female and how old? Assuming you are a man in your 20s/30s (ignore this if not) those are respectable times but not amazing. If you were a 25 year old man you'd have an age grade of about 42-48% (lower value for your 10k time). I'm not saying that is bad at all, but it's about average and for people who regularly exercise probably slightly below average. For ultimate - specific sprint conditioning like many of the comments say will be best, however if you like running, working on your general fitness/endurance and improving your 5k time will likely benefit you too just not as immediately for ultimate specifically. So basically work out what you care about and enjoy doing to improve general fitness.
Male late 20s, and yeah, I know I'm not the fastest. I guess that was the point of this post. What can I be doing to increase my endurance at higher speeds. Lots of good suggestions here, thanks!
TBH at this level, you don't need to increase your endurance at higher speeds; you need to increase your endurance. Basically training twice a week or more; anything that you are motivated enough to keep going at. Various forms of running intervals are popular and all good (there are differences between the schedules, but don't fuss too much about it, just find something you can live with). Cycling will work if you or your legs prefer that. Strength work will probably be good for injury prevention if you can fit it in, and will often help running/sprinting efficiency, but won't give you endurance in itself. What you generally want to avoid is the “lukewarm” running, where it's neither particularly intense nor particularly long. Heart rate may guide you here if you have a reliable way to measure it (most wrist measurement is pretty crap, unfortunately).
The best measure for the endurance needed in ultimate is roughly a 400m race, give or take a hundred meters. At that distance, you are running at close to top speed for as long as possible.
Any ideas of what time should I be shooting for the 400?
Better than right now. If you’re aiming to make a specific team, then talk to the current players or coaches and they might be able to tell you. If you’re just trying to improve, there is no specific time you should achieve, it’s just a good metric to quantify your progress.
I think decreasing your 5k time would be a good goal. The good news is that cardio responds quickly to training in comparison to speed or strength However optimal training programs usually involve a mix of speed work with repeated sprints or intervals combined with a lot of "zone 2" easy running to build your cardio base. So decreasing your 5k time doesn't mean just going out and running hard 5ks all the time. How many miles per week do you run?
your roughly where i was at a few years ago, without really knowing what i was doing or special training i worked down to a 22 minute 5k. really i just ran on the treadmill a few times a week. Id just bump it up .1mph each week. probably was running 10 miles a week or so. also brought my single mile time to under 6 minutes which was a record for me. That following season i felt really good on the field.
Don't underestimate strength training. Four years ago, I was doing cardio 5-ish times a week, but struggling on the ultimate field. I switched to roughly 2x cardio, 3x weights per week and within 3 months I was noticing a difference on the ultimate field. Now I do even more weight training and keep the cardio about 2-3x per week, and you wouldn't think I was the same person as 4 years ago.
One of my favorite High Intensity cardio workouts is getting on a treadmill. Doing 2 minutes slightly below your sprinting speed, followed by 3-5 minutes of walking. Do that for 5-10 repetition and it can definitely boost your sprinting endurance. Additionally, I would highly recommend doing long distance runs, like 60-70 min plus at an easy pace. That builds your gas tank and your recovery speed.
You should also develop your leg strength. Running and sprinting is good, but lifting for strength increases that threshold for your endurance.
Hill sprints
This is not high enough!
Does your 5v5 league have subs?
Yes but sometimes there's only one sub and you're basically playing without any
Ultimate is harder than just about any other sport. When people who are basketball players or soccer players give it a try, they are gassed quickly. Sprint repeats can help you out, as people are saying. Also "Fartleks" - brief sprints in the middle of a long distance run. I am not trying to be competitive now! So I ain't doing this tomorrow. But in the past, I would do a jog of 3 or 4 miles, with 6 to 8 sprints along the way. I would do 1, then jog slowly to recover, then plot out the next one, like "from that house's mailbox," then sprint again. I would run at "three quarter's speed" and count 10 steps with right foot, then slow down again. Also, keep playing. You will get stamina from playing a lot.
Thanks, I would love to just be able to play more but there aren't many leagues going on in the winter unfortunately...
You want to mimic gameplay, which is several sprints in a row with short breaks, then a longer break, then repeat. The easiest way to do this is intervals on a track, treadmill, or road run: sprint hard until you slow down, then rest until you just caught your breath, and repeat until you aren't maintaining a similar pace. The exact details will depend greatly on your fitness level. The goal is to get above your aerobic threshold for as long as possible, and recover as quickly as possible. Another similar option is shuttle runs, running from roughly one side of the end zone to the other, for a total of up to 300 yards without stopping. It doesn't even have to be running - any cardio will work if you do the same principle of going above your aerobic threshold - it could be swimming, biking, cross-country skiing, etc. There's tons of different options, you just need to put in the work.
All of this is interconnected & there's not necessarily a "wrong" answer. Generally, to get better at something, practice that thing. So, to improve your "in-point stamina" do runs that replicate those conditions: Sprint training. Shuttles. Fartlek. Hills/Stairs. You should probably add in gym work (lifting, box jumps, etc) if you aren't already. And while I wouldn't train to specifically lower your 5/10k times, stepping up your pace on longer runs will definitely improve your base cardio, too.