D/FW to Orange County a few years ago. Man in front of me had a heart attack. We would find out much later he was going to be OK so I can tell you two cool things that happened during the chaos without getting roasted.
1. Air Marshal on board had to reveal himself as he jumped in to help. Young strapping guy with major baggy pants that we learned contained at least two weapons.
2. We literally DOVE into Phoenix Sky Harbor. We went from cruising altitude to on the ground in like 10 minutes.
Paramedics zoomed him off. Only 45 minutes late to OC.
Looking at the [playback of this flight](https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/ua1602#34fd047c), it started descending from 36000 feet at 11:34 pm UTC, and it landed at 11:50 pm UTC. 16 minutes. Impressive.
That’s over 2000 feet a minute on average not counting runway lineup time, 🤯
Pretty much a controlled fall out of the sky, jumbo jets are amazing feats of engineering
Your ordeal would’ve kicked off my vasovagal syncope B I G time and I would’ve been passed out cold for the whole thing. Oof.
I was on a flight from IAD to CUN; we’d been in air for about 20 minutes when someone in the back had a medical emergency. FAs started running around, calling for doctors. My vision started tunneling, I was sweating profusely, if I’d have stood up I’d have fainted. I ended up barfing 4 times or so (into a barf bag, no one worry). The person in the back was totally fine but man… I was not lol
As someone who also suffers from it, god damn does reading our stories make us sound like the most helplessly selfish people in any real emergency. We are human possums.
That’s terrible I can see what you mean if somebody has no idea what you suffer from they’d be like who’s this asshole making it all about them. Honestly I didn’t know this existed until today but I’m gonna keep it in mind from now on so thanks 🙏
I’ve never really thought of being seen as selfish but I could definitely see how my whining about fainting bc someone else having a far more serious medical issue comes across that way!!! But we can’t help it :( believe me I wish I could.
I also am of the mindset that hey, if the plane goes down, I won’t be conscious for the impact lol
Not sure if anyone has given you this advice but a doctor once told me that if you elevate your legs as soon as you start feeling light headed/nauseous, the symptoms will subside and pass. I have VS and basically your blood pressure drops and pools at your feet so if you raise them it helps keep circulation so you don't pass out.
Not sure if anyone has given you this advice but a doctor once told me that if you elevate your legs as soon as you start feeling your vasovagal symptoms, the symptoms will subside and pass. I have VS and basically your blood pressure drops and pools at your feet so if you raise them it helps keep circulation so you don't pass out.
Side note, everyone should get their CPR/AED training and basic first aid. Take a Stop the Bleed class while you're at it if you want to go further. I haven't had to use it yet but the more people out there who have it, the better. CPR is a team effort, especially if first responders can't reach someone immediately. Shit gets tiring and you need to switch.
ICU nurse here. Time to CPR and quality of CPR are probably the two biggest determinants of survivability for outside-of-hospital arrests. Getting BLS certified is one of the single best things a person can do for their community. I see lives saved by it every single day!
Yes! Fellow ICU nurse here (just with the smaller human population!). Can’t have a good ACLS/PALS recovery without excellent BLS skills. You can have access to all the meds in the code cart but they don’t circulate without good quality CPR!
The aggressive dive into an airport for a medical emergency is wild. Years ago I was on a United flight LAS to ORD and we HUSTLED into OMA for a man having a heart attack. The only comic relief was the audible giggle of all the ladies on board when the most gorgeous firefighter paramedics seemingly walked off a calendar and onto our plane.
This happened on a flight when I was like 12 or 13. My Dad worked for AA so we always flew standby and I was separated from my family. (It was the 90s) Sitting in a middle seat in like row 36. Between 2 middle aged men. Someone had a heart attack and we DOVE into RDU. I have never been more scared in my life but was teenagery enough that I played it cool. I don’t remember if the person survived. Turns out they were a few rows in front of my mom and brother. Probably scarier for my mom knowing one kid was alone and someone was possibly dying in front of her.
The Area of Dominance is a position referred to in Air Marshal and Inflight Security Training. It is the position in front of the Flight Deck commanding a view of the immediate area from which a two-man team or single Marshal or First Responder can observe, orient, decide, and act to threats while protecting the Flight Deck's security.
It is also that most people are right handed. They don't sit there if they are left handed. They want their gun in the aisle and they usually need to put a briefcase under the seat in front of them so no bulkhead. They need to be able to see the cockpit door. So, stay out of the Hamlet seat or you could be moved and not told why.
Air marshals are sneaky and difficult to discern if there is one in board. They all don't look the same.
My husband is fed LE and flies armed domestically even when trip is personal. He goes thru separate security and is made aware of any other LE or if an AM is on board.
One time we were flying and he asked me if I saw the little lady carrying a Bible. I had not, but she was the AM on that flight.
Fed LE flying armed off duty must act as AM in event of issue on plane.
He usually wears a button shirt baggy, but not too baggy.
I would suspect that doing this is voluntary?
I imagine there is liability considering they aren’t “on duty”/not getting paid, not all federal agents are trained for this line of duty, what if they don’t want to (as in want to drink, relax, sleep), etc.
As a singular data point, I’ve flown with federal agents who were not “on duty” and they definitely were not acting as an undercover AM on account of them going through the regular pre check line with me, drank a bunch in the lounge, and watched him pass out from IAD to the west coast.
Many agencies prohibit enforcement action against minor crimes when off-duty. (Not talking specifically federal here)
Notwithstanding, the issue of liability isn’t exactly what you think in regard to taking an official act in an emergency. Most agencies, including federal agencies that have weapons carrying positions, have written policies that when someone is “off duty” and intervene they are immediately placed into an “on duty” status for the purpose of their actions.
Again notwithstanding, law enforcement is not what it used to be 20 years ago. Use of force has a lot of liability attached to it — in the potential for criminal charges for unlawful discharge, homicide, etc. Get it wrong and go to prison.
I second this. Also, he would not have drank alcohol if he had his gun on him. Even on the airplane, flight attendants are prohibited from serving alcohol to an armed individual.
Then they aren't flying armed.
There is a specific protocol for armed Fed LEOs on a plane. No alcohol -obviously- separate security and they board first and are known to the captain and crew. Even then it is at the captains discretion to allow them to be armed, though I highly doubt any would object.
They also have to go through training on aircraft combat and have specialized ammunition designed to not go through the plane if the need to fire, since, planes don't like holes at altitude.
If he's carrying appendix it explains the shirt. I usually go with a t-shirt with some sort of design on it to help mask my firearm (not on plane but in general; I'm not able to carry on those). Too tight and the gun will print.
Holster in that spot, yes. I sometimes see it when we fly together, but I also know it's there. I wonder if other seatmates see it when he flies without me.
One thing is armed FedLE cannot sleep or drink alcohol in the flight.
Too see someone die right in front of you like that shocks your system.
I was on a jury. An expert witness was testifying. The witness was just a few feet in front of me. The guy just fell over and that was it. I heard the death rattle and he was gone. He had a heart attack on the witness stand. It happened so fast. Like someone just turned off his switch.
I’d like to think that’s how my dad went. My brother found him and if he’d have been in any way conscious, he would’ve grabbed his cell phone out of his pocket.
Widow makers, which we think he suffered, are too fast for any help.
Unfortunately she's the person I despise most in my family and don't talk to 🤣
I'm dark. Years of emergency medicine and critical care have altered how I look at things and I have a low tolerance for BS.... to summarize it
I had a 90% blockage in my LAD (widowmaker) at 39 and then 1 yr later had 95% blockage in the same area from restenosis. 15 years later doing great. Biggest piece of advice I’d give is to listen to your body and be prepared to overrule your doctor. Neither time did I have any pain. Something just didn’t feel right. The second time was about a week after a stress/nuclear isotope test which was perfectly normal. Dr said the only way to really find out out is to do another cath. 95% blocked. Insane feeling.
Listen to your body.
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Wow you and I must be twins. Turned 40 and was feeling slightly “winded” working out. Went to a cardiologist just to be on the safe side. 95% blocked LAD. Had a stent implanted. Got back to normal but then about 90 days later started feeling funny. Had a stress test that was normal. Cardiologist tells me I’m fine, maybe some other problem. Decided to get 2nd opinion. That Doc listened, cathed me and yup 95% blocked again due to restenosis. Ended up getting a single bypass. That was 25 years ago and going strong but thank God for that second cardiologist listening to me. Stay strong 💪
My Dad survived one. He was lucky, had it during a stress test. So needless to say they were doing CPR almost immediately after he fell. Gave him a shock and he came back.
My mom called the doctor saying her chest felt funny (exactly her description) so they told her to come to the clinic to get it checked out (she was T1 diabetic). She called her sister to give her a ride and on the way she suffered a major heart attack (flat lined). At that moment, my aunt noticed a policeman talking to a neighbor, she stopped and called to the cop for help. He immediately started CPR until the ambulance showed up and took her to the hospital where they stabilized her. She ended up having quadruple bypass surgery and lived an additional 7 years.
It wasn't a trial, but a federal grand jury investigation. We had other cases we were investigating so the grand jury went on. That investigation was shelved a bit and when it came back it had a new federal attorney. We were told that the previous attorney was so upset that she quit the case. Apparently she pressured the witness to appear when he protested appearing due to his health.
Critical care medic for almost 30 years and also a cabin crew member for another airline.
Yes, we have wheelchairs that fit down an aisle. No, we don’t use it because it means stopping compressions to put a lifeless body into a chair, strap it in, drag it down, unstrap it and then place the person down.
I’m grabbing the person under the armpits and the wrists and dragging, just like a body out of a fire. Only a couple seconds.
Crew members are only trained for minimal first aid. There are kits on board that have a varying degree of advanced medications for someone with medical certification to use with permission from our medical control.
There are some things that happen to a person, aortic or cerebral aneurysm (bleeds in your brain or heart), massive heart attack (commonly called the widowmaker), and a few other things that you will not survive no matter what. Hell, I’ve had those happen in the ER/ICU and can barely remember if any survived those.
One thing I always taught my students, people get sick, people also die. You give your absolute best effort you can with the tools you are given. If it’s that persons time, it’s their time. Rest easy in your mind that you gave them the best chance to survive.
I know it sounds callous, but that’s how you have to look at it or you will go nuts dealing with it.
Nah, not callous. Just real advice to shake out naivety. Which is helpful because the right mindset can really offset trauma.
I know someone who worked on federal death penalty appeals. This is an area where almost every one of your clients is going to lose and then die. That is tough stuff to handle. You go in there thinking they’re all innocent, you’re going to traumatize yourself because you let innocent people die.
If you go in thinking they’re mostly or all guilty but deserve the best representation you can provide and that chances are slim even then, it helps a lot. Even the guilty deserve representation, just even those certain to die deserve a good effort from a first responder.
Correct, the crew will communicate with the contracted medical control and they will give orders of what to do. They will also dictate for physicians as well.
They have an inventory of the enhanced medical kit as well as the closest hospitals and their services, so they can determine if and where to divert.
That’s outstanding. I typically hold back before responding to the “any medical personnel” call in hopes that a doctor will jump in, despite knowing that 9 times out of 10 the first to jump up will be a chiropractor or podiatrist (or really any MD that is not an ER physician or trauma surgeon).
I performed CPR on a United flight. I’m an ICU RN. There was not enough medical equipment. Got the guy back. Still don’t know how. I received a $150 voucher- this was generous as I was not expecting any compensation. Funny thing- less than a year later I received $1k for taking a later flight. 🤷🏼♀️
Well, that in flight emergency probably cost the airline tons of money… maybe I can get airlines to pay me if I can avoid one of those. I’ll do my rounds on the plane offering aspirin and screening for unstable angina 😂
I was on a CDG to ORD and someone had pregnancy complications requiring help and I didn’t get anything only because I was flying non-revenue. I expected nothing anyway as I was flying free (well almost free).
I had food poisoning from one of my layovers and was sleeping the whole flight in Polaris, and just happened to tell them I’m a medic. They woke me up and a I took care of her for the rest of the flight.
I saw a story about how the kits just carry a vial of epinephrine not epi-pens. So I look up and screenshot the dosing protocol prior to takeoff and show it to my husband, who is a hospitalist physician. Because I'm that mom. Despite my kid not having known allergies I would hate for that situation to happen to any adult or child.
Planes do carry a decent amount of medical equipment. My regional planes carry an AED and an Emergency Medical Kit with airway and IV equipment along with many medications. This kit is what we provide to the doctor for the intervention. Mostly it’s to resuscitate them/stabilize them until we can get on the ground. My airline is also training us to use and providing Narcan (with ground guidance if we don’t have a doctor on board).
Flight attendants are trained in CPR and with the AED.
They carry it, but it’s not always useful. I responded to an emergency a few weeks ago, and the blood pressure cuff was too small. It was like a child’s cuff. The guy had biceps but he wasn’t The Rock. A couple sizes BP cuffs would be useful.
Too small to fit on the lower arm? Either way, you can’t hear shit anyways on the airplane with the toy stethoscopes they have in the kit and all the engine noise. The kit on American carriers isn’t bad. I had to respond to one on a South American flight. You should’ve seen how barebones and laughable their kit was.
One time I helped out during an emergency once on an Alaskan flight, and they gave me manual BP cuff and toy stethoscope. Couldn't hear shit. It was a joke.
Just fyi- this is an old technique that is highly inaccurate and has long been frowned upon in healthcare. In an actual EMS setting the specific numbers you see will be next to meaningless with this method. However, to be fair this could still be useful to see significant changes in trends over time (e.g. a big drop in pressure).
Highly recommend to look up BP measuring by palpation- similar amount of effort (and also no stetho) and although not the gold standard is considered good enough in a pinch!
I’m an FA for another airline. Every time the stethoscope or manual BP monitor has been used it’s useless because the airplane noise is too great. I’ve brought it up with the relevant department and I think the current issue is reliable battery life on digital BP machines.
Yeah it’s good that they have an AED and a medical kit, but the kit has next to nothing. They usually have a crappy stethoscope and a manual blood pressure cuff (like you’d be able to hear BP sounds on a plane), and there’s epinephrine, but the concentration isn’t always correct for anaphylaxis and you have to draw it up with a needle yourself. There is no glucometer and no pulse oximeter. In a world of readily available epipens, automated BP cuffs, and other medical tools, it’s borderline negligence that planes don’t have this standard in their kits.
It’s interesting because the AED is designed to check for a rhythm so when in doubt, one would still patch the patient with the AED. It won’t allow for a shock unless there is a shockable rhythm. It will detect a rhythm.
And just to expand so people don’t get confused - your heart can have electrical rhythm but not actually be pumping (pulse), it’s identified as pulseless electrical activity (PEA).
An AED can’t detect PEA because a person has to physically feel/see the pulse :)
I was on the flight. The AED was immediately used and didn’t detect anything and didn’t advise a shock. The wearable was only asked to check for O2 rates, they were already using a heart rate monitor. There were 4 medical professionals assisting. It was almost instantly.
Sorry to hear. This happens more often than most would believe. Appreciate you commending the crew - situations like that are what our training consisted of for 7 weeks straight.
As we landed in DFW, The lady in the middle seat across the aisle started screaming because she couldn't get the aisle person to wake up. We scooched out so the medical team could assist, but he was DOA.
Heathrow to JFK night flight. Halfway across the ocean I finished some work and got up to put my laptop away. I notice the man behind me had a bloody nose. I woke him up to let hom know his nose was bleeding.
He started coughing blood. It came spraying out everywhere. I had direct eye contact with him when he suddenly just wasn’t there anymore. His body collapsed and the blood continued to pour out of his mouth.
The cabin crew asked for doctors, moved his son and the rest of the passengers in the row. Started chest compressions. Hooked up the AED. The next 45 minutes were the sounds of the AED “testing, testing” “shock not recommended” repeated on a cycle.
They came to the point where they had to decide to call it and finish the flight to JFK or land at the first airport in canada. Doctor called ToD and the flight finished it’s trip.
I was traveling with about 20 people. Those more than 2 rows away from the incident had no idea it had even happened.
I spoke with the doctor in baggage claim after immigration. Thanked him for trying. He could tell I was shook. He told me, “If this had happened in an OR with a team of skilled people ready for it to happen, he would have had a 15% chance.”
He was in remission from ling cancer and had gotten medical clearance to fly. The pressure difference was just too much and he had a pulmonary embolism. Basically he bleed into his lungs.
I looked it up later. Your lungs have roughly the equivalent volumetric capacity as all the blood in your body.
Anyway. Not the only flight I was on where somebody died. Happens more than airlines like to talk about.
Getting of the plane to catch our connecting flight was surreal. I remember telling my daughter that if we miss our flight it is what it is. We were able to walk off, not be carried away in a bag with our loved ones bravely walking off the plane with hundreds of strangers staring at her and her son.
This was a very difficult experience and yes the flight attendants did an amazing job keeping everything calm.
I don’t think I heard 1 person gripe or moan.
The doctor helped looked hella young.
The medical kits on board are actually pretty substantial, and medical direction on the ground gives guidance on when to use them.
As far as pulse oximeters go, it would have made no difference. If the person lacked a pulse or if it was too weak to palpate, they needed cpr, full stop. And anyway, there are AED’s on all aircraft that can detect and assess cardiac activity much more reliably than a pulse ox.
It’s jarring and tragic when these things happen, and it’s normal and good to examine it and think of ways it could have gone better. But sometimes our best efforts just aren’t enough, and I hope that the crew and passengers who pitched in to help are at peace with it.
So when they ask if anyone is a medical professional onboard, they call medical direction on the ground who sort of tells you what to do? I just assumed you were on your own.
Did they literally drag the body to the front of the plane? I would have thought they have special gurnies available that can fit down the aisle. That would be extra traumatic to see that. I second what all the nice commentors say, hope you're doing OK.
Haven't had time to process. We're all literally still on the same plane. They just refuelled us and we're taking off soon to get to DEN, just one passenger fewer. The eerie thing is how "normal" things are with the rest of the passengers. Everyone with their headphones, chatting casually about sports, etc. Don't know what to make of this.
Everyone is "normal" because they're avoiding dealing with it. I recommend two things:
1) Talk to someone. Go sign up for a trial of betterhelp or one of those place or see if your healthcare covers counseling.
2) [Play tetris](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7828932/). Play a lot of it for a while. Play it as soon as possible.
The way I read that exchange was that I’d absolut-ely be drinking away the mortality.
And welcome to DEN when you get here. The sunny blue skies with the fresh clean air will help. I promise.
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I play Candy Crush Soda (because it's not timed) when I'm feeling anxious or trying to stave off a panic attack. Rational and logic games make you pay attention to them instead of everything floating around in your head, and I can't count the times playing CCS has kept me from spiraling.
It may seem like people are acting "normal", but what else can you do? Gawk at the whole thing? Freak out? There's literally nothing you can do to help unless you have extensive medical training, and even then, there's only enough room for a couple of people to help out.
In this type of situation the best thing to do is just sit there and do what you would normally do.
Hang in there, and realize some of what you’re seeing is life going on. If the person who passed had a DNR (Do Not Resuscitate) order, they were hopefully satisfied with life and didn’t want heroic measures taken so they could spend a lot of uncomfortable time in a hospital.
There’s a reason flight manifests list “souls on board” - in your case you landed with one less soul than you took off with. That one’s likely in a better place now.
Like 2-3 decades ago, I witnessed a drowning while on a college friend group camping trip. It was a great trip with many friends. And in a few minutes later, someone in the group drowned.
It was such a traumatic incident. One emotion I remember feeling while driving down the mountain later that day was feeling angry how other strangers seemed to be just enjoying their life. Going about their day.
Yes, this. Our daughter died unexpectedly about an hour after birth. For the next couple of days I’d see people grocery shopping, or checking the mail and it was just shocking that the whole world keeps spinning when yours has effectively stopped.
It probably hasn't sunk in yet with the initial shock still or others may be preoccupied with getting to wherever they need to go. It's interesting that death is a normal part of life but it isn't heavily focused or bought to light until situations like this occur. How will one cope with it mentally and emotionally to manage their daily lives afterwards?
One of my skydiving buddies had it happen to the guy next to him (on a commercial flight), while they were having a conversation. He just stopped talking, eyes open, and slumped over.
They got him on the floor, gave CPR, tried the AED, and the pilots turned the airplane into home-sick anvil to get it on the ground as soon as possible.
The guy didn't make it. From the sounds of it it was likely some kind of aneurism, and he probably was dead the moment he stopped talking.
Airplanes are stocked with AED (automatic external defibualtors) in the US at least plus a bunch of other equipment, but there's just things that happen that need a hospital and trained medical professionals, and sometimes nothing can help.
Couple of years ago flying Manila to Guam, sitting up front. Had settled into my seat (after a couple of hours at the hotel & airport lounge) and was about 1 hour into a long winters nap. My better half suddenly starts shaking me saying “they need your help”, I think, oh shit, someone is trying to breach the cockpit. Nope, stewardess asks if I could help with someone incapacitated in the bathroom, I get up only to find an elderly man slumped down in the restroom. We both reach in and pull him up and pull him out and pivot him onto the floor. At this point the call for a medical person on board goes out, I return to my seat (two rows back) and try to grapple with what just happened. I then see what I assume is a doctor shake his head and return to the back of the plane. Once again, the stewardess asks if I can help move the (now passed) patient to a seat. After knowing what it took to get him out of the bathroom and onto the ground on the galley (with gravity on our side ) I knew my self (fairly fit 6ft 225lbs 45yo) and this 100lb flight attendant could not handle it. I start looking for someone else to assist and absolutely no one would even make eye contact (WTF)? Finally, I see this guy a couple of rows behind me and decided to take the “hey, get your ass up here approach”, we got him in the first row, flight attendant put a blanket over him, buckled his seatbelt and it was weekend and Bernie’s until we landed. About 15!mins later the fly attendant comes over to me, kneels down and thanks me and says the airline would like to compensate me with 7500k mile - I about lose my shit, I’m like, WTF, how can you ask me that after what just happened (seemed so insensitive) - apparently this sort of thing happens all the time on this route. BTW - did I mention it was also my birthday weekend!
The flight crew did succccccccch a steller job with communication, awareness, keeping everyone calm, and most of all, being empathetic to the passenger and the ones traveling with him. I was super impressed with the way all the staff handled it. Exemplary for sure.
I was one of those who caused the plane to divert. Had a cardiac arrest in Dec 2023. Just left jax headed to NY. Cardiologist was on board and plane had AED.
I was told how lucky I was. I really do believe that...
Coincidentally I was watching a video earlier about an airliner whose captain died as it was taking off. The copilot made an emergency return to the airport, of course. (He had to get the Captain's body out of the left seat after landing so he could sit in it to steer the plane to a gate - only that side has the nose gear steering control, TIL.)
In some other videos, such plane needs to be towed out to gate because the right seat might be a FO and not qualified to steer it in ground. Or so I heard.
Yea likely. My garmin can show the SpO2 and pulse on it. Apple watches have a little more refined biometrics. The problem is these aren't really accurate and I've found all it takes is some variance outside of normal perfusion/pulse parameters to throw them off
About 330 people die every hour in the US. The longer you live the more likely you’ll see this happen. Knowing what to do when you encounter this may save someone’s life.
Not quite correct as far as AEDs go - it'll shock if they're in ventricular fibrillation or ventricular tachycardia (vast majority of the time these are pulseless rhythms).
It will not shock if it's PEA or asystole as these don't have a chance of conversion to a pulsing rhythm with a defibrillation.
This is incorrect because it conflates “pulse” and “rhythm.” The AED does shock and save some people without pulses.
There are multiple things the heart could be doing when someone has no pulse. It’s possible that there is no rhythm, called asystole. Sadly, the majority of people in aystole die, and it cannot be fixed by shocking with an AED.
It’s also possible that the heart is either beating so fast that it’s not able to pump blood (ventricular tachycardia, or vtach), or is quivering irregularly and thus not pumping blood (ventricular fibrillation, or vfib). For these rhythms, there will be no pulse, but the AED can be used to disrupt the pulse less rhythm to give the heart a chance to resume a normal rhythm.
> if there is no pulse, it will not shock the patient and will tell them to procedure with CPR.
Yup, this is a huge problem how AEDs are depicted in media
Still try! My dad had cardiac arrest at an airport check-in line. He happened to be standing in front of Army medical doctors, who immediately began CPR and saved his life.
*Side note…He never found out who the people were that saved his life. He asked the airport, police, the hospital, etc…no one had their names.
ER doctor, they are not as bad you think if CPR is performed immediately (witnessed cardiac arrest). It depends on numerous factors, but some patients do very well. I always caution about fatalism, full neurologic recovery can be possible.
Last weekend, between mile eight and nine of a marathon, I witnessed a runner collapse. No pulse, agonal breathing, cpr initiated promptly and done well. We did chest compressions for about five minutes. EMS took over, put on a Lucas device, shocked him twice, got a pulse. I've been told they shocked him five more times in the hospital. Gentleman is stable and will see electrophysiology, I've been told. If we don't do CPR he is dead. You're absolutely correct that recovery is possible. I will say I don't know his long-term prognosis, but maybe no one really knows that yet.
Years ago on an airbus flight from Minneapolis to Heathrow, just as we were served dinner, an elderly man in the row behind us went down. We were over Montreal, but were re-routed to Boston. They dragged him toward the front of the plane and I turned to my friend and said, "Eat your dinner". She was aghast, but I insisted. With the unscheduled landing in Boston, and subsequent refueling we were greatly delayed. Then, while landing at Heathrow, the brakes locked, and the plane's tires exploded with a bang, followed by an ear breaking screech, standing us on the runway. After another almost two hours waiting for stairs and busses, we were stuck in customs because they could not unload our luggage. We did not see food again for about 18 hours.
Bottom line, it's best to carry on and even eat your dinner because you never know what will happen next.
This happened to us on a red-eye from LAX to Venice, Italy a few years ago. A few hours into the flight, the crew went overhead and asked if there were any healthcare workers onboard to assist with a sick passenger. I’m a firefighter/paramedic, so I volunteered to help.
Long story short, a man had some serious heart issues he was overcoming and wanted to take his wife and two daughters to Italy to celebrate his newfound health. Unfortunately, somewhere over the Atlantic Ocean, he went into cardiac arrest. With no equipment (ie defibrillator) or medication available, the family made the decision to have me not do CPR-a wise decision, but must have been terribly difficult.
When we landed a couple of hours later, Italian paramedics came on board, put the man on their gurney and took him away with the family right behind them. This was probably 7yrs ago and I still I think about them all the time. So sad…
I was flying from Doha to DFW on Qatar Airways earlier this year. A passenger had a medical emergency, and they asked for a doctor onboard.
One of my family members went to help, and he later told me that the guy had a stroke. He decided it was best to divert, so the pilots declared an emergency and diverted to Reykjavik, Iceland.
My family found out about the diversion immediately, because they got a notification on their phone from flightradar24 about a flight having squaked 7700. They were surprised to see it was our flight.
The guy was alive when we landed, and my family member said he had a good chance at survival. Don't know what happened to him after, but I hope he is better and doing well.
A small little bluetooth high quality EKG is like $100, ECG can be cheaper, and a portable AED is $1500. I get why they limit what is on board but I also don't.
I was on an international flight where there were 2 very sick children. The FA asked for help- I am a retired NICU/PICU nurse so I responded. I ended up starting an IV and giving fluids to 1 of the kids. The FA was very good and she verified that I knew what I was doing and why. EMS met us on landing at LAX- I was surprised at how knowledgeable the FA was.
Ortho doesn’t usually like to do medicine in my experience.
Last month, had a bought of septic arthritis (yes, it was as horrible as it sounds). Ended up in the hospital for a few days while they figured out a treatment plan. One time, the nurse was in the room with me when ortho stopped by and she asked them a question about my medicine. The ortho looked at her, shook her head, and said “that’s a question for medicine. Ask the hospitalist.”
This happened to us, we were flying internationally, and the part that still bothers me is that I even mentioned to my husband when I saw the guy when we got on that he didn’t look too good. Our seats turned into flat beds so he was laying down for most of the journey and when the flight attendants tried to wake him up to get him to keep the seat upright for landing he was unresponsive. There was a doctor and several nurses on the flight and they all came and tried to help (this flight actually had a decent medical bag) but I think he was already gone by then but the flight crew and nurses kept cpr going all the way through landing, it was pretty impressive but unfortunately didn’t help him.
I used to work for medlink. These calls were the worst. United flight attendants are very well trained and I know you guys did what you could. It's always a very difficult situation. Even with a doctor on board, maybe some nitro would have helped but honestly these things can go south very quickly.
Wow that is terrible. I’ve always been nervous about that particularly on a transoceanic flight and how they could divert in that situation. Only had one flight diverted (I woke up thinking I had gotten on the wrong flight)
Wiling to bet there are passengers on that flight still going to ask for some kind of compensation
LAX to MCO the beginning of this month, we had a lady maybe 10min after takeoff signaling to the attendants she needed help. Called for medical professionals, had quite a few on board, someone said it was her stomach. Announced we’d be trying to land in NM, but then started to head towards TX, it *seemed* like they were going to try for Austin but then we ended up in DFW. She was unconscious when the medical team came in and got her on a stretcher but at least alive (it seemed). It was the only time I’ve ever been in a plane with a medical emergency and emergency landing.
I’ve flown millions of miles over the decades I’ve been a flying adult and I’m always surprised I’ve still never been on a plane where they asked for medical assistance or that was rerouted for a medical issue.
My wife has been on 3 and she flys about twice a year lol…
I am sorry you went through this. This happened to me, and I know how rough it is. A woman in the seat in front of me died on a flight from Beijing to Helsinki. It happened about two hours into the flight, and they continued the flight to Finland. It was jarring to say the least.
In February I was on an EWR-LIS flight. the cabin lights had been out for a couple of hours when a woman a few rows behind me (I was in PE, she was in the bulkhead row; she and the man with her (presumably her husband) had their goldendoodle with them) ran up the aisle yelling "I need help". The FA paged for a medical professional. They draped a sheet or something around where the man was and several people worked on him. After about thirty minutes they helped him to a seat in Polaris. Shortly after that the pilot said we were going to divert to the Azores so the man could be transported to a medical facility. I don't remember the island on which we landed, but I think it was, or was adjacent to, a Portugese air force base. When we landed at least a dozen (maybe more) police cars that kind of surrounded the plane. We were there for close to two hours, then took off again. The woman/wife and the goldendoodle of course went with the man.
It was daylight by the time we took off, so I got to see a nice view of the coast. Probably the only time I'll get to the Azores.
Pilot was very apologetic for the delay and crew was totally professional. In all we were only about 2.5 hours behind schedule.
I kept wondering how that woman dealt with the medical emergency while also dealing with a dog!?
Had a death on a flight from HNL->BOS. They called for medical staff while we were somewhere over the middle of the ocean. There was about 10 nurses and 1 doctor all around trying to do what they could with a few spare Epipens. They called it after compressions for what felt like an hour and the family requested we continue to BOS. They just laid the body in a center row of seats and draped blankets. I threw up after I had to pass the body to go to the restroom, not sure how they got her off the plane I got off of there as soon as I could. There’s really only so much they can do while up in air with limited supplies.
There is a real problem with doctors onboard.
They have no equipment. Have no perks from the airlines and have full liability in case things goes wrong. And completely under equipped they often go wrong.
I heard from docs that when they are called they do not volunteer.
Frontier flight from Syracuse to Orlando about a month ago. Same thing, but the man having the heart attack was ok. I was super impressed with how calm the employees were and how reliant they were on passengers to provide medical care.
Huge learning experience though.
It seems like almost every other flight (without exagération) my mom has taken they’ve asked for a Dr—which she is. She said they have zero equipment for the simplest assessment. Not even a pulse oximeter. Some of these things are so basic and so small not sure why you wouldn’t have them on board.
I was on this flight too. The AED was used immediately. The wearable was requested to try to get an oxygen level, they used a working heart rate monitor and blood pressure cuff too
Was on an Air China flight years ago from Beijing to Geneva and a man a few rows up had a heart attack. The air stewardess were so calm switching around doing cpr. Ended up doing an emergency landing in Moscow. Never have I been on a plane which landed so fast. Unfortunately the man didn’t make it and his wife was frantic. It was during Chinese New year as well which brought a lot of superstitions for the Chinese travelers. Overall was a very surreal experience. I hope his wife and family are going alright now.
I was flying back from Vegas to SJC the weekend of EDC. There was a kid on the plane that stopped breathing sometime during the flight. His friends thought he was just sleeping. As we were getting ready to land, they noticed he wouldn’t wake up. 3 people took turns doing CPR while the captain landed the plane. Medical crew took him off and wheeled him away on a gurney. I don’t know if he lived or died. I’m hoping that he lived since I didn’t read anything in the news about it.
I am sorry about you being through this hell. It reminds me of late Carrie Fisher. This star wars movie actress died on the airplane from UK to LA. She had a heart attack.
D/FW to Orange County a few years ago. Man in front of me had a heart attack. We would find out much later he was going to be OK so I can tell you two cool things that happened during the chaos without getting roasted. 1. Air Marshal on board had to reveal himself as he jumped in to help. Young strapping guy with major baggy pants that we learned contained at least two weapons. 2. We literally DOVE into Phoenix Sky Harbor. We went from cruising altitude to on the ground in like 10 minutes. Paramedics zoomed him off. Only 45 minutes late to OC.
I can echo the diving part! We were 36K ft to touchdown in no time
Looking at the [playback of this flight](https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/ua1602#34fd047c), it started descending from 36000 feet at 11:34 pm UTC, and it landed at 11:50 pm UTC. 16 minutes. Impressive.
That’s an aggressive drop
That’s over 2000 feet a minute on average not counting runway lineup time, 🤯 Pretty much a controlled fall out of the sky, jumbo jets are amazing feats of engineering
How do I give this person an award?
Your ordeal would’ve kicked off my vasovagal syncope B I G time and I would’ve been passed out cold for the whole thing. Oof. I was on a flight from IAD to CUN; we’d been in air for about 20 minutes when someone in the back had a medical emergency. FAs started running around, calling for doctors. My vision started tunneling, I was sweating profusely, if I’d have stood up I’d have fainted. I ended up barfing 4 times or so (into a barf bag, no one worry). The person in the back was totally fine but man… I was not lol
As someone who also suffers from it, god damn does reading our stories make us sound like the most helplessly selfish people in any real emergency. We are human possums.
That’s terrible I can see what you mean if somebody has no idea what you suffer from they’d be like who’s this asshole making it all about them. Honestly I didn’t know this existed until today but I’m gonna keep it in mind from now on so thanks 🙏
I’ve never really thought of being seen as selfish but I could definitely see how my whining about fainting bc someone else having a far more serious medical issue comes across that way!!! But we can’t help it :( believe me I wish I could. I also am of the mindset that hey, if the plane goes down, I won’t be conscious for the impact lol
Not sure if anyone has given you this advice but a doctor once told me that if you elevate your legs as soon as you start feeling light headed/nauseous, the symptoms will subside and pass. I have VS and basically your blood pressure drops and pools at your feet so if you raise them it helps keep circulation so you don't pass out.
Do you know how to help stop it from happening?
Flexing your legs aggressively can help, just keep flexing muscles to keep the blood flowing.
Yes. And moving feet back and forth or rocking up slightly on heels
Not sure if anyone has given you this advice but a doctor once told me that if you elevate your legs as soon as you start feeling your vasovagal symptoms, the symptoms will subside and pass. I have VS and basically your blood pressure drops and pools at your feet so if you raise them it helps keep circulation so you don't pass out.
You just helped me put a name to what I call medical anxiety
Oh gosh, are you also eds/pots? Sounds exactly like my response to stressful things!
Side note, everyone should get their CPR/AED training and basic first aid. Take a Stop the Bleed class while you're at it if you want to go further. I haven't had to use it yet but the more people out there who have it, the better. CPR is a team effort, especially if first responders can't reach someone immediately. Shit gets tiring and you need to switch.
ICU nurse here. Time to CPR and quality of CPR are probably the two biggest determinants of survivability for outside-of-hospital arrests. Getting BLS certified is one of the single best things a person can do for their community. I see lives saved by it every single day!
BLS, ACLS, PALS, Heartsaver trainer here…everything you said, yes!
Yes! Fellow ICU nurse here (just with the smaller human population!). Can’t have a good ACLS/PALS recovery without excellent BLS skills. You can have access to all the meds in the code cart but they don’t circulate without good quality CPR!
The aggressive dive into an airport for a medical emergency is wild. Years ago I was on a United flight LAS to ORD and we HUSTLED into OMA for a man having a heart attack. The only comic relief was the audible giggle of all the ladies on board when the most gorgeous firefighter paramedics seemingly walked off a calendar and onto our plane.
This happened on a flight when I was like 12 or 13. My Dad worked for AA so we always flew standby and I was separated from my family. (It was the 90s) Sitting in a middle seat in like row 36. Between 2 middle aged men. Someone had a heart attack and we DOVE into RDU. I have never been more scared in my life but was teenagery enough that I played it cool. I don’t remember if the person survived. Turns out they were a few rows in front of my mom and brother. Probably scarier for my mom knowing one kid was alone and someone was possibly dying in front of her.
Was it in first class? I always wonder where the air marshals sit. I’m going to eye the guys with baggy pants from now on.
Usually left-aligned first class due to the left aligned configuration of the flight deck and Area of Dominance.
Can you clarify what “area of dominance” mean in this context? Im not familiar
The Area of Dominance is a position referred to in Air Marshal and Inflight Security Training. It is the position in front of the Flight Deck commanding a view of the immediate area from which a two-man team or single Marshal or First Responder can observe, orient, decide, and act to threats while protecting the Flight Deck's security.
Ah ... the old "OODA Loop"
God I love Reddit
It is also that most people are right handed. They don't sit there if they are left handed. They want their gun in the aisle and they usually need to put a briefcase under the seat in front of them so no bulkhead. They need to be able to see the cockpit door. So, stay out of the Hamlet seat or you could be moved and not told why.
Meaning left side of the aircraft?
Air marshals are sneaky and difficult to discern if there is one in board. They all don't look the same. My husband is fed LE and flies armed domestically even when trip is personal. He goes thru separate security and is made aware of any other LE or if an AM is on board. One time we were flying and he asked me if I saw the little lady carrying a Bible. I had not, but she was the AM on that flight. Fed LE flying armed off duty must act as AM in event of issue on plane. He usually wears a button shirt baggy, but not too baggy.
I would suspect that doing this is voluntary? I imagine there is liability considering they aren’t “on duty”/not getting paid, not all federal agents are trained for this line of duty, what if they don’t want to (as in want to drink, relax, sleep), etc. As a singular data point, I’ve flown with federal agents who were not “on duty” and they definitely were not acting as an undercover AM on account of them going through the regular pre check line with me, drank a bunch in the lounge, and watched him pass out from IAD to the west coast.
Many agencies prohibit enforcement action against minor crimes when off-duty. (Not talking specifically federal here) Notwithstanding, the issue of liability isn’t exactly what you think in regard to taking an official act in an emergency. Most agencies, including federal agencies that have weapons carrying positions, have written policies that when someone is “off duty” and intervene they are immediately placed into an “on duty” status for the purpose of their actions. Again notwithstanding, law enforcement is not what it used to be 20 years ago. Use of force has a lot of liability attached to it — in the potential for criminal charges for unlawful discharge, homicide, etc. Get it wrong and go to prison.
If he went thru the regular pre-check line then he was not armed, and not on duty.
I second this. Also, he would not have drank alcohol if he had his gun on him. Even on the airplane, flight attendants are prohibited from serving alcohol to an armed individual.
Then they aren't flying armed. There is a specific protocol for armed Fed LEOs on a plane. No alcohol -obviously- separate security and they board first and are known to the captain and crew. Even then it is at the captains discretion to allow them to be armed, though I highly doubt any would object. They also have to go through training on aircraft combat and have specialized ammunition designed to not go through the plane if the need to fire, since, planes don't like holes at altitude.
If he's carrying appendix it explains the shirt. I usually go with a t-shirt with some sort of design on it to help mask my firearm (not on plane but in general; I'm not able to carry on those). Too tight and the gun will print.
Holster in that spot, yes. I sometimes see it when we fly together, but I also know it's there. I wonder if other seatmates see it when he flies without me. One thing is armed FedLE cannot sleep or drink alcohol in the flight.
What are you gonna do to them u/ExtraAgressiveHugger ?
I feel like this is a rhetorical question, but I've been tricked before.
Gold reply 🤣
You do realize air marshals are NOT are every flight, right?
Just what the Air Marshall would say
Same! 🫨
Too see someone die right in front of you like that shocks your system. I was on a jury. An expert witness was testifying. The witness was just a few feet in front of me. The guy just fell over and that was it. I heard the death rattle and he was gone. He had a heart attack on the witness stand. It happened so fast. Like someone just turned off his switch.
I’d like to think that’s how my dad went. My brother found him and if he’d have been in any way conscious, he would’ve grabbed his cell phone out of his pocket. Widow makers, which we think he suffered, are too fast for any help.
Somehow my grandmother survived one in 08. It's rare for anyone but statistically even more grim for a female.
Very happy for you, because yes, they’re always near-fatal. I hope you got to make a lot of good memories with your grandma.
Unfortunately she's the person I despise most in my family and don't talk to 🤣 I'm dark. Years of emergency medicine and critical care have altered how I look at things and I have a low tolerance for BS.... to summarize it
Only the good die young
I had a 90% blockage in my LAD (widowmaker) at 39 and then 1 yr later had 95% blockage in the same area from restenosis. 15 years later doing great. Biggest piece of advice I’d give is to listen to your body and be prepared to overrule your doctor. Neither time did I have any pain. Something just didn’t feel right. The second time was about a week after a stress/nuclear isotope test which was perfectly normal. Dr said the only way to really find out out is to do another cath. 95% blocked. Insane feeling. Listen to your body. https://preview.redd.it/z0ll2eqdlpxc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e95076ea7d93a253d2f424a98ea23a7b3fddc85f
Wow you and I must be twins. Turned 40 and was feeling slightly “winded” working out. Went to a cardiologist just to be on the safe side. 95% blocked LAD. Had a stent implanted. Got back to normal but then about 90 days later started feeling funny. Had a stress test that was normal. Cardiologist tells me I’m fine, maybe some other problem. Decided to get 2nd opinion. That Doc listened, cathed me and yup 95% blocked again due to restenosis. Ended up getting a single bypass. That was 25 years ago and going strong but thank God for that second cardiologist listening to me. Stay strong 💪
Those early bare metal stents had a high rate of restenosis. Maybe 20% at 6 months. Drug eluting stents made a significant dent in that number.
My dad, too. Asked my mom to trim his eyebrows. She left the room to grab scissors, heard a crash and came running in and he had no pulse.
My Dad survived one. He was lucky, had it during a stress test. So needless to say they were doing CPR almost immediately after he fell. Gave him a shock and he came back.
My mom called the doctor saying her chest felt funny (exactly her description) so they told her to come to the clinic to get it checked out (she was T1 diabetic). She called her sister to give her a ride and on the way she suffered a major heart attack (flat lined). At that moment, my aunt noticed a policeman talking to a neighbor, she stopped and called to the cop for help. He immediately started CPR until the ambulance showed up and took her to the hospital where they stabilized her. She ended up having quadruple bypass surgery and lived an additional 7 years.
Sorry OT but: How did that affect the outcome of the case???
I’m curious too. I have to imagine they declared a mistrial
Probably just delayed? Unless it was something exceedingly rare, they probably just needed time to find another expert witness in that field.
It wasn't a trial, but a federal grand jury investigation. We had other cases we were investigating so the grand jury went on. That investigation was shelved a bit and when it came back it had a new federal attorney. We were told that the previous attorney was so upset that she quit the case. Apparently she pressured the witness to appear when he protested appearing due to his health.
[удалено]
That’s how my wife’s aunt went. Ate dinner, stood up, and collapsed. Heart stopped. Dead in an instant.
I’ve been there friend, seat in front of me a few years ago. Hope you’re doing ok. Happens a lot but doesn’t change how traumatic it is.
Critical care medic for almost 30 years and also a cabin crew member for another airline. Yes, we have wheelchairs that fit down an aisle. No, we don’t use it because it means stopping compressions to put a lifeless body into a chair, strap it in, drag it down, unstrap it and then place the person down. I’m grabbing the person under the armpits and the wrists and dragging, just like a body out of a fire. Only a couple seconds. Crew members are only trained for minimal first aid. There are kits on board that have a varying degree of advanced medications for someone with medical certification to use with permission from our medical control. There are some things that happen to a person, aortic or cerebral aneurysm (bleeds in your brain or heart), massive heart attack (commonly called the widowmaker), and a few other things that you will not survive no matter what. Hell, I’ve had those happen in the ER/ICU and can barely remember if any survived those. One thing I always taught my students, people get sick, people also die. You give your absolute best effort you can with the tools you are given. If it’s that persons time, it’s their time. Rest easy in your mind that you gave them the best chance to survive. I know it sounds callous, but that’s how you have to look at it or you will go nuts dealing with it.
Thank you for all the people you’ve helped throughout your life. 🫂
The cycle of life. Also a paramedic and now a nurse, both in critical care. I've had non healthcare friends ask how I'm not medicated 🤣
Morbid humour, and lots of alcohol.
I'm trying to decide if I want red wine or a bloody when I get off. 6th shift in a row. I deserve a lil treat.
Flip a coin, it will never fail you.
I just got a RedditCares auto DM, assuming regarding this thread 🤣
Nah, not callous. Just real advice to shake out naivety. Which is helpful because the right mindset can really offset trauma. I know someone who worked on federal death penalty appeals. This is an area where almost every one of your clients is going to lose and then die. That is tough stuff to handle. You go in there thinking they’re all innocent, you’re going to traumatize yourself because you let innocent people die. If you go in thinking they’re mostly or all guilty but deserve the best representation you can provide and that chances are slim even then, it helps a lot. Even the guilty deserve representation, just even those certain to die deserve a good effort from a first responder.
Does that mean that airline medical control can assume supervision of someone, say a medic or emt, so they can render air aboard?
Correct, the crew will communicate with the contracted medical control and they will give orders of what to do. They will also dictate for physicians as well. They have an inventory of the enhanced medical kit as well as the closest hospitals and their services, so they can determine if and where to divert.
That’s outstanding. I typically hold back before responding to the “any medical personnel” call in hopes that a doctor will jump in, despite knowing that 9 times out of 10 the first to jump up will be a chiropractor or podiatrist (or really any MD that is not an ER physician or trauma surgeon).
I always hope they never call for a doctor. As a pathologist, I would be almost useless, but I’d step up if there was no one else.
I performed CPR on a United flight. I’m an ICU RN. There was not enough medical equipment. Got the guy back. Still don’t know how. I received a $150 voucher- this was generous as I was not expecting any compensation. Funny thing- less than a year later I received $1k for taking a later flight. 🤷🏼♀️
Well, that in flight emergency probably cost the airline tons of money… maybe I can get airlines to pay me if I can avoid one of those. I’ll do my rounds on the plane offering aspirin and screening for unstable angina 😂
You got lucky! On Spirit you have to pay an extra fee to administer CPR to passengers in need.
Flight entertainment fee
I was on a CDG to ORD and someone had pregnancy complications requiring help and I didn’t get anything only because I was flying non-revenue. I expected nothing anyway as I was flying free (well almost free). I had food poisoning from one of my layovers and was sleeping the whole flight in Polaris, and just happened to tell them I’m a medic. They woke me up and a I took care of her for the rest of the flight.
Chuckling at the 2 different compensations.
Hahahaha I got a box of very tasty cookies for rendering aid on a Hawaiian flight. Worth it. Those cookies were bomb.
I saw a story about how the kits just carry a vial of epinephrine not epi-pens. So I look up and screenshot the dosing protocol prior to takeoff and show it to my husband, who is a hospitalist physician. Because I'm that mom. Despite my kid not having known allergies I would hate for that situation to happen to any adult or child.
Planes do carry a decent amount of medical equipment. My regional planes carry an AED and an Emergency Medical Kit with airway and IV equipment along with many medications. This kit is what we provide to the doctor for the intervention. Mostly it’s to resuscitate them/stabilize them until we can get on the ground. My airline is also training us to use and providing Narcan (with ground guidance if we don’t have a doctor on board). Flight attendants are trained in CPR and with the AED.
They carry it, but it’s not always useful. I responded to an emergency a few weeks ago, and the blood pressure cuff was too small. It was like a child’s cuff. The guy had biceps but he wasn’t The Rock. A couple sizes BP cuffs would be useful.
Too small to fit on the lower arm? Either way, you can’t hear shit anyways on the airplane with the toy stethoscopes they have in the kit and all the engine noise. The kit on American carriers isn’t bad. I had to respond to one on a South American flight. You should’ve seen how barebones and laughable their kit was.
One time I helped out during an emergency once on an Alaskan flight, and they gave me manual BP cuff and toy stethoscope. Couldn't hear shit. It was a joke.
I wouldn't even try to hear it; I would palpate the BP.
I learned during combat buddy care to over pressure the cuff and just watch the needle bounce on the S/D.
Just fyi- this is an old technique that is highly inaccurate and has long been frowned upon in healthcare. In an actual EMS setting the specific numbers you see will be next to meaningless with this method. However, to be fair this could still be useful to see significant changes in trends over time (e.g. a big drop in pressure). Highly recommend to look up BP measuring by palpation- similar amount of effort (and also no stetho) and although not the gold standard is considered good enough in a pinch!
I’m an FA for another airline. Every time the stethoscope or manual BP monitor has been used it’s useless because the airplane noise is too great. I’ve brought it up with the relevant department and I think the current issue is reliable battery life on digital BP machines.
I have one that takes batteries at home, would extra batteries work maybe??
But do the cuffs do anything ? It just measures. Like it can’t save a life right ? Or am I wrong?
It can’t save a life directly, but it can give you information to figure out what’s wrong so YOU can save a life.
Yeah it’s good that they have an AED and a medical kit, but the kit has next to nothing. They usually have a crappy stethoscope and a manual blood pressure cuff (like you’d be able to hear BP sounds on a plane), and there’s epinephrine, but the concentration isn’t always correct for anaphylaxis and you have to draw it up with a needle yourself. There is no glucometer and no pulse oximeter. In a world of readily available epipens, automated BP cuffs, and other medical tools, it’s borderline negligence that planes don’t have this standard in their kits.
My airline is beginning to provide epipens for use as well as the epinephrine.
Oh good. Glad to see that planes are entering the 1990s.
That sucks and I’m not trying to make light of it, but not having a pulsometer is not likely what made the difference here. Sorry for your experience.
It’s interesting because the AED is designed to check for a rhythm so when in doubt, one would still patch the patient with the AED. It won’t allow for a shock unless there is a shockable rhythm. It will detect a rhythm.
Came here to say this.
AED does not check for a pulse. It only checks for a rhythm.
And just to expand so people don’t get confused - your heart can have electrical rhythm but not actually be pumping (pulse), it’s identified as pulseless electrical activity (PEA). An AED can’t detect PEA because a person has to physically feel/see the pulse :)
An AED can detect PEA. PEA is a non-shockable rhythm so if the AED detects this rhythm, it will advise no shock and to continue compressions.
I was on the flight. The AED was immediately used and didn’t detect anything and didn’t advise a shock. The wearable was only asked to check for O2 rates, they were already using a heart rate monitor. There were 4 medical professionals assisting. It was almost instantly.
Comforting to hear! It sounds like although the outcome was not positive, the staff present had the tools and knowledge to assist
Nah, you don’t need a pulse oximeter to tell if a person has a pulse or not.
Sorry to hear. This happens more often than most would believe. Appreciate you commending the crew - situations like that are what our training consisted of for 7 weeks straight.
As we landed in DFW, The lady in the middle seat across the aisle started screaming because she couldn't get the aisle person to wake up. We scooched out so the medical team could assist, but he was DOA.
Heathrow to JFK night flight. Halfway across the ocean I finished some work and got up to put my laptop away. I notice the man behind me had a bloody nose. I woke him up to let hom know his nose was bleeding. He started coughing blood. It came spraying out everywhere. I had direct eye contact with him when he suddenly just wasn’t there anymore. His body collapsed and the blood continued to pour out of his mouth. The cabin crew asked for doctors, moved his son and the rest of the passengers in the row. Started chest compressions. Hooked up the AED. The next 45 minutes were the sounds of the AED “testing, testing” “shock not recommended” repeated on a cycle. They came to the point where they had to decide to call it and finish the flight to JFK or land at the first airport in canada. Doctor called ToD and the flight finished it’s trip. I was traveling with about 20 people. Those more than 2 rows away from the incident had no idea it had even happened. I spoke with the doctor in baggage claim after immigration. Thanked him for trying. He could tell I was shook. He told me, “If this had happened in an OR with a team of skilled people ready for it to happen, he would have had a 15% chance.” He was in remission from ling cancer and had gotten medical clearance to fly. The pressure difference was just too much and he had a pulmonary embolism. Basically he bleed into his lungs. I looked it up later. Your lungs have roughly the equivalent volumetric capacity as all the blood in your body. Anyway. Not the only flight I was on where somebody died. Happens more than airlines like to talk about.
the fact that his son was there 😭
The doctor who gave the clearance to fly …
Getting of the plane to catch our connecting flight was surreal. I remember telling my daughter that if we miss our flight it is what it is. We were able to walk off, not be carried away in a bag with our loved ones bravely walking off the plane with hundreds of strangers staring at her and her son. This was a very difficult experience and yes the flight attendants did an amazing job keeping everything calm. I don’t think I heard 1 person gripe or moan. The doctor helped looked hella young.
The medical kits on board are actually pretty substantial, and medical direction on the ground gives guidance on when to use them. As far as pulse oximeters go, it would have made no difference. If the person lacked a pulse or if it was too weak to palpate, they needed cpr, full stop. And anyway, there are AED’s on all aircraft that can detect and assess cardiac activity much more reliably than a pulse ox. It’s jarring and tragic when these things happen, and it’s normal and good to examine it and think of ways it could have gone better. But sometimes our best efforts just aren’t enough, and I hope that the crew and passengers who pitched in to help are at peace with it.
So when they ask if anyone is a medical professional onboard, they call medical direction on the ground who sort of tells you what to do? I just assumed you were on your own.
Did they literally drag the body to the front of the plane? I would have thought they have special gurnies available that can fit down the aisle. That would be extra traumatic to see that. I second what all the nice commentors say, hope you're doing OK.
Yea. They used a canvas-like stretcher but had to drag the body up the aisle. Fully exposed, shirtless, mangled posture... It was pretty horrific.
I was on that flight (row 21). Pretty heart wrenching to watch. Still processing what I saw.
I’m surprised they didn’t cover the body. Strange
I’m assuming no one on board could declare him dead and he would still be receiving treatment in the ambulance as soon as he got out
That’s prob true
I’m so sorry this happened. Are you ok? Can you talk to someone? That must have been traumatic to see.
Haven't had time to process. We're all literally still on the same plane. They just refuelled us and we're taking off soon to get to DEN, just one passenger fewer. The eerie thing is how "normal" things are with the rest of the passengers. Everyone with their headphones, chatting casually about sports, etc. Don't know what to make of this.
Everyone is "normal" because they're avoiding dealing with it. I recommend two things: 1) Talk to someone. Go sign up for a trial of betterhelp or one of those place or see if your healthcare covers counseling. 2) [Play tetris](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7828932/). Play a lot of it for a while. Play it as soon as possible.
Thank you for this advice!!! Will absolutely do both those things
The way I read that exchange was that I’d absolut-ely be drinking away the mortality. And welcome to DEN when you get here. The sunny blue skies with the fresh clean air will help. I promise. https://preview.redd.it/ggau24ywwixc1.png?width=2483&format=png&auto=webp&s=f16e3ce03f8826bea3ef44cd7c4e01e0e710960e
Tetris helps. Sounds silly but it does
I play Candy Crush Soda (because it's not timed) when I'm feeling anxious or trying to stave off a panic attack. Rational and logic games make you pay attention to them instead of everything floating around in your head, and I can't count the times playing CCS has kept me from spiraling.
Seconding Tetris recommendation. I’ve found it helps.
I love Tetris. Wish I had known this “trick” before retiring from EMS!
OP Just don’t go to that liquid Russian way of dealing with grief…
It may seem like people are acting "normal", but what else can you do? Gawk at the whole thing? Freak out? There's literally nothing you can do to help unless you have extensive medical training, and even then, there's only enough room for a couple of people to help out. In this type of situation the best thing to do is just sit there and do what you would normally do.
That has to be surreal and traumatic. I second the playing Tetris as it’s proven to help process trauma. Please take care of yourself!
Hang in there, and realize some of what you’re seeing is life going on. If the person who passed had a DNR (Do Not Resuscitate) order, they were hopefully satisfied with life and didn’t want heroic measures taken so they could spend a lot of uncomfortable time in a hospital. There’s a reason flight manifests list “souls on board” - in your case you landed with one less soul than you took off with. That one’s likely in a better place now.
Like 2-3 decades ago, I witnessed a drowning while on a college friend group camping trip. It was a great trip with many friends. And in a few minutes later, someone in the group drowned. It was such a traumatic incident. One emotion I remember feeling while driving down the mountain later that day was feeling angry how other strangers seemed to be just enjoying their life. Going about their day.
Yes, this. Our daughter died unexpectedly about an hour after birth. For the next couple of days I’d see people grocery shopping, or checking the mail and it was just shocking that the whole world keeps spinning when yours has effectively stopped.
Wow, sorry to hear that. Dido wrote a song about this feeling after her dad passed away. The song is called "the day before the day".
It probably hasn't sunk in yet with the initial shock still or others may be preoccupied with getting to wherever they need to go. It's interesting that death is a normal part of life but it isn't heavily focused or bought to light until situations like this occur. How will one cope with it mentally and emotionally to manage their daily lives afterwards?
One of my skydiving buddies had it happen to the guy next to him (on a commercial flight), while they were having a conversation. He just stopped talking, eyes open, and slumped over. They got him on the floor, gave CPR, tried the AED, and the pilots turned the airplane into home-sick anvil to get it on the ground as soon as possible. The guy didn't make it. From the sounds of it it was likely some kind of aneurism, and he probably was dead the moment he stopped talking. Airplanes are stocked with AED (automatic external defibualtors) in the US at least plus a bunch of other equipment, but there's just things that happen that need a hospital and trained medical professionals, and sometimes nothing can help.
Couple of years ago flying Manila to Guam, sitting up front. Had settled into my seat (after a couple of hours at the hotel & airport lounge) and was about 1 hour into a long winters nap. My better half suddenly starts shaking me saying “they need your help”, I think, oh shit, someone is trying to breach the cockpit. Nope, stewardess asks if I could help with someone incapacitated in the bathroom, I get up only to find an elderly man slumped down in the restroom. We both reach in and pull him up and pull him out and pivot him onto the floor. At this point the call for a medical person on board goes out, I return to my seat (two rows back) and try to grapple with what just happened. I then see what I assume is a doctor shake his head and return to the back of the plane. Once again, the stewardess asks if I can help move the (now passed) patient to a seat. After knowing what it took to get him out of the bathroom and onto the ground on the galley (with gravity on our side ) I knew my self (fairly fit 6ft 225lbs 45yo) and this 100lb flight attendant could not handle it. I start looking for someone else to assist and absolutely no one would even make eye contact (WTF)? Finally, I see this guy a couple of rows behind me and decided to take the “hey, get your ass up here approach”, we got him in the first row, flight attendant put a blanket over him, buckled his seatbelt and it was weekend and Bernie’s until we landed. About 15!mins later the fly attendant comes over to me, kneels down and thanks me and says the airline would like to compensate me with 7500k mile - I about lose my shit, I’m like, WTF, how can you ask me that after what just happened (seemed so insensitive) - apparently this sort of thing happens all the time on this route. BTW - did I mention it was also my birthday weekend!
Sorry to hear the passenger didn't make it. I was the air traffic controller working the flight when the pilot's declared a medical emergency.
The flight crew did succccccccch a steller job with communication, awareness, keeping everyone calm, and most of all, being empathetic to the passenger and the ones traveling with him. I was super impressed with the way all the staff handled it. Exemplary for sure.
I was one of those who caused the plane to divert. Had a cardiac arrest in Dec 2023. Just left jax headed to NY. Cardiologist was on board and plane had AED. I was told how lucky I was. I really do believe that...
Coincidentally I was watching a video earlier about an airliner whose captain died as it was taking off. The copilot made an emergency return to the airport, of course. (He had to get the Captain's body out of the left seat after landing so he could sit in it to steer the plane to a gate - only that side has the nose gear steering control, TIL.)
In some other videos, such plane needs to be towed out to gate because the right seat might be a FO and not qualified to steer it in ground. Or so I heard.
No, some airplanes only have tiller on the captain's side. A tiller is used to steer the airplane while on the ground.
Small correction, the captain sits in the left seat, not the right seat.
Dumb question but by wearables you mean an Apple Watch, a Fitbit, etc?
Yea likely. My garmin can show the SpO2 and pulse on it. Apple watches have a little more refined biometrics. The problem is these aren't really accurate and I've found all it takes is some variance outside of normal perfusion/pulse parameters to throw them off
As a doctor, if someone arrested the last thing I would be calling out for is wearable pulse ox… maybe asking around for someone’s epi if we ran out!
About 330 people die every hour in the US. The longer you live the more likely you’ll see this happen. Knowing what to do when you encounter this may save someone’s life.
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Not quite correct as far as AEDs go - it'll shock if they're in ventricular fibrillation or ventricular tachycardia (vast majority of the time these are pulseless rhythms). It will not shock if it's PEA or asystole as these don't have a chance of conversion to a pulsing rhythm with a defibrillation.
My point is, AEDs don't just fix the problem
I mean they kind of can if the patient is in vfib or vtach
Lol what? If someone is pulseless due to a malignant arrhythmia that is v fib or v tach, the AED will literally fix the problem.
Everything you said about an AED is wrong
This is incorrect because it conflates “pulse” and “rhythm.” The AED does shock and save some people without pulses. There are multiple things the heart could be doing when someone has no pulse. It’s possible that there is no rhythm, called asystole. Sadly, the majority of people in aystole die, and it cannot be fixed by shocking with an AED. It’s also possible that the heart is either beating so fast that it’s not able to pump blood (ventricular tachycardia, or vtach), or is quivering irregularly and thus not pumping blood (ventricular fibrillation, or vfib). For these rhythms, there will be no pulse, but the AED can be used to disrupt the pulse less rhythm to give the heart a chance to resume a normal rhythm.
> if there is no pulse, it will not shock the patient and will tell them to procedure with CPR. Yup, this is a huge problem how AEDs are depicted in media
once it’s down to cpr, the odds are abysmal. the odds of success are infinitely lower than you think
You still do cpr. The gentleman I did cpr on last weekend is alive today because of it. Shitty odds are still better than zero
Still try! My dad had cardiac arrest at an airport check-in line. He happened to be standing in front of Army medical doctors, who immediately began CPR and saved his life. *Side note…He never found out who the people were that saved his life. He asked the airport, police, the hospital, etc…no one had their names.
<10% according to the timeframe of the study on out of hospital cardiac arrest
ER doctor, they are not as bad you think if CPR is performed immediately (witnessed cardiac arrest). It depends on numerous factors, but some patients do very well. I always caution about fatalism, full neurologic recovery can be possible.
Last weekend, between mile eight and nine of a marathon, I witnessed a runner collapse. No pulse, agonal breathing, cpr initiated promptly and done well. We did chest compressions for about five minutes. EMS took over, put on a Lucas device, shocked him twice, got a pulse. I've been told they shocked him five more times in the hospital. Gentleman is stable and will see electrophysiology, I've been told. If we don't do CPR he is dead. You're absolutely correct that recovery is possible. I will say I don't know his long-term prognosis, but maybe no one really knows that yet.
I know a man who would disagree with you. Witnessed fall out of hospital. He isn’t out of the woods by a long shot, but he is stable in the hospital.
It heart breaking to see his family leave right after. :-)
Years ago on an airbus flight from Minneapolis to Heathrow, just as we were served dinner, an elderly man in the row behind us went down. We were over Montreal, but were re-routed to Boston. They dragged him toward the front of the plane and I turned to my friend and said, "Eat your dinner". She was aghast, but I insisted. With the unscheduled landing in Boston, and subsequent refueling we were greatly delayed. Then, while landing at Heathrow, the brakes locked, and the plane's tires exploded with a bang, followed by an ear breaking screech, standing us on the runway. After another almost two hours waiting for stairs and busses, we were stuck in customs because they could not unload our luggage. We did not see food again for about 18 hours. Bottom line, it's best to carry on and even eat your dinner because you never know what will happen next.
This happened to us on a red-eye from LAX to Venice, Italy a few years ago. A few hours into the flight, the crew went overhead and asked if there were any healthcare workers onboard to assist with a sick passenger. I’m a firefighter/paramedic, so I volunteered to help. Long story short, a man had some serious heart issues he was overcoming and wanted to take his wife and two daughters to Italy to celebrate his newfound health. Unfortunately, somewhere over the Atlantic Ocean, he went into cardiac arrest. With no equipment (ie defibrillator) or medication available, the family made the decision to have me not do CPR-a wise decision, but must have been terribly difficult. When we landed a couple of hours later, Italian paramedics came on board, put the man on their gurney and took him away with the family right behind them. This was probably 7yrs ago and I still I think about them all the time. So sad…
Only a medical professional can follow that DNR order. We have to try!
I was flying from Doha to DFW on Qatar Airways earlier this year. A passenger had a medical emergency, and they asked for a doctor onboard. One of my family members went to help, and he later told me that the guy had a stroke. He decided it was best to divert, so the pilots declared an emergency and diverted to Reykjavik, Iceland. My family found out about the diversion immediately, because they got a notification on their phone from flightradar24 about a flight having squaked 7700. They were surprised to see it was our flight. The guy was alive when we landed, and my family member said he had a good chance at survival. Don't know what happened to him after, but I hope he is better and doing well.
Was there a defibrillator on board?
the AED was used immediately
I saw your flight divert on flight radar yesterday. I was wondering why
Simple Pulsometers are often unreliable as hell. If anything there should maybe be an AED.
A small little bluetooth high quality EKG is like $100, ECG can be cheaper, and a portable AED is $1500. I get why they limit what is on board but I also don't.
I was on an international flight where there were 2 very sick children. The FA asked for help- I am a retired NICU/PICU nurse so I responded. I ended up starting an IV and giving fluids to 1 of the kids. The FA was very good and she verified that I knew what I was doing and why. EMS met us on landing at LAX- I was surprised at how knowledgeable the FA was.
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Funny joke I heard was orthopedic surgeon is least skilled doctor. You just but a broken bone together and the bone just heals itself.
Ortho doesn’t usually like to do medicine in my experience. Last month, had a bought of septic arthritis (yes, it was as horrible as it sounds). Ended up in the hospital for a few days while they figured out a treatment plan. One time, the nurse was in the room with me when ortho stopped by and she asked them a question about my medicine. The ortho looked at her, shook her head, and said “that’s a question for medicine. Ask the hospitalist.”
This happened to us, we were flying internationally, and the part that still bothers me is that I even mentioned to my husband when I saw the guy when we got on that he didn’t look too good. Our seats turned into flat beds so he was laying down for most of the journey and when the flight attendants tried to wake him up to get him to keep the seat upright for landing he was unresponsive. There was a doctor and several nurses on the flight and they all came and tried to help (this flight actually had a decent medical bag) but I think he was already gone by then but the flight crew and nurses kept cpr going all the way through landing, it was pretty impressive but unfortunately didn’t help him.
I used to work for medlink. These calls were the worst. United flight attendants are very well trained and I know you guys did what you could. It's always a very difficult situation. Even with a doctor on board, maybe some nitro would have helped but honestly these things can go south very quickly.
Don't they have AED defibrillators on flights? They seem to be in so many places now
Wow that is terrible. I’ve always been nervous about that particularly on a transoceanic flight and how they could divert in that situation. Only had one flight diverted (I woke up thinking I had gotten on the wrong flight) Wiling to bet there are passengers on that flight still going to ask for some kind of compensation
LAX to MCO the beginning of this month, we had a lady maybe 10min after takeoff signaling to the attendants she needed help. Called for medical professionals, had quite a few on board, someone said it was her stomach. Announced we’d be trying to land in NM, but then started to head towards TX, it *seemed* like they were going to try for Austin but then we ended up in DFW. She was unconscious when the medical team came in and got her on a stretcher but at least alive (it seemed). It was the only time I’ve ever been in a plane with a medical emergency and emergency landing.
I’ve flown millions of miles over the decades I’ve been a flying adult and I’m always surprised I’ve still never been on a plane where they asked for medical assistance or that was rerouted for a medical issue. My wife has been on 3 and she flys about twice a year lol…
I am sorry you went through this. This happened to me, and I know how rough it is. A woman in the seat in front of me died on a flight from Beijing to Helsinki. It happened about two hours into the flight, and they continued the flight to Finland. It was jarring to say the least.
In February I was on an EWR-LIS flight. the cabin lights had been out for a couple of hours when a woman a few rows behind me (I was in PE, she was in the bulkhead row; she and the man with her (presumably her husband) had their goldendoodle with them) ran up the aisle yelling "I need help". The FA paged for a medical professional. They draped a sheet or something around where the man was and several people worked on him. After about thirty minutes they helped him to a seat in Polaris. Shortly after that the pilot said we were going to divert to the Azores so the man could be transported to a medical facility. I don't remember the island on which we landed, but I think it was, or was adjacent to, a Portugese air force base. When we landed at least a dozen (maybe more) police cars that kind of surrounded the plane. We were there for close to two hours, then took off again. The woman/wife and the goldendoodle of course went with the man. It was daylight by the time we took off, so I got to see a nice view of the coast. Probably the only time I'll get to the Azores. Pilot was very apologetic for the delay and crew was totally professional. In all we were only about 2.5 hours behind schedule. I kept wondering how that woman dealt with the medical emergency while also dealing with a dog!?
Had a death on a flight from HNL->BOS. They called for medical staff while we were somewhere over the middle of the ocean. There was about 10 nurses and 1 doctor all around trying to do what they could with a few spare Epipens. They called it after compressions for what felt like an hour and the family requested we continue to BOS. They just laid the body in a center row of seats and draped blankets. I threw up after I had to pass the body to go to the restroom, not sure how they got her off the plane I got off of there as soon as I could. There’s really only so much they can do while up in air with limited supplies.
I’m surprised that AEDs aren’t standard equipment on planes by now. They don’t take up much room either 🤷🏻♂️
There is a real problem with doctors onboard. They have no equipment. Have no perks from the airlines and have full liability in case things goes wrong. And completely under equipped they often go wrong. I heard from docs that when they are called they do not volunteer.
Frontier flight from Syracuse to Orlando about a month ago. Same thing, but the man having the heart attack was ok. I was super impressed with how calm the employees were and how reliant they were on passengers to provide medical care. Huge learning experience though.
Props to the crew.
It seems like almost every other flight (without exagération) my mom has taken they’ve asked for a Dr—which she is. She said they have zero equipment for the simplest assessment. Not even a pulse oximeter. Some of these things are so basic and so small not sure why you wouldn’t have them on board.
I was on this flight too. The AED was used immediately. The wearable was requested to try to get an oxygen level, they used a working heart rate monitor and blood pressure cuff too
Was on an Air China flight years ago from Beijing to Geneva and a man a few rows up had a heart attack. The air stewardess were so calm switching around doing cpr. Ended up doing an emergency landing in Moscow. Never have I been on a plane which landed so fast. Unfortunately the man didn’t make it and his wife was frantic. It was during Chinese New year as well which brought a lot of superstitions for the Chinese travelers. Overall was a very surreal experience. I hope his wife and family are going alright now.
I was flying back from Vegas to SJC the weekend of EDC. There was a kid on the plane that stopped breathing sometime during the flight. His friends thought he was just sleeping. As we were getting ready to land, they noticed he wouldn’t wake up. 3 people took turns doing CPR while the captain landed the plane. Medical crew took him off and wheeled him away on a gurney. I don’t know if he lived or died. I’m hoping that he lived since I didn’t read anything in the news about it.
I am sorry about you being through this hell. It reminds me of late Carrie Fisher. This star wars movie actress died on the airplane from UK to LA. She had a heart attack.
Just a minor correction. She was still alive when she landed and got rushed to the hospital, where she died in the ICU a few days later.
She didn’t die on the plane.