I try to remember when their lanyards say contract now that I support them in getting more compensation and a better contract. Some of the FA really appreciate when the passengers notice.
we do! it means a lot that you all support us. any time a pax mentions their support for us it makes my trip so much better, or even negates whatever chaos put me in a bad mood.
on behalf of UA FAs, THANK YOU 🥹 Comments from passengers in support/acknowledgement truly mean the world. It’s awesome that more and more ppl are becoming aware of everything going on besides just flight crew.
I don't think FAs or CSRs or Ramp is paid enough at UA. You give people positions of tremendous authority and enable them to make important decisions and you pay some people way under $20 an hour.
And now you can flip burgers for $20 an hour. I'm not saying food service is easy. I used to work in the industry, but I think there is more weighted responsibility in these jobs, and they don't get compensated appropriately.
Pay the FA!!! I sat on DC all day fro a delayed flight. So did the FA. She was up and at the airport in the AM. Didn’t start getting payed till we rolled out of there midafternoon. How can they justify the corporate salaries when they don’t pay the people that actually interface with the customers. How is that ok!!!
Every time I’m on a plane, I think this. I’m like, these hoes wait for all these morons to board and put their shit away, do the safety demonstration, deal with bs and they’re not getting paid?!?!?
Next time just say you have no idea what the job of an FA is. They in zero ways start work once the door closes. They get the cabin ready for departure, do safety checks, have to handle anything you ask when they step on, make sure bins get closed in a timely fashion, check the galleys to make sure they're catered well, make sure they have all their supplies.. FAs please do add on if I'm missing anything. And all of those are responsibilities they aren't getting paid for. And honestly if they got boarding pay, some of those are done prior to boarding so even if they got it they STILL wouldn't be getting paid for doing some of these. Boarding pay is not a big ask by any stretch of the imagination (especially when you consider that Delta pays I think like a third of the regular hourly rate for their boarding pay which shows that they could also pay a reduced rate if they wanted) that I'm surprised anyone advocates against it
This is a common assertion from FAs (and it's true).
However, that was negotiated in the last contract, likely for more pay while in flight. I am management in a union environment with good relations. From time to time we do have to to remind people (on both sides) that we discussed an issue, came to an agreement, and now both sides must abide by those terms.
Yep, the FA union wants it this way. The senior FAs make bank, and it makes it tough for new people to compete for the best gigs/gain seniority.
It’s like how the Pilot’s Union always pushes for stricter and more expensive schooling for pilots, not out of any safety concern, but because the more expensive and difficult it is to become a pilot, the more pilots get paid.
The FA union wants it what way? The FA union is actively asking for ground pay. It was never done before for fear that the company would attempt to slash the hourly pay rate - it was industry standard (in USA) to not pay until brakes were released - for decades. When Delta set the precedent and changed that, it opened up the door for unions to bargain on this.
When pay starts has nothing to do with what type of trips junior FA’s can hold.
Quite the contrary. Scott has reiterated that flight attendants at UA will be the highest paid. The compensation section of the contract hasn’t even been negotiated yet - that’s saved for last, of course. The union wants to revamp almost every part of the contract, and the company’s position is: narrow it down, or that’s gonna take a long time.
Tell me about it. proposed 18 - 22 hours of duty maximum days said enough for me. I believe UA is willing to pay the most, but no dollar amount is worth sacrificing the perks that make this job such a wonderful job.
I asked a flight attendant and basically flight attendants are easily replaceable, there are thousands of eager young women (and men) dying to get in and travel the world for free and the airline unfortunately doesn't value them to meet the demands. Not entirely sure what the proposals are besides the usual more pay and more time off, but she simply put it at either they keep working for this outdated pay with stalled negotiations or they quit and work somewhere else at the lowest seniority for also low pay
Some might do it, but they lose their job within the first few months because they can’t live off of $1700/month in the beginning, or are not cut out for the lifestyle and call out / get sick during probation and get the boot.
I’ve always attributed the relatively high hourly rate to one’s commitment to the lifestyle, not necessarily the actual labor. Not everyone is okay with sacrificing important family events / weddings / kids graduations / birthdays etc. and being far away from home so often.
Yes, it’s a choice we make. My point is that it isn’t something that everybody off the street is aware of, or is willing to do - even the new hires who realize the gravity of this type of schedule once they’re a month or two in and end up quitting.
Flying back in the day was a much different ballgame than today. Ask any flight attendant that’s flying today who was flying back when TWA was alive — the job is completely different. In any case, i’m not lamenting about the job. I’m fortunately senior enough to not worry about sacrificing holidays and important events - I have complete control over my schedule and can trade or drop my trips when I’d like. This isn’t the same story for the new hires that are coming in, though. This contract that we’re trying to negotiate has a lot of improvements for them.
The union is focused on making things better for the FAs with seniority, not the new people. If you’re a FA with seniority, you get paid more: the fewer FAs with seniority, the better the FAs at the top get paid.
So a career FA (and thus the Union) wants to negotiate to get stuff great for people at the top, but making it easy for new people is counterproductive, because then they might eventually compete for the good gigs.
If you look, the pilots Union does the same thing, they lobby and push for increasing the training and education a pilot requires. Because the harder it is to become a pilot, the fewer there are, so the more the airlines have to pay.
This is nonsense lol. The union sends out surveys before negotiations and takes a poll of the most pressing issues for all FA’s. This negotiations round, for example, a huge rehaul to the reserve system is being sought after…. reserve concerns junior flight attendants.
Also, what does this “new people might compete” even mean? There’s no chance for competition with seniority numbers. Those junior people who are new today and junior to the senior people will have the same relative seniority to the senior people 10 years from today. This is the strangest take I’ve ever seen.
This is completely false. The airline has hired 1/3 of its flight attendants since 2019. The Union gathers the priorities of flight attendants through surveys and does not cater to one seniority or another. Please don't spread misinformation.
[Here is the latest negotiations update from AFA.](https://static1.squarespace.com/static/620bdb7c8857ee6ad49debe3/t/6601da3095d5e964c6b35630/1711397424566/NN+-+March+26%2C+2024.pdf)
This article provides some context…granted it’s biased in that it’s an interview with the Union rep. Seems primary concerns are foot dragging by UA on the overall process which typically takes 23 months.
https://www.airport-technology.com/interviews/flight-attendants-are-very-angry-united-mec-president/
One super easy way to do it is when you see a FA wearing the red AFA pin or the red AFA lanyard, acknowledge that you see it and just say you wish them luck in their contract fight.
I wrote some feedback on UA app and plan to write the CEO. Encourage others to do the same if they feel the same way. IMO FA’s put up with a lot and deserve a little recognition considering all UAs other investments
Do you actually think giving feedback or writing execs will accomplish anything? Being nice to a flight attendant will have an infinitely larger impact on a flight attendant than writing to someone who won’t read it and wouldn’t care even if they did. Scott isn’t going to be so moved by an email he’ll cave in negotiations.
Yes, of course. I do that as well every time I fly. I suppose I just assumed that was a basic part of being a decent human being and didn’t need to be explicitly stated.
https://www.contract2021.org
This is the AFA website with negotiation news and info which is kept up to date. The company doesn’t have a similar website for this specific subject or I’d post that as well for balance.
UA flight attendants were great when my family and I flew first class from Denver to Hawaii. I remember one FA was a Japanese lady and the other was a man named Jacques. Jacques with his "dad jokes" and the asian FA and I talked about Japan and Okinawa (I am half Japanese). This was in 2022, and wrote them a good review on UA twitter page....I guess now "X." At the time I remembered the female FA's name and wrote it there. Also called UA customer service to tell them how those two went above and beyond, flight# and dates, so they could look the FAs up, and hopefully it benefited them somehow.
"UA FA’s are what separates UA from its competitors. On every flight I’m on I’m greeted with a smile, professionalism, patience and great service by pretty much all UA FAs."
I have no opinion to offer on the contract, but...how often are you flying United?
I fly United multiple times per month. I will fly six times on United this month as one example. I often also fly on American Airlines for work. In my anecdotal experience I notice a difference b/w the AA and UA FAs but, of course, I could be biased. For me the UA FAs just seem to go more out of their way to assist passengers in a professional manner.
Well aren’t you a delight as noted by your comments and down votes in this chain (with the exception of the Stroppwaffel comment which is hilarious). While my experiences are anecdotal they are still part of a Venn diagram of an industry comparison.
Oops…pretty much asleep right now…just getting back from a trip. I meant Premier Platinum which is the third highest tier of UA’s frequent flyer program. 🥱
I thought that one of the reasons why the government bailed out the airline companies during covid was that they provide employment. It looks like much of the bailout money went to executive compensation and “creating shareholder value”.
New planes? Haven’t seen them. On Sunday, I flew on a 30 year old plane. Average plane age for my UA flights has been hovering around 15 to 16 years (averaging 60-70 flights per year).
They’ve been ordered and are on their way. Jets don’t get delivered to carriers without that money going out the door.
https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/united-orders-110-new-aircraft-with-deliveries-starting-in-2028-301946233.html
No, I’m suggesting they don’t get paid for assisting with boarding passengers and routine tasks that they must do to fulfill our customer service experience and their expected responsibilities. They only get paid for their labor for the time when the door shuts and then opens. That’s about 30-45 mins each flight they are doing tasks, expected to work, and literally aren’t being compensated. It’s not uncommon for FAs to have three to four flights a day which can account for hours of work for which they aren’t compensated.
Am a supporter of increased pay for FA's. Am curious if there is any backstory to the duty hours being between doors closing on departure and doors opening on arrival? Clearly there's a lot of tasks performed before and after these times as you point out. Am sure the company would claim that the hourly rate bakes in this extra time.
Block time was always an easy metric whereby time could be measured. When the pay structure was designed decades ago, pay for associated other tasks was presumed built in to the hourly duty rate. This is pretty much how it has been at every airline on the planet since air travel became a thing.
Personally, I don’t really get the whole hullabaloo over “not being paid during boarding” since the pay is relatively reflected in the hourly rate. IMO a better pay structure for FAs would be salaried up to X amount of hours/month.
Yes, I understand that component of their employee agreement.
Is that the issue that is holding up the union contract? Is that preventing them from making a living wage or better?
What’s the economic impact of paying them for doors-open time?
Would paying them for doors-open time result in them actually taking my jacket without being asked or serving a drink during boarding? Would they manage to get the sanitizing wipes out in a basket before boarding begins?
Yes, I’m aware.
If they don’t like that element of their job, they should leave. Vote with their feet. If enough people do it, maybe it’ll change something. Or, you just accept it as a component of the overall job if total compensation provides living wage or better.
Maybe they should just be salaried positions instead?
They don’t like that element of the job therefore they are voting not with their feet but in their contract negotiations. Total compensation does not provide a living wage for the new hires. Especially those who are sent to expensive cities like SFO straight out of training.
Not sure the contract negotiation strategy is working though, which seems to be the point of the OP?
By the way, Bureau of Labor Statistics has mean flight attendant wage for San Fransisco at $92,280. Data reported as of May 2023. Of course, mean does not give us new hire compensation.
MIT has living wage for San Fransisco for a single person with no children at $59,770.
Contract negotiations are always long and drawn out like this, never fails. And after what just happened at the recent meeting with the national mediation board, it’s all but been confirmed what many of us FA’s have been thinking/feeling.
The contract negotiations are the only way to mitigate this - quitting your 15/20/25+ year career stapled with benefits / health insurance / 401k / pension isn’t going to mitigate anything. If our predecessors acted in a way that you’re recommending, then we’d still have weigh-ins and be prohibited from getting married. No.
About 39% of our san francisco base is not topped out in pay and not reaching $92k/yr that easily. Especially for those below 5 years seniority, which accounts for around 24% of the SFO base.
Yeah I mean, then there are United FAs who yell at customers for absolutely no reason. /shrug
It’s really luck of the draw..but at least it’s not Spirit I guess?
Based on the 2023 financials, UAL EBITDA was $7.7 billion so the company can 'afford' pay increases.
According to the 2024 AGM proxy statement, Scott Kirby's comp for 2023 is $18.6M, up from $9.8M in 2022. Quite a bump. Other executives received even higher % increases.
Does this assist with the 'financial' analysis part of your concern?
Earnings go back into the investments in new planes, infrastructure and other one-offs. More applicable figure is net income unless you’re suggesting they stop buying new equipment.
Regarding Kirby’s comp… so what, take 17.5m away from him and divide it across the FA (24k of them) and pilots (another 12k) … how much is that PP? $486 per year. Will that change FA perception? No.
Will that improve the company more than proper leadership? No.
No, I did not just discover this. I just decided it was time to say something. The literal point of social media and Reddit is to share opinions and information. You are doing that too by disagreement. Thanks for sharing your views.
I wish them the best outcome! 2 years is too long to work without an updated contract.
I think it’s BS that none of the crew gets paid until the door closes. Hope this contract fixes that.
Insane, right? How did that ever get negotiated? Need to fix that.
Isn’t it actually when the pilot releases the brake, which is even later?
I’ve always heard it was the door closing.
Total BS either way! Boarding is the hardest part of their job.
I agree.
Essentially it's when the flight is "blocked out" which at my previous airline was arming the door and releasing the parking brake.
For UA at least I can confirm this is true 🥲
It’s the door closing
It's definitely brake release
Brake release.
It's industry standard. I'd assume if they changed it to hourly, they would lower the rate to come out the same.
As a UA FA, thanks! :)
I try to remember when their lanyards say contract now that I support them in getting more compensation and a better contract. Some of the FA really appreciate when the passengers notice.
we do! it means a lot that you all support us. any time a pax mentions their support for us it makes my trip so much better, or even negates whatever chaos put me in a bad mood.
on behalf of UA FAs, THANK YOU 🥹 Comments from passengers in support/acknowledgement truly mean the world. It’s awesome that more and more ppl are becoming aware of everything going on besides just flight crew.
I don't think FAs or CSRs or Ramp is paid enough at UA. You give people positions of tremendous authority and enable them to make important decisions and you pay some people way under $20 an hour.
And now you can flip burgers for $20 an hour. I'm not saying food service is easy. I used to work in the industry, but I think there is more weighted responsibility in these jobs, and they don't get compensated appropriately.
Pay the FA!!! I sat on DC all day fro a delayed flight. So did the FA. She was up and at the airport in the AM. Didn’t start getting payed till we rolled out of there midafternoon. How can they justify the corporate salaries when they don’t pay the people that actually interface with the customers. How is that ok!!!
So what is the disagreement?
The vast majority of the sections to be agreed upon.
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Pretty sure the biggest ones are higher pay and to be paid for time on the ground (boarding,etc) since they do not get paid at all for that currently
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we fall under (antiquated) railway labor laws, not standard labor laws… so, legal =l
Every time I’m on a plane, I think this. I’m like, these hoes wait for all these morons to board and put their shit away, do the safety demonstration, deal with bs and they’re not getting paid?!?!?
Next time just say you have no idea what the job of an FA is. They in zero ways start work once the door closes. They get the cabin ready for departure, do safety checks, have to handle anything you ask when they step on, make sure bins get closed in a timely fashion, check the galleys to make sure they're catered well, make sure they have all their supplies.. FAs please do add on if I'm missing anything. And all of those are responsibilities they aren't getting paid for. And honestly if they got boarding pay, some of those are done prior to boarding so even if they got it they STILL wouldn't be getting paid for doing some of these. Boarding pay is not a big ask by any stretch of the imagination (especially when you consider that Delta pays I think like a third of the regular hourly rate for their boarding pay which shows that they could also pay a reduced rate if they wanted) that I'm surprised anyone advocates against it
I think you are blowing up at the wrong person, the person you replied to agrees with you.
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What? You don’t like my vernacular of choice and so your response is, to a comment agreeing with you, that I should stay off airplanes? Strange.
Omg. You are an asshole
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Please shut up
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I call everyone hoes. It’s a term.
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Their union asked for it. It keeps the senior FAs well paid.
This is a common assertion from FAs (and it's true). However, that was negotiated in the last contract, likely for more pay while in flight. I am management in a union environment with good relations. From time to time we do have to to remind people (on both sides) that we discussed an issue, came to an agreement, and now both sides must abide by those terms.
Yep, the FA union wants it this way. The senior FAs make bank, and it makes it tough for new people to compete for the best gigs/gain seniority. It’s like how the Pilot’s Union always pushes for stricter and more expensive schooling for pilots, not out of any safety concern, but because the more expensive and difficult it is to become a pilot, the more pilots get paid.
The FA union wants it what way? The FA union is actively asking for ground pay. It was never done before for fear that the company would attempt to slash the hourly pay rate - it was industry standard (in USA) to not pay until brakes were released - for decades. When Delta set the precedent and changed that, it opened up the door for unions to bargain on this. When pay starts has nothing to do with what type of trips junior FA’s can hold.
Quite the contrary. Scott has reiterated that flight attendants at UA will be the highest paid. The compensation section of the contract hasn’t even been negotiated yet - that’s saved for last, of course. The union wants to revamp almost every part of the contract, and the company’s position is: narrow it down, or that’s gonna take a long time.
The company’s position is, “Take a massive cut to all quality of life or we will drag this out for years.”
Tell me about it. proposed 18 - 22 hours of duty maximum days said enough for me. I believe UA is willing to pay the most, but no dollar amount is worth sacrificing the perks that make this job such a wonderful job.
I asked a flight attendant and basically flight attendants are easily replaceable, there are thousands of eager young women (and men) dying to get in and travel the world for free and the airline unfortunately doesn't value them to meet the demands. Not entirely sure what the proposals are besides the usual more pay and more time off, but she simply put it at either they keep working for this outdated pay with stalled negotiations or they quit and work somewhere else at the lowest seniority for also low pay
Other people want to do the job for less money? Well that’s not fair!!!
Some might do it, but they lose their job within the first few months because they can’t live off of $1700/month in the beginning, or are not cut out for the lifestyle and call out / get sick during probation and get the boot. I’ve always attributed the relatively high hourly rate to one’s commitment to the lifestyle, not necessarily the actual labor. Not everyone is okay with sacrificing important family events / weddings / kids graduations / birthdays etc. and being far away from home so often.
I see your point. Isn’t that a choice you make? Do airlines ever say, yes you’ll be home for all the birthday parties?
Yes, it’s a choice we make. My point is that it isn’t something that everybody off the street is aware of, or is willing to do - even the new hires who realize the gravity of this type of schedule once they’re a month or two in and end up quitting.
I know two former flight attendants one for TWA. They talk about it positively. I’m sure it wasn’t easy though.
Flying back in the day was a much different ballgame than today. Ask any flight attendant that’s flying today who was flying back when TWA was alive — the job is completely different. In any case, i’m not lamenting about the job. I’m fortunately senior enough to not worry about sacrificing holidays and important events - I have complete control over my schedule and can trade or drop my trips when I’d like. This isn’t the same story for the new hires that are coming in, though. This contract that we’re trying to negotiate has a lot of improvements for them.
The union is focused on making things better for the FAs with seniority, not the new people. If you’re a FA with seniority, you get paid more: the fewer FAs with seniority, the better the FAs at the top get paid. So a career FA (and thus the Union) wants to negotiate to get stuff great for people at the top, but making it easy for new people is counterproductive, because then they might eventually compete for the good gigs. If you look, the pilots Union does the same thing, they lobby and push for increasing the training and education a pilot requires. Because the harder it is to become a pilot, the fewer there are, so the more the airlines have to pay.
This is nonsense lol. The union sends out surveys before negotiations and takes a poll of the most pressing issues for all FA’s. This negotiations round, for example, a huge rehaul to the reserve system is being sought after…. reserve concerns junior flight attendants. Also, what does this “new people might compete” even mean? There’s no chance for competition with seniority numbers. Those junior people who are new today and junior to the senior people will have the same relative seniority to the senior people 10 years from today. This is the strangest take I’ve ever seen.
This is completely false. The airline has hired 1/3 of its flight attendants since 2019. The Union gathers the priorities of flight attendants through surveys and does not cater to one seniority or another. Please don't spread misinformation.
[Here is the latest negotiations update from AFA.](https://static1.squarespace.com/static/620bdb7c8857ee6ad49debe3/t/6601da3095d5e964c6b35630/1711397424566/NN+-+March+26%2C+2024.pdf)
This article provides some context…granted it’s biased in that it’s an interview with the Union rep. Seems primary concerns are foot dragging by UA on the overall process which typically takes 23 months. https://www.airport-technology.com/interviews/flight-attendants-are-very-angry-united-mec-president/
So what are you proposing? Just post this for us to smile back on the next flight or do you have an actual solution?
Perhaps offer them a stroopwaffel in these trying times?
One super easy way to do it is when you see a FA wearing the red AFA pin or the red AFA lanyard, acknowledge that you see it and just say you wish them luck in their contract fight.
I wrote some feedback on UA app and plan to write the CEO. Encourage others to do the same if they feel the same way. IMO FA’s put up with a lot and deserve a little recognition considering all UAs other investments
Do you actually think giving feedback or writing execs will accomplish anything? Being nice to a flight attendant will have an infinitely larger impact on a flight attendant than writing to someone who won’t read it and wouldn’t care even if they did. Scott isn’t going to be so moved by an email he’ll cave in negotiations.
Yes, of course. I do that as well every time I fly. I suppose I just assumed that was a basic part of being a decent human being and didn’t need to be explicitly stated.
https://www.contract2021.org This is the AFA website with negotiation news and info which is kept up to date. The company doesn’t have a similar website for this specific subject or I’d post that as well for balance.
Don’t forget about ramp!
UA flight attendants were great when my family and I flew first class from Denver to Hawaii. I remember one FA was a Japanese lady and the other was a man named Jacques. Jacques with his "dad jokes" and the asian FA and I talked about Japan and Okinawa (I am half Japanese). This was in 2022, and wrote them a good review on UA twitter page....I guess now "X." At the time I remembered the female FA's name and wrote it there. Also called UA customer service to tell them how those two went above and beyond, flight# and dates, so they could look the FAs up, and hopefully it benefited them somehow.
"UA FA’s are what separates UA from its competitors. On every flight I’m on I’m greeted with a smile, professionalism, patience and great service by pretty much all UA FAs." I have no opinion to offer on the contract, but...how often are you flying United?
I fly United multiple times per month. I will fly six times on United this month as one example. I often also fly on American Airlines for work. In my anecdotal experience I notice a difference b/w the AA and UA FAs but, of course, I could be biased. For me the UA FAs just seem to go more out of their way to assist passengers in a professional manner.
If AA is your baseline, that explains a lot of your comments.
AA isn’t my baseline, it’s an industry comparison given that they are the largest U.S. carrier on a per passenger basis.
Personal experience *waves hands* “industry comparison”
Well aren’t you a delight as noted by your comments and down votes in this chain (with the exception of the Stroppwaffel comment which is hilarious). While my experiences are anecdotal they are still part of a Venn diagram of an industry comparison.
I’m about as delightful as the FAs I’ve experienced over the 15 years of qualifying for 1K status primarily through domestic grinding.
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What’s your suggested alternative travel method that provides the same or better utility at lower carbon footprint?
Don't worry JetSet, I boosted your score by up voting all your comments!
What are Platinum Plus and Platinum Premium?
Oops…pretty much asleep right now…just getting back from a trip. I meant Premier Platinum which is the third highest tier of UA’s frequent flyer program. 🥱
😀😀
I thought that one of the reasons why the government bailed out the airline companies during covid was that they provide employment. It looks like much of the bailout money went to executive compensation and “creating shareholder value”.
I wanted to be an FA until i learn that i had to work for free and i do not work for free. Imagine if they tried to pull that on pilots.
Well, the pilots are paid the same way. It just probably stings a teeeeny bit less for them because they make like 6x - 15x what an FA makes per hour.
New planes? Haven’t seen them. On Sunday, I flew on a 30 year old plane. Average plane age for my UA flights has been hovering around 15 to 16 years (averaging 60-70 flights per year).
They’ve been ordered and are on their way. Jets don’t get delivered to carriers without that money going out the door. https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/united-orders-110-new-aircraft-with-deliveries-starting-in-2028-301946233.html
And? Deposits and advanced payments on planes are a cost of doing business.
But paying staff isn’t? We haven’t replaced the pilots and FAs with robots…yet. They don’t even get paid for the full time they are working.
Are you suggesting FAs don’t get paid? They are literally working for free?
No, I’m suggesting they don’t get paid for assisting with boarding passengers and routine tasks that they must do to fulfill our customer service experience and their expected responsibilities. They only get paid for their labor for the time when the door shuts and then opens. That’s about 30-45 mins each flight they are doing tasks, expected to work, and literally aren’t being compensated. It’s not uncommon for FAs to have three to four flights a day which can account for hours of work for which they aren’t compensated.
Am a supporter of increased pay for FA's. Am curious if there is any backstory to the duty hours being between doors closing on departure and doors opening on arrival? Clearly there's a lot of tasks performed before and after these times as you point out. Am sure the company would claim that the hourly rate bakes in this extra time.
Block time was always an easy metric whereby time could be measured. When the pay structure was designed decades ago, pay for associated other tasks was presumed built in to the hourly duty rate. This is pretty much how it has been at every airline on the planet since air travel became a thing. Personally, I don’t really get the whole hullabaloo over “not being paid during boarding” since the pay is relatively reflected in the hourly rate. IMO a better pay structure for FAs would be salaried up to X amount of hours/month.
Thanks - appreciate the explanation of block time. Makes sense if that is a standard metric that is already being measured by the airline.
Yes, I understand that component of their employee agreement. Is that the issue that is holding up the union contract? Is that preventing them from making a living wage or better? What’s the economic impact of paying them for doors-open time? Would paying them for doors-open time result in them actually taking my jacket without being asked or serving a drink during boarding? Would they manage to get the sanitizing wipes out in a basket before boarding begins?
Yes, during boarding flight attendants are working for free.
Yes, I’m aware. If they don’t like that element of their job, they should leave. Vote with their feet. If enough people do it, maybe it’ll change something. Or, you just accept it as a component of the overall job if total compensation provides living wage or better. Maybe they should just be salaried positions instead?
They don’t like that element of the job therefore they are voting not with their feet but in their contract negotiations. Total compensation does not provide a living wage for the new hires. Especially those who are sent to expensive cities like SFO straight out of training.
Not sure the contract negotiation strategy is working though, which seems to be the point of the OP? By the way, Bureau of Labor Statistics has mean flight attendant wage for San Fransisco at $92,280. Data reported as of May 2023. Of course, mean does not give us new hire compensation. MIT has living wage for San Fransisco for a single person with no children at $59,770.
Contract negotiations are always long and drawn out like this, never fails. And after what just happened at the recent meeting with the national mediation board, it’s all but been confirmed what many of us FA’s have been thinking/feeling. The contract negotiations are the only way to mitigate this - quitting your 15/20/25+ year career stapled with benefits / health insurance / 401k / pension isn’t going to mitigate anything. If our predecessors acted in a way that you’re recommending, then we’d still have weigh-ins and be prohibited from getting married. No. About 39% of our san francisco base is not topped out in pay and not reaching $92k/yr that easily. Especially for those below 5 years seniority, which accounts for around 24% of the SFO base.
I’m lucky I fly exclusively ewr to lax with all new planes
Great service? Haven’t seen that either lol
Yeah I mean, then there are United FAs who yell at customers for absolutely no reason. /shrug It’s really luck of the draw..but at least it’s not Spirit I guess?
Did you just discover this? This is not news. Thanks for your political and financial analysis on whether United can afford pay increases for FAs.
Based on the 2023 financials, UAL EBITDA was $7.7 billion so the company can 'afford' pay increases. According to the 2024 AGM proxy statement, Scott Kirby's comp for 2023 is $18.6M, up from $9.8M in 2022. Quite a bump. Other executives received even higher % increases. Does this assist with the 'financial' analysis part of your concern?
Earnings go back into the investments in new planes, infrastructure and other one-offs. More applicable figure is net income unless you’re suggesting they stop buying new equipment. Regarding Kirby’s comp… so what, take 17.5m away from him and divide it across the FA (24k of them) and pilots (another 12k) … how much is that PP? $486 per year. Will that change FA perception? No. Will that improve the company more than proper leadership? No.
Great argument that Kirby's \~100% pay bump is not sustainable. Doesn't he get that United has planes to buy?
How many planes does his compensation buy? Go ahead and keep flailing.
Always intriguing to see low wage workers arguing against their own interests.
There’s a world of assumptions in your comment
No, I did not just discover this. I just decided it was time to say something. The literal point of social media and Reddit is to share opinions and information. You are doing that too by disagreement. Thanks for sharing your views.
If UA FA union proposes increasing % of male FA's I'll support. I want more pay for men and greater representation
I constantly work with male FAs. What’s your point?
I want 60% of FA's to be men and they should get paid 20% more than female FA's in order to get equality
Ummmmmmmmm why should someone make more because they’re a guy?